Nuke attack on DEECEE? DEECEE says it is prepared!

Troke

Deceased
Nuclear attack on D.C. a hypothetical disaster


April 16, 2008


By Gary Emerling - A nuclear device detonated near the White House would kill roughly 100,000 people and flatten downtown federal buildings, while the radioactive plume from the explosion would likely spread toward the Capitol and into Southeast D.C., contaminating thousands more.

The blast from the 10-kiloton bomb — similar to the bomb dropped over Hiroshima during World War II — would kill up to one in 10 tourists visiting the Washington Monument and send shards of glass flying the length of the National Mall, in a scenario that has become increasingly likely to occur in a major U.S. city in recent years, panel members told a Senate committee yesterday.

"It's inevitable," said Cham E. Dallas, director of the Institute for Health Management and Mass Destruction Defense at the University of Georgia, who has charted the potential explosion's effect in the District and testified before a hearing of the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs. "I think it's wistful to think that it won't happen by 20 years."

The Senate committee has convened a series of hearings to examine the threat and effects of a terrorist nuclear attack on a U.S. city, as well as the needed response.

Yesterday's panel stressed the importance of state and local cooperation with federal authorities in the wake of an attack, assistance from the private business sector to aid recovery and the dire need to boost the capabilities of area hospitals.

They recommended expanding emergency personnel by training physicians like pharmacists and dentists to aid in all-hazards care, monitoring the exposure of first responders to radiation and clearly disseminating information to the public.

"The scenarios we discuss today are very hard for us to contemplate, and so emotionally traumatic and unsettling that it is tempting to push them aside," said Sen. Joe Lieberman, Connecticut independent and committee chairman. "However, now is the time to have this difficult conversation, to ask the tough questions, and then to get answers as best we can and take preparatory and preventive action."

Ashton B. Carter, co-director of the Preventive Defense Project at Harvard University, said the likelihood of a nuclear attack on U.S. soil is undetermined, but it has increased with the proliferation of weapons by Iran and North Korea and the failure to secure Russia's nuclear arsenal following the Cold War.

"For while the probability of a nuclear weapon one day going off in a U.S. city cannot be calculated, it is almost surely larger than it was five years ago," Mr. Carter said.

Mr. Carter described a more destructive blast effect. He said the ground-based detonation of a 10-kiloton bomb would result in near-total devastation within a circle about two miles in diameter, or the length of the Mall.

The zone of destruction is projected to be less than that of Hiroshima, where the bomb was dropped from an airplane and detonated above the city.

A similar blast in a more densely populated city than the District, such as Chicago or New York, would result in an injury toll up to eight times higher. A plume a few miles long could also dole out lethal doses of radiation, Mr. Carter said.

However, the experts emphasized that the explosion would not impact most of a major city and that in many cases, residents could remain safe by not evacuating immediately and clogging area roadways.

"It is also expected that, due to lack of information getting to the public, many people will try to flee by car or on foot, often in the wrong direction, again exposing themselves to high levels of radiation, as vehicles provide virtually no protection," Mr. Carter said.

Mr. Dallas said a major problem facing most cities is a lack of available hospital beds for victims of burns that would result from a nuclear blast. He said up to 95 percent of such victims would not receive potentially life-saving care.

"We're completely underprepared," he said. "Most of them will die."

Mr. Dallas said the District also faces a unique challenge because of the way the city is configured geographically: A wind blowing west to east would gradually spread radiation from the explosion into the low-income neighborhoods of Southeast, where there are limited health care options available and only one hospital.

Area officials have spent millions of dollars in recent years to develop evacuation plans and stockpile emergency supplies after a 2006 study by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security said local preparation for a disaster was "not sufficient."

Darrell L. Darnell, director of the District's Homeland Security and Emergency Management Agency, said the city is continuing to develop its "emergency preparedness capabilities" and has numerous methods of informing residents of actions they should take, including through text messages, voice alerts and Web sites like www.dc.gov and http://72hours.dc.gov.

"We are confident that the District is prepared to respond to a catastrophic incident affecting the District," Mr. Darnell said.

Still, Mr. Dallas said the majority of victims in a nuclear explosion will likely have to fend for themselves in the first hours after an attack.

"These people are going to be on their own," he said after the hearing. "There's no white horse to ride to the rescue."
 

TIK

Inactive
Nuclear attack on D.C. a hypothetical disaster


April 16, 2008


By Gary Emerling - A nuclear device detonated near the White House would kill roughly 100,000 people and flatten downtown federal buildings, while the radioactive plume from the explosion would likely spread toward the Capitol and into Southeast D.C., contaminating thousands more.

The blast from the 10-kiloton bomb — similar to the bomb dropped over Hiroshima during World War II — would kill up to one in 10 tourists visiting the Washington Monument and send shards of glass flying the length of the National Mall, in a scenario that has become increasingly likely to occur in a major U.S. city in recent years, panel members told a Senate committee yesterday.

"It's inevitable," said Cham E. Dallas, director of the Institute for Health Management and Mass Destruction Defense at the University of Georgia, who has charted the potential explosion's effect in the District and testified before a hearing of the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs. "I think it's wistful to think that it won't happen by 20 years."

