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BRKG BREXIT - UPDATE, Brit speaker of the House holds private talks with EU, bypassing Johnson, post 403
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  1. #161
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    As for Irland the brits just as well give that part they had control of back to the Irish.

  2. #162
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    This whole mess has gone far beyond the level of circus, and into the realm of the patently absurd. If Brits weren't aware of how dysfunctional their governmental system was before, they sure are now.

    British subjects (they're not citizens) HAVE NO VOICE IN HOW THEIR COUNTRY IS RUN. That should be hugely apparent now.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Publius View Post
    As for Irland the brits just as well give that part they had control of back to the Irish.
    Just like the Scots, most of them don't really want independence, because they need/want to ride on somebody else's gravy train. Seems that goes for a lot of the English, too.

  4. #164
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    Boris Johnson says he would rather 'be dead in a ditch' than delay Brexit, in rambling speech – live news

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-politics-live

    (This above link also includes sort of an all day running blog of events. Scroll down below the video at the site. I watched it yesterday, and it's pretty helpful.)

    Last edited by WalknTrot; 09-05-2019 at 01:32 PM.

  5. #165
    There is nothing said about the timing of an election but the EU seems to have put the onus on Corbyn.


    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/11...-boris-johnson

    Remainers' Brexit farce: EU tells Corbyn only way to get a delay is from general election
    REMAINERS' attempts to stop Boris Johnson from delivering Brexit on October 31 and force the Prime Minister to request a further extension to the negotiations may backfire as the European Union might only grant a delay with the condition the UK goes back to the polls for a general election.
    By ALESSANDRA SCOTTO DI SANTOLO


    Former MEP Elmar Brok, now an adviser to the European Commission, told Sky News the Brussels bloc may only agree to a delay to the Brexit negotiations past October 31 on the condition Britons go back to the polls for a general election or a second referendum. Mr Brok claimed MPs' attempts to stop a no deal Brexit scenario in Parliament on Wednesday night was no news to the EU negotiations who have been witnessing the same chaos coming from the Commons over the past year.

    He said: “There must be some change. We’ve seen this whole situation in the House of Commons for nearly one year, since November last year.

    “There’s no change.

    “If there is a new election or if there is a referendum, for example, promised, I think then we would give an extension.”

    MPs' decision to vote in favour of a bill that could force the Prime Minister to ask for an extension to the Article 50 process may, therefore, backfire if Parliament does not reach a majority for either a general election or a referendum.

    Following his second defeat in Parliament, Boris Johnson tabled a motion to call for a snap election to be held on October 15 which was scuppered by Labour MPs who abstained in the vote.

    Now, Jeremy Corbyn might be forced to agree to a general election if he wants to succeed in his quest to stop the Prime Minister from taking the UK out of the EU without a deal after all.

    Speaking to reporters on Thursday, the Prime Minister accused the Labour leader of being in "breach" of his job description.

    He said: “My intention as I said just now is that, and I’m absolutely determined to do this, is to deliver on the mandate of the people.

    “We have a democracy in this country.

    “And the way we work is that when the people take a decision, Paralmentarians are sworn to uphold that decision.

    And that’s what we all say we would do several times in the House of Commons, to respect the result of the 2016 referendum.

    “People voted by a very substantial majority to leave. We all said we would do it and that is what I want to do.

    “I think there is a stark contrast between my approach and - I hate to be party political but that is the sad reality - the approach of Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party.

    “At the moment, not only are they voting to make it impossible for this country to decide on its own term to leave the EU.

    “But they are also making it impossible for the people of this country to have an election.

    It must be the first leader of the opposition in history to refuse to have an election.

    “In fact to me, it seems to be a breach of his job description.”

    On a Brexit extension, the Prime Minister claimed he would "rather be dead in a ditch than ask for a delay".

    He added: "It costs £1billion a month to remain in the EU beyond October 31. It achieves absolutely nothing.

    "What on earth is the point in further delay? It is totally pointless."

  6. #166
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    ^ even the EU doesn't want Corbyn and he's on their side

  7. #167
    Is this the EU's hint to Corbyn that he needs to step down as leader of Labor? Is he of a mind to take such a hint?

  8. #168
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    Well, that sorta corks it. Election or hard Brexit...incoming.

