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HELP Propane wall-mounted heater question
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  1. #41
    I would consider buying a used tank instead of renting.If you rent,you are locked in to buy from that supplier,could wind up costing you more for propane.

  2. #42
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    Just installed a Rinnai vented heater, 8000 btu the house is 600 square feet hooked to a 100 pound tank, have not run this thru a winter yet so consumption is a guess at one tank fill a month? This is supplemental heat not primary which is solar hot air during the day and until now electric back up, the Rinnai takes in outside air for combustion and heats and circulates room air.I am planning to track consumption and compare last seasons heating costs to this seasons, this is at sea level in southern New England.

  3. #43
    I would not recommend a vent free gas heater. They are not good for you at all. And they will make you feel sick. Find one that vents through the wall to the outside.
    But not likely to die free

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by BornFree View Post
    I would not recommend a vent free gas heater. They are not good for you at all. And they will make you feel sick. Find one that vents through the wall to the outside.
    Been using one for seven years.

    The only thing it makes me feel is warm.
    Proud Infidel...............and Cracker

    Member: Nowski Brigade

    Deplorable


  5. #45
    While I do not have one now for years we did have various unvented gas heaters. Some were natural gas in town and several were propane when in the country. We had no problems with them although the last one was the best because it had a thermostat and you did not wake up in the middle of the night either to hot or too cold. I had a CO detector with the last one but never had a problem as long as the window was cracked while running any of them.

  6. #46
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    I am always surprised by just how many people are very afraid of gas appliances even though a very large percentage of homes (and businesses) across the nation have one or more of them.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by hiwall View Post
    I am always surprised by just how many people are very afraid of gas appliances even though a very large percentage of homes (and businesses) across the nation have one or more of them.
    Who said afraid, the issue is vented versus non-vented for the combustion gases and the water vapor from propane.

    Yes, a large percentage are out there, and the majority are vented to the outside like furnaces, clothes dryers, water heaters, shop heaters, etc.

    Why take a chance venting dangerous by-products from a heater into your living space if you don't have to?
    ...Rubbin' is Racin'......

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Millwright View Post
    Been using one for seven years.

    The only thing it makes me feel is warm.
    "All those who cannot swim will please mount the benches, scale the walls, climb the stove pipe or flee to the hills, or other places of refuge, for I, the great He-elephant of Buncombe County, am going to piss on this here stove."

    (I couldn't stand it any longer and MW opened the door.)

  9. #49
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    I would not recommend an unvented gas heater, and yes we heat with propane and cook with it. I used to have one of those in my rental property, and in the winter if I went in while it was heating, I could tell if they were using it. They didn't notice it, but coming in from outside it was very obvious.

    A vented heater will cost a bit more, but IMO it is worth the extra expense.
    "Freedom is not something to be secured in any one moment of time. We must struggle to preserve it every day. And freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction."
    -Ronald Reagan

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Millwright View Post
    Been using one for seven years.

    The only thing it makes me feel is warm.
    I know someone like you. He felt the same way. Until he figured out why he felt sick all winter. Then he changed his tune. Some people are more affected than others, but everyone is affected if you know it or not.
    But not likely to die free

  11. We live a full time mobile lifestyle, travelling in our (insulated) RV, and the temps here go as low as -40 degrees in winter (it’s currently 27 degrees), and we use a Mr. Heater BIG BUDDY (Massachusetts & Canada version) propane heater, which can be wall mounted as zero clearance is required at its rear. It kicks out 18,000 BTU on its highest setting, which comfortably heats a 750 square feet area to room temperature. We love ours and wouldn’t consider using anything else. http://www.mrheater.com/big-buddy-po...a-version.html

    Sláinte!

    Kathy.
    ’Somewhere out there, out where dreams come true....’

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racing22 View Post
    Who said afraid, the issue is vented versus non-vented for the combustion gases and the water vapor from propane.

    Yes, a large percentage are out there, and the majority are vented to the outside like furnaces, clothes dryers, water heaters, shop heaters, etc.

