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ECON Is Gold Even A Recognizable Safe Haven Asset Anymore?
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dozdoats View Post
    Is Gold Even A Recognizable Safe Haven Asset Anymore?
    In a word, yes!
    If at first you don't secede, try, try again!

  2. #42
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    PMs will always be a safe-haven asset. They are NOT “investment instruments.”

  3. #43
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    Sorry DD, but again I must disagree. FRNs are worthless pieces of paper. This has always been true, clear back to the beginning of our country. Only when redeemed for PMs or property do they “convert” to something worthwhile. Some of the folks on this thread have a very skewed view of what “money” really is. They’ve obviously never read Atlas Shrugged.

    Better get that book and read it. Soonest.

  4. #44
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    We didn't HAVE FRNs at the beginning of our country. They didn't come along until 1913ish.

    If you can make it through Ayn Rand you can manage Vieira-

    https://constitution.org/mon/what_is_a_dollar.htm
    What Is A "Dollar"?
    An Historical Analysis Of The Fundamental Question In Monetary Policy
    by
    Edwin Vieira, Jr.
    The wonder of our time isn’t how angry we are at politics and politicians; it’s how little we’ve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Olson View Post
    PMs will always be a safe-haven asset. They are NOT “investment instruments.”
    If more people understood that they wouldn't get bent out of shape so much when the paper price is beaten down. They still have the same amount of ounces. That being said gold will significantly appreciate in the price of fiat at some point when confidence in the dollar is lost. But that just reflects the loss of purchasing power is all. A mania may indeed come at some point considering a piece of computer code called Bitcoin was selling for 19K not too long ago. At least with gold and silver you still have a bar or a coin in your hand.
    What is the lake of fire? What is it's purpose? Is the lake of fire eternal hell? Is there any hope of escape for those cast into this lake?
    http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html

  6. #46
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    Bill is a gold broker


    Opportunity knocks! - Bill Holter

    We ran this article last week for subscribers and are releasing it for the public this week. (We will then also re-run an article done last summer regarding junk silver.) Currently an anomaly exists that only a couple years ago could not have been imagined. 10 years ago it would have been considered an impossibility!

    Back in 2010, when gold traded around $1,000 per ounce, “numismatic” pre-1933 gold coins traded for huge premiums. This happened because there was fear the Obama administration might go the route of FDR and confiscate bullion. That did not happen, but we did get to see a precursor to what might be should (when?) confiscation become a reality.

    As a background, (and we will focus on pre-1933 $20 MS63 Liberties and MS64 Saint Gaudens), these were the “cutoff” grades in the past. It was at these grades where the premiums over spot gold took a huge leap from just one grading below. Just a couple of years ago, MS63 $20 Libs were $75-$150 higher than the MS62’s. Back in 2010, MS63 $20 Libs were “bid”, meaning dealers were willing to pay $1,800 while spot gold was only $1,000. Currently you could say the jumping off point to the highest grade numismatics is at the MS63 grade for Liberties and MS64 for Saints. The next grades higher carry much higher premiums. Please keep in mind, these grades of MS63 and MS64 are way up the totem pole and represent extremely high grading and thus rarity.

    As we told you last summer, premiums really compressed for the numismatics, particularly the MS60-62 range. These could be purchased for roughly the cost of a current year American gold eagle or Canadian maple leaf. Now, MS63 Libs and 64 Saints have seen premiums shrink to roughly that of eagles. This offers an incredible opportunity whether you are an outright buyer or want to swap current bullion into rare and uncirculated coin. Current pricing is stupid cheap!

    Why have premiums collapsed? Because since 2011, the bear market in precious metals has destroyed sentiment and created sellers who became worn out, just as a severe bear market in real estate might reduce or even wipe out premiums for waterfront vs. inland property. The premiums will once again expand but confidence and desire to own must occur for the premiums to begin to come back. Should a whiff of confiscation come about, good luck finding ANY product resembling the spot price of gold…

    What I am talking about here is positioning yourself in gold which we believe to be the ultimate financial lifeboat …but in a first-class seat without paying any additional fare to do so. Your downside is the price of spot gold, your upside is not quantifiable but very substantial based on history. In the event of confiscation fears or outright confiscation of bullion, your “coin collection” could become priceless. These are 100+year old, uncirculated and individually graded, documented and individually packaged coins considered as “collectibles”.

    If you do not own gold and are looking to enter, these higher-grade collectibles are the preferred seat without the higher fare. If you already own bars or current sovereign bullion, you can swap at very little cost into a first-class seat. When retail demand does re-emerge, the spread between a MS62 $20 Lib versus a MS63 $20 Lib may move from the current ridiculous $20-$30 to $100 or many, many multiples. The time to purchase anything of high quality is when the entire sector is on a fire sale. That time is now!

    If this is something you’d like to explore, please contact me at bholter@hotmail.com. I will be happy to discuss this with you and explain all the logistics involved.

    Standing watch,

    Bill Holter

    Holter-Sinclair collaboration


    Bill is a gold broker

    https://www.jsmineset.com/2019/05/08...nity-knocks-2/
    What is the lake of fire? What is it's purpose? Is the lake of fire eternal hell? Is there any hope of escape for those cast into this lake?
    http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html

  7. #47
    All these gold schemes assume a functioning society. Why do people think that? Real "gold" may turn out to be ammo for AR15's. Somebody might be willing to trade his youngest daughter (metaphor there but not by much) to get 100 rds.
    "The misfortune of many is the consolation of fools" Ancient proverb

  8. #48
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    Agreed Troke

    Tangible Assets are a better investment for SHTF.

    The spot price of gold will not be available until civilization re-emerges from the cataclysm. You can't eat gold.
    WARNING!!!

    My use of pronouns will offend faggots, the mentally ill, and the gender confused.

  9. #49
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    You don't need a spot price for gold to have value. All you need is two people to agree to a trade.

  10. #50
    Gold sells for production cost so if production cost comes down so will gold. Hyperinflation but will make the gold bugs happy because they can see their investment going up in a currency that is going down in value, however.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adino View Post
    So how does one pay off debt with a debt instrument?

    frn's are debt not an asset.

    There is a fundamental misunderstanding of what 'debt' and 'assets' are.

    This is intentional on the part of the money master, oligarchic owned, FOR PROFIT, PRIVATE, INCORPORATED (NOT GOVERNMENTAL) central banks.

    frn's are not lazy. On that part you are correct. frn's are busy indebting you and all who hold and depend on them.

    frn's are a commodity exactly like gold. They are controlled by a cartel exactly the same way OPEC operates and for the same reasons - to make its shareholders profit.

    frn's are an asset only from the perspective of the issuers - the federal reserve and its shareholders. They are a liability to everyone who is not a fed shareholder.

    If one does not understand the basic fundamentals, and the actual definition of what 'assets' and 'liabilities' are it is easy to convince someone that what they have and hold is something other than what it really is. Just like the American colonists convinced native Americans glass beads were actually tangible assets and currency.

    All that said, the paradigm of those who consider frn's to be an asset as opposed to debt is so strongly cemented that most will think I'm the one that has no clue.

    Qui bono?
    Respectfully, my husband and I have built an incredibly successful business understanding the current market. And it wasn’t built with PMs. And we’ve taken the fruits of that successful business and built additional streams of income that have nothing to do with PMs. In fact, I have watched people go broke even saying they had PMs because PMs are not what fuels and drives the current environment we live in.

    “Value” and “valuation” of an asset is in the eye of the beholder. In today’s environment an asset needs to work or it is nothing but a pretty bauble or collectible. If you enjoy the side of that shiny stuff sitting on the shelf of your safe then that is fine. There’s actually nothing wrong with that. We have some. But all it does is sit there. All it is is a collectible that will be passed down to the next generation. In truth it is unlikely that we will ever see any benefit from the PMs and from a certain perspective we wasted the other assets that we exchanged for them. Our heirs on the other hand will likely benefit in someway from the PMs. On the other hand, perhaps not if they don’t sell it for whatever the value is that they can get for it at the time.

    My point is, that PMs should never be the sum total of your financial plan. As a matter fact they should come only after you have secured everything else. Life insurance is more valuable in the long run then some ounces of gold. Even though they amount to the same thing. They will bring no value until you’re dead. This is not the same world as it was a century ago. When PMs were safe bet. And in the aftermath of a catastrophe, you cannot eat them wear them or use them as shelter. And since no one else can either, no one is really going to want to exchange what is an asset to them for something that is just going to be shiny and valueless in that time period.

    If you want to exchange working assets for nonworking assets, if you have the spread in your finances, then do it. There’s nothing wrong with that. Just realize all you’re doing is buying what amounts to life insurance. Your heirs will be the one to benefit not you.
    Find my free fiction stories here.

    "Isn’t it interesting that the same people who laugh at science fiction listen to weather forecasts and economists?” - Kelvin R. Throop III

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dozdoats View Post
    We didn't HAVE FRNs at the beginning of our country. They didn't come along until 1913ish.

    If you can make it through Ayn Rand you can manage Vieira-

    https://constitution.org/mon/what_is_a_dollar.htm
    What Is A "Dollar"?
    An Historical Analysis Of The Fundamental Question In Monetary Policy
    by
    Edwin Vieira, Jr.
    Sorry, but I have exactly zero interest in dreck like that. I don’t read dry-ass crap for entertainment. But for you, whatever floats your boat. Further, there has been “paper money” since the beginning of the Republic.

