Check out the TB2K CHATROOM, open 24/7               Configuring Your Preferences for OPTIMAL Viewing
  To access our Email server, CLICK HERE

  If you are unfamiliar with the Guidelines for Posting on TB2K please read them.      ** LINKS PAGE **



*** Help Support TB2K ***
via mail, at TB2K Fund, P.O. Box 24, Coupland, TX, 78615
or


FARM 5 types of apples, once thought extinct, are rediscovered
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 41
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    OK
    Posts
    29,235

    5 types of apples, once thought extinct, are rediscovered

    LEWISTON, Idaho (AP) — Five types of apples, once thought to be extinct, have been rediscovered in northern Idaho and eastern Washington.

    The Lewiston Tribune newspaper reported Monday that “apple detective” David Benscoter located the trees growing near a butte in the rolling hills of the vast Palouse agricultural area.

    Benscoter worked with apple experts at the Temperate Orchard Conservancy in Oregon and Fedco Seeds in Maine to positively identify the apple types. They were compared to written descriptions from old books and antique watercolor paintings.

    The newly rediscovered apples include the Shackleford, Saxon Priest, Kittageskee, Ewalt and McAffee varietals. An estimated 17,000 named apple varieties are thought to have originated in North America, but Benscoter says only about 4,000 still exist today.

    “I just love the history of these old apples and what they meant to the first homesteaders that arrived here in eastern Washington and northern Idaho,” Benscoter said. “The apple was the most important fruit you could have, and it could be used in so many ways.”

    He first became interested in hunting down the almost-gone and nearly forgotten fruit when he helped a neighbor with chores on her property. He found an old apple tree and began to search the internet to try to figure out what variety it bore.

    By checking old county fair records in Whitman County, Washington, he discovered several apple types that were listed as extinct.

    Since that time, he has discovered more than 20 varieties of apples that were once considered lost. He’s hoping area residents will let him know if they have old apple trees in neglected orchards or growing in back fields that he can examine.

    “Those apples have been forgotten about in the back of someone’s field or an old orchard nobody has taken care of in a hundred years,” Benscoter said. “I’m hopeful, and obviously the search has been somewhat successful, and so I think there are still many apples out there that can be found.”

    Apples have as many 50 different identifiers, including stem length, shape, size, color and structure.

    Benscoter thinks he’s found an additional seven apples in the region that were also thought to be extinct or extremely rare, but they have yet to be confirmed.

    Those include the Autumn Gray, Surprise No. 1, Flushing Spitzenburg, Republican Pippin, Bogdanoff Glass, Flory and Early Colton.

    http://www.breitbart.com/news/5-type...-rediscovered/
    Proud Infidel...............and Cracker

    Member: Nowski Brigade

    Deplorable


  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    In CLE again
    Posts
    53,429
    What they MEANT to the settlers was APPLE JACK!!!

    Ask ANYONE who has investigated John Chapman and HIS story.....
    RULE 1:
    THEY want you DEAD.


    Athens, Tenn.
    Remember WHY?

    Word to the wise:

    "All skill is in vain when an Angel pees in the touch-hole of your musket!"

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Happy on the mountain
    Posts
    63,431
    Take a look here at our local heirloom apple farm- http://bighorsecreekfarm.com/

    Their varieties list - http://bighorsecreekfarm.com/master-variety-list/
    The wonder of our time isn’t how angry we are at politics and politicians; it’s how little we’ve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  4. #4
    It's really amazing the variety of Apple types that appear out of wild seedling trees! We have probably at least a couple hundred on our farm, in the hedgerows and diversion ditches, and one of my prime goals for this fall is to have an "Apple tasting" day, to identify the "keepers " and mark the others (many of which are intertwined and crowding dome trees that produce truly delicious apples) for removal.

    A couple years ago, we had a great crop... the trees were loaded. So we went back with the pickup truck loaded with baskets, tubs and crates and picked about 30 bushels. I had an Amish neighbor press them into cider, which we split with our closest neighbor, in return for one of their sons helping with the picking and hauling. We each ended up with about 35 gallons of cider!

    I made about 5 gallons each of hard cider and plain apple wine, another 5 gallons of a spiced apple wine (cinnamon and ginger... boy, was that stuff a hit!), and 5 gallons of vinegar. I canned the rest in 2 quart jars for our winter juice. Total cost was our time and 35 cents a gallon to get the cider pressed!

