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ECON 3 Big Retirement Vehicles Now Under Severe Stress
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  1. #1
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    21 3 Big Retirement Vehicles Now Under Severe Stress





    3 Big Retirement Vehicles Now Under Severe Stress


    October 10, 2018

    http://bit.ly/2CcsH7s
    https://www.birchgold.com




    You’ve probably heard the saying, a rising tide lifts all boats. It means a strong or improving economy benefits everyone. And it should. The problem is, the “boats” that most people are in these days have leaks.

    It’s possible that you might not be aware of how big those leaks really are. But if that’s the case, it isn’t all your fault; the mainstream media still paints a rosy picture, even though reality is much different.

    Let’s take a look at these three “leaky” retirement vehicles:

    Savings
    Pensions
    Social Security

    More than Half of Middle Class Households Don’t Have Enough Retirement Savings

    One of the main features of the much-advertised “American Dream” was the attaining the status of middle class (defined as having an income between $50,000 – $100,000).

    Post World War II, a middle class income and savings were all that was needed to support the average family.

    But that dream is in a desperate state of disrepair. According to a recent MarketWatch article, it’s all but disappeared:

    54% of middle-income households (defined as income ranging from $48,000 to $95,000) don’t have enough saved to maintain a decent retirement. That’s the same percentage as in 2010, when the stock run-up was in its early stages, according to a study by the Center for Retirement Research at Boston College.

    It’s fairly obvious (and tragic) that households in the “poor” category won’t be able to save much for retirement. They have to put food on the table, but encounter challenges even doing that.

    What’s alarming is that 5 out of every 10 middle income households can’t save enough to maintain a decent retirement either.

    That percentage comes out of a shrinking middle class group, with an ever-shrinking median income, according to a 2015 article from NPR:

    “The hollowing of the middle has proceeded steadily for the past four decades,” Pew concluded.

    And middle-income Americans not only have shrunk as a share of the population but have fallen further behind financially, with their median income down 4 percent compared with the year 2000, Pew said.

    If middle income families number less and less, and have less income, it’s no wonder they have a hard time saving for retirement. Especially when you consider today’s CPI inflation rate.

    More and more families have nothing saved. But retirement savings are only one-third of the “Big 3” picture.
    Here’s the Rest of the Retirement Reality for 2018 Forward

    When baseball players are out on the field, they follow a set of rules. Change a rule or two, and it won’t really affect their performance.

    But if you told them they have to play football, many would not be able to make the adjustment without their performance suffering dramatically.

    The average middle income family is about to be forcefully switched from baseball to football. You didn’t vote for it, and you had no say in it, but this retirement “game change” is likely going to happen. Here’s why…

    In addition to deficient savings among the low and middle class, both pensions and Social Security seem to be heading for the sunset.

    Check out these three startling finds by Paul Brandus at MarketWatch:

    Just 9% of workers in their 50s have a pension, down from about 25% three decades ago…
    46% don’t even participate in a retirement plan at work…
    Unless something is done to shore up Social Security, payouts could be cut by about 21% come 2034—which is closer than it sounds.

    How can someone play a different retirement “game” if they aren’t even prepared for it? The answer is they can’t.

    But why aren’t they prepared? The blame doesn’t rest entirely on retirement savers. In fact, the situation might be out of your control.

    The other two-thirds of the “Big 3” for traditional retirement are broken. Public and private pensions are in big trouble, and Social Security’s clock is ticking.

    According to Pew Research, as of 2016, only 4 states had 90% of the financial assets required to pay promised benefits.

    According to a recent LA Times article, Social Security payouts could be cut significantly over the next decade.

    If you don’t consider doing something now, then when these major changes come to fruition, you’ll be left footing the bill.
    So Tip the “Rules of Retirement” in Your Favor

    If you have a public or private pension, you need to keep an eye on it. As for Social Security, it’s becoming less and less reliable as time goes on.