  13. #53
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    Just realize all you’re doing is buying what amounts to life insurance.

    Actually, it's MONEY insurance.

    But I'm not exactly walking around twisting arms to make people buy it. It would be nice if more people understood the risks so many assume happily with their IMO misplaced confidence in the FED, but personal decisions are personal decisions. And the results are owned just like the decisions.
    The wonder of our time isn’t how angry we are at politics and politicians; it’s how little we’ve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  14. #54
    Buy coffee as people will need a good cup before long.

    Last month in Venezuela’s capital city of Caracas, a cup of coffee would have set you back 2 million bolivars. That’s up from only 2,300 bolivars 12 months ago, meaning the price of a cup of joe has jumped nearly 87,000 percent, according to Bloomberg’s Café Con Leche Index. And you thought Starbucks was expensive.


    http://www.usfunds.com/investor-libr.../#.XNNynthS_IU

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathy in FL View Post
    Respectfully, my husband and I have built an incredibly successful business understanding the current market. And it wasn’t built with PMs. And we’ve taken the fruits of that successful business and built additional streams of income that have nothing to do with PMs. In fact, I have watched people go broke even saying they had PMs because PMs are not what fuels and drives the current environment we live in.

    “Value” and “valuation” of an asset is in the eye of the beholder. In today’s environment an asset needs to work or it is nothing but a pretty bauble or collectible. If you enjoy the side of that shiny stuff sitting on the shelf of your safe then that is fine. There’s actually nothing wrong with that. We have some. But all it does is sit there. All it is is a collectible that will be passed down to the next generation. In truth it is unlikely that we will ever see any benefit from the PMs and from a certain perspective we wasted the other assets that we exchanged for them. Our heirs on the other hand will likely benefit in someway from the PMs. On the other hand, perhaps not if they don’t sell it for whatever the value is that they can get for it at the time.

    My point is, that PMs should never be the sum total of your financial plan. As a matter fact they should come only after you have secured everything else. Life insurance is more valuable in the long run then some ounces of gold. Even though they amount to the same thing. They will bring no value until you’re dead. This is not the same world as it was a century ago. When PMs were safe bet. And in the aftermath of a catastrophe, you cannot eat them wear them or use them as shelter. And since no one else can either, no one is really going to want to exchange what is an asset to them for something that is just going to be shiny and valueless in that time period.

    If you want to exchange working assets for nonworking assets, if you have the spread in your finances, then do it. There’s nothing wrong with that. Just realize all you’re doing is buying what amounts to life insurance. Your heirs will be the one to benefit not you.
    You are describing currency and success with it. Currency and real money are different and that is the crux of the continued disagreement on the topic.

    Respectfully, there was an entire economy based on wampum. Also a currency with no intrinsic value. There were plenty of native Americans that made a respectful living on glass bead currency. Just like you and your husband. Currency has trade value not intrinsic value.

    Intrinsic value makes real money.

  16. #56
    Macleod: "Western Democracies Are Little More Than A Sham"

    by Tyler Durden
    Sat, 05/11/2019 - 08:10

    Authored by Alasdair Macleod via GoldMoney.com,

    In Praise Of Hayek's Masterwork

    Friedrich von Hayek first published The Road to Serfdom in 1944. His book was subsequently popularised by a condensed version in The Reader’s Digest. This article re-examines Hayek’s theme in the context of today’s economics and politics to see what lessons we can learn from it, and whether personal freedom can survive.

    Why personal freedom is important and the treat to it

    Destroy personal freedom, and ultimately the state destroys itself. No state succeeds in the long run by taking away freedom from individuals, other than those strictly necessary for guaranteeing individualism. And unless the state recognises this established fact its destruction will be both certain and brutal. Alternatively, a state that steps back from the edge of collectivism and reinstates individual freedoms will survive. This is the theoretical advantage offered by democracy, when the people can peacefully rebel against the state, compared with dictatorships when they cannot.

    Nevertheless, democracies are rarely free from the drift into collectivism. They socialise our efforts by taxing profits excessively and limiting free market competition, which is the driving force behind the creation and accumulation of personal wealth and the advancement of the human condition. At least democracies periodically offer the electorate an opportunity to throw out a government sliding into socialism. A Reagan or Thatcher can then materialise to save the nation by reversing or at least stemming the tide of collectivism.

    Dictatorships are different, often ending in revolution, the condition in which chaos thrives. If the governed are lucky, out of chaos emerges freedom; much more likely they face more intense suppression and even civil war. We remember dictatorships through a figurehead, a Hitler or Mussolini. But these are just the leaders in a party of like-minded statists.

    When comparing dictatorships to democracy we think in terms of black and white, which allow one to express concepts clearly. But reality always comes in shades of grey. Far from being always bad, dictatorships can be successful if they permit individuals to retain the freedom to improve their lives and accumulate the benefits of their success. This is the freedom to compete, make and keep profits. A dictatorship on these lines is mercantile, offsetting the absence of political freedom by allowing personal freedom to develop within the confines of state direction. This is the current situation in China and Russia.

    Modern democracy is usually flawed, a cover for the state to rob Peter to pay Paul to the point where Peter is impoverished or refuses to play the game and both the state and Paul are then bereft of funds and purpose. This is the condition to which Western democracy has evolved in modern welfare states. We can all sympathise with the underlying concept: there are those in life who through circumstances fall on hard times, and if they are given a helping hand, will eventually benefit society as a whole. But it becomes counterproductive when it discourages the individual from returning to productive society. Not only is the individual’s contribution to society lost, but he becomes a burden upon it.

    For its revenue the state relies on the production of many Peters. The consequence is even more Pauls. The cost of welfare increases with its scope. It becomes welfare for all, with everyone having a right to it. Each Peter ends up funding ninety-nine Pauls. This is Mediterranean Europe today, and perhaps to a lesser extent Britain and America.

    With compulsion, the state no longer protects the rights of the individual. Democracy has permitted the modern state to evolve into a separate entity no longer the servant of the population.
    The cross-over between democracy and dictatorships

    In economic terms, a high-spending statist democracy is indistinguishable from a dictatorship. Instead of promoting free markets, both create the conditions where commercial success is achieved by influencing the government. The difference is in the form this corruption takes. In the case of a high-spending democratic government, obtaining control over the regulatory process is vital for a business to secure market advantage and keeping competitors at bay. In a dictatorship corruption is usually more direct.

    So long as free markets are not completely prohibited by the state, this crony capitalism thrives. From banks to pharmaceuticals, it is the way business is done today. It angers ordinary people, who are then persuaded by support-seeking politicians that big business is motivated by profit without social consideration, and that the socialising policies of the government are the solution. As the Austrian economist Friedrich von Hayek put it, the people are now embarking on the road to serfdom.

    The Road to Serfdom was about the cross-over between democracy and dictatorships. Hayek wrote his famous book in 1942-44 (it was first published in 1944), drawing on the example of Germany’s contemporary experience. He showed how the organisation of a war-time economy by the state, in Germany’s case the First World War, becomes a template for central planning in peacetime. While Hayek showed that a government’s central planning of a war-time economy forms the template for peacetime central planning, peacetime planning also develops on its own.

    The planners always promise a utopian view of the future. People are easily persuaded that planning for the benefit of everyone is an advancement on the sole motivation of profit. However, disagreements arise on what plan is best, reflected in the split between different political parties. The planners from different factions all have plans but no unity of purpose. The people disagree as well. What is needed is government propaganda to dispel disagreement and unite the people behind the government’s preferred plan.

    The propaganda machine goes into action. Information is selectively fed into it to obtain public support for government policies. Statistics are manipulated to promote success and obscure failure. Any reporter who does not cooperate with the government line is excluded from the planners’ briefings, giving his rival journalists an advantage. He conforms. The use of the press to support state planning becomes increasingly important in covering up its failures.

    The failures of central planning proliferate. The propaganda machine cannot cover up all the evidence, and the planners respond with even more planning, yet more suppression of personal freedom. There is no turning back. They argue it is not their fault, but the fault of the people failing to cooperate and comply with government policies. They argue that the people are uneducated and not responsible enough to have a say in central planning. What’s needed is someone strong enough to force the plans through. At the same time, ordinary people want a strong man to kick out the useless bureaucrats and make the plans work.

    A new leader emerges. The democratic establishment see his function as temporary. When order in the planning process is restored, he will no longer be needed. But this is the cross-over point between democracy and a dictatorship. He is a Chavez, a Putin, a Lenin, a Mussolini, a Hitler. It was the latter fascists that were perhaps freshest in Hayek’s mind, but he was also fully aware of Lenin and Stalin.

    Not all strongmen emerging from the chaos of planning failures turn out to be a Lenin or a Hitler. Those who follow a mercantilist path, contemporary examples being Russia’s Putin and China’s Xi, are careful to allow individuals the freedom to run their affairs without the heavy hand of the state. But they are also careful not to let democracy undermine their control: the people cannot have both and opponents to the state are ruthlessly dealt with.

