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USA What I saw yesterday in Charlottesville
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  1. #1
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    What I saw yesterday in Charlottesville

    I am not a writer but will do the best I can. I arrived about 10:30ish. Was actually surprised that I was able to find a parking space relatively close to Lee Park. In fact I thought that perhaps the turnout wouldn't be as big as I was anticipating because I didn't see much at first and I was only 5 blocks from ground zero but I was wrong. By the time I had walked one block toward the park the police presence was strong. Many in riot type gear. They had most streets and walkways blocked off funneling everyone into two or three entrances to ground zero. As I got closer to the park you could feel the tension. The Antifa presence was strong as was BLM. Didn't see many 'alt-righters' till I got to the park. (One note here - I think some people were there just to watch. It also wasn't always clear who was who.)

    E Market St was the only way the police were allowing entrance to the park. The park is not huge. I'm guessing, but maybe 1.5 acres or so. It also is on a mound/hill so you have take steps up from Market St to get to it. There are two sets of steps up to the park from Market St. I was coming from the south. The northern entrance was for those protesting the removal of the statue and had been cordoned off as best they could. The southern entrance was for everyone else although most people in the park were statue removal protesters (alt-right). As I got to the park the crowds were already pretty thick. The northern entrance had some priest/religious figure locking arms with antifa and blocking the entrance. The rhetoric and name calling was heavy from both sides. By the time I got to the park it was maybe 10:45 with the event slated to start @ noon. It looked to me there were about 300-400 alt-righters up top at the park and maybe 1000 -1500 others on the street being a mixture of the left and right but mostly left. By noon I would say the total number of people on all sides had swelled to 4-5,000. I position myself at the southern entrance on top of a retaining wall alongside 3 or 4 reporters/photographers. There were plenty of BLM signs, African Flags & various left supporting banners/flags. Of course many signs spouting about hatred and Nazi's too. The right had many Confederate Flags, various state flags & US flags, A Few Don't Tread On Me and a couple I didn't recognize. I've seen some pictures that show a few Nazi Flags/armbands but I didn't see them. Not saying there weren't there but again I didn't see them.

    About 11:10 or so a group of about 50-75 statue supporters were making their way down Market street toward the park from the South. As they approached the southern entrance to the park is when the first violence started. Bottles of water, balloons of paint and bags of urine were thrown at them from the crowd. When that happen the shoving started, fist were flying and people hitting each other with sticks. Of course the right stood up for themselves. Now I'm not saying some on the right wouldn't be violent anyway BUT I can say for a fact they didn't start it. Also the police did nothing to quell the violence. Once it started it went on for at least 30-40 minutes or more with crap flying every which way. Also within this 30 + minutes a second group of about the same size also made there way down the street and this just exacerbated the chaos.

    In looking at the pictures I took I see there aren't really any during this timeframe. I also wish I had taken more overall but all I know is if you weren't looking up and paying attention you were liable to be hit. Crap was being thrown in all directions but in a general direction without care to where it landed. I myself stopped 6 bottles coming in my direction, one from hitting the photographer next to me in the head.

    As we approached noon the violence and shouting was prevalent. At this point the police started making the announcement on a bullhorn that the alt-right was having what had been declared an illegal gathering and that they must disperse or be arrested. They did nothing to contain nor restrain the left only the right. The right, who had legally obtain a permit to be there. They complied which I not sure if I was in charge I would have done, but that is another story. After this, while things continued to be chaotic people became more spread out and violence started to dissipate. As a side note I didn't see the vehicle thing.

    I've never been in the middle of something like this. I found it fascinating & unnerving at the same time. In a split second things can escalate.

    You can say what you want about those that were present on the right. They were there to speak to the removal of that statue and history. The MSM and politicians are railing on about the hatred and violence from the 'white supremacist' yesterday? But the left was full of vitriol & had no problem with violence even though you'd never know it from the press. I am not saying those on the right were all boy scouts but they had a right to be there and to have their right protected to assemble. Had the left not been there I am relatively certain no violence would have happened.



















