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BRKG At Least 60 buildings hit with fires and gas explosions in massacchusetts, 1 Dead, 25 Injured
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  1. #41
    Remember the Russian jet from Egypt that was bombed. Authorities were quick to blame stress fatigue for weeks. Too many safeties have to fail at once for this to be an accident.

    And yes..closing your manual block valve will protect you home

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    Remember the Russian jet from Egypt that was bombed. Authorities were quick to blame stress fatigue for weeks. Too many safeties have to fail at once for this to be an accident.

    And yes..closing your manual block valve will protect you home
    Just be careful not to hit metal-on-metal and create a spark while doing it, I'd imagine....
    Be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled…Let no man deceive you by any means…..
    they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved….for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie….
    Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


  3. #43
    To bad people do not know how to shut off the gas to their homes. That may have saved some of them.
    Matthew 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibetiny View Post
    Happened here before. Google a b chance in centrailia missouri. At dinner and my trac phone cant do much. Blew out reguulators like they werent even there
    That must be one crazy over pressure situation. The regulators can normally handle 65 psi exposure limits. Considering residential area are normally a max of 2 psi that is a serious over pressure.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Baron View Post
    I've heard of main lines over-pressurizing and sending flames two feet high on gas appliances that were on inside of a home or business.

    Also a leaking gas line can infiltrate sewer systems and get inside of homes.

    Wouldn't rule out a control system hack either?
    There was a similar explosion in some central or south american country about 20 years ago resulting in hundreds of deaths. Gas line was routed through the sewer line and some utility punctured the gas line while digging IIRC.
    People are quick to confuse and despise confidence as arrogance but that is common amongst those who have never accomplished anything in their lives and who have always played it safe not willing to risk failure.

  6. #46
    The fact that has happened in other places..lowers the chances that this is an accident. Large liability incidents result in stricter regulations and more safeties put into place.

  7. #47
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    They are saying 70 confirmed fires and or explosions. They are canceling schools up there tomorrow. We are watching Fox Boston

  8. #48
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    sounds like a fuster-cluck on the scanner feed. dispatch needs an ambulance and cruiser to help a diabled lady, but can't get in touch with ambulance. He is talking to staging guy who is fire apparatus only, no ambulance.

  9. #49
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    Doc1 You have no idea what your talking about.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistaken1 View Post
    To bad people do not know how to shut off the gas to their homes. That may have saved some of them.
    Line up the "circles":

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyEfXqMh74A



    A gas technician at the video also added this note:

    As a gas technician, I'd like to add some important tips to this. You can turn off that gas valve fast, slow, doesn't matter. But when you turn it back on, it has to be done in a very slow manner, or the incoming high pressure can slam into the regulator and puncture the diaphragm. Also, today's appliance all have safeties on their pilots that prevent them from being "on" when you turn the gas back on. Thermocouples shut them off after a minute with no lit pilot to energize the safeties. Unless you have some really old POS, or maybe a burner left on with a range, you don't need to worry about having a pilot suddenly running when you turn the gas back on. If unsure, mark the dials on the meter and watch the meter for a good half hour to see if they move. Obviously make sure no appliances with automatic ignition suddenly fire up. Such as power vented appliances, or you'll have to try the dial test again... The dial test is also an easy test for anybody if they suspect a gas leak.
    Be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled…Let no man deceive you by any means…..
    they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved….for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie….
    Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


  11. #51
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    Possibilities:

    1) deferred maintenance and/or poorly trained maintenance workers

    2) sudden, unpredictable failure of key element despite adequate maintenance (but there should be backups, right?)

    3) industrial sabotage (muzzies?)

    4) industrial sabotage (meth addicts, crackheads)

    5) industrial sabotage (antifa?) - but MA is a mostly blue state

    6) something else entirely...

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Countrymouse View Post
    That's what I was thinking---IF you don't yet smell gas in your home, SHUT OFF your main breaker---then turn all pilot lights OFF---then get OUT.

    Question to any former gas-company guys--in an "overpressure" situation, would it do ANY good to get a wrench (IF the gas isn't leaking or over-pressurizing at your house, YET) and TURN OFF the gas at the meter?


    Or would the over-pressurized line just blow apart anyway, regardless?
    Yep that valve will probably hold several hundred pounds back. They may be rated to 150 or something like that.

  13. #53
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    1,000s upon 1,000s of gas regulators are going to need replacement. If they were exposed to very high pressures they can’t ever be trusted again.

    I am emailing back and forth with my engineering team and we are struggling with the current explanation. These engineers only deal with NFPA. One guy has 38 years experience.

  14. #54
    This just in,,,, all liberal cities are extremely high danger areas now, and the methane build up from all of the underground crap has built to such high proportions that explosions are eminent.............. now back to your normal fake news channel...............
    NO MORE INFRINGEMENT.
    NO MORE COMPROMISE.
    NOT ONE MORE INCH.

  15. #55
    Having said that, I hope innocent people stay safe.....
    NO MORE INFRINGEMENT.
    NO MORE COMPROMISE.
    NOT ONE MORE INCH.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Countrymouse View Post
    That's what I was thinking---IF you don't yet smell gas in your home, SHUT OFF your main breaker---then turn all pilot lights OFF---then get OUT.

