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OT/MISC FUNG ADVISORY: Government Shutdown OR No Shutdown....Pelosi Rejects Paying for the Wall
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  1. #1

    FUNG ADVISORY: Government Shutdown OR No Shutdown....Pelosi Rejects Paying for the Wall

    https://apnews.com/e3fd315c66554c22bfdf97710e0df711

    WASHINGTON (AP) — House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi on Thursday rejected the idea of paying for President Donald Trump’s border wall in exchange for helping hundreds of thousands of young immigrants avoid deportation.

    Funding for the wall — a top Trump priority — and legal protections for so-called Dreamers, a key Democratic goal, should not be linked, Pelosi said.

    “They’re two different subjects,” she said.

    Her comments came as the House and Senate approved a stopgap bill Thursday to keep the government funded through Dec. 21. The measure, approved by voice votes in near-empty chambers, now goes to the White House.

    Trump has promised to sign the two-week extension to allow for ceremonies this week honoring former President George H.W. Bush, who died Nov. 30. But he wants the next funding package to include at least $5 billion for his proposed wall, something Democrats have rejected. Trump is set to meet Tuesday at the White House with Pelosi and Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer.

    Pelosi, who is seeking to become House speaker in January, said the lame-duck Congress should now pass a half-dozen government funding bills that key committees have already agreed on, along with a separate measure funding the Department of Homeland Security, which oversees the border. Funding for the homeland agency should address border security and does not necessarily include a wall, Pelosi said.

    Most Democrats consider the wall “immoral, ineffective, expensive,” Pelosi said, noting that Trump promised during the 2016 campaign that Mexico would pay for it, an idea Mexican leaders have repeatedly rejected.

    Even if Mexico did pay for the wall, “it’s immoral still,” Pelosi said.

    Protecting borders “is a responsibility we honor, but we do so by honoring our values as well,” she added.

    Schumer said Thursday that a bipartisan Senate plan for $1.6 billion in border security fundingdoes not include money for the 30-foot-high (9-meter-high) concrete wall Trump has envisioned. The money “can only be used for fencing” and technology that experts say is appropriate and makes sense as a security feature, Schumer said.

    “This is something Democrats have always been for: smart, effective, appropriate border security,” he said on the Senate floor.

    If Republicans object to the proposal because of pressure from Trump, Schumer said lawmakers should follow Pelosi’s advice and approve six appropriations bills and a separate measure extending current funding for Homeland Security.
    Sow the Wind....Reap the Whirlwind

  2. #2
    It's showtime .....and Mr. Trump must face his adversaries ............Either he will back down and not shut down the government AND also not receive funding for a border wall OR????????????????
    Sow the Wind....Reap the Whirlwind

  3. #3
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    SHUT IT DOWN.

    Let it run on empty till this crap stops.
    The wonder of our time isn’t how angry we are at politics and politicians; it’s how little we’ve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dozdoats View Post
    SHUT IT DOWN.

    Let it run on empty till this crap stops.
    I agree
    "Man is not to be blamed for sinning. After all, he faces great temptations and is extremely vulnerable. What he is blamed for is not doing Teshuvah (repenting) because he can do that at any time." Rav Simcha Bunim of P'shischa

  5. #5
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    Trump said he would sign this latest (SPIT), 'stop-gap' bill which funds through 12/21, but he needs to SHUT IT DOWN if he doesn't get funding for the wall on 12/21.

    I realize it will be a 'partial' shutdown, so here are the 3 agencies I think should be open during the shutdown: (I'm curious to see... IF WE COULD ONLY PICK 3 AGENCIES TO FUNCTION AND KEEP GETTING PAID - which 3 agencies everyone else here would pick???)

    WHO pays out social security? Treasury??? Whichever agency is responsible for paying out SS should stay open

    Military - the military should get their pay. PERIOD!

    DHS - which involves our boarders

    The rest? SHUT IT DOWN! NO PAY for Senators and Congress critters during shutdown and they can't leave until they pass a full budget. Send all the federal employees home w/o pay (and it's not retroactive when they get back to work either and this includes House & Senate)

    Everything else gets shut down. YES!!!...IT HAS TO BE PAINFUL so the Dems have their constituents screaming into their voice mails daily. Paul Ryan, along with the Never Trumpers and Dems, purposely have not come up with a full year funding package YET AGAIN, I believe to make Trump look weak. I am so sick of this $hit I could scream! Time for Trump to show them he's not playin anymore!
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  6. #6
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    If DJT doesn't shut it down, he doesn't have a hair on his ass.
    The wonder of our time isn’t how angry we are at politics and politicians; it’s how little we’ve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by doctor_fungcool View Post
    It's showtime .....and Mr. Trump must face his adversaries ............Either he will back down and not shut down the government AND also not receive funding for a border wall OR????????????????
    Or things go "boom" with Iran or Russia or Beijing and or Pyongyang...take your pick of black swans and the eggs as well as other stuff they lay....

