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ECON What is Bitcoin? A POSITIVE Thread For Learning About Crypto Currencies
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  1. #1
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    3 What is Bitcoin? A POSITIVE Thread For Learning About Crypto Currencies

    Cryptocurrencies have been receiving a lot of press coverage recently.

    Ever since the first crypto currency, Bitcoin or BTC approach the $20,000 value, a few days ago ( DEC 2017).

    The path to understanding crypto currencies and their future utility can be difficult and will require many hours on your part to scratch the surface.

    Bitcoin only exists in the ether of digital bits which may be found on the internet, in your computer or your smart phone.

    Bitcoin was created by a man/woman/ group, nobody knows for sure, named Satoshi Nakamoto who published a document/ White Paper, nine years ago. That White paper provided a blueprint for the development of a new type of decentralized, fully open,digital currency.

    Please stop and watch this Youtube video by Andreas Antonopoulos titled appropriately,

    Introduction to Bitcoin

    https://youtu.be/l1si5ZWLgy0



    Sorry I am a computer Tard so I don't know how to embed this video but if someone would like to help me I would be very grateful. [[Added it for you, Sat. ]]

    More Information and Opinion from Zero Hedge:

    Stop Treating Bitcoin Like A Stock


    by Tyler Durden
    Dec 16, 2017 12:45 PM






    Authored by Jordan Stephens via Hackernoon.com,
    Itís not.


    ( HODL is crypto speak for hold on to your coin for dear life )



    I donít know about you, but Iíve never felt so compelled to drink in my life than the past week watching Bitcoin. Itís like watching a paper airplane bounce in the wind that could either nosedive any moment or catch another swift gust upward.


    I get it. It looks like a really volatile stock ripe for quick profit or financial demise at the roll of some dice, and if we keep treating it this way, thatís exactly how it will remain.
    Investing in stock drives the production of better goods and services, but currency isnít a commodity which will depreciate due to the nature of its own decay. Itís not a service which could lose its public appeal in a few years. Intellectual property is a closer metaphor, but a dollar will still never hold intrinsic value, ironically, unless it is one day viewed as an antique.
    The true beauty of currency is that it doesnít exist corporeally nor have any intrinsic value at all.
    Cryptocurrency, by its very nature, cannot accurately represent value if it is perceived as being valuable itself, and as soon as we stop treating it as a means to redistribute wealth in another currency, it can get back to doing its real job?ó?facilitating fair and reliably accountable exchange. If thatís not your endgame for participating in it, then you should get out of it entirely because youíre defeating the purpose.


    What weíre witnessing in arguably the grandest display in recent history is dissatisfaction with the status quo, and each dollar exchanged is an act of rebellion, a protest, and middle finger to every bank who is ďtoo big to fail.Ē As the price of bitcoin grows, so does a collective wager that the people can manage our own transactions more reliably than isolated centralized systems with national borders. Its volatile gesticulation is a global negotiation and argument how best to handle our transactions.


    Putting money into any cryptocurrency isnít an investment. Itís a vote.
    Will Bitcoin win?

    Who knows? Itís literally up to us. If any currency including the dollar crumbles, itís because consumers lost faith in it, not because it couldnít sustainably meet some demand. So if you take away one thing from me, let it be this:
    Calling Bitcoin a bubble is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
    Got a lot of money in it and want to see it grow? Then leave it. If we could all agree on this notion, Bitcoin could be the new global reserve tomorrow, and youíd be doing your shopping not with all the money youíve made from Bitcoin, but with Bitcoin. Instead of questioning how much of our dollars to exchange, weíd be scrambling to get the rest of it in there. This is the one question you should ask yourself when exchanging fiat value for cryptocurrency: Is this how Iíd rather spend my money? If Bitcoin is not your answer to that, donít buy it.


    Bitcoin isnít the first of its kind, and itís demonstrably not the last; itís just the most successful right now, and since popularity is really at the heart of any mass system of exchange, success, in the long run, will be what matters. So since this thing is just getting started, should we trade around? Sure, go for it. Something will inevitably come out on top or else weíll all be stuck in some purgatorial economic limbo for a long time. This will probably occur when the public is satisfied with the fiat efficiency of managing transactions and the current distribution of wealth, but until then, put your money where your faith is. That way, we wind up with a system we actually want.


    If youíre satisfied with dollars, keep your dollars. After all, you already have the advantage of participating in the fiat system. And if youíre looking to make more of them, buy stock generated by dollars, not cryptocurrency because if fiat profit is what youíre after, the mainstream financial analysts are right?ó?itís a terrible and risky investment to take your desired currency out of its participatory system.


    end Zero Hedge______________________________________




    So this thread is to teach each other about the positive benefits of crypto currencies.

    We all need to learn how to find safe and professional exchanges, crypto wallets, and alternative methods of purchasing or trading bitcoin.

    Current methods should be explained and future applications can be discussed.

    Andreas Antonopoulos sells books that explain what Bitcoin and its cousins are and they can be found on Amazon as well a lots of other places.

    https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...d=XEQPN4WWSPOQ


    PLEASE start your own thread if you want to bash, Troll or be a Jack azz.


    Thanks for your help:

    Paul

    PS Grammer and spellin mistakes provided free of charge
    Attached Images
    Attached Images
    et conciderunt ligna, ergo sum

  2. #2
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    I am here to learn!

    At my son's urging in early October, I dove in an made modest purchases of Bitcoin,Ethereum, and Litecoin. Have tripled my money in 49 days.

    Not knowing any better I still have my monengy stored on the Coinbase exchange. So now I'm learning about wallets. Shhh! Hardware wallets, software wallets, paper wallets, yikes, so much to learn!

  3. #3
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    Haven't watched the video yet. My little research shows them as being iffy and almost useless. Sure it would be nice to have bought into them but the outset cost seems above my pay scale and, unless one can be sure to cash them in it's not like I can go to the grocery store and use them to pay for food or gas.
    "It ain't no secret I didn't get these scars falling over in church."


