OP-ED WE HIT A NERVE Chuck Baldwin

Chuck's followup to his "The Hardest Decision I've Ever Made" column.

WE HIT A NERVE

By Chuck Baldwin
September 8, 2010
NewsWithViews.com

My column last week announcing my family's and my decision to leave Pensacola, Florida, and move to Montana must have hit a nerve--and that's putting it mildly. Between my son, Tim, and I, we have received hundreds (no hyperbole) of emails. In fact, we have received hundreds of emails just from people who live in Montana. Altogether, the response has been overwhelmingly positive and congratulatory. But in truth, the reaction was much deeper than that.

See my column announcing our move to Montana.

Our decision to leave the sunny south and move to Montana has produced an avalanche of responses such as (paraphrased), "My family and I were praying about where to move, and now we know," and "God has already been moving in our hearts to do the same thing that you and your family are doing, Chuck," and "Make room for us," and "We just moved to Idaho, so we'll be neighbors," and "We know you are following God's will," and "We understand what you are doing and are praying for you," etc., etc. We have received hundreds of emails such as these.

As I said in my previous column, I believe Montana (and surrounding states) is in store for a FREEDOM RUSH. People all over America instinctively realize that things cannot keep going the way they are. The tyrannical tentacles of Washington, D.C., are making life a proverbial hell on earth for people all over the country, and, unfortunately, many (if not most) states are unwilling to resist the Crown's (excuse me, DC's) evil machinations. So, in the hearts of freedom-loving people there burns the question, "What do we do?" My family and I have answered that question. Our move is in response to the direct and definite revelation of God, in much the same way that our Pilgrim and Pioneer ancestors followed God's guiding light.

But, just as our patriot forebears met with intense opposition, so have we. We hit a nerve all right! As soon as the announcement was made, Big-Government loyalists (some calling themselves Christians, to boot) began attacking me in the most vehement manner possible. The meanest and most cruel accusations, lies, distortions, etc., that one could think of were instantly hurled against my family and me. (Thank God, the faithful members of Crossroad Baptist Church where I pastored for 35 years understand my heart and--though hurt--have overwhelmingly expressed their support and love for us.)

It is truly incredible! Just ask yourself, "Why in the world should other people care--one way or another--that my family and I would decide to make a move? What difference should that make to them?" People move all the time. Do others usually react with vicious slander and open hostility (mostly done anonymously, of course)? No. So why would they react this way because the Baldwins decided to move? I'll tell you why.

People realize that we have found the ultimate vehicle through which liberty can be transported to future generations. The principalities and powers that be recognize that what we are doing could lead to the restitution of genuine liberty in these States united. In short, they must feel threatened. They realize the potential of what we are doing is so great, so powerful, and so extensive, that it could literally change the course of American history. Yes, I truly believe that. Do I believe that I am that important or powerful? Not at all. I am only one man (a rather simple man, at that). But I know there is a great God in Heaven Who inspired great men of history to incorporate great principles of freedom into the minds and hearts of a great people, and by so doing changed the course of history at that time. And I am convinced that this same God and those same principles are just as revolutionary--just as powerful--today as they were then. Therefore, the principalities and powers that be are scared silly that others will be inspired to do as we are doing. So, they are attempting to assassinate my motives and character. Well, it won't work!

Everything that my family and I have been accused of, America's founders were accused of. Things being said about me were said about Patrick Henry and Sam Adams. We are being called the same dirty names as were the brave men and women of 1775 and '76. And just as our patriot forebears paid no heed to these insults and mischaracterizations, and marched forward, so will we!

Yes, we hit a nerve! For some, it was an inspirational nerve of courage, understanding, conviction, and support. For others, it was a nerve of anger, opposition, and perhaps even fear--or maybe jealousy. So be it! We always knew a line was being drawn in the sand, didn't we? It's about time we find out exactly where we stand in this freedom fight that is coming, because the fight is coming. With us or without us, the freedom fight is coming.

Again, I want to thank those of you who have poured out your love and support for this very difficult and life-changing decision that we Baldwins have made. I will continue to write this column. My web site will remain intact. And just as soon as possible, I will be back on the Internet, livestreaming my messages. Watch this column (and my web site) for announcements and progress regarding all of the above.

And to those of you in Montana (and surrounding states), we look forward to standing shoulder to shoulder with you in the great freedom struggle that is to come.

P.S. My archived video sermons page is (and will remain) online, and very soon the most recent messages announcing this move will also be available online.

*If you appreciate this column and want to help me distribute these editorial opinions to an ever-growing audience, donations may now be made by credit card, check, or Money Order.

© 2010 Chuck Baldwin - All Rights Reserved

MARANATHA!

It's hard to believe, much less understand the motives of people who seem bent on attacking Chuck.

He has made a decision to move.

A move to Montana.

God bless him. I hope that he and his family find what they are looking for.

I would move as well, but age, infirmity and monitarily I can't make such a move.

God bless those who can and do make a move that suits them.

lw

Chuck has blasphemed the mechanism. Of course they are upset.

They may call themselves Christians, but are most likely just hiding behind their true livelyhoods. The government.