    Maybe for once Macron wasn't blowing smoke.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plain Jane View Post
    Is this the EU's hint to Corbyn that he needs to step down as leader of Labor? Is he of a mind to take such a hint?
    Maybe they'll make him an offer like the DNC / Clinton did to Bernie

  10. #170
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    It want not to ling ago that the problem was the Prime Minster and they remover them from power and the new guy is giving the people what they voted for and now the people that have their hand in the till are exposing themselves.

  11. #171
    Remain loses another court case , appeal is on September 17.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...prorogue-legal

    Gina Miller defeated: High Court rejects desperate Remain bid – proroguing is legal
    BORIS JOHNSON’s decision to prorogue Parliament for five weeks ahead of the October 31 Brexit deadline sparked a sequence of events unprecedented in British political history, and today London’s high court rejected a legal challenge launched by Gina Miller.
    By EMILY FERGUSON
    10:11, Fri, Sep 6, 2019 | UPDATED: 10:26, Fri, Sep 6, 2019


    Staunch Remainer Gina Miller applied for a judicial review of the legality of proroguing Parliament and was joined by former prime minister John Major. Ms Miller, the businesswoman who successfully challenged the Government over the triggering of the Article 50 process to start the Brexit countdown, sought to challenge the legitimacy of Boris Johnson’s advice to the Queen regarding the decision to prorogue. The judge ruled that the Prime Minister did not act unlawfully by proroguing Parliament for five weeks ahead of the Brexit deadline. Rejecting Mrs Miller's case, Lord Justice Burnett said: "We have concluded that, whilst we should grant permission to apply for judicial review, the claim must be dismissed."



    Ms Miller will appeal to the Supreme Court and the appeal hearing is set to take place on September 17.

    Speaking outside the court, she said "it is absolutely votal that Parliament should be sitting".

    The Remainer added that she "stands for everyone".

    The case, which began yesterday, was just a preliminary hearing, to decide whether the application can proceed to a full hearing to consider the main arguments of the case.

    Lawyers for the Remainer argued that the real purpose of the parliamentary suspension is to prevent MPs from scrutinising and blocking a no deal Brexit.

    The case was argued before the lord chief justice, Lord Burnett of Maldon, the master of the rolls, Sir Terence Etherton, and the president of the Queen’s bench division, Dame Victoria Sharp at London’s high court today.

    The case is not challenging the Queen’s decision to approve prorogation, as this would not be possible, instead the campaigner seeks to challenge the advice Mr Johnson gave to the monarch.

    Lord Pannick QC, representing the businesswoman said that the five-week suspension was of “exceptional length”, saying in most cases it was for a week or less.

    Opening the preliminary hearing, Lord Pannick said: “There is no dispute that the Prime Minister is entitled to decide that it is appropriate now to end this session of Parliament.

    “We say that what the Prime Minister is not entitled to do is to close Parliament for five weeks at such a critical time without justification.”

    Sir John Major was given the go ahead to join Ms Miller in her legal action and intervene in the case in writing.

    He believes Mr Johnson’s move is aimed at preventing MPs from opposing a no deal Brexit.

    Lord Advocate James Wolffe QC, Scotland’s senior law officer, the Welsh government and shadow attorney general Shami Chakrabarti have also been given permission to intervene.

    Today’s court case follows the failed bid to challenge the legality of suspending Parliament.

    An Edinburgh court ruled on Wednesday that Mr Johnson’s decision to prorogue is lawful, but the parliamentarians who launched the legal challenge are appealing the outcome.

    The group of more than 70 largely pro-Remain politicians, headed by SNP MP Joanna Cherry, argue that Mr Johnson is exceeding his powers and attempting to undermine democracy by avoiding parliamentary scrutiny before the UK leaves the EU on October 31.

    Lord Doherty rejected their claim, saying it was for Parliament and the electorate to judge the Prime Minister’s actions rather than the courts.

    The judge said: “In my view, the advice given in relation to the prorogation decision is a matter involving high policy and political judgement.

    “This is political territory and decision making which cannot be measured against legal standards, but only by political judgements.

    Accountability for the advice is to parliament, and ultimately the electorate - not to the courts.”

    He said his opinion was therefore that there had been “no contravention of the rule of law” by the prime minister.

    After Lord Doherty’s ruling, a UK Government spokesman said: “We welcome the court’s decision and hope that those seeking to use the judiciary to frustrate the government take note and withdraw their cases.”

