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HEALTH The U.S. can slash health-care costs 75% with 2 fundamental changes
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  1. #1
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    The U.S. can slash health-care costs 75% with 2 fundamental changes

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/th...all-2019-08-15


    Opinion: The U.S. can slash health-care costs 75% with 2 fundamental changes — and without ‘Medicare for All’
    By Sean Masaki Flynn
    Published: Nov 9, 2019 2:05 p.m. ET

    Fund the HSA deductible, as Indiana and Whole Foods do, and put real prices on everything

    As the Democratic presidential candidates argue about “Medicare for All” versus a “public option,” two simple policy changes could slash U.S. health-care costs by 75% while increasing access and improving the quality of care.
    These policies have been proven to work by ingenious companies like Whole Foods and innovative governments like the state of Indiana and Singapore. If they were rolled out nationally, the United States would save $2.4 trillion per year across individuals, businesses, and the government.

    The first policy—price tags—is a necessary prerequisite for competition and efficiency. Under our current system, it’s nearly impossible for people with health insurance to find out in advance what anything covered by their insurance will end up costing. Patients have no way to comparison shop for procedures covered by insurance, and providers are under little pressure to lower costs.

    By contrast, there is intense competition among the providers of medical services like LASIK eye surgery that aren’t covered by health insurance. For those procedures, providers must compete for market share and profits by figuring out ways to improve efficiency and lower prices. They must also advertise to get customers in the door, and must ensure high quality to generate customer loyalty and benefit from word of mouth.
    That’s why the price of LASIK eye surgery, as just one example, has fallen so dramatically even as quality has soared. Adjusted for inflation, LASIK cost nearly $4,000 per eye when it made its debut in the 1990s. These days, the average price is around $2,000 per eye and you can get it done for as little as $1,000 on sale.

    By contrast, ask yourself what a colonoscopy or knee replacement will cost you. There’s no way to tell.

    Price tags also insure that everybody pays the same amount. We currently have a health-care system in which providers charge patients wildly different prices depending on their insurance. That injustice will end if we insist on legally mandated price tags and require that every patient be charged the same price.

    As a side benefit, we will also see massively lower administrative costs. They are currently extremely high because once a doctor submits a bill to an insurance company, the insurance company works hard to deny or discount the claim. Thus begins a hideously costly and drawn-out negotiation that eventually yields the dollar amount that the doctor will get reimbursed. If you have price tags for every procedure and require that every patient be charged the same price, all of that bickering and chicanery goes away. As does the need for gargantuan bureaucracies to process claims.

    What happened in Indiana
    The second policy—deductible security—pairs an insurance policy that has an annual deductible with a health savings account (HSA) that the policy’s sponsor funds each year with an amount equal to the annual deductible.

    The policy’s sponsor can be either a private employer like Whole Foods (now part of Amazon. AMZN, -0.86% ), which has been doing this since 2002, or a government entity like the state of Indiana, which has been offering deductible security to its employees since 2007.

    While Indiana offers its workers a variety of health-care plans, the vast majority opt for the deductible security plan, under which the state covers the premium and then gifts $2,850 into each employee’s HSA every year.

    Since that amount is equal to the annual deductible, participants have money to pay for out-of-pocket expenses. But the annual gifts do more than ensure that participants are financially secure; they give people skin in the game. Participants spend prudently because they know that any unspent HSA balances are theirs to keep. The result? Massively lower health-care spending without any decrement to health outcomes.

    We know this because Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels ordered a study that tracked health-care spending and outcomes for state employees during the 2007-to-2009 period when deductible security was first offered. Employees choosing this plan were, for example, 67% less likely to go to high-cost emergency rooms (rather than low-cost urgent care centers.) They also spent $18 less per prescription because they were vastly more likely to opt for generic equivalents rather than brand-name medicines.

    Those behavioral changes resulted in 35% lower health-care spending than when the same employees were enrolled in traditional health insurance. Even better, the study found that employees enrolled in the deductible security plan were going in for mammograms, annual check ups, and other forms or preventive medicine at the same rate as when they were enrolled in traditional insurance. Thus, these cost savings are real and not due to people delaying necessary care in order to hoard their HSA balances.

