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OP-ED Thoughts On Civil War
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  1. #1
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    4 Thoughts On Civil War

    https://www.theburningplatform.com/2...-on-civil-war/

    Thoughts On Civil War
    Guest Post by The Zman

    A prevailing assumption in all of outsider politics, both Left and Right, is that America is headed for a civil war. The details are not all that clear, but that is the assumption. Even the mainstream political types think it is possible. A regular part of Tucker Carlson’s act is to warn his fellow political elites that they better shape up or the else. From time to time polls are done that show Americans are increasingly sure that a civil war is the most probable outcome for the turmoil and conflict of the current year.

    At first blush, it is not a silly assumption. After all, empires tend to end in violence, either they are conquered or break apart. Even if you think America is some sort of exception when it comes to being an empire, every society is racked with conflict. It has been over 150 years since the United States has had serious internal distension. The closest to a revolt was the Civil Rights Movement, but the blacks were easily bought off after some protests and riots. America seems due for a violent adjustment.

    Further, the far Left assumes they will win such a conflict. How is never explained, as most are noodle armed sissies, but they probably think they will have the full support of the police, like they see at their protests. Maybe the cops will side with the far Left in an armed conflict. If it means keeping their pensions and benefit packages, that’s probably a safe bet. On the other hand, history says police forces tend to scatter quickly when order falters to the point where there is fighting in the streets.

    Many on the far Right make the same assumption as the Left, with regards to the outcome, owing to the fact that most of the guns are owned by whites. Those noodle armed Antifa sissies and their mouthy women would not last long in a fair fight, much less an armed fight. That’s certainly true, but if they did have the cops fighting for them that would be different. Then there is the fact that the same people controlling Antifa also run the military, so the gun disparity would change quickly.

    The main trouble with the civic war bogeyman is no one bothers to imagine how it would be conjured in the first place. Civil wars are fights between two or more factions, led by members of the elite. The American Civil War was a fight between New England elites and Southern elites. Modern elites, not just in America, but across the West are in lockstep on every important topic. It is inconceivable that they would take up arms against one another. If anything, they will take up arms against the people.

    That leaves open the other option for a social war. An armed rebellion of some sort, maybe due to divisions within society that the elites can no longer contain. The Antifa media, for example, harasses the wrong people and the result is organized white terrorism against Progressive targets. Alternatively, the media agitation results in some left-wing street protesters moving from theater to violence. The media did convince that guy to shoot up the Republican softball game a few years back.

    The trouble with the rebellion scenario is that a decent rebellion has to be led by people capable of organizing a lot of people. The structure of the Left precludes a rebellion from that side of politics. They control the institutions and the rank and file lack the will and brainpower to go it alone. The Left is not going to revolt against itself, so they will continue to ratchet up their terrorism against everyone else. Red flag laws, for example, will be used to jail dissidents in the near future.

    Outside of left-wing circles, organizing a rebellion seems less likely. Blacks like to riot and they have some reason to rebel against the prevailing order. History says they will just burn down their own neighborhoods and loots some local stores. Hispanics seem to be the most passive group in America. As long as they have cheap food and cheap entertainment, they are not rebelling. The squalor of America beats the squalor of back home, so getting them angry enough to rebel seems implausible.

    If there is to be a rebellion, it will be among whites, but whites are far from being a monolithic group like blacks. There are regional divides, as well as class divides, which are easily exploited by the people in charge. Ruling class whites, for example, hate all lower class whites. That’s part of what motivated the FBI to spy on the Trump people in the last election. It’s why the IRS harassed white people in the 2012 election. Ruling class whites have a deep loathing for the rest of white America.

    At the other end, the working classes have had plenty of reasons to revolt since the 1970’s, when the usual suspects began auctioning off the manufacturing base. In coal country, for example, where you will find the most rebellious whites in America, an all-out war on their way of life has not resulted in much resistance. The semi-urban white working class has continued to support a system that shows every sign of trying to snuff out the white working class. There’s no rebellion in that group.

    That leaves the white suburban middle-class, who are certainly the angriest cohort in the country, but they are the most docile too. Perhaps if they fear a real threat to their economic position, they will become less docile, but middle-class revolution remains an oxymoron at this stage. For now, they will remain committed to the system, taking out their anger on politicians at the ballot box. Even though voting has had no impact on the trajectory of American society, it seems to be enough for this class.

    Even if you can conjure a scenario in which a group revolts or the ruling class splits, resulting in a civil war of some type, it’s hard to imagine it being violent. For starters, rebelling against the local police department, much less the military is laughably implausible, given the disparity in firepower. Even small town cops these days have been militarized. They have assault units, armored vehicles, drones and electronic surveillance equipment. America is literally a police state now.

    Rebellion would have to be guerrilla war, turning the weight of the surveillance state against itself. Instead of blowing stuff up, the rebellion of the future will be placing racist material in strategic locations, forcing the police to spend hundreds of man hours looking for invisible Nazis. More sophisticated tactics will require infiltration of ruling class assets, so rebels can easily and surreptitiously throw sand in the gears of the custodial state. The war will be fought in cubicles, not the streets.

