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BRKG BREXIT -update - Boris says he will ask for an election tomorrow Labor response is lukewarm
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  1. #121
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    Got to admit this is the most entertaining TV I've seen out of Britain in a longtime, much better than that Love Island, I'm A Celeb, Dancing with the Hasbeens crap

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by northern watch View Post
    zerohedge
    ‏ @zerohedge
    38s38 seconds ago

    *U.K. PARLIAMENT REJECTS JOHNSON CALL FOR EARLY ELECTION

    Now what
    There are a number of options but at this point, I'm brain dead, an election is almost certainly going to happen; the conflict is when it takes place and how it is instigated.

    This is all in uncharted waters...

    Basically, as one commentator just said, "you have a government that has a parliament that will not support its agenda" that doesn't work in a parliamentary system.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Marthanoir View Post
    Got to admit this is the most entertaining TV I've seen out of Britain in a longtime, much better than that Love Island, I'm A Celeb, Dancing with the Hasbeens crap
    I have to agree, but I think I'm going to bed soon...
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melodi View Post
    I have to agree, but I think I'm going to bed soon...
    Don't worry it'll still be there in the morning waiting for you, have a good sleep.

  5. #125
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49587610


    Brexit: Ireland will 'try' to impose checks away from border in no-deal


    Ireland will try to ensure checks in a no-deal Brexit will be done away from the border, Tánaiste Simon Coveney has said.

    He added Ireland would have to work to protect its place within the EU single market.

    Doing this without the backstop will lead to "unpalatable decisions", the Irish deputy prime minister said.

    Mr Coveney was speaking at an event in Dublin geared at preparing businesses for a no-deal Brexit.

    What is the Irish border backstop?
    Why is the Irish border blocking Brexit?
    How could backstop alternatives work?
    "These are difficult choices," Mr Coveney said.

    We do recognise the reality that Ireland will have a responsibility to protect its own place in the EU single market and that will involve some checks.

    "But I can assure you that we will try to do that in a way that limits the risk, and we will try and do it, obviously, away from the border."

    Ireland's latest contingency plan, published in July, said no deal would mean cross-border trade could not be as frictionless as it is now.

    But it does not elaborate on where and how such checks would take place.

    The Revenue Commissioners, Ireland's tax authority, has suggested that while all customs declarations could be filed electronically, up to 8% of consignments would still need to be physically checked for customs purposes.

    It says it is exploring ways of doing this at traders' premises or at designated warehouses.

    The Irish government has said it is giving its no-deal Brexit contingency plans "top priority".

    The cabinet met on Tuesday night to discuss the latest developments in Westminster, and said it noted that a no-deal Brexit is "increasingly likely".

    The legal default position is that the UK is due to leave the EU on 31 October, unless an extension is granted.

    The Irish government said it has issued an additional "call to action" to ensure that businesses are ready for the new regulatory requirements in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

    Mr Coveney said the Irish government would not allow the country to be "dragged out of the EU single market by default as a result of Brexit".

    "If we're not careful, we won't take the necessary action to protect the integrity of the single market, and therefore, our goods will be checked on the way into France, Germany or Belgium," he said.

    That would be hugely damaging to our business model and we cannot, and will not, allow that to happen.

    "That is why we will face difficult choices in the context of how we introduce a checking system, somewhere, away from the border, for obvious reasons, that can protect the integrity of the single market and reassure other EU countries that share the single market with us that we don't have an open back door into the single market through Northern Ireland, if it's unguarded."

  6. #126
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    SonOfPelosi!!!!!


    The Associated Press

    @AP
    BREAKING: UK House of Commons passes bill to block no-deal Brexit, sending it to upper chamber of Parliament. Follow @AP's developing Brexit coverage. http://apne.ws/7s3srfZ
    My Message to the Fake Stream Media......
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhSy-6VqIww

  7. #127
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    Brexit: Conservative peers launch last-ditch effort to block no-deal bill

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9091391.html



    Pro-Brexit Conservative peers are staging a last-ditch effort to stop the bill to block no-deal becoming law.

