REL GENRL Have We Anointed An Unworthy Shepherd?

Ender

Inactive
Mormon Doctrine teaches: the Constitution is an inspired document; Joseph Smith prophesied that the day would come when it would be in danger and "hang like a thread"; he counseled that all who loved the Constitution should be ready to save it, if necessary. Mormons look forward to a Zion on earth where all who wish can hold all things in common and there shall be no poor among them; this is not, nor has it ever been, mandatory

Ender, you know that the LDS faith is much more than what's in the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Joseph Smith's teachings. This is the difference between Christians and Mormons; Mormons view the church president as a living prophet from the same lineage of Jesus Christ. Mormon doctrine constantly changes or gets slightly tweeked through the prophets 'revelation'. For example: when the church was threatened with losing tax exempt status for their view on blacks, the president of the church had a revelation all of a sudden to change policy - you could go on and on with convenient revelations going all the way back to JS.

The Mormon beliefs that Sully posted are a collection of various statements of revelation that have been handed down by church presidents (prophets) over the years. So, the question is: are these what the church believes or are they not? Most Mormons don't even know.

One more interesting tidbit: right before JS was killed, he compared himself to Mohommed; he was willing to convert by the sword if necesssary.

I suggest reading 'No Man Knows My History' by Fawn Brodie. 'Rough Stone Rolling' is another good biography but it's written by a Mormon so it glosses over some of the uglier sides of Smith's history.

No Man Knows My History is a piece of carp. If you want to spread anti-Mormon drivel then by all means recommend shite like this. Most of the silly stuff you are quoting came from more anti-Mormon drivel.

The Prophet of the LDS Church DOES NOT claim to directly related to Jesus.

And BTW- Mormons are CHRISTIANS.
 

conundrum

Inactive
Somebody there mentioned Jesus. :)

Glenn Beck - Pre Restoring Honor Rally with Pastor George Lucas Part 1 of 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYyQFvbA4u0


In repentance and rest is our salvation.
Isaiah 30:15


I would have liked to see a talk with an honest depiction what this country would look like if Jesus Christ was actually running it. Hmmm.
 

dunebuggy

Senior Member
Amen Brother Ben

I WAS THERE.... on the Mall.

Beck and Palin called for America to return to God and to the Christian values of Faith, Hope and Charity.

Basically, then, it was a big Kumbaya led by an employee of the NWO's leading proponent, Rupert Murdoch, with everyone joining hands and singing hosannas. And Palin is NWO super-A-OK too.

Did they talk about how to restore the banking system, to throw the bankers in jail, to stop killing Afghani and Iraqi children, and leave those countries? Or was it a lot of hot air, as usual?

Did any of these bozos warn for years of the housing bubble, the entire collapse of the banking system, mortgage system? Was there any practical point in this exercise?

And did they tell you to keep voting Republican?
 

ready2go

Veteran Member
No Man Knows My History is a piece of carp. If you want to spread anti-Mormon drivel then by all means recommend shite like this. Most of the silly stuff you are quoting came from more anti-Mormon drivel.

The Prophet of the LDS Church DOES NOT claim to directly related to Jesus.

And BTW- Mormons are CHRISTIANS.

Fawn Brodie was a highly respected biographer; perfect? no - nobody is, but her work was diligently researched with the proper citations. It's my understanding that the church doesn't even dispute her work. Herein lies the problem for the LDS: If it's written by a non-Mormon it's automatically drivel. If it's written by a Mormon, there's too much faith and not enough scholarly research in it.

The Mormon church presidents are responsible for the beliefs that non-Mormons believe about the church as many of these statements came right from their own mouths. I asked a missionary at the St. George Temple visitors center what she thought about this. She said that sometimes they are speaking for themselves, "as men", and sometimes they are speaking as a prophet of the church. I then asked her how she knows which is which. She said that if it's spoken during the general conference that it's prophecy, if not, it's just their opinion. Is she wrong? If so, why is she working as a missionary at a temple?