    It’s important to start saving for retirement if you haven’t already, even if it’s only a little bit. But you also have to make sure your retirement portfolio is stable. Having precious metals like gold and silver is one example. As Doug Casey told us, “… it’s the only asset that isn’t simultaneously someone else’s liability.”

    You need to tip the rules of the retirement game in your favor by learning to “see” bubbles as they are forming.

    You also need to diversify, looking at all markets, and examining all commodities. Don’t only pay attention to mainstream media. Instead, develop trustworthy alternatives.

    Quit playing by “their” rules, and develop better ones that allow you to perform your best.
    MGTOW
    Resist Or Submit.
    It is too late, for words...

    ______Resistor
    ____/VVVVVV\__

  2. #2
    I'm lucky enough to have a pension. I'm vested now to get it at age 60. If I leave my job now, my pension would be, get this, $11K/year. If I stayed in my current position, I could possibly increase my pension to $20K/year. It just isn't worth stay in law enforcement for that.

    I know that in the US, we preach individuality over "group think," but now the financial greed of the individual (or a very small collective of individuals) is basically destroying the country. All the good paying jobs for the average person went overseas while the companies that profited on those items that were manufactured kept prices the same.

    My wife and I have always been "middle income" as defined by the above article, but when we were on the lower end of the range, we were much more frugal with our money. We didn't get to splurge on vacations, homes, cars, etc.. When we got into the higher range was when we finally spent some more on vacations and cars. Spent too much on a new home a few years back. We are in a better financial position than most so we don’t have a financial burden over our heads.

    I've seen the tide turn though. Seems corporations and governments might actually be waking up to the fact they were basically turning the country into a violence ridden Brazil. The Amazon minimum pay of $15/hour is a start. Numerous weeks of paid leave for new parents is a start. Trump is also doing what needs to be done with tariffs. We just need to make it too costly to import things made by near slave labor in other parts of the world and we get more jobs here, likely paying at least $15/hour. Higher ed is collapsing as well.

    So take all the above and it isn't shocking people can't, or won't, save for retirement. Of course the people really freaking out is Wall Street (less money for 401(k)s) and the US Gov. (less assets to confiscate when long term care is needed).

    Interesting times we live in.
    Last edited by Ravekid; 10-11-2018 at 07:14 AM.

  3. #3
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    Just read the other day that 60 percent of Americans have absolutely zero in retirement savings. Not surprising given the increased prices at the grocery store and the stagnancy of wages.

    The article's advice is a pantload, by the way. "Learn to see bubbles as they form." What's next? "Learn to see the future and then go to the dog track"?

  4. #4
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    I retired at 60 and 9 months (could have gone as soon as I turned 60) from local government.

    Each month I stayed increased my retirement draw by $8/month. That was only $96 a year that I remained there.

    It was so totally not worth it to keep working, should have gone at age 60 plus 1 month.

    Now 3 years later, wife and I both took social security at the year end of the year we turned 62. Couldn't start SS mid year due to O'care.

    Between our SS and a couple of pensions, we are actually saving more now than when working.

    Wife's first husband recently died, looks like maybe she has survivor benefits to his pension, maybe more $$$/month.

    I have another pension (about $460/month) that I could not draw early that will start in about 10 months, along with Medicare.

    Had a 401k that I rolled into an individual IRA. Can't touch it due to O'care and tax issues (still years away from being forced to withdraw from it).

    So for us at least up until now and for the immediate future, our retirement seems to be working fairly well.

