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BRKG BREXIT - UPDATE, Brit speaker of the House holds private talks with EU, bypassing Johnson, post 403
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  1. #401
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Give northern Ireland to the EU and tell them to **** off.

    My use of pronouns will offend faggots, the mentally ill, and the gender confused.

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Melodi View Post
    Now this NEW proposal by the EU would keep ALL of Ireland (including the North) in the EU system (as a sort of special trade zone as I've suggested a dozen times) for a few years but with Northern Ireland getting an automatic right to vote to say in 2025 to see if they would prefer to stay with the EU Trading system (and have the border in the Irish Sea) or remove themselves from the rest of Ireland and stay with the UK (and perhaps causing a new border).
    What makes you believe that cutting a trade deal with the EU is possible, without some significant concessions on the part of the Irelands? For instance, what if the EU wishes to continue to dilute the Irish Christian culture with MANY MORE Muslim immigrants as their bargaining position for EU trade deals?

    Is THAT acceptable?

    If so, why?

    The EU will likely play extreme hardball with any deals made with the Irelands.

    "Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

    — Dylan Thomas, "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night"

  3. #403

    Foreign collusion!’ Fury as John Bercow holds Brexit talks with new EU president

    JOHN Bercow has sparked outrage after it has emerged the meddling Speaker of the House of Commons has bypassed Prime Minister Boris Johnson and British Parliament to negotiate with the EU on Brexit for the United Kingdom.
    15:07, Wed, Oct 9, 2019 | UPDATED: 15:59, Wed, Oct 9, 2019

    Brexit Party chair Richard Tice took to Twitter in a furious rampage against the Speaker of the Commons, arguing the Tory MP has no authority to act on behalf of Mr Johnson. Mr Tice, referring to David Sassoli, said: “Here in Brussels new President Sassoli admits in chamber that he has bypassed the UK PM and Govt and is now in direct discussions with Bercow about Brexit negotiations. He refused to take my urgent question on what authority they had to have these discussions.” It has also been claimed an option Mr Sassoli has agreed with Mr Bercow is a second EU referendum, sparking fury among Brexiteers.

    When asked if the claim was true, Mr Tice said: “Yes I am in chamber, we Brexit Party MEPs nearly fell off our chairs, gobsmacked.”

    The news sent shockwaves across social media, with others following suit to condemn the decision to completely bypass the British political system altogether.

    Fellow Brexit Party MEP David Bull said: “It’s absolutely outrageous.”

    Mr Sassoli gave his own statement on the matter.

    He said: “This morning I had a fruitful discussion with Speaker Bercow.

    “Speaker Bercow and I were very much on the same wavelength regarding the importance of the roles of our respective parliaments in managing Brexit.”

    BREAKING: here in Brussels new President Sassoli admits in chamber that he has bypassed the UK PM and Govt and is now in direct discussions with Bercow about Brexit negotiations. He refused to take my urgent question on what authority they had to have these discussions.

    — Richard Tice (@TiceRichard) October 9, 2019
    His followers accused Mr Bercow of “treason and collusion”.

    The Bruges Group added: “John Bercow has no authority to negotiate on behalf of the United Kingdom.

    “None whatsoever. Reports that he has been involved in discussions with Juncker over an extension are extremely serious.”

    Nigel Farage also expressed his rage.

    He told his 1.43million followers: “Here in Brussels, new Europarl President David Sassoli confirms a meeting with John Bercow in which they agreed to work to prevent a clean break Brexit.

    What right does the Speaker have to do this? Disgraceful!”

    The shocking news comes after Mr Bercow, who is supposed to be impartial, mocked Brexiteers who have accused him of Remain bias, saying it is “bad form to blame the referee”.

    Mr Bercow is repeatedly accused of failing to act impartially as the Speaker.

    He has long been a thorn in the side of Brexiteers and has on many occasions intervened to hinder his own party.

    But in a bid to defend himself, he told CNN: “If you are performing badly or you are losing the match, it’s quite bad form to blame the referee.

    “I wouldn’t say I’m a Remainer enabler. I would say that I’m an enabler of all colleagues across the House who want to express their different points of view.

    “I thought the Brexiteers were in favour of taking back control of Parliament being in the driving seat? Well, they can’t have it both ways.”

    Mr Bercow said some of the criticism levelled at MPs was “low grade and vulgar”.

    He said: “The idea as a whole that parliament should be rubbished and denounced as though it’s a nuisance and a fly to be swotted is utterly wrong and some of the abuse directed at parliamentarians in recent months has been low grade and vulgar to the extreme.

    “I am entirely unmoved by some of the more downmarket attacks on parliament which have been launched in recent times.

    They are unworthy, they don’t amount to a row of beans and I’m not intimidated by them.

    “None of my colleagues is likely to be intimidated by them either.”

    Mr Bercow was close to tears when he reflected on the death of murdered MP Jo Cox.

    He said: “Any death in such awful circumstances is an outrage and a tragedy.

    “Yet this death, in this manner, of this person, our democratically elected colleague Jo Cox is particularly shocking and repugnant.

    “Really, Jo was a great exponent of that principle of political difference, personal amiability. It should be possible for us as democrats for us to disagree agreeably.”


    Tweets are at the link.

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by intothatgoodnight View Post
    What makes you believe that cutting a trade deal with the EU is possible, without some significant concessions on the part of the Irelands? For instance, what if the EU wishes to continue to dilute the Irish Christian culture with MANY MORE Muslim immigrants as their bargaining position for EU trade deals?

    Is THAT acceptable?

    If so, why?

    The EU will likely play extreme hardball with any deals made with the Irelands.

    Actually, Ireland has already agreed to do that. And you're right, the people are waking up to the problem with that. There was an anti-immigration march a few weeks ago. I have no idea what the sentiment is in Northern Ireland.

    Probably the best solution would be for the North and the Republic to unite. But I would suspect that eventually the Protestant population of the north would eventually emigrate to other places. If the elites want immigration so bad, surely they would take their own back.

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Plain Jane View Post
    If the elites want immigration so bad, surely they would take their own back.
    The elites don't want immigration for its own sake. They want weaponized immigration to weaken national allegiances. Re-importing people like they already have does nothing to further that end.
    Better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.

  6. #406

    NEWSOCTOBER 9, 2019 / 5:27 PM / UPDATED 13 HOURS AGO
    UK's Labour to back November 26 election if Brexit not delivered in October: Sun
    1 MIN READ

    LONDON (Reuters) - Britain’s opposition Labour Party will back a general election on Nov. 26 if Prime Minister Boris Johnson fails in his bid to deliver Brexit by the end of this month, the Sun newspaper said on Wednesday, without citing any sources.

    Labour will agree to dissolve parliament and go to the polls if Johnson proposes a vote to do so on Oct. 21, the Sun said.

    Reporting by Maria Ponnezhath; writing by Andy Bruce; Editing by Sandra Maler

    Our Standards:The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.

  7. #407

    NEWSOCTOBER 9, 2019 / 5:27 PM / UPDATED 13 HOURS AGO
    UK's Labour to back November 26 election if Brexit not delivered in October: Sun
    1 MIN READ

    LONDON (Reuters) - Britain’s opposition Labour Party will back a general election on Nov. 26 if Prime Minister Boris Johnson fails in his bid to deliver Brexit by the end of this month, the Sun newspaper said on Wednesday, without citing any sources.

    Labour will agree to dissolve parliament and go to the polls if Johnson proposes a vote to do so on Oct. 21, the Sun said.

    Reporting by Maria Ponnezhath; writing by Andy Bruce; Editing by Sandra Maler

    Our Standards:The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.

  8. #408

    Getting lettuce into Britain: Spanish farmers baulk at no-deal Brexit
    Sonya Dowsett
    5 MIN READ

    MADRID (Reuters) - At this time of year, Juan Colomina is preparing for the start of the harvest of thousands of tonnes of fruit and vegetables grown under plastic in southern Spain and exported to the world.

    This year he has an added complication - trying to work out which forms are needed to get crops of fresh produce like lettuce and tomatoes through French and British customs in the event that Britain leaves the European Union without a withdrawal agreement.