The Senate committee has convened a series of hearings to examine the threat and effects of a terrorist nuclear attack on a U.S. city, as well as the needed response.

Yesterday's panel stressed the importance of state and local cooperation with federal authorities in the wake of an attack, assistance from the private business sector to aid recovery and the dire need to boost the capabilities of area hospitals.

They recommended expanding emergency personnel by training physicians like pharmacists and dentists to aid in all-hazards care, monitoring the exposure of first responders to radiation and clearly disseminating information to the public.

"The scenarios we discuss today are very hard for us to contemplate, and so emotionally traumatic and unsettling that it is tempting to push them aside," said Sen. Joe Lieberman, Connecticut independent and committee chairman. "However, now is the time to have this difficult conversation, to ask the tough questions, and then to get answers as best we can and take preparatory and preventive action."

Ashton B. Carter, co-director of the Preventive Defense Project at Harvard University, said the likelihood of a nuclear attack on U.S. soil is undetermined, but it has increased with the proliferation of weapons by Iran and North Korea and the failure to secure Russia's nuclear arsenal following the Cold War.

"For while the probability of a nuclear weapon one day going off in a U.S. city cannot be calculated, it is almost surely larger than it was five years ago," Mr. Carter said.

Mr. Carter described a more destructive blast effect. He said the ground-based detonation of a 10-kiloton bomb would result in near-total devastation within a circle about two miles in diameter, or the length of the Mall.

The zone of destruction is projected to be less than that of Hiroshima, where the bomb was dropped from an airplane and detonated above the city.

A similar blast in a more densely populated city than the District, such as Chicago or New York, would result in an injury toll up to eight times higher. A plume a few miles long could also dole out lethal doses of radiation, Mr. Carter said.

However, the experts emphasized that the explosion would not impact most of a major city and that in many cases, residents could remain safe by not evacuating immediately and clogging area roadways.

"It is also expected that, due to lack of information getting to the public, many people will try to flee by car or on foot, often in the wrong direction, again exposing themselves to high levels of radiation, as vehicles provide virtually no protection," Mr. Carter said.

Mr. Dallas said a major problem facing most cities is a lack of available hospital beds for victims of burns that would result from a nuclear blast. He said up to 95 percent of such victims would not receive potentially life-saving care.

"We're completely underprepared," he said. "Most of them will die."

Mr. Dallas said the District also faces a unique challenge because of the way the city is configured geographically: A wind blowing west to east would gradually spread radiation from the explosion into the low-income neighborhoods of Southeast, where there are limited health care options available and only one hospital.

Area officials have spent millions of dollars in recent years to develop evacuation plans and stockpile emergency supplies after a 2006 study by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security said local preparation for a disaster was "not sufficient."

Darrell L. Darnell, director of the District's Homeland Security and Emergency Management Agency, said the city is continuing to develop its "emergency preparedness capabilities" and has numerous methods of informing residents of actions they should take, including through text messages, voice alerts and Web sites like www.dc.gov and http://72hours.dc.gov.

"We are confident that the District is prepared to respond to a catastrophic incident affecting the District," Mr. Darnell said.

Still, Mr. Dallas said the majority of victims in a nuclear explosion will likely have to fend for themselves in the first hours after an attack.

"These people are going to be on their own," he said after the hearing. "There's no white horse to ride to the rescue."

Just wanted to make sure we all caught that...or am I being overemotional again?
 

Micro

Veteran Member
"We are confident that the District is prepared to respond to a catastrophic incident affecting the District," Mr. Darnell said.

Yeah, that someone else (Feds, MD, VA, Red Cross) will come in and do everything for them.:rolleyes:
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
WIth all due respect to the posters here who are working in THAT PARTICULAR Preparedness Trench (and y'all know who you are), the quote as to being READY was some of the funniest carp I've seen posted on the Internet in a LONG time..
 

TheSearcher

Are you sure about that?
WIth all due respect to the posters here who are working in THAT PARTICULAR Preparedness Trench (and y'all know who you are), the quote as to being READY was some of the funniest carp I've seen posted on the Internet in a LONG time..

Actually, let's turn that around a bit and think about it. Not all that long ago, DC types would have considered survival impossible. Nuclear winter, MAD, all that stuff.

Now they think that prepping will work out? :hmm:

Perhaps there is hope that Civil Defense will be reborn as a national priority. The Russians think it is important, we should think likewise.
 

Zulu Cowboy

Keep It Real...
I highly doubt that ANY city is really prepared for such an event. And there is a lot of truth in this article, like when they say that people will be ON THEIR OWN, for some period of time. You have to try and think through how such a scenario might play out.

If there is a nuclear attack on a U.S. city, the United States is sure to respond with a nuclear salvo of their own. And when that happens...other countries are going to do the very same.

There is no such thing...as a limited nuclear war!

