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BRKG BREXIT - UPDATE, Brit speaker of the House holds private talks with EU, bypassing Johnson, post 403
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  1. #81
    From Sky News Breaking News
    https://news.sky.com/story/live-labo...armer-11801840

    BREAKING
    LIVE: MPs take control of Commons to stop Boris Johnson pursuing no-deal Brexit
    Latest updates on another dramatic day in Westminster as MPs continue their efforts to block a no-deal Brexit.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  2. #82
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    I find all of this to be profoundly disturbing, and I don't even live there.
    Your levity is good, it relieves tension and the fear of death.

    The Frigid Times - http://www.frigidtimes.blogspot.com/
    Civil Defense Reborn - http://cdreborn.blogspot.com/
    Believe what you will, but the Russian nuclear threat is far from dead. It ain't even sick. - Brutus

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melodi View Post
    Last night and today we're supposed to be treated as "votes of no confidence" or that is what Downing Street said last night; but then Boris didn't start with these breaks in tradition, there has never been an attempt in modern times (I gather) for a group of MPs to "take control" of Parliament from the Prime Minister either (that happened last night/today).

    Here is just one twitter comment:

    steve hawkes
    @steve_hawkes
    ·
    1h
    No10 spokesman confirms Boris Johnson will not be resigning . We’re in that territory already
    There is precedent in the UK & Ireland for removing the party whip for anybody who votes against party lines unless a free vote is given,

    Sinn Fein chose to suspend Peadar Tóibín instead of removing the whip over the 8th ammendment vote but it has been done by all parties in Ireland and the UK through out history.

  4. #84
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    The Maastricht Rebels were British members of Parliament (MPs) belonging to the then governing Conservative Party who refused to support the government of Prime Minister John Major in a series of votes in the House of Commons on the issue of the implementation of the Maastricht Treaty(Treaty on European Union) in British law.

    The Maastricht Rebellion was a major event in the life of John Major's troubled second term as Prime Minister (1992–1997). Major's party had a small majority, thus giving the relatively small number of rebels disproportionate influence: for example, there were 22 rebels on the second reading of the European Communities (Amendment) Bill in May 1992, and the government's majority at the time was only 18.

    The rebellion had the support of former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and former Party Chairman Norman Tebbit.

    Those who had the whip withdrawn following the EC Finance Bill:

    Michael Carttiss (Great Yarmouth)
    Nicholas Budgen (Wolverhampton South West)
    Tony Marlow (Northampton North)
    John Wilkinson (Ruislip Northwood)
    Richard Shepherd (Aldridge-Brownhills)
    Teresa Gorman (Billericay)
    Christopher Gill (Ludlow)
    Sir Teddy Taylor (Southend East)
    Sir Richard Body (Holland with Boston) (resigned whip voluntarily following the withdrawal of the whip from the above eight)

    Other MPs who had whip withdrawn for failure to support the government on a confidence issue related to Maastricht:

    Rupert Allason (Torbay)

    After the Conservatives' catastrophic defeat at the 1997 election, blamed in part on the embarrassment caused by the open rebelliousness and infighting of elements in the party, changes were made to the party's procedures to reduce the freedom of backbench MPs to rebel. Local constituency associations are now permitted to select as candidates only members of the approved party list or MPs with the whip.

    The party leadership could therefore require a rebellious MP (or an MP involved in a scandal) to be deselected as a candidate by removing his or her name from the Candidates' List or by removing the whip as was done to*Howard Flight at the 2005 general election. Local members who refuse to obey the instructions of Conservative Central Office can have their Association suspended (put on "Special Measures"), as was done to the Slough Association at that election when they refused to deselect their candidate.