    “Our peak season starts now,” said Colomina, head of Coexphal, an association representing more than 9,000 farmers in Almeria, southern Spain, who send dozens of trucks daily to Britain laden with everything from broccoli to watermelons.

    “We don’t know exactly what kind of documentation we’ll need until we know what kind of Brexit will happen,” he added.

    With just three weeks before Britain is due to leave the world’s biggest trading bloc, it is still unclear on what terms it will leave or indeed whether it will become the first sovereign state to depart the European project. It’s a big unknown causing headaches in farms across Spain, Britain’s biggest foreign supplier of fruit and vegetables.

    Britain’s putative Oct. 31 exit date from the EU comes at the height of Spain’s export season when the end of the British summer heralds imported tomatoes and lettuce grown in huge industrial greenhouses in the year-round Mediterranean sun.

    Growers and exporters will have to prepare paperwork to present at borders to smooth the passage of trucks and prevent delays that could turn perishable loads to garbage.

    “I can’t believe administrations will be so blundering as to say it’s all change from one day to the next because no-one is prepared,” said Francisco Sanchez, manager of growers’ association Onubafruit which represents over 1,000 farmers.

    Nearly a third of Onubafruit’s production - mostly strawberries, raspberries and blueberries - is exported to Britain, selling to supermarket groups like market leader Tesco (TSCO.L) and No. 2 Sainsbury’s (SBRY.L).

    Both growers and supermarkets fear a change in status of Britain overnight from EU member to default terms of the World Trade Organization (WTO) could lead to huge queues at French ports with delays and millions of euros in losses.


    The EU accounted for nearly two-thirds of Britain’s imports of fruit and vegetables last year, according to the Office of National Statistics. Spain was the biggest foreign supplier of fresh produce, followed by the Netherlands. In turn, Britain is an important market for Spanish produce - its third biggest - with fruit and vegetable exports worth nearly two billion euros ($2.2 billion) last year.

    If Britain leaves without a deal, trucks carrying produce from the trading bloc will have to have present customs, sanitary and quality control documents, Spain’s Acting Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, Luis Planas, told Reuters.

    Spain had done its preparation, he said, by setting up a process to present documents electronically and working alongside France which tested out its ‘smart’ border to speed entry into Britain last month.

    “Our exporters want to sell,” the minister said.

    However, many producers do not have these documents and processes in place, exporters and producers say.

    Many do not want to invest in software needed to present the documents electronically in case the no-deal scenario does not happen, said Jose Maria Pozancos, director of Fepex, the Spanish association of producers and exporters of fruit and vegetables.

    Growers say they speak daily to British supermarkets, but are receiving no guidance from them as to what to expect.

    The British government has said that in the event of a no-deal Brexit, its priority is to keep goods moving and avoid delays at the border without compromising security.

    It has indicated it would minimize checks or simply waive through lorries from EU countries.

    “The answer to all these questions is ‘it depends’ because nobody knows what the specifics will be,” said Dave Lewis, chief executive of British supermarket chain Tesco.

    Tesco was working closely with producers, Lewis told Reuters.

    Sainsbury’s declined to comment on specifics. However, it has repeatedly warned of the consequences of a no-deal Brexit.

    “There will be an impact if there is a hard-edged Brexit on suppliers of certain types of short-life fresh foods, not least things like lettuces, citrus fruits, soft fruits and those kind of things which come from southern Europe at this time of year,” Chief Executive Mike Coupe said.

    Reporting By Sonya Dowsett; Additional reporting by James Davey in London, Editing by Angus MacSwan
    London, Editing by Angus MacSwan

    Our Standards:The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.

  9. #409
    Join Date
    May 2001
    In CLE again
    I sense a coming "Fruitful Discussion" between Mr. Bercow and a whole HOST of MEPs quite soon, though not soon enough for the Bring Your Own Fruit to still be RIPE, though, because by then it will be most CERTAINLY be"RIPE"!!

  10. #410
    Join Date
    May 2004
    N. Minnesota

    Boris Johnson and Leo Varadkar say they 'see pathway' to Brexit deal

    Lisa O'Carroll and Rowena Mason
    Thu 10 Oct 2019 12.30 EDT
    First published on Thu 10 Oct 2019 10.45 EDT

    Boris Johnson and Leo Varadkar have agreed they can see a “pathway to a possible Brexit deal”, while acknowledging there are still challenges ahead if an agreement is to be struck at next week’s EU summit.

    The British prime minister hosted his Irish counterpart for a private meeting at a country house in Wirral in the north-west of England, with both describing the talks as a “detailed and constructive discussion”.

    A statement said: “Both continue to believe that a deal is in everybody’s interest. They agreed that they could see a pathway to a possible deal.

    “Their discussion concentrated on the challenges of customs and consent. They also discussed the potential to strengthen bilateral relations, including on Northern Ireland.”

    Afterwards, Varadkar told reporters: “I think it is possible to come to an agreement to have a treaty agreed to allow the UK to leave the EU in an orderly fashion and to have that done by the end of October.”

    He added that it was “very positive and very promising … I am now absolutely convinced that both Ireland and the UK want there to be an agreement that’s in the interests of Ireland and the UK, and the EU as a whole.”

    Varadkar said he believed the outline of a deal would be possible in time for the crunch summit of EU leaders next Thursday, although “there was many a slip between cup and lip” and challenges remained ahead.

    He added that he hoped the outcome of Thursday’s talks would be sufficient to allow negotiations to resume.

    “I do see a pathway towards an agreement in the coming weeks. There are, of course, issues yet to be fully resolved: the first is the issue of consent and democracy, ensuring that any long-term arrangement that applies to Northern Ireland has the consent of the people of Northern Ireland; the second is the whole issue of customs, ensuring that there is no customs border between the north and the south; and also we had a good discussion looking forward to how relationships might look after Brexit, how we can strengthen co-operation north and south economically and politically, and also between Britain and Ireland,” he said.

    The meeting lasted three hours, significantly longer than expected, with sufficient movement on both sides to allow the leaders to agree that there was now a basis for substantive negotiations.

    There was no further detail on how the two sides could reach a compromise, but it will revive Johnson’s hopes for a deal at next week’s EU summit.

    The key stumbling blocks to a deal for Ireland have been Johnson’s proposal to take Northern Ireland out of the EU customs union on Brexit day, and his plan to give the defunct Stormont assembly the final say on whether the region should also stay aligned to EU rules on goods and agrifood.

    Earlier this week, Varadkar said he thought it would be “very difficult” to secure an agreement by the time EU leaders meet next Thursday, but all efforts were focused on doing so because the stakes were so high.

    The taoiseach also said the UK had “repudiated” the previous deal negotiated with Theresa May’s government to ensure no hard border re-emerged on the island of Ireland because of Brexit. The British had “sort of put half of that now back on the table, and are saying that’s a concession. And of course it isn’t really.”

  11. #411

    Brexit warning: How Ireland was urged against 'trouble ahead with EU big boys'

    LEO VARADKAR met Boris Johnson today in a last-ditch attempt to resolve EU-UK backstop conflicts, but an unearthed comment piece by Daniel McConnell warned that, after the Brexit referendum, Ireland risked being "increasingly isolated within the EU.
    15:08, Thu, Oct 10, 2019 | UPDATED: 19:59, Thu, Oct 10, 2019

    Westminster and Dublin – along with the rest of the EU – have been stuck in Brexit negotiations ever since Parliament repeatedly voted down Theresa May’s Brexit deal. Many Brexiteers protested against the inclusion of Mrs May’s so-called ‘backstop’ – a temporary measure which would mean there were no border posts, physical barriers or checks on people or goods crossing over the Irish border. While the EU negotiators and Mr Varadkar argue this is the only way to maintain peace between the two nations, Mr Johnson’s supporters believe this would go against the very point of Brexit, arguing that Northern Ireland would effectively still be part of the EU, involved in its customs union and single market.

    Unionists also believe this would cause Northern Ireland to be separated from the rest of the UK.

    Mr Varadkar has argued against this and instead sided with the EU. He claimed that a deal must be reached, as a no deal Brexit would cause “severe disruption” and not necessarily mean the end of the Brexit process.