    I have not failed. I have simple discovered ten-thousand ways things don't work.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satanta View Post
    Haven't watched the video yet. My little research shows them as being iffy and almost useless. Sure it would be nice to have bought into them but the outset cost seems above my pay scale and, unless one can be sure to cash them in it's not like I can go to the grocery store and use them to pay for food or gas.
    Hey Sat, Thanks for your help with the video.
    Best of luck to you in your ventures,
    Paul
    et conciderunt ligna, ergo sum

  5. #5
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    There will be credit cards soon where you will be able to swipe your card to make purchases. Litecoin will make life simpler and cheaper. All of the coins will explode in value next year. Watch a few videos on YouTube. JSNIP4 and Mike B have channels. Put these guys in the search box and listen.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loretta Van Riet View Post
    I am here to learn!

    At my son's urging in early October, I dove in an made modest purchases of Bitcoin,Ethereum, and Litecoin. Have tripled my money in 49 days.

    Not knowing any better I still have my monengy stored on the Coinbase exchange. So now I'm learning about wallets. Shhh! Hardware wallets, software wallets, paper wallets, yikes, so much to learn!
    ************************************************** ************************************************** **************************************************

    Dear Loretta,
    Congratulations on joining such a wonderful adventure and thank you for sharing.
    You have 3 of the best coins available in your portfolio, IMHO.

    My advisor, the Super Trader uses the Ledger Nano hardware wallet. I am now of the opinion that a backup hardware wallet or multiple wallets can be useful in the future.

    FYI, on exchanges, they should only be used to get in and out of trades, if possible.

    I got lazy in the past, when we didn't have hardware wallets and left some coin on two exchanges (MtGox and Cryptsy) that crashed. Lost maybe 3 or 4 BTC. At the time it didn't seem like such a big deal.....heh... Now they would be worth $70-80K and that kind of dough would could come in very handy.

    Paul
    et conciderunt ligna, ergo sum

  7. #7
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    I haven't watched the vid either. Just chiming in. Which hardware wallet? I'm thinking Treazor. Other opinions?
    I'd rather be paranoid, prepped and wrong than be irrationally happy, frivolous and screwed.

  8. #8
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    Oh that's antanopoulous or whatever the spelling. Definitely a good introduction to what it is.

    Just remember that the $ is only an accounting system. Bitcoin is the same. The $ requires a bank, bitcoin does not require a bank for a transaction to complete. It's peer to peer(p2p).

    So who needs a bank anymore when this gets going?

    btc is not a bubble. it's a life altering technology. Was Google a bubble at $32 a share? Is Facebook a bubble? Was the internet a bubble? Was the automobile a bubble?

    I've made a fair amount of money in this already. Hodl!
    I'd rather be paranoid, prepped and wrong than be irrationally happy, frivolous and screwed.

  9. #9
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    I have viewed the Andreas Antonopoulos's video 6 or 7 times since October. It definitely prompted me to learn more and take a chance.

    I only invested a small amount of money.

  10. #10
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    I put a meager $100 in bitcoin not so long ago and have seen staggering gains. Now I'm trying to learn mining methods, because the notion of a thing that works while I work elsewhere and means a second income stream is something I've been eager to find for a while now.

  11. #11
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    6 Bitcoin Hardware Wallets Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Northwet View Post
    I haven't watched the vid either. Just chiming in. Which hardware wallet? I'm thinking Treazor. Other opinions?
    Well, I have a Trezor and have been studying it. I have not used the Trezor yet because of the Tiny Tiny screen.
    Lots of people are using the Trezor and are happy

    You must learn how to occasionally update the Trezor firmware to avoid possible attacks and to add new coins/ tokens.


    I have a Keepkey that I use. It has worked good and handles BTC, ETH, LTC, DOGE and DASH. The only problem I encountered is with an Ether transfer which failed due to low Gas ( new term ). I did complete the ETH transfer by sending it to another exchange.


    KeepKey: the Simple Cryptocurrency Hardware Wallet

    4.1 out of 5 stars 300 customer reviews
    Color: Black

    Bank-Grade Security that is Simple: KeepKey is the most secure bitcoin wallet available. It makes best-practice bitcoin security easy so that even your grandmother can protect her bitcoin wealth.
    Backup and Recovery: During initialization, you are given the one-time opportunity to write down a backup of your KeepKey in the form of a twelve-word recovery sentence. If your KeepKey is lost or stolen, you can safely recover your device and its bitcoins without compromising the security of your private keys.
    Virus and Malware Proof: Because KeepKey does not have an operating system, the layers that viruses, malware, and key loggers infect do not exist on the device. Using KeepKey gives you confidence that hackers can't get to your bitcoins.
    Multi-Currency Support: KeepKey not only supports Bitcoin, but also Ethereum, Litecoin, Namecoin, Dogecoin, Dash, and Testnet.
    Works on PC, Mac, Linux, and Android: KeepKey is a USB HID-class device. That means, like a typical mouse or keyboard, drivers are not required. Plug in the provided premium USB cable, and your device just works: immediately giving you the highest level of bitcoin security.

    New (15) from $191.00 + $4.00 shipping

    ************************************************** **********************************************

    The Keepkey has a relatively large screen and is solidly built. The company is reorganizing due to ??? funding problems, I guess, so that is an issue to consider.


    The Ledger Blue looks pretty cool with a larger touch screen. Butttttt, very expensive right now compared to the Ledger Nano S.

    ************************************************** **************************************************

    Ledger
    Ledger Blue Hardware wallet for Bitcoin Ethereum Litecoin Dogecoin Dash Zcash Fido

    Battery-powered, Bluetooth* and USB enabled, the Ledger Blue can operate with any computer and smartphone.
    The Blue embeds a color display and a large touchscreen with anti scratch glass, encased in a strong cover.
    Supports Bitcoin, Bitcoin Cash, Ethereum, Ethereum Classic, Ripple, Litecoin, Dogecoin, Zcash, Dash Coin, Stratis, Ark, Komodo, PoSW, Fido, including ERC20 tokens etc..
    The Blue is built upon an advanced operating system that supports easy installation of applications, accessible via a quick-launch dashboard. Install & remove apps with Ledger Manager Free firmware upgrades Enterprise app licensing & support
    Your confidential data is never exposed: it is strongly secured and isolated inside a Secure Element, locked by a PIN code.