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maastricht_Rebels

  5. #85
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    They're pulling their playbook from Pelosi and Co.
    My Message to the Fake Stream Media......
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhSy-6VqIww

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Marthanoir View Post
    There is precedent in the UK & Ireland for removing the party whip for anybody who votes against party lines unless a free vote is given,

    Sinn Fein chose to suspend Peadar Tóibín instead of removing the whip over the 8th ammendment vote but it has been done by all parties in Ireland and the UK through out history.
    Yeah, but I could be wrong (and please say so if I am) I don't think it has ever been used in such large numbers; now it might have been in Ireland but the political analysts last night were saying in the UK it tended to be the occasional individual or two - not twenty plus.

    But like I said the "tradition" breaking started with the "Rebel" and other MP's taking over the place away from the Prime Minister - uncharted waters.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melodi View Post
    Yeah, but I could be wrong (and please say so if I am) I don't think it has ever been used in such large numbers; now it might have been in Ireland but the political analysts last night were saying in the UK it tended to be the occasional individual or two - not twenty plus.

    But like I said the "tradition" breaking started with the "Rebel" and other MP's taking over the place away from the Prime Minister - uncharted waters.
    Never 21 that I know of in Ireland or UK, the Maastrict one was the one that stuck in my mind, usually its only a handful,

    Be interesting to see which way this goes, a General Election has to be called as there is a minority government that basically powerless , a leadership challenge won't resolve that,
    Labour won't support a GE as Corbyn will lose, Lib Dems will do well with the remain side but won't have the numbers to form a government and they won't do a deal with Corbyn,
    Boris will be returned to power with the help of the Brexit party (officially or unofficially ) with a mandate from the voters to get Brexit done, deal or no deal. Parliament will be unable to take a stand against them.

    We're heading into uncharted waters now, a government without a working majority and an opposition that won't support a call for General Election,
    This could also bring down the Irish Government as there's already calls of Where's Leo , FG have been living on borrowed time since Kenny stepped down and FF are only offering support on an issue by issue basis

    Like the quote from Idiocracy , ""when they say Lead , Follow or Get Out The Way your not supposed to choose Get Out The Way

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Marthanoir View Post
    We're heading into uncharted waters now, a government without a working majority and an opposition that won't support a call for General Election
    Does a government deadlock mean they could just run the clock to Oct 31 and it's done?
    Better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.

  9. #89
    Thanks Marth! Great ending quote - I keep calling this a Circus but Idiocracy works too...
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melodi View Post
    Thanks Marth! Great ending quote - I keep calling this a Circus but Idiocracy works too...
    To be honest there should have been a General Election when the first deadline was missed, put it to the people, they calling for a 2nd referendum, a General Election would have been the ultimate referendum,

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by bw View Post
    Does a government deadlock mean they could just run the clock to Oct 31 and it's done?
    That's what I would like to know

  12. #92
    they could keep getting delays from the EU and calling for votes from 'the people' till they get the answer they want

  13. #93
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    Neither Britain nor the EU have the slightest interest in "democracy." Both entities are entirely communist.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by bw View Post
    Does a government deadlock mean they could just run the clock to Oct 31 and it's done?
    Quote Originally Posted by GammaRat View Post
    That's what I would like to know
    The remainers are stalling for time so they can get legislation through that will prevent a no-deal Brexit , if they get written into law that Britain can't leave until the get an acceptable deal that passes the parliament then they can forestall Brexit or at least get a leave but don't really leave deal

  15. #95
    But if the remainers can pass no such law, do they just coast into a no-deal Brexit by default?
    Better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by bw View Post
    But if the remainers can pass no such law, do they just coast into a no-deal Brexit by default?
    Haven't got a clue, don't think anybody else does either , I'm sure both sides have advisers telling them what they want to hear,

  17. #97






  18. #98
    Extension Bill passes Commons, BoJo speaking now ...BBC live
    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-49557734

    The Bill now goes to the house of Lords where many brought overnight gear...
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  19. #99
    BoJo calls for an election on the 15th of October - the ball is now in Coryben's court
    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-49557734
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  20. #100
    Corben replies there can be an election as soon as the BREXIT delay bill is passed and approved by the crown
    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-49557734
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  21. #101
    Corben calls for a new referendum or an election..
    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-49557734
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  22. #102
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    It's a shame that Brits are so emasculated that they cannot make themselves rise up in righteous wrath and drag these globalists out into the street and beat them to death.

