GOV/MIL Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage

TECH32

Inactive
Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jlMpJGn28kqCcgU-aGcYE_ZHW-ywD996J3NG0

Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage
By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR – 2 hours ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Americans who refuse to buy affordable medical coverage could be hit with fines of more than $1,000 under a health care overhaul bill unveiled Thursday by key Senate Democrats looking to fulfill President Barack Obama's top domestic priority.

The Congressional Budget Office estimated the fines will raise around $36 billion over 10 years. Senate aides said the penalties would be modeled on the approach taken by Massachusetts, which now imposes a fine of about $1,000 a year on individuals who refuse to get coverage. Under the federal legislation, families would pay higher penalties than individuals.

In a revamped health care system envisioned by lawmakers, people would be required to carry health insurance just like motorists must get auto coverage now. The government would provide subsidies for the poor and many middle-class families, but those who still refuse to sign up would face penalties.

Called "shared responsibility payments," the fines would be set at least half the cost of basic medical coverage, according to the legislation.

In 2008, employer-provided coverage averaged $12,680 a year for a family plan, and $4,704 for individual coverage, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation's annual survey. Senate aides, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly, said the cost of the federal plan would be lower but declined to provide specifics.

The legislation would exempt certain hardship cases from fines. The fines would be collected through the income tax system.

The new proposals were released as Congress neared the end of a weeklong July 4 break, with lawmakers expected to quickly take up health care legislation when they return to Washington. With deepening divisions along partisan and ideological lines, the complex legislation faces an uncertain future.

Obama wants a bill this year that would provide coverage to the nearly 50 million Americans who lack it and reduce medical costs.

In a statement, Obama welcomed the legislation, saying it "reflects many of the principles I've laid out, such as reforms that will prohibit insurance companies from refusing coverage for people with pre-existing conditions and the concept of insurance exchanges where individuals can find affordable coverage if they lose their jobs, move or get sick."

The Senate Health Education, Labor and Pensions bill also calls for a government-run insurance option to compete with private plans as well as a $750-per-worker annual fee on larger companies that do not offer coverage to employees.

Sens. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., and Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., said in a letter to colleagues that their revised plan would cost dramatically less than an earlier, incomplete proposal, and help show the way toward coverage for 97 percent of all Americans.

In a conference call with reporters, Dodd said the revised bill had brought "historic reform of health care" closer. He said the bill's public option will bring coverage and benefit decisions driven "not by what generates the biggest profits, but by what works best for American families."

The two senators said the Congressional Budget Office put the cost of the proposal at $611.4 billion over 10 years, down from $1 trillion two weeks ago.

However, the total cost of legislation will rise considerably once provisions are added to subsidize health insurance for the poor through Medicaid. Those additions, needed to ensure coverage for nearly all U.S. residents, are being handled by a separate panel, the Senate Finance Committee. Bipartisan talks on the Finance panel aim to hold the overall price tag to $1 trillion.

The Health Committee could complete its portion of the bill as soon as next week, and the presence of a government health insurance option virtually assures a party-line vote.

In the Senate, the Finance Committee version of the bill is unlikely to include a government-run insurance option. Bipartisan negotiations are centered on a proposal for a nonprofit insurance cooperative as a competitor to private companies.

Three committees are collaborating in the House on legislation expected to come to a vote by the end of July. That measure is certain to include a government-run insurance option.

At their heart, all the bills would require insurance companies to sell coverage to any applicant, without charging higher premiums for pre-existing medical conditions. The poor and some middle-class families would qualify for government subsidies to help with the cost of coverage. The government's costs would be covered by a combination of higher taxes and cuts in projected Medicare and Medicaid spending.
 

brokenwings

Veteran Member
SICK!!! This is so WRONG in so many ways!! It will ruin people who already can't afford health insurance!! May God have mercy!!
 

BigBadBossyDog

Inactive
OUT...OF...CONTROL!!!

And think of all the things that will be declared illegal. Cigarettes? Pepsi? Chocolate? Donuts?

Note they call it a fine. It's a TAX, you fools on the hill!!!
 

Kent

Inactive
OUT...OF...CONTROL!!!

And think of all the things that will be declared illegal. Cigarettes? Pepsi? Chocolate? Donuts?

Note they call it a fine. It's a TAX, you fools on the hill!!!