    Question to any former gas-company guys--in an "overpressure" situation, would it do ANY good to get a wrench (IF the gas isn't leaking or over-pressurizing at your house, YET) and TURN OFF the gas at the meter?


    Or would the over-pressurized line just blow apart anyway, regardless?
    In Oklahoma and in California all gas services that go into residential and commercial properties have a heavy duty main valve at the meter and sometimes just before it enters the structures.

    Turn those off and even 100 + pounds will not defeat those gas valves.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by West View Post
    In Oklahoma and in California all gas services that go into residential and commercial properties have a heavy duty main valve at the meter and sometimes just before it enters the structures.

    Turn those off and even 100 + pounds will not defeat those gas valves.
    Exactly....how could the service gotten to those pressures? There are high pressure cut off devices that close spring return valves on service lines.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warm Wisconsin View Post
    Exactly....how could the service gotten to those pressures? There are high pressure cut off devices that close spring return valves on service lines.
    Plus they have to have pressure sensors throughout the system that would alert them to an over pressure condition. Was someone asleep at the switch or maybe hackers disabled the alert system? Very strange.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    The fact that has happened in other places..lowers the chances that this is an accident. Large liability incidents result in stricter regulations and more safeties put into place.
    Last I heard Boston has one of the worst infrastructures in the country, it also boasts one of the oldest infrastructures in the US.
    People are quick to confuse and despise confidence as arrogance but that is common amongst those who have never accomplished anything in their lives and who have always played it safe not willing to risk failure.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistaken1 View Post
    To bad people do not know how to shut off the gas to their homes. That may have saved some of them.
    It's as simple as this, when I had a gas house anyway. We had a regular valve, not a nut as in this illustration
    Attached Images
    From a fireball we came, crossed sea and mountain
    We were drinking beauty with our eyes
    We were given all to make our own, let us be left alone

    III

  21. #61
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    We had a near miss and evac of the Bill Middleon VA Center here in Madison earlier today, another gasline "failure", kind of like ersatz contractor sandhogs in neon vests using a backhoe rupturing lines in Sun Prairie during a Verizon phone line dig. Accidents happen. Accidents happening on this scale, like San Bruno Cali, are of another caliber altogether. Boston is under siege.

    Desert Vet, you know exactly what you are talking about re:"bad actors". And you may be "just kidding" but I am as serious as a crockpot full of shrapnel.

  22. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macgyver View Post
    Yep that valve will probably hold several hundred pounds back. They may be rated to 150 or something like that.
    Which brings up another question (maybe simplistic on my part)---

    What "is" the normal pressure in a gas supply line?

    I don't mean the one "in" the house---I already read that was .4 psi.

    I mean in the line COMING TO the house---BEFORE it gets to the regulator to down-step it.

    I must admit I've become SO disillusioned by the UTTER STUPIDITY of our dumbed-down, public-skool edumacated brainwashed-in-liberal-though-but-can't-add-2-and-2 kids today, that I wonder how long before these young kids taking over manage to REALLY mess things up--)


    so I wonder if some young newly-acquired (college-educated, which don't mean jack-cowpies now) employee at some gas distribution point in Boston, who KNEW the line was SUPPOSED to have, say, 1.6 psi...


    set it for 16...


    (who needs those darn pesky decimal points, anyway?)
    Be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled…Let no man deceive you by any means…..
    they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved….for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie….
    Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


  23. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Warm Wisconsin View Post
    Exactly....how could the service gotten to those pressures? There are high pressure cut off devices that close spring return valves on service lines.
    Would muse that it's not high gas pressures, but maybe something else.

    What if someone put a bunch of LP, (liquid Petroleum) into a natural gas line? I've seen it happen, where people install natural gas appliances and try to burn LP, it dont work and over fires, often sueting things up, and or burning out/tripping thermalcouples/limit switches. Never seen it burn down building but I've never seen it happen in a whole gas line system.

    So IDK.

    Maybe those new instant gas water heaters...

  24. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firedave View Post
    Doc1 You have no idea what your talking about.
    WTH is this drive by bitching about?

    What is incorrect in what Doc1 said?
    “The quieter you become, the more you can hear.”
    ― Ram Dass

  25. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by onetimer View Post
    WTH is this drive by bitching about?

    What is incorrect in what Doc1 said?
    Agree, just went back.... every thing Doc said is right.

    WTH, is right.

  26. #66
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    Here is link to our little wake up call this morning to our VA. Hyper vigilance and they got a handle on it. One if by land Boston, Brunswick has two lanterns up tonight, as its coming by sea.

    https://www.channel3000.com/news/gas...m_medium=email

  27. #67
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    Just a little side note. We have black hawks flying like mad around here. I wonder if they are worried about terrorism?

  28. #68
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    I doubt that anyone even loses their job over this.

  29. #69
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    They are now saying that everyone in South Lawrence whether you have gas or not has to evacuate.

  30. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Millwright View Post
    They should have the system shut down and excess pressure bled off by now.