  23. #103
    Scottish MP (SNP Party) calls for a new referendum on Scottish Independence
    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-49557734
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  24. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melodi View Post
    Scottish MP (SNP Party) calls for a new referendum on Scottish Independence
    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-49557734
    Good Lord, what a mess.
    Your levity is good, it relieves tension and the fear of death.

    The Frigid Times - http://www.frigidtimes.blogspot.com/
    Civil Defense Reborn - http://cdreborn.blogspot.com/
    Believe what you will, but the Russian nuclear threat is far from dead. It ain't even sick. - Brutus

  25. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melodi View Post
    Scottish MP (SNP Party) calls for a new referendum on Scottish Independence
    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-49557734
    Third times a charm on the plus side if Scotland leave the Union it would seriously diminish the Left wing in Parliament

  26. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melodi View Post
    Corben calls for a new referendum or an election..
    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-49557734
    Corbyn calls Johnson unelected , calls for an election but refuses a General Election

  27. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Marthanoir View Post
    Corbyn calls Johnson unelected , calls for an election but refuses a General Election
    Yep, I just tried to explain this to Nightwolf.... kind of trying to explain the unexplainable.

    I did think Kenneth Clark (Conservative MP since 1970 and unseated last night) taking Boris to the woodshed was kind of fun, he did end up sounded up like the adult in the living room - he also repeated he is a BREXITIR and has been since the start, he just didn't want a no-deal crash out.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  28. #108
    BBC reporting 100,000 voter registrations in the last 24 hours.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-49557734
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  29. #109
    just how hard can it be to make a placard 'BREXIT (in name only)' so you can get back to business as usual. There there little voters see? we gave you brexit just like u asked for. Now how 'bout a pint and what's on the telly?

    Is there that much entertainment in pretending they will ever get a 'real' brexit. You can 'join' but you can't ever leave.... ;-)

  30. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Melodi View Post
    Yep, I just tried to explain this to Nightwolf.... kind of trying to explain the unexplainable.

    I did think Kenneth Clark (Conservative MP since 1970 and unseated last night) taking Boris to the woodshed was kind of fun, he did end up sounded up like the adult in the living room - he also repeated he is a BREXITIR and has been since the start, he just didn't want a no-deal crash out.
    Kenneth Clark has had THREE YEARS of Teresa May-led political opportunity to get his ducks in a line with regards to a fine-tuned exit deal, but did nothing, as far as I can tell - and is only NOW complaining that he has always been pro-BREXIT, but the politicos of UK should delay BREXIT further, to see if they can fine tune this whole exit affair.

    IF Mr. Clark is truly pro-BREXIT, then he should also CLEARLY see the (cursive?) writing on the wall, and not waste one more moment in supporting the immediate political exit from the communist grip of the EU - who has been judged, and found wanting . . .

    Talk is cheap - except, when it is not.

    Mr. Clark is blowing smoke, sez me.


    intothegoodnight
    "Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

    — Dylan Thomas, "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night"

  31. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by intothatgoodnight View Post
    Kenneth Clark has had THREE YEARS of Teresa May-led political opportunity to get his ducks in a line with regards to a fine-tuned exit deal, but did nothing, as far as I can tell - and is only NOW complaining that he has always been pro-BREXIT, but the politicos of UK should delay BREXIT further, to see if we can fine tune this whole exit affair.

    IF Mr. Clark is truly pro-BREXIT, then he should also CLEARLY see the (cursive?) writing on the wall, and not waste one more moment in supporting the immediate political exit from the communist grip of the EU - who has been found wanting . . .

    Talk is cheap - except, when it is not.

