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BRKG BREXIT - UPDATE, Brit speaker of the House holds private talks with EU, bypassing Johnson, post 403
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  1. #1

    BREXIT - UPDATE, Brit speaker of the House holds private talks with EU, bypassing Johnson, post 403

    Mods you can combine this later and update the headline but while I was listening to the debates a prominante Tory Member, "walked" over to join the Liberal Democratic party.

    The governmnent has JUST LOST THEIR MAJORITY!

    You can watch this circus (complete with screaming) at

    https://news.sky.com/watch-live
    Show this thread

    Sky News
    @SkyNews
    ˇ
    8m
    During Boris Johnson's statement former minister Phillip Lee defects from Tories and joins the Liberal Democrats.

    This leaves the government with no working majority in the Commons.

    Follow live as Commons showdown nears: http://po.st/w1CRoT
    Last edited by Melodi; 09-03-2019 at 04:40 PM.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  2. #2
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    But does that mean he will change his position on Brexit?

  3. #3
    Does this force an election?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Plain Jane View Post
    Does this force an election?
    Probably, they still have to take the vote; which may happen tonight - I think he actually has to lose a vote, but he can't "govern" in the British system without a majority, losing certain types of votes (and this is one of them) means a new election or a new government.

    We shall see - and again, this just happened, mods feel free to merge this with the other thread, I just thought it was big enough breaking news that it needed to get out right away.

    It is also somewhat of a surprise move.

    They are all screaming at each other right now, congress is seldom this entertaining...
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  5. #5
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    He is trying to give the people what they wanted and thats get out of the European Union and no special deals or profiteering for special intrests. After all it is Briton if they cannot do this and stand on their own two feet no country can.

  6. #6
    So does this mean they are back to remaining? NODEAL Brexit not allowed, no extensions. No time for a 'new' govt. with confidence... to make a 'deal'

    Remaining seems to be the only 'option'?
    Last edited by SteveReloaded; 09-03-2019 at 11:25 AM. Reason: eta

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveReloaded View Post
    So does this mean they are back to remaining? NODEAL Brexit not allowed, no extensions. No time for a 'new' govt. with confidence... to make a 'deal'

    Remaining seems to be the only 'option'?
    No, it isn't, it probably means there will be an election (probably) and there may be an extension if the Torry party loses and possibly even if they win if the moderates are in charge.

    As it is, you can SKY news for updates (they are fairly moderate) it looks like BoJo has a full-scale rebellion on his hands as a number of Tory MP's are saying they may "cross the line" and "vote with labor" tonight.

    BoJo has said they will be thrown out of the party (aka not allowed to run again) if they do this.

    It looks like that vote is this evening, so we should know more in a few hours.

    NOTHING Is certain and NOTHING is decided except that it is likely BoJo may not be Prime Minister very long and that he (Boris) is determined on a NO DEAL BREXIT, which is a crash out.

    There is a large difference between a NO DEAL BREXIT and NO BREXIT - they are not the same thing.

    But we shall see - at this point it is kind of like watching a train wreck no matter what happens.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  8. #8
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    I still don''t see much changing. I have to doubt that the EU will grant an extension, and that point seems to be forgotten in all the hub-bub.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by WalknTrot View Post
    I still don''t see much changing. I have to doubt that the EU will grant an extension, and that point seems to be forgotten in all the hub-bub.
    Oh, I think they will, but the point I keep trying to get across is there are a lot of people (including MPs) who want BREXIT but not a crash out with nothing decided in terms of customs, the Irish border, shipping, animal quarantines, medications, health insurance, and car insurance regulations, etc, etc, etc...

    That stuff is really boring, which is why it was swept under the rug but people are finally realizing what that means, especially in Northern Ireland/The Republic where a number of towns have a "border" down the middle of Main Street.

    Like I said at this point, I personally kind of want it to be over, so we can move forward however it is going to go.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  10. #10
    Thanks Melodi. I thought the EU had said no extensions so it wasn't up to GB any more. So if BoJo's govt. is replaced then the EU will give another few years extension? Sorry for the dumb questions.
    Last edited by SteveReloaded; 09-03-2019 at 11:42 AM. Reason: spelling

  11. #11

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveReloaded View Post
    Thanks Melodi. I thought the EU had said no extensions so it wasn't up to GB any more. So if BoJo's govt. is replaced then the EU will give another few years extension? Sorry for the dumb questions.
    OK. I will add to the "dumb questions."

    I thought that the EU said that October 31 was the absolute deadline. And, I thought that the people of GB voted for Exit. I thought that the the debate in the government was whether or not it would be NO Deal or some type of Deal when they do Exit. Help!!!!!!

