Check out the TB2K CHATROOM, open 24/7               Configuring Your Preferences for OPTIMAL Viewing
  To access our Email server, CLICK HERE

  If you are unfamiliar with the Guidelines for Posting on TB2K please read them.      ** LINKS PAGE **



*** Help Support TB2K ***
via mail, at TB2K Fund, P.O. Box 24, Coupland, TX, 78615
or


FASCISM Government takedown of churches
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 39 of 39
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    3,191

    Government takedown of churches

    This is a splinter thread from one Troke started here:

    http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showt...-sexual-abuse.

    Thanks to parable, who initially brought the idea up on that thread.

    -----

    So, why are the Attorney Generals in numerous states currently investigating sexual abuse within organized religious organizations?

    They would perhaps say it's due to a new level of awareness in the midst of the
    #Me too movement...or maybe they claim they just want to help all these abused victims. We might rightly ask, "Why now?"

    My theory starts with the well-known Martin Neimoller poem:

    First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a socialist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

    Currently, two larger denominations - Catholic and Southern Baptist - are being investigated. The "tip of the spear" was struck by the PA attorney general at 6 Catholic diocese right where I happen to live, so let me bring you up to speed as to what's happening here now, and will soon be happening all over the nation, probably in every state. The victims, thousands of them, are all about to become millionaires. (Please hold the thought, "Good! They deserve to be compensated" - which is possible. Also hold the "Good, make those nasty Catholics pay" thoughts).

    Within the next few months, news is going to break about these settlements. Arbiters are meeting with victims and church officials right this minute to hammer out the numbers. They are going to be substantial (and maybe rightly so, but please hold that thought).

    Here is the key thought to ponder:

    Are the Attorney Generals trying to destroy the organization? Is that the real motive? First, take down the Catholics and the Southern Baptists, then go after the rest?

    There are thousands of victims, each one will receive, what? Hundreds of thousands?Millions? Do the math. Oh, and don't forget to factor in that church members won't be feeling all happy and generous when they're asked to pay off this particular debt. There is a real chance that this will be a death-blow to organized religion. That, IMO, is the true motive.

    Before you get too happy about that (you who hate organized religion), you better consider what they have in mind for the next step down this Orwellian road.
    "As the rising of the sun is clear to all, so the glory of the Lord fills all his works."

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    16,535
    Quote Originally Posted by coalcracker View Post
    Before you get too happy about that (you who hate organized religion), you better consider what they have in mind for the next step down this Orwellian road.
    Is it "those who hate organized religion" or "those who hate child molestation"? Because it's hard NOT to be happy about the thought of impoverished and broken child molesters.

    Which is also part of the problem. It's the ultimate hit. Everyone hates child molesters. If you can successfully pin it on anyone, you win. Automatically. Even your defense looks weak, and even if you're PROVEN innocent, you're still "that guy who got accused of molesting children."

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    12,821
    You reap what you sow.

    These religious institutions that have been in the news have covered up the incidents of sexual abuse and have protected the abusers from prosecution. They are rotten from that respect and just like a physical church with a rotting frame, need to open up and expose to the light, inspect, cull out the rot, replace and treat the source to prevent further rot.

    Who wants to send children to Sunday school when a protected predator might be their teacher.
    "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." George Orwell

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    3,191
    Quote Originally Posted by Blacknarwhal View Post
    Is it "those who hate organized religion" or "those who hate child molestation"? Because it's hard NOT to be happy about the thought of impoverished and broken child molesters.

    Which is also part of the problem. It's the ultimate hit. Everyone hates child molesters. If you can successfully pin it on anyone, you win. Automatically. Even your defense looks weak, and even if you're PROVEN innocent, you're still "that guy who got accused of molesting children."

    Exactly!

    The "ultimate hit" indeed.

    We all personally want the molesters and the ones who cover it up to be punished. Rightly so! String 'em up! But there is another motive here, and it may be equally sinister. Taking down child molesters? Absolutely! Who would argue? Taking down organized religion, on the other hand, is a much different thing. It's like curing the cancer by executing the patient.