    Why take a chance venting dangerous by-products from a heater into your living space if you don't have to?
    Anyone who is, let's say concerned, about fumes from gas would maybe be better off with a non-vented unit. Those have to be designed to burn perfectly clean while the vented models do not. The "fumes" in a vented model are contained in the burn chamber which is very thin steel. This burn chamber cannot be seen so you have no idea how well the unit is burning and because the metal is thin these can rust through in just a couple years which allows all those "toxic fumes" into your home without you knowing. A non-vented model like a blue flame allows you to see the flame and if it is blue you know it is working perfectly.
    The odds of you dying from a gas heater are VERY small. More likely to die from a hundred other things like lightning strike or bee stings or countless other things.
    CO comes from incomplete burning. CO is found in ALL heaters that burn ANY fuel.

  13. #53
    Just a old plumbers opinion...

    Most new homes now days are so air right, their not healthy. Infact, a argument can be said that the new toilets flushes so violently that they automize some of your poop, so the old saying...if you smell it, you taste it, is more true today.

    So often the newer homes that have proven to be sick homes often get fresh outside air pumped back into them threw the central HVAC systems. And are now more healthier. So much for those super expensive windows and foam insulation energy savings you thought you had.

    Bottom line, ...crack a window and buy a down comforter for the bed, where you sleep if worried. Cause your house is to tight.

    If your house is old and not airtight.. relax and put another log in the fire...

  14. #54
    Ok, listen, I have been selling and installing LP heaters for years.

    They are great for a back up source of heat or in a WELL ventilated area. They throw off of LOT of moisture, so if you run one for very long periods of time look BEHIND furniture and areas with poor airflow for mildew/mold starting. If you have any breathing issues, a lot of allergies , heart issues do NOT use them as a main source of heat.

    Whenever possible put in a VENTED unit. Depending on the area, a Company called Empire makes a fine direct vent unit that requires no electric to run . 10-30K BTU. models available.
    Rinnai makes a great wall furnace as well but they are a bit more and do require electricity.

    Empire also makes a very nice cast iron stove, vented and unvented, cost a bit more but heat very well.

    These little blue flame and infrared heaters are great for certain purposes , a main heating source is not one of them.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Millwright View Post
    Been using one for seven years.

    The only thing it makes me feel is warm.
    Been using them for some 40+ years.

    A couple of other points:

    If the air in your home is/becomes to dry just set some water on the heater. We have a cast iron tea kettle/with water setting on our cast iron heater. We also used decorative, although smaller tea kettles on our gas heaters.

    On radiant gas heaters (ventless) dust will build up in them, and as strange as it sounds, doesn't burn. How to tell. Anything but a solid blue flame (like red or yellow) from the pilot flame means it's dirty. Even if it's just the tip. And if the flames are above the "brick" it's dirty. Turn off and let cool. The best way to clean is with a compressed air tank, and nozzle. Remove the safety barrier, so you can get close, and hose that thing down really good with air. If you don't have a compressed air tank, you can get some in can's at Walmart. And you should ALWAYS clean your heater before use.

    Tanks run about 500-600.00 (250 gallons) depending on where you live I'm sure. Rental cost is 48.00 annually, so in 11-12 years you will have paid for a tank. I would only rent, if I knew I wasn't going to be using propane the whole time I lived there, going to move, or wanted to wait and see how it worked out. Never rent for the long term on anything.

    For the mold problem due to humidity, which is something we also have a problem with, especially in the summer. Moving air prevents mold. Leave doors open. If you want to keep doors closed to heat home. crack a window, install a ceiling fan, or a small fan of some sort on a shelf, etc. If it's a room you want to keep closed so as to not heat it, but go into a couple of times a day for one thing or another, like a pantry room, that might be enough air circulation, if not, note above.

    Pre-book your propane. Most of the companies around here run sales in the summer called "pre-booking" which usually runs about/near a dollar per gallon less, than in the winter. Kind of figure how much you will need. Say you figure 300 gal. over the winter. Check your 250 gal. tank 40% is 100 gallons, so pre-book 200 gallons in June/July. You could pre-book 300 gal. have them bring you a 100 and still have 200 in the bank. Just make sure you have them deliver the rest before the time expires on the contract.

    As for gas fireplaces. Those things are pretty, and easy to use, thermostat controlled etc. Please correct if wrong, because I caught the tale end of report, last winter.

