ECON Pm prices falling?

I notice the price of silver has dropped. Last time I looked it was down to $15.09. That's about $5 lower than last month. I'm not knowledgeable on pm's so can someone please explain to me why the price is going down? Is it connected to the price of oil?

Dont look a gift horse in the mouth.

That means: BUY

PMs have become Fiat too.

That is the sad part of all the PM Hawkers that haven't figured out what is going on yet. They think there is safety and perhaps large gains to be made in PMs. THERE IS NOT. It is manipulated as much as the dollar is.

Central banks drop gold and sometimes even faux gold into the markets and back them with "IOU's" so they can make believe a reserve is still in tact contracting or expanding the market at will. GOLD AND SILVER ARE FIAT!

TidesofTruth said:

PMs have become Fiat too.

That is the sad part of all the PM Hawkers that haven't figured out what is going on yet. They think there is safety and perhaps large gains to be made in PMs. THERE IS NOT. It is manipulated as much as the dollar is.

Central banks drop gold and sometimes even faux gold into the markets and back them with "IOU's" so they can make believe a reserve is still in tact contracting or expanding the market at will. GOLD AND SILVER ARE FIAT!

Click to expand...

Really?


What has happened in the past year is that paper PM's, not the actual stuff has controlled the market. They have been moving in sync with the Stock market. Stocks go down so do paper PM's.

There was a push on to stop this and bust this open, but it failed because the Commodities Exchange changed the rules. In essence Buyers trying to stop this put in several purchase contracts and demanded physical metal. Knowing the PM's weren't there, it would bust things wide open if they failed to deliver.

Well this is just not done as it is a highly manipulated market buying and selling paper receipts, which are fiat (not the PM's themselves) would end their game.

So they changed the rules, that regardless if you bought and wanted physical delivery of PM's they could opt to not deliver it if they decided it would screw things up.

So there you have it. People tried to stop the scam and the scammers changed the rules because they didn't have enough metal to cover their butts.

Bottom line is that there is not enough metal out there to satisfy demand or even what is supposedly being traded.

Exactly so now is a good time to get the physical stuff in hand.

Paper prices are one thing. Paper is not metal. There's an endless supply of paper. The supply of metal is limited. There are those who would have you believe they are one and the same. They are not.

Take advantages of pullbacks in paper prices while they last as an opportunity to buy metal at paper prices. Buy metal. Take delivery.

This sort of thing has happened before, but the number of times it can keep happening is limited.

See the 2008 article at http://seekingalpha.com/article/93307-decoupling-of-physical-gold-and-paper-gold-prices for an example from the past.

When the biggest banksters in the world are meeting in secret in out-of-the-way places with unprecedented levels of security, you can expect odd things to happen. Never fear- there's worse to come.

And do not forget- lead is also a precious metal. Make sure you have plenty, and the appropriate dispensers for it as well.

dd

eta- if you can manage video, watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lrNggfbEVE&feature=player_embedded You can see the 'source' at http://globalperspectives.info/ , the video linked here is Commentary : Global Perspectives Update ~ February 8, 2010.
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http://jsmineset.com/2010/02/09/unprecedented-challenges-in-financial-history/print/

Unprecedented Challenges In Financial History
Posted: Feb 09 2010 By: Jim Sinclair Post Edited: February 9, 2010 at 12:26 am
Filed under: General Editorial

My Dear Extended Family,

I doubt there has ever been a time in financial history when there has been challenges of this magnitude.

This is not business as usual in any form.
When have financial meetings been so top secret?

When has the military cordon off financial meetings?

When have F-18s, F-22s and French Rafales provided air support (as the Swiss did for the Davos seminar) for two central bank meetings in the last few weeks as the USA and Australia did?

Don’t accept terrorism as an excuse for everything that remains unexplained. There are so many lies and so much misinformation out there that the task of figuring out what is real is a daunting task.
I implore you to go for safety in everything you do. How can you go wrong hunkering down?

Do not speculate.

You cannot out trade these people nor can you read their intentions by charts. Both are impossibilities.

Do not deal on borrowed money. Secure you and yours. Take delivery of your precious metals and share certificates.
We are in unchartered seas of international financial turmoil. The mega rich have no loyalty to anyone or anything.

I know some of them, made one of them from scratch, and I assure you would put their mothers in a microwave for the right price. This is a financial world war taking place behind top secret meetings that are deciding our fate while not even knowing they are out of control.

