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GOV/MIL Stranger things in the Republican tax bill
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  1. #1
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    Stranger things in the Republican tax bill

    Published time: 2 Dec, 2017 23:37
    Edited time: 3 Dec, 2017 07:57
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    Stranger things in the Republican tax bill
    © Jonathan Ernst / Reuters
    The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act passed in the Senate in the early hours of Saturday now has to be combined with the House version passed in November to make a final law.

    The Senate bill grants tax breaks to corporations and the wealthy, with the middle class set to get some reward, too, albeit smaller and more time-limited. But after lengthy debate and frenzied last-minute alterations, some of its provisions can seem a bit out there at first glance, while others have little to do with actual tax.

    Hallelujah! Churches can canvas for politicians

    The tax plan seeks to repeal the 1954 Johnson Amendment, which bans churches and other non-profits from carrying out political activism. This would allow religious organizations to support a candidate while still keeping their tax-exempt status. This could make churches a powerful force of influence in politics, and opens up the risk of “sham churches” being formed to funnel money to candidates, the New York Times reports. Trump promised to do this on the campaign trail, and it has been opposed by some religious leaders.

    Dead rich people can pass on more wealth

    The House version of the tax bill wants to get rid of the estate tax altogether, the portion of dead person’s wealth that is taxed when it is being passed onto their children. The Senate bill wants to double the amount of money parents can pass on without being taxed to $11 million. This is a major tax break for the likes of Trump, his family and their fellow wealthy friends.

    Unborn child protection

    The Senate bill has a sneaky pro-life provision dressed as a tax break for parents. The provision states that parents can use tax-free college saving plans for a “child in utero,” which the provision explains means “an unborn child means a child in utero.” However, parents are already able to use college savings accounts for children that haven’t been born yet, they simply switch the benefactor’s name to their child’s once it is born. This addition specifically refers to, and defines, the “unborn child,” which critics say is a way to strengthen the pro-life movement.

    Drilling the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge

    A very non-tax related addition to the Senate bill was squeezed in that would open the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge to drilling. This is a goal of Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski, who may have promised her vote for the provision being added in.

    Private jet tax break

    Possibly the most unappetizing aspect of the bill is the tax break for private jet owners. The provision would exempt aircraft owners from taxes on the "maintenance and support of the aircraft owner's aircraft or flights on the aircraft owner's aircraft."

    The IRS places an excise tax on each flight an aircraft makes. The bill seeks to make maintenance, fuel and other support costs of running a private plane exempt from the excise tax.

    Bad news for Gulf Airlines

    Foreign airlines such as Qatar Airways, Etihad and Emirates will face corporate tax for landing in US airspace, ending a tax exemption for the airlines. The provision applies to airlines with headquarters in countries where the US does not have a tax treaty, and where US airlines don’t land in that country more than twice a week.

    The airline provision was added by Sen. Johnny Isakson of Georgia, who the Intercept reports is a major beneficiary of campaign donations from Delta Airlines, which of course could gain a competitive edge if its foreign rivals face extra taxes.

    https://www.rt.com/usa/411760-republ...-bill-secrets/
    Proud Infidel...............and Cracker

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  2. #2
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    Has anybody actually read the whole thing? I had read that small corporations won't receive the same tax breaks that large ones will receive. Is that true?

  3. #3
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    Probably another Pelosi ObamaCare cluster f_ck

    Our loser legislators have to pass it before they read it

  4. #4
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    I hate riders, I think it should be mandatory that all bills are stand alone.

    I've also heard that small businesses will be under a much more cumbersome tax burden with this bill.
    Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is Liberty. II Cor. 3:17

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flippper View Post
    I hate riders, I think it should be mandatory that all bills are stand alone.

    I've also heard that small businesses will be under a much more cumbersome tax burden with this bill.
    Yes, stand alone bills that are no more than 5 pages and are written in easy to understand language!
    “What the government is good at is collecting taxes, taking away your freedoms and killing people. It’s not good at much else.” — Author Tom Clancy

  6. #6
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    If so then we will see a lot of small businesses that have been hanging on just for Trump go under. My husband and I can't take any more taxes. We aren't keeping our heads above water very much any more but still pay most of our profits to taxes. If so this will ruin us. I pray it's wrong.