  9. #9
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    If the silo covers slide back again like they did on 9-11, the rest of the world will STFU and sit down until thing settle down in the FUSA.
    The wonder of our time isn’t how angry we are at politics and politicians; it’s how little we’ve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

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    Trump has to do something, or his base will start to leave him. GM leaving, the budget...he'd better put up or shut up.
    A socialist will trample over one hundred poor people just for the chance to throw a rock at a rich man.

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    Has he signed this "RULE" about bump stocks yet?
    He will lose a big part of his base if he does. And if he doesn't get the funding for the wall, he will lose another big chunk of his base.
    We'll all see just what he is made of in a little while, won't we?
    "You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end – which you can never afford to lose – with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be." — VADM James Stockdale, USN (1923-2005)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dozdoats View Post
    SHUT IT DOWN.

    Let it run on empty till this crap stops.
    Meanwhile, the Senate keeps posting judges and tearing apart the deep state. How about THAT, Dems? How valuable your House now?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunny225 View Post
    Has he signed this "RULE" about bump stocks yet?
    He will lose a big part of his base if he does. And if he doesn't get the funding for the wall, he will lose another big chunk of his base.
    We'll all see just what he is made of in a little while, won't we?
    "BIG" part? Are you serious? You think that many people are invested in a piece of tacticool nonsense that only barely works?

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    Quote Originally Posted by doctor_fungcool View Post
    It's showtime .....and Mr. Trump must face his adversaries ............Either he will back down and not shut down the government AND also not receive funding for a border wall OR????????????????
    SHUT IT DOWN!

    Definitely time for Trump to start acting and stop with the dramatic, empty promises.
    "Talking is easy and everyone is wise after the event."

    Ernest Joyce

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Sunday View Post
    SHUT IT DOWN!

    Definitely time for Trump to start acting and stop with the dramatic, empty promises.
    Yep. I agree will all of the posts: it's put up or shut up time. There can be no waffling on this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacknarwhal View Post
    "BIG" part? Are you serious? You think that many people are invested in a piece of tacticool nonsense that only barely works?
    You are buying into what they are trying to feed us all. This is "a good first step" according to many of them on the left. (like there hasn't been over 20,000 gun laws and they all infringe the hell out of the 2nd amendment)

    https://www.bostonherald.com/2018/12...-a-good-start/

    A lot of gun owners are fed up with all of the infringements like this one. Whether you think a bump stock is a useful tool or not, it is firearm related and they just keep stomping on our rights from one side to the other.

    Just watch to see what happens when this new yawker signs this. And afterwards too.
    I mean, come on. Y'all would be hollering about it if Obama had done this and you know it.
    "You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end – which you can never afford to lose – with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be." — VADM James Stockdale, USN (1923-2005)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunny225 View Post
    You are buying into what they are trying to feed us all. This is "a good first step" according to many of them on the left. (like there hasn't been over 20,000 gun laws and they all infringe the hell out of the 2nd amendment)

    https://www.bostonherald.com/2018/12...-a-good-start/

    A lot of gun owners are fed up with all of the infringements like this one. Whether you think a bump stock is a useful tool or not, it is firearm related and they just keep stomping on our rights from one side to the other.

    Just watch to see what happens when this new yawker signs this. And afterwards too.
    I mean, come on. Y'all would be hollering about it if Obama had done this and you know it.
    If every bump stock vanished, spontaneously, from the Earth tomorrow, every gun it was attached to would still be there.

    My ability to buy another gun would be completely unaffected.

    Sounds like I haven't "bought into" anything, but rather see a fresh trap for the Dems to waste their time on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dozdoats View Post
    If the silo covers slide back again like they did on 9-11, the rest of the world will STFU and sit down until thing settle down in the FUSA.
    As horrible as this sounds, I think we may be approaching a period where "making an example" out of one of these "near peer" or "aspiring to be near peer" opponents may be seen as necessary, and I don't mean a JDAM version of the Linebacker opetations.....

