REL GENRL Terry Jones Accused of 'Spiritual Abuse' at Cologne Church

FarmerJohn

Has No Life - Lives on TB
By Yassin Musharbash and Dominik Peters

US fundamentalist pastor Terry Jones, who wants to burn copies of the Koran on Sept. 11, ran a church in the western German city of Cologne until last year when members of the congregation expelled him. Former members have spoken of his hate-filled sermons and insistence on "blind obedience."

The world is holding its breath -- and it's all down to a tiny Christian fundamentalist church in Florida.

Next Saturday, on the anniversary of the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, Rev. Terry Jones and his colleagues plan to burn hundreds of copies of the Koran on the church's property in Gainesville, Florida.
The White House has condemned the plan, and Muslim organizations around the world have warned of the consequences should the Koran-burning go ahead. But the church is sticking to its plans.

Naturally the radical Islamophobes know very well that their deliberate provocation could trigger potentially violent protests and riots. But they have washed their hands of any responsibility. "Let's just make one thing clear," the wannabe Koran-burners write on their blog. "A small church, in a small town, down a back road, burning copies of its own books, on its own property, is not responsible for the violent actions anyone may take in retaliation to our protest."

Terry Jones, the man behind the action, is the pastor of the Dove World Outreach Center, a church that manages to attract a Sunday congregation of just 50 people, members of the radical fringe of the evangelical movement. Jones, a 58-year-old former hotel manager with a distinctive mustache, is also the author of a polemic book titled "Islam Is of the Devil."

'Climate of Fear and Control'

In the United States, Jones has already attracted attention on several occasions as an Islamophobic provocateur. What is less well known is that the pastor led a charismatic evangelical church, the Christian Community of Cologne, in the western German city up until 2009. Last year, however, the members of the congregation kicked founder Jones out, because of his radicalism. One of the church's current leaders, Stephan Baar, also told the German news agency DPA that there had been suspicions of financial irregularities in the church surrounding Jones.

A "climate of fear and control" had previously prevailed in the congregation, says one former member of the church who does not want to be named. Instead of free expression, "blind obedience" was demanded, he says.

Various witnesses gave SPIEGEL ONLINE consistent accounts of the Jones' behavior. The pastor and his wife apparently regarded themselves as having been appointed by God, meaning opposition was a crime against the Lord. Terry and Sylvia Jones allegedly used these methods to ask for money in an increasingly insistent manner, as well as making members of the congregation carry out work.

Andrew Schäfer, a Protestant Church official responsible for monitoring sects in the region where Cologne is located, confirmed the accounts. "Terry Jones is a fundamentalist," he told SPIEGEL ONLINE.

Both major churches in Germany have "sect commissioners" who monitor the activities of religious groups, sects and cults. Although they are obviously not totally impartial, the officials' findings are usually considered to be trustworthy.

'Delusional Personality'

Former church members are still undergoing therapy as a result of "spiritual abuse," Schäfer said. According to Schäfer, Jones urged church members to beat their children with a rod and also taught "a distinctive demonology" and conducted brainwashing.

"Terry Jones appears to have a delusional personality," speculates Schäfer. When he came to Germany in the 1980s, Jones apparently considered Cologne "a city of Hell that was founded by Nero's mother," while he thought Germany was "a key country for the supposed Christian revival of Europe," Schäfer says.

Terry Jones used his powers of persuasion to expand the congregation. By the end, Schäfer estimates, it numbered between 800 and 1,000 people. They had to work in the so-called "Lisa Jones Houses," charitable institutions named after his first wife who has since died, under very poor conditions.

Increasingly Radical

Jones became increasingly radical as the years went by, former associates say. At one point he wanted to help a homosexual member to "pray away his sins." Later he began to increasingly target Islam in his sermons. A congregation member reported that some members were afraid to attend services because they expected to be attacked by Muslims. "Terry Jones has a talent for finding topical social issues and seizing on them for his own cause," says Schäfer.

