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LEGAL Alabama Legislature Passes Major Pro-Life Bill, Banning Almost All Abortions
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  1. #41
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    If we have New York, Mass, Rhode Island and Illinois allowing abortion at birth, then there has to be at least one state designated as a fetal rights sanctuary state. Where women can flee if spouse, partner, parents or in laws are pressuring her to abort against her will. e.t.a. my spellcheck on this ipad constantly changes fetal to feral and abort to about, 3 times I corrected it.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Reasonable Rascal View Post
    Your augment says that a child conceived of rape is not worthy of life. Rape or incest, however horrific, is not a reason to reject life. The argument damages people if all political persuasions.

    RR
    I can see where you would think that. I was sticking with one particular area and leaving my personal feelings out of it.
    I, personally, think all life is worth saving. I have, repeatedly, offered to raise the children of people I know if they would chose to not have an abortion.

    But, I have seen the damage that rape does. There are women who would not mentally survive if they carried a rape child to term. Right or wrong, I am not the final judge. I would not want that on my conscience. Which innocent victim would you choose?

    Children of incest have a whole additional set of problems that will plague them for life. And may plague their own children. And that is if you are willing to ignore that most incest cases occur to minor children with bodies that are not ready to handle pregnancy. They face increased risks of complications as well as risk of permanent medical issues from carrying a child to term at such a young age. Again, which innocent victim will you choose?

    And that is saying that you have the right to stand as judge and jury to make that decision.
    There are reasons I support rape and incest clauses.

    And, as I have been discussing with someone else, making abortion illegal is not going to stop it. It is just opening up a whole can of snakes on a generation that was raised on free sex. People refuse to see that there have been major technological and medical advances that will effect both males and females regarding parentage. Men will no longer be able to sow their oats without consequences. Women are no longer shamed into submission. Marriage is no longer viewed as the solution. Society's whole structure has changed drastically in the years since Roe vs Wade. There have been 5 decades of single moms and child support laws. DNA will be used to force men into responsibility for their actions. It already is. Young men will make mistakes that will quite possibly destroy their dreams for the future.

    Wise parents have already been teaching their sons to be careful but there are so few that tried to teach it and fewer still that listened. I coached my younger brothers over 2 decades ago after working at a rape crisis center and hearing the agendas that were being pushed. Surprisingly both listened. And the one that is still single has only been in a worrying situation one time. Until DNA cleared him and she decided to abort, even though family was still willing to adopt and raise the child.

    So there is at least one generation of males that is about to run into a maelstrom of epic proportions. And on the other side, will be generations of males that will be much more careful. Males that will learn the lessons currently taught to females about being careful and sexual responsibilities. It won't be pretty. In between, as with other times of drastic changes, there will be destroyed lives.

    But, on the other side, as much as I hate it, these lawsuits need to happen. There needs to be a firm guideline definition of the beginning of life. The dark gray area that has existed has been leading to very dangerous things.

    Anyone that thinks that this is about Christian views or religion is deluding themselves. If that were the case, these things would have happened decades ago. Abortion is a dying industry no longer worth the billions of dollars it was worth. Cheaper medical alternatives are available and have been killing the industry off. And those alternatives are still available in the states with the new abortion laws. Heck, the womens' groups are already spreading the information on how to prepare and work around the new laws in ways that will keep the women safe. And, christianity is just one of many religions in the good ol' USA.

    All these cases will do is provide a much needed solid guideline for the courts on when life begins. And I say much needed because there have been cases of assault on pregnant women where a child dies but no charges were pressed. As well as other gray areas.
    Please, come say Hi! and share your experience/knowledge. I love to learn.

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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reasonable Rascal View Post
    And this would happen how often?

    RR
    Once is too many.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith357 View Post
    I think its your comprehension that is clouded - I was responding to a SPECIFIC post that stated, in essence, that women never get pregnant from rape. My response stands. If his defense of the law is that it doesn't matter because the circumstance never happens then there is no reason for the law.
    MY response stands as well. The SOLE reason for the law is to trigger a SCOTUS review. You persist in thinking that this law would actually be implemented (even if signed by the gov.) No chance of that. Sure, it would go on the books, but that's it.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by CaryC View Post
    Thanks Raffy.

    I too was wondering how this bill endangered the lives of doctors?????? Which IMHO simply goes to show, it isn't about saving lives, but rather taking lives.