If Glen Beck is a true Mormon, he views non-Mormons as gentiles and overall, has a bit of contempt for them. Glen needs to decide if he's arguing for the Constitution or he's arguing for the LDS faith. I like Glen Beck, always have but I don't think it will be just Mormons that save the U.S., it will be people who love freedom and the Constitution regardless of what faith they belong to.

ETA: I do think that Mormons are Christians; a different sect just as Catholics, Protestants, Greek Orthodox, etc.... I was trying to point out differences, not imply that Mormons don't love Christ.
 

timbo

Deceased
I was at another forum and read a thread similar to this.

It was sad.

There were people there and people here that are concentrating on the Mormon religion and Beck.

I've read testimonies there and here of people that actually went to the rally.

No where have I read the Beck even mentioned his religion at the rally.

I don't understand then why he can't speak to us of HONOR.

What connection is his religion to Honor within our country?

Someone has got us all racing in the wrong direction.......and it isn't Beck.

Just sad.
 

Laurane

Canadian Loonie
So Beck is LDS.......deal with it or not......he could be Catholic and there would be SOMEBODY not happy with that. Did anyone see the large group of ministers standing supporting what he was doing.....of all religions.

It was NOT a political meeting, it was a call to return to faith and honor......and involved people of any political stripe or religious tenets.

If you want to make this about GB's religion and Mormonism - take it to the Religion sig.
 

LMonty911

Inactive
No Man Knows My History is a piece of carp. If you want to spread anti-Mormon drivel then by all means recommend shite like this. Most of the silly stuff you are quoting came from more anti-Mormon drivel.

The Prophet of the LDS Church DOES NOT claim to directly related to Jesus.

And BTW- Mormons are CHRISTIANS.

Ender- sounds like you know your stuff on this topic. Would you please suggest an on-line reference that better explains some of this stuff and helps refute the misinformation that's being brought up and spread around?? I would rather have the truth and deal with it as it is. Beck is definitely OK in my book after what he did this past weekend, it was amazing. So I am not surprised he is being attacked.
 

Lone Wolf

Lives on TB
Does anyonehere take issue with WHAT he said, or is it all about his Mormen faith or lack of it?

Beck is ok in my book, and our Lord will use who he will when it suits Him.

lw
 

workerbee

* Winter is Coming *
Mr Beck himself linked to the blog post below, and tweeted:
“The ONLY guy to actually get it!”

http://twitter.com/glennbeck/status/22765474598



http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/15295.html

I Think I See What Glenn Beck is Doing

Posted By Lexington Green

The Glenn Beck rally is confusing people.

Why?

He is aiming far beyond what most people consider to be the goalposts.

Using Boyd’s [1] continuum for war: Material, Intellectual, Moral.

Analogously for political change: Elections, Institutions, Culture.

Beck sees correctly that the Conservative movement had only limited success because it was good at level 1, for a while, weak on level 2, and barely touched level 3. Talk Radio and the Tea Party are level 3 phenomena, popular outbreaks, which are blowing back into politics.

Someone who asks what the rally has to do with the 2010 election is missing the point.

Beck is building solidarity and cultural confidence in America, its Constitution, its military heritage, its freedom. This is a vision that is despised by the people who have long held the commanding heights of the culture. But is obviously alive and kicking.

Beck is creating positive themes of unity and patriotism and freedom and independence which are above mere political or policy choices, but not irrelevant to them. Political and policy choices rest on a foundation of philosophy, culture, self-image, ideals, religion. Change the foundation, and the rest will flow from that. Defeat the enemy on that plane, and any merely tactical defeat will always be reversible.

Beck is unabashed that God can be invoked in public places by citizens, who vote and assemble and speak and freely exercise their religion. They are supposed to be too browbeaten to do this. Gathering hundreds of thousands of them to peaceably assemble shows they are not. But showing that the people who believe in God and practice their religion are fellow-citizens who share political and economic values with majorities of Americans is a critical step. The idea that these people are an American Taliban is laughable, but showing that fact to the world — and to potential political allies who are not religious — is critical.

Beck is attacking the enemy at the foundations of their power, their claim to race as a permanent trump card, their claim to the Civil Rights movement as a permanent model to constantly be transforming a perpetually unjust society.