    He has been accused of “playing happy families with EU”, being the “euro-spaniel”, and being anti-Brexit.

    However, in a 2016 Irish Examiner article published days after the UK voted to leave the EU, political commentator Daniel McConnell argued Ireland was actually being “isolated” by the trading bloc it saw as one of its greatest allies.

    Mr McConnell said: “In a Europe that has become increasingly a club for the big boys, Ireland’s fate is now far less certain than before.

    “As the old saying goes, there may be trouble ahead.”

    The commentator used several examples to demonstrate his point, beginning with Ireland’s relationship to the EU in 2008.

    He added: “The big boys wanted Ireland contained by way of a Troika programme and we got eaten alive.”

    The Troika scheme – otherwise known as the Bailout programme – was supposed to help Ireland with it finances, and was signed under the Taoiseach Brian Cowen in 2010.

    It was a three-year scheme which imposed austerity on society to reduce government expenditure. Ireland left in 2013, but “it did more damage to public confidence in our relationship with Europe than anything else".

    He then referred to Europe’s refusal to “stand with Ireland” on September 29, 2008, when the crisis first began, so “Ireland had to act by itself” but with “one arm tied behind its back”.

    After promising Europe that no European bank would fail, Ireland had to pay €440billion of taxpayers’ money to keep its banks alive.

    Many think – including Fianna Fail’s Dara Calleary – the EU walked away from Ireland when the member state was struggling with the financial crisis.

    He said the day after the Brexit referendum: “I firmly believe the European institutions walked away from us in our time of need."

    Mr Calleary added the bloc “rammed home an austerity programme which did not stand for anything in terms of cuts” and that was “wrong and removed from the principles of the European Union”.

    He also said: “We have to look into our own hearts and ask if there was a referendum on our membership of the European Union in the morning, how it would go. We cannot give a guarantee as we used to.”

    Mr McConnell continued: “Calleary’s points are justifiable in the context of Europe moving to become more than the original trading union envisaged in the wake of World War 2. A fully integrated political and financial union is not a concept that many Irish people are fully comfortable with.”

    He then referred to how Ireland initially rejected the Lisbon Treaty and the Nice Treaty.

    Mr Calleary was the junior finance minister under Brian Cowen and during the financial crash of 2008.

    As commentator Mr McConnell explained: “Calleary saw first-hand how rough the treatment from the great and good in Europe can be.”

    In comparison, the political expert said Mr Varadkar’s party Fine Gael is known for being pro-European: “Most in Fine Gael have for decades signed up to a near-blind loyalty to the European project, sometimes bordering on devotion.’

    Mr Varadkar has so far rejected several of Mr Johnson’s suggestions. Most recently, the Prime Minister had a new proposal which was dubbed “two borders, for four years”, where Northern Ireland would be able to choose between staying with the EU’s single market rules or a hard border with Ireland in a vote every four years.

    Mr Varadkar claimed this appears to create “two borders” in the North.

    He said: “What’s being put on the table by Prime Minister Johnson is not supported by businesses in Northern Ireland, by civil society and is only supported by one political party.”

    Mr Johnson and Mr Varadkar agreed they were on a "pathway" to a deal after their meeting today in the Wirral.

  12. #412
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    What in HELL was Bercow thinking?! Dear Lord, these globalists have had their very stinky cheese fall off their damn crackers!
    Your levity is good, it relieves tension and the fear of death.

    The Frigid Times -
    Civil Defense Reborn -
    Believe what you will, but the Russian nuclear threat is far from dead. It ain't even sick. - Brutus

  13. #413
    Join Date
    May 2004
    N. Minnesota

    EU27 gives green light for Brexit talks to move to key 'tunnel' phase

    Daniel Boffey in Brussels
    Fri 11 Oct 2019 07.35 EDT
    First published on Fri 11 Oct 2019 04.08 ED

    Major boost for Boris Johnson as Michel Barnier secures EU agreement to accelerate negotiations

    Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, has secured the agreement of the EU27 to open intensive “tunnel” negotiations on Boris Johnson’s latest proposals in a major boost for the British government.

    Sources said ambassadors representing the EU member states had given the “green light” to accelerated negotiations, in the hope of agreeing terms by next Thursday’s summit.

    The details of Johnson’s latest suggestion to the EU are yet to emerge. The development came shortly after Donald Tusk revealed that he had set the prime minister an ultimatum of presenting new Brexit proposals by Friday or “no more chances”, but said “positive signals” were now emerging.

    The European council president cautiously welcomed developments in Wirral on Wednesday when the British prime minister and his Irish counterpart, Leo Varadkar, concluded talks by saying they could see a “pathway” to an agreement.

    Tusk said, however, that “time was practically up” and there was “no guarantee” of success.

    “Prime Minister Johnson promised the EU to come forward with a solution that would work for all,” he said. “A solution that would not only satisfy the hardcore Brexiters but also solve our well-known and legitimate objectives: to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland, to protect the Good Friday agreement, and ensure the integrity of the single market.

    “Unfortunately we are still in a situation in which the UK has not come forward with a workable realistic proposal.”

    Tusk said he told Johnson a week ago that “if there were no such proposals by today I would announce publicly that there are no more chances – because of objective reasons – for a deal for the incoming European council””.

    “However, yesterday, when the Irish taoiseach and the UK prime minister met they both saw for the first time a pathway to a deal. I have received promising signals from the taoiseach that a deal is still possible.”

    He said technical talks were taking place in Brussels on Friday.

    “Of course, there is no guarantee of success and the time is practically up, but even the slightest chance must be used. A no-deal Brexit will never be the choice of the EU.”

    Tusk was speaking as a meeting in Brussels between Barnier and the UK Brexit secretary, Stephen Barclay, came to an end.

    The two men met for almost two and a half hours over a working breakfast in the European commission’s headquarters to discuss the possibility of reopening negotiations based on London’s latest proposals.

    “Be patient,” Barnier told reporters as he left the meeting. “Brexit is like climbing a mountain. We need vigilance, determination and patience.”

    A spokeswoman for the European commission said Barnier would debrief ambassadors and MEPs on the European parliament’s Brexit steering group. She said: “Michel Barnier had a constructive meeting this morning with Steve Barclay. It was a constructive meeting, and on that basis you can assume they have exchanged ideas and they discussed many different angles.”

    The British government is keen to open “tunnel” negotiations with the commission on the detail of a deal.

    If Barnier agreed with Varadkar that the substance of the meeting with Johnson was “sufficient to allow negotiations to resume in Brussels” it would be a major boost for the UK government.

    The key sticking points are two-fold: Downing Street’s insistence until now that there will be a customs border on the island of Ireland, and the mechanism for gaining democratic consent for Northern Ireland’s continued alignment with the EU’s single market in goods.

    Dublin has insisted it will not accept the extra checks and controls that would result from there being two customs territories. The UK’s proposals for consent are viewed as giving the Democratic Unionist party a unilateral veto over Northern Ireland’s alignment with the EU’s rules.

    After the discussions between Varadkar and Johnson in a hotel in Wirral, a joint statement suggested the two leaders could “see a pathway to a possible deal”.

    Hopes of securing a deal for sign-off by EU leaders at a summit next week had appeared all but dead until Wednesday, with talks between UK and EU officials stalled.

    The education secretary, Gavin Williamson, said on Friday the cabinet had been briefed on the Johnson-Varadkar meeting, but would not say what concessions may have prompted the surprise optimism.

    “I had a very nice briefing this morning which was very much appreciated … It does not benefit anyone to have a running commentary on live negotiations,” he told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.

    Johnson’s proposals for the Irish border after Brexit had been roundly criticised by Barnier, who played down any optimism during his address on Wednesday to the European parliament. “We’re not really in a position where we’re able to find an agreement,” he said.

    EU officials have expressed scepticism about the sudden outbreak of optimism.

    After Barnier’s meeting with Barclay, he will brief ambassadors of the EU27.

    Should talks resume in earnest in Brussels, a meeting on Sunday between the French president, Emmanuel Macron, and the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, is seen as a second staging post to delivering a deal for EU leaders to agree on on Thursday.

  14. #414
    This is the schedule of meetings to be held until October 31st. I would guess that this schedule is subject to change.