  5. #5
    Well, our savings is needing to be built up after the relocate to near the BOL. BUT, we now having running water on it and it's nearly ready to grow on, we'll finish getting it ready (deer fence, etc) this winter. I'll take good land and water (it's AWESOME water) any time. Maybe I don't need a million bucks in the bank if I have what I need to live.
    Repeal the 15th
    Rewrite the 14th
    We Must Secure the Existance of Our People and a Future for White Children
    Make America Confederate Again
    2020 Is Going To Be A ClusterF*ck

  6. #6
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    Ride the horse until it drops dead. For those who didn't save and even if you did, it could always be confiscated. 99.9% of the stuff we worry about never happens. I can't tell you how many articles are out there squawking about PURS is broke, Teamster Union pension funds aren't funded, immmenient bankruptcy of States, counties, and cities. There's been at least 2 that I know of since '08 that field for bankruptcy, Stockton and Vallejo, CA. They have since recovered. Stockton is giving out free money to residents for living there.

    https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/09/tec...ent/index.html

    https://mycentralstatespension.org/h...pension-crisis

    I can post more, but they keep paying out, they're getting the money from some where. Increased taxes on property, and the things we buy. The civil war that's a poll here at TB, probably won't be a political war, it will be a basic living war. When you take someone's livelihood away, now you're talking war. So until then, stay on the horse until it drops dead. If the Democrats get back into office, TSWHTF.
    People create their own questions because they are afraid to look straight. All you have to do is look straight and see the road, and when you see it, don't sit looking at it - walk. Ayn Rand

  7. #7
    Why would someone save for retirement? Retirement is a completely unnatural act caused by working a job that you detest. Why not just find satisfying things to fill your time that happen to make money?


    Retiring IMHO reflects the sad state of our current civilization.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacknarwhal View Post
    Just read the other day that 60 percent of Americans have absolutely zero in retirement savings. Not surprising given the increased prices at the grocery store and the stagnancy of wages.
    That's NOT the reason why people don't have retirement savings. It's NOT from grocery prices or low wages.

    The reason is the "I want it NOW" mindset, with $200/month cell bills, $250 month cable bills, the new $1000 iPhone X once a year to impress their friends, the $5 Lattes, Fast food every meal, the new cars with 96 month payment plans, etc. etc etc.

    People don't have retirement savings because they CHOOSE not to save, and instead CHOOSE to blow their complete paychecks each week.
    ...Rubbin' is Racin'......

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanb999 View Post
    Why would someone save for retirement? Retirement is a completely unnatural act caused by working a job that you detest. Why not just find satisfying things to fill your time that happen to make money?


    Retiring IMHO reflects the sad state of our current civilization.
    Because a lot of those satisfying things that fill your time don't actually make money? Or do so only unreliably at best?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racing22 View Post
    That's NOT the reason why people don't have retirement savings. It's NOT from grocery prices or low wages.

    The reason is the "I want it NOW" mindset, with $200/month cell bills, $250 month cable bills, the new $1000 iPhone X once a year to impress their friends, the $5 Lattes, Fast food every meal, the new cars with 96 month payment plans, etc. etc etc.

    People don't have retirement savings because they CHOOSE not to save, and instead CHOOSE to blow their complete paychecks each week.
    Your mistake is believing that that's true for everybody all the time. Your suggestion is only partially accurate as it ignores quantifiable pricing data on basic living necessities.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanb999 View Post
    Why would someone save for retirement? Retirement is a completely unnatural act caused by working a job that you detest. Why not just find satisfying things to fill your time that happen to make money?


    Retiring IMHO reflects the sad state of our current civilization.
    Because we like to travel and in order to travel you have to have money to do so. Being a slave to someone else is not my idea of "retirement." Not having to put my panty hose on at 5:00 am, hit the road in wind and rain just to be someone's lackey for 10 hours or more. Go home, and get ready to do it all over again. We toughed it out and now it's our turn to enjoy whatever we have left. Retirement is my "happy state of my current civilization and loving every minute of it." Even if you're the boss, you still have the headaches of making it work. Work is not in my vocabulary.
    People create their own questions because they are afraid to look straight. All you have to do is look straight and see the road, and when you see it, don't sit looking at it - walk. Ayn Rand

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Blacknarwhal View Post
    Because a lot of those satisfying things that fill your time don't actually make money? Or do so only unreliably at best?
    Why not? wouldn't living the way you want for 80 years be better than living 15 or 20 the way you want but are really too old to enjoy?