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Housecarl View Post
    As horrible as this sounds, I think we may be approaching a period where "making an example" out of one of these "near peer" or "aspiring to be near peer" opponents may be seen as necessary, and I don't mean a JDAM version of the Linebacker opetations.....
    First off, I wish Mr. Trump well in his endeavors....for I know that if he fails..we will all pay.
    That being said, I present to you this little piece of info from Tucker.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...carlson-says/?


    Tucker Carlson says Trump is ‘not capable’ and hasn’t kept his promises

    I hope this piece is not true....if Tucker really said this....well.......WE ARE GOING TO BE IN A WORLD OF HURT.
    Sow the Wind....Reap the Whirlwind

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by doctor_fungcool View Post
    First off, I wish Mr. Trump well in his endeavors....for I know that if he fails..we will all pay.
    That being said, I present to you this little piece of info from Tucker.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...carlson-says/?


    Tucker Carlson says Trump is ‘not capable’ and hasn’t kept his promises

    I hope this piece is not true....if Tucker really said this....well.......WE ARE GOING TO BE IN A WORLD OF HURT.
    Why? Does Carlson's opinion carry that much power behind it? He then has to have the authority/autonomy to use it at his discretion.
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    Thinking Tucker didn't like the treatment his family got so he's toeing the LibLine now.
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    THEY want you DEAD.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Countrybumpkin View Post
    Trump has to do something, or his base will start to leave him. GM leaving, the budget...he'd better put up or shut up.
    I think a lot of his base has already left him. Too much talk, and not enough action. Yeah, he had better put up or shut up. I'm tired of all the 42D chess games, myself.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBreeze View Post
    I think a lot of his base has already left him. Too much talk, and not enough action. Yeah, he had better put up or shut up. I'm tired of all the 42D chess games, myself.
    I'm still with him, but that can change quickly. I'm especially tired of Mueller busting tax payers for millions in a 2 year witch hunt with nothing to show for it. It aint there and Trump needs to start busting some asses over all this mess.

    If he bans bump stocks, yea that will be a support line from me that he looses.

    If he doesn't shut down government to fund the wall, that will be another support line from me that he looses. That was the main one I voted for him on. He has going on 2 years and it ain't done yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhughe13 View Post
    I'm still with him, but that can change quickly. I'm especially tired of Mueller busting tax payers for millions in a 2 year witch hunt with nothing to show for it. It aint there and Trump needs to start busting some asses over all this mess.

    If he bans bump stocks, yea that will be a support line from me that he looses.

    If he doesn't shut down government to fund the wall, that will be another support line from me that he looses. That was the main one I voted for him on. He has going on 2 years and it ain't done yet.
    There's several things I am disappointed with. You mentioned 3 of them. I also was dumb enough to believe him when he said, "Lock her up". He also had a chance to defund PP, but he didn't. If he decides to run NH as his VP on the next run, I'm for sure done. Not only am I tired of all this 42D chess game people tout, I'm tired of all the excuses. We'll see what happens by election time. That will determine how or if I vote.

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    The time to get the funding for the wall was in the first 2 years. It's too late now.
    It's not gonna happen!
    The time to shutdown the government was the time he didn't do it and instead signed that huge spending bill. Now is too late.

    Tucker Carlson did an interview where he attacked Trump for not doingthe main things he promised: Build the wall, De-fund Planned Parenthood, Get rid of ObamaCare.
    These things are why people voted for him and according to Tucker, Trump hasn't accomplished them because he doens't understand how the government works and hasn't surrounded himself with people that do and can make it happen. Also he says Trump's own departments and agencies are working against him and he hasn't been able to bring them under control.
    Here's the story about Tucker who initially and even now, by and large supports Trump but recently has taken a serious look at Trumps abilities and accomplishments.

    My own feelings on it are that while angry tweets may make us feel good they sure as hell haven't been accomplishing much.
    Trump should spend less time airing his dirty laundry in public and more time firing those in his various agencies who go against him and more time getting his promises accomplished.
    A completed wall will probably tell the tale on whether or not he gets elected in 2020. The braggadocio accomplishes nothing except to make a few people happy, but it grows old quickly if not matched by actual accomplishments.


    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...8Vd?li=BBnb7Kx

    Tucker Carlson says Trump is ‘not capable’ and hasn’t kept his promises

    Deanna Paul
    20 hrs ago© Richard Drew/AP Tucker Carlson, host of Fox News show "Tucker Carlson Tonight," in 2017. (Richard Drew/AP)


    Fox News Channel host Tucker Carlson set straight any misinformation concerning his views on President Trump: “I don’t think he’s capable,” he said during an interview on Tuesday.