    Tories have tabled more than 100 amendments in the House of Lords designed to eat up the time available to get Hilary Benn’s bill onto the statute book before parliament is suspended next week.

    One Upper House insider described the Tory holdouts - who include former party leader Michael Howard and former cabinet ministers Peter Lilley and Michael Forsyth - as being “like the Japanese soldiers from the Second World War who stayed in the jungle and kept fighting after the war was over”.

    Peers arrived in Westminster on Wednesday morning armed with sleeping bags, toothbrushes and changes of clothes for a battle of attrition which is expected to continue through the night and long into the next day.

    The battle is over the allocation of time for debate in the House of Lords.

    Unlike the Commons, parliament’s second chamber does not have a “guillotine” procedure to bring debates to a halt and prevent interminable speeches by members hoping to talk a measure out.

    So Labour’s leader in the Lords, Baroness Smith of Basildon has tabled a motion to impose a timetable for forcing the Benn bill through all of its stages by 5pm on Friday, with the crucial second reading debate to be completed by 7pm on Thursday.In response, a group of around a dozen hardcore Brexiteers have tabled dozens of amendments, many of them doing no more than change or delete a few words.

    Other amendments attempt to give priority for debating time on Thursday to issues ranging from ecumenical marriage to bat habitats to land drainage.

    Under Lords rules, each amendment can be forced to two votes, taking a total of half an hour to complete, resulting in a long and wearying debate designed to run down the clock.

    A similar filibuster was attempted before Easter to obstruct Yvette Cooper’s bill to block no-deal, but on that occasion back-channel discussions between party managers made clear that the legislation would eventually be heard.
    One Labour source said that no such assurances had been made this time round, suggesting Tory peers are willing to take the fight to the bitter end.

    Under parliamentary rules, however, so long as the House has not adjourned, the debate is considered to be taking place “on Wednesday”.

    This means that if Lady Smith’s motion eventually passes, the following days will be regarded as the Thursday on Friday set aside for the bill, even if it involves sitting through the weekend.

    “Wednesday could be the longest day,” said the source. “Clearly people are intent on trying to stop the House getting to debate the Benn bill if it gets through the Commons. But the mood among supporters of the bill is positive. Our peers are outraged but they are up for this.”

  8. #128

  9. #129
    I'm sorry, the apparently necessary double and triple negatives are killing me. Grammar and math at the same time.

    So, a bill to keep them from going through with a no-deal Brexit.

    And then a bill to block that bill? Right?

    They should do this at Wimbledon.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kayak View Post
    I'm sorry, the apparently necessary double and triple negatives are killing me. Grammar and math at the same time.

    So, a bill to keep them from going through with a no-deal Brexit.

    And then a bill to block that bill? Right?

    They should do this at Wimbledon.
    That last post/article I put up is pro-Brexit people in the House of Lords trying to filibuster and block approval of the bill to block a no-deal Brexit...so basically....yeah. Haha! Camping out and talking it to death.

    Would be like our Senate filibustering a bill that already passed in the U.S. House of Representatives ....or so I understand. Run down the clock in other words, to avoid a vote, because the Parliament is mandated to adjourn next week.

  11. #131
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    The EU has stated quite clearly that there will be no deal on brexit.

    Brit politicians demanding a deal before brexit are not pro-brexit, just wearing camouflage.

    IMO.
    Buckle up, boys and girls. This could get a bit rough.

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  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tristan View Post
    The EU has stated quite clearly that there will be no deal on brexit.

    Brit politicians demanding a deal before brexit are not pro-brexit, just wearing camouflage.

    IMO.
    That's what I thought, too.

    Pass May's mess or nothing.

  13. #133
    The prorogue of Parliament begins on September 9. The pro Brexit Lords are going to try to run out the clock until then. What the above article says is that there is no way to kill off the debate unless they vote for the opposition bill to do so.