    Save and save 15-20% a year so you can have a nice retirement... Why not just live as you wish for 15-20% less income..

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Bardou View Post
    Because we like to travel and in order to travel you have to have money to do so. Being a slave to someone else is not my idea of "retirement." Not having to put my panty hose on at 5:00 am, hit the road in wind and rain just to be someone's lackey for 10 hours or more. Go home, and get ready to do it all over again. We toughed it out and now it's our turn to enjoy whatever we have left. Retirement is my "happy state of my current civilization and loving every minute of it." Even if you're the boss, you still have the headaches of making it work. Work is not in my vocabulary.
    Why would you think for a second that life is fair?

    Why not do something useful as you travel? Like collect hard to find items and resell them. You could have started traveling in your 20's. What a waste.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanb999 View Post
    Why not? wouldn't living the way you want for 80 years be better than living 15 or 20 the way you want but are really too old to enjoy?

    Save and save 15-20% a year so you can have a nice retirement... Why not just live as you wish for 15-20% less income..
    Because "living the way you want" might make no money at all, not just "15-20% less." You assume that you can sell everything you make. Most of the time that's just not true, even if you can afford decent marketing. Just ask anyone who's ever tried to sell a book they wrote on Amazon.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanb999 View Post
    Why would you think for a second that life is fair?

    Why not do something useful as you travel? Like collect hard to find items and resell them. You could have started traveling in your 20's. What a waste.
    Where in my comment did you think I SAID THAT LIFE IS FAIR?

    What's useful to you may not be useful to me. I am doing something useful when we travel. I see and experience what I have never seen and experienced before in my lifetime. We aren't on this planet forever ya know. I did the collect and resell thing, now it's time to cut that stuff loose and not be so much into "stuff." How do you know we didn't travel in our 20's? WOW! You know so much about me that you say "what a waste." We took our kids with us, and they travel now that they are adults because they haven't seen all that they want to see. You really do ASS-U-ME too much.

    P.S. Panama Canal cruise next month - 20 day. Australia in January - 30 day. All paid for. Life is fair when you do it the right way.

    Here's a nice little song to get you moving!



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYAarUjMELc

    3:30 minutes long
    People create their own questions because they are afraid to look straight. All you have to do is look straight and see the road, and when you see it, don't sit looking at it - walk. Ayn Rand

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racing22 View Post
    That's NOT the reason why people don't have retirement savings. It's NOT from grocery prices or low wages.

    The reason is the "I want it NOW" mindset, with $200/month cell bills, $250 month cable bills, the new $1000 iPhone X once a year to impress their friends, the $5 Lattes, Fast food every meal, the new cars with 96 month payment plans, etc. etc etc.

    People don't have retirement savings because they CHOOSE not to save, and instead CHOOSE to blow their complete paychecks each week.
    Horse manure. You are tarring everyone 'out there' with the same brush. Yes, some have fallen into that trap. But nowhere near all, as you are implying. What used to be the 'middle class' in both Canada and the USA has imploded... costs of living compared to actual income are so out of whack, it is insane. And it's not just groceries, or low wages. My rig is a 2005 escape, with 340,000 km. Wifes is a 2006 Santa Fe. Both we paid cash for, as there was no way in h*ll we could afford a bank loan. We scrape the barrel twice every month just to pay the mortgage. There is such a shortage of affordable housing in my region that single mothers and their kids are living in tents.. the desperation on facebook in some rental groups could make you cry... i am a rep in my area for a food share group... the stories are horrifying at times. Retirement fund? Ha. Good luck with that.

    1Pe 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore of sound mind, and be sober unto prayer

    Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
    Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him.


  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacknarwhal View Post
    Your mistake is believing that that's true for everybody all the time. Your suggestion is only partially accurate as it ignores quantifiable pricing data on basic living necessities.
    It's true for the majority of people, as it's a choice. Plain and simple.