    Urs Gehriger, an editor at “Die Weltwoche,” Switzerland’s leading German-language opinion weekly, noted that Carlson’s new book, “Ship of Fools,” is silent on Trump but comments on his critics. And so, Gehriger jump-started the conversation by asking what Carlson thought of Trump’s first two years in office.
    Carlson said he cannot stand Trump’s self-aggrandizement and boasting. Then, when asked whether Trump has kept his promises, the usually quick-witted and long-winded Carlson had just one word: “No.”


    Although it has a variety of voices, Fox News Channel has become the outlet often aligned with the current administration, at least in prime time.


    Hosts such as Sean Hannity and Jeanine Pirro have taken near-unequivocal positions in support of Trump and against “the liberal left.” Hannity has even joined Trump on the campaign stage.


    Though often a measured Trump supporter, Tuesday’s interview was not Carlson’s first verbal-lashing of the president; he called Trump’s attacks on then-attorney general Jeff Sessions, following his recusal from the Russia investigation, a “useless, self-destructive act.”


    This week, he continued to disparage the president when Gehriger probed for more.
    His chief promises were that he would build the wall, defund Planned Parenthood and repeal Obamacare, and he hasn’t done any of those things,”

    Carlson said, adding that those goals were probably lost causes. Trump, he said, doesn’t understand the system, and his own agencies don’t support him.
    “He knows very little about the legislative process, hasn’t learned anything, hasn’t surrounded himself with people that can get it done, hasn’t done all the things you need to do, so it’s mostly his fault that he hasn’t achieved those things,” he added.
    He has come to believe that Trump’s role is not as a conventional president who promises to achieve certain things and then does. Instead, it’s to “begin the conversation about what actually matters.”
    For the Fox News host, that issue is immigration.
    The Washington Post’s Philip Bump previously reported that since taking over the prime-time slot left vacant by Greta Van Susteren when she departed the network shortly before the 2016 election, Carlson has been “a fervent advocate for Trump’s hard-right position on immigration.”
    The interview, which ran 45 minutes past its allotted time, covered wide-ranging discussion points, some as striking as Carlson’s outspoken comments about the president.
    For starters, he called Rep.-elect Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) and her socialist group “the future.” He also criticized the Republican Party, suggesting that it “will die” if it doesn’t begin to fairly represent middle-class American voters.
    “The elite in our country is physically separated in a way that’s very unhealthy for a democracy,” he said. Rural America is “really falling apart,” he said, adding that “if you’re running the country, you should have a sense of that."
    Gehriger said Carlson sounded like a “renegade.”
    “He was so tough” on Trump, he told The Post. “He was nobody’s cheerleader. For a person who is so successful on Fox News, I didn’t expect him to be so outspoken."
    "When you're dead, you don't even know you're dead.
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    I'm sure the political pundits, and Tucker Carlson is one of them, feel free to criticize Trump now that there is little chance of impeaching him. His facts are correct, but he doesn't get it that Trump is STILL NOT HILLARY!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacknarwhal View Post
    If every bump stock vanished, spontaneously, from the Earth tomorrow, every gun it was attached to would still be there.

    My ability to buy another gun would be completely unaffected.

    Sounds like I haven't "bought into" anything, but rather see a fresh trap for the Dems to waste their time on.
    You are 100% correct on that. I personally don't own one and could care less. If I had one, that would be great too, it looks like fun. Everybody that wants one, should be able to own one, that is what life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is.

    But millions of honest gun owners have a product bought with their hard earned money, which they have to destroy or risk prison if found with, without compensation. It is unconstitutional and I am against it 100%.

    It is not a stunt, this is America. This is what freedom is supposed to be about and it would not matter who is president.

    This is also why I abandoned the NRA 30 years ago and they'll never get another dollar of mine. I feel sorry for those new 1 million members they just got that got duped. But I got duped into the NRA myself when I was young. We all have to learn at some point.


    I'll tell you what sucks worse, being a Life NRA member and you can't back out.


    JMHO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by willowlady View Post
    I'm sure the political pundits, and Tucker Carlson is one of them, feel free to criticize Trump now that there is little chance of impeaching him. His facts are correct, but he doesn't get it that Trump is STILL NOT HILLARY!
    You are correct that Trump is STILL NOT HILLARY!