    Did someone sabotage the valves AND regulators?
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    There are regulators in the Distribution lines, high pressure shut in on the PLC systems, emergency shut off valves in the lines, among numerous other safety systems. I call bullshit.
    I had similar thoughts.

    Are various large distribution (not individual residential or commercial) valves, pressure reduction devices and such still the manually adjusted types or are they now digitally (automatically, remotely) computer controlled and monitored?

    If computer controlled... especially remotely looks like prime territory for nefarious hacking.

  31. #71
    In the industry we use the Swiss cheese analogy when training on the safety systems. Each component of the redundant safety systems is like a slice of of swiss cheese. Every single slice has to line up the holes perfectly (fail at the same time) for an incident to occur. This was no accident.....why would anyone lose their job?

  32. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    In the industry we use the Swiss cheese analogy when training on the safety systems. Each component of the redundant safety systems is like a slice of of swiss cheese. Every single slice has to line up the holes perfectly (fail at the same time) for an incident to occur. This was no accident.....why would anyone lose their job?
    Disgruntled employee.....union sheningans....anybody's guess...
    From a fireball we came, crossed sea and mountain
    We were drinking beauty with our eyes
    We were given all to make our own, let us be left alone

    III

  33. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by vestige View Post
    I had similar thoughts.

    Are various large distribution (not individual residential or commercial) valves, pressure reduction devices and such still the manually adjusted types or are they now digitally (automatically, remotely) computer controlled and monitored?

    If computer controlled... especially remotely looks like prime territory for nefarious hacking.
    Most systems will utilize a remote control center on a scada network controlling the trunk lines. Smaller downstream lines will be manual regulators.

  34. #74
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    My first thought had been shutting down the high pressure lines until all the gas was used up and the pilots went out, then turn it back on and let the appliances leak the gas into the house without the pilots igniting it in normal operation, until a light switch or such sets it off. Does not seem likely now, with nobody complaining about loss of gas, and pilot safeties.
    This will be interesting.
    "...Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the cats of war..."
    Razor sharpening while you wait - Occam
    If it works, it doesn't have enough features. - Windows 10 design philosophy.
    Forget the beer, I'm just here for the doom!
    Humans, just a tool for amino acids to make Swiss watches.

  35. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by West View Post
    Agree, just went back.... every thing Doc said is right.

    WTH, is right.

    Thank you, West. I don't just pull this stuff out of my butt. Everything I posted was from my own limited experience with household gas systems, my more substantial experience with diving gas and regulation systems and then I verified it all at the American Gas Association website.

    Best regards
    Doc

  36. #76
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    This is just up the road from me. What a mess. The highway (495) is in gridlock. People here who work in Boston have been stuck in traffic for over 3 hours. They've shut the off ramps down so there's no escape.

    Lawrence is a poor community with a lot of immigrants, drugs and crime. I can't imagine being there tonight - it will be so dangerous without even considering the gas problem.

    Lawrence Hospital has reported 6 patients with 2 in critical condition. Holy Family in Methuen is also taking patients but haven't given their counts yet.

    No school tomorrow in Andover, North Andover, and Lawrence. They are opening evacuation centers in the area and busing people there. Some of the fires were in mutiple family buildings.

    Every one south of the Merrimack River in Lawrence is being evacuated whether they have have gas or not. They are telling people to get north of the river immediately.

    I've seen several emergency vehicles from quite a ways away going through town on their way to Lawrence.

    The Governor is giving a press conference in Lawrence now. He doesn't know when people will get their power back or when they can come home.

    I'm afraid this isn't over yet.
    Happy is the Nation whose God is the Lord. -Psalm 33:12

  37. #77
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    STUPID QUESTION TIME....

    OK, here's a dumb thought. Is it possible for Propane and Natural Gas lines to cross-connect?

    When we switched over from a Propane tank to a Natural Gas line they had to enlarge the fuel nozzles on all our gas appliances.

    If you're set up for Natural Gas and instead got Propane pumped through your gas lines you'd probably get a huge gas flair up at the pilot lights and burners.

    Not sure if it's even possible to introduce propane into natural gas lines. Just a thought.
    We have done so much, with so little, for so long....We can now do anything, with nothing, forever.

  38. #78
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    Last paragraph of this Fox News article:

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/09/13...cials-say.html

    “The Columbia Gas company announced earlier Thursday that it would be upgrading gas lines in neighborhoods across the state, including the area where the explosions happened. It was not clear whether work was happening there Thursday, and a spokeswoman did not immediately comment.”

    Maybe it’s just a construction screw up of some sort, still very strange if you ask me

  39. #79
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    I know it sounds weird but I keep thinking it's two days past 9/11.
    Tin foil hat time I guess.
    When you care to send the very best, send an Army Ranger!

  40. #80
    No to shadowman's question. Methane is pulled out of the stream at the cryogenic plants way up the lines. Ngl liquids are nowhere near the methane distribution system ever again. Usually the ngl is taken by an entirely different company at the plant tailgate. Ngl would damage the gas compressors and be dealt with long before getting into a utility distribution system.

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