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GOV/MIL After California shooting, Democrats vow to tackle gun violence
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  1. #1
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    After California shooting, Democrats vow to tackle gun violence

    After California shooting, Democrats vow to tackle gun violence
    Kaitlyn Schallhorn
    4-5 minutes

    As news of the mass shooting at a California bar unfolded, several Democrats promised to use their new majority in the House to address gun violence.

    A man clad in black clutching a semi-automatic pistol opened fire inside Borderline Bar & Grill in Thousand Oaks, California, late Wednesday night, killing at least 12 people, including a veteran sheriff's sergeant nearing retirement. The gunman was also found dead inside the bar, although it's unclear how he died.

    Hundreds of people — including students from California Lutheran University and private Christian school Pepperdine University — were inside the bar, hosting a country music event, when the shooting occurred.

    President Trump said he had been briefed on the shooting and praised the "great bravery shown by police."

    Ventura County Sheriff's Office Sgt. Ron Helus, a 29-year police veteran, was fatally shot when he rushed into the venue in response to the shooting. He left behind a wife and son.

    "God bless all of the victims and families of the victims. Thank you to Law Enforcement," Trump said.

    House Democrats promised to address gun violence in the U.S., especially now that they've gained a majority in the chamber after the midterm elections.

    "Devastated to hear about the mass shooting in Thousand Oaks last night. My condolences to all the victims. I am more committed than ever to addressing the scourge of gun violence," California Rep. John Garamendi said.

    "This is not normal," said Rep. Mark DeSaulnier, D-Calif. "Repeated failure to act in the wake of these shootings has allowed more to take place. Congress must come together and take action to protect our communities and save lives."

    California Sen. Kamala Harris, widely seen as a potential 2020 presidential contender, said she's praying for those injured in the shooting and for those who have lost loved ones. She called Helus "a true hero."

    "Leaders in Congress must act — not someday, but now," Harris said.

    "It's heartbreaking to wake up to another mass shooting — this one at a nightclub in California," said New Jersey Rep. Donald Payne Jr. "This is horrific! Dems have the House in January, and we are ready to take action to [end gun violence]."

    Florida Rep. Ted Deutch, a Democrat, said his party "will take up comprehensive, nation-wide reforms, but we can’t make our communities safer if we don’t do this together."

    "We need both parties to recognize that this shouldn’t be normal," Deutch said.

    "Heartbreaking to hear about what happened in Thousand Oaks last night. Sickened that this keeps [happening]. Our love, support, thoughts and prayers aren’t enough," said Rep. Pramila Jayapal, D-Wash. "We need to act now [and] break the vicious cycle of gun violence & mass shootings that plague our country."

    Rep. Don Beyer, D-Va., said called on Congress to "act" as "our hearts go to the victims, their families and first responders."

    "This cannot keep happening. Congress has a responsibility to act. We have a responsibility to keep Americans safe. We are failing them," Beyer said.

    "My heart breaks for the victims and families of the senseless violence in Ventura County, Calif., including Sheriff’s Sergeant Ron Helus, said GOP Sen. Johnny Isakson of Georgia. "We pray for them as we thank and pray for the heroes of law enforcement and first responders who rush to protect innocent lives."

    Still, other lawmakers took to social media to express their condolences and call on Congress to address gun violence:

    Fox News' Katherine Lam and Stephen Sorace contributed to this report.


    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/aft...ce-in-congress

  2. #2
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    So just how are they going to do this? Oh I know by taking the guns from law abiding citizens. Oh wait, the criminals still have them and won't give them up just like in places like Australia and Chicago. This currant shooting sounds like another set up.

  3. #3
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    I don't know why, but when I woke up and saw this breaking news something immediately hit me. I kept feeling this is a setup.
    I feel some dark, evil powers have gotten a hold of this guy with PTSD, maybe drugged him up, and sent him in.
    Sorry if I sound crazy, but something stinks here and the Libs can't wait to start battling the President again.
    ~ I stand with Ted to defeat Hillary Clinton. My family and I will be voting for Trump/Pence this November.
    "It took Jimmy Carter to give us Ronald Reagan." - Our country's last best hope in 2016, was Presidential Candidate Ted Cruz

  4. #4
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    A man clad in black clutching a semi-automatic pistol

    Probably clutching his pearls with the other hand.
    The wonder of our time isn’t how angry we are at politics and politicians; it’s how little we’ve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  5. #5
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    I knew this was coming again. It never stops.