You are right! Once they control healthcare, they can tell you what is unhealthy.
 

dero50

Veteran Member
BHO and his Czars will punish us all whether we do or don't go along with their every whim. They must keep the slaves humble. :bwl:
 

seven.sixtwo

Inactive
eh...americans will do it. upset for a day or 2, but they really just want their lives to go back to 'normal' and will this appease the terrorists.
 

Kent

Inactive
and beyond that, they will mandate what vaccines you MUST take to continue your medical coverage. mark my words.

THAT never crossed my mind. Of course we will need to be MARKED like an animal to keep track of all the information. I am sure that the mark could be used instead of money too.
 

herbgarden

Veteran Member
Just another way to tax us and keep the Middle class will not see a tax increase lie. Change the name-its a fine,not a tax. It is your choice.:kk2:
 

lectrickitty

Great Great Grandma!
If we can't afford to buy ins. they will take what little money we have? So then what do we have to give up in order to pay their fines, food or utilities??? Oh, hey, I bet they expect us to quit buying clothes and all run around naked!

That's a heck of a plan they got there... be hungry, cold, or naked... or possibly a combination of all 3.
 

Flippper

Time Traveler
If we can't afford to buy ins. they will take what little money we have?
Off you will go to work off your debt at the camps. Someone's got to do it. Everything you do will be illegal so they may pick and choose who they punish *ahem, cough* re-educate.
 

Frugal Bob

Veteran Member
So now we have " Mandatory voluntary" health care.. more socialism:mad: Its about time to lock n load and NOT go quietly into the night.
 

penumbra

centrist member
Ok, call me silly. (I'm sure someone will step forward)
I have a hard time seeing this "in action", really?
 
Ok, call me silly. (I'm sure someone will step forward)
I have a hard time seeing this "in action", really?

Each day this summer, as I drive to work, I think about this great (once-great) country. It's hard to imagine this country without fuel oil--or any oil. I've been reading The Long Emergency, and it's prompted me to put more items on my list--so-called by-products of the oil industry. After all, if we don't have an oil industry, we won't have by-products, right?

Health care, in spite of Obama's obsession with providing it to me, is last on my list of priorities. Housing, electricity, water, and food come first! If there is anything left, I just might want to go see a movie.

How do I survive the roving hoards of zombies? Or is Obama's fascination with vaccination going to solve that problem? Really! I wish Obama had just left health care alone!!!! Any person in the United States (legal or not) can walk into an hospital emergency room and get service--it might not be fun, or pretty, or swift, but it's there.

Never mind...this has me spitting nails. I have to stop...I don't want to break my computer.
 

mistaken1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Remember all those government sponsored announcements, "JUST SAY NO".

Perhaps we should heed them.
 

Vicki

Girls With Guns Member
Anybody here from Massachusetts care to tell us how it's going?

I'm with you Frugal Bob, I will not go quietly.

Vicki
 

NoPlugsNM

Deceased
Ok, call me silly. (I'm sure someone will step forward)
I have a hard time seeing this "in action", really?




I won't call you silly . . but . . that someone should be every citizen stepping forward to put their foot down saying NO WAY is this acceptable - scrap your bogus crap and get off this bandwagon.

As far as having a hard time seeing it 'in action' . . IF people do not wake up and stand up against all this continuing nonsense that has been and is taking place with this rediculous bunch of socialists in DC, it WILL go into action with NO WAY to stop it from taking everyone over and driving them into never-never land financially until the whole population is bankrupt alongside the government.

What the government does not seem to understand is that the overall personal economics of our citizens is very fragile - this kind of demand/mandate goes against the basics of our freedoms to CHOOSE how we spend our incomes, some choice here eh? This is being rammed down our throats or up our butts or both. It will come down to either paying for your medical insurance and or going hungry and loosing the roof over your head. That may well be where the division line is in the not too distant future for most all Americans regardless of what their income level is today. More and more people are being asked to take pay cuts, more and more people are loosing their jobs, more and more people are having their benefits cuts and co-paying for them because employers cannot carry the loads, and the icing on the cake will be to fine you because you cannot afford the insurance so you make the choice to pay your rent/mortgage and eat first.



