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WAR A Holocaust Was What The Americans Did To The Germans AFTER THE WAR
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  1. #1
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    A Holocaust Was What The Americans Did To The Germans AFTER THE WAR

    A am fortunate to own the book by this author, James Bacque.
    It was a real expose on WW2.

    I also own the book, "I DON'T Like Ike" by M S King....it gives the other side of Ike that we weren't told about. Available at Amazon.

    This part of history, below, is especially egregious, because this occurred AFTER the war was over, and yet, those prisoners were starved and frozen to death in cruel POW camps with no shelter or latrines. The books I read told how even women and children were imprisoned, in the many prison camps, after the war. MMJ

    https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/201...o-the-germans/

    January 11, 2019

    A holocaust was what the Americans did to the Germans
    Eisenhower’s Starvation Order

    By James Bacque

    Never had so many people been put in prison. The size of the Allied captures was unprecedented in all history. The Soviets took prisoner some 3.5 million Europeans, the Americans about 6.1 million, the British about 2.4 million, the Canadians about 300,000, the French around 200,000. Uncounted millions of Japanese entered American captivity in 1945, plus about 640,000 entering Soviet captivity.

    As soon as Germany surrendered on 8 May 1945, the American Military Governor, General Eisenhower, sent out an “urgent courier” throughout the huge area that he commanded, making it a crime punishable by death for German civilians to feed prisoners.

    It was even a death-penalty crime to gather food together in one place to take it to prisoners … The order was sent in German to the provincial governments, ordering them to distribute it immediately to local governments. Copies of the orders were discovered recently in several villages near the Rhine … The message [which Bacque reproduces] reads in part: “… under no circumstances may food supplies be assembled among the local inhabitants in order to deliver them to the prisoners of war. Those who violate this command and nevertheless try to circumvent this blockade to allow something to come to the prisoners place themselves in danger of being shot….”

    Eisenhower’s order was also posted in English, German and Polish on the bulletin board of Military Government Headquarters in Bavaria, signed by the Chief of Staff of the Military Governor of Bavaria. Later it was posted in Polish in Straubing and Regensburg, where there were many Polish guard companies at nearby camps.

    One US Army officer who read the posted order in May 1945 has written that it was “the intention of Army command regarding the German POW camps in the US Zone from May 1945 through the end of 1947 to exterminate as many POWs as the traffic would bear without international scrutiny.”

    … The [American] army’s policy was to starve [German] prisoners, according to several American soldiers who were there. Martin Brech, retired professor of philosophy at Mercy college in New York, who was a guard at Andernach in 1945, has said that he was told by an officer that “it is our policy that these men not be fed.”

    The 50,000 to 60,000 men in Andernach were starving, living with no shelter in holes in the ground, trying to nourish themselves on grass. When Brech smuggled bread to them through the wire, he was ordered to stop by an officer. Later, Brech sneaked more food to them, was caught, and told by the same officer, “If you do that again, you’ll be shot.” Brech saw bodies go out of the camp “by the truckload” but he was never told how many there were, where they were buried, or how.

    … The prisoner Paul Schmitt was shot in the American camp at Bretzenheim after coming close to the wire to see his wife and young son who were bringing him a basket of food. The French followed suit: Agnes Spira was shot by French guards at Dietersheim in July 1945 for taking food to prisoners. The memorial to her in nearby Buedesheim, written by one of her chidren, reads: “On the 31st of July 1945, my mother was suddenly and unexpectedly torn from me because of her good deed toward the imprisoned soldiers.” The entry in the Catholic church register says simply: “A tragic demise, shot in Dietersheim on 31.07.1945. Buried on 03.08.1945.”

    Martin Brech watched in amazement as one officer at Andernach stood on a hillside firing shots towards German women running away from him in the valley below.

    The prisoner Hans Scharf … was watching as a German woman with her two children came towards an American guard in the camp at Bad Kreuznach, carrying a wine bottle. She asked the guard to give the bottle to her husband, who was just inside the wire. The guard upended the bottle into his own mouth, and when it was empty, threw it on the ground and killed the prisoner with five shots.