    By contrast, the single-payer “Medicare for All” proposal that is being pushed by Bernie Sanders and Kamala Harris would create a health-care system in which consumers never have skin in the game and in which prices are hidden for every procedure.

    That lack of skin in the game will generate an expenditure explosion. We know this because when Oregon randomized 10,000 previously uninsured people into single-payer health insurance starting in 2008, the recipients’ annual health-care spending jumped 36% without any statistically significant improvements in health outcomes.

    Look at Singapore
    By contrast, if we were to require price tags in addition to deductible security, the combined savings would amount to about 75% of what we are paying now for health care.

    We know this to be true because while price tags and deductible security were invented in the United States, only one country has had the good sense to roll them out nationwide. By doing so, Singapore is able to deliver universal coverage and the best health outcomes in the world while spending 77% less per capita than the United States and about 60% less per capita than the United Kingdom, Canada, Japan, and other advanced industrial economies.

    Providers post prices in Singapore, and people have plenty of money in their HSA balances to cover out-of-pocket expenses. As in the United States, regulators set coverage standards for private insurance companies, which then accept premiums and pay for costs in excess of the annual deductible. The government also directly pays for health care for the indigent.
    The result is a system in which government spending constitutes about half of all health-care spending, as is the case in the United States. But because prices are so much lower, the Singapore government spends only about 2.4% of GDP on health care. By contrast, government health-care spending in the United States runs at 8% of GDP.

    With Singapore’s citizenry empowered by deductible security and price tags, competition has worked its magic, forcing providers to constantly figure out ways to lower costs and improve quality. The result is not only 77% less spending than the United States but also, as Bloomberg Businessweek reports, one of the healthiest populations in the world.

    If we are going to be serious about squashing health-care costs and improving the quality of care, we need to foster intense competition among health-care providers to win business from consumers who are informed, empowered and protected from financial surprises. Price tags and deductible security are the only polices that accomplish all of these goals.

    I hope that politicians on both sides of the aisle will get behind these proven solutions. Washington should not be a place where good ideas go to die.

    Sean Masaki Flynn is an associate professor of economics at Scripps College and the author of “Economics for Dummies” and, most recently, “The Cure That Works; How to have the world’s best health care — at a quarter of the price.”
    The wonder of our time isn’t how angry we are at politics and politicians; it’s how little we’ve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  2. #2
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    The healthcare crisis can be eliminated with one easy step.

    Get rid of everyone over fifty
    Tax the rich, feed the poor, til there are, rich no more - Ten Years After
    Surely you're not saying we have the resources to save the poor from their lot. -JCSS
    Friend, you cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. And what one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government can't give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody.

  3. #3
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    Get rid of everyone over fifty


    Well, that would solve my problems anyway
    The wonder of our time isn’t how angry we are at politics and politicians; it’s how little we’ve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by dstraito View Post
    The healthcare crisis can be eliminated with one easy step.

    Get rid of everyone over fifty
    Yes, you are correct. And then they can keep looting social security- they've had their fingers in the cookie jar- if no one gets old enough to collect.
    https://safeg.net/home A Safe Alternative to Harmful 5G Wireless

    Matthew 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

  5. #5
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    Soylent Green would take care of that.

    If that case, I'm living for 15 years past my due date.

    Michael

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by dstraito View Post
    The healthcare crisis can be eliminated with one easy step.

    Get rid of everyone over fifty
    Or over 30...just like Logan’s Run.

    I’m almost 57, my children are grown and married, so...

    However, if we get rid of everyone over 30, the vast majority of experience and wisdom will be gone too.

    That’ll mean, learning things the (really) hard way, lost knowledge, life would indeed be short and brutal!

    “Every time a old person dies, a Library burns.”

  7. #7
    I don't like getting rid of over 50 either. I still haven't figured out what I want to be when I grow up!

  8. #8
    it would be solved simply by making health insurance illegal.

    they don't want it to be cheaper
    Consider the ravens, for they neither sow nor reap, which have neither storehouse nor barn; and God feeds them. Of how much more value are you than a pesky raven?
    It is difficult to stand idly by and watch the vacuum of ignorance being filled with lies

  9. #9
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    A friend of mine spent about 3 years IN SINGAPORE assisting with a records and information retention program install for a company he was working for. And it really IS a CASH ON THE BARRELHEAD system.