  6. #6
    and so it begins...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveReloaded View Post
    and so it begins...
    Yup.....

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sssarawolf View Post
    So just how are they going to do this? Oh I know by taking the guns from law abiding citizens. Oh wait, the criminals still have them and won't give them up just like in places like Australia and Chicago. This currant shooting sounds like another set up.

    This seems to be their way of thinking and total control over the people is the end game. What we have is some social problems that will take time to correct and with this marxist movement thats pushing to over take the country, it's this problem that needs to tackled first with a degree of expediency and when that is partly taken care of quickly go after the other issues.

  9. #9
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    preachng to the choir

    gun violence

    guns aren't violent----people are

  10. #10
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    And prices were JUST coming down at the gun shows....

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murt View Post
    preachng to the choir

    gun violence

    guns aren't violent----people are
    You got that right. It's the press and the dems that has to be changed first. They lie and twist the truth on everything.

    The press and the dems are the enemy.
    Alabama - Independent Now and Forever - Noli Me Tangere

    The Confederacy - Fighting Terrorism Since 1861

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkgirl_70 View Post
    I don't know why, but when I woke up and saw this breaking news something immediately hit me. I kept feeling this is a setup.
    I feel some dark, evil powers have gotten a hold of this guy with PTSD, maybe drugged him up, and sent him in.
    Sorry if I sound crazy, but something stinks here and the Libs can't wait to start battling the President again.
    This doesn't sound crazy to me. During the Obunghole term he had authorized a mind program at the VA for PTSD vets. They had posters on the wall to sign up and you would receive travel and some small amount of cash. I don't know how many minds they tinkered with or how but the program was very real. Most of the shooters have had some sort of mental intervention and psychotic drugs involved. Nobody wants to talk about drug control but they want the guns. To soon to know much about the shooter but I will guarantee you it will be used to confiscate guns.
    "They wanted to be left alone to face challenges head-on, and to prosper from their own hard work and ingenuity...harsh country tends to produce strong people."-John Erickson

  13. #13
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    What always gets me is that Chicago gets this many dead and wounded regularly on a weekly basis but the Dems never bring the situation there or other Dems run metro areas as the reason d'etre for these 2A eliminating political moves.....

  14. #14
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    Very sorry to hear more murder. The Republican Senate will be tested on this. If they cave/compromise on this issue their majority means nothing.

  15. #15
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    reason d'etre

    If yer gonna use this, it's actually:

    raison d'ętre



    /foreign language spelling police

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhughe13 View Post
    ....It's the press and the dems that has to be changed first. They lie and twist the truth on everything.

    The press and the dems are the enemy.
    ^^^THIS^^^

    Ramping up the distortions and propaganda.

    We all know what is coming.
    "Talking is easy and everyone is wise after the event."

    Ernest Joyce

  17. #17
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    I am to the point where I think someone somewhere is instigating these shootings. Its just a bit too convenient that the day after the Dems take the house, a mass shooting takes place.

    I have a feeling that gun control is ALL the dem house will be talking about for the next few years, and we will see many more mass shootings.
    Americans used to roar like lions for liberty; now we bleat like sheep for security.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Housecarl View Post
    What always gets me is that Chicago gets this many dead and wounded regularly on a weekly basis but the Dems never bring the situation there or other Dems run metro areas as the reason d'etre for these 2A eliminating political moves.....
    training the urban war 'brown shirts'?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Olson View Post
    reason d'etre

    If yer gonna use this, it's actually:

    raison d'ętre

    /foreign language spelling police
    Damn "smart phone" auto-correct......

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by eXe View Post
    I am to the point where I think someone somewhere is instigating these shootings. Its just a bit too convenient that the day after the Dems take the house, a mass shooting takes place.

