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OT/MISC Earth's magnetic North Pole is shifting rapidly
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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Capt. Eddie View Post
    By the way a course is NEVER plotted using magnetic headings by ANY professional mariner or aviator. All ATONS (aids to navigation) eg. charts, light list, racons, buoy, coast pilot , etc reference ONLY TRUE headings or bearings as the case may be.
    just out of curiosity...what is a CAT II ILS approach based on..true or magnetic?

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanstaafl View Post
    You're confusing a magnetic pole reversal with geographic pole shifts. The Earth's rotational axis won't shift and Polaris will work just fine to point you towards the "old" North Pole.

    edited to add: in any case, Polaris doesn't show you the magnetic north pole
    Further details; axial precession, about 26,000 years
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_precession
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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon50 View Post
    just out of curiosity...what is a CAT II ILS approach based on..true or magnetic?
    For those of us unawares, what is used in such an approach?
    GPS, some kind of radio beacons from the airport, compass?
    "...Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the cats of war..."
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  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Profit of Doom View Post
    For those of us unawares, what is used in such an approach?
    GPS, some kind of radio beacons from the airport, compass?
    Instrument landing system...aircraft....runway centerline w/vertical guidance ...xmitter on airport
    Last edited by Falcon50; 01-10-2019 at 10:22 PM. Reason: addition

  5. #85
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    Some videos from Magneticreversal.org, a website from Suspicious0bserver.

    http://youtu.be/mhYdYD2CsnA
    https://youtu.be/mhYdYD2CsnA Runtime: 20 seconds

    This video show the progression of the North and South Magnetic poles from 1600 - 2015.
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  6. #86
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    Since it provides a defense against solar and astro radiation, I wonder if the solar minimum is triggering it, when the solar radiation is at its lowest. I wonder if this is what chemtrails and all that research at the south pole is all about. They did say that during a shift, there would be a much higher incidence of cancers.
    "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." George Orwell

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    I knew a gal in college that was something like that. <ducking and running>
    Chrome off a trailer hitch?
    "...Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the cats of war..."
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    If it works, it doesn't have enough features. - Windows 10 design philosophy.
    Forget the beer, I'm just here for the doom!
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  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by BornFree View Post
    A thought just occurred to me.

    I would assume that if the magnetic North pole is changing then a magnetic South pole must be changing as well ? I mean there is not such thing as magnet with only one pole. Can the south pole stay fixed?
    Compasses only point to one pole for purposes of navigation.
    Maps show "true North" and "magnetic North" and the proper declination for a given longitude.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyper View Post
    Compasses only point to one pole for purposes of navigation.
    Maps show "true North" and "magnetic North" and the proper declination for a given longitude.
    I would think if you were in the south, the compass “south” pole would be doing the pointing, rather than the “north” pole. We northerners are always guilty of “northism”, we belong on the top of the map/globe, etc.
    "...Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the cats of war..."
    Razor sharpening while you wait - Occam
    If it works, it doesn't have enough features. - Windows 10 design philosophy.
    Forget the beer, I'm just here for the doom!
    Humans, just a tool for amino acids to make Swiss watches.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Profit of Doom View Post
    I would think if you were in the south, the compass “south” pole would be doing the pointing, rather than the “north” pole. We northerners are always guilty of “northism”, we belong on the top of the map/globe, etc.
    Every compass I've ever seen had North marked on the needle, and every map shows the declination of Magnetic North, so your position relative to the Equator doesn't seem to matter as far as which Pole is used to orient the maps, but the direction and amount of the declination will change based on your East/West positions.

    The declination marked on older maps may be incorrect now, but now you can look it up online to find the right angles.

    This WIKI article explains a lot of it.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_declination

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Profit of Doom View Post
    Very informative and well written.
    Based on this, would runway numbers actually change, or did someone make an ass-u-me-mption based on ignorance way back on this thread?
    The runway numbers would not change, as they are True headings, like all ATONS. The number on the chart would be the Only thing that would change.

    As I mentioned the magnetic pole actually wanders around quite a bit normally. I have seen many chart corrections over the years, not on a weekly or even monthly basis but depending on when the chart was last published it's not unusual to have a correction for deviation

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  13. #93
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    Mnuemonic device to remember the corrections is:

    True = True heading

    Virgins = Variation

    Make = Magnetic

    Dull = Deviation

    Company = Compass

    Deviation and variation are both listed as east or west. When correcting from compass to true you add east and subtract west. When moving from true to compass you subtract east and add west.

  14. #94
    Would an EMP make it straighten back out?