    We discovered several trees that, despite no care at all, we're producing nice sized apples with a wonderful crisp, sharp texture, and a complex, but sweet flavor. To top it off, a couple produce striped fruit... flames of red on a yellow background. Other trees weren't good eating apples... just too tart, although full flavored, but they were important additions yo the cider and wine, which otherwise would have been thin and insipid.

    But one tree was really interesting... yellow apples that looked much like the Yellow Transparent variety....sugar sweet,.. but with absolutely NO apple flavor at all! Weirdest Apple I've ever tasted! We threw in half a bushel or so for the sugar content, but aside from that, they'd be useless. I guess if times got really rough, you could use them mixed with a good flavorful variety to make a pie without added sugar, and you might even be able to cook down a usable syrup from their juice, yo use as a sugar substitute.

    Of course, there are also dozens of trees that just produce small, flavorless fruit... the deer eat them, but I want to cut them so the good trees have more room, and then I want to try to prune the good trees some so they produce larger fruit, and are easier to pick.

    None of these are named varieties, although they are likely seedlings from some good varieties, as there are the remnants of an ancient orchard across the street from our farm.

    Summerthyme

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    13,588
    I absolutely love David Benscoter's work reviving heirloom apples!

    Very familiar with his work and I have been fascinated with apple trees since I was a kid.

    Was thinking of contacting him about where some apple trees that may be considered 'extinct', here in western Wa. in the Bellevue area, primarily the Chism park area as my parents bought 1+ acres of the old Chism property and I know where the apple trees still are.

    Also the ancient apple trees in North Bend, Wa. too.

    There is one apple tree just east of North Bend, that I watch every year and it has apples on it even now that don't look rotted. It is along what was the original corduroy rdoad which was the old wagon rd. (with cedar slats to whole way) before the Sunset Hwy. was created and is now I-90.

    And I've wanted to let him know where it is and some other heirloom trees that are slated to be cut down for a proposed housing development off of exit 32 on I-90 just east, outside of town.

    I don't want those to be lost, at least he can get cuttings but we also don't want that development that is where the mule pasture is. V

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    PRNJ
    Posts
    1,344
    I have a friend that has an unidentified apple on there property. I know they were working with someone to id it. I requested a cutting.
    Very old tree found on some old neglected property.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    13,588
    Quote Originally Posted by Macgyver View Post
    I have a friend that has an unidentified apple on there property. I know they were working with someone to id it. I requested a cutting.
    Very old tree found on some old neglected property.
    Being that the apple is a member of the rose family, and I've been seeing lately how people are taking cut roses and making starts by sticking them in a potato, I'm wondering if this method would work for an apple cutting?

    I have a feeling it would work. V

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    in the bunker
    Posts
    1,268
    Something positive and nice to read.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    35,991
    Grimes Golden and Winesap are good ones to have and both are good in hand eating, the Winesap if allowed to stay on the tree until late fall its sugar and sweet taste go's up, you want to make cider get some Winesap's.
    The Grimes Golden will ripen late summer around August. Lodi's are not an old apple but its one of a few that can be found that will ripen early.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    35,991
    Quote Originally Posted by vessie View Post
    I absolutely love David Benscoter's work reviving heirloom apples!

    Very familiar with his work and I have been fascinated with apple trees since I was a kid.

    Was thinking of contacting him about where some apple trees that may be considered 'extinct', here in western Wa. in the Bellevue area, primarily the Chism park area as my parents bought 1+ acres of the old Chism property and I know where the apple trees still are.

    Also the ancient apple trees in North Bend, Wa. too.

    There is one apple tree just east of North Bend, that I watch every year and it has apples on it even now that don't look rotted. It is along what was the original corduroy rdoad which was the old wagon rd. (with cedar slats to whole way) before the Sunset Hwy. was created and is now I-90.

    And I've wanted to let him know where it is and some other heirloom trees that are slated to be cut down for a proposed housing development off of exit 32 on I-90 just east, outside of town.

    I don't want those to be lost, at least he can get cuttings but we also don't want that development that is where the mule pasture is. V



    Getting some of the roots to plant on your property and see if they take, closely for young tree sprouts-saplings coming up out of the ground around the older trees and you want that as a root stock and it may not grow what you see in the orchard, but you take buds from a tree and graft that to the root stock and once it takes you can snip the rest leaving the bud to take over. there is more to this and its common practice in the orchard biz.

  11. #11
    I'll bet that "sugar apple" would have been a huge hit on the frontier as I gather the other use for apples (besides cider) was as the primary source of sugar when people couldn't afford to buy sugar (or even had access to it) and honey was scarce (and required beehives or harvesting wild hives).