    If anyone is interested in the 10th here is a link:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_...s_Constitution

    It should also be noted IMHO that it is against federal law to grow/distribute/smoke marijuana, however it is legal in Colorado to name at least one. State law vs Federal law.
    I can answer this from personal experience, in a way. Anyone assisting in an abortion will be charged with murder or accessory to murder. A detective on a witch hunt can do a lot of damage.
    But, in my personal case, when it was discovered that my mother was pregnant by her new boyfriend (very new boyfriend) her family took her to their doctor. The doctor, presuming what the family wanted and with a lot of people jumping to conclusions, wrote a diagnosis recommending abortion because I was too close to the uterine lining and creating a situation that endangered my mother's life. All legal even before Roe vs. Wade.
    All of this was done on the assumption that my Dad was not going to step up and be responsible. And that as her new boyfriend she may not want to spend her life with him. Dad was poor and fighting to survive. She was from a middle class roman Catholic Italian family.
    But Dad did step up and Mom said yes. The problem was that the diagnosis and recommendation was already part of her medical records. Without a good reason, the doctor could not change his recommendation. And her family wasn't willing to support a change. To change things Dad had to fight both families. So, in 1969 dollars, he had to earn over $500 very quickly (less than a month) to pay for the then new technology of an ultrasound. And Mom had to agree to have it done. He did it and she agreed. That new technology gave the doctor a legitimate way to back out of a very sticky situation without having his medical license at risk. (With these new bills it would be murder charges.)
    To this day, I still realize just how close I came to not existing. My Dad's actions proved to both families that he would do what he said and healed some rifts within his own family. They went forward with a lot of support.
    But, that is how doctors lives, and livelihoods, can be put at risk by these bills.
    Please, come say Hi! and share your experience/knowledge. I love to learn.

    http://survivingtothrivin.blogspot.com/

  6. #46
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    I don't know if the Governor will sign it or not, but it is moot.

    As said many times, it was deliberately written to try to force a Supreme Court decision.

    If she does sign it, it won't go into effect for 6 months to allow time for court challenges.

    If she doesn't, the initial votes were veto proof , so unless a large number of the members change their vote, it will be law and it still won't go into effect for 6 months. It will be challenged in the 11th Circuit for sure and most likely eventually end up in the SC.

    vote count

    House: 74-3
    Senate: 25-6

    Alabama veto override:

    Template: Alabama veto override

    Veto Override Graphic-Republican Party.png

    See also: Veto overrides in state legislatures

    State legislatures can override governors' vetoes. Depending on the state, this can be done during the regular legislative session, in a special session following the adjournment of the regular session, or during the next legislative session. The rules for legislative overrides of gubernatorial vetoes in Alabama are listed below.

    How many legislators are required to vote for an override? A majority of members in both chambers.
    A simple majority of members in both chambers must vote to override a veto, which is 53 of the 105 members in the Alabama House of Representatives and 18 of the 35 members in the Alabama State Senate. Alabama is one of six states that requires a majority vote from each of its legislative chambers to override a veto.

    Authority: Article V, Section 125 of the Alabama Constitution.
    "If the governor's message proposes amendment, which would remove his objections, the house to which it is sent may so amend the bill and send it with the governor's message to the other house, which may adopt, but can not amend, said amendment; and both houses concurring in the amendment, the bill shall again be sent to the governor and acted on by him as other bills. If the house to which the bill is returned refuses to make such amendment, it shall proceed to reconsider it; and if a majority of the whole number elected to that house shall vote for the passage of the bill, it shall be sent with the objections to the other house, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by a majority of the whole number elected to that house, it shall become a law."
    https://ballotpedia.org/Template:Alabama_veto_override
    Nana to two "little bits", one not-so-little "little bit" and one 6' college bound "little bit"

  7. #47
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    Have all women forgotten about the “morning after pill?”

    If you are raped, or your brother/father/uncle has their way with you, go to the ER, they do a rape kit, get the morning after pill at the neighborhood drug store.

    Done.

    (Admittedly, I’m not sure of the effectiveness.)

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by bev View Post
    Have all women forgotten about the “morning after pill?”

    If you are raped, or your brother/father/uncle has their way with you, go to the ER, they do a rape kit, get the morning after pill at the neighborhood drug store.

    Done.

    (Admittedly, I’m not sure of the effectiveness.)
    No. They haven't forgotten. But the morning after pill carries it's own risks. And new protections allow pharmacists to refuse to sell it if it is against their religion. In most cases, it will be used. But there are always cases that end up too late. Typically incest. Or rapes where the woman blocked the memory.
    I had a friend in high school that so thoroughly blocked her own memories that it wasn't even discovered that she was pregnant until she was 8 months along and taken to the ER for alcohol poisoning. Not a healthy way to deal with things. No one realized what was happening because the fetus was so small.
    And you are assuming that it is not a preteen or younger child. Or someone that can actually get out to get the pill.
    I've seen some things that make me doubt humanity. There are reasons that I tend to hermit. But even without my experiences, look at the cases that made the news over the past few decades. They are not isolated.
    Please, come say Hi! and share your experience/knowledge. I love to learn.