    Another metaphor: Some are not just throwing the baby out with the bath water, they are claiming the baby is just as dirty.
    Last edited by coalcracker; 02-11-2019 at 02:35 PM.
    "As the rising of the sun is clear to all, so the glory of the Lord fills all his works."

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by marsh View Post
    You reap what you sow.

    These religious institutions that have been in the news have covered up the incidents of sexual abuse and have protected the abusers from prosecution. They are rotten from that respect and just like a physical church with a rotting frame, need to open up and expose to the light, inspect, cull out the rot, replace and treat the source to prevent further rot.

    Who wants to send children to Sunday school when a protected predator might be their teacher.
    Sunday School today isn't what it started out being. It was originally intended for the children who were working 12 hour days, and the only day they had off, was Sunday (no school) so they decided to teach them the 3 R's. Which is not needed anymore, and all it is, is a baby sitter for the parents.

    You can check here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_school

    So I think a lot of this would be done away if organized religion went back to the old days. The really old days.

    The other point I would make is that Jesus didn't die for organized religion, so let the state do what it will, it will not have an effect on "The Church."

    Even if the state does get involved for child molestation type cases, and BTW the church up the road their youth director is serving time for it, that won't help with churches like the one down the road, whose pastor was caught in adultery, (consensual sex), and the last pastor, and the last pastor before that. All in the same church, go figure.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Directly above the center of the Earth
    Posts
    2,350
    Quote Originally Posted by CaryC View Post
    Sunday School today isn't what it started out being. It was originally intended for the children who were working 12 hour days, and the only day they had off, was Sunday (no school) so they decided to teach them the 3 R's. Which is not needed anymore, and all it is, is a baby sitter for the parents.

    You can check here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_school

    So I think a lot of this would be done away if organized religion went back to the old days. The really old days.

    The other point I would make is that Jesus didn't die for organized religion, so let the state do what it will, it will not have an effect on "The Church."

    Even if the state does get involved for child molestation type cases, and BTW the church up the road their youth director is serving time for it, that won't help with churches like the one down the road, whose pastor was caught in adultery, (consensual sex), and the last pastor, and the last pastor before that. All in the same church, go figure.
    And this is why I don't attend church.

    When 2 or more are gathered in my name I will be there.
    Large groups today are poison to me, however getting together with a couple people and Praising and Praying works well for me. That is Church to me.
    If we aren't close to end times, all 40+ years of study have been a waste of time... Nah!

    As for the Government, any control they can get will be used.
    Enthusiastically! With Malice towards all.

    JefFREE
    Strange times are causing stranger measures...

    1Cor 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these [is] charity.
    I Believe in a Just God.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    3,191
    Quote Originally Posted by CaryC View Post
    Sunday School today isn't what it started out being. It was originally intended for the children who were working 12 hour days, and the only day they had off, was Sunday (no school) so they decided to teach them the 3 R's. Which is not needed anymore, and all it is, is a baby sitter for the parents.

    You can check here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_school

    So I think a lot of this would be done away if organized religion went back to the old days. The really old days.

    The other point I would make is that Jesus didn't die for organized religion, so let the state do what it will, it will not have an effect on "The Church."

    Even if the state does get involved for child molestation type cases, and BTW the church up the road their youth director is serving time for it, that won't help with churches like the one down the road, whose pastor was caught in adultery, (consensual sex), and the last pastor, and the last pastor before that. All in the same church, go figure.
    Excellent point about the church/the body of Christ surviving no matter what. Amen to that!

    I'd like to expand on your last paragraph and hopefully not become too tedious in making the point. I'm assuming you know some people in that church, and you know firsthand that they are good human beings. Though they have faults, as all of us do, they would never molest children.
    So, one molester, one tare among the wheat, commits these horrendous acts. We all want justice, and rightly so! I'd accept castrating the molester. I'd accept jailing him forever. But.... taking down the entire church by levying million dollar payouts is unjust.