    Despite it seeming "useless" today, that is one I might think of trying to keep going or spreading around, but as a "Sugar Apple" not as an eating or cooking apple.

    I heard a show on NPR years ago about someone going to the area of the world where Apples originated (can't recall exactly Eastern Europe or Western Asia) and saw the most amazing varieties of fruit; some that were long and yellow like bananas and others that tasted like strawberries.

    Irish Seed Savers is doing the same thing in Ireland as the gentlemen in Idaho; they will send people out to your old orchard or lone tree, looking for lost varieties, take cuttings and get them going again. We have some heirloom trees like "Cat's Heads" and others out back.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Where hiking boots go to die
    Posts
    11,470
    Please don't put off getting in contact with the conservationists.

    There was an article a while back about a conservationist who had finally found an old man who knew the location of a lone apple tree of a variety that had been cultivated in Jefferson's Monticello orchards. It was said to taste like champagne. The old man said he would take him to the location the next day but had a stroke that night and the location was lost.
    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    South Central Kentucky
    Posts
    1,112
    I have a "Paducah" apple tree. I have searched for another one to replace it but never could find one. It was early, disease resistant and produced abundantly. The taste was less than great but suitable for us.
    AKA bobinky, just an old coot livin' on a hillside in Kentucky.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Cow Hampshire
    Posts
    17,285
    Eric Sloane's semi-picture/story "A Reverence for Wood" starts with a colonial apple tree taken down, and follows that tree (which grows back from its roots) through the generations and two subsequent "taking downs."

    http://store.doverpublications.com/0486433943.html

    This refreshing and delightfully written book underscores the important role that wood has played in the development of American life and culture. Charmingly illustrated with author Eric Sloane's own sketches, the text illuminates with rare insight the enormously varied and useful qualities of wood.
    Covering such topics as the aesthetics of wood, wooden implements, and carpentry, Sloane remarks expansively and with affection on the resourcefulness of early Americans in their use of this precious commodity. From cradle to coffin, the pioneer was surrounded by wood. It was used to make tools, fence the land, and build barns. People sat at wooden tables on wooden chairs and ate from wooden dishes. Charcoal, one of the many by-products of wood, was used to preserve meat, remove offensive odors, and produce ink. The bark of various trees was processed to make medicine.
    An entertaining, factual, and historically accurate book, A Reverence for Wood will delight woodcrafters and lovers of Americana. It is "one of Eric Sloane's best books." — Library Journal
    And even Adam & Eve liked the apples!

    One of the few subjects on which I and the Hillary supporter up the street agree on. (OBTW her Hillary posters are now gone.)

    Dobbin
    I hinnire propter hoc ecce ego

  15. #15
    Summerthyme.... possibly that sugary apple was used to make pectin? Something is jumping up & down in my memory that I read once upon a time... that it's possible to make your own. That would've been a necessary substance for preserving jams and jellies way back when.

  16. #16
    I don't think so... pectin apples are generally the small, very tart, crab apple types. We have those, too... And will make sure to preserve a couple, although unless it gets to the point I can't get Pomona pectin, they'll end up feeding the deer.

    The "sugar apple" will also stay, because of its potential utility in, um... Interesting times. But it also is just a useful addition to juice for cider or wine... you just wouldn't want it as the sole component, or as an eating Apple.

    Speaking of which... has anyone here seen or tried the "Cotton Candy" grape variety? Our daughter had them at a birthday get together.. they're huge, pale green grapes that look wonderful. And then you bite into them... And they are the exact equivalent of that "sugar apple"! Absolutely NO grape flavor, just sickeningly sugar sweet. Yuck!

    She said the kids loved them... I countered that she might as well sit them down to a bowl of powdered fructose and hand them a spoon! Are American tastes THAT perverted these days?!

    Summerthyme

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    8,517
    Quote Originally Posted by summerthyme View Post
    Are American tastes THAT perverted these days?! Summerthyme
    Yes! I've seen people add additional salt to their bacon! I suspect it was just a bad habit. Some people out here add salt to *everything* on their plate.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    "outside the box"
    Posts
    28,910
    Quote Originally Posted by Publius View Post
    Grimes Golden and Winesap are good ones to have and both are good in hand eating, the Winesap if allowed to stay on the tree until late fall its sugar and sweet taste go's up, you want to make cider get some Winesap's.
    The Grimes Golden will ripen late summer around August. Lodi's are not an old apple but its one of a few that can be found that will ripen early.
    We have both the Golden and Winesap here; I enjoy them both

    Quince is the best natural source of pectin.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    N. Minnesota
    Posts
    11,864
    Apple genetics is a fascinating area of study. The apple is such an amazingly useful and hardy fruit, with such a widespread growing range. Apples also mutate/crossbreed incredibly easily - so new varieties are tossed into the mix naturally every season. One of the most self-sustaining things you can do on your property is establish an apple orchard. Oh, yes - and in my search for new uses for abundant crops of apples and apple juice, I have made apple syrup (process is like making maple syrup).. Have never cooked it down to sugar yet, but holy cats is the syrup good on pancakes!

