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WAR Video - Europe's Earliest Battle? - The Mystery of the Tollense Valley // Ancient History Documentary
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  1. #1
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    Video - Europe's Earliest Battle? - The Mystery of the Tollense Valley // Ancient History Documentary

    Previous discussion on this topic at http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showt...light=Tollense
    =================================

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=--yUuR_F_wU
    Europe's Earliest Battle? - The Mystery of the Tollense Valley // Ancient History Documentary
    RT 21:48
    -----------------------

    Photos at the link-

    https://about-history.com/the-firsts...valley-battle/

    Ancient History
    The Firsts Known Battle in European History – Tollense Valley Battle
    March 13, 2019

    The clash in the Bronze Age on the banks of the Tollense River in Mecklenburg – Vorpommern is called a battle in the valley of the river Tollense. This is the first known battle in European history. Radiocarbon analysis showed that the battle took place (approximately) between 1300 and 1200 B.C.

    Excavation History
    In 1996, one of the volunteers involved in the preservation of archaeological sites reported that he had found a human humerus with flint arrowhead stuck in it on the bank of the Tollense during the decline of the river level. In the same year, the first archaeological investigations followed on the site of this find, during which bones of people and animals were discovered. In the years that followed, an ash club, turn hammer-like weapons, bronze tips, remnants of bronze swords, as well as human and horse bones were found.

    Since 2007, this territory has been systematically studied under the leadership of the Office of the State Land for Culture and Monument Protection of Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania, the Lower Saxon State Land Administration for Culture and Monument Protection, and the University of Greifswald. With the help of divers , the bottom of the Tollense River was examined, as a result of which new human skeletons were found. Archaeologists are expanding the search area, starting from the place of the first discovery, exploring peat deposits one meter deep. The history of changes in the valley of the river Tollenze was studied and the place of passage of the former riverbed was determined. The bones found were examined at the University of Rostock.

    Terrain
    The battlefield extends over a hundred meters along the river. In this place, Tollense meanders in a relatively narrow valley with wet meadows. Over the past millennia, the flow of the river has changed slightly. In the Bronze Age, the landscape was more open. Human activity has had little impact on this area.

    In 2013, using geomagnetic studies, traces of the existing 120-meter bridge or dam across the Tollense valley were discovered. The dam was made of trunks of trees and stones more than five centuries before the battle. Parts of the dam were built or rebuilt around the time of the battle. Perhaps the dam has been used to cross the marshy valley for centuries. The cause of the battle could have been an attempt by a tribe to cross the Tollense, which was hindered by another tribe.

    Research results
    Studies have shown that bones discovered by the beginning of 2011 belong to at least 83 individuals. By February 2015, this number was brought to 125, based on the number of femoral bones. For the most part, the bones belonged to young men. The potential death toll in the battle is estimated at 750.
    On some bones, old, already healed wounds were found, which made it possible to assume that warriors participated in the battle, and not farmers who took up arms of necessity.

    Radiocarbon analysis showed that the battle took place (approximately) between 1300 and 1200 B.C.

    More than 40 skulls have been found, some bear marks of wounds. In one of them the bronze arrowhead was stuck. Other tips (both bronze and flint), as well as wooden clubs found in this place, suggest that there was a conflict between two warring groups of people. The total number of combatants could reach up to 4 thousand people. A small part of the fighters were riders, as shown by bones found, belonging to at least four horses. In addition, the position of the arrowhead in the first bone found indicates that in this case the infantryman wounded the rider from the bow. The victims, in all likelihood, were thrown into the river by the victors. Since the bones were not laid in anatomical order, they were apparently demolished in the coastal part of the river, where they were covered with a layer of peat and bottom sediments, which contributed to the preservation of part of the remains.

    Scientists took DNA samples from the teeth of 20 dead. Genetic analysis of DNA has not yet been completed, but it is already clear that most of the soldiers who died at Tollense were of non-native origin. In one part of the dead, the genes show similarities with modern South Europeans, in another with the population of Scandinavia and Poland.

    Studies of isotopes of nitrogen, strontium, oxygen and carbon, conducted by scientists at Aarhus University, showed that the remains belong to two groups of people. Warriors of one group came from another region because they fed on millet, while in the Bronze Age millet was grown mainly in southern Europe, including southern Germany.

    In 2010, a golden spiral ring was found on the bank of the Tollense, then in June 2011, they found a similar ring 2.9 centimeters long and weighing less than ten grams. In August of the same year, four bronze spirals were found nearby, typical bronze jewelry, as well as two other twisted spiral rings made of wire four millimeters thick. Using X-ray structural analysis, the material was identified as tin. These are the oldest tin items found in Germany.