By the end of 2007, the community had had enough. Members confronted him and tried to change the direction of the church. But Terry Jones refused to make changes, they say. In the end, Jones, his wife and their fellow preachers were expelled from the church and he moved back to the US. "The community imploded," says Schäfer. It only has some 80 active members today.

Now the whole world is condemning Jones for his planned burning of copies of the Koran. Schäfer, for his part, sees Jones as a fanatic who is courting global media attention because he couldn't cope with the "immense loss of power and significance."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,716409,00.html
 

KKC

Veteran Member
Looks like the media is doing its patriotic part and demonizing this guy for the sake of the administration. Well done Yassin.
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
The things said about this pastor may or may not be true. But it's interesting is that the focus is on the people who are not committing violence and are exercising free speech. These are the ones who are being pilloried instead of those who will foment active violence because of the actions of a dozen people half a world away. Why isn't the world outcry against those who are issuing threats? If a mosque was buring bibles do you think anyone in government or media would even care? Would it even get a mention on the evening news? The christians are targeted primarily because they are non-violent and they are considered a 'safe' target. I don't approve of what this pastor is going to do as I don't believe it's wisdom. But by God as an American he has the right to do it and we should support it even if we don't think he's operating in wisdom.
 

Garryowen

Deceased
that there had been suspicions of financial irregularities in the church surrounding Jones.
If you notice the choice of words in the article, it is obviously a hit piece. Wasn't there an audit of the books?



Andrew Schäfer, a Protestant Church official responsible for monitoring sects in the region where Cologne is located, confirmed the accounts. "Terry Jones is a fundamentalist," he told SPIEGEL ONLINE.

Why do I think Andrew Schafer commenting on Terry Jones is like having Sarah Brady analyze Ted Nugent? Just what is a "Fundamentalist" and why should that be a concern to someone? And who is Andrew Schafer, and who gave him the "responsibility" to monitor someone else's "sect?"

I am not defending Terry Jones or his decision (a very ill-advised one, IMO) to burn Qurans, but I'd be glad to have a less-obviously-biased article on his background.

"Islamophobic" kinda gave away the intent of the writer.

regards,

Garryowen
 

Mephib

Senior Member
This guy is an obvious nutcase - asking a homosexual to pray away his sins, believing in demons, exposing Islam - why I...

Wait, I do all the same stuff.

Nevermind...
 

squakbx

Inactive
I live in Gainesville.
I can't believe all the press this crazy man is getting.
He isn't a man of God in my opinion.
Last year he made the children of his very small church wear
t-shirts to school that said Islam is evil... Islam is the devil.
Now this year all children in Alachua county have to wear solid colored
polo type shirts with no logos or letters.
There so many stories about this crazy man I just wish the press would go home and not give him the attention he is craving.
 

undead

Veteran Member
What the libs are trying for in this matter is to get the guy locked up for exercising stupid-speech.

Their fascination with the destruction of the Constitution using something called "hate speech crimes" is exactly what we're seeing.


Be very wary.
 
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Tundra Gypsy

Veteran Member
Why is this guy even making it into the news? Is the media wanting to make a big issue out of this so that they will have something to report?

The news has been rather slow right now; especially after reporting Paris Hilton getting caught with 'someone else's purse with cocaine in it...

There is nothing newsworthy and the media is hyping this; shame on them.
 

topcat46

Inactive
Yep, an obvious hit piece. Doesn't matter whether any of it is true or not because the purpose of the article is to retaliate against the planned Koran burning.

We need to have mass burnings of the Koran all across the country. Time to stand up to Islam and all of its dhimmis in the media and .gov.
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
By Yassin Musharbash and Dominik Peters

Well, there you have it. An objective piece of journalism if there ever was one.



BTW, I abhor what this pastor is going to do. I've said so on multiple threads, in no uncertain terms. But let's assume for a moment that everything in the OP is true. He STILL wouldn't rise to the level of (or sink to the level of?) the "Right Reverend" Jeremiah Wright, or pretty much ANY muzzie "imam." So personally, while his actions offend me deeply, I support him as far more moderate than the rest of the so-called "fundamentalist" crowd.

