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INTL Irish Catholic Hospitals Will Be Required to Perform Abortions
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  1. #1
    Join Date
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    8 Irish Catholic Hospitals Will Be Required to Perform Abortions

    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/briann...tions-n2490464

    Irish Catholic Hospitals Will Be Required to Perform Abortions

    Brianna Heldt
    Posted: Jun 13, 2018 7:00 PM

    Last month, Ireland voted to repeal a ban on abortions.

    Now, their prime minister has announced that Catholic hospitals will be required to perform them.

    In a recent session with Irish parliament, Ireland prime minister Leo Varadkar said that although doctors, nurses, and midwives may opt out of the procedure based on conscience grounds, entire institutions (like hospitals) may not.

    "It will not, however, be possible for publicly-funded hospitals,” Varadkar stated, “no matter who their patron or owner is, to opt out of providing these necessary services which will be legal in this state once this legislation is passed by the Dáil and Seanad (senate)."

    Ever since Ireland’s landslide vote in favor of legalizing abortion, parliament has been working to draft legislation that will put the new laws into effect. In short, any woman will soon be able to get an abortion up to the point of 12 weeks gestation, and in extreme cases, through the 24th week of pregnancy. This is said to be modeled after 2013’s Protection of Life Act, which both allowed women to obtain abortions in “extreme medical circumstances”, and medical personnel to opt out of performing the procedure if they so desired.

    The president of the National Association of General Practitioners in Ireland, who self-identifies as pro-choice, recently stated that just 20% of GPs are presently willing to provide abortions. Furthermore, and perhaps more importantly, 85% of general practitioners believe that abortion is not to be considered part of “routine general practice.”

    Translation: an overwhelming majority of Irish doctors don’t believe that aborting babies is essential to the practice of medicine.

    Which is why the NAGP, in contrast to Prime Minister Varadkar, is arguing for an “opt-in” versus “opt-out” system for doctors.

    Catholic hospitals, however, seem to be out of luck--and will be expected to provide abortion services in keeping with the law of the land, because unlike individual doctors with conscience rights, they are considered institutions.

    Irish Catholics have been fighting this battle for some time.

    Back in 2013, and in reference to the passage of the aforementioned Protection of Life Act, Cardinal Sean Brady, Archbishop of Armagh, warned that hospitals with a Catholic ethos may indeed decide to sue the government over the section of the bill requiring them to offer abortions in extreme medical circumstances. Calling the legislation “totally unacceptable”, “potentially menacing”, and a “denial of fundamental religious freedoms”, Cardinal Brady spoke of the “serious implications for the existing legal and constitutional arrangements that respect the legitimate autonomy and religious ethos of faith-based institutions.”

    As of 2017, three hospitals in Ireland were reportedly owned by the Catholic religious order Sisters of Mercy. In a document released by the order last year, it was stated that “In our healthcare facilities any such procedures in which we do not respect the life and physical integrity of each human being from conception onwards violate the mission of safeguarding life and health.” The document goes on to read that “the morning-after pill, IVF, vasectomies, sterilisation of women and abortion are all forbidden.”

    Will Leo Varadkar’s radical new pro-abortion policies be the death knell for Catholic hospitals in Ireland? At this point, it’s looking like a very real possibility. With no legal provision for institutions to opt out, Catholics may decide to opt out of the institutions altogether.

    The Catholic Church remains the largest non-government provider of healthcare services in the world.
    Sapere aude

  2. #2
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    The UK does not have freedom of religion as does America and it shows....

    Texican....

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texican View Post
    The UK does not have freedom of religion as does America and it shows....

    Texican....
    The Republic of Ireland isn't part of the UK, its a Constitutional Republic like the US, Freedom of Religion is protected by our Constitution just like your Constitution on which ours is based, unfortunately our Constitution and our Religion means squat in this new progressive world just like in the US.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texican View Post
    The UK does not have freedom of religion as does America and it shows....