FWIW, I don't have any desire to attack the guy but do think his entire line of reasoning is flawed. He's apparently based his decision on the idea that there'll be a massive bout of discontent and possibly civil unrest/civil war in the U.S. and that men of God will be needed there to help keep the freedom fighters aligned with God.

This shows a profound lack of understanding of what God's Kingdom actually is, and what we are to do in support of its coming. Fighting for freedom is a misnomer given that (A) we are not by any definition "free" in this country and haven't been for a long time, and (B) the fedgov will be going away soon, as will all other nations, when the Kingdom establishes its dominion over the secular world as it already has the heavens. Besides, God's followers are already free, free from superstitions and falsehoods and free from hopelessness and uncertainty regarding our fates and futures. None of this "freedom" stuff in the secular sense matters in the greater scheme of things.

Getting involved in a fight for freedom is allowing yourself to be distracted from what really matters - God's will being done on His shiny blue marble, just as He stated is going to happen. We will only be spectators for the battles involved in that process.

Lone Wolf said:

It's hard to believe, much less understand the motives of people who seem bent on attacking Chuck.

He has made a decision to move.

A move to Montana.

God bless him. I hope that he and his family find what they are looking for.

I would move as well, but age, infirmity and monitarily I can't make such a move.

God bless those who can and do make a move that suits them.

lw

Click to expand...

He didn't give any specific examples of attacks, but I accept his comments at face value, and simply cannot imagine why anyone would take him to task for moving. Boggles my mind. Are people really that stupid and hateful?

OO, taking another tact, I would argue that it is precisely the reason that "God's followers are already free" which means we MUST fight for freedom.

In essence, the very foundation of this nation was revolutionary because it determined (with God's assistance) that rights are inalienable and come from Him, not from a king or caliph or dictator or despots.

So, while the argument can be made that "we are not by any definition "free" in this country and haven't been for a long time" I would argue that we most certainly ARE free, our rights CANNOT be separated from us and what we have shown is a lack of will to stand up and declare the actions of the TPTB ILLEGAL and fight to correct and defend our own selves and that freedom which is God's gift to each of us.

We have already gone too long making excuses instead of standing up for Him.

I disagree that getting involved in a fight for freedom is allowing one's self to become distracted from what matters - it is entirely the opposite. I think it pisses God off when we let evil trample on that which He has bestowed upon us.

Mike

mt4design said:

OO, taking another tact, I would argue that it is precisely the reason that "God's followers are already free" which means we MUST fight for freedom.

In essence, the very foundation of this nation was revolutionary because it determined (with God's assistance) that rights are inalienable and come from Him, not from a king or caliph or dictator or despots.

So, while the argument can be made that "we are not by any definition "free" in this country and haven't been for a long time" I would argue that we most certainly ARE free, our rights CANNOT be separated from us and what we have shown is a lack of will to stand up and declare the actions of the TPTB ILLEGAL and fight to correct and defend our own selves and that freedom which is God's gift to each of us.

We have already gone too long making excuses instead of standing up for Him.

I disagree that getting involved in a fight for freedom is allowing one's self to become distracted from what matters - it is entirely the opposite. I think it pisses God off when we let evil trample on that which He has bestowed upon us.

Mike

Click to expand...

The problem with this line of thinking is that it, too, misses the point of the Kingdom. God's Kingdom will be replacing all of the "kingdoms" (governments) of the Earth. There will not be any need to fight for "freedom" when everyone will be freed from human self-rule in one fell swoop.

Oddone said:

God's followers are already free, free from superstitions and falsehoods and free from hopelessness and uncertainty regarding our fates and futures. ...

We will only be spectators for the battles involved in that process.

Click to expand...

These are the ones becoming those “having no disturbance, dwelling in security, all of them dwelling without wall, and they do not have even bar and doors,” during the tumultuous years starting soon.

One does not begrudge the man for his move just that he is declaring his action is toward a fight that is not that of true Christians. Baldwin seems to think there is a need to change the “hearts and minds” of a great people toward a revolution to restore this nation. The premise is wrong. Instead of teaching what God intends to happen to this nation and the entire world in the very near future, he seems to exploit the coming distress as if there is some divinely directed action to be undertaken. This is done in ignorance or disregard for the prophecies of the end times. The error will not be beneficial for his followers.

OddOne said:

The problem with this line of thinking is that it, too, misses the point of the Kingdom. God's Kingdom will be replacing all of the "kingdoms" (governments) of the Earth. There will not be any need to fight for "freedom" when everyone will be freed from human self-rule in one fell swoop.

Click to expand...

OO, I see what you mean and I think your perspective is right on, it just isn't my own.

That leads directly to the point that Baldwin's perspective may well be divergent from that of some other believer but it doesn't make it less valid.

Our founders had similar but different religious views but managed to build a system inspired by divine guidance.

That is what I think Baldwin is following, divine guidance.

Not being a Bible scholar, I still believe that it is full of similar examples of God speaking directly to an individual moving him in a direction but requiring that individual to engage in freedom of choice or self determination.

Perhaps that is what Baldwin is going through.

Mike

RJC said:

These are the ones becoming those “having no disturbance, dwelling in security, all of them dwelling without wall, and they do not have even bar and doors,” during the tumultuous years starting soon.

