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REL GENRL A Chicago couple lives like Orthodox Jews — and preaches the word of Jesus
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  1. #1
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    A Chicago couple lives like Orthodox Jews — and preaches the word of Jesus

    Stealth Christians I guess.
    The Hasidic Orthodox Jews are the Jewish equivalent to the snake handling, talking in tongues, fundamentalists in the Christian faith, only more strict.
    They don't take kindly to outsiders trying to sneak in among them and lead members of the group away.
    I think they would have had more success if they infiltrated a Reform Synagogue. They are the Jewish equivalent of the Universalist Unitarians and are pretty open minded about everything

    Low hanging fruit and all


    https://www.timesofisrael.com/a-chic...word-of-jesus/

    A Chicago couple lives like Orthodox Jews — and preaches the word of Jesus

    Two members of the Illinois Jewish community, who dress in religious garb, are outed as Christian missionaries. They don’t deny it, and don’t see a problem

    By Josefin Dolsten Today, 1:17 am 0

    Illustrative: an ultra-Orthodox Jewish couple enjoys a sunny afternoon at the Tel Aviv port, February 5, 2016. (Tomer Neuberg/Flash90)

    JTA — A few months ago, a couple got involved in the Chicago Jewish community. Rivkah Weber and David Costello started attending an Orthodox synagogue in the West Ridge neighborhood. They looked and acted like Orthodox Jews: Weber covered her hair and wore long skirts, while Costello sported sidelocks and a kippah. The latter took a job at a kosher supermarket.



    But on Wednesday, warnings started spreading on Jewish Facebook groups in Chicago and beyond saying the couple, the parents of two children, were actually Christian missionaries.
    “[T]o answer the rumors, it is true that a couple moved into our community in the purpose of proselytizing … They are confirmed missionaries,” read one post, which contained photos of the couple dressed in traditional Orthodox garb.


    Reached Friday by the Jewish Telegraphic Agency, the couple said they do believe in Jesus and that one reason they had become involved in the Jewish community was to spread their beliefs.
    “We want Jewish people to recognize Yeshua as Moshiach and as a Jewish Messiah,” Costello said in the phone interview, using the Hebrew words for Jesus and the Messiah.


    He claims that he never hid his beliefs if asked and spoke with people in the community about them, but would not specify how many. Costello, who peppers his speech with Hebrew and Yiddish words, said the family is sincere in their observance of an Orthodox lifestyle.


    “We actually keep the Torah and the mitzvahs,” he said. “We actually have an Orthodox life in our house and every day of our life, and they are saying that it’s simply to deceive and to bring Jewish people to believe in Jesus.”
    On Thursday, JTA spoke with three rabbis who had interacted with the couple. None of the three agreed to have their names published.
    “People feel betrayed,” said one rabbi, who leads a community in Chicago. “If you want to believe in something and sell it, that’s your business. But to come into a community and portray to be something you’re not, prey on people, unsuspecting, is unacceptable.”


    On Tuesday, the rabbi said, a Brooklyn man who was visiting the city attended services at a local synagogue and recognized Costello. He had attended the man’s synagogue in New York for six months before congregants found out that he believed in Jesus and had ties to a missionary group.
    The rabbi was informed of this and approached Costello the next day.
    COLlive, a community news site, quoted Rabbi Levi Notik of FREE, a Chabad community for Russian Jews, in a report about the pair. Notik said Costello did not deny his belief in Jesus when confronted.
    “On the contrary, he insists that he is correct in his way and has no regrets,” the rabbi said.
    Members of the Chicago Jewish community issued Facebook warnings about a couple who presented themselves as Orthodox Jews but were Christian missionaries. At right, an evangelical newsletter in Texas wrote an admiring profile about the couple’s efforts to convert Jews. (Courtesy/JTA)



    JTA obtained a document from 2016 in which it said that David Costello was employed by Global Gates, an organization whose mission is “to see gospel transformation of the world’s most unevangelized people groups (sic) who have come to global gateway cities, and through them reach their communities around the world.” The organization names various Jewish and Hasidic groups in a listing of the “most significant unreached people group communities in Metro NY.”
    Global Gates told JTA in an email on Thursday that the Costellos no longer worked for the organization.
    “They were previously employed by Global Gates for less than a year. Their relationship with Global Gates ended in July 2017,” wrote David Garrison, the organization’s executive director.
    Garrison would not answer additional questions about the nature of the Costellos’ work.
    Costello, 37, was raised in a Christian family in New Jersey but says his maternal great-grandmother was Jewish. He says his wife, 27, is from North Carolina and may have some Jewish ancestry on her father’s side but has not been able to verify it.