    ….Many prisoners and German civilians saw the American guards burn the food brought by civilian women. One former prisoner described it recently: “At first, the women from the nearby town brought food into the camp. The American soldiers took everything away from the women, threw it in a heap and poured gasoline [benzine] over it and burned it.”

    Eisenhower himself ordered that the food be destroyed, according to the writer Karl Vogel, who was the German camp commander appointed by the Americans in Camp 8 at Garmisch-Partenkirchen. Although the prisoners were getting only 800 calories per day, the Americans were destroying food outside the camp gate.

    James Bacque, Crimes and Mercies: The Fate of German Civilians Under Allied Occupation, 1944-1950, pp. 41-45, 94-95.

    https://www.amazon.com/Crimes-Mercie...21448&sr=1-1&A Holocaust

  2. #2
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    Did the authors report on the ongoing German guerrilla war after the end of formal hostilities? Search Werwolf

    Current history indicates American fears of postwar guerrillas were exaggerated and did result in abuses...
    Last edited by Dozdoats; 01-11-2019 at 11:21 PM. Reason: typo
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  3. #3
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    War is hell and people die- before, during, and after the war.
    In war the object is to kill all your opponents but the question comes up as what to do with them if they surrender. They are still the enemy. Logically the 'winner' would kill all the 'losers'.

  4. #4
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    It was revenge by the victorious for the elites to fully destroy the only nation which would be able to repel a full Soviet invasion of Western Europe. The Soviets had a plan to invade Europe in 1940 all the way to the Irish Sea. Abwehr intercepted it and the Germans did a pre-emptive strike which is legal under international law for land warfare. Roosevelt also knew about it, but he was an American Bolshevik.
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  5. #5
    Is this true, and is it at the level they speak? I have never heard of this.

  6. #6
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    Yes it is true, the Soviets were not so severe to the Germans they captured after the war, they made use of their industrial nature and put a satellite in orbit before we could even get a successful rocket launch. I met grandchildren of "German" Soviets.
    "Approach with a calm resolve, attack with reckless indifference." Gladius Republicae!
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  7. #7
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    First I heard of this.

  8. #8
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    No doubt things like this was why West Germany was such a massively reluctant ally of the U.S. and why millions of Germans fled to East Germany throughout the Cold War.

  9. #9
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    tanstaafl.....I have never read, in any of my several collections of WW2 history books, that Germans fled to E. Germany. after the war......East Germany was taken over by the Russian Communists. I have read that as the Russians arrived into the part of Germany, they took over, every woman and girl was raped by them. The Russians also built the wall, keeping the Germans IN East Germany....they were really imprisoned.

    However, the sad news is that another book I have read tells that our GI's did a lot of raping too. Anyone, here, read the book, "Hellstorm" which talks about the unconscionable terror that the Allies unleashed on Germans, after the war?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michiana MaJo View Post
    tanstaafl.....I have never read, in any of my several collections of WW2 history books, that Germans fled to E. Germany ...
    I was being sarcastic. West Germany was hardcore pro-West, and to this day I understand that Germans raised in West Germany can easily identify Germans raised in East Germany. Even the most casual comparison of West and East Germany shows a huge difference between the two, with East Germany almost always coming across as the poor relatives. No doubt there were abuses by the Allies during and after the war, but there are also stories like the Candy Bombers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raisin_Bombers) that made extremely loyal Cold War allies out of former bitter enemies.

  11. #11
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    war is evil. it brings out the best and worst of people. im not surprised if there was a backlash against the nazis considering all the brutal killing of civilians they did by the millions. ive seen books here and there of nazi soldiers complaining of how they were treated after the war , but, you know-i dont have alot of sympathy. the nazi soldiers are surprised they are treated with disgust and contempt after what they participated in?
    they chose to go along to get along.
    thats ho evil grows bit by bit, inch by inch in our minds and hearts til we just give in to not make waves or get into trouble. til one day we stand and look at our life and ourself and wonder WTF happened and how did we get into this handbasket going to hell
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  12. #12
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    NAZI soldier is a misnomer, a NAZI was a MEMBER of the NAZI Party. A German National was not, so a Wermacht soldier was not a Nazi soldier. There is a difference. Are you a Democrat soldier? a Republican soldier? No, you're a U.S. National and cannot be classified by a political party to which you are not a member.