    Countdown to divorce: Meetings that will decide Brexit
    3 MIN READ

    LONDON (Reuters) - The following events will determine whether Britain exits the European Union as planned on Oct. 31 or the three-year-old Brexit saga takes another twist.

    Oct. 13 - German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Emmanuel Macron meet at the Elysee Palace to prepare for upcoming summits where Brexit will top the agenda. If the EU is to make a breakthrough concession on the terms of Britain’s exit from the bloc, it will require the blessing of the bloc’s two most influential members.

    Oct 13-14 - The 27 EU ambassadors are briefed by EU chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier after a weekend of intensive, so-called “tunnel” talks with Britain.

    Oct. 14 – British parliament reconvenes, setting the stage for further attempts by lawmakers to ensure the Oct. 31 deadline for withdrawal is extended, regardless of Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s promise that the UK will leave on that date, deal or no deal. Johnson’s legislative agenda will be set out by the British monarch in the traditional Queen’s Speech.

    French President Macron meets European Council chief Donald Tusk in Paris to discuss issues including Brexit.

    Oct. 15 - European affairs ministers from the EU27 discuss the state of play of Brexit with an update from Barnier to prepare the leaders’ summit of Oct. 17-18.

    Oct. 16 - France and Germany hold their annual summit. It is an opportunity for ministers from both countries to discuss a range of bilateral issues, but Brexit will be sure to figure prominently in these discussions.

    Oct. 17-18 - EU government leaders meet in Brussels for a European Council summit. If a Brexit agreement is struck, it will have to be approved by the British parliament.

    The summit agenda also includes the bloc’s next long-term budget from 2021, its troubled relationship with Turkey, the EU membership prospects of Albania and North Macedonia, as well as ambitious climate policies.

    Oct. 19 – The British parliament will hold a special Saturday sitting to decide what to do - or to vote on a deal.

    If the stalemate is not broken at this point, a law recently passed by the parliament dictates that London must ask the EU to extend the Oct. 31 deadline to Jan. 31 – a period in which a national election may be held to try to break the Brexit deadlock.

    If parliament approves a deal, then it will rush to approve additional legislation needed for Brexit to take place in an orderly way.

    The last time parliament sat on a Saturday was in 1982 after Argentina invaded the Falkland Islands in the South Atlantic.

    Opponents of Brexit will march through central London to demand another referendum.

    Late October – EU diplomats and officials expect an extraordinary summit of EU leaders before Oct. 31. If there is no deadline extension and no agreed divorce, they will use such a summit to make final preparations for a rocky, no-deal split.

    Oct 31 – Unless this deadline is extended, Britain will cease to be an EU member at 2300 GMT.

    Writing by Mark Bendeich and Guy Faulconbridge; Editing by Mark Heinrich

    Our Standards:The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.

  15. #415
    I think that Leo told Boris that his choices boil down to either a special northern Ireland trade zone of to spend billions policing a renewed civil war and militarized border.

    I bet he also showed Boris the classified and unclassified reports on the sudden rise in bomb factories being found on both sides of the border as well as renewed recruitment by paramilitaries on Both Sides.

    The issues of IREXIT are somewhat related but unlikely to occur right now for reasons I will not try to explain on a tablet.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  16. #416
    The Queen's Speech is tomorrow.

    Johnson to set out post-Brexit law and order drive in Queen's Speech
    3 MIN READ

    LONDON (Reuters) - Queen Elizabeth will on Monday announce several new pieces of legislation to reform Britain’s justice system, in a ceremonial speech setting out Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s post-Brexit plans.

    The so-called Queen’s Speech is the highlight of a day of elaborate pageantry in Westminster and is used to detail all the bills the government wants to enact in the coming year. It is written for the 93-year old monarch by the government.

    But, with Brexit unresolved, and any plans beyond even the next seven days likely subject to an unpredictable election, rival parties said Johnson was misusing the politically-neutral Queen for political gain.

    The speech will lay out 22 new bills - pieces of proposed legislation - including several covering tougher treatment for foreign criminals and sex offenders, and new protection for victims of domestic abuse.

    Keeping people safe is the most important role of any government, and as the party of law and order it is the Conservatives who are cracking down on crime and better protecting society,” a statement from Johnson’s office setting out some details of the speech said.

    It will almost certainly include a section on a law to enact a Brexit deal. But, while any deal is still in the balance, new details are unlikely. The speech will also touch on election campaign issues like the health service and living standards.

    "Having the Queen’s Speech and the State Opening of Parliament tomorrow is ludicrous, utterly ludicrous,” Corbyn said in a Sky News interview broadcast on Sunday. “What we’ve got in effect is a party political broadcast from the steps of the throne.”

    The Queen delivers the speech from a throne in parliament’s gilded House of Lords debating chamber.

    The speech is subject to several days of debate, concluding with votes to approve it. While not an official vote of confidence, these could be used to further destabilise Johnson’s minority government.

    The Queen’s Speech is already surrounded by controversy.

    In September, Johnson tried to suspend parliament for about five weeks before the speech, only to be told by the Supreme Court the move was unlawful after opponents said he was trying to shut down debate on Brexit.

    Johnson was accused of dragging the Queen into the Brexit crisis by asking her to suspend the legislature for longer than usual.

    Having been forced back to parliament by the court ruling last month, Johnson has maintained he needed a Queen’s Speech to allow him to set out his plans for government - even while trying, and failing, to call an early election.

    Reporting by William James; Editing by Edmund Blair

    Our Standards:The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.

  17. #417
    Join Date
    May 2004
    N. Minnesota
    So....I MUST be missing something obvious here...or....???

    1-) Today (Oct. 14th) is the big "Queen's Speech" day and Parliament comes back in session. By their choice and plan, I'm assuming since they were backed up by the courts and the prorogation was tossed.

    2-) Boris Johnson's original prorogation of Parliament that caused such a stink and cry, multiple court cases, etc. planned to get Parliament back on Oct. 14th IIRC.

    Ummm...much ado about nothing? Same result...except for the interlude of screaming and spitting. W.T.H.
    I get precedent...but otherwise.....they seemingly didn't care about getting back to work any sooner.

  18. #418
    I think this describes where things are for now. DUP feels that they have made enough concessions but I guess Boris wants more.

    Brexit LIVE: Boris warned of ‘difficult times ahead’ – DUP won't back fresh concessions
    BORIS JOHNSON has been dealt a massive blow after the DUP said they will not support a Brexit deal if he makes more concessions to the European Union to get it over the line this week.
    07:23, Tue, Oct 15, 2019 | UPDATED: 21:27, Tue, Oct 15, 2019

    A DUP source told HuffPost UK Boris Johnson has been keeping the party informed of Brexit negotiations “all the way” since a breakthrough in talks with Irish counterpart Leo Varadkar last week. The party believes the European Union and Ireland of using Mr Johnson’s flexibility as “a chance to push for more”. But the DUP source warned it will not go any further than the concessions the Prime Minister made in that meeting around a customs partnership for Northern Ireland and Stormont consent for border arrangements, which removed previous plans for an effective DUP veto.

    They told HuffPost UK: “It would seem that we are notified all the way through, but I just don’t see us going beyond the move that we made and the PM put forward last week.

    “The problem is that the EU and Republic of Ireland see it as a chance to push for more.

    “We will not be going more or giving more.

    “Difficult times ahead.”

    DUP leader Arlene Foster and the party’s Westminster leader Nigel Dodds met with Mr Johnson for 90 minutes on Monday, and will be updated on further progress later this evening.

    Ahead of the meeting on Tuesday night, Ms Foster continued to warn Northern Ireland cannot stay in the EU customs union.

    She told BBC Northern Ireland: "We want to get a deal but it has to be a deal that respects the economic and constitutional integrity of the United Kingdom and that means all of the United Kingdom, Northern Ireland included.

    "I think it's very important that we say that we must remain within the United Kingdom customs union, it's a principle that has always been there and a principle that will forever be there. We have to be entirely within the United Kingdom."

    "What we have to see is flexibility from the European Union, just as we have shown flexibility around the single market regulations.

    “People have to get real and have to understand that we are part of the United Kingdom, will remain part of the United Kingdom and there has to be respect for that."