    Sources:
    Thomas Brock: Archäologie des Krieges. Die Schlachtfelder der deutschen Geschichte
    Detlef Jantzen, Ute Brinker, Jörg Orschiedt et al .: A Bronze Age battlefield? Weapons and trauma in the Tollense Valley
    Detlef Jantzen, Thomas Terberger: Gewaltsamer Tod im Tollensetal vor 3200 Jahren
    The wonder of our time isn’t how angry we are at politics and politicians; it’s how little we’ve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  2. #2
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    Fascinating - thank you. One of my (British) Time Team episodes watched this past week had them manufacturing the flat mouth of a long horn, very similar to the ones in the Danish museum in the video.

    The Bavarian/German DNA I inherited from my Dad shows that I matched with DNA from a German site from the "Corded Ware" or Yamnaya people of the Central Europe Eurasian Steppes, who were Bronze Age invaders. The information was that these people began to invade before 4,000 BCE and had culturally and physically replaced the Neolithic Early Farming culture by 2,800 BCE.

    This would seem to match the battle and what was found.
    "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." George Orwell

  3. #3
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    History from that part of the world has always fascinated me. Good article, thank you.
    III

    Keep ignoring my rights and I'll keep ignoring your laws.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dozdoats View Post
    In 2010, a golden spiral ring was found on the bank of the Tollense, then in June 2011, they found a similar ring 2.9 centimeters long and weighing less than ten grams. In August of the same year, four bronze spirals were found nearby, typical bronze jewelry, as well as two other twisted spiral rings made of wire four millimeters thick. Using X-ray structural analysis, the material was identified as tin. These are the oldest tin items found in Germany.
    I was going to suggest that if the battle was in the Bronze Age and fought at least in part with bronze weapons, then the battle could have been about access to tin since some have characterized tin as the Bronze Age's equivalent to oil today. In the above quote the "two other twisted spiral rings made of wire" turned out to be tin and suggests tin was somewhat comparable (at least for purposes of jewelry) to gold and bronze. But the map I have of metal sources in the Bronze age show those sources relatively far away from modern northern Germany. That doesn't mean the battle (note that quite a lot of people were involved for that time and place, especially if they were dedicated warriors and not just farmers drafted for the battle) wasn't about tin since it could still have been about a trade route, but without evidence to support my suggestion I'm thinking probably not.

  5. #5
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    For what it's worth, the traditional date for the Trojan War is about 1200 BC. Iman Wilkens published a book in 1990 called "Where Troy Once Stood" which dramatically speculated that the Trojan War was actually fought in what is today Great Britain and involved cities/tribes from continental Europe. While it sounds crazy and virtually no one in academia believes Wilkens is right, and I'm not saying I believe it myself, nonetheless he does make a good case for it in his book. What makes it interesting to this thread is that Wilkens claims that four cities/tribes from modern-day northern Germany sent 113 ships to the fight (see map below, with the red dot being I think the approximate location of the Tollense Valley). If he is right that would potentially make the battle in the OP a skirmish to the relocated-to-Europe Trojan War or a battle leading up to the Trojan War.

    History is fun!
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanstaafl View Post

    History is fun!
    Indeed it is. I've been reading about the history of Verdun recently, and not the about the "modern" battles there either.

    Wiki (I know, I know)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verdun
    III

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  7. #7
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    I thought I seen this before so I did a TB2K search and yep an article posted by member Dozdoats on 03-25-2016.
    Good history many can read it that have not seen it before.

  8. #8
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    At the very tippy tippy top of the OP-

    Video - Europe's Earliest Battle? - The Mystery of the Tollense Valley // Ancient History Documentary
    Previous discussion on this topic at http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showt...light=Tollense


    I believe in full disclosure (when I can remember to do it).
    The wonder of our time isn’t how angry we are at politics and politicians; it’s how little we’ve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dozdoats View Post
    At the very tippy tippy top of the OP-

    Video - Europe's Earliest Battle? - The Mystery of the Tollense Valley // Ancient History Documentary
    Previous discussion on this topic at http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showt...light=Tollense


    I believe in full disclosure (when I can remember to do it).


    Ok; I did not catch that right off, but did remember reading about this.

  10. #10
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    Humans have loved to war since the beginning of humans....

    Nothing new....

    Texican....

  11. #11
    It's also possible that the dam mentioned in the OP was the reason for the war, too. Cut off water from another group? They might be a tad riled.

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