    I have a feeling that gun control is ALL the dem house will be talking about for the next few years, and we will see many more mass shootings.
    my first thought as well . . . the asshats in Kalifonica are already subjected to some of the most restrictive gun laws at the state level one can imagine
    “So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.” REV 3:16

    Raging Deplorable - we do NOT forget; we do NOT forgive; we are LEGION

  21. #21
    London removed guns from civilian hands.

    Knife attacks ensued.

    London outlawed knives.

    People getting mowed down by cars and trucks ensued.

    Now London wants to ban vehicular traffic.

    All in the name of stopping violence.

    And none of it worked?

    Why.......because people who hurt, maim, or kill others for conflict resolution and/or sport have a moral and ethical deficiency. People who are not right in the head and/or heart commit violence like this.

    Removing 'weapons' won't fix head and heart problems. New weapons will be found or forged to carry out the violence.

    Those that claim removing 'weapons' will fix problems of a moral and ethical basis are one of two things:

    1) Ignorant, and reading the above can fix that.

    2) Evil tyrants that wish to harm or eliminate those they desire to disarm.

    So, take your pick marxists, which one are you, #1 or #2.
    pragmatic. eclectic. realistic. vivere paratus: fortune favors the prepared

    the BIBLE: Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth! read it yourself. live it. love it.

    it is what it is.........but it will become what you make of it

  22. #22
    This is great! I think they should make it illegal to kill people!

  23. #23
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    What I want to know is why in the hell are we not evaluating every Combat Veteran for PTSD?!? AND......getting them the care they need?!?!

    Why isn't the VA following up on Combat Veterans after they are discharged?

    Everything we do for veterans is always LOOOOOONG AFTER the fact, WTH? Look how long it took for our government to deal with Agent Orange. We've been fighting in Afghanistan FOR SEVENTEEN FLIPPING YEARS!! Haven't we learned anything dealing with this kind of psychological damage?

    FWIW: Back about five to eight years back there was a HUGE STINK at the Army's Fort Carson in Colorado, because they (THE ARMY) were purposely UNDER REPORTING and FALSELY REPORTING soldiers PTSD diagnosis....why? Because the ARMY didn't want to admit that there was a major problem with their troops. I personally knew a number of Fort Carson combat veterans that had been mis/under reported. Dudes dealing with serious PTSD issues that were basically expedited out of the military and then not taken care of afterwards. Their needs were totally ignored....on purpose, by the command there!

    Sounds like this shooter had some serious issues and I'd hate to be the person that cleared him psychologically back in April.

    Until we deal with the hidden wounds of Combat Veterans this crap will continue to rear it's ugly head. THIS IS NOT A GUN ISSUE....IT'S A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE!!
    We have done so much, with so little, for so long....We can now do anything, with nothing, forever.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by eXe View Post
    I am to the point where I think someone somewhere is instigating these shootings. Its just a bit too convenient that the day after the Dems take the house, a mass shooting takes place.

    I have a feeling that gun control is ALL the dem house will be talking about for the next few years, and we will see many more mass shootings.
    Dear crazy people,

    The source of all your issues lies withing the boundaries of DC. If you must lose your marbles and go shooting willy-nilly the DC is the place you need to be.

    Sincerely,

    The not so crazy people
    Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who kept their swords.

    --Benjamin Franklin

  25. #25
    Why don't we take care of our vets?

    Because once the boots come off they are no longer useful to empire america.

    And empire america doesn't give a rat's ass about real America or real Americans.
    pragmatic. eclectic. realistic. vivere paratus: fortune favors the prepared

    the BIBLE: Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth! read it yourself. live it. love it.

    it is what it is.........but it will become what you make of it

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith357 View Post
    This is great! I think they should make it illegal to kill people!
    I disagree, some people need killing.
    Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who kept their swords.

    --Benjamin Franklin

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowMan View Post
    What I want to know is why in the hell are we not evaluating every Combat Veteran for PTSD?!? AND......getting them the care they need?!?!

    Why isn't the VA following up on Combat Veterans after they are discharged?

