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CRIME Mother, Daughter in Gun Fight with Shotgun-Wielding Robbery Suspect
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by summerthyme View Post
    They were very fortunate the perp allowed them time to retrieve their weapons (it appeared they were stashed in a closed compartment or something behind/underneath the counter). The guy could have all too easily just herded them into a backroom at gunpoint and executed them... it has happened before.

    Two takeaways from the video for me... have your weapon ON your person. And second, carry something powerful enough (and loaded with the right ammo) that even hitting a perp in a non-lethal area will leave a big enough hole that they will be persuaded to leave by the massive blood trail they're losing.

    Given that chaotic scene, they did very well... thankfully, the daughter didn't accidentally shoot her mother when she and the perp were wrestling for the mom's gun.

    Summerthyme
    Soon I am affraid, all of this will be illegal. The powers that be have the "petal to the metal" and going hard to make all guns illegal to own. They know they have little time left.

  2. #42
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    The general rule I heard was: Shoot until it catches fire, or changes shape.

    I heard that before, too. From an old Vulcan gunner. Up to 3000 rounds per minute (he said you could get it to run faster if you tweaked the generator a little) of 20mm cannon rounds will let you make things catch fire or change shape.

    But it's a little much to get in your pocket or hang on your belt -

    https://www.militaryfactory.com/armo...p?armor_id=119

    The wonder of our time isnt how angry we are at politics and politicians; its how little weve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Gray Mare View Post
    To bad this will never become a case study at one of those Woman's Study courses offered by US colleges or universities.

    IMHO Sam Colt, Smith & Wesson and a few other notable gentleman have done much more for feminine equality than all of those man hating, myopic, gullible, hate spewing, slandering, virtue signalling, SJW's combined.

    I have talked to so many suburbanites who fled the city and suburbs for the county. One of their major reasons for relocating is the lack of crime. I have yet to meet one who has ever considered the reason county folk are so noticeably polite is because if pushed to far they might take offense like these ladies and start shooting. It may be some time before any idiot tries to rob an establishment in their hometown. Sounds like they may have preformed a significant public service by protecting law abiding customers and themselves and by getting an alleged career criminal off local streets.

    I'm glad neither of the two ladies or any store employees or law abiding customers were injured in this unfortunate event.
    well stated OGM!!!!
    So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. REV 3:16

    Raging Deplorable - we do NOT forget; we do NOT forgive; we are LEGION

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dosadi View Post
    I kept hoping that young lady would run up, screw that pistol into his ear and empty the rest of the weapon into his tiny nigger brain.

    Watching him kicking and twitching would have been a nice finale.
    I was hoping for that too - having been in ohio since thursday I completely missed this - but it sure MADE MY DAY - one for the good guys . . . er ah good GIRLS I mean
    So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. REV 3:16

    Raging Deplorable - we do NOT forget; we do NOT forgive; we are LEGION

  5. #45
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    The powers that be have the "petal to the metal" and going hard to make all guns illegal to own.

    Looks to me as if they are eager to get an early start on the next civil war ...
    The wonder of our time isnt how angry we are at politics and politicians; its how little weve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Dozdoats View Post
    The powers that be have the "petal to the metal" and going hard to make all guns illegal to own.

    Looks to me as if they are eager to get an early start on the next civil war ...
    This is being discussed on many sites and in many face to face meetings.... right now.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dozdoats View Post
    The powers that be have the "petal to the metal" and going hard to make all guns illegal to own.

    Looks to me as if they are eager to get an early start on the next civil war ...
    Quote Originally Posted by vestige View Post
    This is being discussed on many sites and in many face to face meetings.... right now.
    boys - I hope and pray that you are right - because from where I sit it SEEMS as if there should be a GROWING ROAR all across this country - but I am not hearing it. rather what I AM seeing are people accepting this news media BULLSHIT without question - and IT DISGUSTS ME.

    it is almost as if the MOST HIGH GOD has allowed the blinders, deafness and plain old STUPID to be multiplied in this country and HE has given the power of absolute persuasion without any questions asked or correction demanded of the MSM
    So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. REV 3:16

    Raging Deplorable - we do NOT forget; we do NOT forgive; we are LEGION

  8. #48
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    My GF is a native Okie.

    She has no qualms whatsoever about ventilating someone that desperately needs it.

    Seems to be a common trait amongst the women here.
    Proud Infidel...............and Cracker

    Member: Nowski Brigade

    Deplorable


  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggedyman View Post
    boys - I hope and pray that you are right - because from where I sit it SEEMS as if there should be a GROWING ROAR all across this country - but I am not hearing it. rather what I AM seeing are people accepting this news media BULLSHIT without question - and IT DISGUSTS ME.

    it is almost as if the MOST HIGH GOD has allowed the blinders, deafness and plain old STUPID to be multiplied in this country and HE has given the power of absolute persuasion without any questions asked or correction demanded of the MSM
    Spread the word.

    (it helps)

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by vestige View Post
    Spread the word.

    (it helps)
    TRUST ME - its a DAILY THING - and anything that will sit still long enough hear "hey what do you think about . . ." GETS IT
    So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. REV 3:16

    Raging Deplorable - we do NOT forget; we do NOT forgive; we are LEGION

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dozdoats View Post
    A 44 magnum with 300 gr Buffalo Bore high power ammo would stop him with one shot if you happen to have the combo handy .

    An acquaintance who spent some time on a taxpayer funded vacation in SEAsia once popped a 90 pound VC twice in the torso with a .50 machine gun at fairly close range.

    Didn't stop him on the spot...

    That's what - two 700 grain bullets at 2900 FPS??
    I shot a cow with my .50 BMG and it blew a hole out the back side you could stick your head in . Knocked it right over. Not buy any story about a person geting hit with a .50 BMG twice and still on their feet . .640 grain if it is API

  12. #52
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    Was the cow attacking a Special Forces A camp with a satchel charge in its mouth?
    The wonder of our time isnt how angry we are at politics and politicians; its how little weve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millwright View Post
    My GF is a native Okie.

    She has no qualms whatsoever about ventilating someone that desperately needs it.

    Seems to be a common trait amongst the women here.
    They do have the attitude and equipment to do it, and eager for the chance.
    "Some people are born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple" Barry Switzer

  14. #54
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    I was so worried that they would run outside and shoot him in the back and kept saying to them "don't go outside", but they knew enough not to do that.....and it would be hard with the adrenaline going.....they would have been charged then.

    But the daughter was shooting at the robber and the mother was so close she could have been hit. Better to throw something at him and divert him or knock him out with a gallon of wine.