    Last edited by Altura Ct.; 08-13-2017 at 07:46 AM.
    "Property must be sacred or liberty cannot exist"

  2. #2
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    Excellent eyewitness report.
    Thanks for sharing.

    Carlysle

  3. #3
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    Interesting how many have hard hats or bike helmets on. Guess at least some were planning on something!
    yarnball

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    Psalms 118:24

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    It is way different for which ever side has the full backing of the press and media.

  5. #5
    You have more guts than I do!

    This is terrible. This is not America....it's amerika.
    "Why not stay awake now? Who wants to sleep now with so much happening, so much to see? Life used to be dull you see...and you don't have to sleep alone, you don't even have to sleep at all; and so, all you have to do is show the stick to the dog now and then and say, 'Thank God for nothing.'"

    Drusilla, "The UNVANQUISHED. William Faulkner

  6. #6
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    Good report


    Still waiting to hear from Vestige...
    Proud Infidel...............and Cracker

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    Deplorable


  7. #7
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    How could y'all tell one another apart?
    "America is at that awkward stage, to late to work within the system, but to early to shoot the bastards"-- Claire Wolfe

  8. #8
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    Great Report! It reinforced my conclusions to date:

    The Radical Left started the fight. The Police did little to stop it. Some elements of Neo-Nazis were no doubt trying to hijack the issues of revising history and removing statues to enhance their recruitment. Very little or none of the Trump Coalition will take the bait. And none of the Trump Coalition will believe the crap on the MSM at the moment.
    The longer you can hold out,
    the better your chances.

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  9. #9
    Thank you for your report sir!
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hognutz View Post
    How could y'all tell one another apart?
    To be sure it wasn't always clear but the signs helped, plus many/most on the left were hippie types with dreadlocks and rainbow clothes plus most on the left segregated themselves toward the street and how and where the rhetoric was being thrown. Sometimes hard to tell but in general left/right stood out.
    "Property must be sacred or liberty cannot exist"

  11. #11
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    Wow. I would be positively SPOOKED to have been at such a gathering.

    I am not a police equine trained to experience such melee.

    And yours a first hand report you'll NEVER SEE on Mainstream Media.

    Such is the power of the Internet.

    Dobbin
    I hinnire propter hoc ecce ego

  12. #12
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    Many thanks for your report.

    Good to see you were not involved in any scuffles.
    A 1965 To The Present Dime Is Worth $.10 Today.
    A 1964 To The Present Dollar Bill Is Worth $1.00 Today.
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  13. #13
    Altura, did you see the incident where the car drove into the crowd?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoanD777 View Post
    Altura, did you see the incident where the car drove into the crowd?
    I did not.
    "Property must be sacred or liberty cannot exist"

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoanD777 View Post
    Altura, did you see the incident where the car drove into the crowd?
    In his post:

    As a side note I didn't see the vehicle thing.
    The longer you can hold out,
    the better your chances.

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  16. #16
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    and then theres this

    ‘many sides’ of injustice in Charlottesville riot: Paradkar
    7/19

    Toronto Star
    Shree Paradkar - Columnist
    Rushed 'becoming a woman'
    Editor’s note: The opinions in this article are the author’s, as published by our content partner, and do not necessarily represent the views of MSN or Microsoft.

    Evelyn Hockstein/Washington Post Ben, a 21-year-old KKK member attends Saturday's rally at Emancipation Park in Charlottesville, Virginia.

    This is it, then.
    We can officially drop the pretence of equality after violent protests by white supremacists, “heritage” groups, neo-Nazis, KKK members and armed white terrorists slammed that charade this weekend.
    Their racism was effectively endorsed by the United States president when he failed to call out supremacists, anti-Semites, xenophobes and homophobes and instead rebuked the “egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides.”
    On many sides. Which sides would those be, Mr. President, when there were just two: white racists. And anti-white racists.
    Donald Trump wants to “study it,” he said, “to see how such things can happen.” He might want to start with studying the “many sides” of injustice at play.
    Take a moment to think about what these people were protesting as they marched through the University of Virginia campus Friday night carrying torches and breaking into fisticuffs. And again, whey they showed up Saturday morning, waving confederate and Nazi flags, carrying semi-automatic weapons, helmets, spears and shields, throwing punches, water bottles and spraying chemicals. A car plowed through counter-protesters flinging bodies in the air, killing one person and injuring dozens.