I'm sorry to have to say this - but some Americans made some truly horrible decisions in the election booth, they really did not get it then, probably still are not getting it now, but SOON they will be getting it big-time and there will be no lube handouts to accompany all this either.


NP
 

Emily

One Day Closer
What do you all think he is getting his 'brown shirts' together for and adding thousands to the payroll at the IRS.

He is waging war and he knows it.
 

Frugal Bob

Veteran Member
I won't call you silly . . but . . that someone should be every citizen stepping forward to put their foot down saying NO WAY is this acceptable - scrap your bogus crap and get off this bandwagon.

As far as having a hard time seeing it 'in action' . . IF people do not wake up and stand up against all this continuing nonsense that has been and is taking place with this rediculous bunch of socialists in DC, it WILL go into action with NO WAY to stop it from taking everyone over and driving them into never-never land financially until the whole population is bankrupt alongside the government.

What the government does not seem to understand is that the overall personal economics of our citizens is very fragile - this kind of demand/mandate goes against the basics of our freedoms to CHOOSE how we spend our incomes, some choice here eh? This is being rammed down our throats or up our butts or both. It will come down to either paying for your medical insurance and or going hungry and loosing the roof over your head. That may well be where the division line is in the not too distant future for most all Americans regardless of what their income level is today. More and more people are being asked to take pay cuts, more and more people are loosing their jobs, more and more people are having their benefits cuts and co-paying for them because employers cannot carry the loads, and the icing on the cake will be to fine you because you cannot afford the insurance so you make the choice to pay your rent/mortgage and eat first.


I'm sorry to have to say this - but some Americans made some truly horrible decisions in the election booth, they really did not get it then, probably still are not getting it now, but SOON they will be getting it big-time and there will be no lube handouts to accompany all this either.


NP

:applaud::applaud::applaud:

On top of all this don't forget if you do stand up and do you patriotic duty shout, protest, just say No. TPTB call us anti-government and terrorist. Just to keep you afraid and in line.
So I say to hell with them and so be It call me what you want. But hear this I will not comply with any socialistic bs and will resist at any and all cost
 
Last edited:

BoatGuy

Inactive
Once upon a time, the government imposed it's will on the people by requiring the use of seat of seat belts. At the time, they proclaimed that it was in the interest of the greater good and that the drain placed on the health care system by people injured in accidents was intolerable to the rest of America. I said then, that if they could pass that law by basing their logic on a financial underpinning, then there was really nothing out of bounds for them to inflict their will upon us. Now, we see once again how this has come true. If this line of thinking continues to make inroads, nothing will be sacred and no rights will remain.
 

Rex Jackson

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I think they sit back and invent ways to distract the people. "People refusing to salute Obama will be sent to the moon"...I can see that one in a few months.

For them to try to afford to enforce this and for them to enforce this period, is insanity.
 

rodeorector

Global Moderator
So this health plan is affordable by whose standards? The only reason anyone would turn it down is because they can't afford it in the first place.

But look on the bright side, a bunch of new tax revenue will be generated. What a country (we have become).
 

Publius

On TB every waking moment
Once upon a time, the government imposed it's will on the people by requiring the use of seat of seat belts. At the time, they proclaimed that it was in the interest of the greater good and that the drain placed on the health care system by people injured in accidents was intolerable to the rest of America. I said then, that if they could pass that law by basing their logic on a financial underpinning, then there was really nothing out of bounds for them to inflict their will upon us. Now, we see once again how this has come true. If this line of thinking continues to make inroads, nothing will be sacred and no rights will remain.

The was political system placating the insurance corporations and threatened the politicians and their families with increased insurance rates and suporting someone other for office the next go around if they did not comply.
 

Loon

Inactive
How is national health coverage managed and paid for in Canada? England? I'm sure there are other countries as well. Do they bill each individual person or how do they make everyone participate? Couldn't we just model some other successful countries health plan? I really don't know and am just asking.

I now pay $310 a month for major medical. I have no optical or dental and pay out of pocket for that. Hubby is on Medicare and pays for that each month out of his social security check. He pays for supplemental insurance to cover what Medicare doesn't. It works well. We've never had a problem with Medicare paying a bill. My 93 year old mom has Medicare too and has been on it for almost 30 years with no problems.