    Anyone intending to be Hayek’s strong leader promises to make order out of bureaucratic chaos. Those on the far left (in the UK, Corbin and McDonnell, in the US Bernie Sanders) believe the political solution to growing economic chaos is to take collectivism to a higher plain. Free-marketeers are derided by the planners as being antisocial, profit-seeking right-wing extremists. If Corbin and Sanders are to succeed in their desire for office, they must wish for an economic or political failure that damns capitalism and will see them swept into office.

    Then what happens?

    We will continue with Hayek’s narrative. The new leader uses the chaos that led to his election as the pretext to consolidate his power. Opposition is not permitted, because it restricts the leader’s ability to resolve matters. With dissenters excluded, democracy becomes little more than a propaganda exercise. The leader only permits people to vote for him and his party. To encourage national unity in the face of deteriorating economic conditions, a minority in society is made a scapegoat. With Hitler it was the relatively prosperous Jews. Corbin’s apparent dislike of Britain’s Jewish community is striking a raw nerve.

    In truth, we cannot forecast what class or creed will be tomorrow’s scapegoat. It will depend on the nation, the strongman and his immediate supporters, their religious beliefs perhaps, and how rapidly planning undermines the economy. Wealthy communities with wealth for the state to acquire will be at risk. But one thing is for sure, increasing numbers of secret police will be deployed to supress all opposition. Dissent is dealt with ruthlessly.

    Hayek went on to detail what we have subsequently seen, in Africa with Mugabe, in Venezuela with Chavez and then Maduro. These are the most egregious of many contemporary examples, mainly confined to developing nations. Now the mature economies in Europe, of America and Britain are drifting that way.

    The current regimes in Russia and China are different, having become post-Hayekian political economies. They are mercantilist in nature. Individualism is allowed to flourish, with collectivism limited. But for these regimes to survive a wider global Hayekian transition from democracy to a lasting mercantile dictatorship, they will need to give up money-printing and return to sound money.

    This is our next topic.

    Sound money is central to personal freedom

    It has been several generations since individuals have been free to choose their own money, and people have become conditioned to state currencies. However, total control of money issuance gives enormous powers to the state which it exercises at the expense of ordinary people. In the past, the state had to face the limitations of sound money. Sound money puts a brake on the ambitions of the state. A state currency can be issued at will, which means that in nominal currency terms the potential transfer of wealth to the state through monetary inflation is infinite.

    All recorded hyperinflations have been with state currencies. No politician can resist the temptations of the printing press. Politicians even justify currency debasement, saying it benefits the people by stimulating production and consumption. It becomes fundamental to the planning process, the management of the business cycle. What is not mentioned is the existing stock of money, being debased, buys less. And it is not a business cycle any more, if that ever existed, but the consequences of a cycle of credit and monetary expansion.

    By issuing currency, the political class finances its ambitions without the need for raising taxes. But since there are no distinguishing features on new money compared with the old (and today it is mostly electronic anyway), the users of state currency are none the wiser. Inevitably, when more money chases the same quantity of goods, its purchasing power declines, reflected in rising prices. Governments then supress the symptoms of monetary inflation by regulating prices, or by corrupting the statistics. But so long as markets exist, these attempts always end in failure.

    It is this failure to control the effects of monetary debasement that invalidates the concept of the state issuing its own currency. This is why people transacting with each other naturally select gold and silver as money – they can be sure of its value.

    The monetary role of the state originally was to issue recognisable coins in gold or silver of uniform weight. When banks began to issue notes backed by gold deposits, central banks soon took over that function. They then swapped the commercial banks’ gold for balance-sheet deposits at the central bank on the promise the deposits would be repayable in gold.

    Acting on behalf of the state, this was how central banks monopolised the national stocks of gold. In time, they progressively removed the promise to honour payment in gold. In the United States this happened in two steps. Ordinary people and corporations lost the freedom to own gold in 1933, then in 1971 the Americans ceased gold payments entirely.

    The Americans then began a campaign to remove gold from the world’s monetary system, promoting the dollar as its replacement. The motivation was clear: the American government took to itself unlimited power to issue fiat dollars. It has used this power freely ever since.

    The power to issue unlimited amounts of fiat dollars will eventually destroy the currency. The time taken for that destruction is not under the control of the government, but of its users, both domestic and foreign. We know the dollar will continually lose purchasing power so long as it is a pure fiat currency. We can also be reasonably sure that the speed of its attenuation will accelerate, particularly when the US Government attempts to finance its escalating costs in a future credit crisis. And we know a credit crisis will happen as a consequence of aggressive monetary expansion earlier in the cycle.

    Every state has a fiat currency. Every state is convinced of the benefits of monetary inflation. Every fiat currency is in danger of obliteration.
    And as the collapse of fiat currencies progress, populations will become increasingly discontent with their planners. The demand for strong leadership, by which we mean successful planners and their parties, will see many of them elected. Most will become increasingly tyrannical. Only very few will respect the individual and personal freedom.

    Money has become central to the Hayekian road to serfdom and the destruction of free markets and democracy, which is bound to lead us all into statist servitude.
    Different outcomes for different states

    Europe

    The developed countries most blind to the dangers of losing democracy by drifting into totalitarianism appear to be in the European Union. The invention of the euro has, temporarily at least, prevented the weaker member states from drifting into hyperinflation and government bankruptcy. Political discontent is mounting in these nations, and the Brussels super-state is supressing democracy. The centralisation of the currency has taken away from these states their political control over the currency as a means of inflationary financing, but that is now vested in a centralised system. Their economic collapse and drift into extremism has only been delayed.

    The cost to the rest of the Europe is a monetary hyperinflation of the euro: it has already started, only prices have yet to reflect it. The Brussels strongmen holding it all together are doing so by supressing dissent, just as Hayek predicted. Instead of a single identifiable leader, they are hidden within the entire Brussels bureaucracy. It is, perhaps, an interim arrangement, leading to the chaotic conditions of a financial and economic crisis, from which a true European leader will hope to emerge. If you want a role model for the EU, look no further than Bismarck, who unified Germany in the nineteenth century, and then employed inflationary financing before the First World War.

    United Kingdom

    The British electorate voted in a referendum to escape from their politicians’ grand European scheme. It has succeeded in exposing the level of separation between the state’s planned objectives and the wishes of its people. Brexit has also shown how the state strongly resists democracy. This has discredited the Conservative government, enhancing the hopes of a Marxist clique in the Labour Party. Messrs Corbin and McDonnell are actively plotting for the chaos that will lead them into power. They then hope to follow in the footsteps of Lenin, Castro and Chavez towards a communist utopia.

    United states

    America is fighting decay. The wise strategic planners of the past have been replaced by men in the deep state who above all fear decline. The public rebelled against the collectivism of the Democrats by electing President Trump, but it is becoming clear the public has only swapped one statist for another.

    Trump quickly fell in with the deep statists and their war games. This is another central proposition of Hayek’s road to serfdom. But for Trump and his administration, war, tacit or otherwise, is not being pursued successfully and his trade protectionism risks driving America into a deepening recession.

    A president elected by the people for the people and not the established state is turning out to be increasing dependent on monetary inflation, the transfer of wealth from the people to the state. Trump has tried to reverse the trend into planning and socialism, but basic economics tells us he has made the government’s future funding crisis worse. By the laws of unintended consequences, he has increased the likelihood of a future president returning to the path of collectivism.

    Japan

    Japan appears to be broadly immune to these Hayekian influences. Despite monetary inflation, people increase their savings, reducing the impact on prices and guaranteeing a trade surplus. For the moment, Japan is blessed with a society which is ordered and does not rebel. The conditions that lead to a dictator do not yet appear to be present.

    Asia’s two super-powers

    Over thirty years ago, the dictatorships of China and Russia faced a political and economic collapse and have emerged as mercantilist dictatorships. If they are wise, they will soon discard the inflationary practices of the West and return to sound money before it undermines their mercantilism. If they do this and let free markets work, they will increase their economic strength and improve the standard of living for their ordinary people. The leadership of these two nations show signs of understanding this point.
    Conclusions

    With Russia and China being the only two major economic powers in their current form capable of surviving the political chaos that lies on our road to serfdom, the creed of democracy in government will probably die for many generations. Eventually, we could be asked to choose between individual freedom and democracy, the model currently employed by Russia and China. The proposition will be that only a strong unaccountable administration can control the welfare demands of the majority. We will be told to get on with our lives and not to interfere in politics: we can only vote for a one-party state.

    It would be a cultural shock, coming after the collapse of fiat currencies. But as we are seeing increasingly, Western democracies are little more than a sham. But it is difficult to see that the systemic and economic crisis, which we all face, will eventually allow us to return to both democracy and personal freedom.

    That was Hayek’s underlying point in his Road to Serfdom.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...ttle-more-sham

  17. #57
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    Gold, Shiny and Useless (ish)

    Gold – a common metal used for jewellery, coins, electronics and dentistry. Humans have had a fascination with gold throughout millennia, since it was first used for coins in around 560 BC.

    When it comes to investing however, gold is simply a commodity and the value of it is purely driven by supply and demand at any given point in time – it is not a long-term strategy for ultimate wealth creation.

    A brief history should explain why investing in gold is a fool’s errand.

    In 1934, it was made illegal for Americans to own gold. The government confiscated all private ownership of gold for the sum of $27 per ounce immediately revaluing it at $35 per ounce. This remained the case until President Nixon unlocked the chains on gold trading in 1971, with the subsequent price of gold steadily rising to $197 per ounce in 1974, before declining back to $100 per ounce by 1976.