    And the Tory Lords have Nigel Farage and his new Brexit Party holding their feet to the fire. I can't imagine that there is much appetite to see their own party go down when there is an upstart party just waiting to take control.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plain Jane View Post
    The prorogue of Parliament begins on September 9. The pro Brexit Lords are going to try to run out the clock until then. What the above article says is that there is no way to kill off the debate unless they vote for the opposition bill to do so.

    And the Tory Lords have Nigel Farage and his new Brexit Party holding their feet to the fire. I can't imagine that there is much appetite to see their own party go down when there is an upstart party just waiting to take control.
    So, in other words, this play in the House of Lords might just succeed?

  15. #135
    I have been looking around to see if there is another strategy in play. If anything it may be through the courts but the case was already lost in Scotland. There may be other cases in other jurisdictions.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Tristan View Post
    The EU has stated quite clearly that there will be no deal on brexit.
    The EU is globalists. They will become remarkably flexible if there's a glimmer of hope.
    Better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.

  17. #137
    France wants the UK out so that they have more leverage against Germany.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/11...ohnson-no-deal

    Will Macron thwart Remainers' plot? EU shock - France to reject plea for Brexit extension
    FRENCH PRESIDENT Emmanuel Macron could thwart Remainers effort to stay inside the EU by rejecting by plea for an extension beyond the 31st October deadline
    By OLI SMITH
    00:01, Thu, Sep 5, 2019 | UPDATED: 00:05, Thu, Sep 5, 2019


    Emmanuel Macron could doom Remainers' effort to stop a no deal Brexit going through by refusing to grant an extension to the UK. This comes after MPs backed a bill aimed at blocking a no deal Brexit, which could trigger Boris Johnson to seek a general election. Opposition MPs and Tory rebels ensured the bill passed by 327 votes to 299.

    The bill forces the PM to ask for an extension beyond the 31 October Brexit deadline if a deal has not been agreed with the EU.

    However, Max Hofmann, DW Brussels Bureau Chief, said that Mr Macron is the biggest obstacle to a Brexit extension being granted.

    He told DW: “Even in the case of a snap election, that new government would have very little time to sort this out.

    “A request for an extension is likely to come, according to sources here in Brussels."

    He added: “When they extended it for the first time, it was a very tough thing to do.

    “Not with Merkel, she seems in the camp of if we have more time to sort it out, we should take it.”

    “But Macron is the obstacle. He was very hard to convince the first time and it will be even harder this time around.

    “He will only do it with a real perspective that things in the UK will change.

    The outcome of snap election, a different government, could be the thing he needs to do that

    “The EU automatically granting a Brexit extension? Not happening. It will need some serious convincing."

    Jean-Yves Le Drian, the French foreign minister, said on Tuesday that France opposes a further postponement of Brexit unless it was for a game-changing event.

    MEP Philippe Lamberts, who's in the Brexit Steering Group, confirmed to Channel 4 News tonight that there is "no negotiation" with the UK.

    He called Mr Johnson's reports of "progress" with Europe are "lies", adding that the Prime Minister wants a no deal Brexit to happen.

    Downing Street has denied reports that Brexit negotiations with Brussels are nothing more a “sham”.

    Addressing MPs in the Commons, Mr Johnson rubbished the claims and insisted that progress was being made.

  18. #138
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    Yup. Macron has said this before.

    Lots of flies in the ointment.

  19. #139




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  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plain Jane View Post
    The prorogue of Parliament begins on September 9. The pro Brexit Lords are going to try to run out the clock until then. What the above article says is that there is no way to kill off the debate unless they vote for the opposition bill to do so.

    And the Tory Lords have Nigel Farage and his new Brexit Party holding their feet to the fire. I can't imagine that there is much appetite to see their own party go down when there is an upstart party just waiting to take control.
    Many of the Tory Lords are good friends of Farage, he was a member of the Conservative Party during the Thatcher years

  21. #141
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    Peek inside Conservative HQ this morning


  22. #142
    OK first something seems to have been lost in "translation here."