    Texican....

    Ireland is not part of the UK:


    Is Ireland in the United Kingdom?

    The United Kingdom (UK) comprises four countries: England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Within the United Kingdom, a unitary sovereign state, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales have gained a degree of autonomy through the process of devolution.
    So when's the Revolution? God or Money? Choose.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Texican View Post
    The UK does not have freedom of religion as does America and it shows....

    Texican....
    1. We are not the UK...

    2. Again, this is a bit more complicated than it looks - you see in Ireland for historical reasons NEARLY EVERY hospital is a "Catholic" Hospital, just like nearly every PUBLIC school is technically a Catholic School.

    This includes PUBLIC Hospitals which is what the decision refers to, PRIVATE Catholic hospitals -like the ones you are thinking of in the US probably will be exempted.

    The PUBLIC ones get GOVERNMENT FUNDING to run what is the Public Health system (which is not universal here as it is the UK, but does provide basic care for anyone who needs it).

    I'm sure if the so-called "Catholic" hospitals would like to the "Good old Days" when they were established and have their Charities and the Vatican PAY for ALL THEIR CARE and UPKEEP with NO TAXPAYER funding; then they can make their own rules again.


    I am not an abortion fan (though I think it should be a medical decision) but what the government is basically saying is that Public Hospitals, even those "claimed" by the Catholic Church will provide all legal and public medical procedures but individual doctors, nurses, and midwives (for example Nuns who are nurses) do not have to perform certain procedures.

    For several decades now a number of governments and the general public have been largely in favor of making the PUBLIC Schools and the PUBLIC hospitals into secular institutions with PRIVATE (what they call FEE PAYING schools and PRIVATE Hospitals allowed to continue as religious institutions as they wish).
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Marthanoir View Post
    The Republic of Ireland isn't part of the UK, its a Constitutional Republic like the US, Freedom of Religion is protected by our Constitution just like your Constitution on which ours is based, unfortunately our Constitution and our Religion means squat in this new progressive world just like in the US.
    Unfortunately (in my opinion) the one thing that was not copied from the US Constitution was the freedom from a State Religion; the result (combined with extreme poverty) was the Catholic Church running the entire public school system (with a few Church of Ireland Protestant ones) and most of the "public" hospital system.

    Now the painful task of untangling that mess (and the resulting historical death and abuse cases in orphanages, Mother and Baby Homes, adoption agencies, schools etc) is on-going and painful.

    It looks like the really private Catholic hospitals won't have to do this like THE MATER PRIVATE as opposed to THE MATER PUBLIC (one is for those paying themselves or with insurance the other is a public taxpayer-supported institution) with a Catholic "ethos" won't have to provide them although I'm not totally clear on that one.

    But those are what most people in the US think of when they think of a Catholic Hospital, not the old-fashioned public hospitals that used to exist in the US but are almost gone now; usually run by "The County" or "They City" etc.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by mzkitty View Post
    Ireland is not part of the UK:


    Is Ireland in the United Kingdom?

    The United Kingdom (UK) comprises four countries: England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Within the United Kingdom, a unitary sovereign state, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales have gained a degree of autonomy through the process of devolution.
    Northern Ireland is still part of the UK, they are under the NHS (UK National Health Service) their hospitals public and secular; they do have private religious hospitals in the UK just as they do in the US - like the Private Hospitals in the Irish Republic they are for those who pay upfront or more often have "top up" health insurance.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  8. #8
    If they have any backbone, they'd shut down and let the people live with the death choice.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by naturallysweet View Post
    If they have any backbone, they'd shut down and let the people live with the death choice.
    They can't because they are in reality PUBLIC TAXPAYER SUPPORTED Hospitals, they simply were founded by the Catholic Church and they "run" the executive boards.