    By contrast, the same $27 invested in the S&P500 (considered a proxy for the global stock market) in 1934 would have been worth approximately $540 in 1976, even taking into account temporary market declines of some 47% across 1973 and 1974, in percentage terms, the average rise in the price of gold over this 42-year period was approximately 3.16% per annum, whilst the S&P500 yielded an average return of approximately 7.39% compound.

    I know which of these I would consider as a ‘safe-haven’ for the purchasing power of my money. Money can only be considered future purchasing power.

    No inherent return for owning gold.

    Gold ‘investing’ is pandering to your emotions and not an intelligent strategy to build considerable wealth over a meaningful period of time. You’re not rewarded in any way for owning gold, there’s no inherent income stream due to the owners, we therefore consider it a gamble and not an investment.

    If you are seeking to build, retain and grow the purchasing power of your wealth, which is the only real objective, you must avoid the gold rush. Be warned however, as there are those who will tell you that gold is a good hedge against high levels of inflation – and this may even be the case in extreme circumstances. It’s very hard with foresight to predict when this perfect storm of high inflation will be upon us and for you to have moved (before the price spikes) a portion of your assets into gold. I therefore urge you to see gold as nothing more than another distraction to your long-term wealth creation strategy. We invest in what has always worked over meaningful periods of time – not what has sometimes worked but has been ultimately disastrous in the long-run.

    https://www.mavenadviser.com/blogcontent/gold

  18. #58
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    Then why are central banks still buying gold?

    ================================

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=-qFnCSDYRWw
    We Will Have One Chance To Take Down The Central Banks: Bill Holter
    RT 35:13

    X22Report Spotlight
    Published on May 11, 2019
    Subscribe 143K
    Today's Guest: Bill Holter
    Website: Jim Sinclair's MineSet
    The wonder of our time isn’t how angry we are at politics and politicians; it’s how little we’ve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  19. #59
    Gold is a benchmark. A foundation. The rock that a fair and true currency has been tied to in the past and is then was the vary definition of money/currency.

    If it ever again becomes the rock of a foundation again, then what's the definition of a savings account payable in gold interest.... thinking that would be a investment.

    I know, it may never happen. But man plans, God laughs. Stuff happens.

  20. #60
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    Central Banks Are Ditching the Dollar for Gold

    Graphics at the link-
    ===============

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...est-since-2013

    Bloomberg
    Central Banks Are Ditching the Dollar for Gold
    By Rupert Rowling
    May 2, 2019 12:00 AM EDT
    Banks bought 145.5 tons in first quarter: World Gold Council
    Council expects central bank demand to stay strong this year

    First-quarter gold purchases by central banks, led by Russia and China, were the highest in six years as countries diversify their assets away from the U.S. dollar.

    Global gold reserves rose 145.5 tons in the first quarter, a 68 percent increase from a year earlier, the World Gold Council said Thursday in a report. Russia remains the largest buyer as the nation reduces its U.S. Treasury holdings as part of a de-dollarization drive.

    “We’ve seen a continuation of the strong demand from central banks,” said Alistair Hewitt, head of market intelligence at the World Gold Council. “We’re expecting another good year for central bank purchases, although I’ll be pleasantly surprised if they are to match the level seen in 2018.”

    Going for Gold
    The world's central banks bought more gold than any first quarter for six years

    Source: World Gold Council

    As well as regular buyers such as Kazakhstan and Turkey, the first quarter also saw Ecuador adding to its reserves for the first time since 2014, plus sizable purchases by Qatar and Colombia, the council said. The buyers are dominated by countries looking to reduce their dollar dependency, and are typically nations with a lower share of reserves in gold than Western European countries.

    Central bank purchases have been a key support for gold, helping to offset lower demand from bar and coin investors as well as from industrial users of the metal. Gold has lost 1 percent so far this year, and was trading at about $1,270 an ounce in London on Thursday.
    Inflows into exchange-traded funds backed by gold during January have been wiped out over the rest of the year, with ETF levels now at their lowest in four months.

    On the supply side, World Gold Council revised its estimates for the contribution of small-scale, “artisanal,” miners, following a reassessment by its primary data provider Metals Focus Ltd. The sector is estimated to account for 15 to 20 percent of global gold mine production.

    In countries such as Zimbabwe, small-scale miners account for more than half the gold production and are a vital part of the economy. Under new guidelines from the London Bullion Market Association, such miners may have a tougher time selling their gold legitimately because some of their haul could be classified as “blood gold” -- produced outside any safety or environmental rules and possibly contributing to such crimes as child labor and slavery.
    The wonder of our time isn’t how angry we are at politics and politicians; it’s how little we’ve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  21. #61
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    I know it's drifting the thread, but is anyone watching Bitcoin? The price has doubled in 3 months while gold has been doing nothing for 3 years.
    I'd rather be paranoid, prepped and wrong than be irrationally happy, frivolous and screwed.

  22. #62
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    Bump for exposure!
    I'd rather be paranoid, prepped and wrong than be irrationally happy, frivolous and screwed.

  23. #63
    Will gold reach 10K during the next crash or will it go down to 250?
    3 Answers

    Kim Iskyan
    Kim Iskyan, Co-Founder & Publisher, Stansberry Churchouse Research
    Answered Nov 16, 2016 · Author has 206 answers and 1.9m answer views

    Gold won’t go to $250 – ever. And it might go to $10,000 – though no time soon.

    The rise and fall of market prices – of any asset – often display patterns that repeat over the years. And we could be seeing that happen with gold prices.

    In the 1970s, gold rose from a low of $35 per ounce in 1971, to a peak of $180 in late 1974. From there gold experienced a correction, falling nearly 40 percent to $110 in August 1976. But from that low, gold mounted an historic rally. By June 1978 it was back to its previous high. Then gold went nearly parabolic, with a frenzied surge to $850 in January 1980.

    It’s fascinating to see that the current gold bull market shares a very similar pattern – to this point – of the ‘70s gold market (through the recent lows of the gold price).

    • 1970s: $35 in 1971 to $180 in 1974 (414 percent gain)

    • More recently: $280 in 2000 to $1,888 in August of 2011 (574 percent gain)

    • 1970s: Correction 1974-76 $197 to $110 (44 percent loss)

    • More recently: Correction 2011-15 $1,888 to $1,056 (44 percent loss)

    Gold is currently about 16 percent above its November 2015 low. If today’s pattern repeats that of the 70s, gold would peak at around $6,800 over the next three or four years. The chart below compares the percent change in gold prices of the two bull markets, 1970s vs 2000s.

    If history repeats itself, a huge jump in gold prices is coming.

    In the current bull market, gold reached an all-time high in August of 2011 of $1,888, but fell to a low of $1,056 in November 2015. Is it possible that the November 2015 low marked the end of the correction phase of another long-term gold bull market? Will $6,800 gold become a reality over the next few years?

    It’s possible. But to soar like in the late 70s, gold will have to move into the “mania phase.” This is where gold investors lose contact with economic reality, and chase prices ever higher in a feedback loop of soaring prices, “new era” thinking and greed. Think Tulip Mania in the 17th century, internet stocks in 2000, and Chinese stocks last year.

    In 1979, a second oil spike after years of global energy inflation, in conjunction with global political instability, sent gold investors into a final buying panic which ultimately led to the January 1980 peak in gold prices.

    A similar type of economic shock could be the trigger for another massive spike in gold prices.

    So, is it probable that gold will repeat the historic gains of the 1970s? No. Is it a legitimate possibility? Yes. Conditions are favorable for gold… and getting more favorable by the day.

    There are, of course, other very good reasons to own gold besides the potential for big price gains. Zero and negative interest rates, market bubbles, China and the Muslim world lining up to buy gold, the Brexit aftermath and market uncertainty over the new President Trump will all support higher gold prices.

    You can read all about why you should include gold in your investment portfolio in a special report I’ve prepared. You can download your copy here.

    I write about Asia, energy, investing, personal finance and how they all connect here… you can sign up for my free daily e-letter, the Truewealth Asian Investment Daily, on the website or by clicking here.
    1.9k views · View 8 Upvoters
    Related Questions
    More Answers Below

    Will the gold price go up during the next 12 months?
    Would gold mining stocks go down if there was a stock market crash, or would it shoot up?
    Why does the price of gold go up when the stock market goes down?
    Will women (especially Indian) still be as fascinated by gold jewelry if the price of gold crashes down to less than 10k/10gm, within a week?
    Can gold rates go down in 2018?

    Andrew Grimm
    Andrew Grimm
    Answered Dec 16, 2016 · Author has 1.8k answers and 1.8m answer views

    Some people should really defer to logic when it comes to commodities.

    I hear all sorts of wild predictions on the price of gold and what it will amount to and what it can become because of X

    Here are some hard to understand things called REALITY.

    Gold will never have a undercut baseline (in other words ridiculously low per ounce figures)

    It sells by the gram into jewellery and investment .. and is watered down .. mixed with things and hammered out into gold leaf, crumbled into paints for antiques and worn on weddings in India in ceremony.

    So there would come a time at the lower end of the market when people who purchase for either jewellery or investment at the gram level would step in because the price was too good not to refuse.

