SCI God didn't create universe, Stephen Hawking argues

et2

TB Fanatic
God didn't create universe, Stephen Hawking argues

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/02/god-didnt-create-universe-stephen-hawking-argues/


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God did not create the universe, world-famous physicist Stephen Hawking argues in a new book that aims to banish a divine creator from physics.

Hawking says in his book "The Grand Design" that, given the existence of gravity, "the universe can and will create itself from nothing," according to an excerpt published Thursday in The Times of London.

"Spontaneous creation is the reason why there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist," he writes in the excerpt.

"It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper [fuse] and set the universe going," he writes.

His book - as the title suggests - is an attempt to answer "the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything," he writes, quoting Douglas Adams' cult science fiction romp, "The Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy."

He co-wrote the book with science writer Leonard Mlodinow.

His answer is "M-theory," which, he says, posits 11 space-time dimensions, "vibrating strings, ... point particles, two-dimensional membranes, three-dimensional blobs and other objects that are more difficult to picture and occupy even more dimensions of space."

He doesn't explain much of that in the excerpt, which is the introduction to the book.

But he says he understands the feeling of the great English scientist SIr Isaac Newton that God did "create" and "conserve" order in the universe.

It was the discovery of other solar systems outside our own, in 1992, that undercut a key idea of Newton's - that our world was so uniquely designed to be comfortable for human life that some divine creator must have been responsible.

But, Hawking argues, if there are untold numbers of planets in the galaxy, it's less remarkable that there's one with conditions for human life.

And, indeed, he argues, any form of intelligent life that evolves anywhere will automatically find that it lives somewhere suitable for it.

From there he introduces the idea of multiple universes, saying that if there are many universes, one will have laws of physics like ours - and in such a universe, something not only can, but must, arise from nothing.

Therefore, he concludes, there's no need for God to explain it.

But some of Hawking's Cambridge colleagues said the physicist has missed the point.

"The 'god' that Stephen Hawking is trying to debunk is not the creator God of the Abrahamic faiths who really is the ultimate explanation for why there is something rather than nothing," said Denis Alexander.

"Hawking's god is a god-of-the-gaps used to plug present gaps in our scientific knowledge.

"Science provides us with a wonderful narrative as to how [existence] may happen, but theology addresses the meaning of the narrative," said Alexander, director of The Faraday Institute for Science and Religion.

And Fraser Watts, an Anglican priest and Cambridge expert in the history of science, said that it's not the existence of the universe that proves the existence of God.

But, he said, "a creator God provides a reasonable and credible explanation of why there is a universe, and ... it is somewhat more likely that there is a God than that there is not. That view is not undermined by what Hawking has said."

Hawking's book will be published on September 7 in the United States and September 9 in the United Kingdom.

Posted by: Richard Allen Greene - Newsdesk editor, The CNN Wire
Filed under: Culture wars • Europe • Faith Now • United Kingdom
 

denfoote

Inactive
Poor Steven.
God gave him insights into His own mind and this is how Dr Hawking chooses to repay the Creator of the universe.
 

jba48

Veteran Member
Poor Steven.
God gave him insights into His own mind and this is how Dr Hawking chooses to repay the Creator of the universe.

Hawking is a brilliant, brilliant man. But you're right. Too bad he doesn't realize that very brilliance came from God.
 

LoupGarou

Ancient Fuzzball
Right now, they BOTH are writing each other out of their books.

Hawking may gain a few more bucks on the book sales from Atheists and others, but at the expense of eternal loss.


And, I'm willing to bet that sitting in front of the Alpha and Omega on His Throne on Judgement day one day in the near future (without his wheelchair or speech synthesizer), he may be VERY speechless...

Loup
 

Flippper

Time Traveler
And here I thought he was supposed to be smart.

He'll learn the truth, too bad it will likely be too late for him.
 

LoupGarou

Ancient Fuzzball
Hawking better watch where he runs his wheelchair...
(This guy had G_d on his side...)

Loup
 

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plantman

Veteran Member
The knee jerk reaction is, "My God rules!" and anyone who criticizes him is wrong....But maybe God is so smart he is using this person as a way to weed the chaff from the tares?
:ld:
 

kozanne

Inactive
Poor Steven.
God gave him insights into His own mind and this is how Dr Hawking chooses to repay the Creator of the universe.

I don't think so. Remember the other one gives 'good' ideas too.

And I laugh in Dr Hawking's face.

The day is coming. If Hawking NEVER believes it, it doesn't really matter. The day is coming.
 

kozanne

Inactive
The knee jerk reaction is, "My God rules!" and anyone who criticizes him is wrong....But maybe God is so smart he is using this person as a way to weed the chaff from the tares?
:ld:

Heh. I'm reading one of the Psalms today, written by Asaph, the lead singer in the Temple. He's talking about the rank unbeliever, how they say "How does God know?"......