    Though traditional Judaism believes in the concept of a Messiah, no Jewish denominations consider Jesus to be the Messiah. Messianic groups, such as Jews for Jesus, are not accepted as Jewish by the broader Jewish community, even though some adherents may have been born Jewish and their ritual life includes Jewish practices.


    Costello denied reports that his wife had worked as a babysitter in Chicago and tried to talk to children about her faith.
    Facebook posts circulating this week shared an article from the newsletter of Johnson County for Israel, an evangelical group based in Texas, that profiles a couple named “David and Rivkah” and describes their activities doing missionary work among Hasidim.
    Illustrative: Early commuters drive as the sun rises over the Chicago skyline Friday, June 30, 2017. (AP Photo/G-Jun Yam)

    “David and Rivkah have taken a very costly yet bold stand for the Lord in Brooklyn as they live kosher among Hasidim while serving Jesus as their Savior,” the November 2016 newsletter reads.


    Costello told JTA that he and his wife were the couple described, but that the newsletter inaccurately implied they had adopted an Orthodox Jewish lifestyle simply to convert people.
    Another Orthodox rabbi and community leader in Chicago said that during Purim, some families had found gift baskets at their homes containing missionary materials but it wasn’t clear at the time who had put them there. The rabbi said he now believes it was the work of the couple. Costello denied he and his wife were behind this and said the couple had done something similar years ago, but not in Chicago.
    The second rabbi, who had several interactions with the couple, had not suspected that they were missionaries, but said he had felt something wasn’t quite right.
    For example, he said that Costello had vast knowledge about the Bible but spoke poor Hebrew. And though Weber dressed quite modestly, she did not always wear darker colors, as traditionally favored by Hasidic women, and did not correctly pronounce certain Hebrew and Yiddish words.
    “I just thought that there was something off,” the rabbi said.


    The second rabbi and community leader put JTA in touch with a rabbi in the Brooklyn neighborhood of Williamsburg who confirmed that the couple had been attending a synagogue there for six months before their beliefs and ties to Global Gates were revealed. The Brooklyn rabbi said the couple was told not to return to the synagogue after they stood by their beliefs.
    Also in Chicago, the pair were told they were not welcome and Costello said he lost his job at the kosher store.


    The first local rabbi, who said people felt betrayed by the couple, said the community had warmly welcomed Costello and Weber.
    “They came to Chicago, they moved into their neighborhood, dressing and behaving outwardly like Hasidic Jews,” he said. “They were welcomed into the community and befriending everyone.”
    Last edited by TerryK; 05-17-2019 at 07:51 PM.
    “I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.”
    D. H. Lawrence

  2. #2
    People would do well to be a little more discerning, and a little thicker skinned.
    The couple aren't hurting anyone.
    The synagogue can ban them, and anyone who personally doesn't like what they are doing can shun them. Easy as that.

    ETA: Nobody *owns* a clothing style. I've dressed both tsunis (spell? modest Jewish style), and loosely Mennonite for several years, just because I like the comfort, modesty, and practicality. If someone is curious about my beliefs, they can just ask.

  3. #3
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    The earliest Christians were all practicing Jews. Nothing strange about that.
    "Freedom is not something to be secured in any one moment of time. We must struggle to preserve it every day. And freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction."
    -Ronald Reagan

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroe View Post
    People would do well to be a little more discerning, and a little thicker skinned.
    The couple aren't hurting anyone.
    The synagogue can ban them, and anyone who personally doesn't like what they are doing can shun them. Easy as that.

    ETA: Nobody *owns* a clothing style. I've dressed both tsunis (spell? modest Jewish style), and loosely Mennonite for several years, just because I like the comfort, modesty, and practicality. If someone is curious about my beliefs, they can just ask.
    Did you also join their church and pretend to be a devout member?
    It isn't the style of clothing that caused the problems.
    After adapting the clothing and even learning some poor Hebrew and Yiddish, they joined the different synagogues for months at a time, participated in worship services and gained employment in a kosher grocery store. In other words they pretended to be Hasidic Jewish and infiltrated the group with the purpose of converting some of them after months of gaining their trust by pretending to be normal Jewish members of the synagogue. Then there is the matter of a Jewish family trusting them to babysit their kids and them preaching to the kids.
    There is an actual Christian organization that engages in this practice.