    New (7) from $899.50 + $4.00 shipping

    ************************************************** ************************************************

    JUST FOUND THIS:


    TREZOR vs. Ledger Nano S vs. KeepKey
    by Jordan Tuwiner

    https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/...eepkey-ledger/


    Price
    Screen
    Security
    Setup
    Size & Design
    Software Compatibility

    For a while, the TREZOR was the only hardware wallet on the market. Now, KeepKey and the Ledger Nano S have been released and have created great competition in the hardware wallet market. Not only has the competition lowered prices, but it makes choosing the right hardware wallet a tough decision.

    This comparison will show you which wallet is better in different categories for TREZOR vs. KeepKey vs. Ledger Nano S.

    trezor vs. ledger nano s vs. keepkey
    Price


    The Ledger Nano S is the cheapest wallet of the three by far.
    Wallet Price
    Ledger Nano S $60
    KeepKey $99
    Trezor $99

    Screen

    For a while, the TREZOR was the only hardware wallet with a screen. Since a screen is such an important security feature for a hardware wallet it was clear that more would be created.

    Security

    All three wallets are very similar in the way that they handle security.

    The main difference is that the Ledger Nano S uses two secure elements/chips, while the TREZOR and KeepKey are essentially small computers.

    All three devices have screens which means they can be securely setup and used even on computers infected with malware.

    Setup

    All three wallets are very easy to setup and require a micro USB cable to use.

    I have been able to set up all three in just a couple of minutes. All three wallets require very similar steps to setup, like writing down a backup of your recovery seed and setting a PIN code.
    Size & Design

    trezor vs. ledger nano s vs. keepkey

    As seen in the image above, the TREZOR is by far the smallest of the three devices. Each wallet does have some unique differences that are hard to see in the picture. Also note that the Nano S can be folded into about the same size as the TREZOR, but to use it you must unfold it.

    The TREZOR and Ledger Nano S both have two physical buttons, while the KeepKey has one.

    The KeepKeyís screen is much bigger than the other two wallets. As mentioned earlier, the KeepKeyís larger screen means it can be securely recovered using a cipher which leaks less data.

    The TREZOR is made out of plastic, while the Ledger Nano S and KeepKey are made out of aluminum. Although aluminum sounds like itís nicer, the TREZORís plastic can actually prove to be more drop resistant.
    Software Compatibility

    In order to use any hardware wallet you need software that helps you command and interact with the wallet. The table below shows the compatibiltiy of Bitcoin wallet software with each hardware wallet.


    ************************************************** ************************************************** ****

    See the site for nice tables comparing features and costs.

    Good luck and BE SAFE out there!

    Paul
    Attached Images
    et conciderunt ligna, ergo sum

  12. #12
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    Where to buy the above wallets?
    When I check Amazon, the prices are TRIPLE than those listed.

    When I check my local computer-electronics store, they are NOT carrying wallets- yet.


    Hmmm. If you order Trezor from their website you must pay in Bitcoin for that price! If you want to pay with credit card you must purchase from Amazon
    at the higher price. I'm learning! Other sources? Oh, I'm warned ...don't buy a wallet from E-bay!!!!!
    Last edited by Loretta Van Riet; 12-18-2017 at 10:28 AM. Reason: more info

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loretta Van Riet View Post
    Where to buy the above wallets?
    When I check Amazon, the prices are TRIPLE than those listed.

    When I check my local computer-electronics store, they are NOT carrying wallets- yet.


    Hmmm. If you order Trezor from their website you must pay in Bitcoin for that price! If you want to pay with credit card you must purchase from Amazon
    at the higher price. I'm learning! Other sources? Oh, I'm warned ...don't buy a wallet from E-bay!!!!!
    I have had good luck with Amazon.
    The prices are going up, sorry about that.
    You need to get a hardwallet now before the herd learns about them, price be darned
    et conciderunt ligna, ergo sum

  14. #14
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    14 Here is Where I Get My Trading Information.... I Am Not your Financial Advisor

    Here you go troops. Major unbelieve ability risk sharing this with you. Try to keep open mind.

    Trader Boss gives crypto trading response to nay sayers and answers questions about why the crypto market is going nuts.

    The advice is provide via a Youtuber I follow. His handle is Jsnip4.

    Joe, jsnip4, has Teamed Up with Trader Jeff ( or Trader Boss as joe calls him) to share information on super coin deals and how his students have made over 200-500% return in the past month.yes.month... They are selling some great videos which are extremely interesting and very dense with market analysis information, but if you just follow jsnip4's free Youtubes they give away most of the trades anyway .

    After you have watched the introduction to Bitcoin video which I have shared above, go and listen to list guy. You won't be disappointed IMHO.

    **** I am not affiliated or compensated by these Guys for saying nice things about them or their products *************

    Youtube title: LiveStream - Trader Boss Let's Review some of his calls (Shills on youtube...sigh

    https://youtu.be/BUpARO_SaK4

    Good luck and be safe out there,

    Paul

    PS: I Am Not Your Financial Advisor! Nuff Said
    et conciderunt ligna, ergo sum

  15. Quote Originally Posted by paul bunyan View Post
    Here you go troops. Major unbelieve ability risk sharing this with you. Try to keep open mind.

    Trader Boss gives crypto trading response to nay sayers and answers questions about why the crypto market is going nuts.

    The advice is provide via a Youtuber I follow. His handle is Jsnip4.

    Joe, jsnip4, has Teamed Up with Trader Jeff ( or Trader Boss as joe calls him) to share information on super coin deals and how his students have made over 200-500% return in the past month.yes.month... They are selling some great videos which are extremely interesting and very dense with market analysis information, but if you just follow jsnip4's free Youtubes they give away most of the trades anyway .

    After you have watched the introduction to Bitcoin video which I have shared above, go and listen to list guy. You won't be disappointed IMHO.