    A third case against the Prime Minister’s decision to prorogue Parliament is scheduled to be held in Belfast on September 16.

  12. #172
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKCN1VR0SV


    British opposition parties discuss PM Johnson's Brexit election gamble

    September 6, 2019

    LONDON (Reuters) - British opposition parties will discuss on Friday how to respond to Boris Johnson’s bid to call a snap election after the prime minister said he would rather die in a ditch than delay the planned Oct. 31 departure from the European Union.

    As the United Kingdom spins toward an election, Brexit remains up in the air more than three years after Britons voted to leave the bloc in a 2016 referendum. Options range from a turbulent ‘no-deal’ exit to abandoning the whole endeavor.

    British lawmakers will on Monday hold another vote on a motion on whether to hold an early election, the leader of the House of Commons, Jacob Rees-Mogg said.

    But opposition parties, including the Labour Party, want to ensure that an election does not allow Johnson to lead the United Kingdom out of the EU without a deal on Oct. 31.

    Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn will hold a conference call with other opposition parties on Friday, a Labour spokesman said. Johnson on Thursday said he would rather be “dead in a ditch” than delay Brexit.

    Former Prime Minister John Major said Johnson should fire Dominic Cummings, the advisor behind his high-stakes Brexit strategy.

    When asked about Major’s call, Cummings told Reuters: “Really? Trust the people”

    Writing by Guy Faulconbridge; editing by Kate Holton

    Our Standards:The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles

  13. #173
    I can predict with no psychic ability what-so-ever that the opposition parties are likely to change their tune the moment the passed extension is fully passed and signed by the crown.

    I could be wrong, this game is getting so confusing it is hard to follow even for trained British political analysts who started using words like "uncharted waters" days ago.

    The High Court in London ruling that Boris can ask for a 5-week suspension of Parliament, provided it is upheld on appeal (I think it will be) now puts into law that a Prime Minister can do this.

    But that doesn't change the rest of the mess...
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  14. #174
    Is it your opinion that Corbyn would step down as leader of the Labor Party?

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Plain Jane View Post
    Is it your opinion that Corbyn would step down as leader of the Labor Party?
    Not unless he is "forced" to either by his own party or by party "doners" or "others" working behind the scenes.

    That could happen, but he's proved himself to be a master politician at least in terms of surviving the unexpected.

    I used to think he was just a "Beardie Weirdie" (local slang for kind of loopy left-winger or weird guy)but I've watched him recover from situations that would have sunk most politicians over and over again.

    He also is like most politicians in that he has an ego the size of a house (BoJo has one the size of a Battleship) and may simply not believe that a lot of people are more scared of him and his potential policies than they are of a Hard Brexit.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  16. #176
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    Corbyn reminds me of a more polished version of Bernie Sanders. With about the same "teens to 20%" crackpot brigade backing him up, and even THEY would be afraid of him actually having any power...let alone the rest of the country.

  17. #177
    OK some in the EU has processed that making the Republic the total fall guy for all this might likely result in the Republic leaving the EU - the flip side of this "solution" is that there is a joke about an "Orish solution" is pretty much to do nothing and hope it will "be just grand."

    By which I mean this EU proposal makes sense, except I suspect the Germans have one idea of "gradually working things out" (probably about 6 months) and the Irish have another view of "gradual" say about six to ten years, maybe...

    Also when you read this substitute the worlds "politically sensitive" for "spark off violence/a renewed civil war" and you can really get the picture.

    EU 'gradual approach' to border checks in no-deal Brexit - sources
    Updated / Friday, 6 Sep 2019 13:00

    By Tony Connelly
    Europe Editor

    The EU will take a gradual approach to the question of how Ireland will have to comply with checks and controls along the Irish border in the event of a no-deal Brexit, RTE News understands.

    Sources have portrayed a scenario where on day one of a no-deal Brexit, it will be acknowledged that Ireland is not fully in compliance with the obligations that come when a member state shares a border with a third country.

    It is understood that for a period afterwards, the EU will assume a "partnership" role, allowing the Irish government to apply the rules of the single market and customs union as best it can, while providing advice and support, whether technical or financial, over time.

    There have been several meetings between Irish and European Commission officials in recent months on how a no-deal Brexit should be managed on the Irish border, but these have tended to be high-level political, rather than technical, and involving a small core group of senior officials.