    These savage people were not protesting white lives lost to police brutality. They were not protesting disproportionate incarceration of white people, or stricter sentencing than people of other races, or being denied housing or education for the colour of their skin. They were not protesting any of that because it is not their reality.

    They were not protesting. Period.
    They were rioting.
    Their tempers were inflamed by the possibility of the removal of a statue of Civil war era Confederate general Robert E. Lee. The city council voted for the removal in April, but it is pending litigation.
    Not only was Lee the general who led a war to defend the ownership of Black people as property, he was also one of its more cruel enforcers — breaking up families and hiring them to other plantations, ordering the enslaved to be whipped and brine poured on their backs, as detailed in an eye-opening profile in the Atlantic in June.
    The Saturday protesters had gathered at Emancipation Park, the new name of what was once Lee Park, where the statue stands.
    Jason Kessler, a right-wing blogger, told media the protests were also about free speech and “advocating for white people.”
    This, they believed, entitled them to chant things such as “White power,” “White Lives Matter,” “You will not replace us” and “Jew will not replace us.”
    It was a mind-boggling show of white fragility, by people threatened not because their rights are being trampled by any measurable means but because a few voices of those they historically oppressed are starting to be heard again.
    Where were the police ominously beating back protesters in the numbers they did in Ferguson, in Chicago, in Charlotte, in Baltimore, in Cleveland among other places when Black people protested deaths at the hands of police? Where are the calls for white people to denounce this disgusting display of hate in their name? Why is the driver of the car that plowed into people not being called a terrorist? Will we now ask that white people be the eyes and ears on the front lines of white hatred?
    Remember Mark Hughes, the armed Black man called a suspect by Dallas police during protests in July last year? They called him a suspect even as he was helping them evacuate people and they did not take down their tweet with his photo even after it was established he was innocent.
    In this gathering, white men armed to the teeth roam freely, with the privilege of knowing their rights will be protected.

    The flags they were waving signify death and devastation to significant groups of Americans. Yet, they were allowed because, democracy. Would these democratic rights be granted to anyone wanting to wave the equally reprehensible Daesh (ISIS) flags?

    Trump, a normally avid tweeter who releases foreign policy details in 140 characters, was silent until later in the day when he tweeted out a vague denunciation of the events and gave his insipid speech.
    In all fairness, his blandness was not a surprise. Why would he disavow his friends?
    Former KKK “imperial wizard” David Duke said, “This (protest) represents a turning point. We are determined to take our country back. We are going to fulfil the promises of Donald Trump. That’s why we voted for Donald Trump.”

    Not all Trump’s buddies were pleased with his speech, though. Richard Spencer, the founder of the “Alt-Right” hate group, who was not shot at, not beaten, not punched, but maced by police, was miffed.

    “Trump should not have praised the state and local police,’ he tweeted. “They did the opposite of their job. Total disaster.”

    Total disaster. Never thought I’d agree with anything that revolting man said.

    Shree Paradkar writes about discrimination and identity. You can follow her @shreeparadkar

    and not 5 min from when I copied this. I cant find the address line or even the post/

    still looking. will post addy when I find
    Last edited by zeker; 08-13-2017 at 08:42 AM. Reason: looking for post

  17. #17
    How sad that the police refused to maintain order.

    It seems to me that when police departments across this country are faced with a choice of stopping the leftist violence or allowing the leftist violence to continue unchallenged by civil authority they choose to stand down.

    Are they really so afraid of the leftist media or of being sued by leftist organizations that they simply refuse to make any attempt to maintain order? Or have they chosen a side?
    The stakes in conflict do not change. Battle determines who will control the wealth or its equivalent. - Frank Herbert

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  19. #19
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    I'm shocked that there was no gunfire

  20. #20
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    mistaken1

    I,m not convinced that police have not been ordered to stand down

    I cant see many cops not wanting to get in there and 'spread the word of Jesus'

    but when they are ordered to stand down.. they have little choice.

    cant say this is whats happening here.. but it has happened before.

    many times

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Olson View Post
    I'm shocked that there was no gunfire
    The genie would be out of the bottle on that.


    he will be one mugly uther
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  22. #22
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    Thank you Altura. Glad you are safe.
    Don't just go to church. BE THE CHURCH!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Olson View Post
    I'm shocked that there was no gunfire
    next party

    this was just another dry run to see how hard the push needs to be

  24. #24
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    From your description, they were corralled. Herd cattle and then spook them response.