Id' like to see a change. Many families are devestated by huge medical costs. I don't know what the answer is but what we have no just isn't working. We'll soon see millions who have lost their job running out of benefits if they haven't already and unable to pay COBRA costs. What happens to them?
 

NoPlugsNM

Deceased
The only reason anyone would turn it down is because they can't afford it in the first place.



I can more than afford healthcare insurance, I subscribe to none, and I would turn it down, plan on turning it down, I will challenge it and the fines via the courts when/if the time comes that I need to do so.

I have in essence turned it down all my life. My reason for not having it is very simple - I am healthy and have no need to waste my money on something that I do not use.

The few times that I have needed an xray, testing, cast for a broken bone, I have simply reached inot my pocket and paid for the services I received. I have spent less in all those few services combined that it would cost me today to buy a couple months of the insurance. Buying healthcare insurance is a waste of money when you do not use the system.

I can say the same thing for dental insurance and perscription insurance. I don't have them either. The only insurances that I have are automobile and home owners/business owners. The way the economy is going right now, these insurances will be gone when their industry collapses - but wait - they might be too big to fail and Obama will bail them out too.

All this medical/healthcare stuff is, is a guise to bail out another failing industry, but instead of it costing the gov using your tax dollars and having to raise taxes, it will simply be you being forced to spend your own dollars.

When CHANGE becomes enough that people cannot take any more, maybe they will stand up, maybe they will consider making a few CHANGES come the 2010 elections. The problem truly is that the last election results have already and will probably/eventuallly bring about so much CHANGE that ultimatley by 2010 the biggest CHANGE might be that there will be no more voting as all things will be completely CHANGED.



NP
 

BigBadBossyDog

Inactive
If you have a social security number, believe me, they will find you. They will take your paycheck. They will take your home. They will take your car. Liens on everything.

This is NOT a fine. It is a TAX and you will have TAX liens on everything you own or hope to own. If you rent, your landlord pays the fine and your rent goes up.

Health care, mandatory home inspections, it doesn't matter what they come up with. They WILL find you and you will be screwed!

Bank on it!
 

Ender

Inactive
If you have a social security number, believe me, they will find you. They will take your paycheck. They will take your home. They will take your car. Liens on everything.

This is NOT a fine. It is a TAX and you will have TAX liens on everything you own or hope to own. If you rent, your landlord pays the fine and your rent goes up.

Health care, mandatory home inspections, it doesn't matter what they come up with. They WILL find you and you will be screwed!

Bank on it!

Like I said-

Gotta find me first.
 

Laurane

Canadian Loonie
Loon.....

here in Alberta, Canada my senior DH and I have paid ZERO in monthly premiums for a couple of years (it used to be $88) - now nobody pays anything for the monthly cost as all premiums have been dropped. The cost of the program comes from Federal taxes, which are then apportioned to the provinces to administer as they choose (and they add to the cost).

There are basic health care programs that must be implemented, then extras can be added as the province sees fit for their citizens. That is why health care is not the same in each area......we like our coverage in Alberta mainly, and are satisfied with the amount of tax deducted (we are). Ours is about 22% on our income, and some pay much less or much more on a sliding scale. That 22% includes our Provincial tax too, and our property taxes are moderate ($1700 on our 5 acres and older house).

We are not taxed to death as many would believe - .gov has "privatised" many previously administed services (liquor sales, energy admin, licensing) and we find that those costs have gone up, as .gov used to subsidise the cost and administration of them.

When the Medicare program first came in, in 1960's we all were given the option to "opt out" (which meant you couldn't just opt back in) and no bills were ever issued to those people,, but they had to pay the full cost. But we started off paying $40-ish per family, per month, and it would be about $200 per month for a family......if we still had premiums.

Alberta is different from the other provinces in that we have a Heritage Savings Fund with billions in it. This is our "rainy day fund" and we keep having to use part of it to pay down debt only, especially this year with the economy. We are fairly well managed here financially, but suffering somewhat as the energy sector has collapsed and it is one of the two basics our province is funded by, agriculture being the other.

A combined public/private system could be the best for those who choose to do either......it just has to be thought out well, not rushed into, like your president appears to be doing. The difference between our system and your private one, is that the insurance companies in USA provide another level of "bureaucracy" and cost to the programs.