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon50 View Post
    just out of curiosity...what is a CAT II ILS approach based on..true or magnetic?
    I'm only familiar with VFR , but I believe and this is speculation on my part, that ILS is based on triangulation from FBO transmitters and functions in a very similar, although much more advanced andbautomated, manner to the old LORAN system of shore based transmitters used for costal navigation. If that is the case the system would without a doubt be calibrated to TRUE north not Magnetic north.

  16. #96
    Humans may experience extreme vertigo.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt. Eddie View Post
    The runway numbers would not change, as they are True headings, like all ATONS. The number on the chart would be the Only thing that would change.

    As I mentioned the magnetic pole actually wanders around quite a bit normally. I have seen many chart corrections over the years, not on a weekly or even monthly basis but depending on when the chart was last published it's not unusual to have a correction for deviation
    Actually not all runways are based on true north headings. If they are based on magnetic north then they will have to be renamed occasionally.

    https://aviation.stackexchange.com/q...runway-numbers

  18. #98
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    What is the Currie point of iron and how is flowing iron able to produce magnetism?
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  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSTemplar View Post
    What is the Currie point of iron and how is flowing iron able to produce magnetism?
    Oh, you are asking something above this realm's knowledge level. Magnetic fields are generated when conductors move through an electric field. We have an electric universe and as the solar emissions decrease, so does our magnetic field. That is when we are more exposed to sudden blasts- when our shield is reduced.

  20. #100
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    Light Echo, I completely agree with you that we have an electric universe. We certainly were not taught this concept in government schools. Yet another thing that I have had to unlearn. Check out Ben Davidson’s video on this very topic from this morning. Their YT channel is Suspicious Observers. While I do not agree with a lot of his views, he does cover the coming magnetic pole reversal in good detail. This 6:34 minute video is worth the watch. The specific discussion on this acceleration of the reversal is covered from the 2:40 mark to 4:07. Here’s the video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4nbEqZ2T84

    If you want to learn a ton about this upcoming reversal, you can watch the referenced video The Shift Has Begun, which Davidson did on 2/27/2018. That is a one hour and 7 minute video that can be seen here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsqZJP54shg

    Will the reversal happen? Absolutely. In our lifetimes? Only God knows. Will it leave a mark? Hell yes.
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  21. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith357 View Post
    Would an EMP make it straighten back out?
    The shrinking of the Earth's magnetic field was the subject of the 2003 movie Core. The heroes of this SF story were to use a nuclear bomb to jump start the molten core to spin again. They built a special craft made of "unobtanium" to withstand the heat and pressure of the earth. "B" movie at best.

  22. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon50 View Post
    Instrument landing system...aircraft....runway centerline w/vertical guidance ...xmitter on airport
    From what I understand, altitude is provided by the aircraft transponder these days. I saw a show where the static pitot tubes had been taped over and the error not corrected. The a/c computers saw the altitude as 9700' when in fact they were about to crash into the sea.

  23. #103
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    More info - and yes, the government shutdown is being blamed for information on this pole shifting coming out later than expected:

    Shifting north magnetic pole forces unprecedented navigation fix
    by Reuters Friday, 11 January 2019 15:41 GMT

    Magnetic pole moving fast, across Arctic Ocean
    U.S.-UK scientists to update five-year magnetic model early
    U.S. military requests update to help navigation

    By Alister Doyle

    OSLO, Jan 11 (Reuters) - Rapid shifts in the Earth's north magnetic pole are forcing researchers to make an unprecedented early update to a model that helps navigation by ships, planes and submarines in the Arctic, scientists said.

    Compass needles point towards the north magnetic pole, a point which has crept unpredictably from the coast of northern Canada a century ago to the middle of the Arctic Ocean, moving towards Russia.

    "It's moving at about 50 km (30 miles) a year. It didn't move much between 1900 and 1980 but it's really accelerated in the past 40 years," Ciaran Beggan, of the British Geological Survey in Edinburgh, told Reuters on Friday.

    A five-year update of a World Magnetic Model was due in 2020 but the U.S. military requested an unprecedented early review, he said. The BGS runs the model with the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

    Beggan said the moving pole affected navigation, mainly in the Arctic Ocean north of Canada. NATO and the U.S. and British militaries are among those using the magnetic model, as well as civilian navigation.

    The wandering pole is driven by unpredictable changes in liquid iron deep inside the Earth. An update will be released on January 30, the journal Nature said, delayed from January 15 because of the U.S. government shutdown.

    "The fact that the pole is going fast makes this region more prone to large errors," Arnaud Chulliat, a geomagnetist at the University of Colorado Boulder and NOAA's National Centers for Environmental Information, told Nature.