    Seriously, this isn't about their clothing and mannerisms.
    It's pretending to be something you aren't in order to lead people away from their beliefs.
    Hell isn't that something like Christians warn about Satan doing all the time?

    Seeing nothing wrong with it, and only seeing the clothing issue is most likely because of your own bias.
    And yes they were shunned and banned, but only after trying several times to convert other members of the synagogue.
    Hell, even the Mormons and the JWs are honest about who they are and what beliefs they are preaching to you.
    Last edited by TerryK; 05-17-2019 at 09:03 PM.
    “I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.”
    D. H. Lawrence

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by TerryK View Post
    Did you also join their church and pretend to be a devout member?
    It isn't the style of clothing that caused the problems.
    After adapting the clothing and even learning some poor Hebrew and Yiddish, they joined the different synagogues for months at a time, participated in worship services and gained employment in a kosher grocery store. In other words they pretended to be Hasidic Jewish and infiltrated the group with the purpose of converting some of them after months of gaining their trust by pretending to be normal Jewish members of the synagogue. Then there is the matter of a Jewish family trusting them to babysit their kids and them preaching to the kids.
    There is an actual Christian organization that engages in this practice.

    Seriously, this isn't about their clothing and mannerisms.
    It's pretending to be something you aren't in order to lead people away from their beliefs.
    Hell isn't that something like Christians warn about Satan doing all the time?

    Seeing nothing wrong with it, and only seeing the clothing issue is most likely because of your own bias.
    And yes they were shunned and banned, but only after trying several times to convert other members of the synagogue.
    Hell, even the Mormons and the JWs are honest about who they are and what beliefs they are preaching to you.
    The husband denies the wife was preaching to the kids. Take that for what you think it's worth. There are Christian groups who live like traditional Jews, and as I understand it, Jews for Jesus is a "thing."

    If people are strong in their own ethnic faith, than they aren't going to be led astray. No one has to listen to these two. As far as I'm concerned, the community can make it uncomfortable for them to stay, but it is not like the couple managed some malevolent hoax - wandering around talking about Jesus...Oh My God, the Horror. The article seems to be making an awfully big deal out of it. Not exactly some dramatic tale of victimization; sounds like they were more of a nuisance if anything.

    I guess the community is SO precious, that no outsiders should dare interact with them.

  6. #6
    Some might question, which is the fertile field, muslims or jews.....obviously both from my perspective...and every knee shall bow.

    Anybody got a Great Commission on their plate....? Where are the lost? Likely within reach, and not necessarily a jew or a muslim....but just the same.
    Lost is lost

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ractivist View Post
    Some might question, which is the fertile field, muslims or jews.....obviously both from my perspective...and every knee shall bow.

    Anybody got a Great Commission on their plate....? Where are the lost? Likely within reach, and not necessarily a jew or a muslim....but just the same.
    Lost is lost
    So would you join their synagogue, worship with them, just to spot the few weak ones who you could manage to convert to your faith?
    They usually got only one or two chances to broach Christianity to an unsuspecting member before they were reported and banned from the synagogue.

    I think the moslems call that taqiya. They can lie or even fake conversion to or claim to be another faith if their goal is to either save their lives, or possibly do something like converting an infidel to islam. Basically if it benefits islam it's ok to deceive.
    “I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.”
    D. H. Lawrence

  8. #8
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    Used to run across a radio program called "The Christian Jew Hour" way back when.
    ===================

    https://www.cjfm.org/about-us/who-we-are/history/

    History
    Our ministry was founded in 1948 by Charles Halff, a young Jewish man from San Antonio, Texas, who became a believer in Jesus as his Messiah and Savior. The Halffs had long been prominent in the local Jewish community, and Charles’ confession of faith in Jesus caused quite a commotion within his family. The story is recounted in detail in his biography entitled What It Costs a Jew to Become a Christian.

    The late Dr. Charles Feinberg of Dallas Theological Seminary took an interest in Charles Halff’s early ministry and encouraged him to go on the radio. Thus, "The Christian Jew Hour" (Charles’ popular radio program) became the first official name of the organization. In the mid-1950s, we were incorporated as “The Christian Jew Foundation.” Dr. Halff was assisted by a number of able and distinguished associates from the 1950s to the 1990s, that included Wayne Carver, Al Runge, A.H. Barbee, Woodrow Kroll, Arnold Fruchtenbaum. Several of these men went on to head their own ministries when they left San Antonio.