    Now, this may seem depressing at first blush, but civil wars and rebellion never encompass the whole of the society. The American Revolution directly involved about five percent of the population. The American Left radicalized the country with less than 20% support among whites. For those hoping to see the next American civil war, it will not take much of a change in the above dynamics to get the conditions for it. A serious economic catastrophe or a major foreign policy setback could be enough.

    There’s also the fact that the nature of rebellion changes with the times. The rebels of the agrarian age faced men with bayonets and muskets. Men with muskets and rifles hiding in the woods could do real damage to their rulers. In the industrial age, general strikes and urban riots were enough to counter state power. In the information age, the rebellion will be about sapping the strength of the rulers, with regards to their ability to control data. Unplugging a data center will be the new terrorism.

    When you start to puzzle through it, the probability of an old fashioned civil war is close to zero, while armed rebellion is in the single digits. Things will have to change a lot for the conditions to be right. On the other hand, a new type of rebellion, one suited for the age and the sorts of people unhappy with the system, is increasingly likely. Middle-class mom giving company passwords to rebel hackers is a likely scenario. The revolution of the future will be low-grade and mostly non-violent.
    If at first you don't secede, try, try again!

  2. #2
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    The next civil war in the US may very well be fought out using electrons. Deny the Leftists their electrons and they have literally nothing to fight with.

    RR
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  3. #3
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    We are one day closer

  4. #4
    When you all start talking about civil war, please tell me what generals are going to side with the rebels. Are you going to get another General Lee or are you on your own? Without effective leadership there will be no war.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by WTSR View Post
    When you all start talking about civil war, please tell me what generals are going to side with the rebels. Are you going to get another General Lee or are you on your own? Without effective leadership there will be no war.
    Then surrender your weapons and bow to your overlords.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by WTSR View Post
    When you all start talking about civil war, please tell me what generals are going to side with the rebels. Are you going to get another General Lee or are you on your own? Without effective leadership there will be no war.
    LEADERLESS RESISTANCE


    ISSUE 12, FEBRUARY 1992: FINAL EDITION
    LEADERLESS RESISTANCE



    The concept of Leaderless Resistance was proposed by Col. Ulius Louis Amoss, who was the founder of International Service of Information Incorporated, located in Baltimore, Maryland. Col. Amoss died more than fifteen years ago, but during his life was a tireless opponent of communism, as well as a skilled Intelligence Officer. Col. Amoss first wrote of Leaderless Resistance on April 17, 1962. His theories of organization were primarily directed against the threat of eventual Communist take-over in the United States. The present writer, with the benefit of having lived many years beyond Col. Amoss, has taken his theories and expounded upon them. Col. Amoss feared the Communists. This author fears the federal government. Communism now represents a threat to no one in the United States, while federal tyranny represents a threat to everyone . The writer has joyfully lived long enough to see the dying breaths of communism, but may, unhappily, remain long enough to see the last grasps of freedom in America.

    In the hope that, somehow, America can still produce the brave sons and daughters necessary to fight off ever increasing persecution and oppression, this essay is offered. Frankly, it is too close to call at this point. Those who love liberty, and believe in freedom enough to fight for it are rare today, but within the bosom of every once great nation, there remains secreted, the pearls of former greatness. They are there. I have looked into their sparking eyes; sharing a brief moment in time with them as I passed through this life. Relished their friendship, endured their pain, and they mine. We are a band of brothers, native to the soil gaining strength one from another as we have rushed head long into a battle that all the weaker, timid men, say we can not win. Perhaps...but then again, perhaps we can. It's not over till the last freedom fighter is buried or imprisoned, or the same happens to those who would destroy their freedom.

    Barring any cataclysmic events, the struggle will yet go on for years. The passage of time will make it clear to even the more slow among us that the government is the foremost threat to the life, and liberty of the folk. The government will no doubt make today's oppressiveness look like grade school work compared to what they have planned in the future. Meanwhile, there are those of us who continue to hope that somehow the few can do what the many have not. We are cognizant that before things get better they will certainly get worse as government shows a willingness to use ever more severe police state measures against dissidents. This changing situation makes it clear that those who oppose state repression must be prepared to alter, adapt, and modify their behavior, strategy, and tactics as circumstances warrant. Failure to consider new methods and implement them as necessary will make the government's efforts at suppression uncomplicated. It is the duty of every patriot to make the tyrant's life miserable. When one fails to do so he not only fails himself, but his people.

    With this in mind, current methods of resistance to tyranny employed by those who love our race, culture, and heritage must pass a litmus test of soundness. Methods must be objectively measured as to their effectiveness, as well as to whether they make the government's intention of repression more possible or more difficult. Those not working to aid our objectives must be discarded or the government benefits from our failure to do so.

    As honest men who have banded together into groups or associations of a political or religious nature are falsely labeled "domestic terrorists" or "cultists" and suppressed, it will become necessary to consider other methods of organization--or as the case may very well call for: non-organization. One should keep in mind that it is not in the government's interest to eliminate all groups. Some few must remain in order to perpetuate the smoke and mirrors vision for the masses that America is a "free democratic country" where dissent is allowed. Most organizations, however, that possess the potential for effective resistance will not be allowed to continue. Anyone who is so naive as to believe the most powerful government on earth will not crush any who pose a real threat to that power, should not be active, but rather, at home studying political history.