    If you can't pay cash for that MRI you won't GET that MRI, REGARDLESS of the change in or accuracy of your diagnosis and treatment.
    "EHR KUMT"

    RULE 1:
    THEY want you DEAD.

  10. #10
    Get the government out of healthcare and all private businesses. Remove 99% of all payroll liabilities and personal liabilities.

    Granted if a doctor kills over half his/her patients there should be some oversite to remove said doctor from that or any industry. We have a huge information devise in our hands. The citizens should publicly rate all services. You want really cheap something, go with the guy/gal who has a bad history and take your chanches.

    If the private sector was in charge of healthcare and policed by the public, healthcare would cost way less. Good Doctors could take home more money for even less services.

    Right now 70+% of cost is in government mandated insurances, taxes, and payroll liabilities. Good doctors and health services or any public industry/services is inflated at least 70% to cover mandated insurances, liabilities and payroll taxes/compliances.

  11. #11
    Posting prices in advance is always a good idea but the rest of the proposals would crash the economy and virtually destroy healthcare for all but the rich. Healthcare is a major industry and that would cease without enough dollars coming in. It is the same with Medicare for all. Medicare reimbursements are not high enough to keep hospitals or doctors in business. Think about it. Most doctors limit the number of Medicare patients they see and some won't accept any. If Medicare is so good, why do we not see Hospitals and doctors who only treat Medicare patients? After all, there is a huge population of seniors and a steady stream of patients.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dstraito View Post
    The healthcare crisis can be eliminated with one easy step.

    Get rid of everyone over fifty
    ds,

    Think about open season with no tags required on all males under 50 which would cure lots of problems since most crimes are committed by those under 50....

    There is a cure to most problems, but the cure may be more horrific than the problem....

    Texican....

  13. #13
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    Have Medicare available (for a fee) to all people who are not-insurable by normal health insurance plans. Then every healthy person would pay much much less for their same insurance.

  14. #14
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    Get rid of O care, when it started facilities had to spend big bucks for lawyers in order to be/remain compliant to they wouldn't be hit with penalties. Much of the computerization is for that reason also and has nothing to do with caring for the sick.

  15. #15
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    i have seriously pissed off local hospitals by posting I charge 90 per PT session while they charge 390 for same

  16. #16
    Tort Reform and eliminating all forms of lobbying would take care of it.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by night driver View Post
    A friend of mine spent about 3 years IN SINGAPORE assisting with a records and information retention program install for a company he was working for. And it really IS a CASH ON THE BARRELHEAD system.

    If you can't pay cash for that MRI you won't GET that MRI, REGARDLESS of the change in or accuracy of your diagnosis and treatment.
    Yea and the MRI probably cost less the 300 dollars.
    "When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law." ~ Frederic Bastiilt

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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenwick Babbitt View Post
    Tort Reform and eliminating all forms of lobbying would take care of it.
    That might take care of the ambulance chasers and professional political bribe artists, but the oversized medical admin bureaucracy between the patient and the care-giver would still be fat with profits - AND, the health insurance companies would still remain rapacious as ever in their profit-versus-sickness "got-you-over-the-barrel" predatory pricing practices.

    Accurate published prices for healthcare procedures and services would put J6P in the driver's seat, for the first time - and, real capitalism could prevail to the benefit of all wishing to remain affordably healthy and whole.


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  19. #19
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    From your lips to Trumps brain.
    Seems like the Donald reads here.
    Trump just issued a directive that requires hospitals to list prices beginning Jan 2021



    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...parency-rules/

    Donald Trump Announces Revolutionary Healthcare Transparency Rules

    691Zach Gibson/Getty ImagesCharlie Spiering16 Nov 2019947 2:15
    President Donald Trump announced a new rule requiring hospitals to publish their prices for services publicly, allowing customers to make more informed choices.