One does not begrudge the man for his move just that he is declaring his action is toward a fight that is not that of true Christians. Baldwin seems to think there is a need to change the “hearts and minds” of a great people toward a revolution to restore this nation. The premise is wrong. Instead of teaching what God intends to happen to this nation and the entire world in the very near future, he seems to exploit the coming distress as if there is some divinely directed action to be undertaken. This is done in ignorance or disregard for the prophecies of the end times. The error will not be beneficial for his followers.

Click to expand...

I haven't read words suggesting a move toward revolution only a stand for freedom.

They are two very distinct things.

There is a huge difference between a government coming down on a people and destroying freedom and liberty vs. a people standing against tyranny.

There is a huge difference between a people bent on installing a system of despotic rule vs. a people intent on securing the blessings of liberty not for themselves but for their posterity.

Circling the wagons is not revolutionary, it is defensive.

Fundamentally transforming the very system which recognizes that freedom comes from God IS revolutionary. The revolutionaries are running the nation already. The sooner people realize that the revolution has already begun the sooner they can come to grips with how they can make their way through what is on the horizon.

Mike

rhughe13 said:

Chuck has blasphemed the mechanism. Of course they are upset.

They may call themselves Christians, but are most likely just hiding behind their true livelyhoods. The government.

Click to expand...

A lot of folks have stopped calling themselves Christian.

Same goes for the word religious.

Some say they are "born agains" or someother more specific name.

This is a way for those folks to seperate themselves from those who just say they are religious or Christian, when some surly are not but say they are.

lw

Pardon my ignorance, and I have nothing against Montana, but what is the significance of a move to Montana from Florida other then a change of scenery for him?

Obviously there is fresh air, sunshine, "back to nature" mentality and mountains, but they are still a state under the same government, same economy etc. What makes this a "move for freedom" for him?

Did they secede from the Union when I wasn't looking?

bethshaya said:

Did they secede from the Union when I wasn't looking?

Click to expand...

Not yet, but I'm hoping.

The main thing is that it be GOD who lead him there. Who knows where GOD may move us all in the days ahead. He has always struck me as the real deal and has certainly been in the trenches long before the leaders now. Maybe he just sees where that is all headed.

In the end Jesus said when He returns will He find us doing the will of the Father-preaching the gospel, in season and out of season....out of season is fast approaching.

mt4design said:

I haven't read words suggesting a move toward revolution only a stand for freedom.

Fundamentally transforming the very system which recognizes that freedom comes from God IS revolutionary. The revolutionaries are running the nation already. The sooner people realize that the revolution has already begun the sooner they can come to grips with how they can make their way through what is on the horizon.

Mike

Click to expand...

No doubt your last paragraph is correct, and I woud ask how one should "come to grips with how they can make their way through what is on the horizon?"

Baldwin said this, "But I know there is a great God in Heaven Who inspired great men of history to incorporate great principles of freedom into the minds and hearts of a great people, and by so doing changed the course of history at that time. And I am convinced that this same God and those same principles are just as revolutionary--just as powerful--today as they were then. Therefore, the principalities and powers that be are scared silly that others will be inspired to do as we are doing. So, they are attempting to assassinate my motives and character. Well, it won't work! ...

It's about time we find out exactly where we stand in this freedom fight that is coming, because the fight is coming. With us or without us, the freedom fight is coming."

He does not explain what is really coming nor what he thinks is the freedom fight. I personally do not know of anywhere in the scriptures where Christ's followers are instructed to join any freedom fight in the end times. But I do undertand your position and concur that is how many Christians might choice to react.

Personally I don't care what he does, or does not do, or why it even matters for that. Much to do about nothing...........

Warthog said:

Not yet, but I'm hoping.

Click to expand...

+1

Baldwin is a Baptist who believes in a pre-trib rapture, not a dominionist.

There is a big difference in defending the constitution

or wanting to overthrow it and start your own.

OddOne said:

FWIW, I don't have any desire to attack the guy but do think his entire line of reasoning is flawed. He's apparently based his decision on the idea that there'll be a massive bout of discontent and possibly civil unrest/civil war in the U.S. and that men of God will be needed there to help keep the freedom fighters aligned with God.

This shows a profound lack of understanding of what God's Kingdom actually is, and what we are to do in support of its coming. Fighting for freedom is a misnomer given that (A) we are not by any definition "free" in this country and haven't been for a long time, and (B) the fedgov will be going away soon, as will all other nations, when the Kingdom establishes its dominion over the secular world as it already has the heavens. Besides, God's followers are already free, free from superstitions and falsehoods and free from hopelessness and uncertainty regarding our fates and futures. None of this "freedom" stuff in the secular sense matters in the greater scheme of things.

Getting involved in a fight for freedom is allowing yourself to be distracted from what really matters - God's will being done on His shiny blue marble, just as He stated is going to happen. We will only be spectators for the battles involved in that process.

Click to expand...

I couldn't agree with you more. I don't think you can find any reference in the New Testament that had believers in direct conflict with the Roman government, which was very oppressive at the time. America is done, kaput and people need to get over it. It is not coming back. I and others that study prophecy believe that in the coming days that America will be utterly destroyed as shown in Revelation chapter 18. The best thing that any believer can do in these days is get out and win others over to Christ.