    **** I am not affiliated or compensated by these Guys for saying nice things about them or their products *************

    Youtube title: LiveStream - Trader Boss Let's Review some of his calls (Shills on youtube...sigh

    https://youtu.be/BUpARO_SaK4

    Good luck and be safe out there,

    Paul

    PS: I Am Not Your Financial Advisor! Nuff Said
    Hey, awesome to see this on here! I LOVE these guys! I watch every video I can get my hands on. Wish I could afford to buy their online courses, but we're just not there yet. Hubs and I have been living paycheck to paycheck for the past year, and managed to put a little into cryptos thanks to these awesome men. A little is better than nothing, but I love most of all the way they explain things on their videos. I try to glean as much knowledge and know-how as I can, if (I mean, WHEN) our profits start coming in and I can do a little bit more. Totally recommend subscribing to that channel.

  16. #16
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    Crypto arbitrage, anyone?

    Links at the original
    =====================

    http://www.safehaven.com/article/448...high-with-dash

    Buying Low and Selling High with DASH
    By: Ross Pilot | Mon, Dec 18, 2017

    There has been a lot hype about Bitcoin arbitrage. You buy cheap Bitcoin on one crypto exchange and then sell it on another exchange where the price is higher.
    For example last Tuesday Bitcoin was priced at $17,178 US on Bitfinex but was only $16,328 on Poloniex. If you had bought Bitcoin on Poloneix and then sold on Bitfinex you would make a profit (before trading fees) of $850 or close to 5% gain.

    Do that ten times over and you have made 50%.

    By Friday the gap closed to $100 but it took days for the spread to narrow.

    Regular retail investors (that’s you and me) can’t take advantage of the spread that often occurs in the price of Bitcoin between different crypto-currency exchanges.
    To do arbitrage with Bitcoin and the US dollar, you need to be able to cycle Bitcoin AND US dollars quickly between the exchanges. The money “flow” would go like this:
    1.) Buy cheap Bitcoin on Poloneix
    2.) Transfer Bitcoin from Poloneix to Bitfinex
    3.) Sell Bitcoin on Bitfinex
    4.) Transfer US dollars to Poloneix
    5.) Repeat

    You may have already spotted the problem already. You can’t transfer US dollars from crypto exchange to another without a great of trouble. You first must wire the dollars to your bank account and then wire the dollars to the other crypto exchange.
    If you are lucky, that will only take three days, which is too long. The market could easily move against you in that time, wiping out your 5%.

    One solution to that problem is to use Tether, a digital coin created by Bitfinex that is pegged to the US dollar. In theory, each Tether is backed by one US dollar held in reserve (I say “in theory” because there is huge speculation in the media that there are fewer US dollars held in reserve than Tether coins issued).

    Nevertheless, Tether is heavily used for crypto arbitrage. How do I know? Well, even though the nominal value is $1 USD, it’s currently trading at $1.08. That’s right it’s trading higher than its nominal value because it’s so useful in crypto-arbitrage.
    However, there are still problems doing crypto-arbitrage using Bitcoin and Tether.
    With Bitcoin, if you want to transfer Bitcoin from one exchange to another in less than an hour, you must now pay some hefty transfer fees. Miners are asking as much as $100 (and higher) to transfer Bitcoin and are still taking up to two hours per transfer. Even in a few hours the market can move against you.

    The Solution: Don’t Use Bitcoin for Crypto-Arbitrage, use DASH

    Instead of using a currency pairing of Bitcoin/US dollars, use an altcoin of DASH/Something else.


    This is a screengrab of the Bitfinex trading platform. I have four screens open, two of Bitfinex and two of Poloniex. The next picture is a closer view of the tabs.

    Let me explain what you are seeing.

    The symbol BCH stands for Bitcoin Cash. Last Tuesday it traded at 0.093910 Bitcoin Cash for every one Bitcoin on the Bitfinex exchangs and at 0.09382865 on the Poloneix exchange, a difference of less than 1 percent. That is the your neutral currency pair.

    Meanwhile DASH was trading for $885 on Bitfinex and $857 on Poloneix, a difference of 3.2%. This is the currency pair you make money on.

    The money “flow” would now go like this:
    1.) Buy cheap DASH on Poloneix
    2.) Transfer DASH from Poloneix to Bitfinex
    3.) Sell DASH on Bitfinex for Bitcoin Cash
    4.) Transfer Bitcoin Cash to Poloneix
    5.) Buy DASH on Poloneix

    After trading fees, you should be able to clear 1% on your trade which doesn’t sound like much except you need to take in account trade velocity.

    Trade velocity is how many trades can you do in one hour or one day. Let’s say you have a float of $10,000. With trading fees cutting your 2% spread down to 1%, you make $100 with every cycle. Each cycle takes one transfer of DASH to one exchange and one transfer of Bitcoin Cash to the other exchange.

    A DASH transfer can take as long as 5 minutes but usually averages 2.5 minutes. A Bitcoin Cash transaction can take as long as 2 hours. Assuming you spend 5 minutes executing trades that’s about 2 hours and ten minutes executing the cycle.

    You make 5% over the course of one day.

    Risks of Crypto-Arbitrage
    Two hours is more than enough for the price to move against you. I picked Bitcoin Cash as it has a fair amount of volume and it has a listing on many exchanges. However it’s not the best currency to trade (but better than Bitcoin).

    A much greater risk is the holds that various crypto-exchanges will place on depositing and withholding funds. At present withdrawals from Bitfinex have been backlogged for days because of heavy volume.

    So How Do I Make Money?
    It’s not easy but you don’t need to be a genius either. You need to willing to spend more than a few hours manually grinding through lists of cryptocurrency pairing and finding crypto-exchanges with 1) Low trading fees 2) Quick deposit and withdrawal times and 3)Favourable currency pairings.

    You can look for crypto-exchanges here.

    If you are a nerd with not a huge amount of money (like $10K or less) crypto-arbitrage can very profitable. The lesser-know exchanges do not have a lot of liquidity so $500 trades can be a large order for them. BUT the spreads can be huge, easily 10% between different exchanges.

    You can easily spend many hours exploring an exchange and learning the back story of the coins that they list.

    If I wasn’t writing this newsletter and trading stocks, I would be doing crypto-arbitrage full-time.

    By Ross Pilot
    The wonder of our time isnít how angry we are at politics and politicians; itís how little weíve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Dozdoats View Post
    Crypto arbitrage, anyone?