I can’t change this but I can do my best to protect you.

Respectfully,

Jim

Good luck trying to buy a physical oz of silver for less than $20.

The gold/silver ratio goes down in a boom and up in a bust.

It's being manipulated downwards because some big shot wants to buy and their buddies are depressing the price for them as a favor. When they are done entreating all of their pals the price will shoot through the ionosphere.

K-

imaginative said:

Good luck trying to buy a physical oz of silver for less than $20.

Click to expand...

Just copied and pasted from Apmex site

GGK






2004 Silver American Eagles - Brilliant Uncirculated
As low as $3.49 over spot!
(Orders in quantity of 20 or more come in mint tubes) Video | More

Quantity: Add 1 to Cart
Sell Price $19.30
100 - 499 for $19.10 ea
500 or more for $18.80 ea
Item #: 150
Availability:
Credit Card & Bank Wire Orders Ship In (1-3) Bus Days.


2003 Silver American Eagles - Brilliant Uncirculated
As low as $3.49 over spot!
(Orders in quantity of 20 or more come in mint tubes) Video | More

Quantity: Add 1 to Cart
Sell Price $19.30
100 or more for $18.80 ea
Item #: 1052
Availability:
Credit Card & Bank Wire Orders Ship In (1-3) Bus Days.

Hilarious! Where is everybody? What planet are you on?

1. The value of the (gasp, choke, gurgle) $ goes up, the number needed to buy PM's goes down.

2. Vice-Versa.

3. The value of the (gag, vomit) $ has been going up vis-a-vis some other major currencies.


Simple. Odd nobody notices.

What planet are you on?

This one...

dd
==========================
http://www.usfunds.com/investor-resources/frank-talk/

Fear, Gold and the Dollar

By Frank Holmes
CEO and Chief Investment Officer
U.S. Global Investors
Feb 9, 2010

The U.S. dollar was up last week against the euro out of fear of how debt problems in Greece and elsewhere in Europe will be resolved, and as a result gold had a tough week.

The dollar’s rally appears to be a short-term safe haven move, rather than a response to improving economic conditions in the U.S.

In fact, Friday’s report of a net loss of 20,000 jobs in December (the expectation was for a net gain in employment) and that many thousands more would-be workers have given up looking for jobs is evidence that the economy remains somewhat weak.

This weakness makes it less likely that the Federal Reserve will play it safe by not raising interest rates, and more likely that Congress and the Obama administration will pump more financial stimulus money into the system.

Both keeping rates near zero and expanding the monetary base are negative for the dollar, and thus positive for gold. We’ve seen that after a period of money-supply tightening in December and January, it appears that money is loosening again.

The federal deficit is pegged at more than $1 trillion this year and more than $8 trillion through 2019 - this will slowly weigh on the dollar. On top of that, the TARP money being repaid by banks is not being removed from the monetary base - we shouldn’t be surprised if that money is used as a stimulus booster shot ahead of the 2010 midterm elections.



Our gold-dollar oscillator (above) shows that the dollar is approaching being overbought over the past 60 trading days, while the gold is showing signs of being oversold.

The magnitude of the current spread between gold and the dollar typically means that both could be close to a price reversal - dollar heading back and gold back up toward the mean.

In the 1990s, a strong dollar was associated with a strong U.S. economy, but the current one-month dollar rally has been accompanied by a drop in the S&P 500. With most of the world’s economic growth coming in emerging markets, many U.S. companies are relying on overseas sales to drive revenue and profit growth. A stronger dollar hurts U.S. companies trying to thrive in the global marketplace.

This is clearly evident in the illustration below. Here you can see that the world has changed and a strong stock market is aided by a weaker dollar.





Frank Holmes

Looks like they decided at lunch to run it back up. Silver up 45 cents the last hour and gold is starting up again too.

LtPiper said:

Looks like they decided at lunch to run it back up. Silver up 45 cents the last hour and gold is starting up again too.

Click to expand...

flight to safety; the EU has "decided to help" Greece by extending them low interest loans. Simple forex calculations dictate this will decrease the value of the dollar vs. the Euro.

1. The entire planet is deleveraging.

2. Most of the debt is in USD.

3. More USD are needed to pay the debt.

4. Less than enough to meet demand (which is even larger than the unbelievable supply) means the value of the USD will go up relative to other currencies and PMs.