    The question as to who is to be left alone and who is not, will be answered by how groups and individuals deal with several factors such as: avoidance of conspiracy plots, rejection of feeble minded malcontents, insistence upon quality of the participants, avoidance of all contact with the front men for the federals--the news media--and, finally, camouflage (which can be defined as the ability to blend in the public's eye the more committed groups of resistance with mainstream "kosher" associations that are generally seen as harmless.) Primarily though, whether any organization is allowed to continue in the future will be a matter of how big a threat a group represents. Not a threat in terms of armed might or political ability, for there is none of either for the present, but rather, threat in terms of potentiality. It is potential the federals fear most. Whether that potential exists in an individual or group is incidental. The federals measure potential threat in terms of what might happen given a situation conducive to action on the part of a restive organization or individual. Accurate intelligence gathering allows them to assess the potential. Showing one's hand before the bets are made, is a sure way to loose.

    The movement for freedom is rapidly approaching the point where for many people, the option of belonging to a group will be nonexistent. For others, group membership will be a viable option for only the immediate future. Eventually, and perhaps much sooner than most believe possible, the price paid for membership will exceed any perceived benefit. But for now, some of the groups that do exist often serve a useful purpose either for the newcomer who can be indoctrinated into the ideology of the struggle, or for generating positive propaganda to reach potential freedom fighters. It is sure that, for the most part, this struggle is rapidly becoming a matter of individual action, each of its participants making a private decision in the quietness of his heart to resist: to resist by any means necessary. It is hard to know what others will do, for no man truly knows another man's heart. It is enough to know what one himself will do. A great teacher once said "know thyself." Few men really do, but let each of us, promise ourselves, not to go quietly to the fate our would-be masters have planned.

    The concept of Leaderless Resistance is nothing less than a fundamental departure in theories of organization. The orthodox scheme of organization is diagrammatically represented by the pyramid, with the mass at the bottom and the leader at the top. This fundamental of organization is to be seen not only in armies, which are of course, the best illustration of the pyramid structure, with the mass of soldiery, the privates, at the bottom responsible to corporals who are in turn responsible to sergeants, and so on up the entire chain of command to the generals at the top. But the same structure is seen in corporations, ladies' garden clubs and in our political system itself. This orthodox "pyramid" scheme of organization is to be seen basically in all existing political, social and religious structures in the world today from the Federal government to the Roman Catholic Church. The Constitution of the United States, in the wisdom of the Founders, tried to sublimate the essential dictatorial nature of pyramidal organization by dividing authority into three: executive, legislative and judicial. But the pyramid remains essentially untouched.

    This scheme of organization, the pyramid, is however, not only useless, but extremely dangerous for the participants when it is utilized in a resistance movement against state tyranny. Especially is this so in technologically advanced societies where electronic surveillance can often penetrate the structure revealing its chain of command. Experience has revealed over and over again that anti-state, political organizations utilizing this method of command and control are easy prey for government infiltration, entrapment, and destruction of the personnel involved. This has been seen repeatedly in the United States where pro-government infiltrators or agent provocateurs weasel their way into patriotic groups and destroy them from within.

    In the pyramid type of organization, an infiltrator can destroy anything which is beneath his level of infiltration and often those above him as well. If the traitor has infiltrated at the top, then the entire organization from the top down is compromised and may be traduced at will.

    An alternative to the pyramid type of organization is the cell system. In the past, many political groups (both right and left) have used the cell system to further their objectives. Two examples will suffice. During the American Revolution "committees of correspondence" were formed throughout the Thirteen colonies.

    Their purpose was to subvert the government and thereby aid the cause of independence. The "Sons of Liberty", who made a name for themselves dumping government taxed tea into the harbor at Boston, were the action arm of the committees of correspondence. Each committee was a secret cell that operated totally independently of the other cells. Information on the government was passed from committee to committee, from colony to colony, and then acted upon on a local basis. Yet even in these bygone days of poor communication, of weeks to months for a letter to be delivered, the committees without any central direction whatsoever, were remarkable similar in tactics employed to resist government tyranny. It was, as the first American patriots knew, totally unnecessary for anyone to give an order for anything. Information was made available to each committee, and each committee acted as it saw fit. A recent example of the cell system taken from the left wing of politics are the Communists. The Communist, in order to get around the obvious problems involved in pyramidal organization, developed to an art the cell system. They had numerous independent cells which operated completely isolated from one another and particularly with no knowledge of each other, but were orchestrated together by a central headquarters. For instance, during World War II, in Washington, it is known that there were at least six secret Communist cells operating at high levels in the United States government (plus all the open Communists who were protected and promoted by President Roosevelt), however, only one of the cells was rooted out and destroyed. How many more actually were operating no one can say for sure.