OddOne said:

FWIW, I don't have any desire to attack the guy but do think his entire line of reasoning is flawed. He's apparently based his decision on the idea that there'll be a massive bout of discontent and possibly civil unrest/civil war in the U.S. and that men of God will be needed there to help keep the freedom fighters aligned with God.

This shows a profound lack of understanding of what God's Kingdom actually is, and what we are to do in support of its coming. Fighting for freedom is a misnomer given that (A) we are not by any definition "free" in this country and haven't been for a long time, and (B) the fedgov will be going away soon, as will all other nations, when the Kingdom establishes its dominion over the secular world as it already has the heavens. Besides, God's followers are already free, free from superstitions and falsehoods and free from hopelessness and uncertainty regarding our fates and futures. None of this "freedom" stuff in the secular sense matters in the greater scheme of things.

Getting involved in a fight for freedom is allowing yourself to be distracted from what really matters - God's will being done on His shiny blue marble, just as He stated is going to happen. We will only be spectators for the battles involved in that process.

Click to expand...

Your premise is based on the idea that the current issues with tyranny are the same ones in the end times.I am a Christian my fate as to the afterlife are already sealed, however it is my belief that I am to take a stand against evil in the earthly realm also. This can be done many ways as there are many types of warriors, some can choose the way of peaceful civil disobedience, others may choose to stand and take the fight to the oppressors of freedom.It all depends on what God puts on/in your heart. I believe we are to STAND for freedom or right or whatever the cause. We are already saved, we should fight for freedom because no man knows that this battle or the next battle is the last great battle and to not fight means we will simply give away what God has provided and we have won with his Davine help and cherished over time.

Something else struck me, we seem to be confusing something here. You can be a faithful Christian, and still believe in fighting for the constitution. the 2 are not incompatable.Being a Christian does not mean you have to become a slave or give up your freedom.

My issue with Chuck is that he tells people to give up our freedom to vote (or throw it away on people who have no hope of winning) with the hope of what? Civil war / revolution?

If we follow his advise and stop voting for people who are winnable and are constitutional then that leaves us with what - the socialists / communists choice of leaders in every state and in DC?

So then Chuck tells everyone to fight for freedom one state at a time.

That sounds good but if we are not supposed to waste our vote on anyone but shoe he and RP approve and they are typically unelectable - then who is leading these fights in the states?

And doesn't that leave us with a pure communist regime in DC who will use their power in the courts and through the rule of law (they make) to pit our military against the states who stand up to them - like is starting to happen in Arizona?

I sincerely do not see the logic and I only see Chuck leading us into a civil war with his 'leading.'

Where does a pastor get the instructions from Jesus to lead the flock into civil war? One example in the NT would be sufficient.

ETA: I wish Chuck and RP would realize that revolution is unwinnable and use their influence to try to UNITE the conservatives (Chuck and RP as divisive as Obooboo is)
to get behind winnable candidates who will start to steer the country back to the constitution. They may not be purists like Chuck and RP see themselves as but Chuck and RP are also not winnable so if we are going to win - we have to be smart about the game plan and that is NOT heading off a cliff to civil war.

Thomas Paine said:

Something else struck me, we seem to be confusing something here. You can be a faithful Christian, and still believe in fighting for the constitution. the 2 are not incompatable.Being a Christian does not mean you have to become a slave or give up your freedom.

Click to expand...

No - but giving up your vote because two men tell you it is a waste of time knowing full well they are leading people into a blood bath of civil war is not Christian.

This country needs repentance and to seek God - not bullets.
God can hand us a victory that we will never find in the battle field if we have not repented as a nation.

The country has never had a more awake electorate. We can take back DC if we all unite. But we are surely headed for the civil war the left is baiting us for if we do not use our vote wisely.

Think about it - the left is baiting for chaos - they are hoping we start fighting. They are ready for it. Do you really think it is winnable especially with Russia, China, and Venezuela chomping at the bit to take this country and her resources over when we are in the throws of a civil war?

No way would i even want to visit the Gulf Coast. May God be with Chuck and everyone else in their move to "safer grounds".

Emily, who do you suggest we vote for, to read their columns, to consider their advice? Who in your opinion follows the constitution?


I think Baldwin and others are moving there to try to avoid the coming war...
not to start it.

Emily said:

....

Think about it - the left is baiting for chaos - they are hoping we start fighting. They are ready for it. Do you really think it is winnable especially with Russia, China, and Venezuela chomping at the bit to take this country and her resources over when we are in the throws of a civil war?

Click to expand...

It is always "winnable." Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? No. And its not over now. Who is with me?

The Colonial Army didn't have a chance in hell of beating the world's largest super power. Yet they did.

Bring on Russia, China, and all other takers.

They won't fair well.

We may lose in the end, but we will give it a good go.

"Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than live as slaves." Winston Churchill

Palmetto

Palmetto said:

It is always "winnable." Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? No. And its not over now. Who is with me?

The Colonial Army didn't have a chance in hell of beating the world's largest super power. Yet they did.