    Everything we do for veterans is always LOOOOOONG AFTER the fact, WTH? Look how long it took for our government to deal with Agent Orange. We've been fighting in Afghanistan FOR SEVENTEEN FLIPPING YEARS!! Haven't we learned anything dealing with this kind of psychological damage?

    FWIW: Back about five to eight years back there was a HUGE STINK at the Army's Fort Carson in Colorado, because they (THE ARMY) were purposely UNDER REPORTING and FALSELY REPORTING soldiers PTSD diagnosis....why? Because the ARMY didn't want to admit that there was a major problem with their troops. I personally knew a number of Fort Carson combat veterans that had been mis/under reported. Dudes dealing with serious PTSD issues that were basically expedited out of the military and then not taken care of afterwards. Their needs were totally ignored....on purpose, by the command there!

    Sounds like this shooter had some serious issues and I'd hate to be the person that cleared him psychologically back in April.

    Until we deal with the hidden wounds of Combat Veterans this crap will continue to rear it's ugly head. THIS IS NOT A GUN ISSUE....IT'S A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE!!
    Yep, ban vets. They're all nuts and "everybody" knows it. That's the ticket, boy.

    Oh, Happy Veteran's Day this coming Sunday.

    VN class of '71
    The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist

    If you have not been to the range in a month, you are under performing.-BB

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by rlm1966 View Post
    I disagree, some people need killing.
    True, I should have said murder, technically.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by eXe View Post
    I am to the point where I think someone somewhere is instigating these shootings. Its just a bit too convenient that the day after the Dems take the house, a mass shooting takes place.

    I have a feeling that gun control is ALL the dem house will be talking about for the next few years, and we will see many more mass shootings.
    Duh, no shit, Sherlock. I think most shootings are at least allowed to happen, like whoosits in Broward County, don’t arrest the future shooter, it makes our stats look bad.
    "...Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the cats of war..."
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    If it works, it doesn't have enough features. - Windows 10 design philosophy.
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  30. #30
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    Please allow me to introduce you to Jeff Cooper, if you have not already made his acquaintance in one way or another. Cooper was a Marine at one time also. He also founded the first significant civilian defensive firearms school in the US.

    These quotes appear in the order in which they are arranged at the source.
    =====================

    https://www.azquotes.com/author/3249-Jeff_Cooper

    Jeff Cooper Quotes

    The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.


    If violent crime is to be curbed, it is only the intended victim who can do it. The felon does not fear the police, and he fears neither judge nor jury. Therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim.


    An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.


    Fight back! Whenever you are offered violence, fight back! The aggressor does not fear the law, so he must be taught to fear you. Whatever the risk, and at whatever the cost, fight back!


    Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.


    Political correctness is neither political nor is it correct. It amounts to social censorship, and the sooner we spit it out, the better.


    One bleeding-heart type asked me in a recent interview if I did not agree that 'violence begets violence.' I told him that it is my earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure - and in some cases I have - that any man who offers violence to his fellow citizen begets a whole lot more in return than he can enjoy.


    Blessed are those who, in the face of death, think only about the front sight.


    The police cannot protect the citizen at this stage of our development, and they cannot even protect themselves in many cases. It is up to the private citizen to protect himself and his family, and this is not only acceptable, but mandatory.


    It appears that the murder rate inside prisons is ten times higher than that outside prisons. It must be due to all those Kalashnikov rifles that are issued to prisoners upon their incarceration.


    According to Herodotus, the ancient Persians felt that what was necessary in the background of a young man entering adulthood was his ability to ride, shoot straight, and speak the truth. Perhaps we should now grant our college degrees to young men who measure up to that standard.


    If you don't understand weapons you don't understand fighting. If you don't understand fighting you don't understand war. If you don't understand war you don't understand history. And if you don't understand history you might as well live with your head in a sack.


    That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants.


    One correspondent, who is into psychology, notes that in his experience people who are hoplophobes are nearly always nutty in other ways, too. Hoplophobia [fear of guns], of course, is not simply an attitude but rather an aberration in which the sufferer clings to an idea which he himself knows to be unsound, such as the idea that inanimate instruments have a will of their own or that lawbreakers abide by the law.