    There is an old orchard at the long retired Minnesota Ag Experiment Station property nearby. A group of University students made a special project of identifying the surviving varieties through DNA testing, and won a grant/award to fence and protect, then rehab the remaining trees and start grafting for propagation of a new orchard of these old, locally hardy varieties.

    The "genesis" story of the apple is incredible. I don't recall all of the details, but apparently there is a woodland in Eastern Europe/Russia which is supposedly the birthplace of apple varieties -

    OK - here, I found the article:
    https://news.nationalgeographic.com/...modern-apples/

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Dozdoats View Post
    Take a look here at our local heirloom apple farm- http://bighorsecreekfarm.com/

    Their varieties list - http://bighorsecreekfarm.com/master-variety-list/
    Thanks DD,great antique apple list.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    13,588
    Quote Originally Posted by Melodi View Post
    I'll bet that "sugar apple" would have been a huge hit on the frontier as I gather the other use for apples (besides cider) was as the primary source of sugar when people couldn't afford to buy sugar (or even had access to it) and honey was scarce (and required beehives or harvesting wild hives).

    Despite it seeming "useless" today, that is one I might think of trying to keep going or spreading around, but as a "Sugar Apple" not as an eating or cooking apple.

    I heard a show on NPR years ago about someone going to the area of the world where Apples originated (can't recall exactly Eastern Europe or Western Asia) and saw the most amazing varieties of fruit; some that were long and yellow like bananas and others that tasted like strawberries.

    Irish Seed Savers is doing the same thing in Ireland as the gentlemen in Idaho; they will send people out to your old orchard or lone tree, looking for lost varieties, take cuttings and get them going again. We have some heirloom trees like "Cat's Heads" and others out back.

    Here you go Melodi!

    Down at the bottom of the wiki link, is a picture of a "Sugar Bee" apple.

    *Fair Use*

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple

    Wild ancestors
    Main article: Malus sieversii
    The original wild ancestor of Malus pumila was Malus sieversii, found growing wild in the mountains of Central Asia in southern Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and Xinjiang, China.[4][8] Cultivation of the species, most likely beginning on the forested flanks of the Tian Shan mountains, progressed over a long period of time and permitted secondary introgression of genes from other species into the open-pollinated seeds. Significant exchange with Malus sylvestris, the crabapple, resulted in current populations of apples being more related to crabapples than to the more morphologically similar progenitor Malus sieversii. In strains without recent admixture the contribution of the latter predominates.[9][10][11] V

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    13,588
    Quote Originally Posted by Dobbin View Post
    Eric Sloane's semi-picture/story "A Reverence for Wood" starts with a colonial apple tree taken down, and follows that tree (which grows back from its roots) through the generations and two subsequent "taking downs."

    http://store.doverpublications.com/0486433943.html

    And even Adam & Eve liked the apples!

    One of the few subjects on which I and the Hillary supporter up the street agree on. (OBTW her Hillary posters are now gone.)

    Dobbin
    David Benscoter has been known to keep a chainsaw with him and when he found an ancient lone apple tree in eastern Wa., he went over and started sawing old live limbs off because this invigorates and activates new growth to the tree and will start apple production again. V

  23. #23
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Cow Hampshire
    Posts
    17,285
    One of the things that moderns have somehow forgotten is that an apple, when planted as seed - does not grow the same apple which bore the seeds. Nor grow the same tree.

    Thus the 300 year old tree of Eric Sloane's book was biologically the same tree. While the tree was cut down - it was not killed.

    Similarly, the only way to get the same apple is by "cuttings" - meaning propagation through sprigs which have been encouraged to somehow "root."

    Thus every Macintosh apple you buy at the store comes from the same Macintosh genetic material from years before.

    I say won't grow the same apple. Sometimes - very rarely - seed growth grows a tree which perhaps is in some ways "superior" to the parent tree. The Northern Spy apple is among these "discoveries."

    Mostly these seeded offspring grow "crabs" - as in crab-apple - which (usually) never grows as well, as strong, as tasty, or as succulent as the parent. "Pig feed" Owner says.