    The Communist cells which operated in the U.S until late 1991 under Soviet control could have at their command a leader, who held a social position which appeared to be very lowly. He could be, for example, a busboy in a restaurant, but in reality a colonel or a general in the Soviet Secret Service, the KGB. Under him could be a number of cells and a person active in one cell would almost never have knowledge of individuals who are active in another cell. The value of this is that while any one cell can be infiltrated, exposed or destroyed, such action will have no effect on the other cells; in fact, the members of the other cells will be supporting that cell which is under attack and ordinarily would lend very strong support to it in many ways. This is at least part of the reason, no doubt, that whenever in the past Communists were attacked in this country, support for them sprang up in many unexpected places.

    The efficient and effective operation of a cell system after the Communist model, is of course, dependent upon central direction, which means impressive organization, funding from the top, and outside support, all of which the Communists had. Obviously, American patriots have none of these things at the top or anywhere else, and so an effective cell organization based upon the Soviet system of operation is impossible.

    Two things become clear from the above discussion. First, that the pyramid type of organization can be penetrated quite easily and it thus is not a sound method of organization in situations where the government has the resources and desire to penetrate the structure; which is the situation in this country. Secondly, that the normal qualifications for the cell structure based upon the Red model does not exist in the U.S. for patriots. This understood, the question arises "What method is left for those resisting state tyranny?" The answer comes from Col. Amoss who proposed the "Phantom Cell" mode of organization. Which he described as Leaderless Resistance. A system of organization that is based upon the cell organization, but does not have any central control or direction, that is in fact almost identical to the methods used by the Committees of Correspondence during the American Revolution. Utilizing the Leaderless Resistance concept, all individuals and groups operate independently of each other, and never report to a central headquarters or single leader for direction or instruction, as would those who belong to a typical pyramid organization.

    At first glance, such a type of organization seems unrealistic, primarily because there appears to be no organization. The natural question thus arises as to how are the "Phantom cells" and individuals to cooperate with each other when there is no intercommunication or central direction? The answer to this question is that participants in a program of Leaderless Resistance through phantom cell or individual action must know exactly what they are doing, and how to do it. It becomes the responsibility of the individual to acquire the necessary skills and information as to what is to be done. This is by no means as impractical as it appears, because it is certainly true that in any movement, all persons involved have the same general outlook, are acquainted with the same philosophy, and generally react to given situations in similar ways. The pervious history of the committees of correspondence during the American Revolution show this to be true.

    Since the entire purpose of Leaderless Resistance is to defeat state tyranny (at least insofar as this essay is concerned), all members of phantom cells or individuals will tend to react to objective events in the same way through usual tactics of resistance. Organs of information distribution such as newspapers, leaflets, computers, etc., which are widely available to all, keep each person informed of events, allowing for a planned response that will take many variations. No one need issue an order to anyone. Those idealist truly committed to the cause of freedom will act when they feel the time is ripe, or will take their cue from others who precede them. While it is true that much could be said against this type of structure as a method of resistance, it must be kept in mind that Leaderless Resistance is a child of necessity. The alternatives to it have been show to be unworkable or impractical. Leaderless Resistance has worked before in the American Revolution, and if the truly committed put it to use for themselves, it will work now.

    It goes almost without saying that Leaderless Resistance leads to very small or even one man cells of resistance. Those who join organizations to play "let's pretend" or who are "groupies" will quickly be weeded out. While for those who are serious about their opposition to federal despotism, this is exactly what is desired.

    From the point of view of tyrants and would be potentates in the federal bureaucracy and police agencies, nothing is more desirable than that those who oppose them be UNIFIED in their command structure, and that every person who opposes them belong to a pyramid type group. Such groups and organizations are an easy kill. Especially in light of the fact that the Justice (sic) Department promised in 1987 that there would never be another group that opposed them that they did not have at least one informer in. These federal "friends of government" are intelligence agents. They gather information that can be used at the whim of a federal D.A. to prosecute. The line of battle has been drawn. Patriots are required therefore, to make a conscious decision to either aid the government in its illegal spying, by continuing with old methods of organization and resistance, or to make the enemie's job more difficult by implementing effective countermeasures.

    Now there will, no doubt, be mentally handicapped people out there who, while standing at a podium with an American flag draped in the background, and a lone eagle soaring in the sky above, will state emphatically in their best sounding red, white, and blue voice, "So what if the government is spying? We are not violating any laws." Such crippled thinking by any serious person is the best example that there is a need for special education classes. The person making such a statement is totally out of contact with political reality in this country, and unfit for leadership of any thing more than a dog sleigh in the Alaskan wilderness. The old "Born on the fourth of July" mentality that has influenced so much of the American patriot's thinking in the past will not save him from the government in the future. "Reeducation" for non-thinkers of this type will take place in the federal prison system where there are no flags or eagles, but abundance of men who were "not violating any law."

    Most groups who "unify" their disparate associates into a single structure have short political lives. Therefore, those movement leaders constantly calling for unity of organization rather than the desirable unity of purpose, usually fall into one of three categories.

    They may not be sound political tacticians, but rather, just committed men who feel unity would help their cause, while not realizing that the government would greatly benefit from such efforts. The Federal objective, to imprison or destroy all who oppose them, is made easier in pyramid organizations. Or perhaps, they do not fully understand the struggle they are involved in and that the government they oppose has declared a state of war against those fighting for faith, folk, freedom and constitutional liberty. Those in power will use any means to rid themselves of opposition. The third class calling for unity and let us hope this is the minority of the three, are men more desirous of the supposed power that a large organization would bestow, than of actually achieving their stated purpose.