    I know people who make $30K a year and live paycheck to paycheck, and don't save. I also know people who make $300K a year and live paycheck to paycheck, and don't save.

    The formula is really simple, no matter what you make. Save at least 10% pretax, before you even get your check, then you won't miss it. Then save 10% after tax for an emergency fund.

    Live on the rest... Which means changing and adjusting your spending. PERIOD. That a CHOICE for EVERYONE. No one is forced by gunpoint to spend their entire paycheck each week.

    That works uniformly everywhere. No need for quantifiable data.
    ...Rubbin' is Racin'......

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racing22 View Post
    It's true for the majority of people, as it's a choice. Plain and simple.

    I know people who make $30K a year and live paycheck to paycheck, and don't save. I also know people who make $300K a year and live paycheck to paycheck, and don't save.

    The formula is really simple, no matter what you make. Save at least 10% pretax, before you even get your check, then you won't miss it. Then save 10% after tax for an emergency fund.

    Live on the rest... Which means changing and adjusting your spending. PERIOD. That a CHOICE for EVERYONE. No one is forced by gunpoint to spend their entire paycheck each week.

    That works uniformly everywhere. No need for quantifiable data.
    This is true.

    People don't want to save. They want to live better now, not 40 years from now. Result will be as article indicates

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racing22 View Post
    It's true for the majority of people, as it's a choice. Plain and simple.

    I know people who make $30K a year and live paycheck to paycheck, and don't save. I also know people who make $300K a year and live paycheck to paycheck, and don't save.

    The formula is really simple, no matter what you make. Save at least 10% pretax, before you even get your check, then you won't miss it. Then save 10% after tax for an emergency fund.

    Live on the rest... Which means changing and adjusting your spending. PERIOD. That a CHOICE for EVERYONE. No one is forced by gunpoint to spend their entire paycheck each week.

    That works uniformly everywhere. No need for quantifiable data.
    What you are saying is true. Most aren't disciplined to do it. We were disciplined and the reward is paying off for us in retirement. Smartphone? It's a Tracphone - my minutes expire in 2040, it will probably out live me, and it cost me about $50 a year. No TV, so cable is cheap. House is paid for - we disciplined ourselves to pay it off as fast as we could - 10 years ahead of time. We were getting ready to retire. It's either, "now, later or never." We started early to enjoy it later. Worked for us.
    People create their own questions because they are afraid to look straight. All you have to do is look straight and see the road, and when you see it, don't sit looking at it - walk. Ayn Rand

  20. #20
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    Who else here had their 401k just about obliterated in 2007? There's where a significant part of those that were saving got FRAGED. Add that to over 20 years of general economic "issues" and such, like FRN devaluation, and "they" wonder why the saving rates are so low?...(As for myself, roll the string quartet, my remaining savings got burned up taking care of family emergencies, both health and health secondary effects driven, to the point that at 48 I was literally starting over at a level lower than in my 20s. Pre-stroke and 4 years later I was actually starting to see a dim light down the tunnel (even with all the drama I've had to deal with in the last 18 months). Now that tunnel has gotten a lot steeper and that light has gotten a lot dimmer, but it is still there...

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Bardou View Post
    Where in my comment did you think I SAID THAT LIFE IS FAIR?
    From your first reply to me... "We toughed it out and now it's our turn"

    Like I said in my very first comment. The reason people want a retirement is because you choose to stay in a shitty job or career.

    If instead of having a shitty job or career you choose to live as you wished every day would be the life you want. Life without work is a simple waste.




    This is where

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racing22 View Post
    It's true for the majority of people, as it's a choice. Plain and simple.

    I know people who make $30K a year and live paycheck to paycheck, and don't save. I also know people who make $300K a year and live paycheck to paycheck, and don't save.

    The formula is really simple, no matter what you make. Save at least 10% pretax, before you even get your check, then you won't miss it. Then save 10% after tax for an emergency fund.