    It is possible to even have a tree of "mixed fruit" - which involves grafting a sprig or even a branch from another fruit bearing tree ONTO the parent tree. Perhaps not even the same fruit.

    Thus it is possible to have pears on an apple tree - or even apples from the same tree that come to fruition at different times - yunno - one early - one late?

    Owner "works on" his few apple trees in the spring. He has cut down one of the elderly. He likes the apple wood in the fireplace because it doesn't "pop" and spread embers. He doesn't need a fireplace screen for apple wood. "A very quiet and satisfying fire" he says. Of course to him EVERY fire is satisfying - just in different ways.

    Well, maybe not a fire in the barn.

    "NO fire in the barn - EVER."

    Dobbin
    I hinnire propter hoc ecce ego

  24. #24
    Please, please, anyone who has knowledge of very old trees contact someone who can evaluate/save them. Either someone mentioned in this thread or contact Seed Savers Exchange and ask for assistance in finding someone to help you.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Green County, Kentucky
    Posts
    9,868
    Summerthyme, I wonder what you would get if you dried some of that super-sweet apple (or those super-sweet grapes, for that matter)?

    Kathleen
    Behold, these are the mere edges of His ways, and how small a whisper we hear of Him.
    Job 26:14

    wickr ID freeholder45

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Central Indiana
    Posts
    5,917
    There is a mystery apple tree growing in our back yard. It is nearing the end of it's life, it is starting to get hollow from the bottom up and half of it split off last year during a strong storm. I put the chicken pen around it to give the chickens shade and access to the fallen fruit, the extra "fertilizer" has perked it up. It still produces fruit and is a good cross pollinator for the new apple trees I have planted since we moved here, however the rot increases every year. We will either need to cut it down soon or a storm will knock it over sooner or later. The apples are not sweet but they make excellent pie. The apples are equally red and green, not striped but a red blush over the green. they ripen in late September. No one around here knows what kind of apple tree it is and I have no idea how to go about identifying it.
    Terri in Indiana

    "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." - Plato

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    35,991
    Now for anyone interested with saving some apple trees you can go to YouTube and enter into the YouTube Search for "Grafting Apple Trees" and you can do a self study and learn all about how its done and will also find how to properly trim and care for these trees.

    You can also use your browser search engine and enter Grafting Apple Trees or Grafting Fruit Trees.

    Ether way you will learn allot and it will allow you gain the knowledge on how to save some old apple trees.
    Last edited by Publius; 03-06-2018 at 01:20 PM.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Publius View Post
    Now for anyone interested with saving some apple trees you can go to YouTube and enter into the YouTube Search for "Grafting Apple Trees" and you can do a self study and learn all about how its done and will also find how to properly trim and care for these trees.

    You can also use your browser search engine and enter Grafting Apple Trees or Grafting Fruit Trees.

    Ether way you will learn allot and it will allow you gain the knowledge on how to save some old apple trees.
    Try this with youtube.com,it helps to see the process in action.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    northern ontario
    Posts
    4,611
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacajawea View Post
    Summerthyme.... possibly that sugary apple was used to make pectin? Something is jumping up & down in my memory that I read once upon a time... that it's possible to make your own. That would've been a necessary substance for preserving jams and jellies way back when.
    few yrs back I noticed a crabapple tree down the rd. beside the rd

    I waited till it was in apples and I got 5 gal

    boiled them down to make juice, but it was VERY sweet and very pink juice

    I thot I would mix it with shine and make an apple spirit

    WRONG

    when I mixed the booze and the juice.. instant jello

    I was confuzzled

    turns out... it so much pectin

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Hoosier-at-heart
    Posts
    4,591
    Stark Bros Nursery, just celebrated 200th anniv in business. Some interesting heirloom varieties.

    https://www.starkbros.com/products/f...es/apple-trees

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    35,991
    When buying apple trees ask if these are dwarf! If you live in an area thats well populated with deer they will kill the dwarf trees as they can reach most of the tree standing on their hind legs.
    Young trees need to be protected from rabbets and deer and use tree wraps [keep rabbets off] and ring the tree with livestock fencing to keep the deer from reaching and eating the buds, leaves and bark off the tree.

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    A rough neighborhood in Hell.
    Posts
    7,818
    Dobbin, the "Sprigs" are called Scions in grafting, and are usually grafted to stronger, disease and cold-resistant root stock. In northern climes they use a russian rootstock, I forget the name but can live to 30 below! I've grafted a few times with good success.