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  9. #49
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    Governor signed the bill.
    Nana to two "little bits", one not-so-little "little bit" and one 6' college bound "little bit"

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilbitsnana View Post
    Governor signed the bill.
    Good!
    Sherree

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalknTrot
    Realistically, if this goes to the Supremes, the best that can be hoped for is that abortion regulation will be left up to individual states. We all know that there will always be liberal states that will allow abortion.
    This is what I see happening. The SC won't overturn Roe vs Wade, but will give each state the right to choose for themselves. If women absolutely believe that they have to have an abortion, let them pay for out of state travel. There are more liberal states out there that will gladly accommodate them.
    Sherree

  12. #52
    Good job Alabama! This is the law that's going to end up being challenged in the Supreme court. And with the supreme court leaning ever more to the right (die already RBG!!!!!) that law will hold intact.

  13. #53
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    This is the far right response to the far left's post birth abortion proposal.
    The fact of the matter is that the majority of the American public doesn't support either position.

    The majority of Americans support a woman's right to an early term abortion, but not late term and certainly not post term. The rape and incest parts of the bill will tilt the general public's views against this bill even more.

    The other undeniable fact is that both the democrats post term abortion proposal and this almost total ban on abortion even in cases of rape or incest, whether upheld or not in the SC, will be used as political weapons in the 2020 elections. And both will be used to scare voters into getting off their asses and voting and supporting their favorite side, or as more likely, voting against the side they don't like.

    Between Roy Moore, Jeff Sessions, and now this bill that has been signed by the Gov, I'm betting Trump wishes Alabama would just go away.

    It will be very interesting to see how the individual SC justices vote on this, especially Trump's new picks.
    “I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.”
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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilbitsnana View Post
    Governor signed the bill.
    Hallelujah.......!!!!!

    All this stuff about when does life begin? When it has a heartbeat. If it's heart is beating, it's a life and deserves to be born. Most abortions are due to a woman not wanting to have a child. Be it the first or the 10th because she is a slut and can't keep her legs closed. It's way too easy for these women to kill that child and go on with her life. But, she WILL feel guilt at some point and it may follow her to her grave. It's a sin to kill. Killing a fetus is murder/killing. Period. No way to talk yourself out of that. You are killing a baby. Period.


    In his heart a man plans his course, but the Lord determines his steps.

    Proverbs 16:9




  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by smith357 View Post
    It goes too far. Forcing a woman to have a rapists baby.
    Two wrongs don't make a right. It is kind of disturbing to think about, but personally I don't think the baby should be murdered.

    ETA: see that the bill was signed...yay! Real progress for the sanctity of life.

    The truth needs to be told about abortion, including how many women really regret having one.
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    Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by kyrsyan View Post
    I can answer this from personal experience, in a way. Anyone assisting in an abortion will be charged with murder or accessory to murder. A detective on a witch hunt can do a lot of damage.
    But, in my personal case, when it was discovered that my mother was pregnant by her new boyfriend (very new boyfriend) her family took her to their doctor. The doctor, presuming what the family wanted and with a lot of people jumping to conclusions, wrote a diagnosis recommending abortion because I was too close to the uterine lining and creating a situation that endangered my mother's life. All legal even before Roe vs. Wade.
    All of this was done on the assumption that my Dad was not going to step up and be responsible. And that as her new boyfriend she may not want to spend her life with him. Dad was poor and fighting to survive. She was from a middle class roman Catholic Italian family.
    But Dad did step up and Mom said yes. The problem was that the diagnosis and recommendation was already part of her medical records. Without a good reason, the doctor could not change his recommendation. And her family wasn't willing to support a change. To change things Dad had to fight both families. So, in 1969 dollars, he had to earn over $500 very quickly (less than a month) to pay for the then new technology of an ultrasound. And Mom had to agree to have it done. He did it and she agreed. That new technology gave the doctor a legitimate way to back out of a very sticky situation without having his medical license at risk. (With these new bills it would be murder charges.)
    To this day, I still realize just how close I came to not existing. My Dad's actions proved to both families that he would do what he said and healed some rifts within his own family. They went forward with a lot of support.
    But, that is how doctors lives, and livelihoods, can be put at risk by these bills.
    Wow. Thanks so much for sharing. Divine intervention.

    You were/are meant to be here walking on this earth for a reason.
    Last edited by TammyinWI; 05-15-2019 at 08:04 PM.
    https://safeg.net/home A Safe Alternative to Harmful 5G Wireless

    Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

  17. #57
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    As a prolifer, I'm so proud Alabama is taking this stand, even in the case of rape.......

    Here's a little account shortened and edited for this sort of thread when "rape" comes into the reason for abortion:

    A True Life Story Involving Rape And Carrying A Baby To Term.

    When I was younger in the mid 70’s, DH was in the Navy when I gave birth to both my daughters at the Balboa Naval hospital. For my second daughter, I developed a fever and had to be kept from my brand new baby and because it upset me so much and cried almost constantly, I was taken from the large maternity ward to a room I shared with another “problem case” mother.