    Mr. Clark is blowing smoke, sez me.


    intothegoodnight
    True, but he still did a very good job of sounding like the only adult in the room, BoJo was acting like a bullying child and Corbyn like a raving lunatic (in my opinion and I'm not a Brit nor used to legislators screaming at each other).

    On the other hand, Boris got in a quite a number of witty remarks over the last 24 hours - my favorite so far was telling the leader of the Scottish National Party that, "Scotland wants to leave the UK and get rid of the pound and replace it with a new currency calling it, oh I don' t know, the Salmon or something ."

    I nearly lost a keyboard as I imagined a coin with two leaping fish on it...

    There were others but that was my favorite, I am trying to be even in my reporting on this, but it is more complicated than it looks on the surface.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  32. #112
    https://www.apnews.com/2353eeacd65f49749e23a16766602647


    Brexit breathes life back into Scottish independence push
    By JOHN LEICESTER
    today


    STIRLING, Scotland (AP) — When Scotland voted in 2014 against independence, that seemed to settle the issue: The hauntingly rugged region where Britain’s royal family spends its holidays at its vast Balmoral estate would remain with England, Wales and Northern Ireland in a United Kingdom governed from London.

    Full Coverage: Brexit
    But less than two years later came the Brexit referendum, and while the U.K. voted to leave the European Union, Scots distinguished themselves as the biggest dissenters. Not only did Scotland vote overwhelmingly to stay in the EU, it was the only one of the U.K.’s four parts where not a single constituency delivered a “Yes” vote to leave.

    Simply put: Scotland is being dragged largely unwillingly toward what many of its people fear will be economic suffering on Oct. 31, when the messy divorce is scheduled to take effect, quite possibly without an agreement to cushion expected blows to businesses and households.

    (AP Video)
    Disgruntlement with Brexit and machinations in Westminster that have pushed the U.K. ever closer to a no-deal departure is so keenly felt in Scotland’s glens and weather-beaten towns that independence is back as an issue. In the aftermath of Brexit, Scotland could again become a headache for whoever is in power in London.

    Rather than be shackled to what they suspect could become a diminished and isolated U.K., advocates of Scottish independence are clamoring for another referendum to allow it to strike out on its own and perhaps even rejoin the EU.

    Even some of those who voted against independence, betting that Scotland would be better off in the U.K., are having second thoughts.

    Chris Deerin, director of the Reform Scotland think-tank, was a firm “No” in 2014, describing the idea of a breakup of the union with Britain as “utterly bizarre” and “almost unthinkable” in his political commentaries at the time.

    As Brexit looms, Deerin’s tune is changing.

    I’m not at the stage where I’d say I’d vote ‘Yes’ yet, but it’s definitely not unthinkable,” he says. “And, anecdotally, there are lots of people I know who also voted ‘No’ in 2014 who, if not now committed to voting ‘Yes,’ are open to a discussion.”

    He adds: “If Scotland is independent in 2025, 2030, I think Brexit will pretty obviously be the main reason for that. ... It has set Scotland against England.”

    But Scots wanting a second shot at independence won’t automatically get one. The U.K. government has repeatedly ruled out the possibility, saying Scots had their say and that a second vote could heap further division on the country already riven by generational, regional, political and economic divides over Brexit.

    British Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s hardball negotiating tactics since he took office in July, replacing Theresa May after she failed to get Parliament’s backing for her Brexit deal with the EU, suggest to some Scots that he’s especially unlikely to yield.

    Johnson has taken steps to suspend Parliament for part of the remaining weeks before the Oct. 31 departure, shrinking options and time for lawmakers who want to stop a chaotic no-deal departure. Johnson’s critics have likened him to a dictator and his maneuverings to a coup.

    “Are you a democrat or not? Do you respect the will of the Scottish people or not” said Ian Blackford, a lawmaker with the pro-EU Scottish National Party, addressing Johnson as the U.K. Parliament reconvened Tuesday in London.