    Conversely, the last thing Federal snoops would have, if they had any choice in the matter, is a thousand different small phantom cells opposing them. It is easy to see why. Such a situation is an intelligence nightmare for a government intent upon knowing everything they possibly can about those who oppose them. The Federals, able to amass overwhelming strength of numbers, manpower, resources, intelligence gathering, and capability at any given time, need only a focal point to direct their anger. A single penetration of a pyramid type of organization can lead to the destruction of the whole. Whereas, Leaderless Resistance presents no single opportunity for the Federals to destroy a significant portion of the Resistance.

    With the announcement by the Department of Justice (sic) that 300 FBI agents formerly assigned to watching Soviet spies in the US (domestic counter intelligence) are now to be used to "combat crime", the federal government is preparing the way for a major assault upon those persons opposed to their policies. Many anti-government groups dedicated to the preservation of the America of our forefathers can expect shortly to feel the brunt of a new federal assault upon liberty.

    It is clear, therefore, that it is time to rethink traditional strategy and tactics when it comes to opposing a modern police state. America is quickly moving into a long dark night of police state tyranny, where the rights now accepted by most as being inalienable will disappear. Let the coming night be filled with a thousand points of resistance. Like the fog which forms when conditions are right and disappears when they are not, so must the resistance to tyranny be.



    "If every person has the right to defend--even by force--his person, his liberty, and his property, then it follows that a group of men have the right to organize and support a common force to protect these rights constantly." ---The Law. Frederick Bastiat Paris, 1850.
    “Don’t pick a fight, but if you find yourself in one, I suggest you make damn sure you win.” - John Wayne

  7. #7
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    Never assume that blacks will not leave their own neighborhoods. I think that in recent history the spark hasn't been great enough for them to do so. But if they sense an opening and the spark is outside of their sphere and they have good directed leaders who are willing and able to take advantage of the situation then I would expect them to mount a roadtrip out to the suburbs. So do not let your guard down when the windup to the SHTF starts to occur

    tbd

  8. #8
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    Many on the far Right make the same assumption as the Left, with regards to the outcome, owing to the fact that most of the guns are owned by whites. Those noodle armed Antifa sissies and their mouthy women would not last long in a fair fight, much less an armed fight. That’s certainly true, but if they did have the cops fighting for them that would be different. Then there is the fact that the same people controlling Antifa also run the military, so the gun disparity would change quickly.

    Wrong on both accounts. We've talked about the 'thin blue line' here many times as well as how many military members could be brought to bare. They are both woefully inadequate for such a task. When TSHTF those cops have families as well and when the police start dropping like flies they are not going to be disposed to attempt to take away weapons from lawful Americans. Lot's of the cops are personal gun owners as well and will have no part of it. I simply remind everyone of Michael Dorner who was a police officer and a naval reservist that had some tactical training back in 2013. That one man by himself once he started to target the police tied up most of Southern California for two weeks. The cops were doubled up and trippled up in their vehicles and were so scared they were shooting at vehicles that only looked like his. One man with tactical training and a method to his madness did this. There are millions of us who are former military and or police and have tactical training.

    Secondarily the military would be totally unable to deal with something like this. We can't pacify Afghanistan in 20 years using heavy weapons. The U.S. is much bigger with a well armed population. The U.S. could barely handle the hurricane Katrina event and only did so by stripping assets from the rest of the nation. [and we were not at war with each other] If/when CW breaks loose the 'lawlessness' is going to be almost everywhere at the same time. And for every one man that the military can put on civil disturbance missions there has to be three more behind him in support roles and then you have the fact that resupply would be almost impossible as surface transportation breaks down with fuel not being delivered and abandoned vehicles littering the highway. And a lot of military would simply walk away and disappear into the countryside.

    In a CW scenario nobody would win but there would be a lot of survivors. Those that survive will be more likely to be conservative, well armed and living in less densely populated areas that still have some old fashioned American values that the Marxists spit at. In very short order the cities where most of them live would look like Calcutta.
    What is the lake of fire? What is it's purpose? Is the lake of fire eternal hell? Is there any hope of escape for those cast into this lake?
    http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html

  9. #9
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    With just in time delivery of food, fuel and electricity, we are a nation already held hostage by those who control the flow of food and power. Unless you are already food-sufficient, you will obey or go hungry...
    ” Watch ye therefore and pray always that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass and to stand before the Son of Man”
    Luke 21:36

    COLLAPSE NOW: avoid the rush

  10. #10
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    It looks like New Zealand is now putting the foot down and bullying people into really turning in their weapons. Now, at that point you only have two options, and one of them isn't "losing weapons in the lake," either. You either meekly turn them in, or you go down and start shooting. IF you turn them in, you can be guaranteed the government will murder you at some point down the road, and if you open fire, you can be sure the government will murder you on the spot. I do think there are more Americans, than any Commonwealth types, who are more likely to open fire. OF course, the police prefer to hunt the gun owners down one by one, and then overwhelm them.