If he wants to burn the Qu'ran, fine. this is AMERICA. SCOTUS has upheld that people can burn OUR FLAG. So, he needs to be allowed his act of free speech, even if it offends some. (I'm waiting for someone to come upon him with a knife in his chest, piercing a bloody note penned by yet another wild-eyed muzzie freak.)
 

undead

Veteran Member
Where was all the leftist outrage at Robert Mapplethorpe's "Piss on Christ" exhibition? Or Larry David finding it humorous to piss on a figure of Christ on HBO?


Liberals. What a bunch of pieholes.
 

KKC

Veteran Member
After hearing the news this morning I don't think he's going to do it. He made the statement "if God talks to me and tells me not to than I won't do it” Then in the next breath he says. Or if someone from the White House or Pentagon calls me. I think the Korans are safe. I really thought the guy had the moxie for it but the cracks are beginning to show. I'm not sure if I'm relieved or disappointed.
 

conundrum

Inactive
Do you think it a coincidence that this guy is broadcast all over the world as the new poster child for Christianity?
The world wants to make this our fault and paint Christians as warmongers.


The world is complaining because islam is their latest pc cause.

The church is complaining because he is doing this in the name of Christianity.


Maybe if you guys listened to Christian radio and networks instead of lies-are-us then you would hear of all the real Christians, even some missionaries that have been over there, plead for him to follow the Bible.

Hey even Glenn Beck...
 

Kent

Inactive
FBI Keeping Watch on Quran-Burning Threat
John Raoux / AP

The FBI has begun to collect information relating to a plan by a radical Christian pastor in Florida to stage a public Quran burning on the ninth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks this Saturday. Given constitutional provisions protecting the freedom of expression, however, officials say they don't believe the FBI or any other federal authority has the power to stop at least a token Quran burning by the Rev. Terry Jones of the Dove World Outreach Center.

Craig Lowe, mayor of Gainesville, the Florida university town where Jones's church is located, has confirmed to Declassified that local authorities have been in contact with both the FBI's small resident office in Gainesville and with the bureau's larger field office in Jacksonville to discuss the Quran-burning threat. The FBI, Lowe says, is "gathering information that might be related" to the church's plans, but he declined to elaborate on what kind of information was being gathered or what the bureau or other authorities might be able to do with it. Jeff Westcott, a spokesman for the FBI's Jacksonville office, refused to comment on or confirm Lowe's claims.

Mayor Lowe says that Jones's church applied last month for a permit to stage a bonfire to burn Qurans on the 9/11 anniversary. The mayor says Gainesville city authorities rejected the permit application on grounds of public safety and environmental protection. What city or other authorities—local, state, or federal—can or will do if Jones and his followers stage a bonfire without a permit is unclear. The mayor says the city's response would be "based within the law" and would be framed so as to ensure "compliance with the law." He says that authorities have been making contingency plans for such an eventuality, which they are "updating . . . as we receive new information." However, he declined to discuss the details of these contingency plans or any possible responses to a Quran burning that might be under consideration.

Lowe confirms that when he was running for mayor earlier this year, Jones and his church launched a personal attack on him because he's gay. During the election, Jones's church posted a sign reading "No Homo Mayor," similar to one currently posted announcing the Quran-burning event. After a secularist group filed a complaint with the Internal Revenue Service questioning whether such a proclamation by the church constituted a potential violation of its tax-exempt status because it constituted a political statement, the sign was then truncated to "No Homo," the mayor says. He says he doesn't believe the church's opposition to his election had a significant influence on his successful campaign for mayor.

Numerous religious and political leaders, including such Obama administration figures as Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Attorney General Eric Holder, have condemned the Quran-burning threats by Jones, an outspoken fundamentalist who previously headed a church in Germany, from which he was ousted by local parishioners last year, according to the German magazine Der Spiegel.