    What was done to the German people after the war was a War Crime and a Crime Against Humanity by international agreement and U.S. Laws of Land Warfare. Eisenhower, Curtis LeMay, Robert Strange MacNamara were war criminals because after the cessation of hostilities all of the Germans were non-combatants.
    "Approach with a calm resolve, attack with reckless indifference." Gladius Republicae!
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  13. #13
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    I had never heard of this either. If it is so, then wouldn't this behavior be considered war crimes?
    Saying that war is hell and lots of people die in them is true but this happened AFTER the war. Yes?
    You don't treat prisoners of war this way.
    I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voortrekker View Post
    NAZI soldier is a misnomer, a NAZI was a MEMBER of the NAZI Party. A German National was not, so a Wermacht soldier was not a Nazi soldier. There is a difference. Are you a Democrat soldier? a Republican soldier? No, you're a U.S. National and cannot be classified by a political party to which you are not a member.

    What was done to the German people after the war was a War Crime and a Crime Against Humanity by international agreement and U.S. Laws of Land Warfare. Eisenhower, Curtis LeMay, Robert Strange MacNamara were war criminals because after the cessation of hostilities all of the Germans were non-combatants.
    Go snivel at the graves at Normandy, and countless American bodies never recovered. My folks fought and died on that miserable
    continent I have the silver stars to prove it. Your lame interpretation of events 75 years ago are a gross misinterpretation of what happened. Did I tell you about my uncle Henry? Bronze star Silver star, with Patton all the way through. What about my uncle Jasper?
    Three silver stars and one bronze? Did I tell you about my FIL? Fought all the way with Taffy 2. How about my dad? Naval medic attached to a Marine battalion, He hauled water food and ammo to the front and the dead and wounded back to aid. They were both at the invasion of Okinawa. So, screw you and your comfort goat.
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  15. #15
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    Is this true, and is it at the level they speak? I have never heard of this.
    ==========
    It is true and it has been documented before.

    Other Losses is a 1989 book by Canadian writer James Bacque, in which Bacque alleges that U.S. General Dwight Eisenhower intentionally caused the deaths by starvation or exposure of around a million German prisoners of war held in Western internment camps briefly after the Second World War. Other Losses charges that hundreds of thousands of German prisoners that had fled the Eastern front were designated as "Disarmed Enemy Forces" in order to avoid recognition under The Geneva Convention (1929), for the purpose of carrying out their deaths through disease or slow starvation. Other Losses cites documents in the U.S. National Archives and interviews with people who stated they witnessed the events. The book claims that there was a "method of genocide" in the banning of Red Cross inspectors, the returning of food aid, the policy regarding shelter building, and soldier ration policy.

    The title of Other Losses derives from a column of figures in weekly U.S. Army reports that Bacque states actually reflects a body count of German prisoners that died of slow starvation or diseases. The book states that Colonel Philip Lauben, chief of German Affairs Branch at SHAEF (Supreme Headquarters Allied Expeditionary Force), confirmed that "other losses" meant deaths and escapes, with escapes being a minor part. This is supported by a US Army document lodged in the US National Archives which "plainly states" that the "Other Losses" category of prisoners was for deaths and escapes.[1] Bacque dismisses claims from his opponents that "other losses" meant transfers or discharges, as these are accounted for in other columns in the same tables. Furthermore, there is no separate column in which deaths were recorded.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_Losses
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  16. #16
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    Seems to me the author is confusing the Americans with the Russians in the way the POWs were treated in the months after the surrender. The majority of Germans captured by the Russians never made it home, less than 50%.

    Every account I have read by a German tells how they were treated reasonably well after the surrender.

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  17. #17
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    It was a ****ing War. A lot of people died. Germany invaded a bunch of other countries. What did they expect was going to happen if they got their asses kicked?

    I would have plowed it and everyone there into the ground and planted an American flag on the heap. Taken everything not nailed down, drained the lakes then poisoned the Earth. It would STILL be a desert.