    Its use in tech is minimal as all you need is a thin wire coating on the strips for best conduction, so there isnt much there ever. Ever see the quantities they talk about for recovery and making an ounce of gold from it? LOTS of PC boards go into an ounce .. so thats not going to push the price.

    It has a continued demand level that fluctuates but never really goes insane.

    To talk about gold in relation to pre-fed terms is lunacy because WE DONT DEAL IN THE SAME TERMS.

    Its no longer used as an actual currency and when it was you got paid in COPPER and SILVER and RARELY GOLD. So it had a different set of values .. and a whole different meter for conducting transactions.

    Is it historically overvalued or undervalued?

    In historical terms as to its purchasing power in relational sack of weighted commodities .. it purchases a lot less than it ever did historically. BUT the sack of commodities has changed in value too .. i mean .. who would pay the equivalent of 60 dollars for a full cooked chicken today? More like 8–20 ! Same with eggs milk and bread !

    On a comparison between silver and gold (again historical) is difficult because SILVER is much undervalued as to what it used to be .. but again .. it is no longer used in several places where it used to be needed .. no more silver nitrate in the camera industry, or any fabrication into silver plate or sterling silver objects. The construction of goods in precious metals is now a rare event and the idea of dinner table accessories very last century.

    Does it have room as a holding against either inflation or rapid currency destabilization? YES because it is a commodity that holds SOME value and is respected across most countries without question. But as a buffer against inflation or currency depreciation it still holds only a RELATIVE value and not a hyperinflated value .. only proportionate.

    If you had sat on your gold from the time that the Bretton Woods agreements took hold (1944 at an agreed 35 dollars per ounce) till now you’d be sitting on a very similar commodity with a very similar position. It wouldnt have gone totally spectacular ever (not allowing for the brief Bunker hunt speculation where both silver and gold went to crazy peaks). It has been a mildly fluctuating commodity with mild movements and steady demand.

    There would have been better buys, better trades .. better stocks .. better investments overall.

    Gold is recoverable and recyclable .. unlike things like silver .. where it can actually be lost in production and utility.

    To drive to a high point of speculation you would need little or no confidence in the currency and a situation of highly uncontrolled demand. This would not occur as when gold is manipulated too much .. the goverment steps in and legislates.

    If you think that this scenario is implausible this is EXACTLY how the Bunker Hunt scenario got watered down … with eventual preventative legislation.

    It is about time you understood your commodity before you provide a reason for immense speculative variation beyond reason.
    578 views
    Jim Watkins
    Jim Watkins, Made almost every investing mistake there is to make - learned a lot that way.
    Answered Nov 15, 2016 · Author has 8k answers and 6.1m answer views

    Neither is very likely. Over the long run gold tends to maintain its value. In the 1600s an ounce of gold would buy you a good suit of clothes. Today it would as well. For Gold to go to $250/oz. the prices of things in general would have to contract by a factor of 5 or 6. This doesn't seem very likely. For the price of Gold to go to $10,000/oz. the price of things in general would have to go up by a factor of 8 or so. This will probably happen given enough time, but it isn't likely to happen within the next ten to twenty years. The next financial collapse is likely to happen within that time.


    https://www.quora.com/Will-gold-reac...go-down-to-250

  24. #64
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    Will gold reach 10K during the next crash or will it go down to 250?


    An ounce of gold today will buy you about what it did 100 years ago. It hasn't really increased in value nor has it decreased. The prices that you see if gold isn't suppressed is a mirror of the currency. When your currency is inflating by printing way to much of it the 'price' of gold goes up. And in a deflation scenario with an appreciating currency the price of gold goes down. Gold isn't changing at all....it's the currency.
    What is the lake of fire? What is it's purpose? Is the lake of fire eternal hell? Is there any hope of escape for those cast into this lake?
    http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html

  25. #65
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    The last time gold coins circulated as money in the FUSA was 1932. At that time an ounce of gold cost $20 and change at the official government set price. Which meant that a dollar was worth 1/20th of an ounce of gold.

    Friday gold closed on the (manipulated) open market at $1286/ounce, which means that a 2019 dollar was worth 1/1286th of an ounce of gold.

    1/20th versus 1/1286th. But gold is worthless....
    The wonder of our time isn’t how angry we are at politics and politicians; it’s how little we’ve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  26. #66
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    Is Gold Even A Recognizable Safe Haven Asset Anymore?
    Obviously for the first time in many years the new bank law proves that yes, indeed gold is a full value asset.

  27. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dozdoats View Post
    But gold is worthless....
    And then after they confiscated the gold at $20 notional what did the pikers do? They turned around and revalued it to $35 an ounce. When governments around the world are forced to value their currencies against a gold fraction they're going to do the same thing again. Even at a 20% backing by physical gold considering the global debt load the gold 'price' would have to be many multiples of what it is now.
    What is the lake of fire? What is it's purpose? Is the lake of fire eternal hell? Is there any hope of escape for those cast into this lake?
    http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html

  28. #68
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    And then after they confiscated the gold at $20 notional what did the pikers do? They turned around and revalued it to $35 an ounce.

    Piker in chief, FDR...

    And I would remind all here that the current official US government price of an ounce of gold is $42.22/ounce. http://www.munknee.com/beware-offici...-only-42-22oz/

    That one ounce gold US Eagle with a $50 face value making a little more sense to you yet?



    The wonder of our time isn’t how angry we are at politics and politicians; it’s how little we’ve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  29. #69
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    I intended to copy over the whole article - here it is. No matter what you buy or own, you need to be an educated consumer. That goes for gold as well. Some folks will nitpick this article, some will dismiss the whole thing out of hand. Believe what you will. As nearly as I can determine, the following is a reasonably accurate summary of history. And a prediction of a possible future as well.

    ==================

    http://www.munknee.com/beware-offici...-only-42-22oz/

    Beware: Official U.S. Government Price for Gold is Only $42.22/ozt. (+5K Views)
    Lorimer Wilson January 11, 2019 3 Comments 5,887 Views

    For many decades now Americans have been allowed to own gold and silver and, despite gold and silver trading in the vicinity of $1200/ozt. and $18/ozt. respectively, the “official” price of gold is still $42.22 per troy ounce.

    The comments above & below are edited ([ ]) and abridged (…) excerpts from the original article by Michael Trudeau

    When it comes to capital preservation, few resources have been able to hold their value like gold. Gold remained quite stable until 1971 when Richard Nixon (temporarily) demonetized gold, detaching Federal Reserve notes (U.S. Dollars) from exchange at the predetermined price of gold. Today, money is created by a privately owned central banking cartel and all U.S. citizens are forced to accept these fiat paper notes a payment for all debts, public and private, as a result of current legal tender laws.

    Why Gold Was Demonetized
    From 1913 through 1933, Federal Reserve Bank branches would take gold on deposit from U.S. citizens and issue in return gold certificates that could then be used in commerce. Profiting by collecting interest, banks lent the gold back to the public, keeping a fraction on hand in case some depositors wanted their gold back. Consumers would take gold on loan for tangible purchases beyond their current means. Upon purchase, the gold would transfer from buyer to seller and then get re-deposited, giving the banks repeated opportunities to loan us the same gold. After several loans and deposits this pyramid scheme, called fractional reserve banking, would, on paper, turn one ounce of gold into several, leaving only a small amount of real gold for depositors.

    Having the newly established power to lower reserve requirements, the Fed was able to fuel the largest economic expansions of all times – the Roaring 20s – through the expansion of credit. What a party it was! Unfortunately, along with credit comes compounding interest. Member banks divested themselves from the exuberant market, raised reserve requirements and their greed ultimately caused the greatest depression of all times. A panic in the banking community was underhand!
    Depositors were demanding their gold back! Having only a fraction of the gold to disburse, bankers turned to their political friends and asked to be bailed out. Franklin D. Roosevelt responded with one of the largest defaults ever pulled on the U.S. public!

    Government is the only agency that can take a valuable commodity like paper, slap some ink on it, and make it totally worthless. – Ludwig von Mises

    On March 4 1933, (the day he was inaugurated) more than 12,000,000 people were out of work; 8,000 banks had failed and the U.S dollar (and almost every other currency in the world) was in trouble because people were losing confidence in paper currency. In fact, panicked people were draining all banks of much needed currency and people were hoarding gold and silver.

    The Introduction of Executive Order No. 6102 in 1933
    On March 6, Roosevelt ordered every bank in the nation closed and prohibited banks from paying out withdrawals in gold or dealing in foreign exchange. On April 5, he issued Executive Order No, 6102 which stated in Section 2: “All persons are hereby required to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, to a Federal Reserve Bank or branch all gold coin, gold bullion and gold certificates now owned by them.”

    Americans had less than a month to comply and received only $20.67 per ounce in fiat paper money and silver coin for their gold. Violation of the order was punishable by up to a $10,000.00 fine and/or up to 10 years in prison, plus confiscation of gold forfeited to the government.

    However, Roosevelt knew he’d have trouble if he tried to confiscate all gold coins, especially those held by people for historical, cultural, or collector reasons. The hang-up was the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, specifically the Eminent Domain Clause, which states, “…nor shall private property be taken (by the government) without just compensation”. This meant the government would have to take every “collector coin” on a case by case basis to determine “just compensation” for all rare and unusual coin – an almost unfeasible task.