    RTE News understands that a distinction is being made between how to envisage the impact of a no-deal Brexit ahead of time, and how it is actually responded to from day one.

    In this scenario, a full technical assessment of how Ireland's obligations will be managed will only happen after November 1 in "real world" conditions.

    Individuals familiar with the situation say that only then can the "political dynamics" of no-deal on the island of Ireland be properly assessed.

    It is understood that the EU will initially take what might be described as a passive role, given that under EU treaties it is up to member states to apply the rules governing customs collection, food safety, animal health and product compliance.

    Over time Dublin would be expected to communicate to the EU how it is managing different checks and controls, if some controls are simply politically too perilous, and what flexibility might be available.

    However, it is understood both Dublin and Brussels acknowledge that there can be no derogations from EU law.

    "There will be an understanding on our side that things are not exactly how they should be," according to one person familiar with the issue, "but an understanding on the [Irish] side that they need to demonstrate they are progressing and that they have a plan.

    "The help they need will come afterwards. They'll say, this is how we're doing it, we need help and we need interaction."


    It is likely that the EU would resist an open-ended time gap in compliance
    It is understood a phased approach could be taken to how a no-deal situation is managed.

    This would involve an initial period during which the Irish authorities carefully assess which checks are manageable and which are politically too sensitive in the immediate aftermath of a no-deal exit.

    Dublin could then make an assessment after several weeks or months which would be communicated to Brussels.

    If there remains a gap between limited compliance and full compliance with single market and customs rules, both sides would then work on how the gap can be bridged, taking all the "specificities" of the Irish border question into account.

    However, it is likely that the EU would resist an open-ended time gap in compliance.

    It is acknowledged in Brussels that when assessing the most acute difficulties the Irish government is facing, over time technical talks will become "political talks".

    On Wednesday the European Commission issued its most explicit statement to date on the Irish border, when it published its sixth communication on no-deal preparedness.

    The communication stated: "EU law will require that all goods entering Ireland from the United Kingdom be subject to the relevant checks and controls to protect the safety and health of EU citizens, preserve the integrity of the internal market and enforce compliance with fiscal obligations (duties, indirect taxes).

    "The Commission and Ireland continue working together, in the context of the unique situation on the island of Ireland and their twin objectives of protecting the integrity of the internal market while avoiding a hard border, to identify arrangements both for contingency solutions for the immediate aftermath of a withdrawal without an agreement and for a more stable solution for the period thereafter."

    There are some 63 checks and controls that potentially apply on goods entering the EU from a third country.

    Under EU rules each member state is responsible for applying the rules governing product safety, food safety, animal health, as well as other controls for dangerous substances, endangered species, and prohibited goods.
    https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0906/10...border-checks/
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by WalknTrot View Post
    Corbyn reminds me of a more polished version of Bernie Sanders. With about the same "teens to 20%" crackpot brigade backing him up, and even THEY would be afraid of him actually having any power...let alone the rest of the country.
    He does, except think of a Bernie who is in control of his political party and who WILL BE the head of the executive branch IF his party wins.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  19. #179
    I know what you're getting ar with " politically sensitive ", but they keep talking about duties, etc. on goods and services. I have seen no mention in any of about how Mrs. Macdougall gets from one end of her yard to the other end without going through a checkpoint, much less Farmer Mc Roberts. That is going to be a huge problem. Especially if Farmer McRoberts is interested in a little bit of black market trade.

    They would have to deploy drones, cameras, I don't know what all.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Plain Jane View Post
    I know what you're getting ar with " politically sensitive ", but they keep talking about duties, etc. on goods and services. I have seen no mention in any of about how Mrs. Macdougall gets from one end of her yard to the other end without going through a checkpoint, much less Farmer Mc Roberts. That is going to be a huge problem. Especially if Farmer McRoberts is interested in a little bit of black market trade.
    Oh, it doesn't cover that at all, I think the "fiction" here is that as long as somehow "border controls" on goods can somehow mythically be handled "away from" the border no real border will need to exist.

    And by some miracle that actually does work, then it is sort of like other borders where there are decisions made to place individual homes or villages on one or the other side of the border (we are on a county border with part of our village in one county and partly in another but that's a county thing).

    The problem is, if "politically sensitive" happens anyway - and since it is already starting I suspect it will, and the violence, bombings, gang smuggling, paramilitary activity etc steps back up on both sides in Ulster, then a return to a "hard border" will mean a REAL border, probably another militarized one.

