DISASTER Fukushima Reactor Disaster: MAIN THREAD - Five Year Anniversary

Blast heard 30 miles away per local radio interview on KFI 640, Los Angeles...

When the quake first happened, and the resulting tsunami, wasn't it reported that there were problems with reactors 1, 2 and 4?

Now 3 explodes?

And, 3 is apparently a different kind of reactor that was actually functioning and providing power per earlier reports here. I'll find a link...

Mike

That will teach me to take a nap!

I now dub this plant "Fukkendiditagain".

And no, I don't think it is funny. The whole situation is out of control.

IAEA update 14 March 2011 01:30 CET

Based on information provided by Japanese authorities, the IAEA can confirm the following information about the status of Units 1, 2 and 3 at Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

Unit 1 is being powered by mobile power generators on site, and work continues to restore power to the plant. There is currently no power via off-site power supply or backup diesel generators being provided to the plant. Seawater and boron are being injected into the reactor vessel to cool the reactor. Due to the explosion on 12 March, the containment building has been lost.

Unit 2 is being powered by mobile power generators on site, and work continues to restore power to the plant. There is currently neither off-site power supply nor backup diesel generators providing power to the plant. The reactor core is being cooled through reactor core isolation cooling, a procedure used to remove heat from the core. The current reactor water level is lower than normal but remains steady. The containment building is intact at Unit 2.

Unit 3 does not have off-site power supply nor backup diesel generators providing power to the plant. As the high pressure injection system and other attempts to cool the reactor core have failed, injection of water and boron into the reactor vessel has commenced. Water levels inside the reactor vessel increased steadily for a certain amount of time but readings indicating the water level inside the pressure vessel are no longer showing an increase. The reason behind this is unknown at this point in time. To relieve pressure, venting of the containment started on 13 March at 9:20AM local Japan time. Planning is underway to reduce the concentration of hydrogen inside the containment building. The containment building is intact at Unit 3.

The IAEA is seeking information about the status of spent fuel at the Daiichi plant.
http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/tsunamiupdate01.html

Understand that the containment BUILDING has a thin skinned top 30%, just pannels which close up the area where the crane trolley is. the Hydrogen explosion blows the top off the building, giving the view of falling debris. Note please that we have YET to see ANY explosion which would have lifted debris up to 30 to 60 thousand feet which is needed to get it to the West Coast.

CNN just showed a enhanced picture of the after effects of the second explosion. It appears the metal facade is still intact, but it appears all the cement was blown from the building and not just the top like last time. Also Army is reporting a grim discovery that they describe as 2000 bodies that were just located in a relative small are. Not much details yet.

This just seems to get worse every time i sign on for an update.

mt4design said:

Blast heard 30 miles away per local radio interview on KFI 640, Los Angeles...

When the quake first happened, and the resulting tsunami, wasn't it reported that there were problems with reactors 1, 2 and 4?

Now 3 explodes?

And, 3 is apparently a different kind of reactor that was actually functioning and providing power per earlier reports here. I'll find a link...

Mike

Click to expand...

I posted this status update dated Mar.12 from TEPCO on the backup board the other night. I think that there's an earlier one posted somewhere.

Press release from Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO).

From: http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11031209-e.html

"Press Release (Mar 12,2011)
Plant Status of Fukushima Daini Nuclear Power Station (as of 5AM March 12th )


Unit 1 (shut down at 2:48PM on March 11th)
- Reactor is shut down and reactor water level is stable.
- Offsite power is available.
- Control rods are fully inserted (reactor is in subcritical status)
- Status of main steam isolation valve: closed
- Injection of water into the reactor had been done by the Reactor Core
Isolation Cooling System, but at 3:48AM, injection by Make-up Water
Condensate System begun.
- At 6:08PM, we announced the increase in reactor containment vessel pressure,
assumed to be due to leakage of reactor coolant. However, we do not believe
there is leakage of reactor coolant in the containment vessel at this moment.

Unit 2 (shut down at 2:48PM on March 11th)
- Reactor is shut down and reactor water level is stable.
- Offsite power is available.
- Control rods are fully inserted (reactor is in subcritical status)
- Status of main steam isolation valve: closed
- Injection of water into the reactor had been done by the Reactor Core
Isolation Cooling System, but at 4:50AM, injection by Make-up Water
Condensate System begun.
- We do not believe there is leakage of reactor coolant in the containment
vessel.