    Beggan said the recent shifts in the north magnetic pole would be unnoticed by most people outside the Arctic, for instance using smartphones in New York, Beijing or London.

    Navigation systems in cars or phones rely on radio waves from satellites high above the Earth to pinpoint their position on the ground.

    "It doesn't really affect mid or low latitudes," Beggan said. "It wouldn't really affect anyone driving a car."
    Many smartphones have inbuilt compasses to help to orientate maps or games such as Pokemon Go. In most places, however, the compass would be pointing only fractionally wrong, within errors allowed in the five-year models, Beggan said. (Reporting by Alister Doyle)

    Link: http://news.trust.org/item/20190111153455-9u077
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  24. #104
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    There has been some talk of this on FB. These were posted. They are saying when it moves to the 40 degrees...I am assuming angle that it will shift. At the current rate of movement it will take 8 years.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by SSTemplar View Post
    What is the Currie point of iron and how is flowing iron able to produce magnetism?
    Now you've done it, tossing another complication into this mess.

  26. #106
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    Based on that graph, I'm seeing a 500 mile drift in 90 years, but a 1000 mile drift in only 28 years. That's a little scary.

  27. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Profit of Doom View Post
    Wake up everybody!
    The OP is about the magnetic poles, NOT the rotational poles. The equator is related to rotation, as are the weather systems. The rotational poles, and the equator, are not going to shift like the magnetic poles as discussed.
    The Earth being flat, it is not possible for the rotational poles to reverse without the Earth folding up like an origami crane.
    You forget something or just dont understand the make yo of a magnet?
    Magnets are dipole just as the earth is a dipole.
    However, every magnet has a line of inertia running perpendicular of the poles.
    This line of inertia doesnt have a north or a south (equator).
    As the poles move so does this line of inertia. So if the poles are where the equator is the line of inertia is running up and down. This will cause jet streams to act differently resulting in weather changes.
    I believe the poles shifting is causing climate changes that is now being blamed on man made green house gases.
    And since the current model of inner earth's core is a rotating ball firing and nickel the moving of the line of inertia will affect rotation axis.
    As if right now all the planet are rotating around the sun on its line of inertia.
    The sun is a huge magnet and so is the earth.
    I just last week watched a YouTube video of a guy who tracks the moon location. He has people calling him everyday saying theres something g odd about the moon.
    One caller said the moon is not in its normal place so this guy went outside and compared the computer model position if the moon to what he witnessed outside his back door.
    The moon was more to the right and lower than what he was used to seeing.
    So with that the moon rotates around the earth line of inertia and that line move as the magnetic poles move.
    Everything is moving so take notice that jet streams are going change and the moons pull on earth as it moves off its traditional rotation will effect the weather pattern.
    Earth quakes are on the rise and that means a possible rotational alignment is happening.

  28. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon50 View Post
    just out of curiosity...what is a CAT II ILS approach based on..true or magnetic?
    There's nothing compass-related about ILS.

    Think of it as: three invisible (horizontal) triangular planes of light (except they're radio waves) projected from the runway out into the approach lane. Top one is Red, middle one is Green, bottom one is Red. Don't go above or below the Red triangles, and try to stay exactly in the middle (horizontally and vertically) of the Green triangle... The only other thing you need to do, is make sure you're at the correct airspeed (decelerating) as you pass through each approach marker (invisible vertical planes) - these stats will be listed on the approach chart for whatever airport you are landing at.

    ETA:
    Even if the magnetic Pole was moving 100 miles a day, the LOCAL heading for each airport would be reliable enough for the Tower to direct planes into the approach path: a heading of 120 at twenty miles will be the same as 120 at the strip.
    Last edited by Mark D; 01-11-2019 at 01:37 PM.

  29. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Olson View Post
    Based on that graph, I'm seeing a 500 mile drift in 90 years, but a 1000 mile drift in only 28 years. That's a little scary.
    Dennis, besides what I posted above from Ben Davidson as a resource, this Brit has a YT channel that is worth watching on this subject. He has actually built an observatory to monitor this movement. His equipment measures this movement every three seconds, which he posts on his website. He has witnessed this acceleration of the magnetic north pole movement.

    Watch this 2:29 video he put out a month ago on this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fd3qT_WpFiA
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  30. There are other issues I understand and great concern.

    Our sun protects the earth from hazardous cosmic radiation by the Suns solar activity. Right now since we are at a solar minimum, radiation as detected on planes is increasing. See Spaceweather.com

    The Earths magnetic field also protects us from some cosmic radiation.