    When/if the hard border has to return, that is when the serious and extremely difficult to sort out issues of people's front doors, the village main street (called High Streets here) and the closers with barbed wire and checkpoints on roads would come back into play.

    London won't want to pay for it, and The Republic doesn't have the manpower or the cash - something I think the EU is finally waking up to if this article is anything to go by.

    The article is also admitting the EU simply CAN NOT demand Ireland follow all the regulations from day one, it is physically impossible without establishing something similar to a wartime blockade, one that would involve part of the Island itself.

    As a practical and political matter, that simply isn't happening.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  21. #181
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    Watch: Khan Wanted Election Just Hours Before Corbyn Blocked it
    Oliver JJ Lane
    3-4 minutes
    2:25

    London Labour Mayor Sadiq Khan apparently hadn’t received the day’s talking points from Labour head office Wednesday, as he expressed his disappointment at there not having been a general election recently just hours before Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn sensationally blocked one from taking place.

    Speaking to a crowd of die-hard anti-Brexit campaigners outside the Palace of Westminster Wednesday afternoon, the London’s Mayor laid into Boris Johnson for not having faced the ballot box since becoming Prime Minister. These comments followed the standard Labour playbook, which naturally for a party of opposition sees its members agitate for an early general election, the best and most direct means for that party to take control of the country.

    Mr Khan told the crowd: “…No one voted for Boris Johnson to be our Prime Minister. No one voted for someone to disrespect the office of Prime Minister, and display such disregard for our democratic values… this goes beyond remain or leave. This is about defending our democracy.”

    These comments chimed with hundreds of others made by his party leader Jeremy Corbyn over the past two years, as he repeatedly told his supporters and the country that his party was ready for, and wanted a general election as soon as possible. Indeed, as recently as Monday Mr Corbyn wrote: “We are ready for a General Election, which will be a once in a generation chance for a real change of direction for our country.”

    Yet the Labour leader was perhaps not as ready as he has persistently and strongly insisted, as just hours after Sadiq Khan goaded Boris Johnson over having never faced the electorate, the Prime Minister attempted to trigger a general election, which would put him and the rest of Parliament before the British people for ratification or dismissal.

    My Corbyn blocked the election, claiming he could not permit an election which could lead to Britain leaving the European Union — in effect, saying he refused to have a vote where the British people might vote in a way he’d disagree with.

    Boris Johnson will attempt to bring a vote to confirm a fresh national election on Monday, but it is not clear whether the Labour leader and his MPs will have dropped their objections, and wish to recover from the embarrassment of being the first opposition in British democratic history to decline an election when offered one.

    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/201...d-an-election/

  22. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melodi View Post
    OK some in the EU has processed that making the Republic the total fall guy for all this might likely result in the Republic leaving the EU - the flip side of this "solution" is that there is a joke about an "Orish solution" is pretty much to do nothing and hope it will "be just grand."

    By which I mean this EU proposal makes sense, except I suspect the Germans have one idea of "gradually working things out" (probably about 6 months) and the Irish have another view of "gradual" say about six to ten years, maybe...

    Also when you read this substitute the worlds "politically sensitive" for "spark off violence/a renewed civil war" and you can really get the picture.

    EU 'gradual approach' to border checks in no-deal Brexit - sources
    Updated / Friday, 6 Sep 2019 13:00

    By Tony Connelly
    Europe Editor

    The EU will take a gradual approach to the question of how Ireland will have to comply with checks and controls along the Irish border in the event of a no-deal Brexit, RTE News understands.

    Sources have portrayed a scenario where on day one of a no-deal Brexit, it will be acknowledged that Ireland is not fully in compliance with the obligations that come when a member state shares a border with a third country.

    .....continued previous
    Well, at least it looks like people may be starting to face the nuts and bolts of it. I saw mention yesterday of a customs system set up "off-border" in warehouses, etc. where shipments can be inspected, any taxes assigned, etc. Sounds like a decent plan to start with...and maybe continue with. Both sides pay for as much of a customs filter as they deem necessary, but keep it out of the neighborhoods.

    The system could be full of real world holes, but the place has been running on everyone keeping their head in the sand and hiding from a permanent resolution to the underlying problem for years, so....might work.