    I know some people can't see it. They think it is just, so I'll try one last analogy:

    A terrorist is hiding out in a hospital or a school. Is it just to blow up the whole place to get to the terrorist? Is justice being served? Is it ok? Historically, Western Civilization developed judicial systems (based on the Bible, interestingly) that have answered a firm, "No."
    "As the rising of the sun is clear to all, so the glory of the Lord fills all his works."

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Amongst the Gentle People
    Posts
    6,536
    The RC is being taken down from the inside. I know several RC members who are disgusted and horrified at what has been revealed. They are with holding contributions. As one member told me in person, "We will be a smaller Church, but more devout". He said that without blinking an eye.
    My Mate Winston

  9. #9
    Statistically, most child abuse is in the family or friend of the family. Guess we need to do away with families next.
    'Life is not the way it's supposed to be. It's the
    way it is. The way you cope with it is what makes
    the difference.' Edna Ellison

  10. #10
    Moved into this village of less than 400 people on a Saturday night nearly 50 years ago Was not in the place 24 hrs when I got told not to let my children play in this certain yard because the guy that lives there really likes little kids. So they were around then but kept isolated.

    Now he has the Net to support his proclivities. He has become a member of a Brotherhood. And I think, that much more dangerous.
    "The misfortune of many is the consolation of fools" Ancient proverb

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Ozarks, Roaming
    Posts
    1,725
    Quote Originally Posted by tnhillbilly View Post
    Statistically, most child abuse is in the family or friend of the family. Guess we need to do away with families next.
    That seems to have already happened.
    Women left their station to occupy another, different station.
    MGTOW
    Resist Or Submit.
    It is too late, for words...

    ______Resistor
    ____/VVVVVV\__

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    yankee baptist land
    Posts
    17,381
    I agree about limiting the punishment to be upon the convicted. The guilty. Not the innocent body of believers who have contributed to building and maintaining a church for the purpose of worshipping God and serving their fellow mankind.

    As far as cash awards, why are not the parents held responsible for keeping their children safe?
    Any “reparations”should come out of the pocket of the guilty.
    ” Watch ye therefore and pray always that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass and to stand before the Son of Man”
    Luke 21:36

    COLLAPSE NOW: avoid the rush

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Sandhills North Carolina
    Posts
    35,162
    Has anybody got a Minister that ever condemned abortion from the pulpit? In front of a congregation?
    I’ve not ever heard it spoken in church
    Ever

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by NC Susan View Post
    Has anybody got a Minister that ever condemned abortion from the pulpit? In front of a congregation?
    I’ve not ever heard it spoken in church
    Ever
    Yes. Absolutely. And politics. And MAGA. And Romans, Chapter 1, in context, also. He does not meet one-on-one with a female unless the secretary or another female is close by. Sunday school doors have windows. Each teacher has an assistant. Elements of what is necessary to avoid sin, lawsuits and embarrassment has been discussed at length. Not rocket science. And yes, as stated in the original article, we are a SBC that teaches the Bible as factual, not allegory.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Purdy area, Western WA
    Posts
    29,584
    Quote Originally Posted by NC Susan View Post
    Has anybody got a Minister that ever condemned abortion from the pulpit? In front of a congregation?
    I’ve not ever heard it spoken in church
    Ever
    Absolutely. ALL LCMS Lutheran churches speak out against approving, accepting, or doing that They also offer alternative solutions to abortion and forgiveness for those who truly repent and seek forgivness.
    Jesus didn't just "die on the cross". He so loved us that
    It was God, suffering, bearing the sin, shame, guilt and punishment
    for every single person who had, or would ever live.
    So Justice could be preserved, Enabling Grace and Mercy to all who believe.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    yankee baptist land
    Posts
    17,381
    Quote Originally Posted by NC Susan View Post
    Has anybody got a Minister that ever condemned abortion from the pulpit? In front of a congregation?
    I’ve not ever heard it spoken in church
    Ever
    Yes. All those things mentioned by Parable are true for our church too. Baptist (not southern) with 1200 congregation with Saturday and Sunday meetings.
    ” Watch ye therefore and pray always that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass and to stand before the Son of Man”
    Luke 21:36

    COLLAPSE NOW: avoid the rush

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Foothills of the Blueridge
    Posts
    2,800
    Are they taking down mosques or synagogues? Drag kids and Drag Queen story hours?