    Now, those of you who have an AWESOME apple you don't want to lose, you can EASILY raft a small tip of a branch (scion) cut at a 45* angle and plumbers taped (easy to remove & stretchable) wrapped around.

    Go to a crabapple or less-quality tree and find the BRANCH CLOSEST TO THE TRUNK & LOWEST ON THE TRUNK of the same width. If all the lower branches are large follow the lowest ones to a smaller and smaller until you can graft yours on. After a week or two of your aft taking, remove all of the old branch past this point.
    **USUALLY THERE WILL BE ANOMALY BRANCHES, TINY ones sticking out o the trunk tryin to be a branch, these are great to graft to!


    After the first year if graft is doing well, can remove several of the larger limbs above it, each year until only left with the awesome-apple branch, this is why you want it low, so it can branch and become a whole tree. Grafts take best on the teminus ends of branches, so if you have teminus ends low enough, you can o several of them. USE A WEATHER POOF ALUMINUM TAG & TWISTIE to label the graft & date. Possible to do 5-10 grafts the first year, and turn an entire crab apple with great root stock, even an OLD tree into a fruit bearing totally-apple tree in less than 4 years.

    Best NOT to root cuttings because their root stock may be weak.

    FURTHER.. if you have a good CRABAPPLE growing in your area, that is winterin over, obviously, you can cut 10-50 terminus (end) tips off in spring or summer and get them rooted in root solution/ water... once these root and are little 1' trees with 1/4-1/2" trunks, you can ask a local friend or craiglist person for SCIONS from AWESOME APPLES.... then graft the whole thing to your crab-apple root stock( usually $5 at greenhouses EACH!) and have a 50 tree orchard, free.. OR SELL THE LITTLE TREES...

    Grafting is awesome & easy. Lots of good info, and even some pretty cool grafting-cutting tools that makes a perfect forked notch! good luck, and spread "dem apples!"
    If I was born in Kenya, I'd be President by now.

    *My fingers are slysdexic. Damn.*
    They're, there, their. There. I know the difference. My mind is miles and miles of thought ahead of my fingers and my fingers are peons. peons do sh!tty work.:D

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    OK
    Posts
    29,235
    Quote Originally Posted by zeker View Post
    few yrs back I noticed a crabapple tree down the rd. beside the rd

    I waited till it was in apples and I got 5 gal

    boiled them down to make juice, but it was VERY sweet and very pink juice

    I thot I would mix it with shine and make an apple spirit

    WRONG

    when I mixed the booze and the juice.. instant jello

    I was confuzzled

    turns out... it so much pectin
    Apple jello-shots.

    Bonus.
    Proud Infidel...............and Cracker

    Member: Nowski Brigade

    Deplorable


  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by zeker View Post
    few yrs back I noticed a crabapple tree down the rd. beside the rd

    I waited till it was in apples and I got 5 gal

    boiled them down to make juice, but it was VERY sweet and very pink juice

    I thot I would mix it with shine and make an apple spirit

    WRONG

    when I mixed the booze and the juice.. instant jello

    I was confuzzled

    turns out... it so much pectin
    LOL! Sorry! Yeah... that's actually how you test for pectin content in fruits... (they recommend rubbing alcohol, but any high-test spirit would work). I think you could add a "pectic enzyme" (it's used in winemaking to prevent a "pectin haze" in the finished product) to break it down before adding to your shine...

    Summerthyme

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Publius View Post
    When buying apple trees ask if these are dwarf! If you live in an area thats well populated with deer they will kill the dwarf trees as they can reach most of the tree standing on their hind legs.
    Young trees need to be protected from rabbets and deer and use tree wraps [keep rabbets off] and ring the tree with livestock fencing to keep the deer from reaching and eating the buds, leaves and bark off the tree.
    This is very true. However, SEMI-dwarf trees are a nice compromise. And they *aren't* tiny... we keep ours pruned hard so we don't have to be 15 feet up in a ladder to pick the top branches... my goal is to be able to use my apple picker (it has a 5 foot handle) and pick every bit of fruit from the ground, although I often end up on tiptoes and with my arms stretched as far as I can get them... and still end up having to climb up into the tree to reach some of the last (and for some reason, often the largest and best) fruit.