  23. #183
    Yes, I am very glad to be seeing the start of some actual practical workarounds at least, for now, it is a refreshing change from apocalyptic visions of three days waits for trucks while food and animals wilt or die inside waiting for customs checks or threats of waiting eight hours on the Irish "border" to get to work and back.

    As for the election situation, the Chess Game is VERY SIMPLE.

    The Labour Party and most of the other Opposition parties DO WANT an election, but they WON'T VOTE for one until after the Crown signs the No-BREXIT on OCT 31st without a withdrawal agreement/treaty.

    BORIS, on the other hand, WANTS AN ELECTION RIGHT NOW because as Prime Minister he has the legal right to SET THE DATE FOR THE ELECTION.

    He has already proven he is willing to suspend Parliament for five weeks during a national crises period (and legally can do) and there is absolutely nothing stopping him from changing his mind on the proposed election date of Oct 15th to say Nov 3rd in order to make sure a Hard Brexit happens no matter what.

    As soon as the Crown signs into law the "no BREXIT without an Agreement on Oct 31st" Labour and the other parties will probably be clamoring for an election.

    Boris Johnson will then have to decide if he will follow the other part of that new law that requires him to ASK the EU for such an extension (which he says he would rather be dead than do) or resign.

    I suppose he can also continue to look for ancient and arcane ways to work around the usual traditions and try to stay in his job without either going to the EU or tendering his resignation, but I suspect at that point either half the Tory party walks away and forms the "New Conservative Party" or something and/or they vote him out with a vote of no-confidence.

    BoJo really has reached the point that he is upsetting, annoying and even seen as a threat by many of his party members that WANT a BREXIT, he's trying to be Teddy Rosevelt and Winston Churchill but his Big Stick is starting to whip back to hit him in the head.

    For whatever reasons he just doesn't seem to have the gravitas to pull this sort of thing off, Teddy and Churchill both did.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  24. #184
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    I'm wondering if he doesn't already have assurances from one or several EU members that there will be no extension...so more or less just watching the world tick by.

  25. #185
    Oh good grief, we really are now way-way-way passed Circus and into Idiocracy - not only is sky news reporting that all the opposition parties have agreed to block a new election (so that would force Boris to resign eventually when he can't pass any legislation) and

    15:27

    Tory press office delivers Corbyn 'chicken' to Westminster journalists


    Jim Pickard
    @PickardJE
    the Tory press office has just delivered actual chicken breasts to lobby journalists in a somewhat peculiar move even by the usual standards of political gimmicks

    and

    Conservatives committing to the whole “Corbyn is a chicken”. HARD.

    A “JFC” delivery has just been made to the press gallery. ��


    Tony Diver
    @Tony_Diver
    Just delivered to the lobby by someone in a chicken costume...a follow up to the Corbyn Fried Chicken ad.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  26. #186
    From The Guardian:

    Opposition parties agree to block election until Brexit delay secured
    Jeremy Corbyn and other party leaders commit to voting down snap election plan on Monday


    Latest Brexit developments – live updates
    Heather Stewart Political editor

    Fri 6 Sep 2019 13.14 BSTLast modified on Fri 6 Sep 2019 13.24 BST
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    Jeremy Corbyn
    Jeremy Corbyn had faced a Labour backlash for saying he would be ready to support Boris Johnson’s call for an election once anti-no-deal legislation had passed. Photograph: Peter Powell/EPA


    Opposition parties have agreed to reject Boris Johnson’s attempt to trigger a snap election for a second time on Monday, making it increasingly unlikely a poll will be held before 31 October.

    Jeremy Corbyn held the latest of a series of discussions with fellow opposition leaders on Friday morning, at which they agreed not to allow an election to take place until after a delay to Brexit has been secured.

    Downing Street has tabled a motion under the Fixed-term Parliaments Act for a second time asking MPs to approve an early general election. It requires the support of two-thirds of MPs to pass – impossible without the backing of opposition parties.

    Brexit: Boris Johnson must wait until November for election after opposition deal, say

    Plaid Cymru’s Westminster leader, Liz Saville Roberts, who was involved in the talks, said: “We need to make sure that we get past 31 October, and an extension to article 50. We were in agreement that the prime minister is on the run. Boris is broken. We have an opportunity to bring down Boris, to break Boris, and to bring down Brexit – and we must take that.