    The EU HAD AGREED TO A DEAL, but ONLY A DEAL (that was drawn up) that "sorted" the Irish border issue with a BACKSTOP - in CASE NO OTHER DECISIONS WERE REACHED.

    What they have said is: They will NOT Accept ANY DEAL that DOES NOT INCLUDE A VIABLE AND WORKABLE SOLUTION FOR THE BORDER ON THE ISLAND OF IRELAND.

    That is not the same thing as "will not make a deal" though I agree the EU often muddies the waters, doesn't really want the UK to leave and if they do wants them to flounder and sink into the sea.

    But the "they won't accept a deal" simply isn't true, Teresa May had one drawn up that the EU signed on to, but because of the Irish backstop issue, it was rejected three times by Parliament.

    Or at least that was the official reason, there were probably others.

    The EU has said pretty much they will NOT CHANGE THAT DEAL, which has the result of having no deal, but it isn't the same thing as declaring there will not be one.

    I will do the breaking news in my next post so it doesn't get lost in this one.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  23. #143
    BREAKING NEWS:



    BBC Breaking News
    @BBCBreaking
    ·
    8m
    Jo Johnson, brother of UK PM, quits as Tory MP and minister saying he is "torn between family and national interest"
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  24. #144
    But will they grant the extension? Also, I have been checking around to see if there are any court cases still in play and I've seen no mention of any. Is that correct?

  25. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Plain Jane View Post
    But will they grant the extension? Also, I have been checking around to see if there are any court cases still in play and I've seen no mention of any. Is that correct?
    OK per the Irish papers this morning (I wanted to post but was still reading and didn't have time for extensive editing)but the basic answer is.

    The EU DOES NOT HAVE TO GRANT AN EXTENSION, but THEY CAN IF WANT TO.

    But, they have to get all 27 nations to "agree" and there are places like Finland that may not do so (at least not until they get whatever bribes they want from the EU HQ).

    The Irish government was stressing this morning that serious plans for a "hard" border in Ireland have to now be taken seriously because there is no guarantee that the EU will grant an extension even if the UK votes for one.

    However, the EU has said in the past that IT WOULD PROBABLY ALLOW an extension if AN ELECTION was taking place or something else that might radically change the situation.

    An election is almost certain now despite all the hype, but if it takes too long to be confirmed that could create a situation where the EU refuses an extension but they would be biting off their own foot to do so, so I don't think they will.

    The French are quite hostile to the UK, but the Germans know that the EU is better off with them than without them; which is true from an EU point of view but may not be the best option for the UK.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  26. #146
    Thanks, Melodi. I know that France and Germany are also in disagreement over bringing in Baltic nations and again, leverage for France is the sticking issue.

  27. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Plain Jane View Post
    Thanks, Melodi. I know that France and Germany are also in disagreement over bringing in Baltic nations and again, leverage for France is the sticking issue.
    Well, The Macaroon, like Finland is going to "want something" what exactly I am not sure but I'm sure he has something in mind, the politicians always do.

    The next "headaches" for the EU are going to be Poland and Italy (as well as the Balkan States) if Italy or Poland leave the EU is probably toasted in its current form (not a bad thing, but a thing).
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  28. #148
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKCN1VQ19H

    NEWSSEPTEMBER 5, 2019 / 6:17 AM / UPDATED AN HOUR AGO
    UK PM Johnson's suspension of parliament is an abuse of power, court hears
    Michael Holden
    3 MIN READ



    LONDON (Reuters) - British Prime Minister Boris Johnson abused his powers by suspending parliament from next week until shortly before Britain leaves the European Union, London’s High Court was told on Thursday.