Bring on Russia, China, and all other takers.

They won't fair well.

We may lose in the end, but we will give it a good go.

"Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than live as slaves." Winston Churchill

Palmetto

Click to expand...

Precisely! Well stated!!!

Mike

"The Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?" Isn't that a line from "Stripes"?

Anyway, y'all can wait and hope for the 'rapture'. Me and my kind have drawn a line in the sand and will fight to the death to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. Jesus may have my soul, but the Constitutional Republic has my 'ass'.

The fight starts here on my front yard. It is the Christian thing to do.

conundrum said:

Emily, who do you suggest we vote for, to read their columns, to consider their advice? Who in your opinion follows the constitution?


I think Baldwin and others are moving there to try to avoid the coming war...
not to start it.

Click to expand...

If, and it is a BIG IF - a revolution is won by constitutionalists - who would you choose to lead it then?

There are plenty of leaders on the stage today but people like Chuck and RP run them through a purity test that not many can stand up to.

The founding fathers had a lot of differences but they agreed on a few things:
1. That all freedoms and rights are from God alone because if any of them are from man than man can also take them away.
2. It is the government's sole job to protect those individual freedoms and protect the homeland from foreign invaders.

And for the sake of the republic, they compromised on a lot of other issues until the foundation was in place - slavery being one of them.

The same kind of compromise has to be made now to find leaders in EACH state and voting them into DC to start turning the tide. But we are not going to find purists as so many define.

Every time someone steps out on the stage and offers to unite us - the CB and RP group shred them apart like vultures and stomp on the remains.

That is only helping the enemy keep us down and divided.

Palmetto said:

It is always "winnable." Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? No. And its not over now. Who is with me?

The Colonial Army didn't have a chance in hell of beating the world's largest super power. Yet they did.

Bring on Russia, China, and all other takers.

They won't fair well.

We may lose in the end, but we will give it a good go.

"Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than live as slaves." Winston Churchill

Palmetto

Click to expand...

Really? How many in-country revolutions have been won in the history of mankind against a government with a standing army?

Do you think our enemies are going to keep out of it?

How many Hamas fighters have they brought over and sewn among us to join in the mix?

The fact that the left is stoking for chaos means they are also prepared with lots of surprises to stomp it out and eliminate unity. Without unity, there will be no winning. And RP and CB make sure that the conservatives stay divided because they refuse to compromise one iota.

So divided we will fall.

Really? How many in-country revolutions have been won in the history of mankind against a government with a standing army?

Click to expand...

Emily, to answer your question: India (Quit India movement), South Africa (Apartheid), Russia (Perestroika), French Revolution, among others. Standing up against a government, even one well armed, is possible and has been successful. These movements changed the ideals, politics, economy or policies of a country and were all started by individuals willing to face death to make that change (Ghandi, Mandella, MLK).

A question for you....how many wars have been won by countries that had NO standing army against multiple countries with standing armies?

One! Israel

They were invaded by the armies of 3 countries and their civilian militia were just everyday people fighting for their homeland and they were outnumbered 300 to 1. In 6 days, they not only drove those 3 armies out of the city of Jerusalem, but also gained new land for Israeli use. They enlarged their borders.

6 days!
Outnumbered 300 to 1
against the armies of 3 different countries!
and they enlarged their borders!

You of all people should know, ANYTHING is possible with God!

I don't know if you think yours can, but my God can. He did it for them, and he can do it for us too.

"Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks", or to put a modern spin on that scripture..."if you think you can't, you're probably right" - negative input, negative output. It all starts with one person and the first step. Nothing changes if nothing changes!

bethshaya said:

Emily, to answer your question: India (Quit India movement), South Africa (Apartheid), Russia (Perestroika), French Revolution, among others. Standing up against a government, even one well armed, is possible and has been successful. These movements changed the ideals, politics, economy or policies of a country and were all started by individuals willing to face death to make that change (Ghandi, Mandella, MLK).

A question for you....how many wars have been won by countries that had NO standing army against multiple countries with standing armies?

One! Israel

They were invaded by the armies of 3 countries and their civilian militia were just everyday people fighting for their homeland and they were outnumbered 300 to 1. In 6 days, they not only drove those 3 armies out of the city of Jerusalem, but also gained new land for Israeli use. They enlarged their borders.

6 days!
Outnumbered 300 to 1
against the armies of 3 different countries!
and they enlarged their borders!

You of all people should know, ANYTHING is possible with God!

I don't know if you think yours can, but my God can. He did it for them, and he can do it for us too.

"Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks", or to put a modern spin on that scripture..."if you think you can't, you're probably right" - negative input, negative output. It all starts with one person and the first step. Nothing changes if nothing changes!

Click to expand...

First - I know that with God all things are possible but also unless this country repents and turns back to God NOTHING is possible except our destruction.

Second - This nation's electorate is awake. We have God loving, constitution loving candidates running in races all across this country.

If we all cannot unite to try to resolve this peacefully through the ballot box BEFORE we let it devolve into a revolution then we will NEVER unite to win any battle against anyone.

And where in the new testament does Jesus lead us into a revolution rather than to our knees in prayer and UNITE together in prayer for repentance and for His miracles at the ballot box before we ask Him to give us victory through bullets?