    The consensus is that no more than five to ten people in a hundred who die by gunfire in Los Angeles are any loss to society. These people fight small wars amongst themselves. It would seem a valid social service to keep them well-supplied with ammunition.


    Observe your cat. It is difficult to surprise him. Why? Naturally his superior hearing is part of the answer, but not all of it. He moves well, using his senses fully. He is not preoccupied with irrelevancies. He's not thinking about his job or his image or his income tax. He is putting first things first, principally his physical security. Do likewise.


    The essential thing is to bear always in mind that trouble can appear at any time.
    Be aware.Be ready.Be alert.


    Weapons compound man's power to achieve; they amplify the capabilities of both the good man and the bad, and to exactly the same degree, having no will of their own. Thus we must regard them as servants, not masters - and good servants to good men. Without them, man is diminished, and his opportunities to fulfill his destiny are lessened. An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.


    The only acceptable response to the threat of lethal violence is immediate and savage counterattack. If you resist, you just may get killed. If you don't resist you almost certainly will get killed. It is a tough choice, but there is only one right answer.


    One cannot legislate the maniacs off the street... these maniacs can only be shut down by an armed citizenry. Indeed bad things can happen in nations where the citizenry is armed, but not as bad as those which seem to be threatening our disarmed citizenry in this country at this time.


    One of the notable aspects of the democratic process is that one need not know anything about a subject in order to pass laws about it.


    If you find yourself under lethal attack don't be kind. Be harsh. Be tough. Be ruthless.


    Remember the first rule of gunfighting ... have a gun.


    Jeff Cooper
    Born: May 10, 1920
    Died: September 25, 2006
    Occupation: Author
    The wonder of our time isn’t how angry we are at politics and politicians; it’s how little we’ve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by eXe View Post
    I am to the point where I think someone somewhere is instigating these shootings. Its just a bit too convenient that the day after the Dems take the house, a mass shooting takes place.

    I have a feeling that gun control is ALL the dem house will be talking about for the next few years, and we will see many more mass shootings.
    I can usually smell it but I no longer tell it.

    It's damned near as predictable as sunrise.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowMan View Post
    What I want to know is why in the hell are we not evaluating every Combat Veteran for PTSD?!? AND......getting them the care they need?!?!

    Why isn't the VA following up on Combat Veterans after they are discharged?

    Everything we do for veterans is always LOOOOOONG AFTER the fact, WTH? Look how long it took for our government to deal with Agent Orange. We've been fighting in Afghanistan FOR SEVENTEEN FLIPPING YEARS!! Haven't we learned anything dealing with this kind of psychological damage?

    FWIW: Back about five to eight years back there was a HUGE STINK at the Army's Fort Carson in Colorado, because they (THE ARMY) were purposely UNDER REPORTING and FALSELY REPORTING soldiers PTSD diagnosis....why? Because the ARMY didn't want to admit that there was a major problem with their troops. I personally knew a number of Fort Carson combat veterans that had been mis/under reported. Dudes dealing with serious PTSD issues that were basically expedited out of the military and then not taken care of afterwards. Their needs were totally ignored....on purpose, by the command there!

    Sounds like this shooter had some serious issues and I'd hate to be the person that cleared him psychologically back in April.

    Until we deal with the hidden wounds of Combat Veterans this crap will continue to rear it's ugly head. THIS IS NOT A GUN ISSUE....IT'S A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE!!
    As I noted on the main thread on the shooting, regarding a caller to KSFO about his son's PTSD treatment experience post deployments, he was just given meds and cut loose after which while on the meds had several psychotic breaks. It turned out he had multiple concussions and brain traumas from combat that wasn't apparently even looked at. Once those bra in trauma injuries were diagnosed he was taken off the psych meds and now he is according to his father is fine. So the situation is worse than "only" the PTSD issue, it is also the lack of real screening for brain injuries as well for these troops and the effects the meds have on those with these brain injuries on top of the bad effects they have on the PTSD victims....

  33. #33
    You are going to get TWO YEARS OF THIS BULLSHIT so might as well sit back and relax.