    Maybe a baseball bat under counter would have helped too to knock the shotgun away from them, while one of them could get their gun??
    True North Strong and Free

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Dozdoats View Post
    Was the cow attacking a Special Forces A camp with a satchel charge in its mouth?
    Yeah, adrenaline is an amazing thing. There definitely have been many cases of both humans and critters doing a real number on someone who just blasted enough large holes in them that they "should have been" Dead Right There.

    But lacking a hit to the brain, spine, or (in most cases) a major heavy bone like hip or pelvis, some things just done know they're dead for anywhere from 20 seconds to even a minute or longer... variables include the fitness of the person/animal, and whether a major artery was blown out by the bullet. Residual oxygen in the brain will fuel the ability to form intent, and the adrenaline will keep muscles functioning longer than you'd believe.

    And that is why hunters of large game, as well as cops (and soldiers) know that you keep shooting until the threat is completely neutralized... which generally means down, not moving and lacking any signs of life.

    A well placed spine shot, especially anywhere above about mid-chest level, will generally put anything down permanently, with no chance of them being able to continue an attack.

    Summerthyme

  16. #56
    Better to throw something at him and divert him or knock him out with a gallon of wine.
    .

    Maybe

    I've known some negros who could drink a gallon of wine and still be going.

    OTOH... maybe drinking that gallon of wine would get his mind off of robbing the store.


  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dozdoats View Post
    A 44 magnum with 300 gr Buffalo Bore high power ammo would stop him with one shot if you happen to have the combo handy .

    An acquaintance who spent some time on a taxpayer funded vacation in SEAsia once popped a 90 pound VC twice in the torso with a .50 machine gun at fairly close range.

    Didn't stop him on the spot...

    That's what - two 700 grain bullets at 2900 FPS??
    IIRC those are 750 gr.
    "Freedom is not something to be secured in any one moment of time. We must struggle to preserve it every day. And freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction."
    -Ronald Reagan

  18. #58
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    More photos at the link...
    ====================

    https://heavy.com/news/2018/02/tina-...robbery-video/

    Tina Ring & Ashley Lee: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know

    2.2K Views 245 Shares 5 Comments
    By Tom Cleary
    Feb 25, 2018 at 4:59pm


    Ashley Lee, left, and her mother, Tina Ring, fought of an armed robber at their Tulsa, Oklahoma, liquor store, shooting him multiple times before he fled.

    A mother and daughter fought off a robber armed with a sawed-off shotgun at their family’s liquor store, shooting him multiple times before he fled, police say. The harrowing incident was caught on the store’s security cameras.

    Tina Ring, 53, and her daughter, Ashley Lee, 30, were working at Forest Acres Liquor in Tulsa, Oklahoma, on February 22 when the incident occurred. Police say the suspect, Tyrone Lee, checked himself in to a local hospital with four gunshot wounds and is expected to survive.

    Both women shot Lee during the incident, police said.

    “I think I’m still in shock,” Tina Ring told the Tulsa World on Saturday. “I don’t think I have really processed everything yet.”

    The suspect is believed to be connected to a string of several armed robberies in the area in recent weeks, police said.

    “We’re not going to be victims,” Justin Christian, Ring’s son, told KTUL-TV.
    Here’s what you need to know:

    1. Video Shows Ring Shooting the Shotgun-Wielding Robber, Who Flees the Store & Then Returns,
    Attacking Ring Until Lee Shoots Him Multiple Times

    Tulsa Police say the robbery occurred at Forest Acres Liquor, 1275 South Memorial Drive, about 6 p.m. Thursday, KTUL-TV reports.

    The entire incident was recorded on the liquor store’s security cameras. You can watch the video above. Ashley Lee can be seen behind the counter of the store as the masked robber, identified by police as Tyrone Lee, 36, no relation to Ashley, walks in holding a sawed-off shotgun. Lee takes cover behind the counter as the suspect points the gun at her. She keeps her hands up and backs away as he takes money from the cash drawer and walks out about 45 seconds after coming into the store.

    Ashley Lee then quickly moves back behind the counter and grabs a handgun, which she gives to her mother, Tina Ring. They duck behind the counter as the robber comes back in, stole holding the shotgun. Ring then shoots the suspect and he runs out of the store as Ring fires a second shot and then a third.

    As Ashley Lee, who had retrieved a second handgun, calls 911, the suspect returns to the store, this time without his shotgun. The wounded robber begins to struggle with Ring, who is still holding her gun. As he trie to take the weapon away from her, Ashley Lee fires and hits him in the back at point-blank range. He continues to struggle with Ring and eventually takes the gun from her and strikes her in the head. Police say she suffered a gash to the head and is recovering after receiving treatment at the hospital.

    He tries to shoot Lee, but the gun was empty at that point, police said. Already suffering from multiple gunshot wounds, Tyrone Lee falls to the floor. The women then flee from the store and the suspect later follows.

    Tulsa Police said he later turned up at a local hospital suffering from multiple gunshot wounds.

    2. Ring Says She Didn’t Want to Let the Robber Hurt Her Daughter, While Lee Says ‘Until You Have a Gun Waving at You, Don’t Know What You’re Gonna Be Thinking’

    Tina Ring told the Tulsa World, “I didn’t want him to hurt my daughter. That was my main thought.” She said they tried to give him the money and get him out of the store, but then he came back.

    “All I was thinking was ‘Just give him the money and go,’ and next thing I know, I see him back in my face,” Ring told the newspaper.

    Ashley Lee told ABC News, her mother, “was all I could think about,” during the horrifying experience. During an interview Sunday, Ring said that Lee, “saved my life,” and her daughter responded, tears in her eyes, “you saved my life.”

    Ring said she just wanted to keep her daughter safe.

    “The next thing I know that I have my gun and I’m shooting him. And I get up and I shoot him again, and he just keeps coming back to me,” Ring told ABC News.
    Lee told ABC, “Until you have a gun waved at you, you don’t know what you’re feeling or thinking. Looking at my mom’s face, it happened so fast, but it seemed like it lasted for so long.”

    Ring told Live PD Saturday night, “We’re fine,” but Lee said they’re “still in shock.”

    Ring added, “At one point I remember telling him, ‘just go,’ because we gave him the money. I recognized him, and I told him, ‘I recognize you, what are you doing? Why are you doing this?’ I don’t know why he came back in.”

    Ring said she didn’t want to shoot him, she was just doing what she had to do to protect her daughter.

    3. Police Say They Believe Lee, Who Remains Hospitalized, Has Been Connected to a String of at Least 10 Robberies in the Area

    Tyrone Lee in previous mugshots.
    Tyrone Lee remains hospitalized in critical condition, but is expected to survive, authorities said. Tulsa Police initially thought Lee would possibly not survive the shooting, but his condition improved while at the hospital.

    Police said they believe he is connected to at least 10 other robberies in Tulsa and Tulsa County carried out by a man armed with a sawed-off shotgun.