The quote was from "Animal House."

It was tongue-in-cheek.

Emily, here is a quote from Sam Adams that many Americans believe deep in their souls.

"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."

You are entitled to your opinion.

My opinion is that the Tea Parties are 30 years too late. Constitutional candidates are fine. Can they turn back the forces of darkness that are behind the transformation of America into Amerika? IMHO, too little too late.

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free." - Reagan



Yes, God is the answer. So is the ballot box...at this point in time.

The founders gave us four boxes. We used #1 and no one listened. We will use #2 in 2010 and 2012. Time will tell if it comes to #4.

However, I cannot fathom out Father wanting us to be serfs in the New Order.

Liberty or Death.

Emily,
You brought up the founding fathers so I posted this below, it might be what this thread is soon about...




Son of the Republic, Look and Learn

~ A Vision of George Washington ~

"The Birth, the progress and the destiny of the United States"



The father of our country, George Washington, was a man of prayer. Many of us have read of how he went to the thicket many times to pray during the winter his army was at Valley Forge. However, little publicity has been give to the vision and prophecy he received at that time.

The account of this vision was given in 1859 by an old soldier. He gave it to a writer, Wesley Bradshaw, who published it. In the vision God revealed to George Washington that three great perils would come upon the republic. He was given to know that America was going through the first peril at that time. The old soldier who told the story of the vision said the nation would soon see the account verified by the second peril descending upon the land.

We give the account here as printed in the U.S. war veterans paper The National Tribune, in December 1880. The National Tribune became, "The Stars and Stripes", and this article was later reprinted in that publication.



I do not know whether it is owing to the anxiety of my mind, or what, but this afternoon, as I was sitting at this table engaging in preparing a dispatch, something in the apartment seemed to disturb me. Looking up, I beheld standing opposite to me a singularly beautiful being. So astonished was I, for I had given strict orders not to be disturbed that it was some moments before I found language to inquire the cause of the visit. A second, a third, and even a fourth time did I repeat my question, but received no answer from my mysterious visitor except a slight raising of the eyes.

By this time I felt strange sensations spreading through me. I would have risen but the riveted gaze of the being before me rendered volition impossible. I tried once more to speak, but my tongue became useless, as if paralyzed. A new influence, mysterious, potent, irresistible, took possession of me. All I could do was to gaze steadily, vacantly at my unknown visitor.

Gradually the surrounding atmosphere seemed to fill with sensations, and grew luminous. Everything about me seemed to rarefy, the mysterious visitor also becoming more airy and yet more distinct to my sight than before. I began to feel as one dying, or rather to experience the sensations I sometimes imagine accompanying death. I did not think, I did not reason, I did not move. All were alike impossible. I was only conscious of gazing fixedly, vacantly on my companion.

Presently I heard a voice say,

"Son of the Republic, look and learn,"

while at the same time my visitor extended an arm eastward. I now beheld a heavy white vapor at some distance rising fold upon fold. This gradually dissipated, and I looked upon the strange scene. Before me lay, out in one vast plain all the countries of the world -- Europe, Asia, Africa, and America. I saw rolling and tossing between Europe and America lay billows of the Atlantic, and between Asia and America lay the Pacific.

"Son of the Republic", said the same mysterious voice as before,

"Look and learn."

At that moment I beheld a dark shadowy being, like an angel, standing, or rather floating in mid-air, between Europe and America. Dipping water out of the ocean in the hollow of each hand, he sprinkled some upon America with his right hand, while with his left he cast some over Europe. Immediately a cloud arose from these countries and joined in mid-ocean. For awhile it remained stationary, and then it moved slowly westward, until it enveloped America in its murky folds. Sharp flashed of lightning gleamed through at intervals, and I heard the smothered groans and cries of the American People.

A second time the angel dipped water from the ocean and sprinkled it out as before. The dark cloud drew back to the ocean, in whose heaving billows it sank from view.

A third time I heard the mysterious voice saying,

"Son of the Republic, look and learn."

I cast my eyes upon America and beheld villages and town and cities spring up one right after another until the whole land from the Atlantic to the Pacific was dotted with them. Again, I heard the mysterious voice say,

"Son of the Republic, the end of the century cometh, look and learn."

And this time a dark shadowy angel turned his face southward. From Africa I saw an ill omened spectra approach our land. It flitted slowly and heavily over every town and city of the latter. The inhabitants presently set themselves in battle array against each other. As I continued look I saw a bright angel on whose brow was traced the word 'Union.' He was bearing the American flag. He placed the flag between the divided nation and said,

"Remember, ye are brethren. "

Instantly the inhabitants, casting down their weapons became friends once more, and united around the National Standard.

Again I heard a mysterious voice saying,

"Son of the Republic, look and learn."

At this the dark, shadowy angel placed a trumpet to his mouth, and blew three distinct blasts; and taking water from the ocean, he sprinkled it upon Europe, Asia, and Africa.

Then my eyes beheld a fearful scene. From each of these continents arose thick black clouds that were soon joined into one. And throughout this mass there gleamed a dark red light by which I saw hordes of armed men. These men, moving with the cloud marched by land and sailed by sea to America, which country was enveloped in the volume of the cloud. And I dimly saw these vast armies devastate the whole country and burn the villages, towns and cities, which I had seen spring up.