Unit 3 (shut down at 2:48PM on March 11th)
- Reactor is shut down and reactor water level is stable.
- Offsite power is available.
- Control rods are fully inserted (reactor is in subcritical status)
- Status of main steam isolation valve: closed
- Reactor Core Isolation Cooling System is turned off. Currently, injection
of water into the reactor is done by Make-up Water Condensate System.
- We do not believe there is leakage of reactor coolant in the containment
vessel.

Unit 4 (shut down at 2:48PM on March 11th)
- Reactor is shut down and reactor water level is stable.
- Offsite power is available.
- Control rods are fully inserted (reactor is in subcritical status)
- Status of main steam isolation valve: closed
- Reactor Core Isolation Cooling System is turned off. Currently, injection
of water into the reactor is done by Make-up Water Condensate System.
- We do not believe there is leakage of reactor coolant in the containment
vessel.

Indication from monitoring posts installed at the site boundary did not show
any difference from ordinary level.
No radiation impact to the external environment has been confirmed. We will
continue to monitor in detail the possibility of radioactive material being
discharged from exhaust stack or discharge canal.
There is no missing person within the power station.
We are presently checking on the site situation of each plant while keeping
the situation of aftershock and Tsunami in mind.
A seriously injured worker is still trapped in the crane operating console
of the exhaust stack and his breathing and pulse cannot be confirmed.
A worker was lightly injured spraining his left ankle and cutting both knees
when he fell while walking at the site. The worker is conscious."

Click to expand...

The Reagan has apparently sailed through a radioactive cloud - deck crew got a month's dose in an hour. Helos operating 60 miles from the plant are coming back with contamination:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/14/world/asia/14plume.html?_r=4

Hansa44 said:

I saw that too. Those were big parts of something flying all over the place.

Can anybody in the know about these things, say what those parts might be?

Click to expand...

From Jeffrey Thomason's post 48 http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/show...-MELTDOWN-UNDER-WAY-179&p=4016120#post4016120

"BreakingNews

1. Japanese spokesman says no marked change in radiation level after reactor blast; control room remains intact - Kyodo http://bit.ly/f3aJP6 less than 5 seconds ago via breakingnews.com "

truthseeker said:

CNN just showed a enhanced picture of the after effects of the second explosion. It appears the metal facade is still intact, but it appears all the cement was blown from the building and not just the top like last time. Also Army is reporting a grim discovery that they describe as 2000 bodies that were just located in a relative small are. Not much details yet.

This just seems to get worse every time i sign on for an update.

Click to expand...

Important to note that the 2000 bodies are in no way related to Fukushima.

Didn't see this posted earlier.

BreakingNews: U.S. helicopters detect radiation 60 miles from damaged Japanese plant, suggesting wider contamination


- nytimes http://nyti.ms/fp9b7L Today, March 13, 2011, 3 hours ago

Archetype said:

The Reagan has apparently sailed through a radioactive cloud - deck crew got a month's dose in an hour. Helos operating 60 miles from the plant are coming back with contamination:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/14/world/asia/14plume.html?_r=4

Click to expand...

Without knowing what a "month's dose" that article doesn't mean much.

http://www.cpf.navy.mil/media/news/articles/2011/mar/mar13_C7F_reposition.shtml

A report from US PAC fleet about what the Reagan ran into when she went through the cloud about a hundred miles northeast of the plant. 17 air crew from their choppers received low doses (not mentioned how much) and were successfully decontaminated with soap and water. Reagans task force to be repositioned away from the cloud. (gee ya think?)

Here's the article. It has some potentially useful information.


From: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/14/world/asia/14plume.html?_r=2

"Military Crew Said to Be Exposed to Radiation, but Officials Call Risk in U.S. Slight

By WILLIAM J. BROAD
Published: March 13, 2011

The Pentagon was expected to announce that the aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan, which is sailing in the Pacific, passed through a radioactive cloud from stricken nuclear reactors in Japan, causing crew members on deck to receive a month’s worth of radiation in about an hour, government officials said Sunday.

The officials added that American helicopters flying missions about 60 miles north of the damaged reactors became coated with particulate radiation that had to be washed off.

There was no indication that any of the military personnel had experienced ill effects from the exposure. (Everyone is exposed to a small amount of natural background radiation.)

But the episodes showed that the prevailing winds were picking up radioactive material from crippled reactors in northeastern Japan. Ever since an earthquake struck Japan on Friday, the authorities worldwide have been laying plans to map where radioactive plumes might blow and determine what, if any, danger they could pose to people.