    The Left is going to whine and scream like little babies - we're going to do this, and we're going to do that.

    No you aren't - you're going to mouth off and shoot blanks in the House and the Senate and Trump are going to sit back and crush every piece of shithead legislation that crosses their desk - all the while pumping right wing judge after judge into the judiciary.

    What IS going to happen is majorly increased violence on the part of the Left as they get more and more unhinged over the next 24 months.

    And how cool is that - the party that is completely enamored with taking guns out of the hands of citizens is going to be responsible for the most virulent violence ever to hit this country in 50 years.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by kochevnik View Post
    You are going to get TWO YEARS OF THIS BULLSHIT so might as well sit back and relax.

    The Left is going to whine and scream like little babies - we're going to do this, and we're going to do that.

    No you aren't - you're going to mouth off and shoot blanks in the House and the Senate and Trump are going to sit back and crush every piece of shithead legislation that crosses their desk - all the while pumping right wing judge after judge into the judiciary.

    What IS going to happen is majorly increased violence on the part of the Left as they get more and more unhinged over the next 24 months.

    And how cool is that - the party that is completely enamored with taking guns out of the hands of citizens is going to be responsible for the most virulent violence ever to hit this country in 50 years.
    You're forgetting about the crap that will also go down at the state and city level which has already started post Pittsburgh....

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by kochevnik View Post
    You are going to get TWO YEARS OF THIS BULLSHIT so might as well sit back and relax.

    The Left is going to whine and scream like little babies - we're going to do this, and we're going to do that.

    No you aren't - you're going to mouth off and shoot blanks in the House and the Senate and Trump are going to sit back and crush every piece of shithead legislation that crosses their desk - all the while pumping right wing judge after judge into the judiciary.

    What IS going to happen is majorly increased violence on the part of the Left as they get more and more unhinged over the next 24 months.

    And how cool is that - the party that is completely enamored with taking guns out of the hands of citizens is going to be responsible for the most virulent violence ever to hit this country in 50 years.
    You're forgetting about ole "Art of the Deal Trump" and his "I'd actually like to take the guns first and then have due process" proclivities. I don't trust him not to deal with the Dems.....

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rlm1966 View Post
    I disagree, some people need killing.
    second that
    “So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.” REV 3:16

    Raging Deplorable - we do NOT forget; we do NOT forgive; we are LEGION

  37. #37
    the left wants violence, they crave violence
    ANTIFA, BLM, mexican caravans
    they simply do not want you to be able to defend yourself
    because if you can, they can't exercise violence
    Consider the ravens, for they neither sow nor reap, which have neither storehouse nor barn; and God feeds them. Of how much more value are you than a pesky raven?
    It is difficult to stand idly by and watch the vacuum of ignorance being filled with lies

  38. #38
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    21,703
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubble Head View Post
    This doesn't sound crazy to me. During the Obunghole term he had authorized a mind program at the VA for PTSD vets. They had posters on the wall to sign up and you would receive travel and some small amount of cash. I don't know how many minds they tinkered with or how but the program was very real. Most of the shooters have had some sort of mental intervention and psychotic drugs involved. Nobody wants to talk about drug control but they want the guns. To soon to know much about the shooter but I will guarantee you it will be used to confiscate guns.
    I wondered about that very thing. I don't recall this level of violence among returning veterans in the past, although it was a favorite theme in movies during and following the Vietnam war.
    "Freedom is not something to be secured in any one moment of time. We must struggle to preserve it every day. And freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction."
    -Ronald Reagan

  39. #39
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Behind Enemy Lines
    Posts
    155,109
    Quote Originally Posted by raven View Post
    the left wants violence, they crave violence
    ANTIFA, BLM, mexican caravans
    they simply do not want you to be able to defend yourself
    because if you can, they can't exercise violence

    No, it’s because they can’t SAFELY exercise violence.

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Central South Carolina
    Posts
    2,698
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Olson View Post
    reason d'etre

    If yer gonna use this, it's actually:

    raison d'ętre



    /foreign language spelling police
    Quelle audace !

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