    Just curious?
    "If it were announced to you that the enemy had invaded your cities, your castles, your lands; had ravished your wives and your daughters, and profaned your temples—which among you would not fly to arms?" - Saint Bernard of Clairvaux
    Amalric from the sack of Béziers in 1209 during the Albigensian crusade: "Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius."

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    3,191
    Quote Originally Posted by Foothiller View Post
    Are they taking down mosques or synagogues? Drag kids and Drag Queen story hours?

    Just curious?
    Not yet. They seem to have a special hatred for the Prince of Peace, the carpenter's son from Nazareth. Eventually, all who wish to step outside the approved line (the church of the Drag Queen?...) will have to be, how shall we say it, 1984-ed?
    "As the rising of the sun is clear to all, so the glory of the Lord fills all his works."

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    3,191
    When thinking about our churches speaking out against abortion, let's not forget these faith-based groups that are providing so much front-line, practical, tangible help to pregnant women:

    Evangelical Bible believers:

    Care Net
    https://www.care-net.org


    Catholics:

    Birthright
    https://birthright.org/
    "As the rising of the sun is clear to all, so the glory of the Lord fills all his works."

  20. #20
    Our Pastor does as well as other so called politically corrector topics.
    'Life is not the way it's supposed to be. It's the
    way it is. The way you cope with it is what makes
    the difference.' Edna Ellison

  21. #21
    CaryC, just because something started out for one reason does not make it wrong to use differently. Do you think God disapproves of teaching people Gods word? A sermon has to be a shot gun approach because of such a wide audience. A teaching class can group people of like ages/ needs and can then have back and forth discussion where people can learn God's word more deeply. Jesus life is a good example. He preached to crowds but even more so taught small groups. Sunday School or class settings is not the bad thing here.
    'Life is not the way it's supposed to be. It's the
    way it is. The way you cope with it is what makes
    the difference.' Edna Ellison

  22. #22
    I'd like to expand on your last paragraph and hopefully not become too tedious in making the point. I'm assuming you know some people in that church, and you know firsthand that they are good human beings. Though they have faults, as all of us do, they would never molest children.
    So, one molester, one tare among the wheat, commits these horrendous acts. We all want justice, and rightly so! I'd accept castrating the molester. I'd accept jailing him forever. But.... taking down the entire church by levying million dollar payouts is unjust.
    IMHO CoalCracker you are trying, or at least discussing, situations that are within a worldly group of pretenders (that's not to say ALL are) who are attenders at a local building, called church. And are trying to rectify the unrighteousness found there (whatever the actual sin may be) through, or with, secular means, or someone is, through governmental oversight, and enforcement of laws already on the books. Note I said the youth director was ALREADY in jail, law enforced.

    And then, I'm going to say "complaining" that all those people will share in the monetary discipline of the entire group, based on the actions of a single individual.

    When in actuality, the Church of the Bible, didn't, doesn't promote none of that. Meaning the Church in the Bible, and what you are calling church are not the same thing. Any allusion to the contrary is fake news. That's not to say the first century Church, didn't have it's problems, it did.

    Without getting into the Biblical Church, and keeping it on the Secular church focus:

    And dealing strictly (the what ifs can go on forever) the preacher/pastor, and upper leadership.

    If they are caught in a criminal offence, like rape, child molestation etc. They, and only they, deserve to serve time in prison.

    If a lawsuit ensues and the church is implicated, should the group in that church be held accountable (that is what the basis of the suit SHOULD be)? Most certainly! Why?

    For numerous reasons, I will mention a few:

    The body VOTED those persons into a position of power. (which is not Biblical)

    The body did not vet that person. In most cases that I have been involved in, it was based solely on how good they preached (remember Jerry Clowder's story of the chauffer)

    What vetting was done was; did they have a degree, as in Ph.D or other wise. Graduate from a Bible School. Were they in "good standing" with their last church. (I've seen monsters receive letters of good standing from their last place just to get rid of them) None of this is Biblical.