    Quote Originally Posted by Flippper View Post
    I hate riders, I think it should be mandatory that all bills are stand alone.

    I've also heard that small businesses will be under a much more cumbersome tax burden with this bill.

  7. #7
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    I admit that I haven't looked at the difference between the house and senate version but will make this prediction: The dhimmis will find a way to derail any bill that Trump can sign. Unless Trump and the Rinos roll over with their bellies in the air like an old dog, we'll see a goobermint shut-down before Christmas. I hope Trump calls their bluff and lets the whole worthless bunch turn off the lights in DC.
    Last edited by Luddite; 12-04-2017 at 05:35 AM.
    "You are allowed to be disappointed but not surprised"

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Luddite View Post
    I admit that I haven't looked at the difference between the house and senate version but will make this prediction: The dhimmis will find a way to derail any bill that Trump can sign. Unless Trump and the Rinos roll over with their bellies in the air like an old dog, we'll see a goobermint shut-down before Christmas. I hope Trump calls their bluff and lets the whole worthless bunch turns off the lights in DC.
    This is what I want for Christmas!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by OldCraftsman View Post
    This is what I want for Christmas!
    What a wonderful thought.....

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by brokenwings View Post
    Has anybody actually read the whole thing? I had read that small corporations won't receive the same tax breaks that large ones will receive. Is that true?
    Nobody has read it because they are still writing it and no final version has been passed

  11. #11
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    Estate tax

    Ok, just my opinion on this, but:
    The rich already have the means to get around the estate tax. as an example, in order to avoid paying taxes, a friends mother had her son on all of her accounts long before her death. The only tax he had to pay was on some Hummel figurines she had. As far as I can see, it's the middle class that really gets hit with the big estate tax bills. IMHO getting rid of the estate tax will help the rich, a little, but will help us commoners a lot more.

    I see a lot of complaints in the press about how much it's for the rich, but as far as I can tell, that's being driven by the liberals to push the anti-Trump and anti-GOP movement to make points with voters; the rich liberals don't need the provision as they already mostly get around the tax anyway.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Millwright View Post
    Dead rich people can pass on more wealth

    The House version of the tax bill wants to get rid of the estate tax altogether, the portion of dead person’s wealth that is taxed when it is being passed onto their children. The Senate bill wants to double the amount of money parents can pass on without being taxed to $11 million. This is a major tax break for the likes of Trump, his family and their fellow wealthy friends.
    I'm glad to see this. The amount previously allowed to pass down from a dead parent to a child was something around $5M. That's not a lot, especially if you consider small -to-medium business owners. Even Joe Salatin, the infamous sustainable farmer in Virginia, talked about this in one of his books. He and his wife spent a lifetime building a beautiful, sustainable farm and business worth $3M or so. Under the previous law, he would not be able to pass it down to his children without them paying a fortune in inheritance tax. That's just ridiculous. We know several business owners whose net worth is in the $5M range, and it's ludicrous to think that after a lifetime of hard work, they can't pass the business down to their children without a huge tax burden. This law doesn't just benefit "the Trumps" of the country. A few million isn't that much these days in the grand scheme of things, and it shouldn't be taxed if passed down to children.

  13. #13
    Since the estate tax, IIRC, is about 45% of the total passed to heirs, many small businesses/family farms had to be sold just to pay this. That's certainly not a help to the economy, now is it?

    Brokenwings - we still don't know yet what will get passed re: LLCs, Partnerships and S-Corps. There's significant difference between the versions passed in the House and the Senate. The Senate version looked a lot more favorable for us "little guys" versus the big corps.

  14. #14
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    Joel Salatin is wrong.

    Under current law, when someone dies the estate owes taxes on the value of assets transferred to heirs above $5.5 million for individuals, $11 million for couples. The Senate bill doubles those limits but does not repeal the tax. The House bill initially doubles the limits and then repeals the entire tax after 2023.

  15. #15
    https://cis.org/Ting/Tax-Cuts-Bill-G...paign=addtoany


    Yet another reason this socialist bill is bad (besides raising my taxes and lowering home value).

