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INSANITY they have created “artificial” embryos for medical testing purposes
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  1. #1
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    they have created “artificial” embryos for medical testing purposes

    Just heard in past hour on NPR news (I like to monitor behind enemy lines) that researchers have created what they call “embryettes” by manipulating the genetics of human stem cells, stimulating the: to form embryos. I believe we used to call that “cloning” of humans. They said they would be useful for testing drugs to make meds safer for pregnant women. They said they would not let them develop too far into human embryo development. Yeah, that makes me feel better about it.

    No link, as I just heard it on FM public radio frequency. But will search for more.

  2. #2
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  3. #3
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    This is up there with the abortion fetish in the other thread! Having read that first is the only reason I did not have a stronger reaction to it. There is a line where you start to play GOD and humankind is stepping on it and perhaps over it.

    Shadow
    "18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness… 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened… 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts…" Romans 1:18-32

  4. #4
    Perhaps the abortion fetish article was purposefully floated in order to reduce the abject horror we feel when hearing this news?
    Thoughts are things. Thus I'm careful of the thoughts I think, & the company I keep.
    I myself am entirely made of flaws, stiched together with good intentions.
    MOON™~> all in the ignorant opinion of an uneducated slip of a woman who keeps forgetting to mind her manners, know her place and bow down to her betters

  5. #5
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    Do you think clones will have a soul?

    Could they actually “create” a “viable” clone?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Warm Wisconsin View Post
    Do you think clones will have a soul?
    As much as any embryo.
    Better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.

  7. #7
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    The term in
    Embryoid body - Wikipedia

    https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Embryoid_body
    Embryoid bodies (EBs) are three-dimensional aggregates of pluripotent stem cells. The pluripotent cell types that comprise embryoid bodies include embryonic stem cells (ESCs) derived from the blastocyst stage of embryos from mouse (mESC), primate, and human (hESC) sources.
    In the case of the OP, the cells did not come from a blastocyst but entirely for stem cells from a different area of the body.
    Right now they are just undifferentiated clumps of cells. It remains to be seen if they can be made to begin to differentiate and begin organ formation.



    Seriously, here is the article with some pics
    Scientists have been able to create embryoids for some time. This new method allows them to mass produce them.


    https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...-human-embryos

    Scientists Create A Device That Can Mass-Produce Human Embryoids





    4:15
    <li class="share-tools__service share-tools__service--email">

    September 11, 20191:01 PM ET
    Heard on All Things Considered


    Rob Stein
    Twitter Facebook







    These human embryo-like structures (top) were synthesized from human stem cells; they've been stained to illustrate different cell types. Images (bottom) of the "embryoids" in the new device that was invented to make them.


    Yi Zheng/University of Michigan, Ann Arbor

    Scientists have invented a device that can quickly produce large numbers of living entities that resemble very primitive human embryos.
    Researchers welcomed the development, described Wednesday in the journal Nature, as an important advance for studying the earliest days of human embryonic development. But it also raises questions about where to draw the line in manufacturing "synthetic" human life.
    Other scientists have previously created synthetic embryos, which are also known as embryoids. These entities are made by coaxing human stem cells to form structures found in very early human embryos. The research has raised questions about how similar to complete embryos they could and should be allowed to become.
    Shots - Health News

    Scientists Make Model Embryos From Stem Cells To Study Key Steps In Human Development




    Shots - Health News

    Embryo Experiments Reveal Earliest Human Development, But Stir Ethical Debate




    The new work takes such research further by creating a method that can rapidly generate relatively large numbers of embryoids.
    "This new system allows us to achieve a superior efficiency to generate these human embryo-like structures," says Jianping Fu, an associate professor of biomedical engineering at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, who led the research.
    Fu calls the step "an exciting new milestone for this emerging field" that should significantly improve the ability of scientists to study early human development.
    "Such human embryo-like structures have a lot of potential to open what we call the so-called black box of human development," Fu says.