    Johnson announced at the end of August that he would suspend parliament from mid-September to mid-October, just before Britain is due to exit the European Union on Oct. 31, to allow the government to announce a new legislative program.

    David Pannick, a lawyer representing the campaigner Gina Miller, told the court that in the last 40 years parliament had never been suspended for so long.

    Pannick said comments from Johnson showed that an important part of his reasoning was that parliament might say or do something that impeded the government’s Brexit plans.

    He cited Johnson’s note to aides on Aug. 16 dismissing the September gathering in the House of Commons as a “rigmarole” and saying he did not see “anything shocking” about suspending parliament.

    It breaches the legal principle of parliamentary sovereignty,” he said. “What the prime minister is not entitled to do is to close parliament for five weeks at such a critical time without justification.”

    The legal challenge has lost some of its relevance after lawmakers voted this week to force Johnson to seek a three-month delay to Brexit rather than leaving without a deal on Oct. 31 and there could soon be a general election.

    Pannick said the case was not about whether Britain should leave the EU or on what terms, nor was it a criticism of Queen Elizabeth who agreed to the government’s request for a suspension.

    He said Johnson’s case was that there was no precedence for such legal action.

    Our response is that there is no precedence because no prime minister in modern history has abused his power” to advise the Queen to suspend parliament for so long, he added.

    Miller, the campaigner who mounted a successful legal challenge to former Prime Minister Theresa May’s government over its authority to leave the EU without a vote in parliament, is seeking a judicial review.

    Her case is supported by former Conservative Prime Minister John Mayor and Shami Chakrabarti, the opposition Labour Party’s top legal adviser.

    On Wednesday, a Scottish court ruled that Johnson’s decision on the matter was not one for judges to decide. A similar legal bid in Northern Ireland will be heard on Friday.

    Editing by Andrew MacAskill and Stephen Addison

    Our Standards:The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.

    *************

    I knew there were court cases out there!

  29. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Plain Jane View Post
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49587610


    Brexit: Ireland will 'try' to impose checks away from border in no-deal


    Ireland will try to ensure checks in a no-deal Brexit will be done away from the border, Tánaiste Simon Coveney has said.

    He added Ireland would have to work to protect its place within the EU single market.

    Doing this without the backstop will lead to "unpalatable decisions", the Irish deputy prime minister said.

    Mr Coveney was speaking at an event in Dublin geared at preparing businesses for a no-deal Brexit.

    What is the Irish border backstop?
    Why is the Irish border blocking Brexit?
    How could backstop alternatives work?
    "These are difficult choices," Mr Coveney said.

    We do recognise the reality that Ireland will have a responsibility to protect its own place in the EU single market and that will involve some checks.

    "But I can assure you that we will try to do that in a way that limits the risk, and we will try and do it, obviously, away from the border."

    Ireland's latest contingency plan, published in July, said no deal would mean cross-border trade could not be as frictionless as it is now.

    But it does not elaborate on where and how such checks would take place.

    The Revenue Commissioners, Ireland's tax authority, has suggested that while all customs declarations could be filed electronically, up to 8% of consignments would still need to be physically checked for customs purposes.

    It says it is exploring ways of doing this at traders' premises or at designated warehouses.

    The Irish government has said it is giving its no-deal Brexit contingency plans "top priority".

    The cabinet met on Tuesday night to discuss the latest developments in Westminster, and said it noted that a no-deal Brexit is "increasingly likely".

    The legal default position is that the UK is due to leave the EU on 31 October, unless an extension is granted.

    The Irish government said it has issued an additional "call to action" to ensure that businesses are ready for the new regulatory requirements in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

    Mr Coveney said the Irish government would not allow the country to be "dragged out of the EU single market by default as a result of Brexit".

    "If we're not careful, we won't take the necessary action to protect the integrity of the single market, and therefore, our goods will be checked on the way into France, Germany or Belgium," he said.

    That would be hugely damaging to our business model and we cannot, and will not, allow that to happen.