Blogs were churning with alarm. But officials insisted that unless the quake-damaged nuclear plants deteriorated into full meltdown, any radiation that reached the United States would be too weak to do any harm.

Washington had “hypothetical plots” for worst-case plume dispersal within hours of the start of the crisis, a senior official said Sunday. The aim, the official added, was “more to help Japan” than the United States, since few experts foresaw high levels of radiation reaching the West Coast.

For now, the prevailing winds over Japan were blowing eastward across the Pacific. If they continue to do so, international stations for radioactive tracking at Wake or Midway Islands might detect radiation later this week, said Annika Thunborg, a spokeswoman for an arm of the United Nations in Vienna that monitors the planet for spikes in radioactivity.

“At this point, we have not picked up anything” in detectors midway between Japan and Hawaii, Ms. Thunborg said in an interview on Sunday. “We’re talking a couple of days — nothing before Tuesday — in terms of picking something up.”

Agencies involved in the tracking efforts include the World Meteorological Organization, the International Atomic Energy Agency and the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty Organization, which runs a global network of more than 60 stations that sniff the air for radiation spikes.

In the United States, the Departments of Defense and Energy maintain large facilities and cadres of specialists for tracking airborne releases of radiation, both civilian and military.

On Sunday, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission said it expected no “harmful levels of radioactivity” to move on the winds to Hawaii, Alaska or the West Coast from the reactors in Japan, “given the thousands of miles between the two countries.”

In interviews, some private nuclear experts called a windborne threat unlikely. Others urged caution.

“We’re all worrying about it,” said Robert Alvarez, a nuclear expert who, from 1993 to 1999, was a policy adviser to the secretary of energy, who runs the nation’s nuclear complex.

“It’s going to be very important,” he added, “for the Japanese and U.S. authorities to inform the public about the nature of the plumes and any need for precautionary measures.”

The plume issue has arisen before. In 1986, radiation spewing from the Chernobyl disaster in Ukraine was spread around the globe on winds and reached the West Coast in 10 days. It was judged more of a curiosity than a threat.

Since then, scientists have refined their abilities to monitor such atmospheric releases. The advances are rooted in the development of new networks of radiation detectors, flotillas of imaging satellites and the advent of supercomputers that can model the subtle complexities of the wind to draw up advanced forecasts.

With the Japanese crisis, popular apprehension has also soared.

“Concern has been raised about a massive radioactive cloud escaping and sweeping over the West Coast,” said a recent blog, recommending whole grains and health foods for fighting radiation poisoning.

On another blog, someone asked, “Should I take iodine now?” That referred to pills that can prevent poisoning from the atmospheric release of iodine-131, a radioactive byproduct of nuclear plants that the Japanese authorities have identified as escaping into the atmosphere.

While federal officials expected little danger in the United States from Japanese plumes, they were taking no chances. On Sunday, Energy Department officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said the agency was working on three fronts.

One main player is the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California. Officials said they had activated its National Atmospheric Release Advisory Center, which draws on meteorologists, nuclear scientists and computer scientists to forecast plume dispersal.

Separately, energy officials said the agency was readying plans to deploy two-person monitoring and sampling teams, if necessary. The teams would travel to consulates, military installations and Navy ships to sample the air in a coordinated effort to improve plume tracking.

Finally, the department was preparing what it calls its Aerial Measuring System. Its detectors and analytical equipment can be mounted on a variety of aircraft. Officials said the equipment and monitoring team are staged out of the department’s Remote Sensing Laboratory at Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada, and are on two-hour call.

“We’re on top of this,” a department official said. "

"the maximum potential radiation dose received by any ship’s force personnel aboard the ship when it passed through the area was less than the radiation exposure received from about one month of exposure to natural background radiation from sources such as rocks, soil, and the sun. "

Still, the fact remains that this is turning out not to be just a problem localized to the plant environs. The USN is repositioning; it might be slight contaimination, but they understandably don't want to operate in it....

Before and after reactor #3

0351: Full quotes from Yukio Edano on the explosion:

"We believe that there is a low possibility that a massive amount of radiation has been leaked. But it is similar to the time when the hydrogen explosion took place in number 1 reactor (which exploded on Saturday).