    In 1988, Dr. Halff asked his longtime friend, Gary Hedrick, a pastor in Eureka, Illinois, to move to San Antonio and assume the presidency of the ministry.

    Later, the name of the radio program was changed to "Messianic Perspectives" and the organization became known as “CJF Ministries.” Dr. Halff went home to Heaven in November 2000, and the ministry continues today under the leadership of his successor, Dr. Gary Hedrick.
    The wonder of our time isn’t how angry we are at politics and politicians; it’s how little we’ve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  9. #9
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    What part of Judaism can you not practice and still be a Christian?
    "When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law." ~ Frederic Bastiilt

    "Duty is ours; results are God's."

  10. #10
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    There are a lot of Jewish Christians, some Jewish by descent, others who have become Christians and choose to live as Jews. I have friends in both categories. I also have friends who are Jewish by descent, became Christians, and have left Judaism (a former pastor and his wife). Christianity is just the culmination of the Jewish faith, not really separate from it.

    Kathleen
    Behold, these are the mere edges of His ways, and how small a whisper we hear of Him.
    Job 26:14

    wickr ID freeholder45

  11. #11
    Consider what the Apostle Paul wrote:

    And unto the Jews I became as a Jew,that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; to them that are without law, as without law (being not without the law to God, but under the law to Christ) that I might gain them that are without the law. To the weak I became as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men that I might by all means save some. - 1 Corinthians 9:20-22
    "Be Prepared" - Boy Scouts Motto
    "And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch." - Jesus Christ, Mk 13:37
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    "Take a chill pill" - Mongo

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by SSTemplar View Post
    What part of Judaism can you not practice and still be a Christian?
    The Sacrifices and most of the civil law. But Jews even orthodox don't practice them anyway.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by SSTemplar View Post
    What part of Judaism can you not practice and still be a Christian?
    What part of Judaism did Christ Jesus NOT "practice"? Jesus was/is a "Jew" and came FOR the Jews and His focus was on Israel.
    The people of the United States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. Abraham Lincoln, 1859

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gercarson View Post
    What part of Judaism did Christ Jesus NOT "practice"? Jesus was/is a "Jew" and came FOR the Jews and His focus was on Israel.
    Very good point. His focus grew to the Gentile world after the beginning of the Church, and the apostles concluded that Gentile believers did not *need* to become Jews in order to be saved, but they never told the Jews to stop practicing Judaism. In fact, they never told the Gentile believers that they couldn't follow the Jewish practices, only that it was wrong to teach them that they *needed* to follow Jewish practices in order to be saved.

    Kathleen
    Behold, these are the mere edges of His ways, and how small a whisper we hear of Him.
    Job 26:14

    wickr ID freeholder45

  15. #15
    Ultimately, a hit piece on Christians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freeholder View Post
    Very good point. His focus grew to the Gentile world after the beginning of the Church, and the apostles concluded that Gentile believers did not *need* to become Jews in order to be saved, but they never told the Jews to stop practicing Judaism. In fact, they never told the Gentile believers that they couldn't follow the Jewish practices, only that it was wrong to teach them that they *needed* to follow Jewish practices in order to be saved.

    Kathleen
    This is true. Yet, there are movements out there that preach that for a Christian to be "really" born again, they have to follow the strict standards of Jewish law. What gets me is the fact that they themselves can't follow every aspect of that same law. If Christians want to follow Jewish practices, in so much as they can, I see nothing wrong with it, but to say that it's a salvation issue is just wrong.
    Sherree

  17. #17
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    There are a LOT of Christians that are waking up and becoming Torah observant. I know of a half dozen families in my church that are observant in one way or another. Some may adopt the Jewish culture, while others may observe the Feast days and try to keep torah.

    I don't see anything wrong with it.

    I seriously doubt this couple is trying to surreptitiously proselytize other jews. They just like living in the culture. Of course... Every Christian should witness to others when asked.

    This is an example of the orthodox community overreacting to Christians within their community.
    WARNING!!!