    “For decades, hospitals, insurance companies, lobbyists, and special interests have hidden prices from consumers so they could drive up costs for you,” Trump said. “And you had no idea what was happening. You’d get bills that were unbelievable and you have no idea why.”
    The finalized price transparency rule, implemented in January 2021, requires hospitals to disclose negotiated rates with insurance companies.
    The president cited incidents of patients being charged exorbitantly high prices for MRIs and having a baby, even charging outrageous prices for a simple blood test.
    “We’re stopping American patients from just getting, pure and simple — two words, very simple words: ripped off,” Trump said. “Because they’ve been ripped off for years. ”
    The president also announced a proposed rule requiring insurers to tell patients their expected costs prior to the services.
    Trump welcomed Dr. Art Laffer to the White House event to talk about the significance of the new rule.
    “This is the biggest revolution I’ve seen in generations,” Laffer said. “As opposed to most revolutions, this revolution saves lives; it doesn’t cost lives.”
    Laffer said that the health industry was in need of transparency reform, allowing patients to get better service.
    The president’s effort to repeal and replace Obamacare was successfully blocked despite Republicans having a majority in the House of Representatives in the first two years of his term. But Trump has worked within the system to make important regulatory reforms to make the cost of health care more transparent.
    Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar praised the president’s actions.
    “The changes you described, what we’re doing at HHS, will be revolutionary to our healthcare system — perhaps the biggest single change that President Trump has made to Americans’ healthcare experience,” he said.
    “I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.”
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  20. #20
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    ..tort reform
    "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." George Orwell

  21. #21
    Allowing insurance companies to step across state lines would also provide more competition.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinecone View Post
    I don't like getting rid of over 50 either. I still haven't figured out what I want to be when I grow up!
    Me neither, Pinecone. Been saying that for many years. Turned 60 this year and realized it's time to throw in the towel.
    And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. Luke 21:28

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  23. #23
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    https://www.oftwominds.com/blognov19...cket11-19.html

    Medicare-for-All "Socialism" Is Just Another Racket
    November 15, 2019

    The entire system of health needs to be re-organized from the ground up, and funding the rackets will only speed the collapse of the system.

    The core problem with "socialist" proposals such as Medicare-for-All is that they don't actually fix what's broken--they just expand existing rackets such as the healthcare/sickcare racket, the higher education racket, and so on.

    Let's start by separating "real socialism" (state ownership of the means of production) from "faux socialism" (the state borrows trillions of dollars to fund self-serving public-private rackets).

    The basic idea of classic socialism is that state ownership of the means of production enables the state to harvest the surplus production and invest it in the public good. If the state is organized as a democracy, then the public gets a say in defining "the public good" and changing course if the national surplus is being mal-invested or diverted into the hands of the few under the guise of "the public good."

    What's being labeled "socialist" in present-day U.S.A. is nothing more than the state borrowing from future generations to fund profiteering rackets today. It's hardly a secret that the U.S. spends twice as much per person on healthcare but trails the pack of other developed nations in actual health. (See infographic below for the facts, which I have discussed here for 14 years.)

    Problem #1 is robust health isn't profitable, while managing chronic lifestyle diseases and pushing needless/harmful medications and procedures are immensely profitable.
    Problem #2 is the external costs of destructive but oh-so-profitable products are not paid by either producers or consumers at the point of purchase. The tobacco industry offers an example of this decoupling of "price discovery" and externalities that manifest years or decades later.

    Selling tobacco was and is an enormously profitable venture, but only because the full costs of tobacco use manifest many years after the products are purchased and consumed, and these costs do not fall on the tobacco producers but on the consumers (who suffer terrible health consequences and early death), and on the healthcare system and society at large, which must absorb the staggering direct cost of dealing with the diseases caused by tobacco addiction and the indirect costs of lost productivity and early death.

    For every $1 of profit the tobacco companies earned, $100 of future external costs were imposed on the consumers of tobacco and society at large. If the full external costs were levied at the point of sale, tobacco would be extremely expensive, and if the true risks had been advertised as heavily as the products themselves, the tobacco companies' liability exposure would have made the packaging and selling of tobacco an unprofitable business.

    To maintain profitability, the tobacco companies engaged in a decades-long campaign to mask the real-world health consequences of using their products. The goal was three-fold: hide the well-known consequences of tobacco addiction, maintain that tobacco wasn't addictive, and maintain that it wasn't unhealthy, decoupling the sale of tobacco from the eventual costs.

    The same dynamic is in play with America's food industry. Garbage in, garbage out: garbage "food" in, garbage health out.