    Her story was so much sadder than mine and this is the story she shared with me. I can't think of anything more tragic and sad:


    Same age as I, this young mother gave birth to her second baby as well but this was NOT a happy thing! As it turned out, tragically, she was raped by 3 men and when this rape occurred, it was at the same time they were trying for their second child!!

    Of course, they had to wait until the baby was born to see if it was from her husband or not and her pregnancy was filled with both dread and anticipation. She told me she already made up her mind that if it wasn’t her husband’s she was going to give it up for adoption because she didn’t want to chance seeing her rapist’s face in her child later on and that fear never left her mind.

    Not knowing her moral/religious stand on it or not, I asked her if a legal abortion ever crossed her mind and she said that while the nightmare of her rape was already getting less because of the love and strength from her husband, she knew if she aborted the baby, the knowledge of that nightmare, would NEVER leave because there's no going back! Even if she knew 100% that it couldn’t be her husband’s baby, she would never abort because she believed babies were human from the start. That baby was not at fault and deserved to be loved. She didn’t want to risk holding back any of her love, hence the decision to adopt her out.

    What complicated the situation further, after the baby was born, even though she didn’t see the baby (until the test was done) her husband did. It was a girl, which was exactly what they were trying for because their other child was a boy. He fell in love with the newborn and approached his wife with the announcement that if she wanted the baby, he would too and raise it as his own, but it was up to her.

    With only a curtain separating us it broke my heart to hear them both cry not only because of her sadness, fears, and refusal but of the entire situation and that situation didn’t get better because there was a nurse who would come in and tell her all about how the baby was doing, how cute and sweet she was and how pretty she was in order to get her to change her mind.

    It didn’t.

    Nothing about this story is simple or easy. As hard as this tragedy unfolded, when it came time to sign the papers, she was calm and though a little somber, she didn’t cry. I do want to add, during this whole time, they both prayed and were at peace knowing they did the right thing for the baby. (And for her, there will peace with NO abortion regrets and nightmares.)

    Note: I often look at my second daughter with my own prayer and that is, the little one born at the same time, did indeed go to a family 100% full of love and this brave couple healed and got the daughter they longed and prayed for. When I do, there's a "feeling" I get that's EXACTLY what happend, PRAISE GOD!!!

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilbitsnana View Post
    Governor signed the bill.
    Progressive heads across the country...













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  19. #59
    There is more to this law than just getting the issue before the Supreme Court. As I alluded to earlier, according to a plain reading of the US Constitution, the federal government of the United States has NO authority to strike down state's laws on powers not specifically delegated to it by the US Constitution. This is clearly shown in the 10th Amendment to the US Constitution (which is one of the Bill of Rights). The text of the 10th Amendment is as follows:

    "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

    No power is delegated to the United States by the Constitution to bear on legislation regarding abortion. So in that sense I agree with others who have posted here that the issue of abortion should be left up to the states. I'm a staunch pro-lifer, so I am glad to see the law passed by the legislature of my state criminalizing most abortions. However, there is no authority given to the federal government to strike down this law according to the Constitution. Therefore, any attempt by the federal government to strike down this or any other such laws (whether using Roe v. Wade or any other SC ruling) is illegitimate and is an attempt to usurp authority that is not given. The same would be true for states that pass laws allowing abortion (laws which I despise, but nevertheless, the federal government has no authority to strike down even those).

    It is past time for the states, and the citizens thereof, to stand up to the federal government and say "NO" when the federal government steps out of line and tries to illegitimately usurp authority that does not belong to it according to its own governing document. That is what I really hope to see come out of this law. Will the citizens of Alabama and its state government have the guts to finish what they've started here? That remains to be seen.

  20. #60
    It should be noted that it looks like what some conclusions that have been mentioned here seems to be in the works, namely the 10th Amendment.

    Wednesday on Huntsville, AL radio’s WVNN, Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL), reacted to his home state’s legislature’s passage of what many perceive to be the strictest abortion ban in the country.

    Brooks called in an exercise of the 10th Amendment and said he felt confident it would challenge the 1973 Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision.

    “The State of Alabama is exercising its 10th Amendment rights,” Brooks said on “The Jeff Poor Show.” “I believe in states’ rights. I’m also pro-life. And with this new Supreme Court, if the purpose is to determine whether Roe v. Wade, which in my judgment violates the 10th Amendment and states’ rights.

    If the purpose is to challenge Roe v. Wade with this new Supreme Court, I’m confident this bill will do that.”
    https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2019...ndment-rights/

    On Wednesday’s broadcast of CNN’s “AC360,” CNN Chief Legal Analyst and New Yorker Staff Writer Jeffrey Toobin declared that “Roe v. Wade is gone,” and predicted that Alabama’s abortion ban will be upheld by the Supreme Court.

    Toobin said, “Roe v. Wade is gone, and every woman in Alabama who gets pregnant is going to be forced to give birth soon. And that’s going to be true in Alabama, and it’s going to be true in Missouri, and it’s going to be true probably in Georgia.”