    "That is why we will face difficult choices in the context of how we introduce a checking system, somewhere, away from the border, for obvious reasons, that can protect the integrity of the single market and reassure other EU countries that share the single market with us that we don't have an open back door into the single market through Northern Ireland, if it's unguarded."
    Fine. Kick the Brits out and unify Ireland.

    von Koehler
    Fad saol agat, gob fliuch, agus bás in Éirinn!

    Christianity is the estranged descendent of a bizarre Jewish apocalyptic cult.

    Kein Krieg für Israel!

  30. #150
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    So, what I gather from this morning, the House of Lords is gonna fold and pass the no-no-deal Brexit bill, and everybody is gonna trust Corbyn's merry band of Socialists that they will vote to hold an election before Oct. 31st.

    Good grief.


  31. #151
    It may depend on how those two remaining court cases unfold.

  32. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalknTrot View Post
    So, what I gather from this morning, the House of Lords is gonna fold and pass the no-no-deal Brexit bill, and everybody is gonna trust Corbyn's merry band of Socialists that they will vote to hold an election before Oct. 31st.

    Good grief.

    You also have the options of

    1, The Conservative Party launch a no confidence vote in Boris Johnson and force a General Election.

    2, Johnson goes to queen and steps down as Prime Minister forcing a General Election

    3, The Government passes legislation that a General Election can be passed with a majority vote instead of 2/3 majority.
    Doubtful as the Conservatives don't have a majority to pass the legislation

  33. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marthanoir View Post
    You also have the options of

    1, The Conservative Party launch a no confidence vote in Boris Johnson and force a General Election.

    2, Johnson goes to queen and steps down as Prime Minister forcing a General Election

    3, The Government passes legislation that a General Election can be passed with a majority vote instead of 2/3 majority.
    Doubtful as the Conservatives don't have a majority to pass the legislation
    My mind was just wandering to the possibility of Johnson stepping down. Would that trigger a quick election, or simply promote the next duckling in the line?
    Last edited by WalknTrot; 09-05-2019 at 08:11 AM.

  34. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by von Koehler View Post
    Fine. Kick the Brits out and unify Ireland.

    von Koehler
    I could live with that and we may have to, the EU is starting to indicate what I suspected all along was that part of the Boris "plan" was to dump everything on the Irish Republic to sort out and the EU has indicated that the Republic will have to "sort something out" or be forced out of the EU trading area.

    If they do that, expect a United Ireland within months and/or a semi-United Ireland with trade agreements with England; I can live with that as long as we can conduct business on this Island.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  35. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by WalknTrot View Post
    My mind was just wandering to the possibility of Johnson stepping down. Would that trigger a quick election. or simply promote the next duckling in the line?
    Per last night on BBC, if Boris decided to resign himself, the conservatives could pick a new leader.

    If his government resigned (and honestly I am not sure I totally understand the difference) then by tradition The Queen would "invited" Corbyn to "form a government" which there is an almost 99 percent chance he can't do with the current MPs and so there would be an election.

    Basically there is an election waiting to happen because without a majority in Parliament Boris can't pass much and all he needs is a bill that "has" to pass (a no-confidence type of bill) and the same thing happens.

    Corbyn gets called before the Queen, he can't form a government that can pass anything either (or not much) and there's an election.

    Without the party members BoJo Expelled and those who continue to walk on their own to be independents or join other parties he can not govern long in the UK system.

    To put it bluntly, he's got a Dead Government Walking at this point.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  36. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melodi View Post
    I could live with that and we may have to, the EU is starting to indicate what I suspected all along was that part of the Boris "plan" was to dump everything on the Irish Republic to sort out and the EU has indicated that the Republic will have to "sort something out" or be forced out of the EU trading area.

    If they do that, expect a United Ireland within months and/or a semi-United Ireland with trade agreements with England; I can live with that as long as we can conduct business on this Island.