    It's my understanding that a magnetic polar shift is not an instant event, it happens over a period of years.
    During the shift the Earths protective magnetic field is impaired and we lose it protective shielding effects for many decades.

    Cancer cases are sure to soar.

  31. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7th trump View Post
    You forget something or just dont understand the make yo of a magnet?
    Magnets are dipole just as the earth is a dipole.
    However, every magnet has a line of inertia running perpendicular of the poles.
    This line of inertia doesnt have a north or a south (equator).
    As the poles move so does this line of inertia. So if the poles are where the equator is the line of inertia is running up and down. This will cause jet streams to act differently resulting in weather changes.
    I believe the poles shifting is causing climate changes that is now being blamed on man made green house gases.
    And since the current model of inner earth's core is a rotating ball firing and nickel the moving of the line of inertia will affect rotation axis.
    As if right now all the planet are rotating around the sun on its line of inertia.
    The sun is a huge magnet and so is the earth.
    I just last week watched a YouTube video of a guy who tracks the moon location. He has people calling him everyday saying theres something g odd about the moon.
    One caller said the moon is not in its normal place so this guy went outside and compared the computer model position if the moon to what he witnessed outside his back door.
    The moon was more to the right and lower than what he was used to seeing.
    So with that the moon rotates around the earth line of inertia and that line move as the magnetic poles move.
    Everything is moving so take notice that jet streams are going change and the moons pull on earth as it moves off its traditional rotation will effect the weather pattern.
    Earth quakes are on the rise and that means a possible rotational alignment is happening.
    Let’s define a few terms here. The magnetic poles are the subject of the OP. No doubt a magnetic field has a middle, what you appear to be calling an equator. Nobody else calls it that, compasses don’t care about it, and it just confuses things, so no “magnetic equator”. The rotational equator is that circle at 0 latitude that goes thru Ecuador. It’s not going to move. The moon does not align itself with the magnetic field, poles, or “equator”, nor is it aligned with the real equator. The moon is not moving from where it should be, no earthly pole shift of any sort will cause that to happen.

    Moon on the wrong place? Heard that a lot from GLP years ago. Just as stupid now as then. Are eclipses happening exactly as predicted years ago? Yes? Moon is not out of place.
    "...Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the cats of war..."
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  32. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double_A View Post
    There are other issues I understand and great concern.

    Our sun protects the earth from hazardous cosmic radiation by the Suns solar activity. Right now since we are at a solar minimum, radiation as detected on planes is increasing. See Spaceweather.com

    The Earths magnetic field also protects us from some cosmic radiation.

    It's my understanding that a magnetic polar shift is not an instant event, it happens over a period of years.
    During the shift the Earths protective magnetic field is impaired and we lose it protective shielding effects for many decades.

    Cancer cases are sure to soar.

    Solarham.net is another excellent site for all sorts of information on the Sun.
    People are quick to confuse and despise confidence as arrogance but that is common amongst those who have never accomplished anything in their lives and who have always played it safe not willing to risk failure.

  33. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Profit of Doom View Post
    Wake up everybody!
    The OP is about the magnetic poles, NOT the rotational poles. The equator is related to rotation, as are the weather systems. The rotational poles, and the equator, are not going to shift like the magnetic poles as discussed.
    The Earth being flat, it is not possible for the rotational poles to reverse without the Earth folding up like an origami crane.
    You forget something or just dont understand the make yo of a magnet?
    Magnets are dipole just as the earth is a dipole.
    However, every magnet has a line of inertia running perpendicular of the poles.
    This line of inertia doesnt have a north or a south (equator).
    As the poles move so does this line of inertia. So if the poles are where the equator is the line of inertia is running up and down. This will cause jet streams to act differently resulting in weather changes.
    I believe the poles shifting is causing climate changes that is now being blamed on man made green house gases.
    And since the current model of inner earth's core is a rotating ball firing and nickel the moving of the line of inertia will affect rotation axis.
    As if right now all the planet are rotating around the sun on its line of inertia.
    The sun is a huge magnet and so is the earth.
    I just last week watched a YouTube video of a guy who tracks the moon location. He has people calling him everyday saying theres something g odd about the moon.
    One caller said the moon is not in its normal place so this guy went outside and compared the computer model position if the moon to what he witnessed outside his back door.
    The moon was more to the right and lower than what he was used to seeing.
    So with that the moon rotates around the earth line of inertia and that line move as the magnetic poles move.
    Everything is moving so take notice that jet streams are going change and the moons pull on earth as it moves off its traditional rotation will effect the weather pattern.
    Earth quakes are on the rise and that means a possible rotational alignment is happening.