He is nuking out the foundations of the opposition’s moral preeminence, the very thing I proposed in this post [2].

Ronald Reagan said we would not defeat Communism, we would transcend it.

Beck is aiming to have America do the same thing to its decaying class of Overlords, transcend them.

Beck is prepping the battlefield for a generation-long battle.

He is that very American thing: A practical visionary.

See, simple.

Restore pride and confidence to your own side, and win the long game.

As Ronald Reagan also said, there are simple solutions, just no easy solutions.

God bless America.
 

workerbee

* Winter is Coming *
Glenn Beck commented on the blog post above (by Lexington Green)on his radio show.

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/45215/
Transcript:

September 2, 2010 - 13:28 ET

Glenn Beck: This guy gets it

GLENN: All right. So this guy, Lexington Green, I'm assuming that's not his real name, writes in Chicagoboyz.net: I think I see what Glenn Beck is doing.

I think this is the only guy that really gets it. The Glenn Beck rally is confusing people. Why? He is aiming far beyond what most people consider to be the goalposts. Using Boyd's continuum for war, which, you are all for that one, right, Pat?

PAT: Sure. Boyd's continuum? How many times have we talked about Boyd's continuum?

GLENN: Okay. Well, let's make it once. Material, intellectual, and moral. He is using for political change elections, institutions and culture. Beck sees correctly that the conservative movement has only had limited success because it's good at Level 1, the elections, for a while. Weak at Level 2, institutions. And barely touched Level 3, culture. Talk radio and the tea party are Level 3 phenomena, popular outbreaks which are blowing back into politics. Someone who asks what the rally has to do with the 2010 election is missing the point. Beck is building solidarity and cultural confidence listen to this. This is it.

PAT: A smart guy.

GLENN: Beck is building solidarity and cultural confidence in America, its Constitution, its military heritage, its freedom. This is a vision that is despised by people who have long held the commanding heights of the culture, but it is obviously alive and kicking. Beck is creating positive themes of unity and patriotism and freedom and independence, which are above mere political or policy choices but not irrelevant to them. Political and policy choices rest on a foundation of philosophy, culture, self image, ideals, and religion. Change the foundation and the rest will flow from that. Defeat the enemy on that plain and any mere tactical defeat will always be reversible. Beck is unabashed that God can be evoked in public places by citizens who vote and assemble and speak freely to freely exercise their religion. They are supposed to be too brow beaten to do this, gathering hundreds of thousands of them to peacefully assemble shows they are not. But showing that to the people who believe God and practice their religion are fellow citizens who share political and economic values with majorities of Americans is a crucial step. The idea that these people are an American Taliban is laughable, but showing that fact to the world and potential political allies who are not religious is critical. Beck is attacking the enemy at the foundations of their power. Their claim to race as a permanent trump card, their claim to the Civil Rights Movement as a permanent model to constantly be transforming a perpetually unjust society. He is nuking out the foundations of the opposition's moral preeminence, the very thing I proposed in this post. Ronald Reagan said we would not defeat communism; we would transcend it. Beck is aiming to have America do the same thing to its decaying class of overlords: Transcend them. Beck is prepping the battlefield for a generation long battle. He is that very American thing: A practical visionary. See? Simple: Restore pride and confidence to your own side and win the long game. As Ronald Reagan also said, there are simple solutions, just no easy solutions. God bless America.

That guy gets it. That's the only way. For anybody in the press that doesn't say

PAT: Well, it's either that or you are trying to build a Mormon theocracy in America.

GLENN: Shhh.

PAT: I'm sorry.

GLENN: Keep that down. Don't say that.
 

workerbee

* Winter is Coming *
Youtube video of last nights show; he covers the issue we're discussing on this thread, and the blog post by Lexington Green:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XILIVgo3gfU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ1pBFozCN8

Disclaimer: I heard him discuss this on radio and tv yesterday, but links I've provided I found on Lexington Green's blog post.

It is my belief our entire discussion on this thread has been widely discussed, and Glenn addressed it during the radio and tv shows yesterday.
 

Laurane

Canadian Loonie
PAT: Well, it's either that or you are trying to build a Mormon theocracy in America.