    Lee, 36, also has been arrested at least twice in Tulsa, past mugshots show. His full criminal record wasn’t immediately available.

    “It does appear this is the guy we’ve been looking for, for the last couple of weeks,” Sergeant Brandon Watkins told KTUL-TV. “He’s done multiple robberies here in Tulsa as well as up in the county.”

    Watkins added, “I wish we’d got to him first. I mean, he’d be alive right now. Or he would be in better shape than he would be now.” But the case isn’t over; there’s still work to be done. We’ve got to A, figure out who this guy is. Then we’ve got to piece together what exactly happened tonight, then we’ve got to put this in order with all the other stuff that we’ve had from the past on this guy.”

    Lee’s aunt, Corrine, went to Forest Acres Liquor to apologize to the family.

    “I just wanted to apologize for him because I know him. I raised him,” she told KTUL-TV. She added that she hopes he gets the help he needs. “I’d been trying to call him no answer. I knew something wrong. …He’s sick and I pray they get him some help
    Justin Christian, Tina Ring’s son, told the Tulsa World, “I hope he stays in the penitentiary and I hope he gets himself some kind of help.”

    4. Ring & Her Family Have Owned the Store for Several Years & Her Son Says They’ve Never Been Robbed Before

    Ashley Lee, left, and Tina Ring, far right, with another family member.

    Justin Christian, Tina Ring’s 33-year-old son, told the Tulsa World that the family has owned the liquor store for several years and has never faced a violent robbery before. He said they have had people steal bottles and have had their windows smashed twice, but this was the first incident like this.

    He told KTUL-TV that people know they have guns in the store.

    “We pretty much kinda let everybody know by putting signs up like that we are packing and we know what to do with them,” he told the news station.

    Christian, who reopened the store Friday, just hours after the robbery, told the World, “You got to do what you got to do to protect yourself and other people.”

    He told KJRH-TV, “You’re not going to scare me off from my store this is what feeds my family this is what pays my bills.”

    He said he doubts anyone will try to rob their store again.

    “They did what they had to do to stop someone that needed to be stopped,” Christian told KTUL. “They fought for their life … had my mom not made sure that the pistol she shot was empty, he tried shooting my sister with it point blank. It could’ve turned out different and worse and I’m sure glad it didn’t.”

    5. Lee, Who Is a Mom Herself, & Her Mother Have Been Receiving Support From Around the Country After the Terrifying Incident

    Ashley Lee.
    Ashley Nichole Lee, who herself has children and is married, said in an interview that she doesn’t plan to return to work at the family’s store after the terrifying incident. But she and her mother have received support from around the country.

    “With woman like these, makes you feel safe to come in and grab your beverage of choice after a hard weeks work with out looking over your shoulders,” Anthony Scott Broadway wrote on the Forest Acres Liquor store’s Facebook page.

    Great job defending yourselves ladies. No victims in YOUR world,” Rob Mulligan wrote.

    Michelle Chandler wrote, “When in Tulsa I will Always use this store !! It’s safe ! and protected ! God bless you (women)!”

    They have received negative comments and Lee responded on a local news station’s Facebook page, saying, “Y’all have no idea what I or my mother endured. Until you’ve been through something like that… please. I love my mother and wanted to do nothing more than to protect. It was hard.”

    Her husband, James Lee, commented, “My wife and her mom are the toughest women I know and I’m so proud of them if you have watched the video then you know that and we are so blessed that the outcome is what it is, I could not imagine life without my best friend and wife they are both amazing women and did not deserve this. Thank you all for your prayers and positive words they both need them right now.”

    Police also said they did what they had to.

    “The clerks did an outstanding job of fighting him,” Tulsa Police Sergeant Dave Walker told KJRH-TV.

    Lee barely got out with her life, her brother told the news station.

    “He reached over, she ducked and fired again, and of course the gun’s empty or else my mom and sister would be dead,” Justin Christian said. “What they’re showing on TV ain’t the real deal when you really watch it and know it and clean up the blood, and really understand what happened.”

    He said Tyrone Lee wanted to kill his mother and sister.

    “I’m still here, I did do it OK. My mom is still here, we’re still here, and we’re here to tell about it,” Lee told ABC News.
    The wonder of our time isnt how angry we are at politics and politicians; its how little weve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dredge View Post
    the mother should have fired till he was down instead of waiting after shots the daughter waited way to long to fire and to long between shots . When the robber grabbed her gun it should have been empty and she should have been throwing wine bottles at his head . Shoot to kill if you have to shoot , aimed head shot needs to be your first shot
    Head shots if you can, chest if you can't. Yes unload the gun into him. If it's good for the Police, it's good for us.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Olson View Post
    No, then he’d have come in shooting. Release some of that testosterone you have built up. You’ll feel better...
    Will do.....lol

  21. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by vestige View Post
    With all due respect to Bro. Nowski...

    That comment made my day.

    What would people do without booze...... end of the world.... at least in my case....

  22. #62
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    There are a half dozen current threads where I could have posted this, what with all the 'arm the teachers' debate going on right now. But I put it here mostly because I hope enough additional information comes out on that minute or so of video to draw some more useful conclusions from it.

    This is long. Anyone who is not a 'gun person' or who doesn't know who Jeff Cooper was may well find it tedious and be tempted to skip it.

    That might be the biggest mistake you make today.... or all week.

    Louis Awerbuck was the trainer of choice for DW and I, in part because we had a great deal of shared respect and affection for him and his sidekick Leigh, in part because what he taught was priceless, and in part because of how he taught it. A big part of it was because Durham Pistol and Rifle Club was one of the first regular stops he established when he left Gunsite and went out on his own as an itinerant instructor. It was just too good and too convenient to miss.

    I'm glad we took advantage of every chance we had.... God rest you, Louis.
    ===========================================

    http://louisawerbuckinterviewwithamadman.blogspot.com/

    Louis Awerbuck: Interview With a Madman
    Louis Awerbuck is one of the sanest people I know. He does, however, live in a world gone mad just like the rest of us.
    Friday, 2-27-2009

    Jeff Cooper once told me that he considers Awerbuck one of the top half-dozen firearms instructors in the world.

    Cooper helped Awerbuck immigrate to the U.S. from his native South Africa 25 years ago, and he has been instructing high-level firearms classes full-time ever since. Awerbuck teaches at major firearms training centers around the country under the auspices of his own Yavapai Firearms Academy.

    After spending a recent week watching Awerbuck work during a defensive pistol class at Gunsite, I wanted to get him off the range for a few hours and ask him some questions. We met for dinner a few miles from Gunsite at the Little Thumb Butte Bed & Breakfast, a favorite retreat for Gunsite students, where owner/hostess Ann Harrington served us a wonderful home-cooked meal on a private balcony overlooking endless juniper-dotted hills with a river running through them.