    Realizing this, Roosevelt deliberately excluded all “gold coins having a recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins” from his executive order, figuring they would amount to nothing more than a drop in the bucket relatively speaking. In June 1933, Congress, at the urging of Roosevelt, passed a joint resolution rescinding the use of gold clauses in all past and future contracts. This meant all contractual obligations had to be met with fiat paper currency. Gold no longer was king!

    The Gold Reserve Act of 1934
    On January 15, 1934, Congress then passed the Gold Reserve Act which authorized all gold was to be owned by the government as a precious metals base for its currency. This Gold Reserve Act also gave Roosevelt the power to devalue the U.S. dollar by raising the price of gold. Roosevelt immediately raised the base price of gold from $20.67 per ounce to $35.00 per ounce, where it remained until 1971. In reality the price of gold did not almost double overnight — the value of the U.S. dollar fell by 59%.

    Collectors of Rare and Unusual Coins Exempt
    The phraseology of the exemption clause in Executive Order No. 6102 becomes very important to us today as we contemplate what the current administration might be considering to help solve its own financial problems. Roosevelt exempted only “collectors of rare and unusual coins” from the surrender requirement (and only for 5th amendment reasons as discussed earlier) and specifically not the owners, holders, possessors or even investors of such coins because it was understood that a collector’s primary interest in rare coins was enjoyment — it’s for historical, aesthetic or cultural attraction, whereas the investor’s interest was financial motive of making a profit. In a possible future confiscation ownership of gold coins by collectors would once again present unmanageable difficulties for the U.S. Treasury Dept because of the Eminent Domain Clause.

    As long as nobody asks me whether we are off the gold standard….that is all right, because nobody knows what the *&#* gold standard really is. – F.D. Roosevelt: March 8, 1933

    A Perfect Crime!
    With the stroke of a pen, President Roosevelt not only wiped out the value of the savings of many people, (who had at least been fortunate enough to get their money out of the banking system before it, too, collapsed) he effectively wiped out 59% of the government’s debt at the very moment he increased the value of the government’ supply of gold. Talk about a perfect crime!

    Avoid Possible Future Gold Confiscation by Owning Pre-1933 or Commemorative U.S. Gold Coins
    If you wish to own gold it would be wise to purchase it in the form of pre-1933 or Commemorative U.S. gold coins with a variety of dates, denominations and mint marks which could exclude them from any possible future gold confiscation. Gold British sovereigns and gold francs are also protected under this law and good to own. The only individuals who watched the value of their assets increase by 59% when Roosevelt devalued the U.S. dollar were the people who owned gold coins having a recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins. In effect, people owning such rare and unusual gold coins made a bundle. That could be you should government confiscation of gold happen in the future!

    Silver Confiscated in 1934
    On August 9, 1934, Roosevelt issued a Presidential Proclamation ordering all silver bullion be surrendered to the U.S. Treasury within 90 days. A 50% tax was also levied on all profits realized from the sale of silver. People were paid 50.1 cents per ounce.

    The Gold Standard Ended in 1971
    From 1933 to 1971, the U.S. dollar was pegged to gold, with gold remaining at a fixed price of $35.00 per ounce. On August 15, 1971, after heavy gold buying by foreigners had drained billions of dollars worth of gold out of the U.S. Treasury at the price of only $35 an ounce, President Nixon “closed the gold window.” From that moment on not one single currency in the world was redeemable in gold.

    The Devaluation of the U.S. Dollar Begins in Earnest
    Following in Roosevelt’s footsteps, Nixon saw an opportunity to liquidate more governmental debt by taking the dollar off the gold standard. Naturally he seized the opportunity, and in December 1971, he increased the official price of gold from $35.00 per ounce to $38.00 per ounce. This same phenomenon occurred again on February 12, 1973, when the U.S. dollar was devalued again for a third time with the official price of gold being increased to $42.22 per ounce.

    The Official Price of Gold is Only $42.22/oz.
    For many decades now Americans have been allowed to own gold and silver and, despite gold and silver trading in the vicinity of $1200/oz. and $18/oz. respectively, the “official” price of gold is still $42.22 per ounce.

    As such, all holders of gold bullion coin should take the “official” price of $42.22 per oz. very seriously when accumulating gold for protection. If not, you could be setting yourself up for a hard lesson in how our government may treat that bullion in the future. If you think that cannot happen read this:

    In 1979 The Franklin Mint shipped a substantial number of Krugerrands on TWA. The shipment was lost by TWA, so the Franklin Mint sued to recover its loss at the actual market price of gold. In Franklin Mint Corp. vs. Trans World Airlines, the Supreme Court ruled that gold bullion values in commerce are limited to $42.22 an ounce. That’s all they received!

    Could Gold Confiscation Happen Again?
    The United States has seen four different gold confiscations — the last of which was in 1933. Few people realize that when the freedom to own gold was restored in 1972, the President retained the power to require us to surrender our gold which he can do again any time (probably on a Friday) with the mere stroke of a pen.

    That means all confiscated gold could possibly be compensated at only $42.22 per 1oz. and not at the world market price. Don’t take this decision lightly. It is a blatant warning that the government may be contemplating grand larceny — AGAIN.
    The wonder of our time isn’t how angry we are at politics and politicians; it’s how little we’ve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  30. #70
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    I’m not worried at all about a confiscation for many reasons. First of all gold was circulating as currency in 1933, not so today. There is very little gold in private hands in the U.S. today. The only gold most people have if they have any at all is their wedding rings and jewelry. A lot of gold that was in private hands was squeezed out by 2011 with the price run up. Every town had one or more ‘cash for gold’ shops and they vacuumed up a lot.

    What is left is us relatively few oddballs that think it’s important to have some gold on hand and the extremely wealthy that have their own bars and coins. They know what is coming and they intend to keep their gold and since the rules are crafted for the wealthy I don’t see an overt confiscation attempt. Not only that but those that have gold usually have guns and we know how effective gun control laws are.

    Back in the 1930’s we had a lot more trusting and obedient to government society than we do today. People have wised up and trying to confiscate gold will be about as effective as trying to confiscate firearms. Either would result in a rather hot scenario.
    What is the lake of fire? What is it's purpose? Is the lake of fire eternal hell? Is there any hope of escape for those cast into this lake?
    http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html

  31. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hfcomms View Post

    What is left is us relatively few oddballs that think it’s important to have some gold on hand
    I'm glad that this was finally cleared up.

  32. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racing22 View Post
    I'm glad that this was finally cleared up.
    I guess I’m in good company. Central banks are sourcing every ounce they can and gold is now a tier one asset on their balance sheets and the first thing the US does when we ‘liberate’ these small nations is to steal their gold. What do central banks and global financiers know that you apparently don’t?
    What is the lake of fire? What is it's purpose? Is the lake of fire eternal hell? Is there any hope of escape for those cast into this lake?
    http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html

  33. #73
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    Yes, they are in the gold business. So is the COMEX however - supposedly.
    =====================

    https://www.jsmineset.com/2019/05/13/jims-mailbox-2397/

    Jim’s Mailbox
    Posted May 13th, 2019 at 1:30 PM (CST) by Bill Holter & filed under Jim's Mailbox.

    The author may be anonymous but the numbers are correct. …COMEX is used to price gold and silver by the brute force of paper. This game will change overnight when it does!
    Bill

    Bill/Jim,
    Tens of millions of virtual gold ounces, or hundreds of virtual gold tons are traded per day on the Comex, with a purported physical delivery component to them
    Yet, not one single ounce has moved inside the 9 separate dealer vaults in about a week. These vaults purportedly hold 7.7 Million ounces of gold, but not one single ounce has moved in about a week (makes sense right).

    Today, about 600 tons of purported virtual gold futures were traded, yet the dealers have barely 6 tons in the dealer vaults.

    The COT report indicates that the Commercials (“Dealers”) currently have a net short position of 312 virtual gold tons and a gross short position of 1,018 virtual gold tons.

    2 of the 9 dealer vaults have not one ounce of dealer gold!

    6 of the 9 dealer vaults have not one ton of dealer gold!

    Yet, the Comex is the world’s foremost price discovery mechanism for the physical gold price.

    Wonderful!

    -Anonymous
    The wonder of our time isn’t how angry we are at politics and politicians; it’s how little we’ve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  34. #74
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    Charts etc. at the link-
    ===================

    http://www.usagold.com/cpmforum/nv1005-may19/

    NEWS &VIEWS
    Forecasts, Commentary & Analysis on the Economy and Precious Metals
    Celebrating our 46th year in the gold business
    May 2019

    The Exter Inverted Pyramid of Global Liquidity
    Credit risk, liquidity and gold





    In a recent edition of Credit Bubble Bulletin, Doug Noland, the long-time critic of contemporary monetary policy, writes about the odd times in which we live from a financial perspective. “Such a precarious time in history,” he laments. “So much crazy talk has drowned out the reasonable. Deficits don’t matter, so why not a trillion or two for infrastructure? Our federal government posted a $691 billion deficit through the first six months of the fiscal year – running 15% above the year-ago level. Yet no amount of supply will ever impact Treasury prices – period. A Federal Reserve governor nominee taking a shot at ‘growth phobiacs’ within the Fed’s ‘temple of secrecy’, while saying growth can easily reach 3 to 4% (5% might be a ‘stretch’). Larry Kudlow saying the Fed might not raise rates again during his lifetime. Little wonder highly speculative global markets have become obsessed with the plausible.”

