CRISIS Oh, where are the defenders of Christendom???

T

topcat46

Inactive
On a number of threads today we see the cowardice shown before Islam. Everywhere fear of offending Muslims over the possible burning of a few Korans - a book of pure evil. It's not the "Christian" thing to do. Check out Drudge today - the Vatican, the media, western govts, the military (Gen. Petraeus), politicians, the FBI all bowing before Islam.

Where are the brave such as those who fought and were victorious over Islam in the Battle of Lepanto?
At the Battle of Lepanto, the Holy League lost 50 galleys and suffered approximately 13,000 casualties. This was offset by the freeing of a similar number of Christian slaves from the Ottoman ships. In addition to the death of Ali Pasha, the Ottomans lost 25,000 killed and wounded and an additional 3,500 captured. Their fleet lost 210 ships, of which 130 were captured by the Holy League. Coming at what was seen as a crisis point for Christianity, the victory at Lepanto stemmed Ottoman expansion in the Mediterranean and prevented their influence from spreading west.
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The Catholic Church even commemorated the victory:
In 1571 Pope Pius V instituted "Our Lady of Victory" as an annual feast to commemorate the victory of Lepanto. The victory was attributed to the Blessed Virgin Mary, as a rosary procession had been offered on that day in St. Peter's Square in Rome for the success of the mission of the Holy League to hold back Muslim forces from overrunning Western Europe. In 1573, Pope Gregory XIII changed the title of this feast-day to "Feast of the Holy Rosary". This feast was extended by Pope Clement XII to the whole of the Latin Rite, inserting it into the Roman Catholic calendar of saints in 1716, and assigning it to the first Sunday in October. Pope Pius X changed the date to 7 October in 1913, as part of his effort to restore celebration of the liturgy of the Sundays. In 1969, Pope Paul VI changed the name of the feast to "Our Lady of the Rosary".
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Where is our next Charles Martel who defeated Islam at the Battle of Tours?
Later Christian chroniclers and pre-20th century historians praised Charles Martel as the champion of Christianity, characterizing the battle as the decisive turning point in the struggle against Islam, a struggle which preserved Christianity as the religion of Europe; according to modern military historian Victor Davis Hanson, "most of the 18th and 19th century historians, like Gibbon, saw Poitiers (Tours), as a landmark battle that marked the high tide of the Muslim advance into Europe."[10] Leopold von Ranke felt that "Poitiers was the turning point of one of the most important epochs in the history of the world."
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Islam continues this day in it's effort of world conquest and we surrender without even fighting. We should be ashamed.........
 
David Nettleton

David Nettleton

Veteran Member
They cut off heads, noses, fingers, kill infidels and Jews, and of course murder anyone who slights Islam (the religion of peace). In Islam there is no repentance or forgiveness only vengence.

Not making a right or wrong call on the burning of this book. However, I see the West's response as you do topcat46, cowering in fear.
 
Altura Ct.

Altura Ct.

Veteran Member
Right on TC. I agree as well. Unfortunately most Christans today are new age universalist. Corrupted by Marxism. They believe that all ideas, religions and people are 'equal' or at the very least we have no right to defend ours and/or our way of life as we might offend. We should allow ourselves to be destroyed else we be viewed as bigots and haters. They believe that we should be nicer than Jesus. No matter that the people they defend would and will destroy us.

Indeed where are our Martels and Wallaces? Where are our fine apologist such as Chesterton or C.S. Lewis?
 
T

Troke

Deceased
Gee. To think we went through WWII and I don't remember getting invited to the ritual burning of Mine Kampf. Instead, we checked it out of the local library (oddly we had a copy, thought it was so dull, I never got through it) and read it.

Silly us. But having read the posts here, I realize that what we were was cowardly. :rolleyes:
 
F

FREEBIRD

Has No Life - Lives on TB
How are you so certain that any and all calls to abstain from burning the Koran are made only out of fear? Is is not possible that some people are attempting to follow Luke 6:27 ("But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you"), regardless of what Muslims may or may not do?

True Christian liberty calls us to follow Jesus despite threats and violence, or in the case of some of our fellow citizens, name-calling and ridicule.
 
Altura Ct.

Altura Ct.

Veteran Member
Relavant post from Freepers

T Roosevelt on Islam:

Christianity is not the creed of Asia and Africa at this moment solely because the seventh century Christians of Asia and Africa had trained themselves not to fight, whereas the Moslems were trained to fight.