    Among his other personality attributes, Awerbuck is a very humble guy. If there is a gulf between the way he thinks and the behavior and attitude of society in general, Awerbuck is willing to admit that maybe he’s the one that’s crazy. From what I’ve seen, however, it’s clearly the other way around.

    I asked him what the toughest thing was about teaching people to shoot.

    “For beginners, probably realizing it’s easier than they think it is. They tend to overthink the problem. For experienced people, trying to correct ingrained habits they’ve had for years. That’s much harder.”

    Q: A lot of guys can teach the mechanics of shooting, which is fairly simple, don’t you think?

    A: It is extremely simple. It’s sights, trigger, follow-through. That’s all it is, that’s all it ever has been. Once the firing grip, the stance, the shooting platform and that type of thing are worked out. The actual operation of sending a projectile downrange on a steady target is sights, trigger, follow-through. Most people try to shoot too accurately and overthink the problem. They try for 103 percent and wind up with 40 percent. My draw to the game is the psychology of it, the whys and wherefores. It always has been.

    Q: I just read your book, Tactical Reality (Paladin Press 1999), and you talk a lot about that. I especially liked your chapters dealing with heart and mind. That’s a pretty deep subject.

    A: It’s real deep for a young kid. But none of this is new. This stuff is 5,000 years old. It’s the same mindset as the Samurai, the Ninja, Genghis Kahn, the Romans, the Greeks, the Spanish, you can just keep on going back through the ages. It was always the same thing.

    Q: Why do some people not get it?

    A: Some of the people who don’t get it are highly professional, skilled people -– like a commercial pilot, a neurosurgeon, somebody who cannot afford to make the slightest slip in his normal occupation, so he overthinks every single thing when he’s firing a weapon. They’ll “what if” things to death. Other people who don’t get it are not really fighting-oriented. From what I’ve seen, I think it’s a societal thing. Let’s face it, in North America you can pretty much buy anything you want. So people tend to think that if you pay a certain amount of money to be taught how to do something with a firearm, the net result at the end of the day is that you will be able to do it. It’s like paying to have your brakes fixed, or paying for an appendectomy. They’re paying for a service and they expect it to be done. They don’t figure they need any ability themselves or that they’re going to have to put some of themselves into it.

    Q: What do the non-warriors do when they get in trouble?

    A: They will probably have their pistol taken away, because really and truly deep down inside they are not prepared to take life even in defense of their own. So they’ll probably have their pistol taken away, get shot with their own pistol, and then the crook will leave with their pistol and shoot another person with it.

    Q: A lot of instructors have told me that their toughest problem is that something like eighty percent of people are not capable of shooting somebody.

    A: Not looking into their faces, looking into their eyes from six feet away and doing it. A lot of people will go out and shoot Bambi in the Coconino Forest and not think twice about it but couldn’t bring themselves to do it to a human, who just happens to be an animal walking on his back legs.

    Q: Do you see any parallels between defensive pistol shooting and dangerous-game hunting?

    A: Sure, as far as the adrenal dump, the chemical cocktail. Bambi is just pipes, wires, meat, bone, gristle, blood, the same as the rapist in the back alley.

    Q: But I’m talking about dangerous game. The hunter is not afraid of Bambi.

    A: If I’m afraid of you, in fear of my life, I need to do something about it. But we’ve grown up in a society where other people protect us. We expect to make a phone call and somebody will be there. It’s like pulling the blanket over your head to protect yourself from the bogey man.

    Q: That reminds me of the story about a cop who draws his gun and empties it into the floor so the bad guy won’t take it away from him. What’s going on there?

    A: If you’re talking of the same real-life incident I’m thinking of, that was a gunfight from hell. The cop and his partner went to serve a summons, and this guy had had a problem with his wife the night before or got out of bed on the wrong side or something, and as soon as the two cops walked in he grabbed the woman officer’s gun and killed her with it, right off the bat. So then this gunfight from hell ensued. The officer wound up with two guns, both revolvers. And he drained one into the floor of the house so this guy couldn’t take it and use it on him while he was trying to reload the other one. He reloaded twice, in one room, in a gunfight, it went on for nearly two minutes. He shot the guy through the ribcage, contact work. The guy dropped and then he got up when the officer turned around. The guy got up and hit the cop with a two-by-four.

    If it’s the same incident, it wasn’t a case of buck fever. The thing is, in a gunfight you don’t know what you’ve done afterwards, retrospectively. You think you know what you’ve done, and you’ll backtrack everything to the premise to which you want to backtrack it.

    It’s like if you advocate what’s colloquially called point shooting and you tag somebody -– you’re in a deadly force situation and you fire one round and hit him right between the eyes at thirty feet -– you are going to convince yourself that you point-shot that round. You may have used sighted fire. You don’t know.

    Colonel David Hackworth had a real good expression to the effect that your perception in battle is only as wide as your battle sights. If you take five people involved in one incident and separate them straight after the incident, you’ll get five different stories of what happened. We have no perception of what’s happening when it’s happening.

    I’ve seen a guy with a bolt rifle drain four rounds out of it, just running the bolt never pressing the trigger, not understanding why the springbok didn’t fall over. There are people with a semiautomatic in a fight who never press the trigger, run the slide, never press the trigger, run the slide and jack out eight or fourteen live rounds on the floor. It’s called buck fever. That fascinates me, it’s the psychology, it’s all mental.

    I’m not God’s gift to shooting, but what does it take to hit a target? A static range target. Sights, trigger, follow-through. So why does somebody go out there and shoot ten rounds and miss after forty years and Lord knows how many millions of rounds? Something goes askew in your head, you just do something stupid like yank on the trigger or don’t follow through with the sights.

    There is nothing to taking a neophyte and teaching him how to shoot. The best-shooting pistol class you will ever see is a dozen fourteen-year-old females who have never touched a pistol. Are they gunfighters? I don’t know, but as far as mechanical shooting goes you can’t ask for anything more. A class of fourteen-year-old females will turn out amazing pistol shooters. They don’t have an ego, they haven’t got the prior mistakes, so they don’t know how to miss.

    Q: Shooting under pressure -– training or competition –- is as close as we can get to real life. Why does that pressure clarify and speed up the minds of some people but scramble the brains of others?

    A: Everybody has a button. The bottom line is, you cannot put pressure on me if I don’t allow you to do it. If I want to subjugate myself mentally to allow you to do something to me on a range that will affect the basic mechanical operation of what I always do, then I’m going to scramble my brain. If you give me a drill, the drill sinks in and I understand what the drill is and I churn it out, that’s what Gunnie Hathcock called “getting in the bubble.”