In the case of number 3 reactor, we can see higher level of radiation. We are now collecting information for the concentration of the radiation and the dose."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

Z28Camaro6D9 said:

If this was just a similar Hydrogen gas explosion such as the one that occurred yesterday (after which radiation levels were said to have lowered in the vicinity) how come they are now telling people to shelter in place at the outer periphery of the evacuation zone ? And another thing that maybe Dazed or Mickey Mouse can answer: As I understand it, the hydrogen is produced when cold emergency cooling water comes in contact with the super-heated zirconium cladding holding the exposed fuel rods. The reaction is so fast and violent that steam doesn't even have time to form, instead the hydrogen and oxygen molecules are just ripped apart, only to ignite at later time while trapped against the roof of the containment building. This to me would indicate that the emergency cooling is not going as well as planned. Am I missing something ? I understand that the containment vessels may still be intact, but for how much longer ?

Click to expand...

I'm getting behind again.............

Until they know for sure that radiation levels are NOT increasing, advice to shelter in place seems prudent.

Hydrogen is formed in two ways. A certain amount is the result of water being broken down by normal operation and shutdown; I do not know how much. I doubt it is anywhere near the quantity that blew the building however.

The second process is when the zerconium fuel cladding is overheated and exposed to steam / water. The water breaks down into oxygen and hydrogen when in contact with the zirconium at elevated temperatures. Some of the oxygen is combined with the cladding, oxidising it. The hydrogen gas gets vented out of the reactor vessel along with steam. It is SUPPOSED to go up the tall vent stack but clearly that has not worked very well!

A nuclear explosion, like a bomb, is simply IMPOSSIBLE in a reactor. The uranium enrichment is too low, among other things. IT CAN"T HAPPEN, PERIOD. Other bad things can, of course, but not a nuclear explosion.

Why a large steam release seems to occur about the same time as the hydrogen explosion I have no idea. I have yet to see good pictures of the blast or building afterwards - oops, I see one above tis post, sorry!!

They must repeatedly vent steam to keep the pressure in the reactor low enough that the pump(s) they are using can make more water pressure than steam pressure in order to flow water into the reactor. The plant has several pump systems, including high pressure injection >1000 PSI and low pressure injection at about 300 PSI, among others, but these seem to be inoperable at uits #1 & #3.. I have no idea what they have jury rigged right now, maybe fire trucks for all I know. Those would be low pressure, maybe 250 PSI but that is only a guess. At this point, any way to keep some water flowing into the reactors is important.

There is really no reason for the "containmnet vessel" NOT to be intact. The reactor vessel is probably getting SOME water which will keep it from being melted through. The containment "can" and supporting concrete is designed to not melt through, even in a TOTAL melt down of the core and failure of the reactor vessel.

There is really no reason for the "containmnet vessel" NOT to be intact.

I hope it is, but with the seismic hits the plant has taken, and the explosion, there must be the possibility it's not in optimum condition, either.

Screen grab from NHK

Fukkendiditagain Reactor #3 before and after.

There are so many threads ongoing about Japan that I don't know where to post what. Could they be combined in some way ?

ETA: I have no idea where all those asteriks are coming from so I deleted the statement. You can read it at the link.
------

Statement from the 7th Fleet.

From:http://northshorejournal.org/7th-fleet-repositions-ships-after-contamination-detected

I'll stick by my statement the reactor and primary containment are intact. Piping may be damaged and leaking but not the vessel. If there were a breach of the reactor vessel, radiation readings would be high and constant release of steam would be visible, not just in spurts.

In the pictures of the plant, do you see the tower? That is the 300' tall exhaust stack. When they vent air, hydrogen and steam that is one of the places it is SUPPOSED to go. I suspect some radioactive materials HAVE been going up that stack and the prevailing winds would carry them out to sea. They would slowly settle out, maybe on our aircraft carrier. Prudent to move the ship, of course, but does not necessarily indicate a LOT of contamination. As much steam as the plants are having to vent I don't see how they can avoid venting some radioactive contamination - it would overwhelm the filters if the steam is even passing through them.

Thank you Dazed and Mickey for your well thought out assessments on this very fluid situation. (No pun intended !)
Given the latest and more violent explosion, my concern would be the current internal geometry within the #3 core. Can water still be injected and steam vented ? I am worried that the piping infrastructure may have been compromised if even slightly so, further complicating the ongoing emergency cooling operations.
EDIT: Just answered above, thank you.

MickeyMouse said:

I'll stick by my statement the reactor and primary containment are intact. Piping may be damaged and leaking but not the vessel. If there were a breach of the reactor vessel, radiation readings would be high and constant release of steam would be visible, not just in spurts.