As my ears listened to the thundering of the cannon, clashing of swords, and the shouts and cries of millions in mortal combat, I again heard the mysterious voice saying,

"Son of the Republic, look and learn."

When the voice had ceased, the dark shadowy angel placed his trumpet once more to his mouth, and blew a long and fearful blast. Instantly a light, as of a thousand suns shone down from above me, and pierced and broke into fragments of the dark cloud, which enveloped America. At the same moment the angel upon whose head still shown the word 'Union,' and who bore our national flag in one hand and a sword in the other, descended from the heavens attended by legions of white spirits. These immediately joined the inhabitants of America, who I perceived were well-nigh over come, but who immediately taking courage again, closed up their broken ranks, and renewed battle.

Again amid the fearful voice of the conflict I heard the mysterious voice say,

"Son of the Republic, look and learn."

As the voice ceased, the shadowy angel for the last time dipped the water from the ocean and sprinkled it upon America. Instantly the dark clouds rolled back, together with the armies it had brought, leaving the inhabitants of the land victorious.

Then once more I beheld the villages, towns and cities springing up where I had seem them before, while the bright angel, planting the azure standard cried with a loud voice:

"While the stars remain, and the heavens send down dew upon the earth, so long shall the Union last."

And taking from his brow the crown, which blazoned the word 'Union,' he placed it down upon the standard while the people, kneeling down said, 'Amen.'

The scene instantly began to fade and dissolve, and I at last saw nothing but the rising, curling vapor, I at first beheld. This also disappeared, and I found myself once more gazing upon the mysterious visitor who, in the same voice I heard before said,

"Son of the Republic, what you have seen is thus interpreted: Three great perils will come upon the Republic. The most fearful for her is the third. But the whole world united shall not prevail against her. Let every child of the Republic learn to live for his God, his land and Union."

With these words the vision vanished, and I started from my seat and felt that I had seen a vision wherein had been showed me the birth, progress, and destiny of the United States."

You guys are completely missing my point. My point is not the preservation of the republic - it is about the leadership that is seriously lacking in Chuck and Ron's focus of how to preserve the republic.

War and physical conflict should always be the LAST resort when ALL other peaceful solutions have been exhausted and then, soberly, and with full open knowledge of the odds and the serious cost to the innocent lives and the incredible reality of the opposition to success.

I, for one, do not see God supporting a route where repentence, prayer, and the ballot box have not been fully exhausted before choosing to take a physical stand knowing it will result in blood shed.

Emily, the revolution is ALREADY here.

In fact, the enemy IS mobilized. The enemy IS already engaged. So, like it or not eventually one is going to have to choose sides in order to preserve one's self, one's family, one's future.

And, leaders are born out of necessity and tested by fire. That is just the way it is. Just because Baldwin is moving, feels compelled to warn and stand shoulder to shoulder with like minded people doesn't make him a leader.

BTW, the enemy has leaders, it has foot soldiers already in the field, and they have been fighting. They have fought here in Los Angeles every night for the last three against the LAPD. They fight by marching, engaging in civil unrest and rioting, promoting anarchy, provoking response. They are testing weakness in the lines, probing weakness in the ranks, and they ARE winning.

As to God, I will NOT be one to contemplate or assume what HE wants of me. I will only answer His call.

I would ask you this, if it is God's will that you protect your family would you do it?

If it is God's will that you protect your neighbor, would you do it?

If it is God's will that you protect a stranger, would you do it?

Even if it means you may lose your own life in the process, would you do it?

I've asked myself each of these questions and answered in the affirmative to each. Primarily, because I believe it is not my place to question God's will.

So, then, the last question.

If, across the field, a thousand of your enemy stand ready to end your life, that of your family, your neighbors, and strangers whose only alignment with you is that they find common qualities in your cause, would you fight? Would you be willing to die?

Thus, though it is not your choice to fight, the fight has found you.

Would God not want you to fight against tyranny to ensure your family live on?

The bottom line is that the time and place may not be of our choosing.

The choice to fight or die may not be of our choosing.

Does that mean the only choice is to simply surrender?

As a man who's family lived under tyranny, oppressed and suffering when surrender was the only viable option for survival, I have first hand accounts of what that life is like. And, as a man who's father at the age of 14 put his own life on the line to help his family and this country - living behind enemy lines - I can offer this...

...sometimes, death comes quickly at the end of a Katana on a front porch.

Sometimes, it comes slowly and almost a welcomed resolution after being tortured.

Sometimes, the ability to choose peace over war is not our own.

December 7, 1941, the Philippine Islands.

RIP Sarge. June 6th, 1976.

Mike

The founders gave us four boxes. We used #1 and no one listened. We will use #2 in 2010 and 2012. Time will tell if it comes to #4.

However, I cannot fathom out Father wanting us to be serfs in the New Order.

Liberty or Death.

Click to expand...

Palmetto echoed my thoughts here.

mt4design said:

Emily, the revolution is ALREADY here.