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveReloaded View Post
    Thanks Melodi. I thought the EU had said no extensions so it wasn't up to GB any more. So if BoJo's govt. is replaced then the EU will give another few years extension? Sorry for the dumb questions.
    You know, I have absolutely no idea (and neither does anyone else) the EU says one thing, but since their goal is to prevent the UK leaving and/or only leaving "sort of" (like Norway or Switzerland that are not EU members but abide by most EU regulations for trade reasons).

    I think the EU is also becoming slightly panicked over the Northern Irish "problem," I think they know deep down if they dumped it all on the Irish Republic to deal with - well the EU is mildly popular in the Republic right now but that could change.

    Marth has mentioned some of their heavy-handed, autocratic decisions the EU tried to shove down people's throats that led to the whole BREXIT mess in the first place (and almost had Greece drop out and may yet see Italy and Poland walk).
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  14. #14
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    Haha! I think they are panicking that there will be a no-deal Brexit and lose out on that magic 39 Billion, too.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by TorahTips View Post
    OK. I will add to the "dumb questions."

    I thought that the EU said that October 31 was the absolute deadline. And, I thought that the people of GB voted for Exit. I thought that the the debate in the government was whether or not it would be NO Deal or some type of Deal when they do Exit. Help!!!!!!
    The EU says a lot of things and then changes their minds when they don't get the result they want, the official reason for the MP debate is what you are suggesting; except that a new election could throw everything into an entirely new situation and there are many in labor who want a "do-over" of the whole BREXIT vote.

    They could only manage if that if the won and the MPs were willing to go for it.

    I really don't think we have a direction until we know if a new election will be called or not and/or if Boris will try to force it to be AFTER the BREXIT deadline or not.

    Wheels within wheels...
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melodi View Post
    The EU says a lot of things and then changes their minds when they don't get the result they want, the official reason for the MP debate is what you are suggesting; except that a new election could throw everything into an entirely new situation and there are many in labor who want a "do-over" of the whole BREXIT vote.

    They could only manage if that if the won and the MPs were willing to go for it.

    I really don't think we have a direction until we know if a new election will be called or not and/or if Boris will try to force it to be AFTER the BREXIT deadline or not.

    Wheels within wheels...
    Yup. Still seems to me Johnson has some options, if he wants to play hard-ball. Time is a major factor this late in the game, and every day of diddling around is in his favor.

  17. #17
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    '1776' in England now instead of in America? Now you know why the Englishmen were disarmed and England was packed with 'outsiders'...
    Attached Images
    You say "trigger-happy cowboy" as if it were a bad thing.

    "If they come a'huntin' me; they can consider themselves lucky if they*don't* find me!"

    No surrender; no retreat!

    If we fight, victory is not certain. If we do not fight, defeat surely is.

  18. #18
    Sky News reporting the vote may occur in about 1 hour it is 6pm here...
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  19. #19
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    I thought that I'd read that the English government was shut down now until sometime in October?...
    You say "trigger-happy cowboy" as if it were a bad thing.

    "If they come a'huntin' me; they can consider themselves lucky if they*don't* find me!"

    No surrender; no retreat!

    If we fight, victory is not certain. If we do not fight, defeat surely is.

  20. #20

  21. #21
    Nope, the government doesn't shut down for a few days yet.

    Sky now reporting that provided the "rules guy" allows the vote expect it about 9 pm tonight that is in about 3 hours but no one really knows - their specialist (Sky News interviewing a specialist in Parliamentary rules) the specialist said pretty much things are now in uncharted waters not seen in modern history (if ever).

    So I don't feel so bad about totally confused now - words like "unprecedented" are now being reported as even the other parties don't seem to be sure what their MP's will do (there are a number of parties not just the two major ones).

    While they have issues like all mainstream media, SKY seems to be doing a reasonable job of trying to cover all of this mess and communicating it as well as is possible to do that when no one is really sure what the situation is.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  22. #22
    Link for BBC coverage (but also has other stories) https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-polit...t-developments

    Permission just granted for a discussion of this bill (it could have been denied)

    The debate starts today, go on for up to three hours and if you want to watch this - BBC or Sky are both good places to start.
    Last edited by Melodi; 09-03-2019 at 12:40 PM.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

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    I'm watching live on the Guardian website. Corbyn is sure a piece of work. Hahahaha! Good stuff.

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    The BOTTOM lines in our logo, beneath the bomb, USED to be "Watching the World Tick Away"

    MIGHT be time to go back to that...