    In that essay, Noland goes on to note having been influenced by the highly regarded Dr. Kurt Richebacher (1918-2007). Although he actually worked directly with the Austrian economist/banker, my connection came only as an appreciative reader of the Richebacher Letter (in pre-internet times) and his Wall Street Journal editorials. Richebacher concerned himself regularly with the interplay between financial market credit leverage, ordinary investors and the real economy. Please see International Precious Metals & Commodities Fair – Munich, Germany Transcript of Dr. Kurt Richebächer’s Lecture (USAGOLD, November 19, 2005). In re-reading that lecture, I am struck with how much of Richebacher’s analysis at the time can be applied to the present and a very similar set of circumstances. Now that Noland has acknowledged Richebacher’s influence, it explains to a large degree why his writings – like the snippet above – strike a chord with those of us concerned with the financialization of the markets.

    In this context, we reproduce at the top John Exter’s famed Inverted Pyramid of Global Liquidity. Exter, who was an economist at the Federal Reserve and highly-respected analyst, made a fortune by purchasing gold just before Richard Nixon’s devaluation of the dollar in 1971 and its rapid ascent in the ensuing decade.
    “His pyramid,” explains Capital Wealth Advisor’s Lewis Johnson, “stands upon its apex of gold, which has no counter-party risk nor credit risk and is very liquid. As you work higher into the pyramid, the assets get progressively less creditworthy and less liquid. For instance, paper money here means cash, which is recognized everywhere but is ultimately dependent upon the creditworthiness of the U.S. government. Farther up the pyramid, we find longer-dated U.S. government debt, which like cash is dependent upon the full faith and credit of the U.S. government – but on a longer time horizon. The next level is debt of municipals and corporations, whose value is more safely assured than that of more junior claims, such as investments in stocks, the junior tranche of a corporation’s capital structure. A rough estimate of the global liquid financial markets would place their value close to $100 trillion. This number grows further still as less liquid assets are added, such as private businesses, real estate and ultimately bank derivatives, the largest and murkiest of all assets.”

    In a credit crisis, he concludes, “this bloated structure pancakes back down upon itself in a flight to safety. The riskier, upper parts of the inverted pyramid become less liquid (harder to sell), and – if they can be sold at all – change hands at markedly lower prices as the once continuous flow of credit that had levitated those prices dries up.” In short, what Lewis Johnson outlines is the bottom-line rationale for diversifying one’s portfolio with gold.

    U.S. gold bar and coin demand up 38% over last year

    Map courtesy of the World Gold Council

    The World Gold Council reports U.S. bar and coin demand rose 38% over the past year (through the first quarter). Global central banks and financial institutions drove physical gold demand the past 12 months raising once again the question if professional investors know something that retail investors do not. As the map above illustrates, the United States ranked at the top globally for growth in gold coin and bullion demand over the past year, while Asian demand fell back. Most of the U.S. demand, as previously mentioned, originated with funds and institutions, not individual private investors.

    Here’s the World Gold Council’s summary of demand trends through the first quarter of 2019:
    “Central banks bought 145.5t of gold, the largest Q1 increase in global reserves since 2013. Diversification and a desire for safe, liquid assets were the main drivers of buying here. On a rolling four-quarter basis, gold buying reached a record high for our data series of 715.7t. Q1 jewellery demand up 1%, boosted by India. A lower rupee gold price in late February/early March coincided with the traditional gold-buying wedding season, lifting jewellery demand in India to 125.4t (+5% y-o-y) – the highest Q1 since 2015. ETFs and similar products added 40.3t in Q1. Funds listed in the US and Europe benefitted from inflows, although the former were relatively erratic, while the latter were underpinned by continued geopolitical instability. Bar and coin investment softened a touch – 1% down to 257.8t. China and Japan were the main contributors to the decline. Japan saw net disinvestment, driven by profit-taking as the local price surged in February.”

    JP Morgan study ranks gold second best
    investment over the past twenty years
    J.P. Morgan Asset Management released a report recently ranking investments over the past twenty years. It shows gold as the second best performer over the period at a 7.7% average gain annually. REITs (Real Estate Investment Trusts) were number one at a 9.9% gain. Stocks ranked fourth at 5.6%.

    Why a 60%-65% stock market loss would be run-of-the-mill

    Though the presence of bearish sentiment on stocks is widely acknowledged, it is also generally ignored. Too many believe that even if the stock market tumbles, it will quickly recover as it did after the 2007-2008 credit debacle. There is another scenario – the 1929 example – where the market does not return to peak values for decades (See chart below). “One might view the very comparison of present stock market conditions to 1929 market peak as exaggerated and preposterous, but then, one would be wrong,” says John Hussman of Hussman Funds, “The fact is that on the valuation measures we find most strongly correlated with actual subsequent long-term and full-cycle market returns across history (and even in recent decades), current market valuations match or exceed those observed at the 1929 peak.”

    Chart courtesy of MacroTrends.com
    Why the U.S. needs to encourage Americans to hold gold

    We have always believed that citizen ownership of physical gold is in the national best interest, not just the best interest of its accumulators. In the event of a worldwide economic breakdown or a realignment of the global monetary system, it would be good for the country to have a storehouse of gold held by the populace. China encourages citizen gold ownership for precisely that reason.

    “With a growing number of countries encouraging their central banks and citizens to acquire gold,” writes The Federalist‘s Sean Fieler, “it is increasingly reasonable to assume that gold will be part of the world’s monetary future, not just its past. The U.S. Treasury should embrace policies that will attract more of the world’s gold to America and better position our citizens and our nation for whatever the monetary future may hold.”

    German citizens own a staggering 8918 tonnes of gold
    Along these lines, Bullion Star‘s Ronan Manly published a stunning revelation that the German people have accumulated a “staggering” hoard of gold – 8918 tonnes – a hoard larger than that held by the United States government. The German central bank owns another 3370 tonnes, the second largest official sector holding after the United States.

    In reading Manly’s analysis, we were reminded of the old aphorism – Those own the gold make the rules. “While the Chinese and Indian populations are well known for their insatiable appetite for importing, buying and hoarding physical gold,” he says, “there is one market in the West that does likewise but which flies under the radar slightly, garnering less attention than China and India. That gold market is Germany. Although German citizens are known for their fondness for holding gold, the vast size of the German population’s gold holdings was clarified recently in a newly published survey commissioned by Reisebank, a bank active in the German precious metals market.”

    American Eagle bullion coin sales up sharply over last year
    The U.S. Mint reports sales of American Eagle gold and silver bullion coins running well ahead of last year’s pace at the end of April. Gold Eagle sales were up 49.6% over the first four months of last year. Silver Eagle sales were up 35.2% over the same period. Month over month, Gold Eagle sales were nearly double the sales from April of last year. Silver Eagle sales were up 31% over March of last year. Many analysts consider bullion coin sales a bellwether for overall interest in the precious metals among investors. This year’s strong uptick over last year indicates increased activity among American investors interested in including gold and silver in their holdings as safe-haven hedges and an underpriced asset class.

    OECD indicator flashing danger ahead
    The Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) measures consumer confidence in various economies including the United States. A reading above 100 indicates a positive outlook toward the future economic situation. Values below 100 reflect a more pessimistic outlook. As you can see, we are now at a level in consumer confidence that has signaled downturns in the past. In fact, consumer confidence is now ahead of where it was just before the 2008-2009 recession and just below the level it registered before the dot.com stock market bust in 2000.

    Why gold could rise for the next ten years
    Bert Dohmen, editor of the Wellington Letter, called the twenty-year bear market in gold that began in 1981 and ended in 2001. Now in Forbes article, he reminds us not only of that call but the one that went with it. “The second part of our forecast in 1981 said that according to our very long-term cycle study, that bear market would be followed by a 30-year rise in gold. We even said we had no idea what would cause it, but the cycles said it should happen. If the forecast I made in 1981 still holds true, gold could have a continued secular bull market until 2030. That means the gold bull market could have about 11 more years to go. Historically, the final phase of a bull market is the most spectacular.” [Emphasis added]

    The lesson is one as old as the gold market itself: The best time to buy is when the market is quiet – a strategy that requires both discipline and conviction. As an old friend and client of USAGOLD used to say (he passed away years ago): “It is not a question of if, but when.” He accumulated a large hoard of the metal in the 1990s and early 2000s between $300 and $600 per ounce and lived to see his prediction come true. His estate though was the ultimate beneficiary of his wisdom. He was not one to sell gold once he had acquired it. We chatted regularly on the phone back then and I told him that I had used the story just told in one of my newsletters. He was in his late 80s at the time. “Tell them,” he said resolutely, “that I bought my first ounce of gold at $35.”

    NotableQuotable
    “This single cosmic event, close to our solar system, gave birth to 0.3 percent of the Earth’s heaviest elements, including gold, platinum and uranium. ‘This means that in each of us we would find an eyelash worth of these elements, mostly in the form of iodine, which is essential to life,’ [Astrophysicist Imre] Bartos said.” – Carla Cantor, Columbia News

    Editor’s note: And economists wonder why humanity has a dogged attachment to the barbarous relic. . . . .Was it Carl Sagan who used to say that “we are made of star stuff”?