    He's referring to the first few weeks after a sperm fertilizes an egg, when the embryo is inside a woman's body and hard to study. A long-standing guideline bars scientists from conducting research on embryos in their labs beyond 14 days of development for ethical reasons.
    Fu says the ability to produce large numbers of embryoids, which are not subject to the 14-day guideline, will hopefully provide scientists with new insights into important health issues, including how to prevent birth defects and miscarriages. In addition, researchers could use the embryoids to screen drugs, to help determine whether the medications are safe for pregnant women to take.
    "Such research can lead to a lot of good," Fu says.
    Other scientists agree.
    "It's a major advance in the knowledge of early human development," says Ali Brivanlou, an embryologist at the Rockefeller University in New York. "We're opening up windows to aspects of development that we have never seen before. This knowledge is really the Holy Grail of human embryology."
    Other scientists and bioethicists agree. But they also caution that Fu's research raises sensitive issues.
    I want to make 100% clear that we have no intention of trying to generate a synthetic structure [that] looks like a complete human embryo. We have zero intention to do that.

    Jianping Fu, biomedical engineer, University of Michigan in Ann Arbor

    "This team needs to be very careful not to model all aspects of the developing human embryo, so that they can avoid the concern that this embryo model could one day become a baby if you put it in the womb," says Insoo Hyun, a bioethicist at Case Western Reserve University and Harvard Medical School.
    Because of such concerns, Fu says he purposefully made embryoids that are not complete models of full human embryos. They only "resemble a portion of the human embryo — the core of the early human embryo," Fu says. They are missing key structures, such as the early stages of the placenta and "yolk sac," which provide nourishment to embryos.
    "I understand that there may be people sensitive when you see that you can massively produce organized embryonic structures. People will be concerned. I understand that. I guess we are pushing the boundary," Fu says.


    The new device from the University of Michigan team enables scientists to rapidly produce large numbers of "embryo-like" structures. Human stem cells are first placed into the device; then chemicals are added to adjoining wells that stimulate the cells to grow key structures of human embryos.


    Yi Zheng/University of Michigan, Ann Arbor

    "But I want to make 100% clear that we have no intention of trying to generate a synthetic structure [that] looks like a complete human embryo," Fu says. "We have zero intention to do that."
    Others praised Fu's approach, saying going further would be highly problematic.
    "That would be sort of a very early sort of Frankenstein model, right? Taking different parts and stitching them together in order to try to create an organism," says Daniel Sulmasy, a bioethicist at Georgetown University.
    "If somebody tried to do it and it were even at the earliest stages of embryonic development, and they tried to then let it develop further, that would be a problem," Sulmasy says.
    The device Fu created is a thin silicone square. The plate contains four wells around a narrow channel. The scientists place stem cells — either human embryonic stem cells or induced pluripotent stem cells, which can be made from adult cells — into the device. Next, the researchers add to adjoining wells chemicals that stimulate the cells to grow key structures of human embryos.
    Each device can produce about a dozen embryoids in just a few days, Fu says, and that enables the scientists to produce hundreds of the structures by using many of the devices simultaneously.
    Last edited by TerryK; 09-11-2019 at 08:21 PM.
    “I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.”
    D. H. Lawrence

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by TerryK View Post
    "But I want to make 100% clear that we have no intention of trying to generate a synthetic structure [that] looks like a complete human embryo," Fu says. "We have zero intention to do that."
    Translation: You're not ready for the truth yet.
    Better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.

  9. #9
    Translation:. No need to try, we've already done so.

    Yup. feeling a wee bit cynical
    Thoughts are things. Thus I'm careful of the thoughts I think, & the company I keep.
    I myself am entirely made of flaws, stiched together with good intentions.
    MOON™~> all in the ignorant opinion of an uneducated slip of a woman who keeps forgetting to mind her manners, know her place and bow down to her betters

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warm Wisconsin View Post
    Do you think clones will have a soul?
    Now that’s the first question that crossed my mind! My thought is no. If ever gestated to birth, it might have a mind and be a functional human being (or not), but IMO it would have no soul. God implants the soul when sperm and egg meet, not when Petri dish chemicals are stirred around.