    9.27pm update: DUP warns following Johnson talks - ‘Gaps remain and further work is required’

    The Northern Irish party supporting the minority Government has warned Boris Johnson further work is needed on his Brexit deal because gaps still remain over what they are willing to agree to.

    The Prime Minister will need the DUP’s support if he is to get any deal struck with the EU through a vote in Parliament.

    The party’s leader Arlene Foster and deputy Nigel Dodds met Mr Johnson for talks at 10 downing Street this evening.

    But in a statement, the DUP said: "We respect the fact negotiations are ongoing therefore cannot give a detailed commentary but it would be fair to

    indicate gaps remain and further work is required.”


    More timeline at the link.

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by Plain Jane View Post
    I think this describes where things are for now. DUP feels that they have made enough concessions but I guess Boris wants more. ...

    BORIS JOHNSON has been dealt a massive blow after the DUP said they will not support a Brexit deal if he makes more concessions to the European Union to get it over the line this week.
    I look forward to Melodi's input, but my impression is that Boris doesn't want concessions, rather he wants to APPEAR to be defeated in a call for concessions so he can wrap up the no-deal Brexit while seeming to be forced into it.
    Better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.

  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by bw View Post
    I look forward to Melodi's input, but my impression is that Boris doesn't want concessions, rather he wants to APPEAR to be defeated in a call for concessions so he can wrap up the no-deal Brexit while seeming to be forced into it.
    You are probably right. That's why I hesitate to post articles because I don't know what position is posturing or where things actually are.

  21. #421

    The Latest: Varadkar says issues remain over Brexit
    10 minutes ago

    BRUSSELS (AP) — The Latest on Britain’s plans to leave the European Union (all times local):

    12:25 p.m.

    As Brexit negotiations continue, Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar says there is a pathway to a deal “but there are many issues that still need to be resolved.”

    Varadkar, who spoke by phone Wednesday morning to British Prime Minister Boris Johnson and the European Commission, says he hopes the issues can be resolved in the course of the day.

    That would allow European Union leaders to consider them at a two-day summit starting Thursday in Brussels, which would clear the way for a vote by British lawmakers at a special sitting of Parliament scheduled for Saturday.

    However, Varadkar says that even if that does not happen, the Oct. 31 deadline for the UK to leave the EU “is still a few weeks away and there is a possibility of another summit before that if we need one.”


    12:20 p.m.

    Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay has told a parliamentary committee that the British government plans to comply with the law as it enters a delicate phase in the Brexit process.

    Barclay told the Exiting the European Union Committee Wednesday that the government headed by Prime Minister Boris Johnson will comply with “undertakings given to the court in respect of the law.”

    He was apparently referring to the government’s commitment in a Scottish court to follow a law requiring Johnson to seek a Brexit extension from the European Union if no agreement is approved by Saturday.

    Barclay maintained, however, that the government is still committed to leaving the EU by Oct. 31.

    He did not explain how this would be possible given the law’s intent to prevent a “no-deal” Brexit.


    10 a.m.

    The British government says talks with the European Union are making progress, despite the lack of a breakthrough overnight.

    Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s office says talks are resuming Wednesday after a “constructive” session that lasted late into the night in Brussels.

    Johnson is eager to strike a deal at an EU summit starting Thursday so the U.K. can leave the bloc in good order on the scheduled date of Oct. 31.

    But both sides say gaps remain over plans for maintaining an open Irish border.

    Even if there is a deal, it must be passed by Britain’s Parliament, which rejected — three times — the agreement struck by Johnson’s predecessor, Theresa May.

    Pro-Brexit Conservative lawmaker David Davis said Wednesday that success rests on the stance of Northern Ireland’s Democratic Unionist Party, the ally of Johnson’s Conservative government. He said that “if the DUP says ‘this is intolerable to us’ that will be quite important.”

    7:10 a.m.

    European Union and British negotiators have failed to get a breakthrough in the Brexit talks during a frantic all-night session and will continue seeking a compromise on the eve of Thursday’s crucial EU summit.

    An EU official, who asked not to be identified because the negotiations were still ongoing, says “discussions continued until late in the night and will continue today.”

    Both sides were hoping that after more than three years of false starts and sudden reversals, a clean divorce deal for Britain leaving the bloc might be sketched out within the coming hours.

    Thursday’s EU leaders’ summit comes just two weeks before the U.K’s scheduled departure date of Oct. 31.

  22. #422
    OK, my first test post with the new laptop "yeah" (now if I can only get Google to send the verification codes to my phone so I can get e-mail) anyway here's my 2 cents which at the moment is simply "High Octane Speculation" to coin a phrase from another website.

    I have a hunch, as I stated before, that Boris got an eye opening from his Irish counterpart this past week and/or he was already starting to figure things out on his own.

    I gather from what other commentators in the UK have said, he's always had some interest in Northern Ireland (unlike May who hardly thought about the place) but his information had been mostly from a "Unionist" viewpoint; I also am not certain just how well he really processed The Troubles, what a miracle the Good Friday Accords really managed and how tearing that to pieces is a really-really bad idea.

    So bad, that England in reality might be better off even losing Northern Ireland rather than losing Trillions on a military re-occupation, re-militarized border (the New Improved Well Marinated Incarnation of the IRA has already threatened to use such posts as "targets") not to mention hundreds if not thousands of soldiers and police they don't have.

    His own Northern Irish police chief telling him flat out that he won't be able to process the border at all beyond basic police duties we will need 4,000 more trained officers to that and we have several hundred (there were about 4,000 there at the end of the Troubles).

    It is also looking more and more today that Boris really does want a deal of some sort, perhaps again having realized that "no-deal" isn't really about "no-deals" but rather having to waste years doing individual "deals" on nearly every product, service or issue that comes up - possibly twice given the Northern Irish issues.

    The problem is he has to provide something that will pass his minority government plus others and they simply may not be really possible.

    There are also that hilarious but true idea of "the Known Unknowns and the Unknown Unknowns" aka there are probably OTHER things going on behind the scenes that could be anything from a banking/financial issue(s) that hasn't been made public to serious intelligence complications or other stuff that are making this nightmare even worse.

    BoJo has today said he WILL ask for that extension if he has to (a real turn around) because I think he's also realized that he's not going to be able to dump all the blame for this on Arlene Foster the DUP (Unionist Party that upheld his government) even though she is so easy to blame (she just has that sort of personality).

    That's why I think even she has seemed to "give a little but not enough" because she isn't willing to be the total target either and as I say, the Brits are going to blame him if things go completely into chaos for a few months/years, a lot more than they will blame her.

    Forcing the Queen's Speech where even the Queen looked bored and probably felt a bit used - a Queen's Speech is supposed to be the NEW government putting their agenda on the table that in theory they have the votes to pass. Instead a minority government pretty much had the Queen read their election manifesto, which didn't seem to go down very well with anyone including the British public.

    Meanwhile the EU is simply not going to let Northern Ireland have two different sets of customs at the same time, not unless it is totally an internal UK thing or something (it is complicated but boils down to this).

    The EU wants Northern Ireland either IN the UK custom's Union or if that can't work then Out with a hard border no one really wants.

    Boris seems to be trying to find ways to re-word things so that "both" options look like they are happening at the same time (sort of like everyone can currently pretend they either live in a United Ireland or a United Kingdom depending on their background, that ends if the UK leaves the EU).

    Sadly for him this is not the Oxford Debating team where a skill with words determines the outcome, it may help but there are times when putting lipstick on a pig, still makes it a pig.

    Final thoughts: I have no idea what is going to happen, it looks to me that most people including Diane Foster would like some sort of "deal" but that is proving difficult and that Boris has moved his position to being willing to ask for an extension.

    He's probably going to excuse his change of mind on the negotiations that are on-going and "almost" but "not quite" there yet.

    OK going to go try and install more software on this thing.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  23. #423
    Join Date
    May 2004
    N. Minnesota
    Jeepers. I'm watching the news stories as they come out, but too am hesitant to post anything, because they are all over the place as far as content.
    Guess that's what happens when the involved parties are deep in negotiations and playing "the game". At least all seem to be finally taking the issues seriously instead of keeping their head in the sand hoping it will all go away. Just have to be patient. wait and see mode, but still gut instinct says it's gonna be a break on the 31st, one way or the other.