    Live on the rest... Which means changing and adjusting your spending. PERIOD. That a CHOICE for EVERYONE. No one is forced by gunpoint to spend their entire paycheck each week.

    That works uniformly everywhere. No need for quantifiable data.
    And where do you put that money?

    In a bank, where inflation will slowly grind it into nothing?

    In bonds, where profligate governments will waste it before defaulting and declaring your investment void?

    In stocks, where the rigged market will suck out all the value like a monkey on an orange?

    In precious metals, which may or may not hold any value by the time you're finally ready to retire?

    You're graphically oversimplifying things here.

  23. #23
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    Not working for some company means you have to buy your own health insurance which I can tell you is Very expensive. Plus if you or your spouse have a pre-existing condition (before Obamacare) then outside of the group plan you could NOT buy health insurance.
    I worked at jobs just because of the health insurance. We have always been savers (very frugal) and I was able to mostly retire at 52.
    But health insurance is still a BIG deal. Where I live there is only one health insurance company. One. No shopping around. If you don't have health insurance you run the risk of losing all your assets. A BIG risk. Health issues are the number one cause of personal bankruptcy.
    I have always been happy enough at my jobs and if not I changed jobs. My last job paid good but I only had about 1 to 2 hours of work per day. It was so incredibly boring I quit and never worked for anyplace else since.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacknarwhal View Post
    And where do you put that money?

    In a bank, where inflation will slowly grind it into nothing?

    In bonds, where profligate governments will waste it before defaulting and declaring your investment void?

    In stocks, where the rigged market will suck out all the value like a monkey on an orange?

    In precious metals, which may or may not hold any value by the time you're finally ready to retire?

    You're graphically oversimplifying things here.
    How about simply - All the Above - that's called diversification.

    Or, should we take the other simple route that you seem to be implying, and save nothing and spend it all NOW? Is that a better choice for the future?
    ...Rubbin' is Racin'......

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Housecarl View Post
    Who else here had their 401k just about obliterated in 2007? There's where a significant part of those that were saving got FRAGED.
    How about everyone who had a 401K at that time (me included). But, unless you decided to cash out in 2008 or 2009, and had some time, guess where the market is now, 10 years later?

    When the market took the dive back in 2008, it was up to around 14K. It fell down to around the 7K mark at the bottom. It took almost 5 years to just get back to break even again, which was 2013.

    What would have happened if you just let your 401K run, and not touched it since 2007? Right now, as I type this, it's at 25.4K, so you would have gained back all the losses PLUS MORE than another 50%. See how saving actually works?

    Then again, if you never contributed to your 401K or IRA, you had zero in 2007 to lose, and you still have zero in 2018 to lose........
    ...Rubbin' is Racin'......

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racing22 View Post
    How about everyone who had a 401K at that time (me included). But, unless you decided to cash out in 2008 or 2009, and had some time, guess where the market is now, 10 years later?

    When the market took the dive back in 2008, it was up to around 14K. It fell down to around the 7K mark at the bottom. It took almost 5 years to just get back to break even again, which was 2013.

    What would have happened if you just let your 401K run, and not touched it since 2007? Right now, as I type this, it's at 25.4K, so you would have gained back all the losses PLUS MORE than another 50%. See how saving actually works?

    Then again, if you never contributed to your 401K or IRA, you had zero in 2007 to lose, and you still have zero in 2018 to lose........
    Read the rest of my post with regards my my specific situation...

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Racing22 View Post
    How about everyone who had a 401K at that time (me included). But, unless you decided to cash out in 2008 or 2009, and had some time, guess where the market is now, 10 years later?

    When the market took the dive back in 2008, it was up to around 14K. It fell down to around the 7K mark at the bottom. It took almost 5 years to just get back to break even again, which was 2013.

    What would have happened if you just let your 401K run, and not touched it since 2007? Right now, as I type this, it's at 25.4K, so you would have gained back all the losses PLUS MORE than another 50%. See how saving actually works?