    Links at the original
    =====================

    http://www.safehaven.com/article/448...high-with-dash

    Buying Low and Selling High with DASH
    By: Ross Pilot | Mon, Dec 18, 2017

    There has been a lot hype about Bitcoin arbitrage. You buy cheap Bitcoin on one crypto exchange and then sell it on another exchange where the price is higher.
    For example last Tuesday Bitcoin was priced at $17,178 US on Bitfinex but was only $16,328 on Poloniex. If you had bought Bitcoin on Poloneix and then sold on Bitfinex you would make a profit (before trading fees) of $850 or close to 5% gain.

    Do that ten times over and you have made 50%.

    By Friday the gap closed to $100 but it took days for the spread to narrow.

    Regular retail investors (that’s you and me) can’t take advantage of the spread that often occurs in the price of Bitcoin between different crypto-currency exchanges.
    To do arbitrage with Bitcoin and the US dollar, you need to be able to cycle Bitcoin AND US dollars quickly between the exchanges. The money “flow” would go like this:
    1.) Buy cheap Bitcoin on Poloneix
    2.) Transfer Bitcoin from Poloneix to Bitfinex
    3.) Sell Bitcoin on Bitfinex
    4.) Transfer US dollars to Poloneix
    5.) Repeat

    You may have already spotted the problem already. You can’t transfer US dollars from crypto exchange to another without a great of trouble. You first must wire the dollars to your bank account and then wire the dollars to the other crypto exchange.
    If you are lucky, that will only take three days, which is too long. The market could easily move against you in that time, wiping out your 5%.

    One solution to that problem is to use Tether, a digital coin created by Bitfinex that is pegged to the US dollar. In theory, each Tether is backed by one US dollar held in reserve (I say “in theory” because there is huge speculation in the media that there are fewer US dollars held in reserve than Tether coins issued).

    Nevertheless, Tether is heavily used for crypto arbitrage. How do I know? Well, even though the nominal value is $1 USD, it’s currently trading at $1.08. That’s right it’s trading higher than its nominal value because it’s so useful in crypto-arbitrage.
    However, there are still problems doing crypto-arbitrage using Bitcoin and Tether.
    With Bitcoin, if you want to transfer Bitcoin from one exchange to another in less than an hour, you must now pay some hefty transfer fees. Miners are asking as much as $100 (and higher) to transfer Bitcoin and are still taking up to two hours per transfer. Even in a few hours the market can move against you.

    The Solution: Don’t Use Bitcoin for Crypto-Arbitrage, use DASH

    Instead of using a currency pairing of Bitcoin/US dollars, use an altcoin of DASH/Something else.


    This is a screengrab of the Bitfinex trading platform. I have four screens open, two of Bitfinex and two of Poloniex. The next picture is a closer view of the tabs.

    Let me explain what you are seeing.

    The symbol BCH stands for Bitcoin Cash. Last Tuesday it traded at 0.093910 Bitcoin Cash for every one Bitcoin on the Bitfinex exchangs and at 0.09382865 on the Poloneix exchange, a difference of less than 1 percent. That is the your neutral currency pair.

    Meanwhile DASH was trading for $885 on Bitfinex and $857 on Poloneix, a difference of 3.2%. This is the currency pair you make money on.

    The money “flow” would now go like this:
    1.) Buy cheap DASH on Poloneix
    2.) Transfer DASH from Poloneix to Bitfinex
    3.) Sell DASH on Bitfinex for Bitcoin Cash
    4.) Transfer Bitcoin Cash to Poloneix
    5.) Buy DASH on Poloneix

    After trading fees, you should be able to clear 1% on your trade which doesn’t sound like much except you need to take in account trade velocity.

    Trade velocity is how many trades can you do in one hour or one day. Let’s say you have a float of $10,000. With trading fees cutting your 2% spread down to 1%, you make $100 with every cycle. Each cycle takes one transfer of DASH to one exchange and one transfer of Bitcoin Cash to the other exchange.

    A DASH transfer can take as long as 5 minutes but usually averages 2.5 minutes. A Bitcoin Cash transaction can take as long as 2 hours. Assuming you spend 5 minutes executing trades that’s about 2 hours and ten minutes executing the cycle.

    You make 5% over the course of one day.

    Risks of Crypto-Arbitrage
    Two hours is more than enough for the price to move against you. I picked Bitcoin Cash as it has a fair amount of volume and it has a listing on many exchanges. However it’s not the best currency to trade (but better than Bitcoin).

    A much greater risk is the holds that various crypto-exchanges will place on depositing and withholding funds. At present withdrawals from Bitfinex have been backlogged for days because of heavy volume.

    So How Do I Make Money?
    It’s not easy but you don’t need to be a genius either. You need to willing to spend more than a few hours manually grinding through lists of cryptocurrency pairing and finding crypto-exchanges with 1) Low trading fees 2) Quick deposit and withdrawal times and 3)Favourable currency pairings.

    You can look for crypto-exchanges here.

    If you are a nerd with not a huge amount of money (like $10K or less) crypto-arbitrage can very profitable. The lesser-know exchanges do not have a lot of liquidity so $500 trades can be a large order for them. BUT the spreads can be huge, easily 10% between different exchanges.

    You can easily spend many hours exploring an exchange and learning the back story of the coins that they list.

    If I wasn’t writing this newsletter and trading stocks, I would be doing crypto-arbitrage full-time.

    By Ross Pilot
    It’s impossible to get an account on Poloniex. I signed up well over a week ago, and rumor has it that they’re running two months behind on identification verification.

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=Dozdoats;6705981]Crypto arbitrage, anyone?

    Links at the original
    =====================

    http://www.safehaven.com/article/448...high-with-dash

    Buying Low and Selling High with DASH
    By: Ross Pilot | Mon, Dec 18, 2017

    There has been a lot hype about Bitcoin arbitrage. You buy cheap Bitcoin on one crypto exchange and then sell it on another exchange where the price is higher.
    For example last Tuesday Bitcoin was priced at $17,178 US on Bitfinex but was only $16,328 on Poloniex. If you had bought Bitcoin on Poloneix and then sold on Bitfinex you would make a profit (before trading fees) of $850 or close to 5% gain.