In fact, the enemy IS mobilized. The enemy IS already engaged. So, like it or not eventually one is going to have to choose sides in order to preserve one's self, one's family, one's future.

And, leaders are born out of necessity and tested by fire. That is just the way it is. Just because Baldwin is moving, feels compelled to warn and stand shoulder to shoulder with like minded people doesn't make him a leader.

BTW, the enemy has leaders, it has foot soldiers already in the field, and they have been fighting. They have fought here in Los Angeles every night for the last three against the LAPD. They fight by marching, engaging in civil unrest and rioting, promoting anarchy, provoking response. They are testing weakness in the lines, probing weakness in the ranks, and they ARE winning.

As to God, I will NOT be one to contemplate or assume what HE wants of me. I will only answer His call.

I would ask you this, if it is God's will that you protect your family would you do it?

If it is God's will that you protect your neighbor, would you do it?

If it is God's will that you protect a stranger, would you do it?

Even if it means you may lose your own life in the process, would you do it?

I've asked myself each of these questions and answered in the affirmative to each. Primarily, because I believe it is not my place to question God's will.

So, then, the last question.

If, across the field, a thousand of your enemy stand ready to end your life, that of your family, your neighbors, and strangers whose only alignment with you is that they find common qualities in your cause, would you fight? Would you be willing to die?

Thus, though it is not your choice to fight, the fight has found you.

Would God not want you to fight against tyranny to ensure your family live on?

The bottom line is that the time and place may not be of our choosing.

The choice to fight or die may not be of our choosing.

Does that mean the only choice is to simply surrender?

As a man who's family lived under tyranny, oppressed and suffering when surrender was the only viable option for survival, I have first hand accounts of what that life is like. And, as a man who's father at the age of 14 put his own life on the line to help his family and this country - living behind enemy lines - I can offer this...

...sometimes, death comes quickly at the end of a Katana on a front porch.

Sometimes, it comes slowly and almost a welcomed resolution after being tortured.

Sometimes, the ability to choose peace over war is not our own.

December 7, 1941, the Philippine Islands.

RIP Sarge. June 6th, 1976.

Mike

Click to expand...

We do not have to presume what God wants - He clearly tells us in His word.
Matthew 5 is a good place to starst.

As for defending myself, I will not take another human life so I guess my life is completely in His hands.

He controls every beat of everyone's heart. No matter where He leads me, I trust Him that it is for His purpose and will serve Him gladly.

Thomas Paine said:

Your premise is based on the idea that the current issues with tyranny are the same ones in the end times.I am a Christian my fate as to the afterlife are already sealed, however it is my belief that I am to take a stand against evil in the earthly realm also. This can be done many ways as there are many types of warriors, some can choose the way of peaceful civil disobedience, others may choose to stand and take the fight to the oppressors of freedom.It all depends on what God puts on/in your heart. I believe we are to STAND for freedom or right or whatever the cause. We are already saved, we should fight for freedom because no man knows that this battle or the next battle is the last great battle and to not fight means we will simply give away what God has provided and we have won with his Davine help and cherished over time.

Click to expand...

I double down with Mr. Paine myself. Emily is right. For Emily. Those ready to fight are right. For them.

The Body of Christ is not all fist. It is not all heart. It is not all feet. It is not all mouth. It is made of many parts each with different functions. It only works when each part does its part and does its part in harmony with the rest of the Body.

We all need to find our place in the Body of Christ and do what we were called to do. My place is as prayer warrior. It is as wrong of me to try to make a Marine fist fight like me, as it would be for a Marine fist to expect me to swing at the enemy in the physical world the same way they do. I do my part, they do theirs (theoretically speaking).

How do we make this work? All of us have to be committed to seeking God and what He would have us as both an aggregate body do, and what each of us as individual parts should do to support that.

To do that compromise will have to be made by all of us because obviously none of us thinks precisely the same. Just as it was when founding the Republic and as Emily described above.

And Betshaya, the one commonality to all the good examples you offered was a strong USA that could be counted on to stand with her friends and allies against all that desired to deprive others of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Unfortunately, those we stood against for all those years have taken seats of power in DC and the USA can no longer be counted on to do right by itself much less by those who desire to do right but need the help and threat of help we used to wield.

Emily said:

We do not have to presume what God wants - He clearly tells us in His word.
Matthew 5 is a good place to starst.

As for defending myself, I will not take another human life so I guess my life is completely in His hands.

He controls every beat of everyone's heart. No matter where He leads me, I trust Him that it is for His purpose and will serve Him gladly.

Click to expand...

Emily, I completely respect your position.

However, I feel compelled to point out that if the men and women stood in the same manner as you in 1776, we would have no new nation.

We would still be beholden to a King, who may or may not allow you to worship in your own way.

And, that is no different than serving another master.

And, that is no different than serving at the will of despots, leftists, socialists - who choose your path for you and dictate whether or not you can worship at all let alone worship in which way you choose.

Men and women have always fought for this nation from it's inception until present day. In that job, they sometimes kill.

If God puts a rifle in my hands, I will do His will just as the archangel I am named after does His will.

If I am going to die, I'm going to die fighting for God and not submit to the army of darkness inspired to kill by the devil himself.

Mike