    Same goes with the M.E.,. We spend so much time and money and waste so many lives screwing around trying to "Win their Hearts and Minds" then rebuilding them when I would tear out their Heart. Blow their Minds [[with whatever projectile was on-hand]] and turn it into a big ol' WalMart parking lot.

    It's what they would do to us.
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  18. #18
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    There are documentaries on youtube about this post-war disaster in Germany. That cover how the people were treated, how POWS were treated, how the rebuilding was done in the American, French, British and Soviet quarters.

    I think the survivors of Germany's onslaught across Europe and Russia didn't feel a whole lot of sympathy for Germany or her soldiers..after their lives, homes, families, countries were ripped apart and they were dealing with their own starvation, homelessness, etc..and after 'the news' started coming out. Eisenhower saw 'HELL' perpetrated by Germans on other people. Hard to be compassionate to those who had brought such pain to others. Just sayin'.

    I remember seeing video taken by U.S. soldiers and U.S. news media of one liberated concentration camp where Eisenhower rounded up the surrounding German town folk and MADE THEM see the death, disease, famine, destruction of lives in the camp. He wanted them to see what they had done. They weren't innocent. He made the guards carry and move the bodies, dig them up, bury them, etc.

    Dwight D. Eisenhower on the Camps http://remember.org/facts-aft-lib-eis.html

    “The same day [April 12, 1945] I saw my first horror camp. It was near the town of Gotha. I have never felt able to describe my emotional reactions when I first came face to face with indisputable evidence of Nazi brutality and ruthless disregard of every shred of decency. Up to that time I had known about it only generally or through secondary sources. I am certain, however that I have never at any other time experienced an equal sense of shock.

    “I visited every nook and cranny of the camp because I felt it my duty to be in a position from then on to testify at first hand about these things in case there ever grew up at home the belief or assumption that `the stories of Nazi brutality were just propaganda.’ Some members of the visiting party were unable to through the ordeal. I not only did so but as soon as I returned to Patton’s headquarters that evening I sent communications to both Washington and London, urging the two governments to send instantly to Germany a random group of newspaper editors and representative groups from the national legislatures. I felt that the evidence should be immediately placed before the American and British publics in a fashion that would leave no room for cynical doubt.”

    Merle Miller quotes Eisenhower speaking on April 25th 1945 to the members of Congress and Journalists who had been shown Buchenwald the day before:

    “You saw only one camp yesterday. There are many others. Your responsibilities, I believe, extend into a great field, and informing the people at home of things like these atrocities is one of them… Nothing is covered up. We have nothing to conceal. The barbarous treatment these people received in the German concentration camps is almost unbelievable. I want you to see for yourself and be spokesmen for the United States.” [pages 774-5]
    Last edited by Chance; 01-12-2019 at 03:21 AM.
    "Apres la Guerre."

  19. #19
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    But don't forget the Berlin airlift because of the Soviet blockade of West Berlin:

    This was a 327 day operation where U.S. and British planes flew in food and supplies dropping them into West Berlin after the Soviets blockaded the city in 1948.

    This cost America and Britain $224 Million - they delivered over 2.3 Million tons of food, fuel, and other supplies. Over 1,500 tons of food were needed daily to keep over 2 million people from starving. President Truman could have abandoned Berlin, but he didn't. Hundreds of flights were scheduled, 24 hours a day, with flights 3 minutes apart. C-54s and C-47s were used.

    This was an absolutely amazing American and British military operation to save 2 million German people. There are youtube documentaries on this also.
    "Apres la Guerre."

  20. #20
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    So, none of this happened?
    And if it did, it's because it was a war and that's okay? (even though it supposedly happened after the war)
    And we had folks who died over there so if the ones coming in decided to get some retribution on POW's, that's okay?
    I tell ya, I don't know what to believe now.
    I do know the military does things at times that is not good at all.
    I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
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  21. #21
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    A Holocaust Was What The Americans Did To The Germans AFTER THE WAR
    ....oh so there wasn't a Berlin Airlift?

    I could care less about this phoney click bait thread...we have much bigger CURRENT REAL TIME issues on our collective plate these days.

