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The Grand Solar Minimum
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  1. #1321
    Quote Originally Posted by Martinhouse View Post
    I think it's possible that in another couple of years, most won't be able to afford to move south. Or they will end up in the hills where most of the dirt is just one big rock under a few inches of crushed rock. It took me a long time to get decent soil, and at that, I had to have six dump trucks of dirt brought in to get enough soil to make a garden.

    It's still hard for me to believe I leveled all that dirt with a wheelbarrow, shovel and rake! And they were those big huge sized dump trucks! Was I ever that young and strong? Nowadays, it takes me over an hour to move three bags of chicken feed from my truck in the driveway to the feed cans by the chicken run, which is a little uphill, but not much over a hundred feet!

    So if you want to move south, better do it soon. It's probably going to be as cold here in a few more years as it is up north now. And if you stay up north, better have lots of sturdy greenhousing and access to firewood where there aren't a jillion other people thinking that they are going to use it Meaning, if you live at the edge of a national forest, you're probably going to have lots of neighbors. Close neighbors.
    You have a valid point here....it's probably better for the true prepper that most are blissfully ignorant.



    The high points are the four previous civilizations created during the favorable periods of solar maximums; the Minoan, the Roman, Medieval, and our Current warm periods.

    When the tipping point comes, as it has for every previous culture, panic will reign.

    von Koehler
    Last edited by von Koehler; Yesterday at 08:52 PM.
    Fad saol agat, gob fliuch, agus bás in Éirinn!

    Christianity is the estranged descendent of a bizarre Jewish apocalyptic cult.

    Kein Krieg für Israel!

  2. #1322
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    2,642
    Quote Originally Posted by Martinhouse View Post
    I think it's possible that in another couple of years, most won't be able to afford to move south. Or they will end up in the hills where most of the dirt is just one big rock under a few inches of crushed rock. It took me a long time to get decent soil, and at that, I had to have six dump trucks of dirt brought in to get enough soil to make a garden.

    It's still hard for me to believe I leveled all that dirt with a wheelbarrow, shovel and rake! And they were those big huge sized dump trucks! Was I ever that young and strong? Nowadays, it takes me over an hour to move three bags of chicken feed from my truck in the driveway to the feed cans by the chicken run, which is a little uphill, but not much over a hundred feet!

    So if you want to move south, better do it soon. It's probably going to be as cold here in a few more years as it is up north now. And if you stay up north, better have lots of sturdy greenhousing and access to firewood where there aren't a jillion other people thinking that they are going to use it Meaning, if you live at the edge of a national forest, you're probably going to have lots of neighbors. Close neighbors.
    Why move? People have survived previous minimums in the northern part of the country. I grew up in a house built in the 1780s. The people that lived there survived 2. Oldest house in Maine was built in the late 1600s so the people there survived at least 3.

  3. #1323
    Sure people survived in the north, but not all of them.

    And in that post I said IF you want to move south...

  4. #1324
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    East Central Texas
    Posts
    1,854
    On Drudge, top left and just under the bold headlines in the center, is the headline Lack of sunspots to bring record cold, warns NASA scientist which links to Felix's iceagenow.info story. Guess I'd better hustle up and place those long term grains orders before some of the sheeple catch on and prices go up and/or supplies shrink.

    This morning we woke up to temps in the low 30s, sustained strong winds and higher gusts, and wind chills in the teens. Tonight we dip into the 20s actual temps. There are snow flurries and sleet falling all the way back to San Antonio. Almost finished making 'window blankets' with fleece fabric and expanding curtain rods, which helps block that coolness that is by the glass...thankfully not drafts. It helps make a cozy feeling at night.

    Hoping we see the sun around mid day. We have enough windows to get the passive solar effect on the south side. It would be a blessing.

  5. #1325
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    2,642
    Quote Originally Posted by TxGal View Post
    On Drudge, top left and just under the bold headlines in the center, is the headline Lack of sunspots to bring record cold, warns NASA scientist which links to Felix's iceagenow.info story. Guess I'd better hustle up and place those long term grains orders before some of the sheeple catch on and prices go up and/or supplies shrink.

    This morning we woke up to temps in the low 30s, sustained strong winds and higher gusts, and wind chills in the teens. Tonight we dip into the 20s actual temps. There are snow flurries and sleet falling all the way back to San Antonio. Almost finished making 'window blankets' with fleece fabric and expanding curtain rods, which helps block that coolness that is by the glass...thankfully not drafts. It helps make a cozy feeling at night.

    Hoping we see the sun around mid day. We have enough windows to get the passive solar effect on the south side. It would be a blessing.
    OUr house is a partial earth berm passive solar and those windows work both way. We lose a lot of heat through them. We have curtains but I am looking at using 1" foam board cut to fit to put in at night. That hasn't been approved by the boss yet so who knows. May end up compromising on a more substantial thermal curtain.

  6. #1326
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    East Central Texas
    Posts
    1,854
    Quote Originally Posted by mecoastie View Post
    OUr house is a partial earth berm passive solar and those windows work both way. We lose a lot of heat through them. We have curtains but I am looking at using 1" foam board cut to fit to put in at night. That hasn't been approved by the boss yet so who knows. May end up compromising on a more substantial thermal curtain.
    Yep, understand the window issues. In Texas summers, we keep blinds closed during the day. Sure don't want 100 degrees plus coming in! My original plan was to use the foam board. This arctic air came in far earlier than normal for here, so I pulled fabric out of my stash to use. I think back in the old days old quilts and blankets were used up north. Family was from upstate NY and PA, I spent most of my life in northern VA, and we heard a lot of stories on how things were done way back in the late 1800s/early 1900s. Lots of things to learn from those generations.