    Don't think the group is innocent, individuals yes, group no. It's the reason the group keeps voting in people with the same character.

    When the group of people down the road kept voting in pastor, after pastor, after pastor that committed adultery, what do you think was happening in the pews?

    When the group of people up the road have voted in pastor, after pastor that molested children what do you think was happening in the pews?

    And even when it wasn't happening in the pews, the overwhelming philosophic doctrine is, it's ok, I can get forgiveness for it, or I'm still saved regardless. For those in the Pulpit, and in the pews.

    The reason for any lawsuit SHOULD BE to put whoever is responsible for the situation, to actually be responsible, and accountable from then on. And not be blase about it, and think O well we'll vote harder next time.

    Remember individuals will come and go, but the group, it stays, and should pay because of its irresponsibility.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by NC Susan View Post
    Has anybody got a Minister that ever condemned abortion from the pulpit? In front of a congregation?
    I’ve not ever heard it spoken in church
    Ever
    We got into the Pro-life activity right after the SCOtUS decision. Polled the local clergy

    Older priests: Can't talk about, it is a political decision and we don't talk politics.

    Young priests: We are with you all the way. (And I heard them speak against abortion.)

    Lutherans: Solid against and they preached against it.

    Methodists: Looked upon it as another counseling tool. (Gad!)

    Episcopalians: Well, on one hand, but then again, on the other hand.

    We didn't poll anybody else. I am not sure there was anybody else in a town of less than 3,000.
    "The misfortune of many is the consolation of fools" Ancient proverb

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Troke View Post
    We got into the Pro-life activity right after the SCOtUS decision. Polled the local clergy

    Older priests: Can't talk about, it is a political decision and we don't talk politics.

    Young priests: We are with you all the way. (And I heard them speak against abortion.)

    Lutherans: Solid against and they preached against it.

    Methodists: Looked upon it as another counseling tool. (Gad!)

    Episcopalians: Well, on one hand, but then again, on the other hand.

    We didn't poll anybody else. I am not sure there was anybody else in a town of less than 3,000.
    Just as a word of caution. There are several …..branches to each of those. Like one branch of Lutheran is very progressive, with lesbian preachers, god is a woman, etc. and I would think support the health of the woman, therefor abortion.


    I would also note that all organized religions have their liberals and conservatives.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    3,191
    Maybe good to start from the question, where does one find the church, the ecclesia, the "called out of the world" in 2019?

    Many make the mistake that CaryC addresses a few posts above - that is, the church is found behind some brick-and-mortar walls, or in some denominational organization. It's clearly not. As an aside, let us pray that we don't have to run into many more of those who say, " If you're not _______, you're not part of the "real" church. We have all faced that challenge, and it's frustrating for sure.

    But, I've found many redeemed and beautiful souls within organized churches. I've also participated in home bible studies, including one situation where the group outgrew the home and eventually built a building and joined the Evangelical Free denomination. They are good people. God forbid that the government ever shuts them down.

    Then there is the Catholic prayer chapel that's open 24/7. One elderly widow spent the last 30 years of her life praying there. She went in at 3 AM and prayed till mass at 7 AM. She took her last breath there in that chapel. God forbid the government ever shuts them down.

    But we do see it coming, don't we?
    "As the rising of the sun is clear to all, so the glory of the Lord fills all his works."

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by coalcracker View Post
    Maybe good to start from the question, where does one find the church, the ecclesia, the "called out of the world" in 2019?

    Many make the mistake that CaryC addresses a few posts above - that is, the church is found behind some brick-and-mortar walls, or in some denominational organization. It's clearly not. As an aside, let us pray that we don't have to run into many more of those who say, " If you're not _______, you're not part of the "real" church.

    But, I've found many redeemed and beautiful souls within organized churches. I've also participated in home bible studies, including one situation where the group outgrew the home and eventually built a building and joined the Evangelical Free denomination. They are good people. God forbid that the government ever shuts them down.

    Then there is the Catholic prayer chapel that's open 24/7. One elderly widow spent the last 30 years of her life praying there. She went in at 3 AM and prayed till mass at 7 AM. She took her last breath there in that chapel. God forbid the government ever shuts them down.