    He further predicted that Chief Justice John Roberts, along with Justices Brett Kavanaugh, Neil Gorsuch, Samuel Alito, and Clarence Thomas will vote to uphold Alabama’s law.
    https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2019...-wade-is-gone/

    I think Toobin is stirring the pot because he doesn't actually know that. Sort of like wanting the radical left to start screaming.


    I know I, and some others have been the brunt of some objections for our lack of feeling for the rape victim, but nothing about our abundance of feeling for the child, who has no say in this matter, and will ultimately pay with their life for that.

    Be that as it may, to each their own, and again ultimately SCOTUS will settle this for our country, like their decision or not.

    Bearing that in mind, it should also be noted, and each of us Christian, or not, needs to contemplate the following verses, as to why would God do such a thing.

    Deu 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
    Deu 22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

    There are several verses there in Deu. 22 that deal with rape cases, check them out.


    Also the 5% I mentioned earlier was from a couple of sites that might be on the liberal side of things. Last night on Fox they were saying 1%, of rape cases end in a pregnancy.
    "Wise Men Still Seek Him"-bumper sticker

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  21. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Raffy View Post
    There is more to this law than just getting the issue before the Supreme Court. As I alluded to earlier, according to a plain reading of the US Constitution, the federal government of the United States has NO authority to strike down state's laws on powers not specifically delegated to it by the US Constitution. This is clearly shown in the 10th Amendment to the US Constitution (which is one of the Bill of Rights). The text of the 10th Amendment is as follows:

    "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

    No power is delegated to the United States by the Constitution to bear on legislation regarding abortion. So in that sense I agree with others who have posted here that the issue of abortion should be left up to the states. I'm a staunch pro-lifer, so I am glad to see the law passed by the legislature of my state criminalizing most abortions. However, there is no authority given to the federal government to strike down this law according to the Constitution. Therefore, any attempt by the federal government to strike down this or any other such laws (whether using Roe v. Wade or any other SC ruling) is illegitimate and is an attempt to usurp authority that is not given. The same would be true for states that pass laws allowing abortion (laws which I despise, but nevertheless, the federal government has no authority to strike down even those).

    It is past time for the states, and the citizens thereof, to stand up to the federal government and say "NO" when the federal government steps out of line and tries to illegitimately usurp authority that does not belong to it according to its own governing document. That is what I really hope to see come out of this law. Will the citizens of Alabama and its state government have the guts to finish what they've started here? That remains to be seen.
    Agreed!

    Once this "states rights" thing takes hold, it may also go to include bathrooms, gay marriage, gay adoptions, etc.
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  22. #62
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    Toobin said, “Roe v. Wade is gone, and every woman in Alabama who gets pregnant is going to be forced to give birth soon. And that’s going to be true in Alabama, and it’s going to be true in Missouri, and it’s going to be true probably in Georgia.”

    Sure, cuz it's impossible for people to leave their state of residence.

  23. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffy View Post
    There is more to this law than just getting the issue before the Supreme Court. As I alluded to earlier, according to a plain reading of the US Constitution, the federal government of the United States has NO authority to strike down state's laws on powers not specifically delegated to it by the US Constitution. This is clearly shown in the 10th Amendment to the US Constitution (which is one of the Bill of Rights). The text of the 10th Amendment is as follows:

    "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

    No power is delegated to the United States by the Constitution to bear on legislation regarding abortion. So in that sense I agree with others who have posted here that the issue of abortion should be left up to the states. I'm a staunch pro-lifer, so I am glad to see the law passed by the legislature of my state criminalizing most abortions. However, there is no authority given to the federal government to strike down this law according to the Constitution. Therefore, any attempt by the federal government to strike down this or any other such laws (whether using Roe v. Wade or any other SC ruling) is illegitimate and is an attempt to usurp authority that is not given. The same would be true for states that pass laws allowing abortion (laws which I despise, but nevertheless, the federal government has no authority to strike down even those).

    It is past time for the states, and the citizens thereof, to stand up to the federal government and say "NO" when the federal government steps out of line and tries to illegitimately usurp authority that does not belong to it according to its own governing document. That is what I really hope to see come out of this law. Will the citizens of Alabama and its state government have the guts to finish what they've started here? That remains to be seen.
    Exactly the way I see it. Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaryC
    Once this "states rights" thing takes hold, it may also go to include bathrooms, gay marriage, gay adoptions, etc.
    Let's hope so.
    Sherree

  24. #64
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    Abortion is an issue I don't chime in much on because you are either for killing innocent babies or not. That's just a non starter for me, what I will contribute on, is the fact the States are becoming divided, and that's a good thing.

