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LEGAL NC county fought for public prayer, and lost. Now it has to pay the ACLU $285k
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  1. #1
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    NC county fought for public prayer, and lost. Now it has to pay the ACLU $285k

    http://www.newsobserver.com/news/sta...224219600.html

    NC county fought for public prayer, and lost. Now it has to pay the ACLU $285k

    Charles Duncan
    The Supreme Court declined to hear the case about prayer at Rowan County, North Carolina commission meetings.
    A federal judge found the way the Rowan County Commission prayed before public meetings unconstitutional. An appeals court eventually agreed and the Supreme Court last summer declined to hear the case brought by the American Civil Liberties Union, federal court records show. Now the county will have to pay the ACLU’s legal bills for the five-year legal fight: $285,000.

    On Monday, County Commission members voted to pay the bill, the Salisbury Post reports.

    “We are obviously very unhappy with this and I think a few of us are, probably, physically sick to our stomach that we have to do this, but this is the risk that we took,” County Commission Chair Greg Edds said, according to the newspaper.

    The lawsuit dates back to 2013 when three Rowan County residents sued the county commission over the public prayer at the beginning of each meeting, according to court filings. The commission chair or members give a prayer at the beginning of each meeting, the lawsuit says, and over six years 97 percent of prayers were Christian.

    An appeals court sided with the residents, represented by the ACLU, in 2017. “For years on end, the elected members of the county’s Board of Commissioners composed and delivered pointedly sectarian invocations. They rotated the prayer opportunity amongst themselves; no one else was permitted to offer an invocation,” a judge with the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals wrote.

    “The prayers are invariably and unmistakably Christian in content,” the judges’ opinion notes, finding the Rowan County Commission’s public prayer unconstitutional.

    Over the summer the U.S. Supreme Court declined to hear the case, court records show, which upholds the ruling and ended the legal fight.

    “The Supreme Court did not give an explanation for its decision as is customary in orders. Justice Clarence Thomas joined by Justice Neil Gorsuch dissented from the court’s refusal to take the case,” according to The Hill.

    “Thomas said the Fourth Circuit’s decision is ‘both unfaithful to our precedents and ahistorical,’” The Hill wrote.

    “This case has always been about making Rowan County more welcoming to people of all beliefs, and we are so glad that the Supreme Court has let this ruling stand,” said Nan Lund, one of the plaintiffs in the case, according to an ACLU press release.

    “This is an important victory for the rights of all people to be free from religious coercion by government officials,” ACLU of North Carolina’s Chris Brook said. “People who attend public meetings should not have to fear that government officials may force them to participate in a prayer—or discriminate against them if they don’t.”

    Mayor Jennifer Roberts and Charlotte City Council may be ending a long-standing tradition of starting its meetings with a prayer. On Monday, Roberts told the audience that they had been in a meeting with attorneys to discuss several recent court c

    By McClatchy

  2. #2
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    How did Kavanaugh vote?
    What was the vote?
    SS
    “Then the creatures of the high air answered to the battle, .., and the woods trembled and the wind sobbed telling them, the earth shook,; the witches of the valley, and the wolves of the forests, howled from every quarter and on every side of the armies, urging them against one another.”
    ― Lady Gregory, Gods and Fighting Men: The Story of the Tuatha De Danaan and the Fianna of Ireland

  3. #3
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    The court declined to hear the case. There was no vote.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shacknasty Shagrat View Post
    How did Kavanaugh vote?
    What was the vote?
    SS
    This is pre-Kavanaugh, I think.

  5. #5
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    Actually Justice Clarence Thomas joined by Justice Neil Gorsuch dissented from the court’s refusal to take the case,

    In other words Thomas and Gorsuch wanted to hear the case but the majority of justices did not.
    “I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.”
    D. H. Lawrence

  6. #6
    Why pay? Is the ACLU going to garnish tax revenue?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Commander View Post
    Why pay? Is the ACLU going to garnish tax revenue?
    Because that's what the court ordered.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by NC Susan View Post
    Over the summer the U.S. Supreme Court declined to hear the case, court records show, which upholds the ruling and ended the legal fight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shacknasty Shagrat View Post
    How did Kavanaugh vote?
    Quote Originally Posted by Blacknarwhal View Post
    This is pre-Kavanaugh, I think.
    Yep, it was over the summer, before Kavanaugh was on the bench.

    HD
    The future keeps telling us what the past was about. You make the past mean different things by the way you use the time that come after.- A. Fancy

  9. #9
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    I wonder if there is a way to contribute to help with this judgement?

  10. #10
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    Mahvin the lawya at it again, Gods chosen people's union, working over time for satan.
    "His golden colored hair and beard gave to his appearance a celestial aspect, His eyes grey clear. He came from racial lines which had blue eyes and golden hair. This granted unlimited freedom provoked the Jews, Jesus of Nazareth spoke rather as a friend of the Romans than of the Jews." http://www.thenazareneway.com/likene...ur_saviour.htm

  11. #11
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    Florida
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    This whole thing could have been avoided if the Rowan County Commission would have just let other county residents give their own prayer once in a while. By only allowing their own exclusive Christian prayers and no other residents they screwed themselves. It was a county resident who had standing to bring the lawsuit. By letting him or other county residents offer their own prayer once or twice a year, this would have been avoided.

    I believe this kind of case went to the SC before and they ruled that a short prayer before a government meeting was ok as long as it wasn't restricted to only one religious sect or prayer. Setting aside one or two meetings a year for a citizen led prayer would have solved the problem and saved a lot of money.
    “I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.”
    D. H. Lawrence

  12. #12
    OP:

    The lawsuit dates back to 2013 when three Rowan County residents sued the county commission over the public prayer at the beginning of each meeting, according to court filings.
    bold: Names?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Snyper View Post
    Because that's what the court ordered.
    Again just because the court ordered it who and how is it going to be enforced? Andy Jackson that hero of the Democratic party ignored the Supreme Court. How is the ACLU going to enforce payment if the country just says no?
    Last edited by Orion Commander; 01-12-2019 at 02:31 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by vestige View Post
    OP:



    bold: Names?
    Somewhere in this link

    http://www.aclu.org/news/aclu-and-nc...ounty-meetings


    NancyLund, Robert Volker and Liesa Montag-Siegel
    http://www.aclu.org/sites/default/fi...lund_et_al.pdf

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Commander View Post
    Again just because the court ordered it who and how is it going to be enforced? Andy Jackson that hero of the Democratic party ignored the Supreme Court.
    Do you really want the Govt to ignore court orders?

    How is the ACLU going to enforce payment if the country just says no?
    The ACLU doesn't enforce anything.

  16. #16
    Join Date
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    Florida
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Commander View Post
    Again just because the court ordered it who and how is it going to be enforced? Andy Jackson that hero of the Democratic party ignored the Supreme Court. How is the ACLU going to enforce payment if the country just says no?
    Court judgements for money happen every day. The party awarded a judgement can use that judgement to attach the city's bank account or even confiscate property up to that amount. All cities keep their funds in banks.
    Additional expenses such as lawyers etc. required to force non compliant payment can then be grounds for additional lawsuits for even more money.
    “I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself.”
    D. H. Lawrence

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