    The link is here.

    https://therightscoop.com/horrible-l...urch-massacre/


    HORRIBLE: Law abiding New Zealanders turn in their GUNS six months after ChristChurch massacre
    The Right Scoop
    Sep. 18, 2019 11:45 am by The Right Scoop • 172 Comments

    Many of these are hunting rifles, holding only a few rounds. Yet they are still banned!

    People in New Zealand have until December to turn in their now-illegal guns. Otherwise they will be subject to imprisonment if they are caught with any of these prohibited weapons.

    Democrats must be so jealous of New Zealand, because this is exactly what they want to happen here. We’ve heard Beto say as much, even though he’s only targeting AR-15s and AK-47s with his fascist rhetoric. It starts with ARs and ends like it does in New Zealand with nearly all semi-automatic rifles – at least for law-abiding citizens. Those are the only ones turning in their guns. All the criminals will still enjoy their unlawful weapons and will continue to commit crimes with them.

    Pathetic!
    Doomer Doug, a.k.a. Doug McIntosh now has a blog at www.doomerdoug.wordpress.com
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  11. #11
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    How many are turning in their weapons in New Zealand? Perhaps not as many as the media and special interests might have us think.


    Noncompliance Kneecaps New Zealand's Gun Control Scheme


    Once again, responding to a horrendous crime by inflicting knee-jerk, authoritarian restrictions on innocent people proves to be an ineffective means of convincing people to obey. Specifically, New Zealand's government—which also stepped up censorship and domestic surveillance after bloody attacks on two Christchurch mosques earlier this year—is running into stiff resistance to new gun rules from firearms owners who are slow to surrender now-prohibited weapons and will probably never turn them in.

    Officials should have seen it coming.

    "Police are anticipating a number of people with banned firearms in their possession won't surrender them," Stuff reported at the end of May, based on internal government documents.

    As of last week, only around 700 weapons had been turned over. There are an estimated 1.5 million guns—with an unknown number subject to the new prohibition on semiautomatic firearms—in the country overall.

    Traditionally relaxed in its approach to firearms regulation, and enjoying a low crime rate, New Zealand has no firearms registration rule. That means authorities have no easy way of knowing what guns are in circulation or who owns them.

    "These weapons are unlikely to be confiscated by police because they don't know of their existence," Philippa Yasbek of Gun Control NZ admitted. "These will become black-market weapons if their owners choose not to comply with the law and become criminals instead."

    Yasbek's organization advocates registering all guns in private hands. But that won't help with gathering guns already in the possession of owners appalled by the government's attack on the rights of innocent people—government attacks, it's worth noting, that come in response to the crimes of one man who explicitly anticipated just such a response.

    "I chose firearms for the affect it would have on social discourse," the killer wrote in a document he released to explain his crimes. "The gun owners of New Zealand are a beaten, miserable bunch of baby boomers, who have long since given up the fight. When was the last time they won increased rights? Their loss was inevitable. I just accelerated things a bit."

    Politicians fulfilled the murderer's predictions with panic-driven legislation.

    That gun owners would, in large numbers, defy restrictions should have been anticipated by anybody who knows the history of government attempts to disarm their subjects—or who just glanced across the Tasman Sea to Australia.

    "In Australia it is estimated that only about 20% of all banned self-loading rifles have been given up to the authorities," wrote Franz Csaszar, professor of criminology at the University of Vienna, after Australia's 1996 compensated confiscation of firearms following a mass murder in Port Arthur, Tasmania. Csaszar put the number of illegally retained arms in Australia at between two and five million.

    "Many members of the community still possess grey-market firearms because they did not surrender these during the 1996–97 gun buyback," the Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission conceded in a 2016 report. "The Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission continues to conservatively estimate that there are more than 260,000 firearms in the illicit firearms market."

    Just as Australian police named "outlaw motorcycle gangs, Middle Eastern organised crime groups, and other groups engaged in trafficking illicit commodities such as drugs" as beneficiaries of the prohibition-fueled black market in firearms, underground organizations are similarly poised to prosper in New Zealand. Gangs in the island nation announced very loudly after the new legislation was introduced that they wouldn't be surrendering their own weapons.

    "Will gangs get rid of their weapons? No," one prominent gang leader told Stuff. "Because of who we are, we can't guarantee our own safety."

    So Kiwis who actually do comply with the confiscation scheme will put themselves at a disadvantage relative to violent gangs that don't intend to obey.

    They would also be putting themselves at a disadvantage relative to the government, which is retaining its own weapons despite a distinct lack of competence (in April, a police station provided one-stop, discount gun shopping for an enterprising burglar) and intends to further squeeze the country's liberty. Even before the latest law has been fully implemented, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern is planning more gun legislation, including registration. Additionally, the Security Intelligence Service stepped up domestic spying after the mosque attacks and saw a big boost in its funding courtesy of the latest budget.

    Arguably, defiant gun owners are just being realistic in seeing little to gain by obeying restrictive laws that have their greatest impact on those who pose no threat to their neighbors.