    ~~~snicker~~~

    It was so much closer to what we're doing now.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by night driver View Post
    The BOTTOM lines in our logo, beneath the bomb, USED to be "Watching the World Tick Away"

    MIGHT be time to go back to that...

    ~~~snicker~~~

    It was so much closer to what we're doing now.
    My feelings exactly - I feel like I am watching history, not necessarily really good history but history...
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  26. #26
    BBC Politics
    ūVerified account @BBCPolitics
    18m18 minutes ago

    MPs opposed to no-deal #Brexit argue for control of Commons, after Bercow allows emergency debate

    BBC Politics
    ūVerified account @BBCPolitics
    42m42 minutes ago

    Commons Speaker John Bercow grants MPs an emergency debate on whether they can take control of Parliament's agenda tomorrow, the first step in a cross-party effort to block a no-deal #Brexit

  27. #27
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    Shows that the democratically elected MPs are incapable of carrying out the wishes of the people, Corbyn is waiting in the sidelines to unleash Communism in the UK and the tory traitors are to blame. If Corbyn takes over it doesn't matter about whether Britain is a member of the EU or not there will be at best economic collapse. Labour used to be opposed to the EU but now they relish in the totalitarianism of the EU that will prevent any Socialist/Labour measures from being overthrown by Parliament.

    I would like to see Government controlled by referendum on major issues along Swiss lines, this would take power away from MPs.
    Last edited by Richard; 09-03-2019 at 03:26 PM.

  28. #28
    BBC reporting the first vote (to end debate) and vote on the topic should be in about 1/2 hour to 45 minutes from now - it looks like between 15 and 17 Tory MP's have rebelled and will be kicked out of the party probably later this evening or tomorrow.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melodi View Post
    My feelings exactly - I feel like I am watching history, not necessarily really good history but history...
    The OTHER issue is that, as you watch History-In-The-Making, you find out it USUALLY takes a while MORE than it takes to read it. (Excluding, of course, Bruce Catton's Civil War Tomes, which MAY take longer to read than it took to experience)

  30. #30
    BoJo LOSES this vote, BBC Reporting it as breaking news (and no one is sure what happens next)

    Brexit: No-deal opponents defeat government
    4 minutes ago
    Share this with Facebook Share this with Messenger Share this with Twitter Share this with Email Share
    Tory rebels and opposition MPs have defeated the government in the first stage of their attempt to pass a law designed to prevent a no-deal Brexit.

    In a huge blow to Boris Johnson, the Commons voted 328 to 301 to take control of the agenda, meaning they can bring forward a bill seeking to delay the UK's exit date beyond 31 October.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  31. #31
    Sky News
    @SkyNews
    ˇ
    5m
    After MPs back a bid to take over the Commons agenda in order to pass legislation blocking a no-deal Brexit Boris Johnson says "I don't want an election but if MPs vote tomorrow to stop negotiations... then that would be the only way to resolve this" http://po.st/JGr5TE
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  32. #32
    And Farage is swinging into action, if he hasn't already. Is it possible that Boris wanted this all along?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalknTrot View Post
    I still don''t see much changing. I have to doubt that the EU will grant an extension, and that point seems to be forgotten in all the hub-bub.
    I am under the understanding that the EU would need to grant an extension. If they say "no" I believe that it would result (essentially) in a No Deal Exit. In other words, the UK would simply be out.

  34. #34
    Lots of screaming I had to chat with Nightwolf but I gather BoJo just asked for an Election, Labor told them they want to hold tomorrow's vote first.

    The EU has indicated it would grant an extension IF there was an election.

    (they are not quite throwing toys at each other but it is dang close)
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  35. #35
    TT, upon thinking about this further, it is unlikely that the EU really wants the cash cow GB to leave in a 'crash out' 'no deal' way, so they would probably be 'willing' to 'grant' another delay.

  36. #36
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    I've been waiting for Sundance from ConservativeTreeHouse to post an article on this and give us his spidey senses but no article as of yet.

    Think I'll poke him on Twitter.
    My Message to the Fake Stream Media......
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhSy-6VqIww

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Buick Electra View Post
    I've been waiting for Sundance from ConservativeTreeHouse to post an article on this and give us his spidey senses but no article as of yet.

    Think I'll poke him on Twitter.
    The situation is breaking fast, he is probably writing something now I would imagine.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  38. #38
    Some days I think the Brits are actually going to get what they voted for. Other days it seems like it's all for show, and the outcome was decided long ago in favor of the EU.
    Better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.

  39. #39

  40. #40
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    Video at link......



    Nigel Farage
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    I fear that we are rapidly headed towards a very dark place.
    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/sta...97535450640384
    My Message to the Fake Stream Media......
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhSy-6VqIww

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