In the pictures of the plant, do you see the tower? That is the 300' tall exhaust stack. When they vent air, hydrogen and steam that is one of the places it is SUPPOSED to go. I suspect some radioactive materials HAVE been going up that stack and the prevailing winds would carry them out to sea. They would slowly settle out, maybe on our aircraft carrier. Prudent to move the ship, of course, but does not necessarily indicate a LOT of contamination. As much steam as the plants are having to vent I don't see how they can avoid venting some radioactive contamination - it would overwhelm the filters if the steam is even passing through them.

Click to expand...

But, I thought you said the worst was over.

truthseeker said:

But, I thought you said the worst was over.

Click to expand...

I don't believe I said that.

However, as time goes by, less decay heat is generated so that is a plus. Less cooling water is required after two or three days.

Cold shutdown and good stability may take weeks considering all that has happened. The truth of how much equipment and piping damage has occurred will take a long time to filter out.

ngalyak Hosokawa Komei
NISA says the Unit-2 reactor at Fukushima-I (Daiichi) has lost all its cooling systems. LOCA is suspect. ../cont.
6 minutes ago

ngalyak Hosokawa Komei
Fukushima I-2 (cont.) Operators will release radioactive vapor into enviroment out of the reactor container in order to ease the pressure.
5 minutes ago

ngalyak Hosokawa Komei
Fukushima I-2 (cont.) 　Note that Unit 1 and 2 reactors of Fukushima-I (Daiichi) have uranium fuel, while Unit 3 has plutonium fuel (MOX).
3 minutes ago

EMN Earthquake Japan
URGENT - Cooling functions have stopped and water levels are falling in #Fukushima Daiichi No. 1 Plant Reactor 2 - Jiji
17 minutes ago

And so this is the 3rd one in a row???

NUMBER 2 REACTOR JUST NOW REPORTED TO HAVE LOST ALL IT'S COOLANT....EXPLOSION PROBABLE.

PRESSURE RISING. JUST NOW REPORTED ON JAPAN NEWS

CONTAINMENT VESSEL OF NUMBER 3 REACTOR REMAINS SAFE

3 in a row?

Lord help.

Can anyone confirm the science of this post?


I found it on glp , every so often there are tidbits of invaluable info , but one really has to dig thru the muck..

anyways here is what a poster named Crap (lol, ya i know) posted.. and it scared me enough to at least share for anyone here to debunk it ..

Reactor 1 and 3 exploded. Reactor 3 was burning MOX fuel which is a VERY radioactive fuel when used.

MOX is bad because it will burn hotter then regular uranium. This was warned to be a bad fuel IF the plant were to come close to meltdown. Basically a MOX burning plant will meltdown sooner, easier. It will also push much more radiation into the air. More on that in a minute...

A hydrogen explosion has been confirmed at reactor #3, the MOX burning reactor. The hydrogen was created when the fuel rods are above water and interact with steam. If the hydrogen explodes then the rods that made the hydrogen are also exposed to the atmosphere. The shields are blown wide open now.

First off, this means a lot of radiation is being ejected from the plant and will poison many in the direct vicinity and those down winds. And if this isn't bad enough, it gets worse, WAY WORSE!!!

MOX naturally burns hotter. When the meltdown fuel rods receive fresh oxygen it begins to burn even hotter. And when I say burn, I mean the fission process. Normal Uranium Fuel will begin the "China Syndrome" when mixed with fresh oxygen.

The China Syndrome is when the core and everything around it melts into a super hot blob. The ground melts away and the blob sinks into the Earth. It would continue all the way to the core but it won't. It will hit a water table eventually. And when it does.......KABOOOOOMMMMM!!!!!!!!

The instant steam bomb mixed with used and unused MOX fuel will travel up the carved tube to the surface. Nothing man made will hold this back. It will eject this super heated steam far into the atmosphere where the steam will flash freeze and form radioactive clouds really high up. These clouds will be caught up by the Jet Stream. Which happens to be directly over head of the reactor.

So, this is it people. Earth is ****ed! Let's pray to God someone finds a way to prevent the China Syndrome or else........................all that radiation will soon be in the upper atmosphere to circle the Earth in days.

Click to expand...