    We are becoming 2 distinct people. Gov. Kay Ivy has become a cultural hero of Alabama. She and Alabama are at the forefront of the new cultural revolution that is taking place. May she stand strong in her disobedience to immorality.
    Hwæt! Wé Gárdena in géardagum þéodcyninga þrym gefrúnon· hú ðá æþelingas ellen fremedon. - Listen! We of the Spear-Danes in the days of yore, of those clan-kings heard of their glory. How the worthy princes performed courageous deeds!

  25. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by naegling62 View Post
    Abortion is an issue I don't chime in much on because you are either for killing innocent babies or not. That's just a non starter for me, what I will contribute on, is the fact the States are becoming divided, and that's a good thing.

    We are becoming 2 distinct people. Gov. Kay Ivy has become a cultural hero of Alabama. She and Alabama are at the forefront of the new cultural revolution that is taking place. May she stand strong in her disobedience to immorality.
    Congrats on AL stands.

    Be praying for us Mississippians. Gov. Bryant has been great. However his term is up, and we will be voting in Nov. for a new one. May God have mercy on us if a Dem. wins.
    "Wise Men Still Seek Him"-bumper sticker

    "Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other."-John Adams
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  26. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by naegling62 View Post
    Abortion is an issue I don't chime in much on because you are either for killing innocent babies or not. That's just a non starter for me, what I will contribute on, is the fact the States are becoming divided, and that's a good thing.

    We are becoming 2 distinct people. Gov. Kay Ivy has become a cultural hero of Alabama. She and Alabama are at the forefront of the new cultural revolution that is taking place. May she stand strong in her disobedience to immorality.

    ^^^THIS 100%^^^
    Sherree

  27. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by CaryC View Post
    It should be noted that it looks like what some conclusions that have been mentioned here seems to be in the works, namely the 10th Amendment.



    https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2019...ndment-rights/



    https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2019...-wade-is-gone/

    I think Toobin is stirring the pot because he doesn't actually know that. Sort of like wanting the radical left to start screaming.


    I know I, and some others have been the brunt of some objections for our lack of feeling for the rape victim, but nothing about our abundance of feeling for the child, who has no say in this matter, and will ultimately pay with their life for that.

    Be that as it may, to each their own, and again ultimately SCOTUS will settle this for our country, like their decision or not.

    Bearing that in mind, it should also be noted, and each of us Christian, or not, needs to contemplate the following verses, as to why would God do such a thing.


    "Deu 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
    Deu 22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days. "

    There are several verses there in Deu. 22 that deal with rape cases, check them out.


    Also the 5% I mentioned earlier was from a couple of sites that might be on the liberal side of things. Last night on Fox they were saying 1%, of rape cases end in a pregnancy.
    That's great; just rape them and throw down 50 shekels and take heart in your bible sanctifying it.......

  28. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by smith357 View Post
    That's great; just rape them and throw down 50 shekels and take heart in your bible sanctifying it.......
    I just think you don't want to understand. It's not the 50 shekels, that's to the father, the rapist also had to marry the victim.

    And you really, really don't have a clue when you make a statement like "take heart in your bible sanctifying it".

    AS I have stated several times in just this thread, in so many words, believe what you want, it's fine with me. But yet you are hostile to me for believing what I want. You almost sound like a liberal there. And you should be careful because you are totting the liberal line in thinking only of the mother and her CHOICE, and not in the LIFE of the child. That's probably why they call one pro-choice, and the other pro-life.
    "Wise Men Still Seek Him"-bumper sticker

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  29. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by smith357 View Post
    That's great; just rape them and throw down 50 shekels and take heart in your bible sanctifying it.......
    BTW you should really take that up with the person who wrote it.-God
    "Wise Men Still Seek Him"-bumper sticker

    "Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other."-John Adams
    “The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own...."- Jeff Cooper, Art of the Rifle

  30. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by CaryC View Post
    I just think you don't want to understand. It's not the 50 shekels, that's to the father, the rapist also had to marry the victim.

    And you really, really don't have a clue when you make a statement like "take heart in your bible sanctifying it".

    AS I have stated several times in just this thread, in so many words, believe what you want, it's fine with me. But yet you are hostile to me for believing what I want. You almost sound like a liberal there. And you should be careful because you are totting the liberal line in thinking only of the mother and her CHOICE, and not in the LIFE of the child. That's probably why they call one pro-choice, and the other pro-life.
    Seems suspiciously close to the quorans baby-marriage ideas............ I doubt it would make it better for many rape victims to be forced to marry their rapist.

    But hey, do what you want as long as you are a man. I guess that's what you are saying.

    And I'm fine with you BELIEVING whatever you want - I just don't think it should be forced on others.

  31. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by smith357 View Post
    Seems suspiciously close to the quorans baby-marriage ideas............ I doubt it would make it better for many rape victims to be forced to marry their rapist.

    But hey, do what you want as long as you are a man. I guess that's what you are saying.