    But we do see it coming, don't we?
    You might be interested in a book titled "The Pilgrim Church" by E. H. Broadbent. It sort of documents how "the Church" moved down through the centuries.

    In each case it started out as a home Bible Study/House Church then grew, moved into a building, became an organization. As it became an organization another Bible Study/Home Church would spring up, and the process would start over. It's interesting.

    These types of things aren't as publicized as the growth of the RCC, SBC, Methodist, etc.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    3,191
    Quote Originally Posted by CaryC View Post
    You might be interested in a book titled "The Pilgrim Church" by E. H. Broadbent. It sort of documents how "the Church" moved down through the centuries.

    In each case it started out as a home Bible Study/House Church then grew, moved into a building, became an organization. As it became an organization another Bible Study/Home Church would spring up, and the process would start over. It's interesting.

    These types of things aren't as publicized as the growth of the RCC, SBC, Methodist, etc.
    I will definitely check that out. Sounds like the idea might be that the Spirit keeps breaking out from the dead structures that try to contain it.

    One further thought, too. We know that persecution is good for the church. The blood of martyrs is the soil upon which it grows. Maybe the better prayer would be, God forbid that we remain in comfort where our hearts so easily grow cold?

    So, let Pilate condemn us. Let the world system once again nail Christ's hands and feet to the cross. After every Good Friday comes a Resurrection Sunday.
    "As the rising of the sun is clear to all, so the glory of the Lord fills all his works."

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by coalcracker View Post
    I will definitely check that out. Sounds like the idea might be that the Spirit keeps breaking out from the dead structures that try to contain it.

    One further thought, too. We know that persecution is good for the church. The blood of martyrs is the soil upon which it grows. Maybe the better prayer would be, God forbid that we remain in comfort where our hearts so easily grow cold?

    So, let Pilate condemn us. Let the world system once again nail Christ's hands and feet to the cross. After every Good Friday comes a Resurrection Sunday.
    There is a tendency to think on the part of secular church, that programs increase the size of numbers on the boards-mega churches, etc. And the push is to get out and win souls.

    Which is contrary to history in that when The Church, has been persecuted, as in first 300 years of Christianity, to name one period, that is what caused the message of the cross to impact people/individuals, not politics.

    And that is a generic statement. The message of the cross got through to me during a Billy Graham Crusade (where are those now) in the beginning I was what could be classified as a carnal Christian, and it took some really hard knocks, to get me to realize what I had, and what the Lord expected of me. My life wasn't "alright" with Him, until He got me right.

  29. #29
    Our pastor spoke out against abortion just this Sunday.

  30. #30
    Joannita. Thank you. I am thankful for all pastors who honor God and truly preach His word.

  31. #31
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    22,736
    Quote Originally Posted by NC Susan View Post
    Has anybody got a Minister that ever condemned abortion from the pulpit? In front of a congregation?
    I’ve not ever heard it spoken in church
    Ever
    You need to check out some other churches. There are many of us who condemn abortion.
    "Freedom is not something to be secured in any one moment of time. We must struggle to preserve it every day. And freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction."
    -Ronald Reagan

  32. #32
    CoalCracker:

    I need to back up on something I said.

    Which is contrary to history in that when The Church, has been persecuted, as in first 300 years of Christianity, to name one period, that is what caused the message of the cross to impact people/individuals, not politics.
    It came to me that its not just persecution that God uses to spread the Gospel. In the late 1700's and then again in the late 1800's there was the First and Second Great Awakenings.

    The Reformation might be classified as a time of persecution, if you were Protestant. However, that and the break with the RCC in England, then later Puritans and Pilgrims was something that took place within the "church".

    Which would be different from persecution from idol worshipping government, like Rome, and later from the AC.

    So I guess you can't put God's moving in a box and sell it on a street corner.