The FBI has evidently been paying attention to the uproar surrounding the Quran-burning plan for several weeks; an "Intelligence Bulletin" issued by the Jacksonville office on Aug. 19 refers to scraps of information suggesting Muslim "Extremists Likely to Retaliate Against Florida Group's Planned 'International Burn A Koran Day' Scheduled for 11 September 2010."

A government official following the developments, who asked for anonymity when discussing sensitive information, says that the FBI's current monitoring of events does not constitute an "investigation" of Jones or his church because authorities at this point do not believe there is any federal law under which an FBI investigation could be launched.
 

Metolius

Inactive
I heard him on the news this am too. When asked if he'd even read the Koran, he said "only parts of it." When asked what parts were objectionable and that lead to islamic fanaticism such that the text should be burned and banned, he mentioned only a couple of items, one of which was that the book didn't accept "Jesus Christ as savior".

The reporter said well, neither does the Torah, so will you be burning the Jewish holy book next? The "pastor" said "of course not." But if this is his stated logic, then this shouldn't be limited strictly to the Koran.

I've heard enough now. He is a cult type, who merely wants publicity and power for his own delusions. A Jim Jones style thinker. So let him do what he wishes to do - there is no law against it, or owning a cult either. But what he is doing isn't for the reasons he states, given his inability to state a consistant, rational motive. Now I get that this isn't about religion at all; it certainly has nothing to do with the religious freedoms that were the foundation of our nation.

He is just another attention hound seeking his 15 minutes of fame, like a reality tv star. Except he will blacken the eye of real christians. Just like the fanatical muslems blacken the reputation of the rest of the muslims. Of course, I always hear that if real muslims weren't also closet fanatics, then why don't they protest what the fanatics do? But I see the same happening with respect to this fanatic pastor's actions, on the opposite side of the team sport of "there can only be one religion and that is mine." This isn't the first time a con man has used religion as a front, and it won't be the last.

I just hope that no innocent person gets hurt in this war of fanatic baiting other fanatics, as this unstable man burns Korans so that he can get the most unstable Koran believers to react in kind. This isn't what real religious beliefs teach people to do to one another.
 

FarmerJohn

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Where was all the leftist outrage at Robert Mapplethorpe's "Piss on Christ" exhibition? Or Larry David finding it humorous to piss on a figure of Christ on HBO?

Most of us would prefer to ignore our wackos.

I believe that you are referring to the 1987 photograph by Andres Serrano that involved a plastic crucifix. Sister Wendy Beckett, an art critic and Catholic nun, stated in a television interview with Bill Moyers that she regarded the work as not blasphemous but a statement on "what we have done to Christ": that is, the way contemporary society has come to regard Christ and the values he represents.
 

undead

Veteran Member
Most of us would prefer to ignore our wackos.

I believe that you are referring to the 1987 photograph by Andres Serrano that involved a plastic crucifix. Sister Wendy Beckett, an art critic and Catholic nun, stated in a television interview with Bill Moyers that she regarded the work as not blasphemous but a statement on "what we have done to Christ": that is, the way contemporary society has come to regard Christ and the values he represents.

I see, so as long as we can find someone else to rationalize things done by others, then it's all cool?


And btw, why aren't you ignoring this wacko?
 

FarmerJohn

Has No Life - Lives on TB
And btw, why aren't you ignoring this wacko?

Too late, the genie is out of the bottle and we can't get him back in.

There was a lot of small-talk around the edges but then General Petraeus stepped in big-time. I suppose that he did what he thought he had to do to keep open the possibility of success for his mission.
 

FarmerJohn

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Why promote Islamic fundamentalism?

If you notice the choice of words in the article, it is obviously a hit piece. Just what is a "Fundamentalist" and why should that be a concern to someone?regards,

Garryowen

"Fundamentalist" is the unifying characteristic between 'our' crazies and 'theirs.'

No church that I've ever attended has suggested that I go out and stone people that violated certain arcane biblical rules. Most mosques are the same way about the Qur'an....

Why promote Islamic fundamentalism?

Instead of burning a Qur'an, why don't you download the Qur'an as a digital file, then delete it, if that's what makes you feel better?
 
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