  24. #424
    Weeellll, this is where we are this evening.....?

    Brexit deal at hand in Brussels, Johnson struggles to win support at home
    Gabriela Baczynska, Alan Charlish
    6 MIN READ

    BRUSSELS/WARSAW (Reuters) - Britain and the European Union were on the verge of a last-minute Brexit deal on Wednesday but Prime Minister Boris Johnson still has work to do at home to ensure his government and factious parliament approve the plan.

    "The basic foundations of this agreement are ready and theoretically we could accept a deal tomorrow,” said European Council President Donald Tusk, who will chair a summit of EU leaders, including Johnson, on Thursday and Friday.

    However, Tusk said in comments broadcast by Polish broadcaster TVN 24 that “certain doubts have appeared from the British side”, a reference to Johnson’s need to win over politicians who fear he may have conceded too much.

    French President Emmanuel Macron said an agreement was being finalised and hoped it could be approved on Thursday.

    “I want to believe an agreement is being finalised and that we will be able to endorse it tomorrow,” Macron said at a news conference with German Chancellor Angela Merkel in Toulouse.

    Merkel said she believed slightly more that a deal was possible.

    Any approval by the EU of a deal at their summit would be conditional on the British House of Commons backing it at a special sitting on Saturday. A short delay of Britain’s Oct. 31 departure date would follow to polish the detail.

    If Johnson fails to nail down the terms of Britain’s exit from the European Union, or fails to get a deal ratified in the UK house, he will almost certainly have to seek a longer extension of the departure date more than three years after the country voted in a referendum to leave.

    After another day of technical talks in Brussels, EU officials said an agreement had been reached on customs arrangements for Northern Ireland, ‘level playing field’ provisions on labor and environment standards that the EU has insisted on to ensure fair competition under a new trade deal after Brexit.

    That also went for the consent by the Northern Irish assembly renewable every four years to go on aligning the province’s regulations with the EU ones after Brexit.

    VAT was the only outstanding element, EU sources said, and a UK government source expected no further movement on Wednesday toward finalizing the deal. The person said that there were issues holding up the deal both at home and with the EU.

    While differences over the divorce between the world’s fifth-largest economy and its biggest trading bloc had almost all been resolved, “overall backing from the British government” was still needed to seal an agreement, an EU diplomat said.

    The main stumbling block remaining for Johnson appeared to be objections from a small Northern Ireland political party whose votes he must secure to get any deal through parliament.

    The sticking point in the long-running talks with Brussels over Brexit, which has already been delayed twice, was the border between EU member Ireland and the British province of Northern Ireland.

    The conundrum for London was how to prevent the frontier becoming a backdoor into the EU’s single market without erecting controls which could undermine the 1998 peace agreement that ended decades of conflict in the province.

    It eventually proposed that Northern Ireland remain in the UK customs area. However, tariffs would apply on goods crossing from mainland Britain to Northern Ireland if they were deemed to be headed further, to Ireland and the bloc’s single market.

    To get a deal that hinges on this through parliament, where he does not have a majority, Johnson will likely need backing from the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP), which says maintaining the United Kingdom’s economic integrity is sacrosanct.

    Slideshow (4 Images)
    Pro-Brexit lawmakers from Johnson’s governing Conservative Party say they will only back a deal if it has gained the support of the DUP, which fears Northern Ireland could be left behind in the EU’s orbit when Britain leaves.

    A central figure in the 2016 referendum who came to power as leader of the Conservative Party in July, Johnson has pledged to take Britain out of the EU on Oct. 31 with or without a deal.

    But parliament has passed a law saying Britain cannot leave without one, and Johnson has not explained how he can get around that.


    Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar said earlier on Wednesday that if an agreement cannot be reached before the summit, there was still time left to act before the Oct. 31 deadline.

    “October 31 is still a few weeks away and there is the possibility of an additional summit before that if we need one ... Although time is running short, I am confident that (Ireland’s) objectives can be met,” he said.

    Sterling was on a roller coaster ride through the day as varying reports suggested a deal was nigh or pointed to last-minute hurdles.

    Britain’s Brexit minister, Steve Barclay, said he would not accept a delay beyond Oct. 31, even if it was only used to tie up the necessary legal requirements of an agreement. Extension options mulled by the EU range from an additional month to half a year or more.

    If necessary, the bloc may hold an emergency summit later in October to either approve a deal, grant an extension or make final preparations for a chaotic split.

    Additional reporting by Elizabeth Piper in London, Padraic Halpin in Dublin, Philip Blenkinsop, Marine Strauss, Bart Biesemans, Jorrit Donner-Wittkopf and Jonas Ekblom in Brussels, Andreas Rinke in Toulouse, Michel Rose and Dominique Vidalon in Paris, Thomas Escritt in Berlin, Writing by John Chalmers, Editing by Giles Elgood

    Our Standards:The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.

  25. #425
    From other articles I read this evening, it is still basically a case of The EU demands that either Northern Ireland stays in the EU Customs and trade rules (basically an EU free trade zone) or there has to be a hard border on the Island (which no one really wants).

    Arlene Foster at first looked like she could cope with the "new wording/same old idea" but has now backed away from that and is saying she can't accept the first option.

    How the people of Northern Ireland feel seems to be leaning more towards the free trade zone but it isn't universal and getting everyone "on board" with this idea won't be easy.

    Watch and wait..
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  26. Quote Originally Posted by WalknTrot View Post
    Jeepers. I'm watching the news stories as they come out, but too am hesitant to post anything, because they are all over the place as far as content.
    Guess that's what happens when the involved parties are deep in negotiations and playing "the game". At least all seem to be finally taking the issues seriously instead of keeping their head in the sand hoping it will all go away. Just have to be patient. wait and see mode, but still gut instinct says it's gonna be a break on the 31st, one way or the other.
    UK can take northern Ireland, and the U.S. will annex the Republic of Ireland as a protected territory within the U.S. sphere, like Guam and Puerto Rico, or some such.


    "Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

    — Dylan Thomas, "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night"

  27. #427
    Join Date
    May 2004
    BNO News
    ‏Verified account @BNONews
    8m8 minutes ago

    BREAKING: British Prime Minister Boris Johnson and EU leaders say a new Brexit deal has been reached
    Nana to two "little bits", one not-so-little "little bit" and one 6' college bound "little bit"

  28. #428
    Join Date
    May 2004
    double post
    Nana to two "little bits", one not-so-little "little bit" and one 6' college bound "little bit"

  29. #429
    And the "winner" is (I put this in quotes because the DUP just "rejected" the deal, but then it may pass without their votes we shall see)
    A free trade agreement is the choice made by Boris Johnson and his government, says
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  30. #430
    Here's what I found, there is a series of ongoing updates at the link so this is obviously not the last word.

    Brexit LIVE: Walk AWAY Boris! Farage to ignite Brexit election alliance at 'disaster' deal

    NIGEL FARAGE has hit out at Boris Johnson's "disaster" deal but the Brexit Party leader said there is an opportunity for a "Brexit alliance" between the Tories and the Brexit Party that "would win a big majority in Parliament".
    07:00, Thu, Oct 17, 2019 | UPDATED: 11:29, Thu, Oct 17, 2019

    Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage has hit out at Boris Johnson's "dreadful deal" and said he doesn't think that the newly agreed deal will pass the Commons on Saturday. Speaking to Sky News, Mr Farage said that if the Withdrawal Agreement failed, then "there is a possibility of putting together a Leave alliance for the next general election". He said: "I think there is an opportunity here for a Brexit alliance to fight the election that would win a big majority in Parliament."

    It comes after the Prime Minister and European Commission President announced that a new deal had been struck.

    Mr Johnson tweeted: "We’ve got a great new deal that takes back control — now Parliament should get Brexit done on Saturday so we can move on to other priorities like the cost of living, the NHS, violent crime and our environment #GetBrexitDone #TakeBackControl"

    But the DUP have said they will not back the proposals.

    11.22am update: Bookies predict deal will not pass Parliament

    The latest odds from William Hill suggest that Boris Johnson’s deal will fail to make it through Parliament this weekend.