    Now if they had any backbone they would either:

    1. Fully sign the hospitals over to the government and wash their hands of them - (no property compensation because millions are still owed morally or legally to abuse survivors)

    2. Fully take over the hospitals again, with the Catholic Church PAYING FOR EVERYTHING as they did back when they were "charity missions" - they would also be responsible for providing public care at low or no cost unless they reimbursed the taxpayer for all the money they have taken in over the last several decades.

    This isn't about abortion this is about "who benefits" and "follow the money," abortion just makes great headlines and turns it into a hot button and emotional topic.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  10. #10
    "... Fully take over the hospitals again, with the Catholic Church PAYING FOR EVERYTHING as they did back when they were "charity missions" - they would also be responsible for providing public care at low or no cost unless they reimbursed the taxpayer for all the money they have taken in over the last several decades.
    ..."


    Huh! They took that public money and didn't provide a service ?

    Gee
    "The misfortune of many is the consolation of fools" Ancient proverb

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    32,457
    Voters Just removed their Blessings
    I see Biblical reign of destruction headed to Ireland similar to the situations ( weather crime politics finances) that the USA has been experiencing since 1973 Roe v Wade

    Gird up

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Troke View Post
    "... Fully take over the hospitals again, with the Catholic Church PAYING FOR EVERYTHING as they did back when they were "charity missions" - they would also be responsible for providing public care at low or no cost unless they reimbursed the taxpayer for all the money they have taken in over the last several decades.
    ..."


    Huh! They took that public money and didn't provide a service ?

    Gee
    Yes they provided a service but they used public money to do it - perhaps an I was a bit harsh, perhaps they shouldn't have to pay anything back (except in cases like the care hospitals where patients were abused) but I am just tired of the Irish situation being "spun" in ways to make it look like it is black and white; which is what the Catholic Church wants and what it really is which are issue of power, money, and control.

    By the way, I am not anti-Catholic, but the Chruch as an Institutional Body has really shown its true colors in Ireland when it comes to dealing with the legacy of having been pretty much the only provider of public schools, institutions, and hospitals for generations; happy to take the tax-payer money as the system started to change, but unwilling to either accept responsibility for its own mistakes or to realize that if you take public money you have to accept secular laws.

    That includes providing a non-Catholic education (or not forcing religion classes) on PUBLIC school children in the 90 percent of public schools they still technically own but the tax-payer pays for and it includes obeying the laws of Ireland when it comes to what treatments it will provide in PUBLIC hospitals even if their names are still officially on the control board.

    That or sign over the control to the State, which for the most part is paying for it anyway.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by NC Susan View Post
    Voters Just removed their Blessings
    I see Biblical reign of destruction headed to Ireland similar to the situations ( weather crime politics finances) that the USA has been experiencing since 1973 Roe v Wade

    Gird up
    Voters voted to get rid of a terrible constituted law that sentenced doctors to watch married women bleed to death or die of sepsis when they were miscarrying but the baby still had a heartbeat.

    The government has chosen to take that as a mandate to propose a bill to allow abortion up until the 12 weeks after a 72 hour reflection period; but in theory no doctor, nurse or midwife will be required to perform one that isn't a medical emergency.

    A lot of people were interviewed saying "I don't really like abortion but the way the law is written it is killing women and tying the hands of doctors who could go to jail if they try to use best medical practice to save them."

    This was spun as a vote on abortion, but as I said in the other thread, NO ONE went into a polling booth and voted "yes I want abortion" or "no I don't want to have abortion."

    Yes that was the direct effect but it didn't have to be, again everyone both the "pro-choice" crowd and the Catholic Church "crowd" are spinning this thing all over the place the way they want it - the rest of the world, needing simple news headlines like "Ireland joins the modern world" (yes, we don't like women dying in their own blood" or "Catholic Hospitals to be forced to perform abortions" (well only if they are really public hospitals supported by the taxpayers, private Catholic hospitals or Protestant ones are under different regulations).

    Spin, Spin, Spin, Spin....
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

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