    Jeff [Cooper]’s “Flying M” (a man-on-man shootoff drill) is still being used today. I don’t know when he first used it, but I’ve been with him twenty-five years so I know it’s been around a quarter century. Every Friday afternoon in a 250 class at Gunsite, you have one so-called winner, who’s usually pretty good, and the rest are “also-rans.” But you don’t really have a winner, you have people who beat themselves over and over. The winner of the Flying M is hardly ever somebody who was better than three-quarters of the class, he just kept his feces coagulated, that’s all he did. It’s a three-round draw, bang, bang, speed load, bang, that’s all it is. It’s something ninety-five percent of the people in the class are capable of doing Wednesday afternoon. But at the end of the class, there’s a needle in the head. It’s all a mind deal.

    Everybody keeps saying the gun is just a tool. The bottom line is, the gun is just a tool. It’s a piece of metal. How many times are you going to let a two-pound piece of metal and plastic outwit you? We’re not talking about flying a Tomcat here, this is not brain surgery. But it is psychology.

    Q: Do you still get a kick out of instructing?

    A: Absolutely. Otherwise I wouldn’t be doing it. If I’d wanted to make money in my life, I would have done something else. Because you can’t do this job right and make a fortune out of it. If you make money your priority, or ego your priority, you’ve got a problem. And there’s lot of that, it’s become rampant in this game in the last ten years.

    Q: Why the last ten years especially?

    A: I have a theory, it’s a personal theory. It’s probably wrong. Once concealed carry came out, pretty much anybody could teach it. You’re teaching it out of a book, it’s primarily law. You go to Gunsite or Thunder Ranch or Blackwater or any of the big-name schools, you take a class as a student and all of a sudden you open your own school and you’re a firearms instructor.

    To decide that you know everything about firearms and tactics is about the most pompous thing you can do. A doctor’s got to go to university, an auto mechanic is going to be out of work if he doesn’t get updated training on all this technology in cars today. A weapons instructor just says, Hi, I’m a weapons instructor and I know all about guns and training and tactics and strategy. You look at instructor resumes, and they’ve taken all the classes, but what have they done? They’ve taken everybody else’s lesson plans and put them into a program of their own and they’re teaching it like a parrot.

    Q: There’s definitely a proliferation of so-called firearms academies, some of them run by IPSC guys who win a couple of titles and open a school.

    A: IPSC guys are very good shooters. Obviously, IPSC has changed from the early days, from what Jeanne-Pierre Denis and Jeff [Cooper] and the original guys set out to make it. The P was meant to stand for practical. The arguments went on in the 80s and very early 90s about whether it’s practical or it isn’t. Finally, IPSC got to a stage in the early 90s where they said, No, we’re not being practical, it’s a sport. But the bottom line is, if you get somebody like Rob Leatham, Jerry Barnhard, guys like that, they’re tremendous mechanical shooters. And if they open a school and teach mechanical shooting, which a lot of them do, I think there’s nothing wrong with that.

    Q: But is mechanical shooting what is needed by most people who get their concealed carry permits and want to protect themselves?

    A: How many people who get concealed carry permits do you think are serious about it? How many do you think want to punch a piece of paper so they can legally have a firearm if one day they might need it. Most people buy a gun, take a concealed carry class, buy a box of fifty rounds of ammunition, and the firearm and fifty rounds of ammunition are found in their estate thirty years later. In a drawer somewhere.

    Q: Those people need to initiate a thought process more than they need to learn how to shoot well.

    A: I pulled a pendulum clock apart once, stripped the entire thing down and couldn’t get it back together again. Don’t you think that a clockmaker would have said, Why is this guy pulling this clock apart? Like we’re saying, Why is this guy carrying a gun, why isn’t he serious, why didn’t he go through a thought process? With us it’s firearms strategy and tactics, with somebody else it’s a clock.

    The only difference is, survival is instinctual. It’s not a learned habit. And these days –- I’d say since the early 90s in North American and now it’s starting to spread worldwide -– something strange is happening. Look at a thirteen- or fourteen-year-old kid today, he was raised in a world of political correctness, not hitting back, turn the other cheek, he’s lost his self-protective instinct. Look at 9-11. People said, This is terrible, somebody’s bombed these buildings, this is absolutely horrific, somebody needs to do something about it. Who somebody? I don’t know because I can’t do it, I’m busy right now. Self-preservation is being bred out of us. It’s cyclical. Every hundred, two hundred years it happens. Today, if somebody has a power failure for an hour you’ll get stampeded to death at Safeway for a run on candles. You can’t last an hour in the dark in your own house.

    War has always been the solution. War has always solved all the problems. You reduce the number of mouths to feed. Everybody’s got a job. Instincts are reinvigorated. That’s why there’s continuous war. When man lit the first fire and figured out how flame works, he said, Now who can we go burn?

    And the world is getting smaller, no question, because of technology. At an amazing pace. We’re losing the ability to think. Do we need the ability to think? Right now yes, but we may not need the ability to think in forty years time. Once technology is perfected, you may not have to think for yourself. If you’re in a car that drives itself to work on a GPS and your grandkids are going to the moon for a weekend vacation ...

    Q: So why do a growing number of people still think they need to learn to shoot?

    A: Because the gun still represents the equality of power. Whether it’s a little old lady from Pasadena or a muscle man, with a gun they can deliver equal power from a distance, whether six feet or sixty yards. Some people are realizing the glory days are gone. The world is pretty much hell-bent for destruction, because we’re in for a worldwide religious war from hell, this is going to make the other world wars look like Sunday picnics. Right now you have laws, you can’t carry a gun here, you can’t do this there, you can’t spit on the sidewalk, these may be fine in a peaceful society. But when you’ve got a society that’s gone mad, worldwide, the law of the jungle supercedes all other laws.

    Q: Is pop culture and the mass media leading this or following it?

    A: I think it’s self-feeding. When I first came out here there were all the standing jokes about the National Enquirer. You know, I don’t buy it, I don’t read it, but the national media is pretty much the same as the National Enquirer now. The media is a lot to blame, but if people are going to blame the media and it’s self-feeding and you’re going to buy this to read it, of course they’re going to give you what you want. If there’s no market, there’s no seller. It’s like drugs. You can bomb Colombia till it’s a parking lot, but if you don’t stop the person in Phoenix, Arizona from snorting the stuff up his nose there will be a market. Somebody will make the stuff. If the person in Phoenix, Arizona doesn’t snort the stuff up his nose there is no market, there is no point in manufacturing it because you can’t sell it to anybody because nobody wants it. It’s as plain and simple as that.

    Q: You wouldn’t think this country would have got so soft so quickly, would you?