    They are offering 1/3 it does not go through and 9/4 that it does.

    William Hill spokesman Rupert Adams said: “The odds suggest that Boris Johnson’s deal is doomed to failure."

    11.09am update: Jeremy Corbyn has said the deal is 'worse than Theresa May's'

    Jeremy Corbyn has announced that Labour will back a second referendum on what he calls "an even worse deal than Theresa May's".

    Labour will not be backing the deal in Parliament.

    11.03am update: Northern Ireland to remain in customs union 'forever'

    Government source has told Sky's Beth Rigby that the new Brexit deal will leave Northern Ireland in the Customs territory "forever".

    The new deal is also believed to have abolished the backstop, leaving Northern Ireland in charge of the laws and will have the right to end the special arrangement.

    10.43am update: DUP reject Brexit deal

    The DUP have said they do not back Boris Johnson's new Brexit deal.

    This means it will be very difficult for the proposals to pass through Parliament.

    10.37am update: Juncker says 'fair and balanced agreement' has been reached

    European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker has said a Brexit deal has been reached.

    He said a "fair and balanced agreement for EU and UK" has been agreed.

    Mr Juncker tweeted: Where there is a will, there is a #deal - we have one! It’s a fair and balanced agreement for the EU and the UK and it is testament to our commitment to find solutions. I recommend that #EUCO endorses this deal."

    Plain Jane here- something just flashed on my screen about the backstop being gone?

  31. #431
    The Backstop is gone in name only because the "new deal" does not use those terms, also the deal varies slightly from the backstop idea in that there will be some variations of how things are handled in Northern Ireland than they are in the Republic in terms of UK VAT refunds, etc.

    That said, I do think it is highly likely that a very angry, unhappy and dysfunctional parliament with an astounding minority government (minus 45 MPs or something) may very well lose the "new" deal.

    Boris knows this perfectly well but now he can go into an election saying "I tried, ya'll be screwed up ya hear" only in the Oxford English translation.

    Meanwhile, he is "forced" to ask for an extension (and he probably will) then he calls an election which this time will be very hard for Jeremy Corbin to stop.

    The Queen (or her advisors upon consultation) may be advised to simply remove Mr. Johnson at that point which she can technically do, especially if he loses a no-confidence vote which is highly likely.

    That doesn't mean she will, it means she could do so.

    Things are getting so crazy that silly stunts like "rebel" MPs (or most of Parliament) holding "sessions" in a rented hall or the London Museum auditorium would not surprise me, especially if there is another "lockout" of the sort Boris tried to pull the last time.

    But I suspect we shall see the EU and the UK (or Boris) go "through the motions" at least until Saturday when all bets are off until we see which way the MP's vote and/or boycott the vote on this "new" deal.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  32. #432
    Talk about a "deal" that is likely dead on arrival...

    Sky News

    "It doesn't meet our demands and expectations."

    says Labour is 'unhappy' with
    's deal and 'as it stands' the party will vote against it.

    Follow live #Brexit deal updates here:
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  33. #433
    I realize that things are a big jumble right now but I am simply in mood to celebrate!


    And Plain Jane might not flounder so much.

  34. #434
    Quote Originally Posted by Plain Jane View Post
    I realize that things are a big jumble right now but I am simply in mood to celebrate!


    And Plain Jane might not flounder so much.
    You don't flounder you do great and remember my opinions and observations are just my own and/or something from the papers etc (and I try to mention when that is the case).

    Marthanoir also has some great observations but I don't think he's lived here quite as long as I have - I only experienced about three years of The Troubles plus a pervious Summer living in Cambridge UK when the IRA bombings were still a threat (the Manchester bombing was around that time period that took out part of a shopping mall).

    I wouldn't feel nearly so strongly if I hadn't had friends and been traveling a lot in the North during that period and for some time afterward to see the amazing changes.

    That and our rural area for some reason is one that tends to get targeted by paramilitaries (and thugs) who want to build bombs and other weapons to be taken to Northern Ireland which makes this somewhat of a local problem as well.

    I think the reason is we are pretty far from the border (at least three hours on the back roads) and policing has been severely cut in the rural areas since 2008; so it is very hard to find a "bomb factory" or other "enterprises" used to "fund operations" (mostly done by gangs) unless someone notices something or is reported.

    Nearly to the old border, there is a much higher concentration of inspections of rural barns and warehouses because the police on both sides expect to find it there.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  35. #435
    Join Date
    May 2004
    N. Minnesota
    I haven't delved into the latest reporting/reactions yet this morning, but seems to me, if Parliament votes this deal down on Saturday, the likelihood of the EU granting an extension are nearly nil. Crash-out on the 31st.

  36. #436
    I am now very glad we got that extra bread flour - can you say on-coming train wreck boys and girls?....

    'Now is the moment to get Brexit DONE': Boris Johnson hails new deal that ditches hated Irish backstop as Jean-Claude Juncker says EU will NOT offer a delay beyond Halloween if MPs reject

    Boris Johnson and Jean-Claude Juncker confirm the UK and EU HAVE agreed Brexit deal

    MPs face a moment of truth on Brexit after Jean-Claude Juncker said the EU will not offer an extension beyond Halloween if the Commons torpedoes Boris Johnson's new deal.

    The commission president turned up the heat on critics of the PM's newly-sealed plan by indicating they will have a stark choice between this package - or No Deal.

    The dramatic intervention came as Mr Johnson insisted 'now is the moment to get Brexit done' after he signed off the blueprint, which deletes the hated Irish backstop. The premier has taken an extraordinary gamble by signing off the agreement despite fierce opposition from the DUP - who publicly spelled out a laundry list of objections and accused him of risking the break-up of the UK.

    The bold move tees up a massive showdown in the House of Commons on Saturday, with Mr Johnson hoping EU leaders will help him at a Brussels summit tonight by declaring that it is this package or No Deal on October 31. Mr Juncker hinted that could be the outcome when he told reporters there will be no 'prolongation'.

    Asked if he believed Parliament would approve the deal, he said: 'I hope it will, I'm convinced it will. It has to. 'Anyway there will be no prolongation. 'We have concluded a deal and so there is not an argument for further delay - it has to be done now.' Pictured at the summit today are Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay, Boris Johnson, Jean Claude Juncker and Michel Barnier.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  37. #437
    Join Date
    May 2004
    N. Minnesota
    Yup. Pretty much cemented everybody's stance. Boris kinda has both sides by the nuts. If Parliament votes down the deal, blame them. If the EU fails to grant an extension, blame them, too. It isn't over 'til it's over, but so far...well played by Mr. Johnson. High drama for sure.

    The next big question? Who will get elected as PM and majority to work the problem(s) after a hard Brexit?

  38. #438
    New IRA spokesman confirms terror group will treat any border posts set up after Brexit as legitimate targets

    Terrorists warned they would take 'armed actions' against border infrastructure
    Spokesman said: ‘Regardless of a soft or so called hard border - that’s irrelevant'

    ‘We're talking about an illegal occupation that means IRA reserve right to attack'

    PUBLISHED: 02:15, 17 October 2019 | UPDATED: 08:31, 17 October 2019

    Any border checks between Northern Ireland and the Republic after Brexit will be legitimate targets for attack, the IRA claimed yesterday.

    The Republican terrorists warned they would take 'armed actions' against border infrastructure and anyone manning it.

    A masked spokesman for the New IRA told Channel 4 News: 'We are the IRA, as reconstituted in 2012. There is only one such organisation. I have been mandated by the Army Council of the IRA to speak on its behalf.'[yeah right - Melodi]

    The Republican terrorists warned they would take 'armed actions' against border infrastructure and anyone manning it.

    He was speaking on behalf of what has become the most violent and active Republican dissident group in Northern Ireland.[now that part I belive]

    The New IRA have been responsible for a number of attacks in recent months, including a car bomb detonated at the courthouse in Londonderry and the shooting of journalist Lyra McKee during a riot.

    He was interviewed on condition the his identity would be disguised and his voice would not be recorded.