5. This means global liquidity is down. People sell other assets to get USDs, thus increasing demand.

imaginative said:

Good luck trying to buy a physical oz of silver for less than $20.

Click to expand...

Just yesterday I bought some Silver Maples for $18/oz and some silver rounds for $16.70. Cash at the local shop.

Gitche Gumee Kid said:

Just copied and pasted from Apmex site

GGK






2004 Silver American Eagles - Brilliant Uncirculated
As low as $3.49 over spot!
(Orders in quantity of 20 or more come in mint tubes) Video | More

Quantity: Add 1 to Cart
Sell Price $19.30
100 - 499 for $19.10 ea
500 or more for $18.80 ea
Item #: 150
Availability:
Credit Card & Bank Wire Orders Ship In (1-3) Bus Days.


2003 Silver American Eagles - Brilliant Uncirculated
As low as $3.49 over spot!
(Orders in quantity of 20 or more come in mint tubes) Video | More

Quantity: Add 1 to Cart
Sell Price $19.30
100 or more for $18.80 ea
Item #: 1052
Availability:
Credit Card & Bank Wire Orders Ship In (1-3) Bus Days.

Click to expand...

Availability is questionable as stocks are depleted at their site. Many 1 oz silver eagles are available for future delivery; testimony to the increasing scarcity of silver bullion coins unless you want to pay the high price of proof coins or accept lower priced culls when available.
http://www.apmex.com/Category/160/Silver_American_Eagles_Uncirculated_2010__Prior.aspx

TidesofTruth said:

PMs have become Fiat too.

That is the sad part of all the PM Hawkers that haven't figured out what is going on yet. They think there is safety and perhaps large gains to be made in PMs. THERE IS NOT. It is manipulated as much as the dollar is.

Central banks drop gold and sometimes even faux gold into the markets and back them with "IOU's" so they can make believe a reserve is still in tact contracting or expanding the market at will. GOLD AND SILVER ARE FIAT!

Click to expand...

Cool! I spent 30+ years in the printing business, but now there's a way to print gold and silver, not just paper, but the real stuff. Alchemists rejoice!

Sorry, but physical gold and silver are NOT fiat! The prices may be manipulated, but if you hold the metal, you own it!

Jonas Parker said:

Cool! I spent 30+ years in the printing business, but now there's a way to print gold and silver, not just paper, but the real stuff. Alchemists rejoice!

Sorry, but physical gold and silver are NOT fiat! The prices may be manipulated, but if you hold the metal, you own it!

Click to expand...

You may own it but its intrinsic value is only based on the presence or absence and extent of a crisis and/or penalty for said ownership.

In the short run you may be able to make trades here and there bouncing from currency to currency to PM to currency and if your really intuitive make a modest return but. . .

The End Game is no barter nor trade outside the System. It will be strictly and capitally enforced.

TidesofTruth said:

You may own it but its intrinsic value is only based on the presence or absence and extent of a crisis and/or penalty for said ownership.

In the short run you may be able to make trades here and there bouncing from currency to currency to PM to currency and if your really intuitive make a modest return but. . .

The End Game is no barter nor trade outside the System. It will be strictly and capitally enforced.

Click to expand...

You're right of course. I'm selling my PMs today and going back to a safe investment in US dollars. How could I ever have been so silly?

Jonas Parker said:

You're right of course. I'm selling my PMs today and going back to a safe investment in US dollars. How could I ever have been so silly?

Click to expand...

Well depending on what you bought it at and other factors that may be good to do if you are prepared to move quickly to another currency or PM as conditions permit. You could make some modest gains or even modest losses doing that.

Well here are some facts:

Last year this date silver spot price was $ 12.83

and some months earlier 10-28-08 it was at $ 8.79 an ounce.

So by comparison, we're still pretty high.

Jus' keepin' it real.

MM

Milk-maid said:

Well here are some facts:

Last year this date silver spot price was $ 12.83

and some months earlier 10-28-08 it was at $ 8.79 an ounce.

So by comparison, we're still pretty high.

Jus' keepin' it real.

MM

Click to expand...

Here are some facts.

If I had bought an ounce of gold 1n 1980 and held it til now and sold it today I would have lost $1,577.00 in real money. To keep up with the buying consumer power of what a troy ounce was worth in 1980 it was $2,652.00 in today's dollar.

It hasn't even kept up with inflation.

TidesofTruth said:

Here are some facts.