    “The Scottish people did not vote for Brexit. The people of Scotland did not vote for a no-deal Brexit. They did not vote for the Tory party and they certainly did not vote for this prime minister,” Blackford added during the raucous debate.

    Such charges resonate among independence supporters north of the seamless, open border with England noticeable only because of road signs that declare “Welcome to Scotland” in English and “Failte gu Alba” in Scottish Gaelic.

    Edinburgh-based actor Gilchrist Muir says he’s always felt Scottish rather than British and has long viewed the U.K.’s Union Jack flag as “a symbol of oppression.”

    For one of his more regular acting jobs, Muir dresses up in chain mail and leather as Sir William Wallace, recounting to tourists how the 13th century Scottish independence hero defeated English invaders in the 1297 Battle of Stirling Bridge. Wallace was later executed in London in 1305 — hanged, disemboweled and beheaded as a traitor to England’s King Edward I.

    Mel Gibson played Wallace in the 1995 movie “Braveheart.” Posing for tourists’ photos with his long sword, Muir borrows Gibson’s signature cry from the film, howling: “Freedom!”

    But out of costume, chatting in an Edinburgh pub over a beer, he’s deeply pessimistic about any shift in Westminster’s stance.

    “It’s like I’m a passenger in a car that’s out of control, and the driver’s left, and you have no say over where the car’s going. That’s what it feels like right now. The Parliament has been hijacked. We have no say. Scotland has no voice,” he says. “In any other normal democratic country or context, I would think yes, there’s a good chance of getting some sort of movement in that direction, but in the current state of affairs, even if it was the will of the people, I don’t have much faith.”

    But others are gearing up for a renewed push, cheered by polling that suggests Brexit, and especially a no-deal departure, may be strengthening the independence cause. The resignation in August of Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson, who cited family reasons, deprived the anti-independence camp of one of its most popular leaders.

    Scottish flags, with a white cross on a blue background, hang inside and outside the distillery where Dale McQueen brews gin. Scottish leader Nicola Sturgeon, who champions calls for a second independence referendum by 2021, opened his new factory this year in Callander, with spectacular views of surrounding crags.

    McQueen says he hopes to be able to plow profits from his fast-growing business into a second referendum campaign.

    “I’m very optimistic that Scotland will be an independent country,” he says. “I hope and pray for that. I think it (Brexit) has been helpful to the independent cause, simply because we’re having something imposed on the country. We didn’t vote for it.”

    _____

    Associated Press reporter Danica Kirka in London contributed to this report.

  33. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Olson View Post
    It's a shame that Brits are so emasculated that they cannot make themselves rise up in righteous wrath and drag these globalists out into the street and beat them to death.
    That could be said about the people here in the states.
    "When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law." ~ Frederic Bastiilt

    "Duty is ours; results are God's."

  34. #114

  35. #115
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    The Scots would be smart to sit back and wait to see which way the wind blows. If the UK DOES end up leaving EU, the EU may be greatly diminished, while the UK thrives.

  36. #116
    They are voting on an election at the moment, the would need 2/3rd vote for an election to go forward it probably won't pass this evening - there are other ways an election can (and probably will) happen eventually.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  37. #117
    The "yes" vote was for an election but there was no 2/3rds majority so the election does not go forward tonight.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  38. #118
    zerohedge
    ‏ @zerohedge
    38s38 seconds ago

    *U.K. PARLIAMENT REJECTS JOHNSON CALL FOR EARLY ELECTION

    Now what

  39. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melodi View Post
    The "yes" vote was for an election but there was no 2/3rds majority so the election does not go forward tonight.
    Yep 298 For , 56 Against but no 2 thirds

  40. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Olson View Post
    It's a shame that Brits are so emasculated that they cannot make themselves rise up in righteous wrath and drag these globalists out into the street and beat them to death.
    The Brits got hooked on Socialism in 1945, the older generation who knew free enterprise and independence is dying off.

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