    And yes my father was with Patton in ww2.
    Last edited by JF&P; 01-12-2019 at 04:28 AM.
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  22. #22
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    A lot of suffering and deaths among the German population was pretty much unavoidable. Between the advance of the Allied armies on one hand and Hitler's order to destroy the remaining infrastructure of Germany on the other hand it was impossible to feed the civilian population regardless if we fed them or if they tried to do for themselves. Immediate post WWII Germany was like Venezuela today. In many ways the infrastructure is gone and the economy in collapse and it's simply impossible to meet the needs of the civilian population let alone those classified as prisoners of war. There were horrendous abuses on all sides of the equation. The Germans did it to their prisoners, the Soviets did it to theirs and we did it at times to ours.
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  23. #23
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    The whole idea that war should have rules is laughable and is in fact what makes wars tolerable.
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  24. #24
    I'm pretty much of the opinion that war is war, and so is the aftermath. Germany was devastated and couldn't help feed her own people. The victorious countries had to supply pretty much everything for subsistence they needed and still feed our own troops that were there. Lets see, who's first on the list for getting provisions? Hmm, I believe it'd be my own troops, then prisoners and civilians. Supplying troops was a major undertaking given the numbers that were there and then you add all the prisoners and most civilians into the mix too. They're lucky Germany survived as a country, which by the way, they only did because we rebuilt them!
    Last edited by 4RIVERS; 01-12-2019 at 08:57 AM.

  25. #25
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    It is unwise to base one's total opinion regarding anything on one book.

    Many of the textbooks in use in schools today are written by liberal/socialists who believe it is ok to rewrite history because the end justifies the means in their warped world view.

    It is the goal of these people to insult and attempt to shame America. For the past 40+ years they have been at it and have been quite successful in turning the minds of our young people against our country.

    This author falls into the same category. Read something that rebuts him before accusing our people of atrocities committed by others.

  26. #26
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    Methinks the author of the OP may have an agenda.

    I don't want to filthy my hands by looking.

  27. #27
    This sounds like what the yanks did to the south after our war.

    This part of history, below, is especially egregious, because this occurred AFTER the war was over, and yet, those prisoners were starved and frozen to death in cruel POW camps with no shelter or latrines. The books I read told how even women and children were imprisoned, in the many prison camps, after the war. MMJ

  28. #28
    Uncles who were there have told me about the POW's that were to be repatriated to russian care finding a nail driven into the wall to hang something on and rare back and slam their forehead into the nail to kill themselves rather than be sent back to russia. Apparently they would be treated as traitors and both them and all their family killed if repatriated.

    Never heard about US doing much like that. Did hear about them rounding up locals to take care of the death camp survivors and making them all march through the camp and see what their passivity had allowed to happen. Nothing more about what was done after that.

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  29. #29
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    My FIL was an American soldier during the war. My MIL was a German Nazi. I got both sides of the story.

  30. #30
    more euro trash cashing in $$$$$ on another USA hit piece >>>> doesn't matter if it's 3 generations old and just about fake news as it comes .....

    euro globalists are eating this kind of crap up - they can imagine Eisenhower being Trump and jack off all afternoon ....
    Illini Warrior

  31. #31
    Yes, war is war. However, all we ever hear about from the Left is how terrible we were to nuke Japan. I have no problem with THAT, yet we never hear about what we did to Germany. I'm just going to say it: on the European front, we chose the wrong side in both world wars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroe View Post
    Yes, war is war. However, all we ever hear about from the Left is how terrible we were to nuke Japan. I have no problem with THAT, yet we never hear about what we did to Germany. I'm just going to say it: on the European front, we chose the wrong side in both world wars.
    So, Hitler should have won?

  33. #33
    In some of the posts I've read so far is complete poppy cock.

    First: feeding prisoners by locals, those with kinship, has never been done, due to contraband being in the food. To include guns and ammo. Not to mention knives, saws etc.

    Second: It has been a policy for ages, and I would note Andersonville, and Camp Douglas during the Civil War, to keep prisoners on a near starvation diet, to impede them returning to fighting. What? Did you think once the war had ended it was all peaches and cream? Forgive and forget, lets be buds?