GLENN: Shhh.

PAT: I'm sorry.

GLENN: Keep that down. Don't say that.


giggle.....now that is funny.......giggle.
 

workerbee

* Winter is Coming *
Below is an excerpt from Lexington Green's Blogpost, he is commenting on Glenn's discussion of his blogpost on his radio and tv show yesterday.
Check out the link for the full story:

http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/15295.html

UPDATE IV: Beck-O-Lanche!

Great thanks to Glenn Beck for the mighty call-out on his TV show. He quotes this post here starting at 12:10, and continuing here.

This has been an interesting couple of days. I saw a video of the Restoring Honor event, which struck me favorably. I looked at some commentary about it, and saw that no one was getting it, since everybody seems stuck looking through a straw at second-to-second issues, and narrow politics, where Beck was clearly aiming at big, culture-changing action. This is not, historically, unheard of. There is nickel-and-dime politics, and there is big, who-we-are politics. The second type only comes along once in a while, but when it does it changes the whole game. Beck sees correctly that we are living in an unusual era of major change and he is acting accordingly. I started to whip off an email to some of my usual group of pals about these penetrating insights, but it got too long. So I put it out on the blog, figuring our regular readers might like it, and didn’t think about it anymore.

Later on I saw the post was getting an unusual number of comments, indicating that it was circulating around. I was out of town in a hotel room, working, and would look at the blog from time to time since there was a continual flow of comments. I responded to a few and made sure everyone was playing well with each other. (For some reason, it is always the posts you just type from the gut and dash off that get the most interest.) Then at 10:22 p.m. our pal PurpleSlog left a comment that Beck had tweeted the post, and said “The ONLY guy to actually get it!” Whoa. How crazy is that? The tempo of incoming comments increased, but I finally had to get some sleep. Today went fine at work, and I was able to check up from time to on my iPhone. At 8:22 a.m. a commenter named Jason Wilder commented that Mr. Beck had mentioned the post on his radio show. Cool. More comments were flowing in. Then, Jonathan calls and tells me someone from the Glenn Beck Program wanted to talk to me. I was in my car on the way to the airport when a nice lady named Jenna talked to me for a few minutes. I said of course Mr. Beck could read it or say whatever he wanted about the post on his TV show.

When he did, the incoming traffic spiked and took the blog down. Crunch! The power of a Beck-O-Lanche!

We stand in awe of such vast and primal forces.

I got Jonathan on the phone, he got the hosting company on the phone, and they fixed it. I was getting a real-time feed from several friends via Facebook and email, on my phone, about the show. I got in line to get on the plane, and only then did I notice that in Louisville they have the TVs on Fox! I could have watched it.

Too funny.

So, OK, Lex. Why are you telling me all this? Surely it cannot merely be smug self-congratulation?

Ahem. Moi? Certainly not!

Let us consider the larger lessons. The ability of like-minded people to find each other, to spread ideas, to inform each other, is getting better and better all the time. This little episode is one of many examples of a critical and very hopeful fact:

Today’s tools favor our side in this struggle, which I am calling the Insurgency.

The Insurgency is based on individual freedom, autonomous decision-making, spontaneous order, voluntary association, open-mindedness, adaptiveness, transparency, networks rather than hierarchies. It is at bottom a fun loving and joyful and open spirit. In many cases this is based on religious faith. (I raise my hand.) In others it is based on love of human potential and creativeness, or other positive factors. This model works. And it works better and better with the tools of today and tomorrow.

The Opposition is based on the outdated legacy systems of the Industrial Era. It is based on assembly lines, bureaucracies, railway timetables, rationing, coercive and rule-bound action, mandatory schedules, forcing people into niches and categories, stripping them of autonomy, and turning people into petty little beasts subject to political control. That is the vision of the Opposition: People standing in line, people asking permission, people filling out forms, people without cars, without money in their pockets, who need a political favor to get anything done. It is based on nostalgia for the old-time “Big Unit” America that worked tolerably well in its day, the period roughly 1900-1950. (Michael Barone wrote about this recently.) But a system of centralized control that barely worked in its heyday is utterly unsuited to the world of today. It is increasingly falling on its face. Our institutions no longer work, because they are ill-suited to who we are, what we need, and where we want to go.