    “Just as [it would have] this week, a vote for a general election would play into Boris Johnson’s hands. It would allow him to ignore the legislation that is presently going through the House of Lords.”

    Advertisement
    She added: “Our intention is to be here, in this place, to hold him to account and to make sure that he abides by that law.”

    The backbench-led bill mandates Johnson to seek an extension to article 50 if he has failed to secure a new Brexit deal by 19 October. It is expected to receive royal assent on Friday.

    Corbyn told MPs in the House of Commons on Wednesday that he would be ready to support Johnson’s call for a general election once the legislation had passed, saying: “Let this bill pass and gain royal assent, and then we will back an election so we do not crash out of the European Union with a no-deal exit.”

    But he faced a backlash from Labour MPs anxious about Johnson engineering a no-deal Brexit. Their concerns were intensified by the prime minister’s insistence on Thursday that he would rather be “dead in a ditch” than request a delay to Brexit.


    Boris Johnson: 'I'd rather be dead than ask for Brexit delay' – video

    Asked about Johnson’s comments, Saville Roberts said: “Being prime minister was one of the ticks on Boris Johnson’s megalomaniac bucket list. If he wanted to be PM, he takes the responsibilities that comes with it.”

    Labour has not ruled out tabling a vote of no confidence in Johnson’s government, but with parliament due to be prorogued by next Thursday at the latest, time is running out to do so in time for an October election.

    If Johnson lost a vote of no confidence, opposition parties would have 14 sitting days to assemble an alternative majority. If they failed to do so, an election would be triggered 25 days later.

    A Labour spokesperson said: “Jeremy Corbyn hosted a positive conference call with other opposition party leaders this morning. They discussed advancing efforts to prevent a damaging no-deal Brexit and hold a general election once that is secured.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-delay-secured
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  27. #187
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    Plaid Cymru’s Westminster leader, Liz Saville Roberts, who was involved in the talks, said:

    We have an opportunity to bring down Boris, to break Boris, and to bring down Brexit – and we must take that.

  28. #188
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    Haha! Yep. Getting silly. So Boris is off communing with bulls in Scotland today, it's Friday, almost suppertime in Merry Old England, and the weekend is upon our cousins across the pond. Next week (I thought Monday?) everybody in Parliament gets a 5 week vacation, and if nothing is done about the "Boris problem" by then, he sits in office until at least Oct 15th(?). By then, it's too late to do anything but hard Brexit 2 weeks later. Leaving Johnson in office (no election) continues him chief negotiator with the EU. Don't see how that keeps him anywhere but still in the driver's seat as far as Oct. 31st goes. Happy Halloween Everybody!
    Last edited by WalknTrot; 09-06-2019 at 10:13 AM.

  29. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Olson View Post
    We have an opportunity to bring down Boris, to break Boris, and to bring down Brexit – and we must take that.
    Because the people voted the wrong way.
    Better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.

  30. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by WalknTrot View Post
    Haha! Yep. Getting silly. So Boris is off communing with bulls in Scotland today, it's Friday, almost suppertime in Merry Old England, and the weekend is upon our cousins across the pond. Next week (I thought Monday?) everybody in Parliament gets a 5 week vacation, and if nothing is done about the "Boris problem" by then, he sits in office until at least Oct 15th(?). By then, it's too late to do anything but hard Brexit 2 weeks later. Leaving Johnson in office (no election) continues him chief negotiator with the EU. Don't see how that keeps him anywhere but still in the driver's seat as far as Oct. 31st goes. Happy Halloween Everybody!
    I gather that for some technical reason or another the Parliament can sit until Thursday - but at this point who knows?

    Nothing would surprise me at this point...
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  31. #191
    BBC Breaking News
    @BBCBreaking
    ·
    44m
    UK's House of Lords approves legislation aimed at blocking a possible no-deal #Brexit

    http://bbc.in/2Lvmg2x
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  32. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melodi View Post
    I gather that for some technical reason or another the Parliament can sit until Thursday - but at this point who knows?

    Nothing would surprise me at this point...
    Hopefully all parties involved will take the weekend to work out their plans...and frustrations.

    I still can't figure the thinking of the opposition not holding elections and just running with Johnson in office and as chief negotiator. (I assume it must be because they know they will lose.) All he has to do is insult the wrong person/entity or demand more than they are willing to give, and the EU will sent Britain packing....no-no-deal legislation or not. And God knows Boris is more than capable of it.