    Can Ireland afford a United Ireland, expensive social programmes , free healthcare, free dental care, free schooling and not like our supposedly free school system,
    We can't even afford the Gardai let alone PSNI ,
    50%+ class themselves as British not Irish thats going to be a lot of pissed off people to police,
    Don't forget that during the troubles the Loyalist paramilitaries had larger numbers than the Republicans, the British Army went into Northern Ireland in 1969 to protect Catholics from the Loyalist pogroms,
    The Irish Government were even trying to smuggle arms to the Nationalist side to protect the Catholic enclaves.

    Even a mention of unification would have the Loyalist side up in arms with full scale revolt which the Gardai & the Irish Defence Forces would find extremely hard to quell.

  37. #157
    Nope Ireland can't afford it, I've mentioned this several times and that was explained to me by a former housemate from an old-old "IRA" family (his 96-year-old Dad led people "over the mountains" in the 1930s and his Dad's sister who I met when she was alive could remember the guns being stacked in their front yard during the Civil War).

    But, if it comes to a choice between "trying" for a United Ireland and/or staying in the EU but getting no benefits from it, I'm not sure there are a lot of good choices, simply the weighing up of bad ones.

    I can't see Ireland staying forever in an EU that simply punished them and to which they could no longer export goods under the current trade agreements or import them least then end up in the UK without tariffs and taxes.

    I think Ireland might stick around for a bit, but I guess we just have to see...the way forward is really murky right now.

    Edited to add that even a hint of a hard border especially one enforced with military back up, has already lit a match under the Republican paramilitary forces - again no easy solutions - this is part of people not being able to "pretend" that each side has already "won" that argument.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  38. #158
    The EU set the extorsion rate to high for anyone to leave.

  39. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Doat View Post
    The EU set the extorsion rate to high for anyone to leave.
    Greece almost did it when their economy collapsed, the UK probably will unless the Remainers get their "do-over vote" (they may not do a HARD BREXIT, but they will probably leave).

    Both Poland and Italy have been threatened with being kicked out.

    The EU is trying to make it impossible to really leave, I guess we wait and see if they manage it.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  40. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Melodi View Post
    I could live with that and we may have to, the EU is starting to indicate what I suspected all along was that part of the Boris "plan" was to dump everything on the Irish Republic to sort out and the EU has indicated that the Republic will have to "sort something out" or be forced out of the EU trading area.

    If they do that, expect a United Ireland within months and/or a semi-United Ireland with trade agreements with England; I can live with that as long as we can conduct business on this Island.
    Team Trump has been signaling that the U.S. is ready with UK-specific trade deals, once Brexit actually happens - not clear in these declarations by Team Trump: WHO, exactly, is "the UK" in this pending arrangement? Does it include Wales, or, Scotland, or, Republic of Ireland, or, Northern Ireland in its calculations?

    Since the Irish border sticking point seems to be one of the "front-and-center" issue hampering Brexit, why hasn't Team Trump announced that the U.S. is ready and able to assure that Ireland will be included in the pending post-Brexit trade deal? Seems to me that this would help take some of the steam out of this whole fiasco, if the Irish knew that the U.S. would "have their back" at some level, and they would not starve/run out of medical supplies, etc., while things were to settle out with regards to non-EU European trading, post-Brexit.

    Agendas within agendas - wheels within wheels . . .

    Thanks for the on-the-ground reports/perspectives, Melodi, Marth and Richard - helps all of us to understand the world that we live in.


    intothegoodnight


    ETA - instead of Greenland, maybe Team Trump should offer to BUY Ireland out from under the EU/Britain sphere of influence, and make it a territory of the U.S. - I am sure that many Scot/Irish-Americans could find agreement with that idea . . . might not be a bad deal for the Irish people, either, properly constructed - not sure how the Northern Irish folks might view such.
    Last edited by intothatgoodnight; 09-05-2019 at 04:36 PM.
    "Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

    — Dylan Thomas, "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night"

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