This top-down vision lives on because it is based on the self-flattering delusion that just because someone had good SAT scores he is qualified to tell millions of citizens how to live, from his desk. (Hayek could tell you why that is wrong.) The Soviet commissars couldn’t do it, and our smartypantses can’t do it, either.

And of course there are cynical, rent-seeking people who benefit from the regulatory leviathan, and don’t want it to change. All too many in this category are Republicans.

The Opposition’s model is a failure. Doubling down, as Mr. Obama has tried to do, will only dig the hole deeper. The American people have figured that out. They are looking for ways to wind up the legacy systems of the past, and move on. They are going to succeed, but the process won’t be pretty.

The Insurgency is the wave of the future. We are going to wage this struggle on the moral, intellectual and material plane, with a smile, with charity, without rancor, with confidence. Anyway, that’s how I think we should play it.

The American way of life is deeply rooted, it is alive, and it is heading for a new Renaissance. No kidding. You heard it here first. We are going to go through a rough patch, then we are going to win, hands down.

This little episode is one shiny tile in a massive mosaic that we are building together.

We have the tools.

We have our history.

We have our sense of humor.

We have each other.

We can change hearts and minds, then change ideas, then change the politics.

A fair wind is beginning to blow.

It’s going to be good.

God bless America.
 

mikalasukala

Inactive
I Told You The Stage Was Set By Glenn Beck For He and Rev. Jim Wallis To Start A Dialogue Based on Shared Humanism and Paganism?
By Brannon S. Howse
http://www.worldviewweekend.com/worldview-times/article.php?articleid=6479

On my radio program on 8-30 and 31, 2010, I predicted that Rev. Jim Wallis and Glenn Beck could actually find common ground because they share many of the same philosophies whether they knew it or not. However, I never expected that Wallis would release an open letter to Glenn Beck in less than a week that would acknowledge how close these two really are in their worldviews.

I told my radio audience that the thesis and antithesis of the Hegelian Dialectic Process had been set up between Beck and Wallis and all we need is for the two to synthesis their two worldviews together through the shared ideas of paganism, humanism and good-works, among other ideas, and then a new thesis would be created. I never thought it would only take five days for Wallis to admit how much he and Beck agree and to request that a dialogue begin.

Even if Beck and Wallis do not get together for a formal meeting, the bridge that is possible has been acknowledged and many will jump on this idea in their own minds because of their hunger for unity. This also confirms my prediction that in the coming days this merger will occur whether with or without Beck and Wallis.

Here is part of what Wallis said in his open letter to Beck:

I think we got off on the wrong foot. I listened to your speech last Saturday and heard a lot of things that we agree on. In fact, I have used some of the same language of our need to turn to God, and the values of "faith, hope, and charity" (love). What I would like to find out, and others would too, is what you mean by that language. Until last weekend, you have consistently described yourself primarily as an entertainer, and the public has known you as a talk show host. But last Saturday, you sounded more like an evangelist or revivalist on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial. I know we disagree significantly on many issues of public policy, but you said that people can disagree on politics and still agree on basic values and try to come together. Maybe we should test that. Instead of my being up on your blackboard and a regular target of your show's rhetoric, why don't we finally have that civil dialogue I invited you to months ago? Your speech on the Mall suggested and even promised a change of heart on your part, so why don't we talk? Here are a few things I think we could talk about.

First, I've been asked by people in the media if it matters that you are a Mormon. I unequivocally answer, no, it does not. We don't want more anti-Mormon bigotry any more than we want the anti-Muslim bigotry now rising up across the country. By the way, you should speak to that (against it). On Saturday you talked about the fact that our nation has some scars in our past. I think one of those scars is the historical persecution and bigotry that many Mormons have faced, as well as Catholics, Jews, and Muslims. But, as you said, instead of dwelling on the bad things of the past, we need to learn from them and look to the future. The best way to do that is to make sure we all stand for religious liberty and tolerance, and are careful not to denigrate anybody else's faith tradition, experience, or language. If you are ever in need of an evangelical Christian to speak out against anti-Mormon sentiment directed at you or others, I am here to help.