Quite frankly, I highly doubt that people will be able to log onto some website to get pertinent info on what to do. And I also doubt that the yield of such a weapon will be limited to 10 Kilotons! Most weapons in both the Russian and Chinese arsenals are in the 100-200 Kiloton range. Of course, this panel was only discussing a 'sunny-day' scenario, of a terrorist nuke, being detonated at ground level. And although it's possible, it's MORE LIKELY that the United States would face nuclear destruction of many cities, with much larger weapons...in response to an attack on the Iranians.

The were correct, when they said that the hospitals would be totally overwhelmed. I work in disaster preparedness at a major metropolitan hospital, here in Nashville...and I can tell you point-blank...WE ARE NOT READY!!!

Do yourself a favor...educate yourself on how to protect your family from the effects of a nuclear attack...BEFORE it happens!

Once it does, the learning curve is going to be mighty steep!

Zulu Cowboy


- - - - - - - - -

'What To Do If A Nuclear Disaster Is Imminent'

How to use radiological instruments - (Survey Meters/Dosimeters)

Fallout Protection - What to know and do about nuclear attack

Nuclear War Survival Skills, by Cresson Kearney

Radiation Safety in Shelters

FEMA - The Effects of Nuclear War

CDC - Acute Radiation Syndrome - A Fact Sheet For Physicians

CDC - Explosions and Blast Injuries
 
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Mrs Smith

Inactive
Did anyone else see "Cities Underground" on the History channel the other night? It showed multiple nuclear fallout shelters underground, built for the government elite. They're very elaborate, and go miles upon miles into the ground underneath Washington. I think it's on every Monday evening now.
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
Nuclear attack on D.C. a hypothetical disaster...

Not to me. Somehow, I just can't see a downside to it, should such an attack occur. However, it should be carefully timed to coincide with a joint session of Congress, in which the prez is speaking. Think of the hundreds of political elites that we could be permanently rid of. They just waste oxygen anyway.

:dvl1: ;)

JMHO - YMMV
 

jed turtle

a brother in the Lord
had a dream last nite. only managed to remember that it seemed to be about NYC. before "the end". somehow just seemed to "know" that it wouldn't be much longer.

how bad would it be for the rest of the country if NYC got creamed?

at least its 7-9 million residents wouldn't become a sudden source of overflowing refugees on the surrounding states/ regions.

maybe it's time to send up a prayer for their souls.
 

Oldotaku

Veteran Member
Dennis, the biggest downside of nuking Washington D.C. would be the loss of national heritage. The Smithsonian museums on the mall, the Archives, and the Library of Congress would be a tragic loss. I would hope the boost in freedom caused by the destruction of the political infrastructure would balance out the losses.

Remember those "meteor hits Earth" summer movies a few years back? At the end of one, the president addresses a news conference in the midst of a devastated Washington, saying "We will rebuild". I didn't feel hope at that, I felt threatened.
 

Worrier King

Inactive
Nuclear attack on D.C. a hypothetical disaster...

Not to me. Somehow, I just can't see a downside to it, should such an attack occur. However, it should be carefully timed to coincide with a joint session of Congress, in which the prez is speaking. Think of the hundreds of political elites that we could be permanently rid of. They just waste oxygen anyway.

:dvl1: ;)

JMHO - YMMV

State of the Union would be a good time. Afterwords would be a perfect time to push States Rights, rid ourselves of FEDS in the States, and try to end the anti-American globalist corporatocracy control thats currently liquidating and weakening the U.S., and to finally end the generations long planned demise that the Federal government supports and is the main component of.

You could expect the bad guys to act up, so maybe we could take out some trash also.

Death to traitors and D.C. is the main rats nest.
 

dissimulo

Membership Revoked
I get tired of hearing "It's inevitable." If it's truly inevitable, I guess we ought to just dismantle the city and farm out the various government functions to other places. If it is inevitable, we certainly ought to stop paying the salaries of the innumerable government bozos who are telling us it is inevitable.

Earthquakes are inevitable, tornados are inevitable, and hurricanes are inevitable. Floods, fires, and the expansion of kudzu are inevitable.

Nuclear terrorism is not inevitable.
 

Worrier King

Inactive
I get tired of hearing "It's inevitable." If it's truly inevitable, I guess we ought to just dismantle the city and farm out the various government functions to other places. If it is inevitable, we certainly ought to stop paying the salaries of the innumerable government bozos who are telling us it is inevitable.

Earthquakes are inevitable, tornados are inevitable, and hurricanes are inevitable. Floods, fires, and the expansion of kudzu are inevitable.

Nuclear terrorism is not inevitable.

It is if it advances certain parties private agenda's. That's generally what they are telling us, they are pretty blatant about their treason anymore. For example, how can you march off to defend the nation in a WOT while you leave the borders wide open and protect the invaders? And the indoctrinated "patriots" just can't process that obvious fact and the dozens of other blatant realities like them. They are the majority DUH voters, living in a American that no longer exists. These are the people whom, with their votes, are played as useful idiots to aid and abet our national extermination.

The dem/repub party is NOT the U.S., in fact they have become the antitheses and the enemy of the U.S. and constitution and you and I. Whether people realize that or not.
 