    The area was bad cold so there was a lot of home fires. One reporter was interviewing a gas log retailer, and he said gas logs are only designed for a 2 hour burn period. I was like "What" who would want to pay the expense for only a 2 hour use? We don't have them, but my son does, and I told him about it.

    Always, always have a CO2, smoke detector in your home. Always. Well worth the money, after all it is you life.

  16. #56

    5

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Co. View Post
    We have one of each. A blue flame here at home, a radiant at the farm. Both heat equally well, and will work when nothing else does. The only drawback is your having to rent a tank. We have a 250 gallon here, and fill it once a year (usually) for heat & cooking. At the farm, we just use 100# bottles, tho they're getting harder (heavier) to change out.

    I would think 100-125 gallons of propane would do for heat, here. SE Texas, 40 miles N of Houston. Your clime might be different.

    Another heater, https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...r?cm_vc=IOPDP2 Uses only the small 20# cylinders that store inside. My brother has two, that heat his 2600 SF very well, at less than half the cost of his central electric heat. Two of these would run about the same $$ as a single wall mount.

    Good luck in your decision.
    Question Green Co ? Is that not the same size as what we use on our gas grills? We have a couple Mr Heater Big Buddy heaters, that use the 1lb cylinders. I got the hose & regulators to connect to the big cylinders. But DW read in the manual DO NOT use the big cylinders inside, so she said NO. So, just wondered if your talking about something different or what. Your heater sounds good.

    thanks in advance for your reply !!

    Regards, No Dandy
    Last edited by NoDandy; 11-08-2018 at 10:30 AM.
    "No one ever rescues an old dog. They lay in a cage until they die. PLEASE save one. None of us wants to die cold and alone... --Dennis Olson "

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by BornFree View Post
    I know someone like you. He felt the same way. Until he figured out why he felt sick all winter. Then he changed his tune. Some people are more affected than others, but everyone is affected if you know it or not.
    I am very aware of the dangers of heating with any kind of flame. Most of my life I've lived in houses with wood stoves (which I'll get back to in a moment) but for a few years when I was small we had an oil-fired heater. One night it malfunctioned and almost killed us; my mother woke up for some reason and realized what was wrong and got us all out of the house, dizzy and groggy and with bad headaches. That was a close one.

    As for wood stoves, I was in my thirties when it dawned on me that I always had a headache, usually mild but there, when I was in the house, and it went away as soon as I got out in the fresh air. It was from the little bit of smoke you get in the house when you open and close the wood stove, which has to be done several times a day to add wood. So, I still strongly prefer wood heat, and I intend to keep using wood heat as a back-up, but it isn't going to be my main heat. I will check on vented heaters, though, and see if that's something that I can do.

    And as for disliking gas or propane in the house...my first experience of what propane can do was from reports of fires and explosions in boats out on the water (I went to college in Sitka, Alaska, and my Dad was a commercial fisherman at times). If I had a boat, there is no way I would allow propane anything on board -- the fumes fall into the hold, then a spark from the engine ignites them.

    Then, of course, you hear stories of gas explosions in houses from time to time. And the gas ovens that I tried to light would backpuff at me (a little explosion) -- and still fail to light. Then there was the time that one of my cousins in Alaska lost her house to a propane leak -- the propane being heavier than air, it had fallen into the ductwork under the house, a spark lit it, and her house went up. She was unharmed, but lost everything. So I am definitely leery of it. But I do realize that USUALLY it's safe.

    Kathleen
    Behold, these are the mere edges of His ways, and how small a whisper we hear of Him.
    Job 26:14

    wickr ID freeholder45

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoDandy View Post
    Question Green Co ? Is that not the same size as what we use on our gas grills? We have a couple Mr Heater Big Buddy heaters, that use the 1lb cylinders. I got the hose & regulators to connect to the big cylinders. But DW read in the manual DO NOT use the big cylinders inside, so she said NO. So, just wondered if your talking about something different or what. Your heater sounds good.

    thanks in advance for your reply !!

    Regards, No Dandy
    The 20# cylinders are the same as used on your gas grill. I've also read that notice on the Big Buddy Mr Heater products, I have one for occasional use in the TT, but the cylinder is close... only have the 6' hose.