    Then again, if you never contributed to your 401K or IRA, you had zero in 2007 to lose, and you still have zero in 2018 to lose........
    If you have time that's fine. If you're in late 40's to mid 50's you have to think about what you're going to do, you're a fool to stay high or moderate risk that late in things. Sure, SOME have recovered but what about the 62 year old in 07 that got wiped out? I don't have forever to recover over and over.
    Repeal the 15th
    Rewrite the 14th
    We Must Secure the Existance of Our People and a Future for White Children
    Make America Confederate Again
    2020 Is Going To Be A ClusterF*ck

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Housecarl View Post
    Read the rest of my post with regards my my specific situation...
    I'm talking in generalities in my post, which fit the majority of the readers. Yes, people have specific situations that come up, that have to be handled, like yours.

    But even your situation shows the need to SAVE as much as possible as early as possible, because none of us has a crystal ball to know the future. This is why emergency savings are so important, as well as a Plan B or Plan C. We will never know ahead of time what "surprises" are waiting for us, but having a savings cushion certainly helps.
    ...Rubbin' is Racin'......

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racing22 View Post
    How about simply - All the Above - that's called diversification.

    Or, should we take the other simple route that you seem to be implying, and save nothing and spend it all NOW? Is that a better choice for the future?
    So instead of putting my money in one losing investment, I should put it in several?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoMoreLibs View Post
    If you have time that's fine. If you're in late 40's to mid 50's you have to think about what you're going to do, you're a fool to stay high or moderate risk that late in things. Sure, SOME have recovered but what about the 62 year old in 07 that got wiped out? I don't have forever to recover over and over.

    That's why everyone needs to have a plan and pre-plan. At 62, the plan would be to NOT have 100% in the market, specifically for the reason of recovery. The window is too short.

    The general guideline to follow is to take 100 then subtract your age, the answer should be the percentage of your 401K or IRA that should be in the market. So, if your 62, the general guideline would be to have 38% of your money invested in stocks and 62% in bonds or safer investments. That's a good back of the envelope way to plan. Obviously, depending on the investments, that can be tweaked, but it makes for a good starting point to keep your money safe.

    A 40 year old should have 60% (or more if he is OK with more risk) or so of his investments in stocks, as he has time to ride out a hit if he gets one.
    ...Rubbin' is Racin'......

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacknarwhal View Post
    So instead of putting my money in one losing investment, I should put it in several?
    Does the dark cloud follow you everywhere you go?
    ...Rubbin' is Racin'......

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanb999 View Post
    Why would someone save for retirement?
    Because Mr. Murphy has a way of visiting at the worst possible times: you could suffer a heart attack or a stroke and end up in a welfare facility being cared for by a bunch of yahoos who speak another language and steal everything not nailed down. You could also end up losing your sight or other sorts of medical disasters over which you have no control.

    If you have a little savings and a "retire in place" small, affordable house, you have a much better chance of avoiding ending up in a facility. Life is like a s--t sandwich: the more bread you have, the less s--t you have to eat.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racing22 View Post
    Does the dark cloud follow you everywhere you go?
    I'm sorry, does my honesty frighten you?

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racing22 View Post
    Does the dark cloud follow you everywhere you go?
    He lives in Michigan, okay? He is much like some of my friends who are still there and just can't imagine life where the economy is decent, people have steady jobs, and doom/gloom are not constant companions.

    I left Michigan in 1987 and never looked back.

    That said, I'm still a pragmatic Midwesterner.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanb999 View Post
    From your first reply to me... "We toughed it out and now it's our turn"

    Like I said in my very first comment. The reason people want a retirement is because you choose to stay in a shitty job or career.

    If instead of having a shitty job or career you choose to live as you wished every day would be the life you want. Life without work is a simple waste.




    This is where
    There's nothing in my comment about fairness. Don't add words or innuendos that aren't there.