  7. #1327
    This thread has become quite long, with thousands of "views" whatever that means.

    So, I have thought of an interesting challenge.

    Try bringing up the topic of climate change, and talk about global cooling.

    What is their reaction? Disbelief? Don't want to talk about it? Think you are crazy? Argue or ignore?

    Probably the key people to talk to are your family members and spouse.

    My ex would always agree with a change; but only after it was too late to do anything. Until she saw it actually happen, it wasn't "real" to her.

    Curious to know what the responses are.

    von Koehler
    Last edited by von Koehler; Today at 10:39 AM.
    Fad saol agat, gob fliuch, agus bás in Éirinn!

    Christianity is the estranged descendent of a bizarre Jewish apocalyptic cult.

    Kein Krieg für Israel!

  8. #1328
    Quote Originally Posted by mecoastie View Post
    Why move? People have survived previous minimums in the northern part of the country. I grew up in a house built in the 1780s. The people that lived there survived 2. Oldest house in Maine was built in the late 1600s so the people there survived at least 3.
    Please do not interpret this as a personal attack, as that is not my intent.

    I think you are comparing "apples with oranges" here as there as are significant differences between today and New England of the 17th century.

    Then:

    population was much smaller
    no use of electricity
    no use of fossil fuels [perhaps some use of coal]
    people were far closer to the land; many were farmers or tradesmen
    even still, after the "Year without a Summer" there was a outflux of discouraged people resettling further west to warmer climates

    and the biggest reason is that the Grand Solar Minimum is expected to be harsher then in the Maunder Minimum. There's a huge difference in consequences from a 1.5 degree Centigrade drop and a 3 degree Centigrade drop-it is not a linear progression but an exponential expression.

    Can someone survive in New England? Sure, if you make the proper preps and have the money $$$ to spend for them. Anyone can grow bananas in Maine IF you know how to and are willing to throw enough money into producing $100 a bunch bananas.

    I am just saying your survival problems would be lessened by relocating to a relatively warmer region. It's easier to cope with 0 degree Winters than a minus 25 degree blast.

    However, I am NOT saying the South will not escape untouched. I remember reading accounts on how the Seminole indians in Florida first encountered snow during the Maunder Minimum and called it "white rain" because they had no frame of reference.

    von Koehler
    Last edited by von Koehler; Today at 10:49 AM.
    Fad saol agat, gob fliuch, agus bás in Éirinn!

    Christianity is the estranged descendent of a bizarre Jewish apocalyptic cult.

    Kein Krieg für Israel!

  9. #1329
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    East Central Texas
    Posts
    1,854
    Quote Originally Posted by von Koehler View Post
    Well, to add to the doom porn, this chart also implies that the Eddy Minimum will last at least for 40 years!

    I will be gone long before that date, but it means my daughter and her children will face a tough future.

    Choices made today literally will affect you for the rest of your life: stay put and hunker down OR relocate elsewhere?

    But where? Further South? Does this mean real estate in the Northeast and Midwest pluments while warmer Southern areas gain?

    von Koehler
    Serious points you've raised. We know we won't see the deepest of the GSM since we're in our 60s, but our adult children and future family generations will. They are aware and understand the implications of the changes. Our planning is not just for ourselves, but for them, as well. We have the acreage and wooded areas that we manage for now and the future, pecan and fruit trees (we planted dwarf and semi-dwarf trees, now thinking we'll add standards for the longer life span), a variety of water sources and stocked ponds, good fencing and poultry housing, raised bed gardens. Grains and Mountain House freeze dried will last at least 30 yrs plus stored properly. Grain mills and food processing equipment can be handed down for generations, too.

    Land prices are already rising, I think in large part to people moving in from California. Not that we'd like a lot of company down this ways (I think we'll get it anyway), I would suggest south of DFW. It gets pretty cold up that way. In many areas, though, if the GSM knowledge takes hold, land will be needed for crops and livestock as more northern land becomes inhospitable. I would think priority would have to shift to preserving crop and ranch land.

  10. #1330
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    289
    Quote Originally Posted by mecoastie View Post
    Why move? People have survived previous minimums in the northern part of the country. I grew up in a house built in the 1780s. The people that lived there survived 2. Oldest house in Maine was built in the late 1600s so the people there survived at least 3.
    I've been thinking about this a lot since this thread started. I still haven't fully decided. I feel that it would be pretty rough staying put in Western Maine, but I also think there is going to be a rush to move South once things get in full gear. I could beat the rush and move South to establish a homestead, but what happens when it becomes common knowledge and there is a mass migration South? I am leaning towards spending time and money to survive in Maine. I may change my mind. For a couple of reasons, I really can't fully relocate until around 2020. Maybe that will be too late and the decision will be made for me.

    I recently had a discussion with my father about his childhood in central Maine. I know it doesn't compare to a minimum, but I state this as how different our comfort level is now. My father told me what he was a kid in the mid-1950's that the old house they lived in didn't have running water. They got water from a year-long spring and kept it in a milk container (those big metal ones). He said when they got up in the morning during winter, most days they had to chip the ice that had formed in the milk container. It was that cold in the house. I asked if they heated the house with a wood stove and I was surprised that he said they didn't have a wood stove. They heated the house with a single, big kerosene tower heater. It sounded similar to the tower heaters we have nowadays, but he said it had a big glass "globe".

    Nowadays, when I tell people the furnace is set for 60F, they think that is freezing. Granted, with the wood stove going it is usually closer to 70F, but unless it is really cold out, I usually let the fire go out at night and the furnace will kick on in the early morning. I know we would need to adjust quite a bit to survive a minimum in Maine. In many ways, not just temperature wise.

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