    My opinion for the warning, the Buddy heaters don't use a pressure regulator at the cylinder, thus you have the full pressure, over 100 psi, coming thru the line to be regulated at the heat source. Should that line leak you could get a lot of gas in an area in a very short amount of time. The heater I referenced above uses the pressure regulator at the cylinder, so the pressure into the fuel line is only ounces of pressure.

    Is one safer than the other? Damned if I know, but I prefer the lower pressure of regulation at the cylinder, instead of full pressure thru the line. But, I have & do use both at different times, with proper cautions for leak prevention, either would be ok, IMO. You'll have to make up your own mind.

    Amazon sells the heater I mentioned. https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Heater-MH1...propane+heater and has a video on it's use. Even tho the product warning says "outdoor use only" the video shows it in use in an enclosed work place. So, I believe the warning is simply a CYA measure.

    Any heating device must have cautions in use. As I said, we lost a house to malfunctioning electric heat, so I prefer a source I can easily check. Plus, I can regulate the amount of LPG I have stored, but here in the woods, limbs & trees constantly knock out electrical lines.

  19. Bottom line:

    Most house fires are *electrical* fires, usually caused by either improper or old wiring, or overloaded outlets. (Too many plugs drawing power by using adapters - with or without surge suppressors.)

    Propane heaters are not dangerous when used correctly, and the same goes for natural gas furnaces and wood stoves. If proper safety measures are employed, and adequate ventilation is of primary importance, second only to daily maintenance of the unit itself, then using propane heaters is no more dangerous than crossing a busy street.

    If one does not look both ways and does not proceed with caution, the chances of injury or death are high. The same holds true for all things in life, including indoor heating sources. For safety, one has to remove the *idiot* factor.

    If you swallow your food without chewing it you will choke, and death is death no matter why it happens.

    Sláinte!

    Kathy.
    ’Somewhere out there, out where dreams come true....’

  20. #60
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    Own the tank. Very important. It allows you to shop companies for the best local propane prices. If you rent you're stuck with that company and the premium they charge on top of the dormant price (Price of fuel to non tank renters). If the propane is only for the wall heater get a smaller tank.

    Our old Amish neighbors used propane wall heaters while they built. The built and lived in the barn first. Then moved into the home when it was built. Propane is their electricity. It powers their heat, stoves lights and I think their fridge and freezer.
    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

  21. #61
    Just a couple of notes:

    Houses blowing up is usually because of Natural Gas, not propane. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but usually what you see on TV is caused by Natural Gas, which runs through a pipe, and a meter on the outside of the home, before going into the furnace or what ever.

    And yes most house fires are electrically caused. And is the reason it is recommended to have your house rewired every 20 years or so. With the heating and cooling of the wires the insulation gets brittle, and breaks/falls off and the open wire, heats up and can cause a fire. I'm sure the electrical industry has done some upgrades to that to help prevent that, but if you haven't replaced the wiring in your home in the last 20 or so, you don't have it.

    And people will do dumb things with electrical space heaters, not to mention dumb things with propane, kerosene, and wood heat. Just be cautious, and pay attention, and you should be Ok. So long as you're not a Griswall putting up Christmas lights, you got this.

  22. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaryC View Post
    Just a couple of notes:

    Houses blowing up is usually because of Natural Gas, not propane. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but usually what you see on TV is caused by Natural Gas, which runs through a pipe, and a meter on the outside of the home, before going into the furnace or what ever.

    And yes most house fires are electrically caused. And is the reason it is recommended to have your house rewired every 20 years or so. With the heating and cooling of the wires the insulation gets brittle, and breaks/falls off and the open wire, heats up and can cause a fire. I'm sure the electrical industry has done some upgrades to that to help prevent that, but if you haven't replaced the wiring in your home in the last 20 or so, you don't have it.