Walker10

Veteran Member
First of all an attack on Washington isn't inevitable. It's possible, perhaps even likely, but not inevitable. The US does have some cards to play in forestalling an attack. We can make it known, if we haven't already and I do believe that we have, that an attack by a country, its surrogates, or terrorist groups it harbors, will be responded to in the harshest manner possible. After our attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, there should be no illusion that we mean what we say.

As to the preparedness of the government, they must be assuming that they will have advanced warning of an attack so they can get their pathetic butts out of Dodge. It’s the only way that statement seems to make sense to me. Either that or the ‘nuclear attack’ is of the dirty bomb variety. Like Zulu Cowboy said no city can or is prepared for this type of event.

One thing about the flow of refugees out of the area…there may not be as many as we might think, especially if they’ve been contaminated. I believe that if an attack actually occurred and the chance that many contaminated refugees would start filtering out of the area, the military might deploy a short lived virus to kill off those refugees in order to prevent the spread of nuclear material outside the attack zone. It sticks in my head, and I don’t have a link to provide, that the military had a plan like this developed in case of an uncontrollable spread of disease.

An attack like this would absolutely devastate the country, socially, economically, politically, but it would be a chance to start anew and rebuild the country along Constitutional lines that were meant to be in place all along. In the unlikely event that this attack should take place, that is the moment that we patriots should sieze, it would be the perfect time to make our move in the Constitutions defense.
 

shane

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Nuclear attack on D.C. a hypothetical disaster

"It is also expected that, due to lack of information getting to the public, many people will try to flee by car or on foot, often in the wrong direction, again exposing themselves to high levels of radiation, as vehicles provide virtually no protection," Mr. Carter said.

Still, Mr. Dallas said the majority of victims in a nuclear explosion will likely have to fend for themselves in the first hours after an attack.

"These people are going to be on their own," he said after the hearing. "There's no white horse to ride to the rescue."
The ignorance of simple basic radiation protection principles amongst the un-trained civil population fending for themselves in those first few hours is plenty long enough for them to be unnecessarily exposed to lethal doses of radiation.

We've been hammering home the need to turn back on national Civil Defense training of the public to Senators and Congresscritters since before we'd written and published The Good News About Nuclear Destruction back in August 2006. In one-on-one meetings with three of them last year, that had oversight of DHS, they all agreed it was needed, but said it was a tough sell to the WH as they saw launching such dire public training there as "bad for business".

On a positive note, via WorldNetDaily frequently re-running our "Good News" article, it has been widely read and posted across the net, and some think-tank and govt studies have even picked up on some of it's themes and proposals.

- Shane
 

shane

Has No Life - Lives on TB
More from this morning's Washington Post...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/15/AR2008041502969.html?hpid=sec-health

Risk of Nuclear Attack on Rise
More Emergency Prep Could Be Done, Experts Tell Senate

By Mary Beth Sheridan
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, April 16, 2008; B04

Concerned that not enough attention is being paid to the risk of a nuclear attack, a Senate committee yesterday looked at the consequences of such a terrorist strike in Washington -- and said that more could be done to save lives.

A hearing, called by the Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs, featured charts showing the horrific effects of a small nuclear device detonating near the White House. It was the panel's third session in recent months on the threat of a nuclear explosion.

"The scenarios we discuss today are so hard for us to contemplate and so emotionally traumatic that it is tempting to push them aside," said Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman (I-Conn.), the panel's chairman. "However, now is the time to have this difficult conversation, to ask the tough questions, then to get answers."

The committee summoned witnesses yesterday who said the risk of such an attack on U.S. cities has grown in the past five years because of the spread of nuclear technology and the growth of a global terrorist movement.

"I definitely conclude the threat is greater and is increasing every year with the march of technology," said Cham E. Dallas, director of the Institute for Health Management and Mass Destruction Defense at the University of Georgia.

Yet the experts agreed that even such a disaster didn't constitute the doomsday scenario imagined during the Cold War. Most District residents would survive. And "much could be done to save lives" if the government made the right preparations in advance, said Ashton B. Carter, co-director of the Preventive Defense Project at the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University.

At the committee's request, Dallas prepared a report on the effects of a small nuclear device exploding near the White House. A 1-kiloton device, which could fit into a suitcase, could kill about 25,000 people, he said. A 10-kiloton explosive, which could be hidden in a van, could kill about 100,000, Dallas said.

The 10-kiloton blast would release fatal doses of radiation in the immediate area and destroy almost all buildings within a half-mile radius, he said. The intense heat would burn people for many blocks and spark fires. Windows would shatter for miles, Dallas testified, gesturing to a color-coded map that showed damage as far out as Union Station.

The danger wouldn't be limited to those in the blast area. A radioactive plume would start drifting from the blast point, subjecting those in its path to lethal levels of radiation, Dallas said. The plume's direction would be determined by weather conditions.

Dallas's model envisions a 10-block-wide "death plume" moving east, the direction the wind typically blows in Washington. It billows down Constitution Avenue, reaching Benning Road NE in 30 to 60 minutes.

"With proper communication, people can flee from the plume area," Dallas said, noting that they can walk or run from what will likely be a narrow band of high danger. But, he added, authorities need to "put more effort" into testing their ability to swiftly alert those in danger.