    And I'm fine with you BELIEVING whatever you want - I just don't think it should be forced on others.
    You're just wanting to be argumentative, not reasoning. So I'm done.
    "Wise Men Still Seek Him"-bumper sticker

    "Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other."-John Adams
    “The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own...."- Jeff Cooper, Art of the Rifle

  32. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaryC View Post
    You're just wanting to be argumentative, not reasoning. So I'm done.
    Gotta agree.

  33. #73
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    the republican party is to blame for this mess plain and simple
    follow my reasoning
    this whole issue could be decided with a constitutional amendment that bans abortion
    I think that has been discussed enough times and borders on adnasum
    now just when did the republican party have the power to end this genocide

    12 to 14 years ago.

    the controled the house
    they controled the senate
    they controled the white house
    and they controlled most of the state legislature and govenor ships enough to get the vote

    what did the sniviling whipms do.

    follow the money'
    send money so we can stop this'
    send money to elect me and I will stop this
    this can only be solved by electing the republicans to the house and the senate and the white house again

    it is a hugh cash cow for the republican

  34. #74
    The "heartbeat" laws are dangerous for doctors and pregnant women because if it isn't worded just right, then a woman has a natural miscarriage can be denied standard medical treatment to prevent sepsis (basically removing the fetus) if the heartbeat is still there even when the fetus is halfway down the birth canal.

    THERE count them THREE women are known to have DIED in this situation; one really famous and the doctors felt helpless to do anything in the face of laws that would have pulled their licenses and left them open to being jailed for life.

    There are also SERIOUS issues with very young girls being forced to give birth (and their babies); the mental health of ten years old may never recover and if she is small a baby may kill them both.

    I don't like abortions, I am delighted that modern medicine is coming up with many ways to help avoid them (hint telling people not to have sex has never worked, at least not on a macro level) but it is a medical decision and should be treated that way.

    Outright bans, especially even for incest or rape, risk reopening the underground abortion industry and all its horrors - I am probably the last generation for whom it was common to know people who died that way (or their relatives).

    Also, I am the sort of person that people come to with their issues and always have been; one thing I have noted over the decades is that many people believe they are against abortions in all situations.

    That almost always suddenly changes when it is THEIR daughter who is horribly attacked and raped and/or violated at age ten by a relative.

    Suddenly they can't find an abortionist fast enough and that was true even before it was legal!

    I'm sure there are exceptions to this, but honestly, I've even seen it repeatedly with the daughter has simply gotten pregnant by a boyfriend (she's almost always a good girl, which is why she didn't take protection with her on a date) but I digress; when it is THEIR 14-year-old daughter who "made a mistake" a heck of a lot of parents just want the problem to "go away."

    Note, not everyone acts this way but it is a lot more common than I ever realized when I was young; after I saw it four or five times I realized that a lot of what people say they believe and what they actually do in a crisis may be two totally different things.

    There are other issues but this post is long enough already...
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  35. #75
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    Evidently 33d, you’re a tad shaky on how an Amendment is ratified. The citizens of the states have to vote for it. That wasn’t going to happen even “12-14 years ago.”

  36. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Melodi View Post
    The "heartbeat" laws are dangerous for doctors and pregnant women because if it isn't worded just right, then a woman has a natural miscarriage can be denied standard medical treatment to prevent sepsis (basically removing the fetus) if the heartbeat is still there even when the fetus is halfway down the birth canal.

    THERE count them THREE women are known to have DIED in this situation; one really famous and the doctors felt helpless to do anything in the face of laws that would have pulled their licenses and left them open to being jailed for life.

    There are also SERIOUS issues with very young girls being forced to give birth (and their babies); the mental health of ten years old may never recover and if she is small a baby may kill them both.

    I don't like abortions, I am delighted that modern medicine is coming up with many ways to help avoid them (hint telling people not to have sex has never worked, at least not on a macro level) but it is a medical decision and should be treated that way.

    Outright bans, especially even for incest or rape, risk reopening the underground abortion industry and all its horrors - I am probably the last generation for whom it was common to know people who died that way (or their relatives).

    Also, I am the sort of person that people come to with their issues and always have been; one thing I have noted over the decades is that many people believe they are against abortions in all situations.

    That almost always suddenly changes when it is THEIR daughter who is horribly attacked and raped and/or violated at age ten by a relative.


    Suddenly they can't find an abortionist fast enough and that was true even before it was legal!

    I'm sure there are exceptions to this, but honestly, I've even seen it repeatedly with the daughter has simply gotten pregnant by a boyfriend (she's almost always a good girl, which is why she didn't take protection with her on a date) but I digress; when it is THEIR 14-year-old daughter who "made a mistake" a heck of a lot of parents just want the problem to "go away."

    Note, not everyone acts this way but it is a lot more common than I ever realized when I was young; after I saw it four or five times I realized that a lot of what people say they believe and what they actually do in a crisis may be two totally different things.