    And people will do dumb things with electrical space heaters, not to mention dumb things with propane, kerosene, and wood heat. Just be cautious, and pay attention, and you should be Ok. So long as you're not a Griswall putting up Christmas lights, you got this.
    This house desperately needs to be rewired. Saving for that is one reason I need to be a little frugal with the heat for right now. The house was built circa 1930, and I'm pretty sure some of the wiring is close to that old (I don't know when they got electricity in this area; the part of the Oregon Coast where I was born didn't get power until the 1940's, but I know other parts of the country did have it before then). There is a FUSE box and a breaker box in the living room, and another breaker box in the utility room. No shut-off for the whole house that I can find. OLD wiring visible at the ceiling light fixtures in all four downstairs rooms. I know some of the wiring is newer than that, but it scares me -- and we keep popping breakers, and have blown two fuses, and we aren't big power users. The guy who bought our place in Oregon will be sending us a big check this month (when he sells his pot crop, sigh) and the first thing on the list is getting an electrician in here to completely rewire the house. Heat comes next.

    Kathleen
    Behold, these are the mere edges of His ways, and how small a whisper we hear of Him.
    Job 26:14

    wickr ID freeholder45

  23. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Freeholder View Post
    This house desperately needs to be rewired. Saving for that is one reason I need to be a little frugal with the heat for right now. The house was built circa 1930, and I'm pretty sure some of the wiring is close to that old (I don't know when they got electricity in this area; the part of the Oregon Coast where I was born didn't get power until the 1940's, but I know other parts of the country did have it before then). There is a FUSE box and a breaker box in the living room, and another breaker box in the utility room. No shut-off for the whole house that I can find. OLD wiring visible at the ceiling light fixtures in all four downstairs rooms. I know some of the wiring is newer than that, but it scares me -- and we keep popping breakers, and have blown two fuses, and we aren't big power users. The guy who bought our place in Oregon will be sending us a big check this month (when he sells his pot crop, sigh) and the first thing on the list is getting an electrician in here to completely rewire the house. Heat comes next.

    Kathleen
    Our house is also 1930 circa. Single story 1000 sq. ft. When we moved in (1980) it was a single bulb on a pull string, in the center of the room, and only 1 or 2 plugins per room.

    We have redone the wiring 2 times, putting in light switches adding lug ins, and replacing some of the really old single strand wires. The first time I did it. This last time I knew we would need to replace the fuse box increasing the size/wattage, so got a pro to do it.

    And if you are having those kinds of problems you need to upgrade yours as well.

    To replace, and up the wattage of the of the fuse box, new weather head, and wires from the weather head, through the new fuse box with trip switches, instead of fuses, new wire throughout with the latest and greatest, a few new plugins, cost=3000.00 plus 3 days without electricity during the day, while they were working. When they left for the day, they gave us the electricity back for over night.

    When they were done, they told me my place was pasted due, and we were lucky the house hasn't gone up already, and we weren't having the problems you are.

    So you got the size of our house, and the cost, and the area. Your cost will be more I'm sure, due to the same factors. So check around now, while you are waiting on the check to come, get some pros to come out, and give an estimate. Get references. You can compare costs, but just because some one is the cheapest, doesn't mean you should use them. Get someone who has been in the business a long time, and has a good rep.

    Someone who has a good rep. will usually be on the lower end of the estimate. Why, because they have a good rep. treat people right, and word of mouth alone keeps them in business. I have about 3-4 guys who work on stuff, small engines, car engines, handyman, and electrical etc. have done small fixes for free, just because they are nice people, and big jobs were reasonable. and what they did actually fixed it. I've sent a couple dozen folks their way for work, and they stay busy, and some backed up for a couple weeks to months.

    Forget the internet, start asking around in your community, they know.

  24. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaryC View Post
    Our house is also 1930 circa. Single story 1000 sq. ft. When we moved in (1980) it was a single bulb on a pull string, in the center of the room, and only 1 or 2 plugins per room.

    We have redone the wiring 2 times, putting in light switches adding lug ins, and replacing some of the really old single strand wires. The first time I did it. This last time I knew we would need to replace the fuse box increasing the size/wattage, so got a pro to do it.

    And if you are having those kinds of problems you need to upgrade yours as well.

    To replace, and up the wattage of the of the fuse box, new weather head, and wires from the weather head, through the new fuse box with trip switches, instead of fuses, new wire throughout with the latest and greatest, a few new plugins, cost=3000.00 plus 3 days without electricity during the day, while they were working. When they left for the day, they gave us the electricity back for over night.

    When they were done, they told me my place was pasted due, and we were lucky the house hasn't gone up already, and we weren't having the problems you are.