In AZ after a hospital procedure there (costing $6000), which was covered by private travel insurance we had purchased in Canada, the hospital called and said that if we paid in full in 24 hours, they would halve the bill. Something is really wrong there with a 100% inflated cost built into the hospital billing. Our insurance paid the bill, but they only paid about 30% of the cost (our insurance agent told me the figure) - so hospitals are charging the retail client much more than is necessary for them to make a profit.

Definitely something needs revamping.
 

mistaken1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Once upon a time, the government imposed it's will on the people by requiring the use of seat of seat belts. At the time, they proclaimed that it was in the interest of the greater good and that the drain placed on the health care system by people injured in accidents was intolerable to the rest of America. I said then, that if they could pass that law by basing their logic on a financial underpinning, then there was really nothing out of bounds for them to inflict their will upon us. Now, we see once again how this has come true. If this line of thinking continues to make inroads, nothing will be sacred and no rights will remain.

Socialism is evil.

Instead of providing the individual the freedom to choose their own actions and the freedom to accept the consequences of those actions socialists make the rest of society cover for the individuals bad choices (at the point of a gun mind you). Once they have society pickng up the bill then the socialist claims the 'right' to tell the individual how to live in order to 'reduce the burden on society'. The socialist claims total control over the individual for the good of society but what goes unspoken is that it is the socialist dictators and his/her henchmen/henchwomen that 'decide' what is good for society. Total control over all human activities.........

Pure evil.
 

Loon

Inactive
Thanks for taking the time to explain that. Sounds like a good system and I agree that Obama should not rush into anything without a well thought out and proven plan. Perhaps try it out in one state as a test or something before putting the whole country on it.
 

VesperSparrow

Goin' where the lonely go
I do NOT go to a doc as it is.

I can barely pay my MANDATED car insurance!!!

And NOW these assholes want to FORCE us to pay even MORE?!?!!!!!

I predict a NASTY ending.
 

Army Girl

Inactive
How will it be inforced? Show up at the emergency room/doc. office and not have insurance = your information turned in for processing the 1000 dollar fine?

Just like car inspections and tags, have to have insurance first.
 

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
Alberta is different from the other provinces in that we have a Heritage Savings Fund with billions in it. This is our "rainy day fund" and we keep having to use part of it to pay down debt only, especially this year with the economy. We are fairly well managed here financially, but suffering somewhat as the energy sector has collapsed and it is one of the two basics our province is funded by, agriculture being the other.

BINGO!!! Laurane... what is the population of Alberta? I've heard the same "oh, it's wonderful care!" song and dance from another Alberta resident over the years, but he refuses to admit that in many other provinces (the more highly populated ones with fewer natural resources) the story is VERY different.

CanadaSue who used to post here didn't have a doctor for over 10 YEARS, and she lived in Kingston, Ontario...fairly close to Toronto, etc. She ended up having a NINE POUND uterine tumor removed (and as she mentioned, she's tiny... around 105#),,, because it finally got SO bad the ER was able to diagnose it!

And yes, her care *when they got around to doing it* was good. (well, except for the massive hematoma which developed in the incision)

The truth is, there isn't enough wealth in the world to provide every single one of the 300million + Americans with the latest and greatest, highest technology medicine. I'm not going to call it 'health care" because it's NOT... it's treating disease... and much of that could be prevented. But as unpopular as it will be, there is going to have to be some massive changes, and unfortunately, the LAST people we want making the decisions are government bureaucrats! I can't imagine how anyone who sees how corrupt and screwed up the US government is could want THEM deciding whether or not they get treatment!!

And using age as a criteria isn't the answer... I know people in their 90's who still live independently, keep their own house, grow their own food, and take no medication at all. Are we going to tell them they can't have a hip replacement if they slip and fall while shoveling their walk in the winter, because they're "too old"?

But.. I also know 50 year olds with several severe, chronic TERMINAL conditions, and some of them haven't ever done a damned thing they weren't forced. They are leeches, pure and simple, and the best thing that ever happened to them (in their own words) was getting their SSI or SSDI... so they now sit home and drink beer all day. (yes, real people, and I could name names.. but it's irrelevant to this board, as you wouldn't know them)

I don't know the answer... the real problem started when health insurance became popular. From then on, medical costs have skyrocketed, and too often, it was due to CYA and lawsuit prevention, rather than any real patient benefit.

Summerthyme
 
Top