  33. #33
    Sodomites and pedophiles have infiltrated "religion" in an effort to practice their perversion under a cloak of "righteousness" and when caught KNOW that there will be a move to "forgive" them and let a lot of their demonic sexual predatory acts go unreported. These people are NOT Christian but do represent Christians and are the public image of how Christ Jesus is portrayed - this is NOT persecution of the "church" it is a misrepresentation OF Christ Jesus the leader of ALL Christian churches. Arrest and prosecute ALL those who sexually abuse - treat pedophiles as murderers because of the lifetime damage that was done.
    The people of the United States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. Abraham Lincoln, 1859

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    16,711
    Quote Originally Posted by coalcracker View Post
    Excellent point about the church/the body of Christ surviving no matter what. Amen to that!

    I'd like to expand on your last paragraph and hopefully not become too tedious in making the point. I'm assuming you know some people in that church, and you know firsthand that they are good human beings. Though they have faults, as all of us do, they would never molest children.
    So, one molester, one tare among the wheat, commits these horrendous acts. We all want justice, and rightly so! I'd accept castrating the molester. I'd accept jailing him forever. But.... taking down the entire church by levying million dollar payouts is unjust.

    I know some people can't see it. They think it is just, so I'll try one last analogy:
    I say BS....If you know this is going on and you refuse to say anything to stop it, you condone it, you own it. And that is the biggest problem with churches, they want to hide it, sweep it under the rug, and say, what would Jesus do! And then move the person out of the church to go somewhere else to another.

    It is a crime in many states not to report a crime. If you allow innocents to be ravaged and abused by not reporting it, you are no protector, you are a piece of shit, and only concerned for yourself and image of your church and what your going to loose. Shut them down if they hiding them...And that is the problem they have been hiding the abuses for years and years and years.
    "Man is not to be blamed for sinning. After all, he faces great temptations and is extremely vulnerable. What he is blamed for is not doing Teshuvah (repenting) because he can do that at any time." Rav Simcha Bunim of P'shischa

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    3,191
    Good thoughtful posts above ^^^.

    I certainly don't wish to be a defender of gross and blatant sin, or of systems that accept it, or maybe even promote it?

    Yet, I can't bring myself to see the government takedown of organized religion in a positive light. From a sociological viewpoint, it has some dramatic implications, like removing prayer from the schools. You know, they are not going to stop until all Christian truth is extinguished. Eventually home bible study groups won't be safe here in America either. We've seen it play out elsewhere.

    "If one religion only were allowed in England, the Government would very possibly become arbitrary; if there were but two, the people would cut one another’s throats; but as there are such a multitude, they all live happy and in peace." - Voltaire

    We can see, sociologically, the "one religion" of the United Nations coming together. These attacks on churches, under the guise of protecting victims of sexual abuse, may be part of that not-so-hidden agenda?

    We've had it good here in Western Civilization. We have produced the most elevated political and religious thought of all time. Many millions have been blessed by the Judeo-Christian principles that have underpinned society for centuries. I'd like to stand against the forces trying to destroy that, and I'm guessing most of us here do as well. For example, I'm not a Jehovah Witness, but I wouldn't want the government to shut them down.

    I'm thinking out loud and rambling a bit. The point is that in spite of the issues within organized religion (which I agree are significant), I just can't bring myself to like what the state Attorney Generals are doing here, and this is just the beginning. They will push this sharpened "sexual abuse" spear through the hearts of many more groups, killing them off by bunkrupting them.
    "As the rising of the sun is clear to all, so the glory of the Lord fills all his works."

  36. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    16,711
    The problem is is it government controlled and the government does have the right to shut it down.
    "Man is not to be blamed for sinning. After all, he faces great temptations and is extremely vulnerable. What he is blamed for is not doing Teshuvah (repenting) because he can do that at any time." Rav Simcha Bunim of P'shischa

  37. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    16,711
    Coalcracker, I am sitting here laughing, you do not want the churches shut down for these crimes against humanity, you think the government has no right! You forget about (501c3) and the deal they signed to get special tax funding through the government? If they do not like what you preach, to what you preach and who you marry, they can shut you down.

    It's all organized you have to follow the governments rules to get that special break. With that said lets get back to the church and what I said above.