    “Gold should be about 15% higher over the next year and the basic reason is that eventually the US dollar is going to stop going up. At the same time with all these trade wars and confrontations between major powers of the world, Russia, China, the United States, there is a case for diversification away from dollars and the central banks are doing that. One of the things they are diversifying into is gold. I would say we like gold in the commodity space.” – Mark Matthews, Julius Baer
    “Presently, cryptocurrencies seem to be marred by intellectual contradictions. Why does anyone think, for example, that crypto is a good payment mechanism or store of value when transactions are clunky and the value of a bitcoin has swung from $20,000 to $5,000 in the past 18 months?” – Gillian Tett, Financial Times

    “All of the FED’s tools are failing to halt a race to buy physical gold as insurance. And there is only one source of no counterparty risk insurance that can hedge against a meltdown and preserve capital, and that is physical gold and silver. This insurance is now so artificially depressed that natural forces alone will cause the price of gold to rise rapidly…” – Andrew Maguire, London metals’ trader and analyst at King World News

    “Federal Reserve officials are considering a new program that would allow banks to exchange Treasurys for reserves, a move aimed at ensuring liquidity during difficult times that also would help the central bank decrease the size of its nearly $4 trillion balance sheet. . . . In some quarters, the idea is viewed as a natural extension of current Fed policy. Others, though, think it in essence could be a repackaged form of quantitative easing and thus yet another iteration of the Fed’s decade-long tinkering in financial markets.” – Jeff Cox, CNBC

    “I’m adamant that even the most diehard gold bug should have some capital in the US stock market, bonds, and real estate. Even if it’s just 10% of a gold bug’s portfolio, it’s important for all investors to hedge their bets.” – Stewart Thompson, 321Gold

    “Financialization is the smiley-face perversion of Smith’s invisible hand and Schumpeter’s creative destruction. It is a profoundly repressive political equilibrium that masks itself in the common knowledge of ‘yay, capitalism!’. Financialization is a global phenomenon. In China, it’s transmitted through the real estate market. In the US, it’s transmitted through the stock market. Financialization is the zombiefication of an economy and the oligarchification of a society.” – Ben Hunt, Epsilon Theory

    “The 7% increase in price [predicted recently by the Silver Institute] that is forecast to occur, if it will materialize, will be the beginning of a sustained silver price boom, which might last decades. The supply/demand dynamics make it imperative for this to happen, which is why I have been steadily buying physical silver in the past few years.” – Zoltan Ban, Seeking Alpha

    Editor’s note: We will remind our readers too that when silver moves to the upside, it tends to move in grand fashion.

    “They are snapping up the metal at the fastest rate in almost half a century in a trend that looks set to continue. Over the 12 months through March 31, they purchased a whopping 715.7 metric tons of gold bullion worth around $29.4 billion, according to a recently published report from the industry group World Gold Council.” – Simon Constable, The Street

    “Xi said China would keep the Chinese currency stable within a reasonable range, but would not engage in any ‘beggar-thy-neighbour’ currency devaluation, one of the criticisms of the US towards China. . .Amid concerns that China had failed to live up to its reform pledges, Xi said, ‘China treasures its promises and commitments with a thousand taels of gold.’” – Teddy Ng and Lee Jeung-ho, South China Morning Post

    “[Investing Haven’s Taki] Tsaklanos expects ‘the gold market to build up energy during the summer.’ Any breakthrough, he predicts, ‘is likely going to happen in October or November, and it would pave the way to $1,550.’” – Myra Saefong, MarketWatch

    “Financial professionals frequently opine that asset prices are a function of economic conditions. Assets like stocks, bonds, and real estate rise in value when the economy is expanding. They fall in value when the economy contracts. The problem with those statements is that they represent a flawed understanding of 21st century credit cycles. In particular, recessionary pressures did not cause the tech wreck (2000-2002) nor the housing collapse (2008-2009). Rather, the bursting of each asset bubble sparked the recession that followed.” – Gary Gordon, Seeking Alpha
    “Congressional Republicans are led on a short leash by a president who, as a candidate, vowed to not touch entitlement programs that are significant drivers of the deficit, and who breezily promised to eliminate the national debt (currently $22 trillion) in eight years. (Today, that would mean eight reductions of $2.75 trillion, a sum equal to 63% of the fiscal 2019 budget.) Republicans, now thoroughly disarmed concerning the issue of fiscal probity, struggle to frighten the 2020 electorate with the specter of spendthrift socialists threatening the Republic.” – George Will, TribLive

    “In our business there is no place for certainty. With that in mind, I like to quote Henry Kaufman, who was the chief economist at Salomon Brothers. He said that two kinds of people lose a lot of money: ‘Those who know nothing and those who know everything.’ So, at best, the future is merely a probability distribution of future events. All you can do is get the odds on your side.” – Christopher Gisiger, DAS Interview

    A word on USAGOLD – USAGOLD ranks among the most reputable gold companies in the United States. Founded in the 1970s and still family-owned, it is one of the oldest and most respected names in the gold industry. USAGOLD has always attracted a certain type of investor – one looking for a high degree of reliability and market insight coupled with a professional client (rather than customer) approach to precious metals ownership. We are large enough to provide the advantages of scale, but not so large that we do not have time for you. (We invite your visit to the Better Business Bureau website to review our five-star, zero-complaint record. The report includes a large number of verified customer reviews.)


    ORDER DESK
    1-800-869-5115 Ext#100
    orderdesk@usagold.com

    Disclaimer – Opinions expressed on the USAGOLD.com website do not constitute an offer to buy or sell, or the solicitation of an offer to buy or sell any precious metals product, nor should they be viewed in any way as investment advice or advice to buy, sell or hold. USAGOLD, Inc. recommends the purchase of physical precious metals for asset preservation purposes, not speculation. Utilization of these opinions for speculative purposes is neither suggested nor advised. Commentary is strictly for educational purposes, and as such USAGOLD does not warrant or guarantee the accuracy, timeliness or completeness of the information found here.

    Michael J. Kosares is the founder of USAGOLD and the author of The ABCs of Gold Investing – How to Protect and Build Your Wealth With Gold [Third Edition]. He is also editor and commentator for USAGOLD’s Live Daily Newsletter and editor of the News & Views monthly newsletter.
    The wonder of our time isn’t how angry we are at politics and politicians; it’s how little we’ve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  35. #75
    I like gold(and silver, platinum, rhoduim, etc)for 1 really important reason.

    No counterparty risk.
    VERY few assets have that distinction.


    Southside

  36. #76
    Say I lived out of town in the countryside. I had put half my money into so many ozs of gold and half into high grade dry hydroponic salt mix for plant growing. The collapse had occurred and I needed to sell something to get the car fixed up. Say I needed $500 to fix the car. What do you think I could get sold the easiest so as to just get the $500 I needed?

    To my way of thinking you need tradable goods that would have a local demand during hard times. Here in Australia, I have never found gold easy to sell.

  37. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by China Connection View Post
    Say I lived out of town in the countryside. I had put half my money into so many ozs of gold and half into high grade dry hydroponic salt mix for plant growing. The collapse had occurred and I needed to sell something to get the car fixed up. Say I needed $500 to fix the car. What do you think I could get sold the easiest so as to just get the $500 I needed?

    To my way of thinking you need tradable goods that would have a local demand during hard times. Here in Australia, I have never found gold easy to sell.
    I'll take suger for $500 Alex.


  38. #78
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    What do you think I could get sold the easiest so as to just get the $500 I needed?

    And where will potential customers get $500 to pay for your hydroponic salt mix? What form will that $500 take to provide an equivalent value? Will you trade salt mix to the mechanic for parts and labor to fix the car? What if he does not grow with hydroponics? What will your mechanic use to buy the parts you need to get your car fixed?

    When digits and paper become untenable stores of value, and useless as media of exchange, will you revert to a barter economy to get things you need? You cannot set up a simple linear transaction without a generally acceptable medium of exchange - that is what MONEY is. That is why MONEY supplanted barter in every complex economy IN THE WORLD.
    The wonder of our time isn’t how angry we are at politics and politicians; it’s how little we’ve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  39. #79
    When I held gold I found it hard to sell any quantity and even found it hard in Sydney. Jewelers for instance will only buy gold when they have a job in hand that requires gold. We used to have a mint buyer but they closed shop. I then was selling to something like a Jeweler who was on selling to gold buyers. In the end I found a buyer who would buy any quantity at the spot price. This was in the easy time.

    Now I live a good distance from a big city and would find it extremely difficult to offload gold. I use a hydroponic mix for general fertilizing and get good results. No fertilizer then things won't grow. When things shut down food will be extremely expensive and hard to buy at any price.

  40. #80
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    food will be extremely expensive and hard to buy at any price.

    And who will be selling scarce, valuable food at that point? If they do, what will they be willing to accept as payment for their scarce, valuable food?

    This was in the easy time.

    THIS IS the easy time, CC. If you can, imagine everything turned on its head and nothing working the way you are accustomed to it working. Then plan accordingly.
    The wonder of our time isn’t how angry we are at politics and politicians; it’s how little we’ve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

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