    A: You would and you wouldn’t. Something like 9-11, yeah it’s a tragedy, but it’s not like this is the first time something like this has ever happened in the history of the world. People over here wonder why somebody sitting in South Africa or Germany may ask, Well, what have we been saying for thirty years? What are you getting so excited about? It’s a tragedy, absolutely it’s a tragedy, but all of a sudden now it’s a worldwide problem. It’s been a worldwide problem for thirty or forty years. Everybody’s been telling us that, but it’s been so warm and cozy here. Now we say we’ve got to do something about this, we need to call somebody.
    I have a buddy in California whose daughter’s boyfriend just got suspended from school. In California it’s a big deal to get suspended from school. With all their political correctness, you’ve just about got to murder somebody. This kid is a really good kid. By today’s standards, it’s almost bizarre what a good kid he is. The reason he was suspended is because he grabbed another kid by the shoulder and told him to cut it out because that kid was walking around the school grabbing girls’ boobs from behind. So, for doing what clearly needed to be done, he was suspended.

    I love dogs, but if one comes here and he’s jumping at me with all his teeth showing and white foam around his mouth, he hasn’t just been brushing his teeth with Crest. He’s rabid. As much as I love dogs, I’m going to have to kill him. The problem is people standing there saying, Maybe he’s just a clever dog who can brush his own teeth and forgot to rinse his mouth. And then they’ll start discussing fifteen brands of toothpaste. They just miss the point entirely.

    Q: You’re the only guy I know who carries both a 1911 and a Glock.

    A: I’ve got my reasons. I don’t want extraneous levers and things on my back-up weapon (a Glock 19). I won’t call it a back-up, it’s an alternate weapon because you may not be able to get to the primary. Using different weapons is just mindset. The minute it hits your hand you start thinking longer trigger pull, shorter trigger pull, double action, not double action, whatever. I used to run a .44 Special revolver and when the Glock came out I figured eleven rounds of 9mm in an easier-to-shoot weapon of the same size is a good trade-off for five rounds of .44 Special.

    I firmly believe a .45 is better than a .44, and I think a Tomcat fighter is better than a shotgun. Unfortunately, I can’t get a Tomcat or a shotgun in a holster, so rule number one is to hit your target. It does no good to miss the target, but people are missing. The 9mm has been out for a hundred years, the .45’s been out for a hundred and fifty years if you include the British Webleys. They’ve always got the job done.

    The sorry truth is, my brother got killed with one round from a .32 S&W revolver. Stone dead. It hit him in the head and he’s dead. No matter what you carry, your primary objective is hitting the target. You cannot turn a handgun into a big-game rifle, I don’t care what you do to it. And if you did, it would be unmanageable in a gunfight. So people are not hitting the target, and it comes back to training.

    I’ve got a problem with flat, non-representative targets. We’re talking about shooting people, and if the target is an 18 by 30-inch piece of flat paper, this has nothing to do with reality. All males from the shoulder line to the waist are the same height, whether it’s me or a basketball player. And from nipple to nipple they’re all nine inches wide. So in a full frontal shot, if you’re out nine inches here you’ve got nothing. And if people are going to be kind enough to stand like that, why are you shooting them? They’re probably twisted in like this with an AK or a blade and you’re down to three or four inches of target.

    But you’ve got to start somewhere. If you’ve got a neophyte you’ve got to teach him the basics. The problem is, what is an advanced gunfight? There is no advanced gunfight. I’m running with curved targets, graphic targets, angled this way and that and everything else. But you’ve got to start somebody off with flat paper, explain this is the trigger, these are the sights, this is the follow-through, get them to shoot a group on a piece of paper. You can get an organ grinder’s monkey to shoot a group on a piece of paper, he can take his paw and pull the trigger back and he can shoot accurately. That’s all there is to it. Has this got anything to do with shooting people, when the target is that big and three feet away from you and is about to turn you into a little brown spot on the ground?

    People are very, very hard to hit because a lot of shooters cannot transpose the angles of a biped as opposed to a quadruped. You were talking about dangerous game earlier on. What comes at you like a human? Maybe a polar bear, that’s about it. Everything else runs on four legs, but a human is usually on his hind paws most of the time when you have this problem. People have trouble transposing this concept into a vertical instead of a horizontal problem. I bend one piece of cardboard, interstice it into another and then staple a target over that, then I angle them some way or twist them or turn them. Now you’ve got to start thinking about going into the ribcage, side of the head, simulating a flight of stairs. If the guy is lying in a bed, say the head’s facing you and the feet are away, you have to go in real high, because if you shoot at the chest and miss by five degrees you’re going to miss him entirely.

    If a shooter cannot look somebody in the eye at six feet away and be prepared to take a human life he shouldn’t be carrying a gun. A lot of people think they’re prepared to do it, they can whack Bambi in the Coconino Forest, but when it comes to looking you in the eyes and delivering rounds, they can’t do it.
    I think it’s a function of being dumbed down as a society. My God, somebody’s about to shoot and kill me, let me get on the cell phone and call 911. Law enforcement will magically materialize and interstice themselves between me and this guy eight feet away who’s coming into me with a 12-inch knife.

    It’s the noise in your car engine. If I turn the radio up, the noise in the engine goes away. No it doesn’t. That motor’s going to blow up. Get the engine fixed now or you’re going to be stranded on the side of the highway with your fancy radio. Every silver lining has a dark cloud. I’m not a pessimist, I’m a realist.

    Q: You’re approaching the age when a lot of guys retire. Have you thought about that?

    A: When my reactions slow down to where I miss your hand when I’m grabbing for it, I’ll quit the next day because I’d be running an unsafe range. I don’t want to sound supercilious, but I’m getting like the humble martial artist who finally realizes that he needs another four hundred years of this. I’m at base level, I’ve finally got a little bit of knowledge, now I’ve got to start climbing the tree.

    Posted by Robert Boatman at 8:17 AM
    Last edited by Dozdoats; 02-26-2018 at 02:50 PM.
    The wonder of our time isnt how angry we are at politics and politicians; its how little weve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  23. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20Gauge View Post
    What would people do without booze...... end of the world.... at least in my case....
    ^^^^THIS^^^^

    Alcoholic beverages are one of the massive pillars,
    upon which human civilizations are built.

    In fact, right after the flood, Noah planted a vineyard,
    made some wine, and he got kigering drunk.
    Genesis 9: 20-21

    A glass or two of a good red wine, is known to have
    good medicinal properties. The French, who have
    a lot of fat in their diets, have mostly red wine during
    their meals, and have significantly least heart disease
    than do Americans. This so called "French Paradox"
    has been traced to their consumption of red wine.

    I follow their example, and have at least one glass,
    of red wine everyday. The local liquor store down
    the street, also has a great selection of wines.
    I always thank them, for being here for the community.