    Quote Originally Posted by bw View Post
    As much as any embryo.
    As an atheist, you need to not comment on issues like this. You have NO RIGHT to do so.

  11. #11
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    For those who missed it.
    Scientists have been able to create these embyoids for a while.
    They were just made one at a time.
    This new process allows them to be mass produced.
    So this is not a new thing.

    And as far as not knowing the whole story,,, In today's world, if something can be done, it will be done by someone, somewhere, eventually. Witness China and the recent human/monkey chimera.
    Stem cell research promises to eventually make it possible for a person to grow new replacement organs. People already can get expensive clones of their pets. Eventually it will be possible to clone a complete body.
    Brave New World is just about here, for better or worse.
    “I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.”
    D. H. Lawrence

  12. #12
    WE NOW HAVE ARTIFICIAL EMBRYOS SO LIFELIKE, THEY INITIATE PREGNANCY IN MICE
    THEY COULD HELP US TREAT EVERYTHING FROM INFERTILITY TO HEART DISEASE.
    BY KRISTIN HOUSER / MAY 03 2018

    For a fetus to develop into a healthy baby, those early stages of pregnancy are critical. If things go wrong, the pregnancy might not come to term, or the baby might develop health problems later in life.

    Here’s the thing, though: right now, doctors have no idea how to intervene if problems like that come up. They can’t see what’s happening with an embryo just after fertilization, let alone develop treatments to address any problems.

    But that could soon change, thanks to a new model of an early-stage artificial embryo. Researchers from Maastricht University and the Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences (KNAW) created the model, which they detail their study in a paper published Wednesday in Nature.

    artificial embryo
    An illustration of a blastoid. The green cells are the trophoblast stem cells. The red cells are the embryonic stem cells. Image Credit: Nicolas Rivron
    To understand why that’s important, let’s first go over a little background. In mammals, a blastocyst is a hollow sphere made of fewer than 100 cells that forms within a days after an egg is fertilized. Once implanted in a uterus, the cells within the blastocyst (embryonic cells) become the embryo and the cells forming the sphere (trophoblast cells) become the placenta.

    Nicolas Rivron, lead researcher on the Dutch study, told Research Gate that researchers already knew how to create the inner and outer parts of blastocysts using stem cells, but they hadn’t been able to combine the two. Another lab had successfully created models from later in an embryo’s development (post-implantation models called “gastruloids”), but his team is the first to produce a pre-implantation artificial embryo with trophoblasts — those cells that become the placenta. They call their model a “blastoid.”

    To create these blastoids, Rivron’s team first grew embryonic and trophoblast stem cells separately. Then they introduced the two types of cells within a mixture of molecules that prompted them to communicate and self-organize.

    When it was transferred to a mouse’s uterus, the artificial embryo implanted just like a natural one would during pregnancy. The cells divided and began fusing with the mother’s blood vessels.



    In humans, a blastocyst forms just five days after fertilization. The cell development that takes place during the blastocyst stage can influence the success of a pregnancy and the resulting baby’s health post-birth.

    Because researchers could create blastoids from stem cells en masse, they could have unprecedented access to this crucial stage of development. And that could make a huge difference for would-be moms worldwide.

    “For the first time, we can study these phenomena in great detail and run drug screens to find medicines that could prevent infertility, find better contraceptives, or limit the appearance of epigenetic marks that appear in the blastocyst and lead to diseases during adult life,” Rivron told Research Gate.

    Of course, mice and humans are very different. Would a human uterus respond in the same way to these blastoids? We don’t know yet. But the discoveries it yields could help everyone — mother, fetus, and the baby it becomes — be healthier.

    https://futurism.com/neoscope/artifi...bryo-blastoids

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Olson
    Now that’s the first question that crossed my mind! My thought is no. If ever gestated to birth, it might have a mind and be a functional human being (or not), but IMO it would have no soul. God implants the soul when sperm and egg meet, not when Petri dish chemicals are stirred around.
    I agree. without a soul, what kind of monster would we have walking among us? Seems to me, it would be a shell of a person open to demon possession. Without a soul, there can be no redemption.
    Sherree

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBreeze View Post
    I agree. without a soul, what kind of monster would we have walking among us? Seems to me, it would be a shell of a person open to demon possession. Without a soul, there can be no redemption.
    JBT army for gun confiscation?? Nah. My tinfoil must be too tight again.
    "You are allowed to be disappointed but not surprised"

  15. #15
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    Well, if we killed them, we wouldn't be committing murder...