  34. #114
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    You just reposted your post #107.
    Do try to keep up.
    Would like me to repost my reply?
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    Forget the beer, I'm just here for the doom!
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  35. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by smith357 View Post
    Would an EMP make it straighten back out?
    No, that takes VIAGRA

  36. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Profit of Doom View Post
    Let’s define a few terms here. The magnetic poles are the subject of the OP. No doubt a magnetic field has a middle, what you appear to be calling an equator. Nobody else calls it that, compasses don’t care about it, and it just confuses things, so no “magnetic equator”. The rotational equator is that circle at 0 latitude that goes thru Ecuador. It’s not going to move. The moon does not align itself with the magnetic field, poles, or “equator”, nor is it aligned with the real equator. The moon is not moving from where it should be, no earthly pole shift of any sort will cause that to happen.

    Moon on the wrong place? Heard that a lot from GLP years ago. Just as stupid now as then. Are eclipses happening exactly as predicted years ago? Yes? Moon is not out of place.
    Ok
    You dont know magnets have a line of inertia besides having two poles.
    It's the demarcation between the compass pointing north or south.
    This line of inertia is magnetic inertia and very apparent under a ferrocell.
    Currents follow the lines of inertia and has been proven under tests. Under test liquid has flowed following these lines of inertia.
    The top of a magnet under a ferrocell has the pattern of a pine cone.
    Do you have a ferrocell to see and study magnetism?
    Of course you dont, but I do.
    All magnets have a line of inertia including all celestial bodies with an active magnetic core.
    When the magnetic poles move so does the line of inertia.
    This line of inertia effects everything at the equator.
    If the north pole move east then the line of inertia west side will move up apportionately as the east side moves down. It means if the poles decide to shift so will the line of inertia. Its magnetic and the jet stream is effected by the shift.

    You need to watch some YT videos explaining magnetism and its line of inertia. I'll guarantee you that you know nothing about magnets or gravity before watching this guy.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9S3ikiL3Ow
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLqozv4XkPA
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=335cF3P-8n8Tyhe
    Guy is a bit arrogant but I suspect you can handle it.
    Last edited by 7th trump; 01-11-2019 at 05:12 PM.

  37. #117
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    The NOVA video seems to indicate that it won't be a tidy flip. New areas will appear in the magma that will run in the opposite direction. (Sort of like the globs in a lava lamp.) This will create multiple axis until there is finally enough mass running in the opposite direction to precipitate the flip from north to south.
    Attached Images
    Last edited by marsh; 01-11-2019 at 06:00 PM.
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  38. #118
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    A magnetic field change is not going to produce an orbital or rotational change. And if it did, it would take thousands of years to become significant. At a minimum.

  39. #119
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    The moon does not know nor care about our magnetic field, nor is such field going to relocate the moon in its orbit.
    I have no doubt the magnetic poles are moving and eventually going to flip, with possible bad effects on us, from radiation and maybe weather changes. Nothing on earth or moon regarding non-magnetic effects is going to happen, like flips, wobbles, pauses, etc.
    See post #64
    "...Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the cats of war..."
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    Forget the beer, I'm just here for the doom!
    Humans, just a tool for amino acids to make Swiss watches.

  40. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Profit of Doom View Post
    The moon does not know nor care about our magnetic field, nor is such field going to relocate the moon in its orbit.
    I have no doubt the magnetic poles are moving and eventually going to flip, with possible bad effects on us, from radiation and maybe weather changes. Nothing on earth or moon regarding non-magnetic effects is going to happen, like flips, wobbles, pauses, etc.
    See post #64
    Says the guy who doesnt understand magnetism. Or for that matter what magnetism "IS"!
    So I guess you're gonna try and convince me none of the planets orbit the sun on a plane centered with the suns equator? And that all scientists are incorrect about the planetary rotational paths?
    Ok...what ever!

    The moon orbits earth orbiting along earths magnetic inertia plane. If the poles shift the inertia plane shifts and if that shifts then the moon is effected. The moon rotates dead center along the inertia plane like all the planets orbit the suns center mass circular plane (inertia plane).
    The sun is one huge magnet and all its planets are caught in the suns inertia plane. This magnetic field extends far past pluto. Voyager1 just pasted outside of the suns magnetic sphere last year and is now in deep deep space. Magnetic sensors went nuts on the voyager1 probe and then went dead within a few months NASA predicted it should pass outside of it.

    Sorry you dont understand magnetism but hey it is what it is.
    Last edited by 7th trump; 01-11-2019 at 05:29 PM.

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