And I say, live it up suckers. Imagine being raised up from the dead and told you have to go BACK. [see the book of Jude]
 

Kritter

The one and only...
The universe is a nice combination of repetitive symmetry and chaos = and both have a distinct purpose. Seems pretty well thought out to me.
 

marymonde

Veteran Member
Having a brilliant intellect does not necessarily mean you have wisdom. Wisdom is a gift from God. You must ask Him to give it to you.
 

Codeno

Veteran Member
Given the unfathomable size and scope of the universe, which in reality we know little to nothing about, and the timeline of it's existence, I never cease to be amazed when a mortal, earthbound human, here for mere decades at most decides that God had no part in any of this, or that there is no God at all.

It has taken most of our history as a species to do not much more than make it out of our own atmosphere, but on a fairly regular basis another of us announces that he or she has chosen to believe that there is no God. :spns: Fortunately, He believes in us.
 

Technomancer

Inactive
The idiot reporters that have interest in nothing more than getting attention to their stories as usual just make it up as they go.

Hawking just said that you don't HAVE to invoke higher powers when talking about the physics of the early universe. It's no more special than saying you don't have to call every lightning strike a special deus ex machina act of God.

The tiny part of the book they're trying to make a story out of (to distract us from REAL news and pretend that they aren't just ignoring the things that SHOULD be reported on) says more or less that some things are inevitable. If you are born you will die, it's just how things are; You don't have to blame or praise a Diety everytime someone has a heart attack or dies in a car accident.

This reminds me of a clockmaker analogy. The Perfect clockmaker just winds it up and the clock operates as designed without further interference. The less skilled or imperfect clockmaker winds it up, then has to keep adjusting it while it fails to operate as intended, has to keep oiling parts and file away spurs that freeze the mechanism, repairing or replacing parts that fail or were not designed properly.

The media succeeds once again in distracting people across the internet and in real life from the real news.
 

Red Sky

Southern Lady who loves the old paths
So, I wonder if he explains where gravity comes from. How can you look at anything in our world and not realize that it had to be created and planned. It's a miracle that a tiny seed can take up everything it needs from the ground and become a huge tree. The fact that we're here, we breathe and our hearts beat, that we hear and see and talk and feel and think -- such planning, such organization, what wonders these are and we have a God to thank for all that. I don't care what anyone says, no matter how brilliant they are supposed to be, they will never convince me that everything just happened without God. I certainly hope that Hawkings words were taken out of context because I thought he was more intelligent than that.
 

IceWave

Veteran Member
IMHO, science should stick to the "how" and not the "why", just as religion should stick to the "why" and not the "how". Between them they give a relatively complete picture.
 

denfoote

Inactive
IMHO, science should stick to the "how" and not the "why", just as religion should stick to the "why" and not the "how". Between them they give a relatively complete picture.

The "why" is the essence of science.

Why does the electron have attributes only when you look at it???

Why does an intense gravitational field bend light??

Why are matter and energy the same thing??

Answer these three questions and you will have completely described reality!!
 

Richard

TB Fanatic
Where's the proof for all of his assertions, it doesn't exist, they are only theories like the majority of speculative science.......
 

Richard

TB Fanatic
Why does the electron have attributes only when you look at it???

I thought this quantum nonsense had been disproved, the answer would be since the electron does not stand still you have a snapshot of its attributes when viewed, this does not prevent it always having attributes, electrons existed long before they were people to view them

Why does an intense gravitational field bend light??

It JUST does.
 

Sligo

Inactive
I'm not going to knock the man, because I try not to do that. Even when I was having a crisis of faith, I went up into the Smoky Mountains to sit quietly, and there was just no way I could deny the existence of the Almighty. He tapped on my shoulder and said, "This is one of the many gifts I give to you". This was the beginning of my path back. Praise be to God!
 

Blastoff

Veteran Member
Hawking says in his book "The Grand Design" that, given the existence of gravity, "the universe can and will create itself from nothing," according to an excerpt published Thursday in The Times of London.

"Spontaneous creation is the reason why there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist," he writes in the excerpt.

Ok, where did gravity come from?

When has it become science to start postulating anything comes from nothing? Doesn't that violate E = MC2 ?

"Spontaneous creation"? Really? That's science?
 

OddOne

< Yes, I do look like that.
Amusing how, for all his brilliance, Hawking has advocated explanations for the universe's existence that any child would find ludicrous. I watched a couple episodes of the show he did a few months back and in it his computerized surrogate voice detailed how the current hot theory explaining the origin of life on Earth is that it was seeded from space - proto-organisms hitched a ride on crystalline planetoids and meteors and enough of them hit the planet and made it through the atmosphere to seed it with life.