    My use of pronouns will offend faggots, mentally unstable people, and the gender confused.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSTemplar View Post
    What part of Judaism can you not practice and still be a Christian?
    What is your minimum requirement to be a "Christian"?

    LOL... Do they have to be baptized into your specific denomination, and lose their salvation if they leave your church?


    Geez!!!
    WARNING!!!

    My use of pronouns will offend faggots, mentally unstable people, and the gender confused.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBreeze View Post
    This is true. Yet, there are movements out there that preach that for a Christian to be "really" born again, they have to follow the strict standards of Jewish law. What gets me is the fact that they themselves can't follow every aspect of that same law. If Christians want to follow Jewish practices, in so much as they can, I see nothing wrong with it, but to say that it's a salvation issue is just wrong.
    And there are Christian denominations that are just as bad....
    WARNING!!!

    My use of pronouns will offend faggots, mentally unstable people, and the gender confused.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by GammaRat View Post
    And there are Christian denominations that are just as bad....
    I'm not understanding what you mean? Are you referring to some of the more fundamental denominations? If so, then yes, I agree.
    Sherree

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    Some denominations say that as long as you claim to be saved, you can live like the devil.

    You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror.*
    James 2:19
    WARNING!!!

    My use of pronouns will offend faggots, mentally unstable people, and the gender confused.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by GammaRat
    Some denominations say that as long as you claim to be saved, you can live like the devil.
    And that saying is from the pit of hell.
    Sherree

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    Oh.. I agree completely!
    WARNING!!!

    My use of pronouns will offend faggots, mentally unstable people, and the gender confused.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by SSTemplar View Post
    What part of Judaism can you not practice and still be a Christian?
    There it is. BOOM.

    Thank you, SSTemplar.
    22 Whoever does not love the Lord—a curse on him! Maranatha—Our Lord, come! 23 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you.
    (1 Corinthians 16)

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Gercarson View Post
    What part of Judaism did Christ Jesus NOT "practice"? Jesus was/is a "Jew" and came FOR the Jews and His focus was on Israel.
    He came for both the Jews and the gentiles.

    And I accept His Free Gift that is available to all! Thank you, Jesus!
    22 Whoever does not love the Lord—a curse on him! Maranatha—Our Lord, come! 23 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you.
    (1 Corinthians 16)

  26. #26
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    Seems much ado about nothing. I doubt most Christian churches (even the "snake-handling" kind) would be too upset over an Orthodox Jewish family hanging out in the flock. Can't figger out WTH they are afraid of.

    If nothing else, I'd expect more wisdom from the Rabbi(s).

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by TammyinWI View Post
    He came for both the Jews and the gentiles.

    And I accept His Free Gift that is available to all! Thank you, Jesus!
    For God so loved the WORLD is a key phrase here - BUT . . . Matthew 15:24 - 28
    24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." 25 The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. 26 He replied, "It is not right to take the children's (Israel) bread and toss it to their dogs." 27 "Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table." 28 Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.
    The people of the United States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. Abraham Lincoln, 1859

  28. #28
    The answer in Verse 24 was to His Disciples (for the time He walked the earth in the Flesh)...He meant that He would limit His Ministry to Israel. He sent the Disciples out to the world to Minister/Spread the Good News Cast Out demons, Heal the sick, etc., in His Name.
    22 Whoever does not love the Lord—a curse on him! Maranatha—Our Lord, come! 23 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you.
    (1 Corinthians 16)

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by TammyinWI View Post
    The answer in Verse 24 was to His Disciples (for the time He walked the earth in the Flesh)...He meant that He would limit His Ministry to Israel. He sent the Disciples out to the world to Minister/Spread the Good News Cast Out demons, Heal the sick, etc., in His Name.
    Actually He sent the 12 apostles only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He told them not to go to the gentile cities. Paul was the apostle sent to the gentiles and the jews.

    Jesus Chooses the Twelve
    10 1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
    The Mission of the Twelve
    5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. 9 Provide [1] neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, 10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: [2] for the workman is worthy of his meat. 11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence. 12 And when ye come into an house, salute it. 13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. 15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city

  30. #30
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    Paul is a false apostle.

    Peter was sent to the Gentiles..

    Or was Peter's vision about eating bacon?

    Matthias is the 12th apostle.
    Last edited by GammaRat; 05-18-2019 at 07:24 PM.
    WARNING!!!