    But he made promises. People voted for him based on those promises (and the fact that he is STILL NOT HILLARY!). When this sort of thing happens, voters feel betrayed. Why wouldn't they? Why shouldn't they?
    He came out shortly after he was elected at one of his "rallies" and said that he only said the Lock Her Up thing in order to get votes. So, that one was a flat out lie. Was it not?
    He also said that Mexico would pay for the wall. But now he wants US taxpayers to pay for it. Which is not a problem for most of us, but why the lie?
    "You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end – which you can never afford to lose – with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be." — VADM James Stockdale, USN (1923-2005)

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhughe13 View Post
    You are 100% correct on that. I personally don't own one and could care less. If I had one, that would be great too, it looks like fun. Everybody that wants one, should be able to own one, that is what life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is.

    But millions of honest gun owners have a product bought with their hard earned money, which they have to destroy or risk prison if found with, without compensation. It is unconstitutional and I am against it 100%.

    It is not a stunt, this is America. This is what freedom is supposed to be about and it would not matter who is president.

    This is also why I abandoned the NRA 30 years ago and they'll never get another dollar of mine. I feel sorry for those new 1 million members they just got that got duped. But I got duped into the NRA myself when I was young. We all have to learn at some point.

    JMHO.

    Thank you for putting it more eloquently than I could.
    "You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end – which you can never afford to lose – with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be." — VADM James Stockdale, USN (1923-2005)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunny225 View Post
    You are correct that Trump is STILL NOT HILLARY!

    But he made promises. People voted for him based on those promises (and the fact that he is STILL NOT HILLARY!). When this sort of thing happens, voters feel betrayed. Why wouldn't they? Why shouldn't they?
    He came out shortly after he was elected at one of his "rallies" and said that he only said the Lock Her Up thing in order to get votes. So, that one was a flat out lie. Was it not?
    He also said that Mexico would pay for the wall. But now he wants US taxpayers to pay for it. Which is not a problem for most of us, but why the lie?
    You're right. Everyone keeps saying that "he still isn't Hillary" . That's true, but he's not what we bargained for, either.

  31. #31

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dozdoats View Post
    SHUT IT DOWN.

    Let it run on empty till this crap stops.
    Yes. Shut it down. My household would be affected by the government shutdown in some pretty harsh ways, but sometimes the harsh thing has to happen. Shut it down now, and leave it shut down for a while
    Don't start nuthin', then won't be nuthin'

  33. #33
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    You are correct that Trump is STILL NOT HILLARY!

    I recall an American military officer talking to an NVA (North Vietnamese Army) officer well after the war was over, seeking some historical perspective on the war. "You know you never defeated us on the battlefield," the US officer told his NVA counterpart.

    "That is true" the NVA officer said. "But it is also irrelevant."

    Harry Summers was the US officer, you can look him up for the rest if you want.
    The wonder of our time isn’t how angry we are at politics and politicians; it’s how little we’ve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  34. #34
    threatening government shutdown is like threaten HIV . . . people haven;t stopped having sex
    Consider the ravens, for they neither sow nor reap, which have neither storehouse nor barn; and God feeds them. Of how much more value are you than a pesky raven?
    It is difficult to stand idly by and watch the vacuum of ignorance being filled with lies

  35. #35
    Shut it down. But it's not like they really shut it down. Pay the military and border patrol. I don't care if they pay to keep the parks open or the department of education or whatever. Besides it doesn't ever last long enough. They repay everybody for not working and such. Either shut it down, really or skip it.

    A

  36. #36
    I say shutdown. I am wondering what the board thinks ...collectively.... For me, I'm using my intuition........which may be wrong or right.
    Last edited by doctor_fungcool; 12-16-2018 at 11:02 AM.
    Sow the Wind....Reap the Whirlwind

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    What's the drop-dead date? I'll but more beer and popcorn, and send a Thank You note to the Prez...
    (They don't shut down most departments....most of the .gov is already funded for next year fer gosh sakes)

    Still, a great Christmas present if you ask me.

  38. #38





  39. #39
    Hey wait a second, I thought he was going to get Mexico to pay for the wall.

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Pensacola, Florida.
    Posts
    74
    We are actually seeing a consensus ...overlooked by ALL....the part of government that will shutdown is not important to National Security.
    Shut it down permanently.
    The Federal Employees Union should be deemed illegal.
    Absolutely not one fricking dollar of missed wages should be compensated.
    NOT ONE FRICKING DOLLAR!

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