    Do that ten times over and you have made 50%.

    By Friday the gap closed to $100 but it took days for the spread to narrow.


    Thank You Doz. Those are fantastic trades. Not sure if I have the Guts to try it though. Not yet but soon.

    Paul
    et conciderunt ligna, ergo sum

  19. #19
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    Sheesh... I dunno. Seems like a great opportunity and I might be kicking myself later ( I have looked into mining but don't want to trash my computer ) but to sign up for these exchanges you need to link directly to your bank account and give all your personal info including SSN?

    Seems like a recipe for identity theft and waking up to no funds in your bank...
    Deo adjuvante non timendum - With God Helping, Nothing is to be Feared
    "You are like a pit-bull..." - Dennis Olson
    "No man knows but that the last backward glance over his shoulder may be his last look, forever." - Ernie Pyle Born: 1900 KIA: 1945 Shima, Okinawa

  20. #20
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    It takes a trader mindset to trade like that - and I don't have it.

    But it's interesting to get a wider perspective on what's happening in the cryptosphere ...
    The wonder of our time isnít how angry we are at politics and politicians; itís how little weíve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  21. #21
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    But which Crypto do you choose?
    Have the big players already had their run?
    Should you go with one of the newcomers in hopes of larger and faster returns?

    There are a FEW to choose from:
    Crypto Currency List

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sozo View Post
    But which Crypto do you choose?
    Have the big players already had their run?
    Should you go with one of the newcomers in hopes of larger and faster returns?

    There are a FEW to choose from:
    Crypto Currency List
    All good and important questions. This is so new to so many people. I've been investing for 30+ years and never seen anything like it. The rewards are fast and easy. Sounds great right? Many of the crypto's are scams, this is the wild west in money. If you have some to play with and very possibly lose it all, it's big fun. But don't bank on it(pun).
    I'd rather be paranoid, prepped and wrong than be irrationally happy, frivolous and screwed.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by OZARK View Post
    There will be credit cards soon where you will be able to swipe your card to make purchases. Litecoin will make life simpler and cheaper. All of the coins will explode in value next year. Watch a few videos on YouTube. JSNIP4 and Mike B have channels. Put these guys in the search box and listen.
    Or just go to their source, Clif High.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sozo View Post
    But which Crypto do you choose?
    Have the big players already had their run?
    Should you go with one of the newcomers in hopes of larger and faster returns?

    There are a FEW to choose from:
    Crypto Currency List
    This is a multiyear life changing event.
    You have not missed out!

    Litecoin is at $359 now and may be at $2000+ in Dec 2018...... ( $1000 for sure or I will buy your coins from you )

    Get going and get your Coinbase.com exchange account setup, and while you are waiting for them (2-3 weeks?).

    Then get your accounts setup at Poloniex and Bittrex exchanges.

    Coinbase will help you get your fiat $ into the crypto system, but they currently only trade 3 coins. Bitcoin, Litecoin and Etherium, which are the most stable and still very profitable.

    Don't worry about the other 1300 coins and tokens for now.

    Get setup on Bittrex exchange and you can buy a very HOT "EOS" and others.

    YMMV,
    Paul

    PS: Rumor on the street is the Next 3 Amigos Youtube (jsnip4, bix wier, and clif high) will have a fourth Amigo... My teacher Trader Jeff!
    Last edited by paul bunyan; 12-18-2017 at 09:05 PM. Reason: 3 amigos addition
    et conciderunt ligna, ergo sum

  25. #25
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    From the Blockfolio App, Dec 18, 2017 at 7pm pst:

    Growth for last 24 hours:


    LTC litecoin +14%
    ETH etherium +15%
    EOS +20%
    QTUM quantum +122% yes... 122% Woot Woot

    OMG OmiseGO + 27%

    and the list goes on.

    Come and join the party. Next year we meet in Tahiti.
    Paul
    et conciderunt ligna, ergo sum

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul bunyan View Post
    This is a multiyear life changing event.
    You have not missed out!

    Litecoin is at $359 now and may be at $2000+ in Dec 2018...... ( $1000 for sure or I will buy your coins from you )

    Get going and get your Coinbase.com exchange account setup, and while you are waiting for them (2-3 weeks?).

    Then get your accounts setup at Poloniex and Bittrex exchanges.

    Coinbase will help you get your fiat $ into the crypto system, but they currently only trade 3 coins. Bitcoin, Litecoin and Etherium, which are the most stable and still very profitable.

    Don't worry about the other 1300 coins and tokens for now.

    Get setup on Bittrex exchange and you can buy a very HOT "EOS" and others.

    YMMV,
    Paul

    PS: Rumor on the street is the Next 3 Amigos Youtube (jsnip4, bix wier, and clif high) will have a fourth Amigo... My teacher Trader Jeff!
    I just can't see it... Sounds like a phishing operation to target marketing...


    COINBASE PRIVACY POLICY
    When you use Coinbase Services, we collect information sent to us through your computer, mobile phone, or other access device. This information may include your IP address, device information including, but not limited to, identifier, device name and type, operating system, location, mobile network information, and standard web log information, such as your browser type, traffic to and from our site, and the pages you accessed on our website.

    If you create an account or use Coinbase Services, we, or our affiliates vendors acting on our behalf may collect the following types of information:

    Contact information - your name, address, phone, email, Skype ID, and other similar information; and
    Financial information - the full bank account and routing numbers and/or credit card numbers that you link to your Coinbase Account or input when you use paid Coinbase Services.

    When you use Coinbase Services, we collect information about your transactions and/or your other activities on our website and we may continuously collect information about your computer, mobile device, or other access device...

    We may use your personal information to Deliver targeted marketing, service update notices, and promotional offers based on your communication preferences; and verify your identity by comparing your personal information against third-party databases.

    From time to time we may request your permission to allow us to share your personal information with third parties. You may opt out of having your personal information shared with third parties, or from allowing us to use your personal information for any purpose that is incompatible with the purposes for which we originally collected it or subsequently obtained your authorization. If you choose to so limit the use of your personal information, certain features or Coinbase Services may not be available to you.
    Deo adjuvante non timendum - With God Helping, Nothing is to be Feared
    "You are like a pit-bull..." - Dennis Olson
    "No man knows but that the last backward glance over his shoulder may be his last look, forever." - Ernie Pyle Born: 1900 KIA: 1945 Shima, Okinawa

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarok View Post
    I just can't see it... Sounds like a phishing operation to target marketing...