Quantum physics keeps hitting dead ends in its efforts to explain the precise mechanism behind the exact moment the universe came into being. The reason for that, to me anyway, is clear - when a deity brings it into existence there is no specific mathematically-describable mechanism one can point to that will explain that. I have long suspected that eventually science will reach the point where it accidentally proves the existence of God by uncovering incontrovertible proof of His creative action. After all, the more one studies creation the more probable it becomes that if there is a "god" you'll uncover proof of that fact.
 

Aardaerimus

Anunnaku
In the end, the lot of them are the same.

The prevalent attitude is:

Q: "How did it REALLY happen?"
A: *shrug* "We really have no idea, but we know it wasn't God."

Personally, I don't buy into organized religion; But, I can't for the life of me understand how any intelligent person can look at a single cell and accept the notion that, in all its complexity, it randomly assembled itself chemically, from "rock juice", complete WITH THE INFORMATION AND ABILITY TO REPRODUCE.

Without the ability to assemble information and reproduce, nothing could be passed on and a cycle of life could never begin...
 

Meggsie

Inactive
Who was the famous scientist who said, some time ago, that you cannot create nor destroy a substance?

(i.e. you can only change it)
(meaning: you can't make something out of nothing)

If some brilliant scientist could enclose an area that contains nothing (i.e. no atoms, dust, microbes etc etc) and then create something in that nothingness, I would believe Stephen Hawking, until then the jury is still out.
 

Ellen01

Inactive
Yet in all science, their "brilliance" cannot even cure the common cold nor tell you why aspirin works.

IMO, I think most of them are just trying to outsmart each other and bring glory to themselves. How sad.
 

GB_Cobber

Inactive
Perhaps one of you wise god fearing people can tell me(since you obviously know) Who is god? How did he create the universe? What did he create it with and from? How do you know he's male?

Surely, If you know God created the universe, you'll at least have met him and had a good chinwag.

So describe God!
 

Sligo

Inactive
Perhaps one of you wise god fearing people can tell me(since you obviously know) Who is god? How did he create the universe? What did he create it with and from? How do you know he's male?

Surely, If you know God created the universe, you'll at least have met him and had a good chinwag.

So describe God!

The God of my understanding is not someone I fear. I don't know "who" God is. I use the word "God" for lack of a better word. Sometimes I say Creator. I sometimes feel that God is a female, and sometimes a male. The God of my understanding is an all-encompassing spirit of love. I believe that Creation and Evolution theories can fit together because out of nothing came the one-celled creatures, which I believe were created by God. They then evolved. I can tell you about my Creator because I have been touched by "him" and have felt the all encompassing love of something/someone so much greater than me in my life. I can "see" God in the waves of the Ocean, or the wind in the leaves of the trees, or the flight of a bird. I felt God on the days I gave birth to my children, and then again when my grandchildren were born. I don't go to a building to visit God. I visit anywhere I please, anytime I want. I have absolute faith in my Creator, and know without a doubt that I am loved and valued, as are my loved ones and all of His/Her Creations. I had to be led back to God, and He did the leading. I was just open to it. Be open, stay away from the Fundamentalists and Dogmists, and you, too can be found by God. It's about Faith and Love.
 
Poor Steven.
God gave him insights into His own mind and this is how Dr Hawking chooses to repay the Creator of the universe.

He's immobile, permanently confined to a wheelchair and increasingly unable to even communicate his thoughts. I presume there might be some spite toward his Creator, but he exemplifies the genius thereof. It's all about mind over matter, not vice versa.
 
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Perhaps one of you wise god fearing people can tell me(since you obviously know) Who is god? How did he create the universe? What did he create it with and from? How do you know he's male?

Surely, If you know God created the universe, you'll at least have met him and had a good chinwag.

So describe God!

God is the Author of the universe Who man conveniently forgets about while trying to play god.
 
In the beginning there was pure energy without form. Per the First Law of Thermodynamics, that energy is neither created nor destroyed, it simply changes form. So what is the source of transformation? Science posits dumb luck. Religion posits divine intelligence. How you choose to describe and explain the universe we observe is up to you, and that might be the greatest proof of God there is.
 

Lone Wolf

Lives on TB
Stephen, has hit the wall that a lot of scientists hit.

And he doesn't know why.

I'll pray for his eternal soul, sole ? I never could get that right.

If enough folks pray for him it may save him a lot of trouble later

lw
 

mattbert

Veteran Member
Hawking can explain his opinion to God when he meets Him.

In Romans, it says creation will leave people WITHOUT EXCUSE. Imagine being someone so brilliant, but, left in sheer befuddlement when they meet their Creator.

It is a fearful thing to be in the hands of the Living God....
 

Uhhmmm...

Veteran Member
Stephen, has hit the wall that a lot of scientists hit. And he doesn't know why.

I'll pray for his eternal soul, sole... If enough folks pray for him it may save him a lot of trouble later.

You cannot petition the lord with prayer.

So sayeth the Doors. They sang it, I heard it, that settles it.

.
 
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