Christianity was saved in Europe solely because the peoples of Europe fought. If the peoples of Europe in the seventh and eighth centuries, an on up to and including the seventeenth century, had not possessed a military equality with, and gradually a growing superiority over the Mohammedans who invaded Europe, Europe would at this moment be Mohammedan and the Christian religion would be exterminated.

Wherever the Mohammedans have had complete sway, wherever the Christians have been unable to resist them by the sword, Christianity has ultimately disappeared. From the hammer of Charles Martel to the sword of Sobieski, Christianity owed its safety in Europe to the fact that it was able to show that it could and would fight as well as the Mohammedan aggressor. .....

The civilization of Europe, American and Australia exists today at all only because of the victories of civilized man over the enemies of civilization because of victories through the centuries from Charles Martel in the eighth century and those of John Sobieski in the seventeenth century. During the thousand years that included the careers of the Frankish soldier and the Polish king, the Christians of Asia and Africa proved unable to wage successful war with the Moslem conquerors; and in consequence Christianity practically vanished from the two continents; and today, nobody can find in them any "social values" whatever, in the sense in which we use the words, so far as the sphere of Mohammedan influences are concerned.

There are such "social values" today in Europe, America and Australia only because during those thousand years, the Christians of Europe possessed the warlike power to do what the Christians of Asia and Africa had failed to do -- that is, to beat back the Moslem invader.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2586165/posts?page=1
 
T

topcat46

Inactive
FREEBIRD said:
How are you so certain that any and all calls to abstain from burning the Koran are made only out of fear? Is is not possible that some people are attempting to follow Luke 6:27 ("But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you"), regardless of what Muslims may or may not do?

True Christian liberty calls us to follow Jesus despite threats and violence, or in the case of some of our fellow citizens, name-calling and ridicule.
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Fear, ignorance, deference, accommodation, naive sincerity whatever the name or motiviation is viewed as submission to Muslims.

Once upon a time Christendom defended itself and it's right to exist as shown in my examples above. Not any more.

We are also supposed to proclaim the truth of Jesus Christ as the Son of God - something Islam rejects. Our true charity towards Muslims would be to convert them to Christianity.
 
F

FREEBIRD

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Burning the Koran is not the same as acting in self-defense or defense of the innocent (which is what Charles Martel, Sobieski, and the European defenders at Lepanto were doing). Burning the Koran is nothing but a childish insult, and childish behavior should be beneath the defenders of Christendom, shouldn't it?

"Our true charity towards Muslims would be to convert them to Christianity." 100% in agreement, but how is burning the Koran going to convert anyone?
 
David Nettleton

David Nettleton

Veteran Member
Altura Ct. said:
T Roosevelt on Islam:

Christianity is not the creed of Asia and Africa at this moment solely because the seventh century Christians of Asia and Africa had trained themselves not to fight, whereas the Moslems were trained to fight.

Christianity was saved in Europe solely because the peoples of Europe fought. If the peoples of Europe in the seventh and eighth centuries, an on up to and including the seventeenth century, had not possessed a military equality with, and gradually a growing superiority over the Mohammedans who invaded Europe, Europe would at this moment be Mohammedan and the Christian religion would be exterminated.

Wherever the Mohammedans have had complete sway, wherever the Christians have been unable to resist them by the sword, Christianity has ultimately disappeared. From the hammer of Charles Martel to the sword of Sobieski, Christianity owed its safety in Europe to the fact that it was able to show that it could and would fight as well as the Mohammedan aggressor. .....

The civilization of Europe, American and Australia exists today at all only because of the victories of civilized man over the enemies of civilization because of victories through the centuries from Charles Martel in the eighth century and those of John Sobieski in the seventeenth century. During the thousand years that included the careers of the Frankish soldier and the Polish king, the Christians of Asia and Africa proved unable to wage successful war with the Moslem conquerors; and in consequence Christianity practically vanished from the two continents; and today, nobody can find in them any "social values" whatever, in the sense in which we use the words, so far as the sphere of Mohammedan influences are concerned.

There are such "social values" today in Europe, America and Australia only because during those thousand years, the Christians of Europe possessed the warlike power to do what the Christians of Asia and Africa had failed to do -- that is, to beat back the Moslem invader.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2586165/posts?page=1
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The American concept of 'history',for the most part, reaches as far back as 'last Saturday'.
 
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