Most people outside the blast zone or the path of the plume should stay in their homes for at least the first few days after an attack, and will probably suffer limited health problems, the experts said.

Dallas predicted that the local medical system would be overwhelmed, but said that authorities could save lives with better preparation. For example, Dallas suggested training medical professionals such as pharmacists and veterinarians to provide burn care and other assistance. Community volunteers living near Howard University Hospital, which would be outside the blast zone, could be organized in advance to clean wounds and help in other ways, he said.

"Burn care is a nightmare. And we're completely unprepared," Dallas said, noting that the entire country only has specialized burn facilities for 1,500 patients. "Ninety-five percent of burn victims will not receive care. And most of them will die."

Asked for comment, emergency-response officials in the region said they had made great strides in preparing for a catastrophic event.

Chris Geldart, who oversees the National Capital Region office at the Department of Homeland Security, said local hazmat teams can quickly run data to predict the path of a radiological or chemical cloud. Homeland Security recently held an exercise with the governors of Maryland and Virginia, as well as D.C. Mayor Adrian M. Fenty (D), on how to inform the public about a dangerous plume.

As for casualties from a nuclear device, "the amount of burn victims that you're going to have would stress any system," Geldart said. The National Disaster Medical System would be activated to whisk patients to other states for treatment, he said. "There's been a lot of planning that has happened within this region, especially at the federal level, for the 10-kiloton."

Darrell Darnell, head of the city's homeland security office, said in a statement, "We are confident that the District is prepared to respond to a catastrophic incident."

He said that the city's emergency communication tools include a reverse-911 calling system, text alerts, city Web sites and the Emergency Alert System, which sends messages over radio and television.

Geldart disagreed with an idea raised by Carter at the hearing: having the federal government assume control after a nuclear explosion. "The federal government is not going to wrest control from a state, as long as state and local governments are capable of responding," Geldart said.

Staff researcher Meg Smith contributed to this report.
 

mbabulldog

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Zulu, great links, thanks for sharing the info. I'm going to be printing these out at work when nobodys watching! This is the kind of stuff that I may even stay late one night and print out.

Just a heads up; the third link isn't working. (Fallout protection-What to know and do about nuclear attack)
 

vestige

Deceased
I could not locate a link on the article posted but that fact is really irrelevant. Many of the issues discussed are reasonably addressed and only a few are spun.

The repercussions of such an event are predictable to a degree.

Two guys with a junk car and a rifle virtually shut down a large portion of the east coast a few years ago. During that time I had a friend and his entire family visit here from D.C. just to “get some relief from the pressures caused by the snipers.” I am sure they were not the only family in the area making changes they thought would improve their lives.

Less than two dozen terrorists (conspiracy theories placed aside here) used airplanes to attack major U.S. buildings. The country went into panic mode and changed forever.

I have often said that when the first nuclear device is detonated in a city in CONUS pandemonium will ensue. Once pandemonium starts predictability dies.

Imagine you are in one of the many suspected “targeted cities.” You are at work or wherever and learn that a large portion of NYC has suddenly vaporized due to a huge blast, type/origin “unclear.” Being of sound mind and body and recalling the events of September 11 you will undoubtedly take some action to ensure the security of your family. Most likely these actions will not consist of watching television while you drink coffee and discuss the issue with coworkers. A few minutes later you learn that a similar event has occurred in Washington D.C.

A single device will ensure that your trip home will be a struggle of monumental proportion. A second device will, almost assuredly, ensure that your trip home will consist of foot travel. Whether or not we, as a country, retaliate militarily against some suspected foe is not a factor. Life from that point on will resemble nothing that presently exists and will be an immense struggle for every occupant of the country public and private.

The well intended plans of government at all levels will rapidly vaporize as the public realizes that the situation in the country has defaulted to every man for himself. Public employees at all levels will experience the same emotions as civilians because they are simply civilians with government jobs. They are immune to nothing like everyone else. The security of their families is important to them like everyone else. They have all made CYA plans. You know who you are.

Pandemonium. Count on it.
 

WildDaisy

God has a plan, Trust it!
"We are confident that the District is prepared to respond to a catastrophic incident affecting the District," Mr. Darnell said.

Yeah, that someone else (Feds, MD, VA, Red Cross) will come in and do everything for them.:rolleyes:

Why did they say they were confident that they were prepared in the beginning of the article, and in the end, they said they were no where near prepared to handle the casualties?

Double-speak again?
 

Kook

A 'maker', not a 'taker'!
I get tired of hearing "It's inevitable." If it's truly inevitable, I guess we ought to just dismantle the city and farm out the various government functions to other places.

Actually, I'd like to see the federales broken up and spread around the country. It might make them a bit more accountable. With the web tech available today, the reps and senators could live IN:kaid: their districts, be VISIBLE:popcorn1: to their constituents, and be ACCOUNTABLE :shkr: to us directly all the while living UNDER THE LAWS :kk2: they impose on us. The chambers would become museums. The sessions would be virtual, via secure channels, so no one could have an excuse to be absent. They could have satellite linked laptops, even aboard planes and boats.