    This plays perfectly into sickcare's PR, which is that there is a magic handful of oh-so-profitable pills one can swallow to "fix" all the disorders caused by a garbage diet and near-zero fitness. And in case your doctor didn't adequately explain the wunnerful benefits of the magic handful of oh-so-profitable pills, Big Pharma helpfully spends billions of dollars on ads to promote a magical-thinking belief that some new med or procedure will "fix" complex, inter-connected metabolic disorders created by poor diet and an absence of fitness.

    Medicare-for-All is simply a way to fund the racket as painlessly as possible, which is to borrow from future generations to fund profiteering rackets in Big Ag, Big Pharma, Big Packaged Food/Fast Food, and so on--the equivalents of Big Tobacco.

    Just as smokers were encouraged to kill themselves without being aware of the eventual consequences of tobacco addiction, consumers of highly processed foods are killing themselves without being aware of the eventual consequences.

    The promoters of Medicare-for-All offer a Band-Aid to fund the racketeering nature of U.S. healthcare: we're gonna tax the billionaires and they'll pay for the racket. It would be comical if it wasn't so painfully obvious that in our pay-to-play political circus, any new tax bill will be larded with exceptions and loopholes.

    Let's say the "tax the rich" proposals raise $50 billion -- woohoo. But this is a drop in the bucket of additional costs incurred by Medicare-for-All, which could easily top $500 billion a year.

    Nobody pushing Medicare-for-All dares connect the dots between garbage in, garbage out lifestyles and an unsustainably costly healthcare system of gargantuan waste, fraud, shameless profiteering, needless/harmful med and procedures, etc., a system which consumes twice as much money per person as our developed-world competitors for a measure of national health that is, if we're honest with ourselves (gasp), actually declining.

    The entire system of health needs to be re-organized from the ground up, and funding the rackets will only speed the collapse of the system.

    The wonder of our time isn’t how angry we are at politics and politicians; it’s how little we’ve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  24. #24
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    A couple of simple solutions I think to help a lot. No drug can cost more in the US than it does anywhere else in the world. By a drug here like Imatrex and then go to say Mexico and by the same drug, in the same packaging and you will see a huge difference in price. And no I don't believe the FDA makes the drug safer in the US than it does for the same drug in Mexico, Canada, etc.

    Next don't allow companies to extend patents on drugs by changing one inactive molecule to prevent generics from hitting the market.

    Finally quit forcing people to go to see a costly doctor to get a script for a common ailment like a sinus infection. My last several trips to the quack, I went in, told her what my issue was and what I should get, based on last visit, and she said I was right. Was a complete waste of time and money to get that which I already knew I needed.
    Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who kept their swords.

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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSTemplar View Post
    Yea and the MRI probably cost less the 300 dollars.
    Close. Quick Internet search says $400.
    Now is the time for the American people to wake up and realize that we have been the only ones holding up the agreement between government and people.

  26. #26
    I paid $800 for two blood test. In the private sector labs that don't do Medicare work charge only $200 for the same test.

    My walk in doctor sent my blood to a lab that does mostly Medicare patients test. Because medicare only pays a percentage of the bill, the lab charges in this case 400% more.

    I'm a cash patient so I get screwed. F$$k Government BS healthcare! It's evil!

    Sorry I killed let another thread.
    Last edited by West; 11-17-2019 at 10:33 AM.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squib View Post
    Or over 30...just like Logan’s Run.

    I’m almost 57, my children are grown and married, so...

    However, if we get rid of everyone over 30, the vast majority of experience and wisdom will be gone too.

    That’ll mean, learning things the (really) hard way, lost knowledge, life would indeed be short and brutal!

    “Every time a old person dies, a Library burns.”
    Many Indigenous Indian tribes had a similar way of dealing with the elderly. Once past 50 or so, you got left to fend for yourself and starve.
    That kept the tribe young and healthy.
    Ironic if that is what we are going back to.
    "Dark and difficult times lie ahead. Soon we will all face the choice between what is right, and what is easy."
    Dumbledore to Harry Potter, Goblet of Fire.