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Olson View Post
    Now that’s the first question that crossed my mind! My thought is no. If ever gestated to birth, it might have a mind and be a functional human being (or not), but IMO it would have no soul. God implants the soul when sperm and egg meet, not when Petri dish chemicals are stirred around.



    As an atheist, you need to not comment on issues like this. You have NO RIGHT to do so.
    Then in your reasoning, identical twins have no souls. Or at least one of them.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Olson View Post
    Well, if we killed them, we wouldn't be committing murder...
    Without a soul, would they even be human in God's eyes? I don't think so. Killing them wouldn't be murder, IMHO. That's if ya'll are being serious....
    Sherree

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Olson View Post
    Well, if we killed them, we wouldn't be committing murder...
    Howdy, Folks!

    http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php?560946

    http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php?560290

    Hmm...if we ate them, would it be cannibalism?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLb-wMS02XM

    Peace and Love,

    Donald Shimoda

  19. #19
    Howdy, Folks!

    Check out the Seoul, 2144 segments of "Cloud Atlas" for a possibility on where this could go...

    Peace and Love,

    Donald Shimoda

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBreeze View Post
    Without a soul, would they even be human in God's eyes? I don't think so. Killing them wouldn't be murder, IMHO. That's if ya'll are being serious....
    I am.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by naturallysweet View Post
    Then in your reasoning, identical twins have no souls. Or at least one of them.
    Good point. Not to even mention triplets.
    People assumed "knowledge" about religion, far outpaces their demonstrated knowledge of biology.
    “I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.”
    D. H. Lawrence

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by naturallysweet View Post
    Then in your reasoning, identical twins have no souls. Or at least one of them.
    Bullshit. You're nuts.

  23. #23
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    God imparts the soul when the spark of life through egg meet sperm happens. If those cells divide into two or more lives, it was still God who imparted that life. They will all have souls.
    Sherree

  24. #24
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    SB, you can't use reason with crazy people.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Olson View Post
    SB, you can't use reason with crazy people.
    No comment!
    Sherree

  26. #26
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    Has no one raised the question of whether their unique DNA and Chromosomes identify them?
    From that, can it be ascertained if they are male or female, race, and other human identity markers?
    Jesus didn't MERELY only physically "die on the cross". He so loved us that
    It was God, suffering, bearing the sin, shame, guilt and punishment
    for every single person who had, or would ever live.
    So Justice could be preserved, Enabling Grace and Mercy to all who believe.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by ainitfunny View Post
    Has no one raised the question of whether their unique DNA and Chromosomes identify them? From that, can it be ascertained if they are male or female, race, and other human identity markers?
    The OP is describing clones, and a clone has the same DNA as the source of the cells it's made from.
    Better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.

  28. #28
    Yeah, I'd be really hesitant to decide what does and does not have the potential to have a "soul" or consciousness; if the beings created really are "clones" then they are weird for of identical twin or modified identical twin if something like CRISPR is used to modify the genes in some way.

    There are already plenty of cloned cows, racehorses, mice and possibly even people (though none officially exist yet) and the was an egg and sperm involved in the creation of the original, but the "copies" may come from cells in other places on the body that are "encouraged" to form a completely new animal.

    Stem cells are easier for this, but they don't even need fetal ones anymore to make this trick work.

    Personally if find this technique disturbing because there IS the potential for consciousness either a self-aware being at last on some level and/or the even darker possibility of some type of "outside" consciousness using such a creation.

    But if they are ultimately derived from people, and they are allowed to become full clones they're having a soul or the lack of one would be something I would call "beyond my pay grade" to be certain of.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

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