Not to mention it would make the jobs of lobbyists much harder!!!:lkick:
 

Dex

Constitutional Patriot
For those who would like to see DC go up in a mushroom cloud, don't forget that there are some of us TB2Kers living in that area. :D

DC with its sensors and police state security levels is probably the safest city in the country for that sort of attack but I don't think it would stop a truly motivated nuclear attacker.

I don't know of any other city that has NBC sensors distributed throughout the metro area. Can anybody else?
 

Zulu Cowboy

Keep It Real...
Zulu, great links, thanks for sharing the info. I'm going to be printing these out at work when nobodys watching! This is the kind of stuff that I may even stay late one night and print out.

Just a heads up; the third link isn't working. (Fallout protection-What to know and do about nuclear attack)

Thanks for the heads up, mbabulldog! You were right...

Try it now...

Zulu

- - - - - - - - -

'What To Do If A Nuclear Disaster Is Imminent'

How to use radiological instruments - (Survey Meters/Dosimeters)

Fallout Protection - What to know and do about nuclear attack

Nuclear War Survival Skills, by Cresson Kearney

Radiation Safety in Shelters

FEMA - The Effects of Nuclear War

CDC - Acute Radiation Syndrome - A Fact Sheet For Physicians

CDC - Explosions and Blast Injuries
 

Chocolatier

Inactive
Just wanted to make sure we all caught that...or am I being overemotional again?

Not at all, TIK. That's a noticable and refreshing difference from, say, the Serbs moving a platoon around and members here screaming the antichrist is going to nuke us any minute; or the Israelis distributing some gas masks which becomes another hyperventilating dot of biblical proportions. You're not one for hysteria and I appreciate that.

Choc
 
No possible way to prepare for the inevitable sheer PANIC that would result.

No friggin' way.

500k+ fleeing in every conceivable direction.

Would likely make Katrina seem like a well-orchestrated and beautifully handled Sunday school picnic by comparison.
 

USDA

Veteran Member
the biggest downside of nuking Washington D.C. would be the loss of national heritage.

As lover of art...I agree...but look what we have already lost this last century. Italy has been falling apart for years, the limestone crumbles entire ledges or facades tumble down. Statues go wobley all from pollution from factories and autos...and if you really wanted to see Rembrandt...you should have seen them at least 100 to 150 years ago or earlier. Painting are darkening and becoming lose from the canvas. All the old works are underglass with private air conditioning and a rope prevents you from getting too close. Everything is desentigrating.

Speaking of which...Dresden was one of the most unique and beautiful cities in central Europe...gone in two weeks worth of WW II bombing...and nothing of military value was there...

National treasures disappear when the nations that held them disappear.

The souls that created middle age wonders, or the workers in Rome and Egypt have passed one...the one's that live in these places now...are so poor of intellect and education, muchless apperication...that they cannot even protect the tremendous wealth given them.

We seem to have cycled down from the heights of inspiration and creativity to a level of superficial living and souls with tremendous amounts of destruction rather than creativity.

The souls alive today, cannot rebuld anything except sterile warehouse life structures. Yes there are a few who stand above the general debasement...but not enough to make a difference.

If we lose civilization to war...the earth might be dark for a 1000 years.
 

Bigfeet

Contributing Member
No possible way to prepare for the inevitable sheer PANIC that would result.

No friggin' way.

500k+ fleeing in every conceivable direction.

Would likely make Katrina seem like a well-orchestrated and beautifully handled Sunday school picnic by comparison.


Exactly correct!


Bigfeet
 

rodeorector

Global Moderator
Not to worry about an attack on DC. The ragheads would never do that. Remember, they hate us. Dex, you're safe.
 

coalcracker

Veteran Member
I could not locate a link on the article posted but that fact is really irrelevant. Many of the issues discussed are reasonably addressed and only a few are spun.

The repercussions of such an event are predictable to a degree.

Two guys with a junk car and a rifle virtually shut down a large portion of the east coast a few years ago. During that time I had a friend and his entire family visit here from D.C. just to “get some relief from the pressures caused by the snipers.” I am sure they were not the only family in the area making changes they thought would improve their lives.

Less than two dozen terrorists (conspiracy theories placed aside here) used airplanes to attack major U.S. buildings. The country went into panic mode and changed forever.

I have often said that when the first nuclear device is detonated in a city in CONUS pandemonium will ensue. Once pandemonium starts predictability dies.

Imagine you are in one of the many suspected “targeted cities.” You are at work or wherever and learn that a large portion of NYC has suddenly vaporized due to a huge blast, type/origin “unclear.” Being of sound mind and body and recalling the events of September 11 you will undoubtedly take some action to ensure the security of your family. Most likely these actions will not consist of watching television while you drink coffee and discuss the issue with coworkers. A few minutes later you learn that a similar event has occurred in Washington D.C.

A single device will ensure that your trip home will be a struggle of monumental proportion. A second device will, almost assuredly, ensure that your trip home will consist of foot travel. Whether or not we, as a country, retaliate militarily against some suspected foe is not a factor. Life from that point on will resemble nothing that presently exists and will be an immense struggle for every occupant of the country public and private.