    Luke 21:36

    A people who no longer recognize sin and evil, are not a people who will recognize tyranny and despotism either. Invar


    “During the course of your life you will find that things are not always fair. You will find that things happen to you that you do not deserve and that are not always warranted. But you have to put your head down and fight, fight, fight. Never, ever, ever give up!”

    - President Donald J. Trump

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by West View Post
    I paid $800 for two blood test. In the private sector labs that don't do Medicare work charge only $200 for the same test.

    My walk in doctor sent my blood to a lab that does mostly Medicare patients test. Because medicare only pays a percentage of the bill, the lab charges in this case 400% more.

    I'm a cash patient so I get screwed. F$$k Government BS healthcare! It's evil!

    Sorry I killed let another thread.
    West - thanks for illustrating this important point regarding walk-in "cash" pricing schedules for routine procedures/services - you are quite correct.

    Have a medical doctor acquaintance who noted this specific issue, over a decade ago, with regards to how he was forced to price his practice's services per Medicare/Medicaid rules - if he did not follow the Medicare/Medicaid pricing guidelines and rules, his practice would have been penalized.


    intothegoodnight
    "Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

    — Dylan Thomas, "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night"

  29. #29
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    What about drug prices?

    Find out what European countries and others pay for every drug and then say Americans will only pay those amounts.

    If it's fair for Europe, India, etc....it's fair for Americans.

    Those drug companies count on our insurance companies paying these atrocious prices...and many Americans pay out of pocket with no insurance. This affects our premiums for health care.

    Not fair.

    Then limit the years on brand drugs - some countries have limited it to 3 years - ours is 4 times that! So we can't get generics out to the public. And the drug companies have HUGE profits!

    A friend of mine has worked in numerous positions at several major drug companies - she said they price their drugs to pay for themselves in 3 years (with Americans flipping the majority of that bill) - research and all. Three years is long enough. If you don't like it, sell your drug to Brazil.

    President Obama promised to get rid of lobbyists...he didn't. The drug lobbyists are probably the biggest lobbyists in DC - huge bribes to congressmen to help keep the drug prices up. Ex. Why can't Medicare negotiate drug prices?
    "Apres la Guerre."

  30. #30
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    Also, after working as a Medical Technologist for years in various hospitals...the lab knows exactly how much a lab test costs. I've seen labs charge a fair price and I've seen them charge out the wazoo!

    I know that some hospitals are offering blood work for super low prices without a doctor's request...just show up at the lab and ask for the test. I've seen prices from $10 to $30 for individual tests and panels. You get the results privately and usually less than a co-pay to get a doctor to order the test.

    Also, some doctor's offices are offering drugs cheap right there in their office. I was told they don't make any money on these drugs, but they are being offered when needed right there after your appointment. Now that's genius!!! Prices I've seen are $10 to rarely, $30 per prescription depending on the drug.

    Same thing for vets - they'll charge your 200% what the test costs them to send it out. So if you can get your dog's blood work done directly at a university vet school - do it.

    I would like to see more drugs offered at doctor's offices. And more blood test kits for sale to the public. That heart monitoring device for sale for $99 saves going to the doctor every time you think something is going on. You can get the results yourself and send them to your doctor if need be. People aren't as naive about drugs/tests/equipment as they use to be.
    Last edited by Chance; 11-17-2019 at 01:42 PM.
    "Apres la Guerre."

  31. LOVE the price tag thing. It’s so true! Why is it with every single other thing or service in this world, we can know the price ahead of time? Dental surgery. New roof. Groceries. A new car. A new house. LASIK. Plastic surgery. A gym membership. Cable TV. You name it. You can always find out the price ahead of time, and if you think it’s too high, then shop around for a better deal. Not so with health care!

    Case in point, my husband had to get a set of rabies shots this past summer. When checking into the hospital (it was a weekend, and the urgent care clinics didn’t have the shots), he asked the registration gal and the nurse how much it was going to cost. Neither of them could tell him. It was a very specific thing, no diagnostics or evaluations needed. He simply got bit by a wild animal during the day, and wanted to get the shots to be on the safe side. The dosage consisted of four doses, each shot into his arm over a three-day period. Each time he went in, he asked again. “How much will this cost?” Each time they all said said they didn’t know.