    High drama and history in the making.

  33. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by WalknTrot View Post
    the EU will sent Britain packing....no-no-deal legislation or not.
    An article on this thread said the no-deal-exit will finally be the result of EU choice.
    Better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.

  34. #194
    I think someone needs to get all these guys a nice sandbox, some buckets, and some tiny shovels so they can act their ages...
    Tweet
    Conversation
    Sky News Breaking
    @SkyNewsBreak
    Sky News can reveal Boris Johnson described David Cameron as a "girly swot" in a redacted hand-written note which was shown in court this week
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  35. #195
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    This is such a mess, that I can't really give a comment, other than to say I support the abused
    British people and the confounded Irish. ,
    It is awesome that all this will come to an end on Halloween Night.
    SS


    'Second court rules in favor of Boris Johnson's suspension of Parliament

    By John Bowden - 09/06/19 09:43 AM EDT



    Second court rules in favor of Boris Johnson's suspension of Parliament
    © Getty Images

    A panel of three judges dismissed a case brought by Britain's former Prime Minister John Major and businesswoman Gina Miller arguing that current Prime Minister Boris Johnson's attempt to suspend Parliament through prorogation is an abuse of power, Bloomberg reported Friday.

    The case will be appealed to the U.K.'s highest court, handing Johnson a second legal victory and setting up a final battle over Parliament and likely the fate of the U.K.'s exit from the European Union (EU) in the Supreme Court.


    Miller slammed the ruling in a press conference Friday, according to Bloomberg, and vowed to continue the battle before the nation's highest court.

    “Today we stand for everyone, we stand for future generations, and we stand for representative democracy,” she reportedly said. “To give up now would be a dereliction of our responsibilities.”

    “As disappointed with the result as Mrs. Miller will be, we will go to the Supreme Court,” her attorney reportedly added.

    Johnson has attempted to suspend British Parliament over its so-far successful efforts to block a "no-deal Brexit," or a departure from the EU without a formal trading agreement and provisions to ensure free passage in and out of the U.K., particularly on the border of Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

    The U.K. is set to leave the EU on Oct. 31, which currently sits as the deadline for passing an agreement on border protections and trade.

    https://thehill.com/policy/internati...-of-parliament
    “Then the creatures of the high air answered to the battle, .., and the woods trembled and the wind sobbed telling them, the earth shook,; the witches of the valley, and the wolves of the forests, howled from every quarter and on every side of the armies, urging them against one another.”
    ― Lady Gregory, Gods and Fighting Men: The Story of the Tuatha De Danaan and the Fianna of Ireland

  36. #196
    Can we Americans get a definition of 'swot' please? Urban Dictionary says it's someone who values education over social life? It makes it sound like this is an insult hurled at someone smarter than you, and that doesn't seem right in this context.

  37. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kayak View Post
    Can we Americans get a definition of 'swot' please? Urban Dictionary says it's someone who values education over social life? It makes it sound like this is an insult hurled at someone smarter than you, and that doesn't seem right in this context.
    Yeah sorta, somebody at school who studies constantly and doesn't have any fun, no friends, bookworm, teachers pet

    Not really the worst of insults but amongst public school boys (UK private schools) it packs a punch.

    Do you have the Beano comics in the US?

    Cuthbert was the class swot,

  38. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marthanoir View Post
    Yeah sorta, somebody at school who studies constantly and doesn't have any fun, no friends, bookworm, teachers pet

    Not really the worst of insults but amongst public school boys (UK private schools) it packs a punch.

    Do you have the Beano comics in the US?

    Cuthbert was the class swot,
    Haha! Seems hardly worth getting bent out of shape over...or making breaking national headlines.

  39. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by WalknTrot View Post
    Haha! Seems hardly worth getting bent out of shape over...or making breaking national headlines.
    Except it is the current Prime Minister referring to one of his predecessors from his own party, really it is just another example of unprofessional and childish behavior of which Boris is certainly not the only one; but he is the one that is the Prime Minister at the moment.

    Hence my sandbox references...
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  40. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kayak View Post
    Can we Americans get a definition of 'swot' please? Urban Dictionary says it's someone who values education over social life? It makes it sound like this is an insult hurled at someone smarter than you, and that doesn't seem right in this context.
    Definitive explanation:

    http://www.bbcamerica.com/anglopheni...s-and-boffins/

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