  25. #25
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    I notice the "alt-right" have cardboard signs (like they actually made them themselves) and the BLM crowd suspiciously is holding the same size signs with the same font and coloring, even though they all say different things. I can't make out what they all say but can tell they're different. One says "black lives matter", another one "jobs not rasicm" there's at least five different sayings. Notice they're all white signs with black font and red across the top and bottom. Those red, black and green "black lives matter" signs look mighty professional too. I'm guessing everyone was handed one of these professionally made signs as they got off one of many busses that brought them from out of state to protest.

  26. #26
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    Thanks Altura for a great report. One of the few factual ones out there.

    This whole thing had the smell of a setup from the gitgo.
    The alt left far outnumbered the alt right. The legal permit for the march being cancelled right before the march began, and the police being given stand down orders once it was apparent the the marchers were vastly outnumbered by the left.

    The march was poorly organized, had very poor discipline, lacked it's own security/discipline unit, and was just not equipped to deal with a combined leftist, and government and media opposition.
    5,000 marchers showing up with Bibles and candles instead of torches and white power emblems and Hitler quotes on T-shirts would have been much better. The group did not have it's own rules and internal discipline and as a result a few radical A-holes stole the show and gave the media the hateful target they were looking for. The car thing, whether is was staged or not, sealed the doom of the march. Not only did the marchers lose the fight, they lost the sympathy of the majority of American viewers who watched on biased TV stations across the country and in many countries around the world.

    Lesson for the future. Learn from the left how to do protest marches.
    Enforce your own internal discipline. Get rid of anyone with white power or nazi symbols. Have your own photographers and videographers. Have your own live-streaming internet channel.
    Have your own intelligent people in the group who are able to speak well and represent the event. Have your own lawyers and media spokespeople. Have some innocent looking moms and even children in the group. Learn how to manipulate the police and counter protesters to cast the town government and the left in a bad light while making your own group look innocent and attacked unfairly.
    Have enforcers and PR people scattered among your group.
    And damn sure have a bigger group than what was present yesterday.

    I could go on and on, but it is obvious that we are just not in the same class as the left when it comes to marches and protests. To use a well worn analogy. They are playing chess while we still haven't figured out tick tac toe. We need the equivalent of a right wing G Soros.

    Also that idiot in the car, has made life impossible for Trump
    Last edited by TerryK; 08-13-2017 at 09:47 AM.
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  27. #27
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    Thank you for being our eyes and ears at this event.
    Qui tacet consentire videtur

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by mistaken1 View Post
    How sad that the police refused to maintain order.

    It seems to me that when police departments across this country are faced with a choice of stopping the leftist violence or allowing the leftist violence to continue unchallenged by civil authority they choose to stand down.

    Are they really so afraid of the leftist media or of being sued by leftist organizations that they simply refuse to make any attempt to maintain order? Or have they chosen a side?
    The mayor and gov ordered them to stand down, just like in Berkeley.
    Asato Ma Sad Gama - leave illusion, come to the truth
    Tamasi Ma Jyotir Gama - leave the darkness, come to the light

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  29. #29
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    Excellent reporting; one of the boards best boots on-the-ground report

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Be Well View Post
    The mayor and gov ordered them to stand down, just like in Berkeley.
    If you are told to stand down - why not - brazenly admit it?

    And if you are told to stand down - why even show up?

    To me it makes it look like the police are a bunch of left wing sissies.

    Stupid beyond understanding IMO by protecting the very side that hates your guts.

    Are they all that stupid do you suppose?

    Not saying you are the spokesman for the liberal police.