    Please be safe everyone, and please arm up.

    Regards to all deplorables.

    Nowski
    "Read everything, listen to everyone, believe absolutely nothing,
    unless you can prove it with your own research." Milton William Cooper

    "Life is a glass, half empty, of spoiled milk, sitting in a bed of thorns." Nowski

  24. #64
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    http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot...n-streetz.html

    Thursday, February 22, 2018
    Granny Guns & Kilts in the Streetz

    A gun that allows you to yell down a dark hallway "You'd better leave! I've called the cops and I have a gun!" and not be lying will put you ahead of the game in probably eight out of ten private citizen defensive gun usages. If the gun will make a loud noise, there's a better than even chance it will solve the ninth.
    https://mountainguerrilla.wordpress....guerrilla-gun/

    It's only on that unlucky tenth incident that things like capacity, caliber, reliability, bullet selection and other angels we gun nerds like to set to dancing on the heads of pins come into play.

    As Claude Werner is fond of pointing out, we do a disservice when we make people think that unless they're rocking a G19 in AIWB kydex and can shoot an Advanced score on the FAST cold and on demand, they might as well not even bother carrying a gun at all. Better the LCP in a pocket now than the Glock someday.
    https://tacticalprofessor.wordpress....et-a-real-job/
    http://ballisticradio.com/2018/02/14...ary-11th-2018/

    The great objective is that every man (and woman) be armed.
    .

    Posted by Tam @ 7:05 AM
    Labels: Boomsticks, Preparedness, teh intarw3bz
    The wonder of our time isnt how angry we are at politics and politicians; its how little weve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  25. #65
    #62:

    The world is pretty much hell-bent for destruction, because we’re in for a worldwide religious war from hell, this is going to make the other world wars look like Sunday picnics. Right now you have laws, you can’t carry a gun here, you can’t do this there, you can’t spit on the sidewalk, these may be fine in a peaceful society. But when you’ve got a society that’s gone mad, worldwide, the law of the jungle supercedes all other laws.
    Tremendous.

  26. #66
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    I'm glad it worked out for them, but you can tell they don't have a lick of firearms training at all. Hope they go out and gets some training ASAP.

  27. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Olson View Post
    JMHO for civilian defensive use: minimum .357 mag or .45 ACP. Wear the pistol and have reloads at hand. First person empties the gun into the dirtbag, then reloads while the second person does the same. Rinse and repeat until he’s dead on the floor.
    You damn skippy!!!! That's exactly how to handle this type of situation!! I applaud these women for having the guts to take this POS on and win. However as has already been said they needed some actual training with firearms. AND as Dennis stated a LARGER more effective caliber. I dare say that a .357 mag to the brain would've stopped the threat in a millisecond.

    Kudos ladies! Now learn from the mistakes so the next time something happens you perform better.

  28. #68
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    I dare say that a .357 mag to the brain would've stopped the threat in a millisecond.

    So would a .22LR.

    There ain't no magic calibers, there ain't no magic bullets. If you can't hit 'em where they live you aren't gonna one shot stop 'em with anything that isn't crew served - and maybe even that.

    Placement and penetration are ALL you got. Your job as a shooter is placement. The gun/bullet's job is penetration. It takes two to tango in this dance. There simply are no substitutes. Go back and look at the OP video again. This hood rat was shot FOUR TIMES according to meeedia reports. Once with a .38Spl and three times by whatever semiauto the daughter had. And he was still on his feet, even if not very steady, he took the (thankfully empty) revolver away from mom and would have popped the daughter with it had it still had a round in it.

    Bigger is better IF THE SHOOTER HAS MASTERED IT. Faster is better IF THE SHOOTER CAN HIT WITH IT. Other than that see penetration and placement again.

    Elmer Keith had it right all along ...

    ETA - don't know that name? - http://www.sixguns.com/bunkhouse/elmer_keith.htm
    Last edited by Dozdoats; 02-27-2018 at 12:10 PM.
    The wonder of our time isnt how angry we are at politics and politicians; its how little weve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  29. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by 20Gauge View Post
    Head shots if you can, chest if you can't. Yes unload the gun into him. If it's good for the Police, it's good for us.
    I was quite proud of the two women. They had " True Grit " and tenacity, and hung in the fight !

    I would suggest they each get new weapons, along with LEO style Duty Belts, with spare mag pouches. Carry on their person, not have to go to a spot to retrieve their weapon. No matter where they are, they always have it on their side. Whatever weapon they go with, they need to buy a lot of ammo, and practice, practice, practice !! They just need something bigger than what they had. Personally, I would suggest .45 ACP, or .40 S&W. The perp should have been carried out in a body bag !!!

    Very good job Ladies !!


  30. #70
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    The girls need real guns and LOTS of practice!

  31. #71
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    I've shown this video to all the womenfolk in the house- I'm the only male here - and discussed what we saw.

    I can't/won't second guess these ladies on their actions (they survived), besides the daughter shooting the boogie in the back - when that shot could have easily penetrated through and through and killed her mother, they walked away and lived to set an example for others.

    This is an excellent case study in the use of force and what went right and what went wrong.

    I urge you guys, and gals, to show your loved one's this, and tell/show them what to do.

    IMHO, you don't stop shooting until the threat cease's to be a threat.

    I'm still waiting to see what caliber handguns the girls were using. It doesn't really matter, again they lived, but I am curious.
    From a fireball we came, crossed sea and mountain
    We were drinking beauty with our eyes
    We were given all to make our own, let us be left alone

    III

  32. #72
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    If you are female, and not a gun person, and you want to know about firearm self defense, please go to https://www.corneredcat.com/ and read the whole thing. I've known Kathy for more than a decade online though I have only met her in person once (at Tom Givens' Polite Society Conference in 2012). She is a mom, a shooter, a trainer and she knows whereof she speaks. I have watched her for years and she is now a power to be reckoned with in the defensive firearms training business. https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathy-jackson-bb723837
    The wonder of our time isnt how angry we are at politics and politicians; its how little weve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  33. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warthog View Post
    I'm glad it worked out for them, but you can tell they don't have a lick of firearms training at all. Hope they go out and gets some training ASAP.
    I was amazed at how the mother held on to her handgun in the struggle. The daughters performance was not as impressive. Despite her guarded insertions into the attack, and firing her weapon into him. They survived with their shot trading episode against the perp. Watching the video the first time I was worried for their every move. Thankfully their double mongoose style of fight prevailed.

    It appears the perp was more of a robber than a killer. That scattergun employed properly would have ended it for the ladies.

    I bet the girls will move up to training on some Glock 32’s, or 7 or 8 shot .357’s. I’m curious as well as to the specifics of caliber and placement in this incident.
    Last edited by L.A.B.; 02-27-2018 at 03:24 PM.