If I had bought an ounce of gold 1n 1980 and held it til now and sold it today I would have lost $1,577.00 in real money. To keep up with the buying consumer power of what a troy ounce was worth in 1980 it was $2,652.00 in today's dollar.

It hasn't even kept up with inflation.

Click to expand...

This can manipulated by selectively picking beginning and ending years for comparison.

So... don't buy PMs if you don't want PMs.

Cherrypicking dates to prove 'it went up' or 'it went down' just says you can read a long term chart. What does YOUR PORTFOLIO say about your investment choices? That's what matters.

dd (that $300 gold still feels pretty good to me)

TidesofTruth said:

Here are some facts.

If I had bought an ounce of gold 1n 1980 and held it til now and sold it today I would have lost $1,577.00 in real money. To keep up with the buying consumer power of what a troy ounce was worth in 1980 it was $2,652.00 in today's dollar.

It hasn't even kept up with inflation.

Click to expand...

Well we could compare that to any car bought new off the lot and driven away. So it may devalue a bunch, but I still feel I need it.

If you don't need it, don't buy any, no one is forcing you.

Milk-maid said:

Well we could compare that to any car bought new off the lot and driven away. So it may devalue a bunch, but I still feel I need it.

If you don't need it, don't buy any, no one is forcing you.

Click to expand...

Hey if you want to buy PMs certainly do so. No one is stating not to either but be aware of what is going on and exactly what the End Game is.

...be aware of what is going on and exactly what the End Game is.

I'd be interested in hearing what you think is really going on, and which end game you anticipate. 25 words or less will do, don't need a whole book. Links/references will be fine too if it saves you time/trouble.

dd

(Heh) WSJ had an article on measuring the DOW against the inflation rate. Not too good. Turns out there is not a real sure investment anywhere, not even gold. Like pork bellies and stocks, buying gold only works if you can buy low and sell high.

Lots of people have difficulty figuring that out.

BTW, I think you could pick any year between 1980 and maybe 2000 or so and you would have been better off in an S&P fund than gold. That's a long time to make a killing in gold.

Dozdoats said:

...be aware of what is going on and exactly what the End Game is.

I'd be interested in hearing what you think is really going on, and which end game you anticipate. 25 words or less will do, don't need a whole book. Links/references will be fine too if it saves you time/trouble.

dd

Click to expand...

Without much detail Global currency. No trade or barter outside of it. Strictly controlled. Global governance. Global taxation. PMs will be illegal. They will use any means, faux crisis, war, faux science, religion to bring it about. We have seen pieces of it throughout history. It should come as no suprise and yet it will.

TidesofTruth said:

Without much detail Global currency. No trade or barter outside of it. Strictly controlled. Global governance. Global taxation. PMs will be illegal. They will use any means, faux crisis, war, faux science, religion to bring it about. We have seen pieces of it throughout history. It should come as no suprise and yet it will.

Click to expand...

This goes hand in hand with the mark of the beast.

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.


There's a reason the Bible tells us to lay up treasures in heaven, not on earth...

Mat 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
Mat 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
Mat 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

The old rule of thumb "Don't play with more than 10% than you can afford to lose" is a good rule of thumb.

People with gold and silver can be taken to the cleaners too. They always have been, they always will be.

If the circumstances arise which the purchase of PM's is supposed to hedge yourself against actually happens, PM's will be far more risk than asset, and basically unusable.

If you make sure you have the more important fundamentals covered first, then best of luck to you.

I freely admit to considering 'gold sellers' being 'snakeoil salesmen' though.

eta: Blackjeep "Mat 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. "

Yep, couldn't agree more. I don't worship the stuff. The only 'gold' I worship is the love of God.

That'll do me just fine thanks.

Ah, so you're betting the globalistas/banksters can pull it off then. OK.

So you think it's too late already, the fix is in, those of us holding PMs won't be able to get out from under before the big clampdown happens?

And you think that a bunch of powerful, greedy people, who have already demonstrated that too much is not enough, that stealing trillions of dollars does not satisfy their greed, that destroying the American middle class is not damage enough, that they want every dollar they can separate from every individual in their grasp... you really think the greedy bastards will let people hang onto stocks, bonds, real estate, retirement accounts etc BUT NOT PMs?

If "endgame" is a carbon currency one world government bankster dominated neofascist hellhole... won't they try to carry out their plans for a 90% or more reduction in the population of useless eaters when they get control?

Won't there be any kind of resistance anywhere? No free markets (what statists insist on referring to as "black markets") left anywhere?