The well intended plans of government at all levels will rapidly vaporize as the public realizes that the situation in the country has defaulted to every man for himself. Public employees at all levels will experience the same emotions as civilians because they are simply civilians with government jobs. They are immune to nothing like everyone else. The security of their families is important to them like everyone else. They have all made CYA plans. You know who you are.

Pandemonium. Count on it.



Excellent post.

Before we discuss loss of heritage and politics, we need to grasp the truth of the short-term pandemonium and ensuing martial law...
 

Wowser

Inactive
The "leaders" will Continuity of Operations (COOP) for COG, the rest, those that survive the blast, will be on their own.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/25/AR2006122500637.html

New Rural Sales Pitch: Work Outside D.C.'s Fallout Zone


By Alec MacGillis
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, December 26, 2006; A01

Winchester and its neighbors along Interstate 81 in Virginia's Shenandoah Valley have much to recommend themselves to potential employers, including a low cost of living, access to a major highway and views of the nearby Blue Ridge Mountains.

More recently, though, the area has been successfully trumpeting another attribute: It is just outside the "blast zone."

In a little-noticed migration with implications for both greater Washington and the valley, several federal agencies, including the FBI, are relocating operations to the I-81 corridor. Helping drive the shift is the government's emphasis on security in a post-Sept. 11 world, which turns Winchester's location 75 miles from Washington into a geographic ideal. It is far enough from the capital to escape the fallout of a nuclear explosion -- a distance often estimated at 50 miles -- but still close enough so that employees can get to the District relatively easily when they need to.

"There's a certain distance they need to be out from the strike zone -- and Winchester is outside of that," said Jim Deskins, economic redevelopment chief for the 26,000-person city.

The moves represent a level of dispersal even beyond other recently announced federal moves, including the military's planned relocation of 22,000 jobs from the District and inner suburbs to Fort Belvoir in southern Fairfax County and the FBI's relocation of its Northern Virginia field office from Tysons Corner to Manassas. Local officials and planners have criticized those moves, saying they will worsen sprawl and traffic congestion by moving jobs away from downtown and mass transit.

Whether the moves to the I-81 corridor raise similar concerns is a matter of debate. Federal officials argue that the valley is not only more secure, it's preferable for planning and budget reasons. The cost of land and labor are lower in the valley, and with workers moving into the fringes of Northern Virginia and even West Virginia in search of affordable homes, moving operations to a place such as Winchester could mean shorter commutes for many. That, in turn, could mean lower turnover and a more productive workforce.

Leading the shift is the FBI, which chose Winchester over other towns of similar distance from the District as the site for a big centralized archive that by 2009 will employ at least 1,200 people, many of them now working in Washington and Baltimore. Some employees already are working in a temporary facility outside Winchester, a nondescript building that used to hold a printing firm and is now studded with security cameras and bollards.

FEMA has chosen a farm just outside town for an operations center that will employ 700 people. Local officials say this would include positions moved from Mount Weather, the government's hilltop emergency center on the border of Loudoun and Clarke counties, so that that facility could be devoted to national security instead of natural disasters.

Real estate brokers working in Winchester say that FEMA is looking for additional space for its accounting department and that the Department of Homeland Security is looking for space around Harrisonburg, farther south along I-81. Activity is also picking up north along the corridor. Outside Martinsburg, W.Va., the Coast Guard is building a new National Maritime Center, a 200-person office now in Arlington. In Washington County, Md., near Hagerstown, the government is redeveloping the vacant Fort Ritchie to house unnamed intelligence agencies.

Advocates of "smart growth" say relocating the jobs to the valley may not worsen sprawl and traffic in the D.C. metro area, but they argue that it will cause sprawl within the Shenandoah Valley, particularly since the new facilities are being built outside town, on and around the apple orchards that used to surround Winchester. They warn that the growth could threaten the rolling Piedmont that acts as a buffer between development in Northern Virginia and the I-81 corridor.

Of most concern, the advocates say, is that the federal dispersal is occurring with next to no public discussion. No one has yet made a case for whether it's really necessary to send agencies that far, said Stewart Schwartz, director of the D.C.-based Coalition for Smarter Growth. If it is simply a matter of finding more affordable land, agencies could expand in Prince George's County, where there is much available room adjacent to Metro stations, he said.

"Where's the public debate, the elected officials' oversight? This level of dispersal didn't even happen at the height of the Cold War," Schwartz said. "We ought to have an open dialogue about what the real threats might be and whether this dispersal is necessary."

Federal officials defend the need to move as far out as Winchester. "For any government agency looking at a new facility in this day and age, of course security is going to be a priority," said Cathy Milhoan, a spokeswoman for the FBI.

This much is certain: The shift already is having a marked impact on the valley. Real estate agents and developers are buying up land along the half-dozen highways that ring Winchester in anticipation of the contractor jobs and other activity that will likely trail the federal jobs.

Next to the site of the FEMA operations center is a parcel on which Tysons Corner-based NV Commercial is building a large shopping center. Land prices are rising farther out, near one of three possible sites for the FBI campus, up the road from the Oak Grove Restaurant where singer Patsy Cline, a Winchester native, used to stop for lunch.