    Third: Germans have never ever in my family history ever run towards Russia. Never Ever. The Russians raped EVERY German woman in Berlin, among whom was my mother. Her family lived in East Prussia, what is now, Kaliningrad, and once the tide turned on the eastern front they fled, because THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING. They lost everything. They fled to West Germany, if you will note in the German soccer league there are two teams whose names start with "Borussia" which is Latin for Prussia, which is where those fleeing the Russians settled. ALL Germans were force evacuated from East Prussia by the Russians, and many civilians were murdered. My aunts heritage is German-Polish, and if you don't know what that means you don't know history, her family was trying to get to West Germany when the blockade was set up, and they were trapped in East Germany, she didn't see her family for 50 years or so. She was the only one to get out.

    My Uncle by another aunt was captured by the American's and served in a POW camp. Even though he hated Americans he never said he wished he had of been captured by the Russians. In point of fact many Germans turned themselves in to the Americans in fear of being captured by the Russians.

    The OP sounds more like just how bad and dirty low down scum Americans are. Meaning a leftist view of history.

  34. #34
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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinwiesenlager

    The Rhine Meadows. Read it. Or not. "We" won. "They" lost. It happened.

    snip-

    Postwar conclusions

    In 1969, Lieutenant General Leonard D. Heaton prepared and published an exhaustive report for the United States Army Medical Department that examined preventive medicine and the problems associated with housing such a large number of German prisoners after World War II. The report found a number of problems, including:

    The army had lost track of some of the locations where POWs were held.[14]
    The number of prisoners greatly exceeded expectations.[15]
    Organization of the camps was left to prisoners.
    Food and water supplies were insufficient during April and May 1945, though they later improved.[16]
    The 1200 to 1500 calories ration that the Disarmed Enemy Forces were receiving in August 1945 was inadequate.[17]
    The lack of food led in some cases to "extensive malnutrition."[17]

    In 2003, historian Richard Dominic Wiggers argued that the Allies violated international law regarding the feeding of enemy civilians, and that they both directly and indirectly caused the unnecessary suffering and death of large numbers of civilians and prisoners in occupied Germany, guided partly by a spirit of postwar vengeance when creating the circumstances that contributed to their deaths.[18]
    From a fireball we came, crossed sea and mountain
    We were drinking beauty with our eyes
    We were given all to make our own, let us be left alone

    III

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Turret Buster View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinwiesenlager

    The Rhine Meadows. Read it. Or not. "We" won. "They" lost. It happened.

    snip-

    Postwar conclusions

    In 1969, Lieutenant General Leonard D. Heaton prepared and published an exhaustive report for the United States Army Medical Department that examined preventive medicine and the problems associated with housing such a large number of German prisoners after World War II. The report found a number of problems, including:

    The army had lost track of some of the locations where POWs were held.[14]
    The number of prisoners greatly exceeded expectations.[15]
    Organization of the camps was left to prisoners.
    Food and water supplies were insufficient during April and May 1945, though they later improved.[16]
    The 1200 to 1500 calories ration that the Disarmed Enemy Forces were receiving in August 1945 was inadequate.[17]
    The lack of food led in some cases to "extensive malnutrition."[17]

    In 2003, historian Richard Dominic Wiggers argued that the Allies violated international law regarding the feeding of enemy civilians, and that they both directly and indirectly caused the unnecessary suffering and death of large numbers of civilians and prisoners in occupied Germany, guided partly by a spirit of postwar vengeance when creating the circumstances that contributed to their deaths.[18]
    I would also note that your quote comes from Wikipedia a known wealth of information for lefties. Not saying some of the facts might be true, but the fog of war doesn't end with the war.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaryC View Post
    I would also note that your quote comes from Wikipedia a known wealth of information for lefties. Not saying some of the facts might be true, but the fog of war doesn't end with the war.
    I know, but.......the Rhine Meadows was a thing.

    Lest we forget, at the end of hostilities, Germany was seen as causing 2 world wars that killed millions. Bad things happen in war. It sucks all the way around.