The only reason for having ANY investment is to transfer accumulated value safely through time and space. If there's nowhere to move the value TO... what's there to do with it? Why bother with ANYTHING if that's the case?

Or am I misunderstanding?

dd

Why do people buy PMs then worry about the ups and downs of the market? PMs are a hedge against the very worst economic disaster that MAY occur. If you’re buying PS to be a day trader, then your motivation is skewed.

Does anybody here Honest to God believe that the banksters (or whomever) are going to come after our personal piddling little amounts of PM's. ?

What for? I want to control you, I don't need to do that.

All I got to have is the power to allocate energy and I will dictate where you live, what you live in, what your job is, how you get to that job, what you eat and what you wear. Now that is power! I don't need to dink around with PM's.

I might not see it but it is assuredly coming to a neighborhood near you while most of you are still alive.

I need to let you all know about a wonderful place where you can get all the gold and silver coins you want , and the BEST DEAL out there. We have had nothing but the best service , and most importantly THE BEST PRICES out there you can find. Just took care of some business there today , and believe me I have checked everywhere, and they so far can't be beat.
Just call Ryan Denby direct ( a personal friend of mine) at 1-800-551-0107 at Austin Rare coins. You need to let him know I gave you this referral, " just say Gail told me" and you will pleasantly be surprized. When you think you can't get it for less than $20, well be surprized because I just did, and for a lot less. Yeah for me, and hopefully yeah for you to. Carry on my friends, and happy buying. NOw is the time for sure.... just my 2 cents.
ALLMYCATS

Dozdoats said:

Or am I misunderstanding?

dd

Click to expand...

Yeah I think so.

In a very poor area here, where people had very little (only a few years back). A guy went into a pub, spent a few hours there, and offered to buy everyone a drink.

When he pulled his wallet out, people saw how much was in it, and he got very badly beaten up for 'taking the p!$$' and 'insulting them'. eta: they didn't take his money either.

Now just WHERE do you think you going to be able to produce and use this stuff with any degree of safety?

I do not agree that these crooks and criminals can win in the end. They can't they are a self defeating reality. But that might mean a new Dark Ages.

The last one, had vast amounts of PM stashes left uncollected so long, families died and forgot where they were.

Being able to do stuff and having stuff to help you do that stuff (e.g. clay pots for cooking, sword making, plough making, weaving, leatherworking) all are far more important (to me anyway).

Just what sort of Society are you expecting to throw this gold into?

If it's actually 'Mad Max' then forget it.

Sure, have a bit for insurance if you can afford it, but keep some common sense, and don't go nuts when there's likely better things to spend your money on.

I would really rather have netmaking stuff even (and that's CHEAP!).

imaginative said:

Good luck trying to buy a physical oz of silver for less than $20.

Click to expand...

Unless they are both sheeple and desparate. Ten a.m. this morning I was walking out of my northside store when a well dressed and spoken woman walked in and bought $45.00 worth of merchandise She wanted to pay with it from a bagful of half-dollars she had. The clerks I had on staff were new so I stayed and completed the transaction with them.

The half dollars were all 1956-1959 Ben Franklins. 90% silver, approx. .36 oz each. 91 in total. Some Ds (Denver mint) but mostly Ss (San Francisco mint).

I accepted them all as payment, smiled, told her "thank you, come bacK and see us!" and watched her drive away in her shiny new Jaguar.

there are countries where the dollar is king, and others where it means little. but gold and silver are recognized everywhere. at least for now.

a wise steward of his resources will have some of this and some of that. land, tools, food, livestock, buildings: ie: traditional sources of wealth.

PMs are for converting that kind of wealth into an easily transportable kind of wealth. and at least it's fireproof.

but as Buckminster Fuller pointed out, real wealth is represented by the incredible technologies and knowledge base we have accumulated and the amazing spectrum of energies, materials, tools, and concepts we are able to work with, constantly increasing the reach and breadth of our abilities and understanding of the Universe around us. consequently, a well-provided larder of wealth would include all sorts of skills and tools, books and blueprints, sources of energies and materials, and a large network of associates able to cooperate with oneself in creating whatever one needed or wanted from the efforts of the one or many because of the incredible array of currently available talents and skills.

and the more i think about it, the more i realize that most all of us have no idea what real wealth is. is it not, most fundamentally, our own health and having loving relationships with those we trust and value?

A bump while waiting for ToT...

dd