    Three weeks later, the bill came. $15,000, 90% of which the insurance company paid for. We almost fell over. Seriously??? It was almost like they threw a dart or played some kind of spin the wheel game to come up with an amount to invoice. Utterly ridiculous. Of course, after the fact you can’t do anything about it.

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    On top of the Mountain
    Posts
    24,203
    Quote Originally Posted by Chance View Post
    Also, after working as a Medical Technologist for years in various hospitals...the lab knows exactly how much a lab test costs. I've seen labs charge a fair price and I've seen them charge out the wazoo!

    I know that some hospitals are offering blood work for super low prices without a doctor's request...just show up at the lab and ask for the test. I've seen prices from $10 to $30 for individual tests and panels. You get the results privately and usually less than a co-pay to get a doctor to order the test.

    Also, some doctor's offices are offering drugs cheap right there in their office. I was told they don't make any money on these drugs, but they are being offered when needed right there after your appointment. Now that's genius!!! Prices I've seen are $10 to rarely, $30 per prescription depending on the drug.

    Same thing for vets - they'll charge your 200% what the test costs them to send it out. So if you can get your dog's blood work done directly at a university vet school - do it.

    I would like to see more drugs offered at doctor's offices. And more blood test kits for sale to the public. That heart monitoring device for sale for $99 saves going to the doctor every time you think something is going on. You can get the results yourself and send them to your doctor if need be. People aren't as naive about drugs/tests/equipment as they use to be.
    STTM (Stop the thyroid madness) site has a place folks can get their labs done cheap.
    "Dark and difficult times lie ahead. Soon we will all face the choice between what is right, and what is easy."
    Dumbledore to Harry Potter, Goblet of Fire.

    Luke 21:36

    A people who no longer recognize sin and evil, are not a people who will recognize tyranny and despotism either. Invar


    “During the course of your life you will find that things are not always fair. You will find that things happen to you that you do not deserve and that are not always warranted. But you have to put your head down and fight, fight, fight. Never, ever, ever give up!”

    - President Donald J. Trump

  33. #33
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    33,300
    This is my take without knowing much about the complex US heatlhcare system.

    In the UK there are no Insurance Companies who are part of the NHS process, you are assessed by your Dr. NB there is private health insurance where you would be but the vast majority of people don't have it. Healthcare professionals are not as highly paid as in the US, except maybe for certain roles such as specialised surgeons.You are less likely to have tests etc on a regular basis if you do not have a health problem. The standard of healthcare is pretty basic based on need, there are no bells or whistles, there is a limited provision of preventative measures such as flu, pneumonia and shingles jabs available to certain categories of people.

    The costs savings are not having to pay for Insurance Companies and lower cost of healthcare provision due to lower salaries and running costs.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    SE Georgia
    Posts
    5,178
    Quote Originally Posted by poppy View Post
    Posting prices in advance is always a good idea but the rest of the proposals would crash the economy and virtually destroy healthcare for all but the rich. Healthcare is a major industry and that would cease without enough dollars coming in. It is the same with Medicare for all. Medicare reimbursements are not high enough to keep hospitals or doctors in business. Think about it. Most doctors limit the number of Medicare patients they see and some won't accept any. If Medicare is so good, why do we not see Hospitals and doctors who only treat Medicare patients? After all, there is a huge population of seniors and a steady stream of patients.
    From what my parents tell me medicare is horrible.

    My mother is getting a knee replaced next week. She has no idea of the cost, but since she has back up medical insurance, she should be fine. Yet the doctor visits are killing her. Go in one day to get the exam and come back another day to get the results. Even though the results are right there in real time. Why, medicare and insurance call it one visit and pay the minimum if you do both on the same day. so in order to get paid they break the visits up. 10 minutes one day and 10 minutes the next, with 1 hour waits to see the doctor each time.

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by intothatgoodnight View Post
    West - thanks for illustrating this important point regarding walk-in "cash" pricing schedules for routine procedures/services - you are quite correct.

    Have a medical doctor acquaintance who noted this specific issue, over a decade ago, with regards to how he was forced to price his practice's services per Medicare/Medicaid rules - if he did not follow the Medicare/Medicaid pricing guidelines and rules, his practice would have been penalized.


    intothegoodnight
    It's sickening. Healthcare that kills. Paying the bills that kill, by mandate.

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