    I used to drink with a German civilian who worked on our Base - Peden Barracks, Wertheim, W.Germany. He had a picture album of what happened to his country, during and after the war. It was very enlightening. There was stuff in there that wasn't taught in History class.
    His name was Links - translated to "Left" in German.
    From a fireball we came, crossed sea and mountain
    We were drinking beauty with our eyes
    We were given all to make our own, let us be left alone

    III

  37. #37
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    I am suspicious of accounts like this that are circulating now that we are engaged in a bitter ideological war in this country.

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Turret Buster View Post
    I know, but.......the Rhine Meadows was a thing.

    Lest we forget, at the end of hostilities, Germany was seen as causing 2 world wars that killed millions. Bad things happen in war. It sucks all the way around.

    I used to drink with a German civilian who worked on our Base - Peden Barracks, Wertheim, W.Germany. He had a picture album of what happened to his country, during and after the war. It was very enlightening. There was stuff in there that wasn't taught in History class.
    His name was Links - translated to "Left" in German.
    It does no doubt about that. I've got a "thing" where you insert a picture card into a viewer, and the whole thing is before and after pictures of the same area. It was really bad. And the ….History channel (?) ran a show a couple of weeks ago about after the war in Germany, very bad. A couple of hundred thousand orphans. Women working to remove bricks one bucket at a time and the bucket brigade ran for a mile or so. To the place where they cleaned the bricks for the rebuild. My dad was in the Army at the time and was there for "reconstruction", was when and where he met my mom.

    I've gotten my knowledge from people who were there, and they were family on the German side. As bad as I hate what happened to them during and after the war. It is the consequences of going to war.

    And if anyone thinks that is bad, it will be unimaginable if we ever have a CWII. And no one had better think it won't.

  39. #39
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    Some food for thought from the comments section at Amazon about this author and his books. I don't deny some of this happened, but to this scale and intent, I find hard to believe........

    https://www.amazon.com/Crimes-Mercie...ustomerReviews

    2.0 out of 5 starsBased on a true story, but still fiction

    ByM.Richon October 24, 2017

    Format: Paperback

    This book is more or less another fictional novel written by Mr. Bacque and this time he can claim based on a true story. He weaves some historical fact with mostly invented or twisted history to create his narrative. There is some fact involved as he describes what the Germans East of Berlin experienced as they were brutally ethnically cleansed from their ancestral lands and sent west by the Soviets. Many thousands perished in the forced expulsions, but not in the numbers Bacque reports as fact even though he is actually using his own amateur estimates for dramatic shock effect in order to get the requisite emotional response from his audience (a good novelist). He attempts to build on his previous work in "Other Losses", even though that book has been definitively proven to be false and his theory impossible. Overall, this is a work of fiction aimed at people vulnerable to conspiracy theories in order for James Bacque to profit financially, nothing more.

    One person found this helpful

    Comment Report abuse

    1.0 out of 5 starsYour best source is Rüdiger Overmans

    ByPaul Hofmanon October 19, 2016

    Format: Kindle Edition

    I am a man of German descent before I begin. German suffering was large after the country's capitulation, that it makes my heart bleed as well. The war should have never happened. I have studied post-occupational policy and the treatment of POWs during WW2 for quite some time now. If you want to know the truth, you need to look at German doctorates because they have the most knowledge on German casualties during WWII. Your best source is Rüdiger Overmans, who is a retired Bundeswher Colonel with extensive knowledge on the matter. He has all records and testimonies to back his claim. Open your eyes, and do your research through academia.

    Now to Hell Storm. Thomas Goodrich is a known White Supremacist and an active Holocaust Denier. Knowing that alone should make you wonder how much of this book/movie is unbiased. The truth is Hell Storm is not supported by a single doctorate of history, and has been labeled as a complete farce in the realm of historical academia. Notice that it isn't backed by any primary source documents, testimonies, and that it's author has no background in history or publicized written publications.

    YES, it is based off fact, and events like mass rapes, and killings certainly did happen on a massive scale, but the gross and abused revision of history in that book alone is so profound that it doesn't take a smart person to know when they are looking at revisionist garbage. I found multiple pieces of evidence that were flat out untrue. The fastest one that I can recall was Ehrenberg’s so-called call for the Red Army Soldiers to rape and murder civilians through leaflets. Not true. That was Nazi propaganda, made by the Nazis. The Nazis actively did this to strengthen the resolve of its Soldiers. Ehrenberg retracted even a leaflet called “Kill” inciting violence against Germans by sending out another leaflet to clarify that prisoners, surrendered soldiers, civilians, women, and children shall never be harmed.