Kyodo News 16:33 14 March

"BREAKING NEWS: Fuel rod of No. 2 reactor about to be above cooling water: Ednao

NEWS ADVISORY: Gov't trying to resume injection of seawater to No. 3 reactor: Edano

BREAKING NEWS: Gov't will do best to avoid No. 2 reactor explosion: Edano

MickeyMouse said:

Yes, your assumption is in error. The water in a reactor is mildly radioactive under normal conditions. No problem. IF, big IF here, fuel cladding is damaged - melted, cracked etc. - then what is inside that sealed fuel rod can escape into the water surrounding it; the reactor coolant water. Two of the radionuclides they watch for in the coolant to determine this is Cesium 137 and Iodine 131. The degree to which they are present indicates how much fuel damage has occurred.

So how do these nasties get out into the enviornment? Coolant (water) contains the nasties if fuel is damaged. The pressure relief valves on the reactor (set at about 1100 PSI on the GE, I understand) open to prevent a pressure induced rupture. That releases steam that has our nasties in it. The steam flows down into the suppression pool where it is cooled and condensed (unless the pool is overheated as Fukushima's are). Gases (like Iodine) and particles (like Cesium) leave the suppression pool either via the discharge channel (a drain) or the vent stack (the tower you see in pictures). Filters catch most of the crud, (nearly all in normal circumstances) but during a major problem like they have now far more crud makes it through the filters, thereby being released into the air and water.

Hydrogen is one of the nasties when the fuel rods are too hot. Water reacts with the zirconium cladding of the rods breaking it down into hydrogen and oxygen gas. the H & O mostly go up the stack in a perfect world but in the REAL world, some does not and accumulates in the highest part of the building. All it takes is a spark.......

Actually, we can assume there is a lot of H & O in the reactor and primary containment too. We can expect they are making every effort to vent it out of there for obvious reasons, hopefully up the stack. This may be the "air" referenced in Tepco's press releases.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the explanation. I'm glad my assumption was wrong. It makes a lot of sense that when they vented the steam, any contaminants that had leaked out would be vented along with it, accounting for the rising radiation levels seen before the explosion.

MickeyMouse said:

No problem, it happens!!



Yes, tanks could be damaged. ANYTHING could be damaged after a 9.1 quake!!


Following is a too long answer to that and the confusion over what constitutes a "melt down".

1st, the spent fuel pools. Essentially they are tanks with a removable cover. When "spent" fuel is pulled out of the reactor and placed in the pool it is still making a lot of decay heat and giving off radiation. The pool water is circulated and cooled and also provides shielding for the radiation. As it spends time in the pool it gives off less and less heat and radiation. How much cooling is required depends on the spent fuel's age. Because the spent fuel pool is under little or no pressure, keeping water in it is fairly simple. They could literally point a fire hose at it. I wouldn't worry much about that one right now.

As for "melt-down". That can be a bit confusing at times!! Let's try to picture how things are made. Fuel is slightly enriched uranium formed into pellets of uranium oxide. Those pellets are placed inside a tube of zirconium metal and the ends welded shut. That is a fuel rod. Many fuel rods are assembled into a bundle with spacers such that water can flow between the rods. A bundle is known as a fuel assembly. A number of fuel assemblies with additional spacers and baffles make up the nuclear core which is located inside a very heavy steel tank, the reactor vessel. A number of other structures are also inside the vessel to direct water flow, dry the steam, support and position everything, etc.

The core requires cooling to carry off the heat, even when shut down. (All control rods inserted.) Some of the heat is residual heat that was stored in all the metal and water during operation. In addition, various isotopes created during the chain reaction continue to put off heat from their natural decay, the greatest in the first 48 hours after the chain reaction stops - but some continues for a long time.

At the time the reactor is shut down is the greatest cooling load, some 3% of normal output, but it remains fairly high for a couple days as the short half life stuff decays. The 1000 PSI of pressure will climb as the temperature climbs if no cooling goes on. At about 1100 PSI, steam is released into the suppression pool to limit the pressure. Water must be injected to replace that lost to steaming. Failing to inject enough water results in the water level inside the reactor vessel dropping too low and not properly cooling the fuel assemblies. If the zirconium cladding around the fuel gets too hot, it breaks water down into hydrogen & oxygen. Some of that oxygen is consumed by oxidizing the zirconium. Further overheating causes the cladding to distort, crack and MELT, releasing not only uranium fuel but the fission fragments from the chain reaction; Iodine, Cesium and Plutonium to name only three. This can be called fuel damage, fuel failure, cladding damage, etc. or MELT DOWN, although the entire reactor has NOT melted. So far, all the stuff remains contained in the reactor vessel or tank. A little will be released via steam or water leaving the vessel. As things like fuel assemblies, separators and baffles distort, water flow is impaired. Even though cooling water flow is fully restored, localized over heating could still occur. Obviously, fuel overheating is very serious. So long as some water remains, however, the reactor vessel will probaly survive. No fuel can melt through the vessel into the space below at this time. If it DOES lose all water and melt through the bottom of the vessel then things become MORE serious. Next will be the containment shell, another thick hunk of steel surrounded by concrete. Can that be penetrated? Maybe but so far as I know it has never happened - yet. So long as they get SOME water to the reactor, I really doubt it will happen now, either.