    Tax Cuts Bill Gives Welfare to Illegal Aliens

  16. #16
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    I wish they could do each provision separately, separate vote for each. Then they'd know that they'd be on record and perhaps not so much slipping stuff in. the writing in the margins of the tax bill just passed by the Senate is amazing. It's not amazing because of what it says, it's amazing because they actually handwrote stuff in the margins before passage; hardly anybody knows what's been done.

    The real skullduggery happens in the conference committee. Just before Christmas is the traditional time for that; when the electorate is distracted.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerJohn View Post
    I wish they could do each provision separately, separate vote for each. Then they'd know that they'd be on record and perhaps not so much slipping stuff in. the writing in the margins of the tax bill just passed by the Senate is amazing. It's not amazing because of what it says, it's amazing because they actually handwrote stuff in the margins before passage; hardly anybody knows what's been done.

    The real skullduggery happens in the conference committee. Just before Christmas is the traditional time for that; when the electorate is distracted.
    Reminds me of Obamacare. And most budget bills. Remember the DEMS changed the locks on committee rooms so GOP members could not even listen to their debate on Obamacare.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo View Post
    Reminds me of Obamacare. And most budget bills. Remember the DEMS changed the locks on committee rooms so GOP members could not even listen to their debate on Obamacare.
    In June and July 2009, with Democrats in charge, the Senate health committee spent nearly 60 hours over 13 days marking up the bill that became the Affordable Care Act. That September and October, the Senate Finance Committee worked on the legislation for eight days — its longest markup in two decades. It considered more than 130 amendments and held 79 roll-call votes. The full Senate debated the health care bill for 25 straight days before passing it on Dec. 24, 2009.

    Are you referring to one of those hearings? Which one?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millwright View Post
    Dead rich people can pass on more wealth

    The House version of the tax bill wants to get rid of the estate tax altogether, the portion of dead person’s wealth that is taxed when it is being passed onto their children. The Senate bill wants to double the amount of money parents can pass on without being taxed to $11 million. This is a major tax break for the likes of Trump, his family and their fellow wealthy friends.
    That is a popular talking point for the ones wanting to start a class war. When you take into account the net worth of a large-scale farm, you would be surprised. When you add the value of the land, machinery, improvements, livestock and other emblements, it doesn't take long to reach into the millions. Also look at moderately successful businessmen such as car dealerships or agricultural/construction/mining equipment . Their inventory value can be in the millions too - and that's even before you add in the value of the land and shops (if owned, not leased).

  20. #20
    Senate Altered Tax Reform to Help Illegal Aliens Claim Child Tax Credit

    Evidence emerged Monday, as Republicans celebrated the Senate’s passage of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, that small changes were made in the Senate to the bill’s language, which would allow illegal aliens to continue to claim the child tax credit.

    Preventing the use of this important credit by illegals was a priority for some of the Republican tax reform plan’s most ardent supporters. Under existing law, one does not need a Social Security Number (SSN) to claim the benefit but can substitute an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN), as illegal aliens frequently do.

    Rep. Luke Messer (R-IN) made sure that a fix to this long-standing discrepancy was included in the House version of the tax bill. When the bill came out of chairman Kevin Brady’s (R-TX) House Ways and Means Committee, it included the language Messer originally inserted, demanding a credit claimant include “the taxpayer’s Social Security number on the return of tax for such taxable year.” This language would have blocked illegal aliens, who lack real SSNs, from claiming the lucrative benefit.

    Yet when the Senate marked up the bill, the language was tweaked to allow some illegals to continue to claim the benefit. The text of the version the Senate eventually passed reads, “No credit shall be allowed under this section to a taxpayer with respect to any qualifying child unless the taxpayer includes the name and Social Security number of such qualifying child on the return of tax for the taxable year” (emphasis added).

    The difference is not mere semantics. Many illegal aliens have children with SSNs. This includes the U.S.-born children of illegals, commonly known as “anchor babies,” alien children who have U.S. permanent residency, and so-called “Dreamers,” who, while themselves illegal aliens, have SSNs due to former President Barack Obama’s “Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals” (DACA) executive amnesty scheme.

    Who exactly is responsible for the change is unclear. Multiple House sources were adamant that the change was conceived entirely on the Senate side. At least one pro-amnesty Republican, Sen. Jeff Flake (R-AZ), was at the bargaining table demanding concessions for illegal aliens as a condition of supporting the tax cut bill, but there is no indication the change in child tax credit language was a concession he or those of similar inclination extracted.