    My use of pronouns will offend faggots, mentally unstable people, and the gender confused.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GammaRat View Post
    Some denominations say that as long as you claim to be saved, you can live like the devil.

    You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror.*
    James 2:19
    But christians do not worship God the father do they?
    "Man is not to be blamed for sinning. After all, he faces great temptations and is extremely vulnerable. What he is blamed for is not doing Teshuvah (repenting) because he can do that at any time." Rav Simcha Bunim of P'shischa

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by poppy View Post
    Actually He sent the 12 apostles only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He told them not to go to the gentile cities. Paul was the apostle sent to the gentiles and the jews.

    Jesus Chooses the Twelve
    10 1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
    The Mission of the Twelve
    5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. 9 Provide [1] neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, 10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: [2] for the workman is worthy of his meat. 11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence. 12 And when ye come into an house, salute it. 13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. 15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city
    That was an earlier mission, and then later came this:

    The great commission

    The “great commission” has the same limited temporal horizon as the earlier mission—Jesus promises to be with his disciples until the end of the age of the second temple Judaism (Matt. 28:20). The difference is that this takes place after the resurrection. Because “All authority in heaven and on earth” has been given to Jesus, he sends them out into the wider Greek-Roman world to “make disciples of all nations”. Their mission must now take account of the fact that the Son of Man has been given the authority anticipated in Daniel’s vision:

    “And royal authority was given to him, and all the nations of the earth according to posterity, and all honor was serving him. And his authority is an everlasting authority, which shall never be removed—and his kingship, which will never perish. (Dan. 7:14 LXX)

    If the Son of Man is to have authority over the nations, then it is fitting that he should have disciples not from Israel only but also from the nations. Paul has a similar argument in Romans 3:28-30 with respect to justification by faith: God’s people will be justified by faith rather than by works of the Jewish Law in order to demonstrate to the world that YHWH is God not of the Jews only but also of the Gentiles.

    https://www.postost.net/2015/11/why-...les-samaritans
    22 Whoever does not love the Lord—a curse on him! Maranatha—Our Lord, come! 23 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you.
    (1 Corinthians 16)

  33. #33
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    29,737
    First, I take exception to the idea that a Conservative (Hasidic) Jew is equal to a "Snake-handling, talking in tongues fundamentalist."

    By that definition, MOSES was a nut---since most of the regulations observed so studiously by Hasidic Jews come straight from the Torah (such as not cutting the sideburns, wearing a phylactery, and wearing a particularly-styled fringed prayer shawl, not to mention the dietary laws and so many more).

    Second, only someone who doesn't understand much about the JEWISH prophets, who preached of the coming of a JEWISH messiah, who (when He DID come) preached in JEWISH synagogues, to JEWISH crowds, openly proclaimed his Messiahship in the JEWISH temple in Jerusalem, and who (after he rose from the dead) told his JEWISH disciples to BEGIN their ministry of telling the world the "good news" (that's what "Gospel" means) about Him by STARTING in JUDEA (home of the JEWS)---

    would say that it is somehow "dishonest" to be both JEWISH and a believer in the JEWISH MESSIAH at the same time.

    In fact, the early Church (which was ALL JEWISH) had quite a controversy over whether it could be ALLOWED, to have Gentile (non-Jewish) members even JOIN the (JEWISH) Church until they FIRST CONVERTED to JUDAISM.

    It was finally decided they did NOT need to convert first---but they were enjoined by the JEWISH church to abstain from idols, from eating meat with the blood (in other words, Kosher), from things that had been strangled (again, Kosher), and to avoid immorality (rampant in the Gentile world).

    It was not until after the destruction of the Temple at Jerusalem, and the scattering of the Jewish people, that the emphasis in Christianity spread from its JEWISH beginnings---to its Gentile members, as more and more Romans, Greeks, and Gentile middle-easterners became converts to the faith.
    Be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled…Let no man deceive you by any means…..
    they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved….for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie….
    Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by medic38572 View Post
    But christians do not worship God the father do they?
    Christians necessarily believe in the Holy Trinity - remember too, that Jesus told us that He and the Father are One - and if we have seen Him, we have seen the Father. Jesus gave us parables that many Christians find difficult to decipher - such as God is a Spirit and must be worshiped in spirit and various other sayings that let us know where God resides. Christians DO worship God the Father because in Him we live and move and have our being. He is omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence.
    The people of the United States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. Abraham Lincoln, 1859

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