    Fulfilling internal police expectations, some Kiwis openly boast of defying the law—especially with compensation rates set well below the value of the firearms that are supposed to be surrendered. The low turn-in numbers suggest they're matching words with action.

    And who can claim to be surprised? By refusing to comply with restrictions, New Zealand gun owners are just following in the footsteps of their counterparts in Australia, Europe, and the United States. In each of these places, and many more besides, gun owners ignored laws, kept their property out of sight, and frustrated efforts to disarm them.

    If New Zealand's political class had looked to the history of gun control efforts they would have seen that they were walking a well-trodden path that leads to a dead end. But then again, if they had enough foresight to know that ill-considered restrictions on personal liberty are usually counterproductive and often breed rebellion, they probably wouldn't have gone into government.

    https://reason.com/2019/07/08/noncom...ontrol-scheme/
    What is the lake of fire? What is it's purpose? Is the lake of fire eternal hell? Is there any hope of escape for those cast into this lake?
    http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html

  12. #12
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    So if there is a Civil War, which side is the government on?

    Or is it the general population against our government?

    So if there is a Civil War our government has to be on one side or the other I would assume, right? I see no way that our government would just sit back and say - "Okay you guys fight it out and the winner will lead this country."

    Our government has total control over all communications and can also monitor all communications. So which ever side is against the government could only use face-to-face communications with other members of that rebellion force, correct? If so it sure would be difficult to mount any kind nation-wide fighting force.

  13. #13
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    There are a number of folks who either graduated from Uncle Sam's graduate-level courses or helped teach said courses on "How to make a rebellion actually WORK" down at JFKSWCS (JFK Special Warfare Center School -- AKA "The Schoolhouse" for US Army Special Forces)


    Might want to talk to some of them guys who EARNED that funny green hat, and LISTEN to them on the "Leaderless Resistance" subject.


    Spoiler Alert: "Leaderless Resistance " that SUCCEEDS ain't.
    RULE 1:
    THEY want you DEAD.

    PERSEC OPSEC COMMSEC Live or Die by your Tradecraft.


    Should I vanish, only one person here will know.

    The BEST in Life:
    To CRUSH your enemies.
    To see them driven before you
    To listen to the lamentations of their women

  14. #14
    doesn't make any difference how some actual battling would start >>> within a few days the battling it would be nothing but BLMers coldcocking their fellow white ANTIFA and Woman Rights from behind - seen it at Charlottesville - seen it at Ferguson - seen it at Baltimore ...
    Illini Warrior

  15. #15
    Which side of a civil war the military brass support will define the future of the country. If they go against the people and the 2nd amendment, it will be the duty of every veteran to keep their oath to the country and keep their freedom by using their illegal rifles to drill a hole in the head of every traitor opportunity permits.

  16. #16
    We are assuming it's Patriots against government. What if it's ms-13, la raza, and Muslims teaming up together and being financed and trained by China to carry out a ground war in America?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Illini Warrior View Post
    doesn't make any difference how some actual battling would start >>> within a few days the battling it would be nothing but BLMers coldcocking their fellow white ANTIFA and Woman Rights from behind - seen it at Charlottesville - seen it at Ferguson - seen it at Baltimore ...
    This is the winner winner chicken dinner, really doesn't matter what match strikes the fuse, the end all be all will be a white v black civil war with most latinos sitting out, lucky for whites it won't last long and thankfully we can send the low IQ kneegrows either back to the motherland or 6 feet under.

  18. #18
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    If it goes hot and spreads it will be 3 or more groups fighting against each other to one degree or another and that does not include military or LE.
    Some of the groups will be defined on racial or ethnic grounds and some will be defined by religious, social and constitutional alignment.
    It would not be difficult to disrupt commerce and the supply of basic necessities--food-water-electricity-sewer-fuel-meds-etc. to major metropolitan areas
    It could potentially leave the nation in a heap of starving people and rotting corpses with much of the essential infrastructure in shambles and disease rampant
    The end of such a multifaceted conflict will not come quickly and even after "it is over" there will remain pockets of resistance for many months, perhaps years, to come and who "wins" could be determined by any foreign intervention
    We would be living and dying in historic times.
    If you live through it you will never be the person that you were before

  19. #19
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    Civil War against the largest most expensive military machine in history. Sure.....I wonder how that will turn out.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivantherussian03 View Post
    Civil War against the largest most expensive military machine in history. Sure.....I wonder how that will turn out.
    That assumes the military even gets involved in any meaningful manner beyond SIGINT/ELINT.

    "The Left" in its "paramilitary" side of the house is slipping into a comb or division of the Spartacist/Red Brigades/Weather Underground and hyper-street theater/vandalism switching up to SA "Brownshirts". The "political" side of the house, both within the establishment system and those claiming to be on the outside are regularly using the militants and the MSM as tools to maintain their positions and project against opponents in ways that if done themselves would have them expelled from within the establishment.

    "The Right" has nowhere near such an organization, they instead are in the main not truly bothering except for the political portion of the oligarchy and they are so risk averse they might as well be literal strawmen, place holding for the most part. If anything, their "paramilitaries" are either much more focused upon political action or are dormant after being pummeled by "the system" under Obama.. If "they" were to really "need" to apply true force the establishment/oligarchy (whether "right or left, or that blurred ground of them vs the rest of the population) has either the full width and breath of the nation's LE agencies or PMCs.
    Last edited by Housecarl; 09-20-2019 at 05:26 AM.