Click to expand...

Thank you for that too. My worry is that your worse case scenario happens, and my hope is that it does not.

And of course my main worry hasn't changed - and that is that there is actual structural damage to the steel and concrete as well as the pipes and valves and that is why they can't seem to maintain a water level. Add to that that the computers themselves may be damaged after all the EQ and aftershocks and aren't functioning either and they are doing things manually that the computers should be doing for them. Lots of horrific things that are a result of the land shaking violently and force of the tsunami waters crashing in and not the usual meltdown type things one usually factors in (which are bad enough).

The fact that every few hours another plant starts to experience problems this late in the game to me says they have all experienced some sort of structural/computer control damage that is getting compounded with each major aftershock so that a small crack that is not leaking anything becomes a large crack that does, a pipe barely connected becomes unattached, a valve holding on by a few threads tears open, etc. And that is why we are hearing of new problems so many days later. Is that a plausible explanation?

HD

What part of "Lost ALL, ALL ALL it's Coolant do some here NOT UNDERSTAND?

ainitfunny said:

What part of "Lost ALL, ALL ALL it's Coolant do some here NOT UNDERSTAND?

Click to expand...

When I read a statement like that then I figure it is a misprint. I figure the cooling system is down is what they want to say. And of course the coolant is low. It is always low.

BornFree said:

When I read a statement like that then I figure it is a misprint. I figure the cooling system is down is what they want to say. And of course the coolant is low. It is always low.

Click to expand...

go listen to ENGLISH version Japan TV
SEVERAL REPRESENTATIVES of the government, the Nuclear team and right now a scientist are saying the same thing. They expect #2 to explode

IT is PRECISELY BECAUSE the Japanese tend to UNDERSTATE their problems, that I was so disturbed by that statement which has been repeated at least FIFTY TIMES in the last three hours.

Found this on the Ticker Forum thread, it's from Survivalblog. Note that the article (below is an excerpt) was written and posted by Rawles in September; it is in connection with loss of grid power from an EMP or severe solar storm. But the situation is the same, whatever the loss of power is from. He explains very clearly why there is no need of a core meltdown to have a very bad radiation leak. From everything I have read (and it has been obsessive for 2 days at least), it looks as though this is exactly what is happening at the Fukushima nuke plant.

TF link:

http://tickerforum.org/akcs-www?post=182121&page=16


Survivalblog link:

http://www.survivalblog.com/2010/09/effects_of_an_emp_attack_or_se.html

Effects of an EMP Attack or Severe Solar Storm on Nuclear Power Plants, by B.Z.

You might ask, “well, if the containment structure can contain the melted reactor core, is there a real danger to the public?” The answer is, “yes,” but not from where you think. The reactor core may well be the focus of most people, but the real concern is somewhere else.

What many people don't know about nuclear power plants is that when spent fuel is off-loaded from the reactor core, the fuel is then placed into what is essentially a large, very deep swimming pool called the “spent fuel pool.” Fuel that has been removed from an operating reactor core is still very hot (both in the sense of temperature and radiation level). In fact, if you were to stand within even 50 feet of a spent fuel assembly with no shielding, you would receive a lethal dose of radiation in just seconds. The water in the spent fuel pool, in addition to cooling the fuel assemblies, acts as a biological shield. In fact, water is an excellent shielding material. You can stand at the top of the spent fuel pool in virtually any nuclear power plant in the US and receive virtually no dose of radiation, so long as the fuel assemblies are covered by about 25 feet of water.