  34. #74
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    They need to go get the proper training,
    and they need to get it now.

    I have stated this before. The prison systems are extremely overcrowded,
    and many convicts that should be behind bars, are being let out.

    It is a good possibility, that this POS FUSA African basterd,
    will not get much prison time, if any at all, due to the overcrowding.

    You can wager, that he will be back there to get his revenge,
    which the tribal jungle culture, which has absolute dominion
    over his very existence, will demand of him.

    Liquor stores, just like convenience stores,
    need to have armed security on premises,
    during the hours when the store is open.

    People, it is not going to get any better in the ole FUSA,
    not ever again will there be a time, when relative safety
    and security is taken for granted by the majority
    of the population. Them days are gone, and it was the
    damned liberal damocrats, pandering to the POS FUSA
    African sub-human race, that caused the cessation of
    those much better days, with the passage of the 1964 CRA,
    which made the POS FUSA African sub-human race,
    a protected class.

    Please be safe everyone, and please arm up.

    Regards to all deplorables.

    Nowski
    "Read everything, listen to everyone, believe absolutely nothing,
    unless you can prove it with your own research." Milton William Cooper

    "Life is a glass, half empty, of spoiled milk, sitting in a bed of thorns." Nowski

  35. #75
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    http://www.news9.com/story/37596369/...-store-robbery

    Woman Returns To Work Days After Traumatic Tulsa Liquor Store Robbery
    Posted: Feb 26, 2018 6:06 PM EST Updated: Feb 26, 2018 6:34 PM EST
    By: Erin Conrad, News On 6

    Videos at the link:
    Mother, Daughter Recount Traumatic Robbery Experience PT. 1
    06:22

    Mother, Daughter Recount Traumatic Robbery Experience PT. 2
    06:03

    Mother, Daughter Recount Traumatic Robbery Experience PT. 3
    06:44

    TULSA, Oklahoma -
    Investigators say a mother and her daughter are lucky to be alive after an armed man tried to rob their liquor store.

    The two women were able to fire their guns at the robber and escape. The whole thing was caught on surveillance video and has received national attention.

    Police returned to the scene Monday to collect more evidence in the case. And, despite the traumatic event, Tina Ring was also back at work checking out customers.
    "This is crazy, for real…my mortgage is due and the electric is due and I mean, I still have bills," Ring said.

    Ring and her daughter, Ashley Lee, were behind the counter Friday when they were robbed at gunpoint.

    2/22/2018 Related Story: Man Shot By Owner During Tulsa Liquor Store Attempted Robbery, Police Say

    "All I saw was his hood and a mask over his face and he said, ‘It's a robbery,’ and I said, ‘It's a what,’" Ring said.

    In the surveillance video, you can see the masked man walk inside and point a gun.
    The man, identified by police as Tyrone Lee, takes money from the cash register then appears to leave - but the ordeal is far from over.

    2/23/2018 Related Story:Tulsa Police Name Man Shot During Apparent Robbery Attempt

    Erin: “Did you think you were going to die?”

    Ring: “Yeah, yeah. I did. When he came. When he came over here, you know, and we're squatted down and I'm thinking he's gone, and then it's just like there he is, and there's his face and his shotgun again, and it's just like, yeah."

    Ring said after she fired the first shot it looks like Tyrone Lee is walking away, but, she said he turned and acted like he was coming back, so she kept shooting.

    "I just didn't have a whole lot of time to think other than just stop, stop," she said.
    But he didn't stop.

    "I just kept pulling the trigger, and I just kept pulling it, and I kept pulling it and kept pulling it. So, to make sure that it was empty, and then eventually he ended up getting my gun, and, I guess he come up from behind me and he hit me in the head. I got like seven staples," she said.

    2/23/2018 Related Story: Aunt Of Tulsa Robbery Suspect Apologizes To Victims

    Eventually, you can see Ashley Lee shoot Tyrone Lee in the back and the mother and daughter eventually run outside to safety, happy to be alive.

    Ashley Lee: "I'm just blessed that she looked out for me the way that I would look out for her."

    Ring: "I wasn't going to let him hurt her, and she wasn't going to let him hurt me…I’m extremely happy that my daughter can go home to her children because I really, I thought he was going to kill us.”

    Ring said she won't be going anywhere, but she isn't sure she wants her daughter to come back to work, something Ashley Lee isn’t on board with.

    Ashley Lee: "We just fought a hard fight and I don't feel like I'm going to be able to overcome it unless she lets me come back.”

    Ring: “We'll talk.”

    Ring still has bruises on her body and seven staples in her head where Tyrone Lee hit her.

    We're told Tyrone Lee is still in the hospital.
    Last edited by Dozdoats; 02-27-2018 at 05:58 PM.
    The wonder of our time isnt how angry we are at politics and politicians; its how little weve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  36. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by L.A.B. View Post
    I was amazed at how the mother held on to her handgun in the struggle. The daughters performance was not as impressive. Despite her guarded insertions into the attack, and firing her weapon into him. They survived with their shot trading episode against the perp. Watching the video the first time I was worried for their every move. Thankfully their double mongoose style of fight prevailed.

    It appears the perp was more of a robber than a killer. That scattergun employed properly would have ended it for the ladies.

    I bet the girls will move up to training on some Glock 32’s, or 7 or 8 shot .357’s. I’m curious as well as to the specifics of caliber and placement in this incident.

    sorry - but his return into the booze store was 100% MURDER intended - he got uber pizzed that a pair of white women had upped him - those women are damn lucky he didn't re-arm himself ....
    Illini Warrior

  37. #77
    Join Date
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    This is essentially the OP video, but with inset video from what appears to be a second security camera.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=5SL71NKYWFY
    Mother-daughter duo thwart armed robbery in Oklahoma liquor store shootout
    R/T 05:22
    The wonder of our time isnt how angry we are at politics and politicians; its how little weve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  38. #78
    Join Date
    May 2001
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    Behind Enemy Lines
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    Hey DD, could you please get rid of the extra “stuff” in the post?

    Thanks!

  39. #79
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Happy on the mountain
    Posts
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    The extra 'stuff' in 75 describes videos available at the link that are not duplicated on youtube or anywhere else I know of. I left the material because it seemed some might be interested in hearing what the mom and daughter had to say ...

    I'll see if some of the space can be cleaned up...
    The wonder of our time isnt how angry we are at politics and politicians; its how little weve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  40. #80
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illini Warrior View Post
    sorry - but his return into the booze store was 100% MURDER intended - he got uber pizzed that a pair of white women had upped him - those women are damn lucky he didn't re-arm himself ....
    Good thing then he was totally incompetent in that task.

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