    Like I said in my very first comment. The reason people want a retirement is because you choose to stay in a shitty job or career.

    If instead of having a shitty job or career you choose to live as you wished every day would be the life you want. Life without work is a simple waste.
    The money was good, the bennies were great and we invested wisely. Life without work is GREAT! Go wherever we want, do whatever we want, and planning the next vacation is WORK, but the best kind!
    People create their own questions because they are afraid to look straight. All you have to do is look straight and see the road, and when you see it, don't sit looking at it - walk. Ayn Rand

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanb999 View Post
    Why would someone save for retirement? Retirement is a completely unnatural act caused by working a job that you detest. Why not just find satisfying things to fill your time that happen to make money?
    Why would someone save for retirement? I saved for old age. I don't care who you are, at some point you will not be able to work. This could happen at 50 years old or 80 years old. With no savings you would then do what- -become a ward of the state? Be a burden on your family?

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meemur View Post
    He lives in Michigan, okay? He is much like some of my friends who are still there and just can't imagine life where the economy is decent, people have steady jobs, and doom/gloom are not constant companions.

    I left Michigan in 1987 and never looked back.

    That said, I'm still a pragmatic Midwesterner.
    Yep, it's rough living in a right-to-work state, where you can be fired at any time for any reason, including none.

  38. #38
    Everyone is different. Some plan ahead and some don't. Some have illness or other calamities befall them and some don't. Some spend too much through the years buying toys they don't need and others either don't want the toys or are disciplined enough to tell themselves no and do without. It is good to save for retirement. Normally, if you've planned ahead with no serious financial calamities like illness, you will need far less income after you retire unless you plan on extensive travel. Plan to have your home payed for when you retire. Take advantage of 401K's or other retirement plans. After you retire you will no longer be spending money on work clothes, gas to get to work, etc. You will have more time to cook things from scratch at home which saves money. Most find the older they get the fewer things they want and the less they eat. I'm 71 and retired from my main job at 58 with a pension of $1000 a month and my wife retired a month later with a pension of $700 a month. We got along fine on that and have yet to touch my 401K after 13 years except what the government makes me withdraw every year because I am over 70 and 1/2. No big deal, we still have the money. Just had to withdraw it from the 401K and put it in a savings account. Now with pensions and SS we have about $50K a year and still save over $1K a month. We go on vacation one week a year but we aren't big on traveling. Just not much we want. Wife gets a new car about every 3-4 years and I still drive a 1998 Toyota pickup with almost 300K on it. Have no plans to replace it.

  39. #39
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    Retired at 52, over a decade ago, no specific retirement or other identifiable savings, had opted out of Social (In)Security, small feral grabblement pension, however am I still making it???
    The wonder of our time isn’t how angry we are at politics and politicians; it’s how little we’ve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Racing22 View Post
    That's why everyone needs to have a plan and pre-plan. At 62, the plan would be to NOT have 100% in the market, specifically for the reason of recovery. The window is too short.

    The general guideline to follow is to take 100 then subtract your age, the answer should be the percentage of your 401K or IRA that should be in the market. So, if your 62, the general guideline would be to have 38% of your money invested in stocks and 62% in bonds or safer investments. That's a good back of the envelope way to plan. Obviously, depending on the investments, that can be tweaked, but it makes for a good starting point to keep your money safe.

    A 40 year old should have 60% (or more if he is OK with more risk) or so of his investments in stocks, as he has time to ride out a hit if he gets one.
    Sounds great on paper. But to think you're still going to lose 1/2 or more of your lower percentage, maybe never making it back. Ouch. And who exactly is getting that money you just lost? It didn't just disappear.

    Everyone is different. It's great you're advising folks but I don't think belittling anyone is needed. We don't know each other's situations, etc, etc.
    Repeal the 15th
    Rewrite the 14th
    We Must Secure the Existance of Our People and a Future for White Children
    Make America Confederate Again
    2020 Is Going To Be A ClusterF*ck

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