    So you got the size of our house, and the cost, and the area. Your cost will be more I'm sure, due to the same factors. So check around now, while you are waiting on the check to come, get some pros to come out, and give an estimate. Get references. You can compare costs, but just because some one is the cheapest, doesn't mean you should use them. Get someone who has been in the business a long time, and has a good rep.

    Someone who has a good rep. will usually be on the lower end of the estimate. Why, because they have a good rep. treat people right, and word of mouth alone keeps them in business. I have about 3-4 guys who work on stuff, small engines, car engines, handyman, and electrical etc. have done small fixes for free, just because they are nice people, and big jobs were reasonable. and what they did actually fixed it. I've sent a couple dozen folks their way for work, and they stay busy, and some backed up for a couple weeks to months.

    Forget the internet, start asking around in your community, they know.
    Yes, I'm going to ask at church -- somebody should be able to recommend a good electrician. That was how I found our plumber (the house needed the plumbing fixed -- we lived here several weeks with no water -- the house had been empty for a while).

    Thanks for the rough estimate on cost -- I'm glad to know because I'd been guessing a little lower than that. But we need extra outlets put in -- the house, like yours, only has one or two outlets in most rooms. It's not much bigger than yours, the extra is because we do have a finished attic, and the front and back porches have been enclosed (the back porch is where the washer and dryer are, and the hot water tank, and the freezer, plus some pantry storage space -- it has the newest wiring).

    In spite of all the work that needs to be done, or has already been done since we moved in, I'm not sorry I bought this house. I knew when I first looked at it that it needed a bunch of work. I bought it more for the location -- very private, at the end of a paved dead-end road and surrounded by cow pasture; we can only see one other house from here, and they aren't right next to our house.

    Kathleen
    Behold, these are the mere edges of His ways, and how small a whisper we hear of Him.
    Job 26:14

    wickr ID freeholder45

  25. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaryC View Post

    And yes most house fires are electrically caused. And is the reason it is recommended to have your house rewired every 20 years or so. With the heating and cooling of the wires the insulation gets brittle, and breaks/falls off and the open wire, heats up and can cause a fire. I'm sure the electrical industry has done some upgrades to that to help prevent that, but if you haven't replaced the wiring in your home in the last 20 or so, you don't have it.
    Absolutely INCORRECT information. Houses have been wired with Romex for a lot longer than 20 years, and there is ZERO issue with the wiring itself.

    Problems arise when circuits are OVER LOADED with many new appliances and equipment that didn't exist 20+ years ago. Also, HOW the house was wired plays into this. Did the electrician cut corners and not separate circuits, so multiple rooms are on the same breaker. Then when multiple A/C units or multiple space heaters, computers, microwaves, printers, TVs, etc are plugged into that one circuit, it causes overloading.

    Plus, there was an issue with some circuit breakers years ago that wouldn't trip when overloaded, which caused some fires.

    Now, back in the 70's, some houses were wired with aluminum wire, because of the cost of copper, and those houses have been known to have wiring issues on switches and receptacles, due to heat cycles on the aluminum wire. Those houses need to be evaluated and checked.

    One of the easiest things to do is have an electrician check your circuits to see if he can split up some circuits or isolate some rooms on to additional circuit breakers, if a known higher load exists in that room.
    ...Rubbin' is Racin'......

  26. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbbuddy View Post
    Just know that ventless propane heaters put out about 1 oz of water ( vapor) per 1000 btu per hour, so you need to have good air turnover or everything will soon be soggy....
    Thanks for your information. Because of your post and that of another member, I dug out the dehumidifier and have been running it. It has gotten colder and our propane heater has been on. The humidifier ran for only about 4 hours yesterday and the tank already filled up with water and had to be emptied.

    Your info explains a lot of things that have happened in the past.
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  27. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by changed View Post
    Thanks for your information. Because of your post and that of another member, I dug out the dehumidifier and have been running it. It has gotten colder and our propane heater has been on. The humidifier ran for only about 4 hours yesterday and the tank already filled up with water and had to be emptied.

    Your info explains a lot of things that have happened in the past.
    I run one year-round.

    They generally last about 3 years for me.