    COINBASE PRIVACY POLICY
    When you use Coinbase Services, we collect information sent to us through your computer, mobile phone, or other access device. This information may include your IP address, device information including, but not limited to, identifier, device name and type, operating system, location, mobile network information, and standard web log information, such as your browser type, traffic to and from our site, and the pages you accessed on our website.

    If you create an account or use Coinbase Services, we, or our affiliates vendors acting on our behalf may collect the following types of information:

    Contact information - your name, address, phone, email, Skype ID, and other similar information; and
    Financial information - the full bank account and routing numbers and/or credit card numbers that you link to your Coinbase Account or input when you use paid Coinbase Services.

    When you use Coinbase Services, we collect information about your transactions and/or your other activities on our website and we may continuously collect information about your computer, mobile device, or other access device...

    We may use your personal information to Deliver targeted marketing, service update notices, and promotional offers based on your communication preferences; and verify your identity by comparing your personal information against third-party databases.

    From time to time we may request your permission to allow us to share your personal information with third parties. You may opt out of having your personal information shared with third parties, or from allowing us to use your personal information for any purpose that is incompatible with the purposes for which we originally collected it or subsequently obtained your authorization. If you choose to so limit the use of your personal information, certain features or Coinbase Services may not be available to you.
    Red Herring Argument??

    Coinbase has to follow all "FINCEN" regulations. They are US based. Same ID requirements as for your bank/ CU. You do banking?

    Coinbase will not have access to all your cell phone information if you do not download their Phone Application.

    Coinbase cannot run around inside your laptop or tower any more than hackers do now....heh

    Please remember this is a Cryptocurrancy assistance thread. Do not continue to TROLL.

    Paul
    et conciderunt ligna, ergo sum

  28. #28
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    Before anything, read the whitepaper...it's short and sweet...and beautiful...

    https://bitcoin.org/en/bitcoin-paper

    Begin where it began...

    o)<

    mike
    black is white...

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul bunyan View Post
    Red Herring Argument??

    Coinbase has to follow all "FINCEN" regulations. They are US based. Same ID requirements as for your bank/ CU. You do banking?

    Coinbase will not have access to all your cell phone information if you do not download their Phone Application.

    Coinbase cannot run around inside your laptop or tower any more than hackers do now....heh

    Please remember this is a Cryptocurrancy assistance thread. Do not continue to TROLL.

    Paul
    I'm not "trolling", I'm not raising "red herrings", I am addressing concerns ANY prudent investor ( that is new to this ) might have and an accusation of "trolling" does NOTHING to allay those questions.

    Thanks.

    you have told me all I need to know...
    Deo adjuvante non timendum - With God Helping, Nothing is to be Feared
    "You are like a pit-bull..." - Dennis Olson
    "No man knows but that the last backward glance over his shoulder may be his last look, forever." - Ernie Pyle Born: 1900 KIA: 1945 Shima, Okinawa

  30. #30
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    Quiet down everyone.
    I'd rather be paranoid, prepped and wrong than be irrationally happy, frivolous and screwed.

  31. #31
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    Sorry folks just a seriously bad cold that I'm dealing with. btc is really interesting and having fun playing with it.There are millions to be made so why fight over it.
    I'd rather be paranoid, prepped and wrong than be irrationally happy, frivolous and screwed.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarok View Post
    I'm not "trolling", I'm not raising "red herrings", I am addressing concerns ANY prudent investor ( that is new to this ) might have and an accusation of "trolling" does NOTHING to allay those questions.

    Thanks.

    you have told me all I need to know...
    ************************************************** **************************

    I'm sorry you don't like the truth. Your sarcasm accomplishes nothing.

    I answered your questions to the best of my ability. I am not a lawyer nor am I you financial advisor.

    This topic has been addressed multiple times on multiple threads that I am sure you have seen and participated in.

    Go back to the other Bitcoin thread and share your concerns. Please don't clutter up this thread with your diatribes.

    Paul
    et conciderunt ligna, ergo sum

  33. #33
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    Apparently the plans got out. Bitcoin to $60,000, then the Chinese and Russians straight-up murder it.

    Fair use cited so on and so forth.

    http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-new...tcoin_12182017

    Major Investment Bank Predicts: ‘China And Russia Engineer A Collapse Of Bitcoin’

    A major investment bank has predicted Bitcoin’s crash and pinpointed it to next year after it soars to over $60,000. Russia and China work together to “engineer the crash,” of Bitcoin the bank has predicted.

    According to Saxo Bank, Bitcoin will continue to rise during most of 2018 until it peaks at around $60,000. At that point, Moscow and Beijing will facilitate a crash of the cryptocurrency as they harshly crackdown on it. Saxo Bank predicts that more money will be gambled in digital currencies until more than £750billion ($1trillion) is invested worldwide.

    The forecast assumes a Russian crackdown taking the form of the Kremlin mining of the cryptocurrency itself and “shifting the focus away from Bitcoin in an effort to keep more Russian capital onshore.” Meanwhile, in China, Saxo Bank predicts a state-sanctioned virtual currency will be launched which requires less computing power – and less power – to mine. Eventually, due to the “heavy hand of state intervention,” interest in cryptocurrencies decreases and “completely sidelines the Bitcoin and crypto phenomenon from a price speculation angle,” according to the bank’s prediction.

    The prediction also finishes with Bitcoin’s end price at just $1000. Veteran investor Eric Schiffer has also shared his warning about the cryptocurrency. He thinks Bitcoin could become the biggest financial danger of the 21st century, branding it a “financial bubble bigger than the tulip craze.” He said: “I think bitcoin is a ‘tower of death’. It is going to result in the imminent death of your investment – a thermonuclear death.”