    Full sized trees are the cheapest (and that's what you'll get if you take cuttings off any variety, no matter whether dwarf, semi-dwarf or full sized, unless you graft them onto dwarfing rootstocks). If you're only buying half a dozen trees, (and if you only want apples for a family, that's PLENTY... my Liberty semi-dwarf tree that's about 25 years old routinely produces 5 bushels of nice apples... and that's ONE tree! We have three semi-dwarf trees out front (four, actually, but the Golden Russet was planted too close to a Norway Spruce that grew huge and has shaded it into being spindly and only producing half a bushel of apples every year) and we routinely get 10-15 bushels. The Liberty and the Golden Delicious bear yearly, as does a really nice MacFree I planted up above a diversion ditch a couple hundred yards from the house. A Gala I planted at the same time doesn't do nearly as well... it obviously needs a lot more care than those trees get. I'm hoping to get it sprayed this year (I do prune them at least every other year, but am trying to get them pruned yearly now), because the insects hit it HARD. The Liberty and MacFree are supposed to be "disease resistant", but I've been fascinated to find that they also are very insect resistant.

    Last year, we got probably 4 bushels of almost perfect fruit off the MacFree (and another 2 of "horse apples"), without anything except spring pruning being done. The Gala- about 40 feet away- had maybe half a bushel of fruit, and they were indedible, due to worms and insect damage. (but the single apple I found that had some edible parts had fabulous flavor... I REALLY want to find a way to get that apple to produce some usable fruit!)

    I agree on the grafting- another skill I want to learn and try. I'd like to be able to graft some branches from my good MacFree and Liberty trees onto some of the "junk" trees in the back of the farm... they require so little in the way of spraying, etc to produce good fruit, it would be a good way to increase our production... except we really don't need any more!

    Summerthyme

  36. #36
    Thanks, there's a great chapter on the history of apples in one of Michael Pollan's books about the history of apples, especially in America; on how settlers often bought bags of apple seedlings on their last stop towards the frontier (where ever that was at the time); they knew that most of the tiny trees grown from seeds would mostly make cider apples but everyone hoped to "hit it big" with a "useful" apple that grafts and sales could come from.

    Again, I can see the Sugar Apple being perfect (and it may be an old "Sugar Bee" apple or related to it) as a source of sugar for brewing, eating and fermenting bread dough etc.

    While today most people eat way too much sugar as a matter of course, like carbs; hardworking people and human bodies do need some natural sugars to keep going especially when doing very hard work or during certain periods of their lives.

    Science knows (as does any parent of a tweenage girl) that girls about to hit puberty crave sweets and fat, they need those when eating a natural diet (especially when hunting and gathering or doing basic agriculture) because except at certain times of the year - both sugar and fat tend to be scarce (especially sugar) so craving berries, honey, fruits etc makes perfect sense.

    Just because today those same little girls can buy a lot more candies, cookies and ice cream than they need; doesn't change the fact the craving is natural and for a reason.

    The trees we planted a few years ago are just starting to provide good fruits, we have a number of heirloom ones, but husband knows a lot more about them than I do.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  37. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    A rough neighborhood in Hell.
    Posts
    7,818
    Even full size apple test can be kept under 8' high and pick all fruit from the ground. Check out garden of eden guys apple trees. Judicious pruning every year of runaway "up right" banches, including the trunk, and keeping of horizontal growing ones will make a horizontally spreading tree. Keep it about 20' in diameter and less and you'll do great, older sprawling limbs can be help aloft with limb-to-ground vertical braces, 4x4 or cut log from woods. Of just trim back the over growth and be rewaded with growth closer to the trunk.

    Your old crappily producing trees that have grown out of reach, cut ff the top several highest branches for a couple years and it will regrow lower, & more vigorous. Rule of thumb is to not cut more than 30% at any time, let it grow back and adjust some, but as we saw in the stoy above, even a stump ***IF CUT AT THE RIGHT TIME OF YEAR & GOOD WEATHER CONDITIONS, can grow back completely.... but as we heard, it will be the rootstock, and likely not the apple on the branches, because good edible apples are rarely...like never... on their true roots.

    I HIGHLY encourage any of you with access to old damaged, o even crabapple to try your hand at grafting a few REAL apple scions, which are free from anyone with an apple tree, and see how it goes. Free to try, and might be a long lost closet apple breeder!
    If I was born in Kenya, I'd be President by now.

    *My fingers are slysdexic. Damn.*
    They're, there, their. There. I know the difference. My mind is miles and miles of thought ahead of my fingers and my fingers are peons. peons do sh!tty work.:D

  38. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    35,991
    Quote Originally Posted by summerthyme View Post
    This is very true. However, SEMI-dwarf trees are a nice compromise. And they *aren't* tiny... we keep ours pruned hard so we don't have to be 15 feet up in a ladder to pick the top branches... my goal is to be able to use my apple picker (it has a 5 foot handle) and pick every bit of fruit from the ground, although I often end up on tiptoes and with my arms stretched as far as I can get them... and still end up having to climb up into the tree to reach some of the last (and for some reason, often the largest and best) fruit.