    When the government targets mobsters and such they always target them with RICO right. An organized unit, What if they decided that everyone in the same church who knew and hid this from being recognized and prosecuted were criminal and monetarily responsible as who those who were responsible for the act. Start with the leaders and then the people who knew! Your defense of not really knowing is BS as we know how gossip travels through a church, like a train horn in an empty tunnel. Far fetched, But what if...Listen get out of the churches...stop supporting organized crime.

    I would also add there are many nice people in churches, are all guilty, or are they guilty of association?
    Last edited by medic38572; 02-13-2019 at 12:55 PM.
    "Man is not to be blamed for sinning. After all, he faces great temptations and is extremely vulnerable. What he is blamed for is not doing Teshuvah (repenting) because he can do that at any time." Rav Simcha Bunim of P'shischa

  38. #38
    Medic, check out the thread I started about 501c classifications. You like many have been saying the same thing for a long time and none bother to see if what you thought and said about the 501c was even accurate. There is no special tax funding for a church. You don't sign a paper selling all your rights to the government. Again you speak of something you believe that is not true. Your not alone many on here do the same thing. I keep hearing about the 501c being a horrible thing but did not think it was a big deal. So because I usually trust the Timebomb gang I thought I might be wrong. I ask an honest question wanting someone to educate me on why I was wrong. Instead the first seven posts basically said I needed to educate myself as if everyone knows that the 501c is horrible, terrible, bad. Even after posting from two sources everyone seemed to still cling to their opinions as truth. Someone else posted from yet another source proving what I thought was truth. I am honest I felt disappointed in many of the posts in that thread so I don'y want to tell you to educate yourself but I disagree with you about the 501c status and that churches support organized crime. God not man instituted the church and it's still his plan until he returns.
    'Life is not the way it's supposed to be. It's the
    way it is. The way you cope with it is what makes
    the difference.' Edna Ellison

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    3,191
    Quote Originally Posted by tnhillbilly View Post
    Medic, check out the thread I started about 501c classifications. You like many have been saying the same thing for a long time and none bother to see if what you thought and said about the 501c was even accurate. There is no special tax funding for a church. You don't sign a paper selling all your rights to the government. Again you speak of something you believe that is not true. Your not alone many on here do the same thing. I keep hearing about the 501c being a horrible thing but did not think it was a big deal. So because I usually trust the Timebomb gang I thought I might be wrong. I ask an honest question wanting someone to educate me on why I was wrong. Instead the first seven posts basically said I needed to educate myself as if everyone knows that the 501c is horrible, terrible, bad. Even after posting from two sources everyone seemed to still cling to their opinions as truth. Someone else posted from yet another source proving what I thought was truth. I am honest I felt disappointed in many of the posts in that thread so I don'y want to tell you to educate yourself but I disagree with you about the 501c status and that churches support organized crime. God not man instituted the church and it's still his plan until he returns.
    Well put!

    I would add my personal observation that while I have met some spiritual "lone wolf" Christians, I have met many more who worship within the walls of corporate religion. No amount of theoretical discourse can negate the personal love of Christ I have seen and experienced from these blessed souls. Or to put it succinctly: the Body of Christ is found both within and without 501c3 corporations.
    "As the rising of the sun is clear to all, so the glory of the Lord fills all his works."

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts


NOTICE: Timebomb2000 is an Internet forum for discussion of world events and personal disaster preparation. Membership is by request only. The opinions posted do not necessarily represent those of TB2K Incorporated (the owner of this website), the staff or site host. Responsibility for the content of all posts rests solely with the Member making them. Neither TB2K Inc, the Staff nor the site host shall be liable for any content.

All original member content posted on this forum becomes the property of TB2K Inc. for archival and display purposes on the Timebomb2000 website venue. Said content may be removed or edited at staff discretion. The original authors retain all rights to their material outside of the Timebomb2000.com website venue. Publication of any original material from Timebomb2000.com on other websites or venues without permission from TB2K Inc. or the original author is expressly forbidden.



"Timebomb2000", "TB2K" and "Watching the World Tick Away" are Service Mark℠ TB2K, Inc. All Rights Reserved.