    The tubes corrode and start leaking...not worth repairing.
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  28. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Racing22 View Post
    Absolutely INCORRECT information. Houses have been wired with Romex for a lot longer than 20 years, and there is ZERO issue with the wiring itself.

    Problems arise when circuits are OVER LOADED with many new appliances and equipment that didn't exist 20+ years ago. Also, HOW the house was wired plays into this. Did the electrician cut corners and not separate circuits, so multiple rooms are on the same breaker. Then when multiple A/C units or multiple space heaters, computers, microwaves, printers, TVs, etc are plugged into that one circuit, it causes overloading.

    Plus, there was an issue with some circuit breakers years ago that wouldn't trip when overloaded, which caused some fires.

    Now, back in the 70's, some houses were wired with aluminum wire, because of the cost of copper, and those houses have been known to have wiring issues on switches and receptacles, due to heat cycles on the aluminum wire. Those houses need to be evaluated and checked.

    One of the easiest things to do is have an electrician check your circuits to see if he can split up some circuits or isolate some rooms on to additional circuit breakers, if a known higher load exists in that room.
    Everything you said was probably true, but if you don't know when your house was last rewired, not only for the reasons you stated, but also for the wiring itself, you should go ahead and redo it.

    Even with hiring a pro to separate rooms, if they are going to be there already running new wire, just have them do the old too.

    After all, it is your life, and your stuff, at risk.

  29. #69
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    I've dealt with plenty of 20+ year old romex.

    As long as it has not been exposed to sunlight, physical abuse or lots of bending cycles the insulation maintains it's integrity.

    I would consider replacing devices tho, the connections seem to get loose after years. When you pull devices out of the j-box, look closely to see if the insulation on each individual conductor is brittle and cracking.

    Rewiring after 20 years, just because... is unnecessary, IMO.


    ETA: We just closed up an addition to deer camp that had some 20-30 year old romex in it. I didn't see any problems with it and reused several runs. The worst part about old wiring is how the copper gets stiff and harder to work.
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  30. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millwright View Post
    I've dealt with plenty of 20+ year old romex.

    As long as it has not been exposed to sunlight, physical abuse or lots of bending cycles the insulation maintains it's integrity.

    I would consider replacing devices tho, the connections seem to get loose after years. When you pull devices out of the j-box, look closely to see if the insulation on each individual conductor is brittle and cracking.

    Rewiring after 20 years, just because... is unnecessary, IMO.
    Millwright, when you say to replace devices, what are you referring to? The light switches, light fixtures, or ?

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  31. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freeholder View Post
    Millwright, when you say to replace devices, what are you referring to? The light switches, light fixtures, or ?

    Kathleen
    Receptacles and switches, especially if they were installed with the deal where you just stick the wire in and not use the screw lug. I will not use those.

    i would pull a few covers off and just take a peek at the devices and wiring.

    Are they using screw lugs, is the wire discolored from heat, is the insulation cracking, etc?


    ETA: I have noticed that the newer (cheapo, builder grade) devices don't last as long as some of the older ones. There are 7YO plugs in the barndominium that are going south.
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  32. #72
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    A simple change for those worried about the wiring is to change over to arc-fault breakers. These will trip if they detect an arc (different than ground-fault breakers).

  33. #73
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    The best way to check things is with thermal,while the circuit is carrying a load.

    I had an A/C unit that was tripping the breaker randomly. After the second trip to a very remote location, I did a thorough troubleshooting, checked amp-draw, capacitors, etc. With thermal, I found loose connections at the breaker.

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  34. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millwright View Post
    Receptacles and switches, especially if they were installed with the deal where you just stick the wire in and not use the screw lug. I will not use those.

    i would pull a few covers off and just take a peek at the devices and wiring.

    Are they using screw lugs, is the wire discolored from heat, is the insulation cracking, etc?
    Another big thing with older receptacles, if they get used a lot, is that the female contacts inside get loose, and you can have arcing and heat build-up on the male portion of the item plugged in, due to bad connection.

    If a receptacle doesn't have a tight, snug fit, and the male plug feels loose, get the receptacle replaced.

    Same with light switches that are used frequently. They can wear out and arc internally. If the switch feels "funky", replace it.
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