    However, other experts, such as Jordan Hiscott, chief trader at Ayondo Markets, do not agree with Saxo Bank’s assessment and prediction. Hiscott does not see a crash on the horizon for Bitcoin. But he has also warned people to think twice before investing their hard-earned cash in cryptocurrencies. “For good investment options find trusted companies that would do that for you or look for a commodity with actual underlying value,” said Hiscott.

  34. #34
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    For entertainment purposes only! "Bitcoin Obituraries" (my son sent me this link)

    https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoinobituaries/

    I love the one about "get out while you can!" when the price of Bitcoin was only $150.00
    Last edited by Loretta Van Riet; 12-19-2017 at 09:38 AM. Reason: more comments

  35. #35
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    Never trust a Bankers opinion on cryptocurrencies!

    Warren Buffet part owner of Bank of America said: Bitcoin is like rat poison.

    Max Keiser Financial Pundit and Contrarian said: Well then, Warren Buffet and Jaime Diamond are the RATS!
    et conciderunt ligna, ergo sum

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul bunyan View Post
    Never trust a Bankers opinion on cryptocurrencies!

    Warren Buffet part owner of Bank of America said: Bitcoin is like rat poison.

    Max Keiser Financial Pundit and Contrarian said: Well then, Warren Buffet and Jaime Diamond are the RATS!
    Considering how heavily invested the Chinese are in cryptocurrency mining, it's a surprisingly plausible notion. Especially with word that people are mortgaging their houses to buy bitcoin. What better way to cripple an enemy's tax base than to have the thing they're invested in drop to $50 a coin when they spent $16,000 a coin?

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacknarwhal View Post
    Considering how heavily invested the Chinese are in cryptocurrency mining, it's a surprisingly plausible notion. Especially with word that people are mortgaging their houses to buy bitcoin. What better way to cripple an enemy's tax base than to have the thing they're invested in drop to $50 a coin when they spent $16,000 a coin?
    I see the other Bitcoin thread has died and y'all need to come over here and share your doom. Refer to Loretta's Bitcoin obit's above.

    Well, start your own thread for the negative crap.

    This thread is to help folks who want to learn about cryptocurrencies and share a little humor too.

    Paul
    et conciderunt ligna, ergo sum

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul bunyan View Post
    I see the other Bitcoin thread has died and y'all need to come over here and share your doom. Refer to Loretta's Bitcoin obit's above.

    Well, start your own thread for the negative crap.

    This thread is to help folks who want to learn about cryptocurrencies and share a little humor too.

    Paul
    ...wow. Okay. 'scuse me for posting news to a news thread.

    Besides, you COULD have interpreted it as "Bitcoin will go to $60,000 before dying", which is about four times its current value.

    Methinks you look beneath bridges too often.

  39. #39
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    Just for giggles I dipped my toe into the pool today. Tried to sign up with Bitstamp but failed verification because of my P.O. box as an address which doesn't match the street address on the drivers license. There is a support ticket open but decided upon another route. I used https://changelly.com to make the initial purchase. I was interested in XRP which is Ripple but not every exchange can handle Ripple. Changelly 'changes' one crypto currency for another and just charges about .5% depending on the transaction. What they do is to query all the exchanges in order to find the best rate/price for buying and selling and they act as an intermediary.

    You can't buy XRP directly with them for US dollars but you can buy Bitcoin or fractions thereof for dollars. So what I did was to purchase an initial position using a credit card. Your card has to have 3D capability which most of them do and I had to verify thru email as well as a code sent to my cell phone that the transaction was authorized. Once that was completed the transaction was put into the chain. It took about 45 minutes to 'own' the Bitcoin. I needed a Bitcoin wallet as well as a XRP Ripple wallet to exchanged from one to the other. It wasn't too difficult to do once they are set up and their are guides on the internet on how to set them up and how to secure your keys, ect.

    So anyway, once the Bitcoin wallet confirmed that I had the Bitcoin I went back on Changelly and put in the Bitcoin wallet as the sender address and converted it all to Ripple and of course you have to insert your Ripple wallet address. So I converted the Bitcoin to Ripple using the service and right now I'm waiting for the confirmation to hit the Ripple wallet. There are also services to take your crypto and exchange them back to dollars and there are a number of options for that. You can wire the funds back to your checking account, or to a Paypal account or to your Debit card, ect.

    I like Ripple primarily because that is the Banksters choice right now and a number of banks are signing up for it and you know that Wall Street and the banks never lose out. I tend to think from what little I know that Bitcoin has hit a top for the moment because of the futures exchange and there will be a lot of liquidity flooding into the decent Altcoins especially the cheaper ones because of people looking to ride the next Bitcoin. Ripple has went from about a penny at the beginning of the year to 80 cents or so now and is the #4 crypto currently in valuation so we'll see what happens.

    Personally I think that the banks and governments secretly are not against the crypto currencies and that this is actually the platform that they want to have their cashless society but it's one that they want to control. So I think this is a giant head fake and Hegelian Dialetic going on here. Even though they cant overtly control the crypto's they can certainly criminalize them and/or impute exorbitant taxation on all the ones except for the government approved for our 'safety' of course. All that being said might as well ride the wave and convert any gains to tangibles. And following my own advice I'm only speculating what I am willing to lose in the process.

    For me even being somewhat technically proficient it was a giant pain in the butt to get this accomplished with problems along the way and for a lot of people they won't think it's worth it probably for a casual end user. Of course if the crypto's keep exploding that may change. Also I've seen some evidence that Coinbase which is the most popular exchange in the US is to bring XRP into it's fold after the first of the year which would allow you to directly buy XRP instead of jumping thru hoops to convert from Bitcoin.
    What is the lake of fire? What is it's purpose? Is the lake of fire eternal hell? Is there any hope of escape for those cast into this lake?
    http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hfcomms View Post
    For me even being somewhat technically proficient it was a giant pain in the butt to get this accomplished with problems along the way and for a lot of people they won't think it's worth it probably for a casual end user. Of course if the crypto's keep exploding that may change. Also I've seen some evidence that Coinbase which is the most popular exchange in the US is to bring XRP into it's fold after the first of the year which would allow you to directly buy XRP instead of jumping thru hoops to convert from Bitcoin.
    Some places have Bitcoin ATMs where you can buy them directly for cash, last I knew. Even sell them likewise.

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