    There are other issues but this post is long enough already...
    Spot on

  37. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Olson View Post
    Evidently 33d, you’re a tad shaky on how an Amendment is ratified. The citizens of the states have to vote for it. That wasn’t going to happen even “12-14 years ago.”
    nothing shaky about it

  38. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melodi View Post
    The "heartbeat" laws are dangerous for doctors and pregnant women because if it isn't worded just right, then a woman has a natural miscarriage can be denied standard medical treatment to prevent sepsis (basically removing the fetus) if the heartbeat is still there even when the fetus is halfway down the birth canal.

    THERE count them THREE women are known to have DIED in this situation; one really famous and the doctors felt helpless to do anything in the face of laws that would have pulled their licenses and left them open to being jailed for life.

    There are also SERIOUS issues with very young girls being forced to give birth (and their babies); the mental health of ten years old may never recover and if she is small a baby may kill them both.

    I don't like abortions, I am delighted that modern medicine is coming up with many ways to help avoid them (hint telling people not to have sex has never worked, at least not on a macro level) but it is a medical decision and should be treated that way.

    Outright bans, especially even for incest or rape, risk reopening the underground abortion industry and all its horrors - I am probably the last generation for whom it was common to know people who died that way (or their relatives).

    Also, I am the sort of person that people come to with their issues and always have been; one thing I have noted over the decades is that many people believe they are against abortions in all situations.

    That almost always suddenly changes when it is THEIR daughter who is horribly attacked and raped and/or violated at age ten by a relative.

    Suddenly they can't find an abortionist fast enough and that was true even before it was legal!

    I'm sure there are exceptions to this, but honestly, I've even seen it repeatedly with the daughter has simply gotten pregnant by a boyfriend (she's almost always a good girl, which is why she didn't take protection with her on a date) but I digress; when it is THEIR 14-year-old daughter who "made a mistake" a heck of a lot of parents just want the problem to "go away."

    Note, not everyone acts this way but it is a lot more common than I ever realized when I was young; after I saw it four or five times I realized that a lot of what people say they believe and what they actually do in a crisis may be two totally different things.

    There are other issues but this post is long enough already...
    Melodi, your 3 women scenario sounds extremely rare and almost on par with the also rare (though not so extreme) tubal pregnancy. Never having heard of the birth canal/sepsis scenario, I can only assume abortion would be performed with the same legal and moral protection that was there, even before Roe/Wade and that is, if it looked like a mother will die and hence the baby as well, an abortion would be performed. The attempt to save BOTH would always be the norm until found otherwise.

    As far as a 10-year-old being too young physically to give birth, there is something called a "cesarian section." I agree, along with her mental state she wouldn't be mature enough to handle a live birth along with raising a child, obviously. Adoption would most definitely be suggested.

    Since we are talking about maturity though, how do you think her young mind would handle killing a baby?

    Of course, it will be told to her as all pro-abortion proponents tell themselves, that it was only a "blob, or tissue." They'd say, "It would be like taking out your tonsils, honey."

    That along with therapy will help for a while.....until she gets older.

    Even if she comes to peace about her rape, how traumatic will it be for her when later in science class she sees it was NOT "tonsil-like/blob/tissue" that was removed and then, see's her "cousin's/anybody's" baby sonogram so proudly flashed around? Will she wonder what her baby looked like and FELT as it was cut out from her? What's the likelihood she will experience a HUGE replay of delayed and regretful trauma all over again???

    But, I guess that will all be "handled" once more through the ever-watchful pro-abortion quasi-therapists, right?

    Of course, it's just my personal opinion but I think the upswing of all the new younger pro-lifers is coming from those women who not only woke up to what exactly abortion is but had that kind of "therapy" FAIL.

  39. #79
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    I have mixed emotions about the abortion issue for a variety of reasons, and I'm not about to jump into such a hot issue...too many heartfelt emotions on both sides.

    Having said that, one question I have always thought about asking those who so strongly and vocally oppose abortion for any/what ever reason is simply this - "How many children have you adopted?"

    The answers would be 'interesting', given how few people do adopt - and would likely include "I'm too old, too young, in poor health, can't afford it," etc., along with "available children to adopt are too old, too young, wrong gender, wrong race, mixed race, have special needs, have other health or emotional issues," etc.

    Enough said.
    Last edited by TxGal; 05-16-2019 at 02:00 PM. Reason: typo

  40. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by TxGal View Post
    I have mixed emotions about the abortion issue for a variety of reasons, and I'm not about to jump into such a hot issue...too many heartfelt emotions on both sides.

    Having said that, one question I have always thought about asking those who so strongly and vocally opposes abortion for any/what ever reason is simply this - "How many children have you adopted?"

    The answers would be 'interesting', given how few people do adopt - and would likely include "I'm too old, too young, in poor health, can't afford it," etc., along with "available children to adopt are too old, too young, wrong gender, wrong race, mixed race, have special needs, have other health or emotional issues," etc.

    Enough said.
    Great post

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