And let's talk about salvation. You have emphasized that you believe strongly in personal salvation, as opposed to "collective salvation." As an evangelical Christian, I also believe deeply in personal salvation-it is the foundation of my faith. But we need to ask ourselves, what are we saved for? Is salvation just about getting a pass into heaven? Is it just for us? Or is it also for the world, and being a part of God's work and purposes in the world today?

Before, I thought you were just another cable news talk show host. But now, you are using the language of a spiritual and even a religious leader. You acted as though you now want people to look to you for that kind of spiritual leadership…

http://www.christianpost.com/articl...tter-to-glenn-beck-from-jim-wallis/index.html
(You should really read the entire letter from Wallis to Beck at the link above.)

Don't tell me that a one-world religion and a one-world government under a one-world leader are not possible and that many "conservatives" and "religious" leaders and pastors will not go along. The Bible predicted these things would happen and we are now watching the pieces fall into place. It may be months, it may be years, but the pieces are falling into place.

I wrote an article on Saturday, 8-28-10 after watching Glenn Beck's "spiritual" revival on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial. The article was titled: "Glenn Beck and Jim Wallis Are Both Pushing Social Justice and an Earthly Kingdom". In that article I wrote:

These next few statements will be shocking to some and many will not have the Biblical knowledge and discernment to accept the truth of what I am about to present. Social justice is a man-centered attempt to create heaven on earth.

Reverend Jim Wallis is pushing a liberal, leftist, man- centered, Godless, good works, social justice and Beck is pushing a conservative, right-wing, Godless, man-centered, good works, social justice. Both Wallis and Beck want a revolution in America and they both are basing their revolution on humanistic thinking. One is coming from the left and one is coming from the right. Both Wallis and Beck are both pushing for an earthly kingdom based on humanism and paganism mixed with their individual versions of social justice. I believe that Wallis and Beck both reject the God of the Bible and the salvation that is only found through the Jesus Christ of the Bible. In the end Beck and Wallis are on the same team as Jesus Christ Himself declared in John 8:42-47.

Eventually a world leader will appear that will acknowledge that the Becks and Wallis of the right and left are really not that far apart. In an article I released on August 30, 210 I wrote:

Perhaps sooner, rather than latter, the world will be in massive economic, political, and spiritual chaos and a leader will step on to the world stage and this anti-Christ will call for the religions of the world to unite and embrace spirituality. He will declare that he is not about politics but about bringing peace, unity, faith, hope, charity, stability, freedom, and prosperity under the common god of all religions. This world leader will perform counterfeit miracles signs and wonders and those who reject Biblical truth will follow him [2 Thessalonians 2:9-12] and embrace his plan for restoring honor.

Please understand, I am not a prophet, nor am I boasting because my predictions are now becoming real possibilities. I can only boast in the Cross of Jesus Christ [Galatians 6:14] and every good and perfect gift comes from the Father above [James 1:17].

I have prayed for months that the Lord would give me wisdom and knowledge to understand the times as I study His Word. I pray for this because I want to know what God would have me to do and how to respond as did the Tribe of Issachar in I Chronicles 12:32. Several years ago, God placed it on my heart to prepare and warn the true members of the Bride of Christ about the unholy alliances that are being created so they are not deceived and do not take part.

As Christians, we are commanded to expose that which is contrary to the Word of God; [2 Corinthians 10:5], including false teachers and prophets.

Calling out of false teachers is preformed many times in the scriptures. In Romans 16:17-18--Paul writes, "I beseech you, brethren, mark them who cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ but their own body, and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the innocent."

My goal is for you to read this article and join me in studying your Bible, praying for knowledge, and wisdom, and then join me up on the wall as watchmen that are seeking to warn and protect God's people from the spiritual deception that is coming from "conservative" talk show hosts, false teachers and even "Christian" leaders.

===========================

Wretched TV:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3edngzmR0BI&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAx1yvSZB70&feature=player_embedded
 
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