    Those in the House Republican majority who acted to fix the child tax credit in the first place expressed a willingness to oppose the Senate’s alterations in the upcoming conference on the bill.

    “The House bill requires a SSN in order to claim the child tax credit. Members will work to address this in conference to protect against fraud in this credit,” a Ways and Means spokesperson told Breitbart News.

    “We can’t continue to reward people who come to our country illegally while those who work hard and play by the rules struggle to get ahead,” Messer, the author of the original language, told Breitbart New. “I was encouraged when President Trump included our legislation in his budget request to Congress, and I’m working to get it included in the final tax cut plan.”

    The child tax credit is an important tax break for middle and working class Americans and is unavailable to individual filers who make more than $75,000 or married filers earning more than $110,000 a year.

    The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act of 1996 (PRWOA) expressly provides that illegal aliens are “not eligible for any Federal public benefit.” But as Jan Ting of the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) has explained at length, this benefit has continued to be available to illegals because the IRS has interpreted the ambiguity of the language of the current tax code to make no distinction between U.S. citizens and legal residents and claimants who have no right to be in the United States. A 2011 Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration reportsuggests credits like these are putting billions of dollars in the hands of illegals. It was this situation that led to Messer and others attempting to fix the loophole.

    CIS’s Ting, a law professor, sounded the alarm Monday that the Senate version had stepped drastically away from the House intent to keep the child tax credit from illegal aliens. Asked by Breitbart News if there was any plausible motive in the Senate’s change in language other than to benefit illegal aliens, Ting replied, “It’s a mystery to me. Why should we funnel taxpayer dollars to illegal aliens?”

    Notably, even the Senate version’s language is an improvement*to the existing law in keeping federal benefits from illegals. Under the altered version, at least illegal aliens with illegal alien children who are not covered by DACA will be unable to claim the child tax credit.

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...ld-tax-credit/

    Here's the type of fraud this credit allows. Illegals come into the US get tons of benefits then tax time comes around and they claim dozens of dependents and end up paying no taxes or they get refunds on money they didn't pay into the system. Huge scam in which the offenders are almost never caught. Article below is just one of thousands of examples. 23,994 refunds to one Atlanta address and not a single conviction resulted.


    IRS sent $46 million in tax refunds to an (one) Atlanta address

    ATLANTA (CBS46) - Jun 24, 2013

    The Internal Revenue Service is under fire again for sending $46.3 million dollars in tax refunds to one address in Atlanta, according to a 2012 Treasury Inspector General audit now gaining renewed attention through social media.

    The audit report blamed IRS management for ignoring a tax loophole that allowed individuals to defraud the government.

    "It's ludicrous," said Darrell Bell of Marietta. "How do you miss something like that? That's crazy."

    Auditors reviewed how the IRS gives individual tax identification numbers (ITIN) to individuals who are not eligible for social security numbers. ITINs are supposed to be assigned to nonresidents or residents who are not authorized to work in the United States. But the audit found the verification process for ITIN applications was lax, tax fraud was undetectable and managers eliminated processes that weeded out successful processes used to identify potential fraud patterns and schemes. Complaints by IRS employees alleged management removed those processes to increase the volume of applications that can be processed.

    The report reads, "there is no assurance that ITINs are not being assigned to individuals submitting questionable applications."

    The ITINs allow immigrants to file tax returns. Recent reports show some immigrants have received tax refunds by fraudulently claiming child tax credits.

    In the most egregious case, the IRS sent 23,994 tax refunds totaling $46,378,040 to one address in Atlanta. The report did not reveal the address.

    But the report shows Atlanta may be the hotbed for this type of fraud.

    Of the ten most frequently used addresses for ITIN tax refunds, four are in Atlanta.

    According to a 2012 letter written by IRS Wage and Investment Division Commissioner, Peggy Bogadi, the service is addressing the problem and implementing new procedures.

    http://www.cbs46.com/story/22674743/...#ixzz50RdRbMlo

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacajawea View Post
    Since the estate tax, IIRC, is about 45% of the total passed to heirs, many small businesses/family farms had to be sold just to pay this. That's certainly not a help to the economy, now is it?
    No, but it sure helps big AG operators pick up farmland at sometimes "must sell" prices.


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