  21. #21
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    Quote by ivantherussian03
    “Civil War against the largest most expensive military machine in history. Sure.....I wonder how that will turn out.”

    Ask the Afghanistanis.
    “I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.” Barry Goldwater.

  22. #22
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    Civil War would be a gift to the deep state at this point. Blame DJT. An excuse for further domestic surveillance and strangulation of freedoms. An excuse for any financial calamity. A way to separate the baby boomers from their vast wealth of money and property.

    Quite honestly, if I were runnin' the deep state, way more fomenting would have been done...
    "You are allowed to be disappointed but not surprised"

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luddite View Post
    Civil War would be a gift to the deep state at this point. Blame DJT. An excuse for further domestic surveillance and strangulation of freedoms. An excuse for any financial calamity. A way to separate the baby boomers from their vast wealth of money and property.

    Quite honestly, if I were runnin' the deep state, way more fomenting would have been done...
    Of course that same "establishment" has a level of exposure from this attempted coup d'etat that anywhere else would have the lot of them in the bottom of a lye lined trench.

  24. #24
    Muse...there is a army of young kids, and their teachers are even encouraging it by letting them skip classes to protest accross the west. Including over a million they say in Australia.

    The liberal government and hollyweird have been encouraging a civil war of sorts against Capitalism and Industry for over 40 years now.

    It's disgusting.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Housecarl View Post
    Of course that same "establishment" has a level of exposure from this attempted coup d'etat that anywhere else would have the lot of them in the bottom of a lye lined trench.
    Agreed. Fog of war has a nagging spot in the crowded "room of doom" in my head. The smelly, sticky parts of war are fought by post adolescents with 6 curly cheek whiskers. How often do the masterminds feel repercussions?
    Current events have led my mind back to pictures of Saddam H and the pictures of him shaking hands with Rummy. Also, thoughts of khadafy's circuitous path to his roadside mush brained demise. Won't even try to mention some of the central American fiascos.

    Common denominator? Best left unsaid.
    "You are allowed to be disappointed but not surprised"

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by West View Post
    Muse...there is a army of young kids, and their teachers are even encouraging it by letting them skip classes to protest accross the west. Including over a million they say in Australia.

    The liberal government and hollyweird have been encouraging a civil war of sorts against Capitalism and Industry for over 40 years now.

    It's disgusting.
    I heard one interviewed on public radio this morning. 17 years old. Said climate change horror was too dramatic to give him time to go on to college. He must force change NOW.
    This latest push is credited to the Jesus girl that just sailed in from Europe because she won't fly. Can't remember her name now.

    ETA Greta Thunberg
    http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showt...Greta-Thunberg
    Last edited by Luddite; 09-20-2019 at 06:37 AM.
    "You are allowed to be disappointed but not surprised"

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Luddite View Post
    I heard one interviewed on public radio this morning. 17 years old. Said climate change horror was too dramatic to give him time to go on to college. He must force change NOW.
    This latest push is credited to the Jesus girl that just sailed in from Europe because she won't fly. Can't remember her name now.
    This is huge. For over 40 years now this eco- warrior mindset has been taught and pushed by our own socialist government 24- 7.

    And its really starting to pay off now, they have brain washed millions and now all they gotta do is officially arm them.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivantherussian03 View Post
    Civil War against the largest most expensive military machine in history. Sure.....I wonder how that will turn out.
    Asymmetrical war? Again, as stated above, ask Viet Nam, Afghanistan, etc.

    Beside, what’re they gonna do, nuke every red city or town?

    It’s like that moronic dem politician said, “We have nuclear weapons!” So? You have the most expensive military machine in history, how do you bring it to bear against insurgents?

    Like using a sledge hammer to kill ants...ridiculous.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by West View Post
    This is huge. For over 40 years now this eco- warrior mindset has been taught and pushed by our own socialist government 24- 7.

    And its really starting to pay off now, they have brain washed millions and now all they gotta do is officially arm them.
    As soon as a group of these wussies sees one of their own get hit with a 7.62 it won't be long till you see their guns on the ground and trails of shit in the direction they ran.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Adams View Post
    Quote by ivantherussian03
    “Civil War against the largest most expensive military machine in history. Sure.....I wonder how that will turn out.”

    Ask the Afghanistanis.
    Exactly !!! Very noteworthy !!
    "No one ever rescues an old dog. They lay in a cage until they die. PLEASE save one. None of us wants to die cold and alone... --Dennis Olson "

    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti-Liberal View Post
    As soon as a group of these wussies sees one of their own get hit with a 7.62 it won't be long till you see their guns on the ground and trails of shit in the direction they ran.

    Same reaction if they just get a small splinter in their pinky ! LOL
    "No one ever rescues an old dog. They lay in a cage until they die. PLEASE save one. None of us wants to die cold and alone... --Dennis Olson "

    Si vis pacem, para bellum

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