"A facility like this can be a market maker. Anyone in the development industry is going to be interested in that," said Joshua Gurland, a Bethesda-based real estate broker who has spent the past six months working deals around Winchester. "There's a buzz. If people aren't interested yet themselves, they're interested in finding out why other people are."

There is good reason to expect the jobs to drive growth in the area. The federal agencies expect several hundred of their employees in Washington and elsewhere to relocate for some of the positions. In theory, many of the remaining jobs could be taken by people who now live in Winchester and drive into greater Washington. But Winchester and the rest of Frederick County, Va., send relatively few workers into Washington.

That can be explained by the strong local economy. The I-81 corridor has long served as a major pipeline for goods being transported along the East Coast. That role has only increased as more truckers desert congested Interstate 95 for I-81 and as more companies have begun using Virginia's 17-year-old Inland Port south of Winchester to move goods via rail to or from Norfolk. Rite Aid, Kohl's and Red Bull are among the many companies with big distribution centers in the area.

Also fueling the local economy are Winchester's well-regarded hospital, Shenandoah University, the Apple Blossom Mall and the expanding clusters of big-box stores that draw shoppers from across the region. Most growth has bypassed the historic downtown, but even it is picking up somewhat, with restaurants and specialty shops popping up along the pedestrian mall in the center of town.

With such a tight labor market, local officials expect the new jobs to drive further population growth in Frederick County, which has grown by about 12 percent in the past five years to more than 70,000 -- nearly as fast as Loudoun, Prince William and Fairfax counties to the east. Developers have approval to build about 10,000 more homes, mostly north of town.

To Deskins, the redevelopment director, the relocation of federal agencies to the corridor is a sign that the valley is becoming part of a unified mega-region, with Winchester as a kind of "edge city" on its western border. "The center of Northern Virginia has moved," he said. "It used to be around Springfield, but it's really moved to the Dulles corridor -- and that's only a 40-minute drive away from here."

View all comments that have been posted about this article.
 

Martin

Deceased
Nuclear Attack on Washington DC: Preparation or Anesthetization
Media Dino Minutillo
April 19, 200

The Washington Times published a story on April 16, 2008 by Gary Emerling titled “Nuclear attack on D.C. a hypothetical disaster.”



The author describes the effects a 10 Kiloton Hiroshima size bomb would have on the DC area to include deaths, its destructive effects, response capability, and the strain a recovery operation would have on American citizens. Awesome story; informative and quite frankly scary.



Unfortunately, there is a hidden agenda with this story. The agenda I am I seeking to expose is one most Americans do not even realize is happening and is a good part of the root cause of our country’s decline. The Main Stream Media (MSM) goes through these gyrations with the American public every day and whitewashes the truth.



Any time you tune to a 24 hour news outlet (even FOX); a constant flow of tabloid news is thrown over the airways at the American public. Combining the tabloid news with some real news which is spun to satisfy the network’s politikal agenda is what Americans will walk away with and believe.



A case in point is today’s Washington Times story. I do not believe this story was intended to inform, or even frighten the audience. Since 9-11 the cries of a potential nuclear attack on a major American city has been the norm and on the rise. Why? Because we have NOT been attacked and the longer countries like Iran go unchecked, the possibility of a nuclear attack on a major US City does in fact rise. No argument there. But why keep informing the public? To anesthetize” the American people. Yes “anesthetize!” Media mindset is; if we can continually drive home what we want the American people to believe then they will believe. Hence, the left’s agenda to continue pushing the country further left.



If the MSM can make the country used to the idea that we will be attacked with a nuclear weapon, then when it happens we will accept it, recover, and press on with life instead of becoming angry as we did following 9-11 which prompted the President to go on the offensive. When that happens we will have submitted. If you do not believe we are heading down the road of submissiveness, think again. Europe is all but lost to Islam. England, France, and Germany will be Muslim nations in 20 years. If we are not careful, we will follow in their footsteps.



So, if we are made less sensitive to a nuclear attack, then psychologically as a group we will accept the inevitability of that kind of event. We will have become a Pacifist nation. That’s where the left and our MSM want to guide our country. No longer can we fight for what we believe, no longer should we be the world’s Super Power, no longer should we be free. That is the left’s intended goal.



Think about it. If we fought the war on terror the way we fought WWII with a ”win at all costs” mentality, we would probably have already won the War on Terror and been out of Iraq. Instead we are still there. Political Correctness rules the day. We have become a submissive society and have allowed the bleeding heart syndrome to become our guide. As a result, the country has lost it’s will to fight. And what is the effect? We are perceived by our enemy as being weak and when you appear weak, you are weak.



Islamo-Fascists are NOT the real enemy. Our enemy lies within us. If we are not careful we will destroy ourselves from within just as Rome did.



We the people are solely responsible for any ill-fate the country may suffer in the future because we believe everything we hear on the “TV” or in the news without questioning the motive of the media and the left.

Dino Minutillo is a retired Air Force Master Sergeant and currently works for an Air Force Contractor developing training scenarios.


http://www.therant.us/guest/d_minutillo/2008/04192008.htm
 
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