    Full sized trees are the cheapest (and that's what you'll get if you take cuttings off any variety, no matter whether dwarf, semi-dwarf or full sized, unless you graft them onto dwarfing rootstocks). If you're only buying half a dozen trees, (and if you only want apples for a family, that's PLENTY... my Liberty semi-dwarf tree that's about 25 years old routinely produces 5 bushels of nice apples... and that's ONE tree! We have three semi-dwarf trees out front (four, actually, but the Golden Russet was planted too close to a Norway Spruce that grew huge and has shaded it into being spindly and only producing half a bushel of apples every year) and we routinely get 10-15 bushels. The Liberty and the Golden Delicious bear yearly, as does a really nice MacFree I planted up above a diversion ditch a couple hundred yards from the house. A Gala I planted at the same time doesn't do nearly as well... it obviously needs a lot more care than those trees get. I'm hoping to get it sprayed this year (I do prune them at least every other year, but am trying to get them pruned yearly now), because the insects hit it HARD. The Liberty and MacFree are supposed to be "disease resistant", but I've been fascinated to find that they also are very insect resistant.

    Last year, we got probably 4 bushels of almost perfect fruit off the MacFree (and another 2 of "horse apples"), without anything except spring pruning being done. The Gala- about 40 feet away- had maybe half a bushel of fruit, and they were indedible, due to worms and insect damage. (but the single apple I found that had some edible parts had fabulous flavor... I REALLY want to find a way to get that apple to produce some usable fruit!)

    I agree on the grafting- another skill I want to learn and try. I'd like to be able to graft some branches from my good MacFree and Liberty trees onto some of the "junk" trees in the back of the farm... they require so little in the way of spraying, etc to produce good fruit, it would be a good way to increase our production... except we really don't need any more!

    Summerthyme


    Semi-dwarf is not bad to work with and still need protecting until they grow enough to put most of its limbs out of reach of deer.
    Here in West Virginia I live in orchard country and there is an older rootstock they can't at this time remember, but the trees will grow just tall enough to walk under and be 20' foot across and about 16' to 20' max hight and harvesting you will need a 8' Ft steep ladder and you can climb around in the tree for most of the apples.
    We had a few of these and yields were about 5 bushels and some years close to 7 bushels.
    I know of one orchard near by (millar farm) that had a section of some really old Winesap's that are close to 50 foot in hight, the worker who had worked for the millers said they were planted some 100 years ago.

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Green County, Kentucky
    Posts
    9,868
    Summerthyme, how is the flavor on your Liberty and MacFree apples? I've considered getting some of the newer disease-resistant varieties, but have never had the chance to taste-test them. I don't like a lot of the varieties sold in the stores because, while they are usually sweet and juicy, often they don't have much flavor.

    Kathleen
    Behold, these are the mere edges of His ways, and how small a whisper we hear of Him.
    Job 26:14

    wickr ID freeholder45

  40. #40
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    8,517
    Quote Originally Posted by TerriHaute View Post
    The apples are not sweet but they make excellent pie. The apples are equally red and green, not striped but a red blush over the green. they ripen in late September. No one around here knows what kind of apple tree it is and I have no idea how to go about identifying it.
    Northern Spy?

    I had several of these trees in the back yard at one of the houses I was renting: funny-looking apples, red over green, not good for snacking but excellent in pies. I've looked for them in Iowa, but I've only seen the trees in Michigan and N. Ohio, generally half-dead!

    https://www.google.com/search?q=phot...xWQLU80GTGcPM:

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts


NOTICE: Timebomb2000 is an Internet forum for discussion of world events and personal disaster preparation. Membership is by request only. The opinions posted do not necessarily represent those of TB2K Incorporated (the owner of this website), the staff or site host. Responsibility for the content of all posts rests solely with the Member making them. Neither TB2K Inc, the Staff nor the site host shall be liable for any content.

All original member content posted on this forum becomes the property of TB2K Inc. for archival and display purposes on the Timebomb2000 website venue. Said content may be removed or edited at staff discretion. The original authors retain all rights to their material outside of the Timebomb2000.com website venue. Publication of any original material from Timebomb2000.com on other websites or venues without permission from TB2K Inc. or the original author is expressly forbidden.



"Timebomb2000", "TB2K" and "Watching the World Tick Away" are Service Mark℠ TB2K, Inc. All Rights Reserved.