The building that houses the spent fuel pools at nuclear power plants in this country is usually a simple building, with concrete sides and floors but usually with nothing but a thin, corrugated steel roof. This is the root of the problem. Just like the fuel in the reactor, the fuel assemblies in the spent fuel in pool must also be cooled. These pools have their own independent, multiply redundant systems for cooling, separate from the systems that cool the reactor core. However, these pool cooling systems can be cross-tied with the reactor cooling systems in an emergency. The water in the spent fuel pool must be continuously circulated through heat exchangers (again, like your car radiator) to reject heat. Loss of off-site power will also cause a loss of spent fuel cooling. Normally, the temperature in these spent fuel pools is somewhere around 100 to 110 degrees F or so (similar to a typical suburban “hot tub”). When the spent fuel cooling system pumps stop operating, the fuel assemblies in the spent fuel pool will immediately begin to heat up. These fuel assemblies will continue to heat the water in the spent fuel pool until it boils. The best case scenario of “time to boil” for these spent fuel pools is perhaps 90 hours. The worst case, such as just after a core offload, would be much shorter, perhaps as little as four hours or even less. At that point, once the fuel assemblies in the spent fuel pool become uncovered because the water has boiled off, the effects mirror what would happen in the reactor core. The spent fuel assemblies will heat up until the fuel cladding starts to melt. As bits of the melting fuel fall into what is left of the water in the pool, the process will just accelerate as the heat source is now more concentrated since it has fallen back into the water and the water may flash to steam and this may cause the pressure in the building to increase, and radioactive steam, carrying radioactive particles, will now begin to exit the building through the non-sealed penetrations, portals or doors in the building.

Of course, there are usually multiple sources of water than can be called upon to re-fill the spent fuel pool before the water all boils off. But virtually all of these systems are dependent upon working, electrically operated pumps to move this water. If control systems have failed due to the EMP and there is no power to operate the pumps (either to add additional water or to pump water through the heat exchangers), then the fuel will ultimately become uncovered. Exposing the hot zirconium fuel cladding to air and steam causes an exothermic reaction, and the cladding will actually catch fire at about 1,000 degrees C. Even the NRC concedes that this type of fire cannot be extinguished, and could rage for days (Source: Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, Vol. 58, No. 1, Jan./Feb. 2002).

The bottom-line is that if the spent fuel cooling pumps cannot be operated or the system cannot be cross-tied with the reactor shutdown cooling system, then the fuel assemblies in the spent fuel pool will melt, catch fire, and radioactive fission products will be released into the atmosphere and much of the countryside downwind of the nuclear power plant will be contaminated for many years.
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Earth to listeners...there are no working pumps...the pumps are NOT working.

What I suspect is happening is that they have an IF ALL ELSE FAILS BACKUP SYSTEM.

They probably have a GRAVITY FED VALVE TO THE OCEAN and THAT is what they are trying or have been trying to use since the pump failures and damage. I also suspect that they are not saying what should be obvious...that the heated water is being released to the ocean as it heats and more ocean water is let in to cool. But I fear and think from their "read between the lines" statements that the Tsunami has clogged or damaged THAT last resort sea water cooling system.

I heard the VERY high level meetings heads of govt, UN, world nuclear regulatory etc, nuke powerplant people, Power company, etc. which was held a couple days ago on whether to open "the valve".

The entire high level discussion was about whether to open "the valve" but nobody would elaborate on WHAT VALVE they were talking about.It was not long after that meeting they started talked about they were cooling with sea water.

ainitfunny said:

go listen to ENGLISH version Japan TV
SEVERAL REPRESENTATIVES of the government, the Nuclear team and right now a scientist are saying the same thing. They expect #2 to explode

IT is PRECISELY BECAUSE the Japanese tend to UNDERSTATE their problems, that I was so disturbed by that statement which has been repeated at least FIFTY TIMES in the last three hours.

Click to expand...

First off....Every time I go to that station they are not talking about the reactors. You would think they were CNN. Then off course we know the pumps are not working. That is the definition of the cooling system is not working. Thirdly I believe that they would be talking about the outer containment blowing like it did on the other two reactors. That is getting to be old hat now. But If they are actually saying that the reactor is very likely to blow then that would be something to worry about for sure. It is just hard to believe the officials would say that given the their history on this thing. It is so easy for people to unintentionally misinterpret what is being said. And old news gets recycled as new news...And on and on.

I just get used to so much disinformation over the course of several days that I just adjust the info based on what I believe is real.

P.S. I just checked it again. They doing the weather forecast. Did you know that It is going to rain?

If you open another tab you can LISTEN TO THE BROADCAST WHILE YOU POST or surf and won't miss important stuff.
they are repeating that #2 has lost all it's coolant

and the containment building could explode
pressure inside the containment vessel is increasing