    Asked about the possibility of Brexit creating a 'hard' border with new infrastructure such as checkpoints either on the frontier or anywhere in Ireland north or south, the New IRA said: 'First of all there is no such thing as an Irish border. It's a British border. Since its formation, since its inception the purpose of the IRA has been to take action against all such infrastructure of British occupation.'

    Asked to spell that out, he continued: 'The IRA is an army. And as an army we are committed to armed struggle for political and social change in Ireland.

    A masked spokesman for the New IRA said: 'We are the IRA, as reconstituted in 2012. There is only one such organisation. I have been mandated by the Army Council of the IRA to speak on its behalf.'

    'Bearing in mind any installation or aspects of British occupation within the Six Counties - be it at the border or elsewhere - any infrastructure would be a legitimate target for attack and armed actions against those infrastructures and against the people who are manning them.'

    Pressed about it, he said: 'It's important to understand that this is a country under occupation by Britain and as in any colonial situation the people have the right there to respond by all means necessary to that occupation.'

    The spokesman was then pushed on whether any Brexit deal would be acceptable to armed Irish Republicanism.

    Who are the New IRA?
    The New IRA is the biggest of the dissident republican groups operating in Northern Ireland.

    It has been linked with four murders, including PC Ronan Kerr, who was killed by an under-car bomb in Omagh in 2011.

    The group is also linked to the deaths of prison officers David Black, who was shot as he drove to work at Maghaberry Prison in 2012, and Adrian Ismay, who died in 2016 after a bomb exploded under his van outside his home in east Belfast.

    The New IRA is believed to have been formed between 2011 and 2012 following the merger of a number of smaller groups, including the Real IRA - the group behind the 1998 Omagh bomb.

    It is strongest in Derry, north and west Belfast, Strabane in Co Derry, Lurgan in Co Armagh, and pockets of Tyrone.

    This year the group was responsible for a car bomb outside the courthouse in Bishop Street, Derry.

    The explosives-laden car was left on the city centre street on a Saturday night in January, and scores of people, including a group of teenagers, had walked past before it detonated.

    The New IRA also claimed a number of package bombs posted to targets in London and Glasgow in March.

    But he said: 'Regardless of the form of occupation, whatever kind of border there is, be it soft or so called hard border - that's irrelevant. We are talking about an illegal occupation here that means the IRA reserved the right to attack those who are upholding that illegal occupation along the border and elsewhere and the illegal partition that goes with it. And those who are upholding that.

    'The EU and the British and the 26 country administration constantly speak about the border as if it s been there two minutes and its only an issue with Brexit. There's been a border since 1921. It's been resisted. It is being resisted. It will be resisted regardless of any deal formed around it.'

    The spokesman was then asked repeatedly about why the IRA was continuing with armed violence years after a peace process was overwhelmingly endorsed by the people of the island of Ireland north and south.

    He answered: 'First off, the Good Friday Agreement is dead. It was superseded by various other agreements such as the Leeds Castle, St Andrews, Hillsborough deals and others. So the Good Friday Agreement is defunct.'

    'Secondly the Good Friday Agreement was not ratified by the Irish people as a unit, as a whole, but by two separate questions depending on which statelet they lived in.'

    The New IRA member was quizzed on why the group persist with armed violence, with negligible support, a political irrelevance and on the wrong side of history.

    Yet he replied: 'On the contrary we are not the wrong side of history . No colony has ever secured its freedom without armed resistance. We have more support than the Conservative Party, but they lord it over us. We also have more support in Ireland than the Labour Party does.'

    Pressed again that this comparison is wrong because the Irish people support and vote for Irish parties north and south, he said: 'Well this is the mainland of Ireland. The IRA is confident that it has popular support for its goal of a 32 County Irish Republic. The political parties you reference are silent about the armed activities of the state. For instance the 25 million pound HQ for MI5 at Palace Barracks.'

    'There are 700 MI5 operatives in Belfast City alone. Every PSNI officer is armed with a Glock pistol or a Heckler and Koch rifle. Contrary to popular belief there are still thousands of British soldiers operating in the six countries. And there are also armed pro-British death squads operating under the flag of Loyalism.'

    'So therefore the IRA will take no lectures on morality, or the futility of violence from those who remain morally in favour, if not tactically.'

    What is the timeline of the Northern Ireland troubles and peace process?
    August 1969:

    British Government first send troops into Northern Ireland to restore order after three days of rioting in Catholic Londonderry

    30 January 1972:

    On 'Bloody Sunday' 13 civilians are shot dead by the British Army during a civil rights march in Londonderry

    March 1972

    The Stormont Government is dissolved and direct rule imposed by London


    The IRA begin its bloody campaign of bombings and assassinations in Britain

    April 1981

    Bobby Sands, a republicans on hunger strike in the Maze prison, is elected to Parliament. He dies a month later

    October 1984

    An IRA bomb explodes at the Grand Hotel in Brighton, where Margaret Thatcher is staying during the Tory Party conference

    Early 1990s:

    Margaret Thatcher and then Sir John Major set up a secret back channel with the IRA to start peace talks. The communications was so secret most ministers did not know about it.

    April 1998

    Tony Blair helps to broker the Good Friday Agreement, which is hailed as the end of the Troubles.

    It establishes the Northern Ireland Assembly with David Trimble as its first minister.


    With some exceptions the peace process holds and republican and loyalist paramilitaries decommission their weapons

    May 2011

    The Queen and Prince Philip make a state visit to Ireland, the first since the 1911 tour by George V.

    In a hugely symbolic moment, the Queen is pictured shaking hands with Martin McGuinness - a former IRA leader.

    The fatal shooting on journalist Lyra McKee was another talking point.

    She was while watching rioting in the Creggan district of Londonderry earlier this year.

    He was asked: 'Will you say sorry?'

    He replied: 'Absolutely. We listened to calls from the Republican base at the time, including but not exclusively Saoradh ((editors' note this is the legal political organisation close to the group known as the New IRA), who rightly called for the IRA to take responsibility for the tragic loss of Lyra McKee's life and to apologise.

    'As we stated at the time, the loss of any civilian life in the conflict is a tragedy and we directly apologised at the time to her partner, her family and her friends and on behalf of the IRA I reiterate that apology now.'

    The interviewer then said Sara Canning, Lyra McKee's partner, described the IRA on camera as paedophiles in the sense that they groomed young and vulnerable people in deprived areas like Creggan.

    The spokesman replied: 'Personally I find that comparison is grotesque. Young people have always been the backbone of the Republican struggle. They bring an energy and a vibrancy to it with their activism. young people are not sought out by the Republican movement. They seek it out.'

    The questioner returned to the point that if the Provisional IRA had failed to gain its objective after more than thirty years of violence, why does the current IRA think it can succeed for one second.

    The masked man said: 'It's important to point out when you speak of the Provisional IRA that you assume some of us had no experience of it. Many of our volunteers had lots of experience of the Provisional IRA top to bottom, from the Executive Council, down to command staff, from brigade staff to the rank and file volunteers.

    'That gives our organisation both a valuable insight now. and the benefit of hindsight as to why the Provisional IRA failed in all of its objectives following the abolition of Stormont in 1972.'

    'Whilst many volunteers have experience of that era, the majority of our volunteers in 2019 have no experience of that, in fact were born after 1998.'

    Finally, asked about where the IRA was going in the near future, the spokesman added: 'Republicanism has always gone through peaks and valleys and at this point we remain heavily organised and to paraphrase a phrase of our enemy we are sophisticated and capable and showing increasing sophistication and ingenuity.

    'But this is a period of consolidation and rebuilding. Rebuilding is important, but it's crucial to realise it doesn't reduce our operational capabilities.'

    Share or comment on this article: New IRA confirms terror group will treat any border posts set up after Brexit as legitimate targets
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  39. #439
    I gather that Parliament votes on Saturday? I can't imagine the drama and screeching till then.

  40. #440
    Quote Originally Posted by Plain Jane View Post
    I gather that Parliament votes on Saturday? I can't imagine the drama and screeching till then.
    Yep, it is in full swing and taking most of the oxygen out of any other news here - it looks like the "deal" is DOA unless something changes and if the EU is serious this time - well I hadn't been planning any trips to Belfast any time soon and we've got flour.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

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