    In Other Losses, James Bacque abuses his methodology in basic and simple computations. He claims that 1,000,000 POWs actually died at the Rhine Meadows Camps. Overmans, his associates, and other German professors, to include western professors in the U.S. have debunked such claims as completely impossible. Overman's assessment is that between 3,000-10,000 died out of 1,000,000-1,900,000 POWs detained at the Rhine Meadows Camps. His assessment is that 5,500 POWs died there, but due to other German professors and military war dead commissions citing different numbers (all below 10,000), the official assessment is between 3,000-10,000 POWs. Much of this was due to neglect from, sickness, war wounded attrition, and deprivation of basic sustenance amid the chaos. With that calculation taken into account, that is a 1.0% casualty rate at the very highest at the Rhine Meadow POW camps. Remember that the Rhine Camps only operated for 3-4 months.

    The US casualty rate of German POWs was among the lowest (after Britain) in comparison to any other Allied Power, especially when we take the Soviets into account. You know how the missing 1,000,000 was debunked officially beyond just historical analysis? The German War Graves Commission discovered over 1,000,000 Dead German Soldiers since 1993! Imagine that. There's your missing 1,000,000 "other losses". Don't blindly follow the blind. People like Bacque and Goodrich are out there for money, and have NO background in history, and have been debunked as providing false information by ALL GERMAN and Western professors of history.

    As for the food situation, records by history professors show that few people actually died. There was a proven mortality rate among older people and a 30% increase in infant mortality compared to the 1939 population, but did not lead to epidemic genocidal deaths as described here. Dr. Wiggers did an in-depth study on this and states that very clearly in his writings as the Associate Professor of History at the Royal Military College in Canada. YES, Europe was starving, and Germans were not the first in line. Food went to places like the Netherlands and Poland first because all of their food was stolen by the German Army. They were flat out dying. There may have not been a lot of food in Germany, but there was food, and their estimated cleric intake daily was 1500, not including those received on the black market. Maybe people need to stop believing what they hear and actually look at German census records. If you need help during your quest for knowledge, I suggest you turn towards the German War Graves Commission, the Maschke Commission, and doctorates of history.
    Last edited by Wild-T2; 01-12-2019 at 02:24 PM. Reason: Added link and cleaned up formatting
    “If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a small chance of survival. There may even be a worse case: You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.” Winston Churchill

  40. #40
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    Colorado
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    And don't forget the hundreds of thousands of POWs brought to America during the war and placed in some 700 camps. Americans paid for this.

    "At its peak in May 1945, a total of 425,871 POWs were held in the US. This included 371,683 Germans, 50,273 Italians, and 3,915 Japanese.[2]:272" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._United_States

    Many books have been written about these men and by these men that were prisoners. I have read several. They were treated well, they were well fed, many were allowed to work on neighboring farms. Some even returned to America. The Geneva Convention was strictly followed for prisoners on American soil....I've read that's because our military was hoping/thinking the Germans were taking care of their American POWs per the Geneva Convention too - nope, many of their American POWs were starved, ill treated, and moved on death marches - yes, death marches. That didn't happen here in America.

    It's always good to get as much of the BIG picture as one can get.

    There were POW camps for Germans in Colorado during the war. One near me. There is a story of how a German prisoner escaped and showed up at the Johnstown bar - they found him there having a beer. He said that's all he wanted was a beer. The German POWs liked this area of northern Colorado because there are many of German heritage here that are farmers and could speak German and the prisoners were allowed to work on their farms. Wish the Germans had treated our men as well; one can read their stories too. If it wasn't for the Red Cross packages many more would have starved to death.

    In all my comments on this thread, I'm just showing that Americans did a lot - sacrificed a lot in men, blood, sweat, and $$ to help prevent and alleviate more suffering. But war is war. No one came away from it the same.
    Last edited by Chance; 01-12-2019 at 03:21 PM.
    "Apres la Guerre."

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