    Sorry if you though so.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Be Well View Post
    The mayor and gov ordered them to stand down, just like in Berkeley.
    Surely there will be a leak from one of the police involved, maybe even irrefutable documentation. The officers can not all be clueless as to what went down.

    And they can not all be leftist sympathizers.
    The longer you can hold out,
    the better your chances.

    Sauron sleeps no more.

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Coulter View Post
    If you are told to stand down - why not - brazenly admit it?

    And if you are told to stand down - why even show up?

    To me it makes it look like the police are a bunch of left wing sissies.

    Stupid beyond understanding IMO by protecting the very side that hates your guts.

    Are they all that stupid do you suppose?

    Not saying you are the spokesman for the liberal police.

    Sorry if you though so.
    Also, the police chief in any city is usually if not always (don't know every city) hired/appointed by the mayor. So there may be good cops in a dept - but the chief may be a lefitzi, and the mayor. In this case, the mayor is a flaming leftzi and the gov. they are pieces of s***. For a cop to disobey orders is a firing offense. So ALL the cops would have to go against the chief of police and mayor and gov. Anyway, the DoJ is already on this and it will be verrrrrrry interesting what they find.
    Asato Ma Sad Gama - leave illusion, come to the truth
    Tamasi Ma Jyotir Gama - leave the darkness, come to the light

    You may not be interested in Islam
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  33. #33
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    Also that idiot in the car, has made life impossible for Trump
    Nah, Trump just has to wait a bit and state the truth as it is being presented here.
    And as long as the Trump Coalition sees through the lies we shall continue on as we have been until they remove Trump from office. Then we go to war.
    The longer you can hold out,
    the better your chances.

    Sauron sleeps no more.

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Medical Maven View Post
    Great Report! It reinforced my conclusions to date:

    The Radical Left started the fight. The Police did little to stop it. Some elements of Neo-Nazis were no doubt trying to hijack the issues of revising history and removing statues to enhance their recruitment. Very little or none of the Trump Coalition will take the bait. And none of the Trump Coalition will believe the crap on the MSM at the moment.
    THIS !!!

    Based on what little I saw on TV, I had the same impression.

    If the "counter protestors", antifa, BLM, etc had not shown up, it all would have been pretty much a non event, and three people would still be alive, and others uninjured. With the Gov, VA is obviously shifting left.

    Thanks for the report.

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by hiwall View Post
    It is way different for which ever side has the full backing of the press and media.

    Yes, it is quite obvious

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Olson View Post
    I'm shocked that there was no gunfire

    Agree !! I was expecting that last night. I am glad there was not any.

    This is not going to end.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistaken1 View Post
    How sad that the police refused to maintain order.

    It seems to me that when police departments across this country are faced with a choice of stopping the leftist violence or allowing the leftist violence to continue unchallenged by civil authority they choose to stand down.

    Are they really so afraid of the leftist media or of being sued by leftist organizations that they simply refuse to make any attempt to maintain order? Or have they chosen a side?
    Their bosses in all the cities are leftists-who are never impartial. The police either follow the orders or lose their jobs. Leftists NEVER NEVER "play fair" so any fight against leftists will lose unless it goes BRUTAL.
    Ring the bells that still can ring
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  38. #38
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    http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...stigation-into


    Justice Department opens civil-rights investigation into Charlottesville crash


    The Justice Department has opened up a federal investigation into the deadly events in Charlottesville, Va. on Saturday after a car plowed into a crowd of protestors and left one dead.

    Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced Saturday that a federal civil rights investigation into the incident had been opened.

    “The violence and deaths in Charlottesville strike at the heart of American law and justice. When such actions arise from racial bigotry and hatred, they betray our core values and cannot be tolerated," Sessions said in a statement.

    "I have talked with FBI Director Chris Wray, FBI agents on the scene, and law enforcement officials for the state of Virginia. The FBI has been supporting state and local authorities throughout the day. U.S. Attorney Rick Mountcastle has commenced a federal investigation and will have the full support of the Department of Justice. Justice will prevail.”

    The United States Attorney’s Office for the Western District of Virginia and the Richmond Field Office of the FBI also issued a statement confirming the investigation.

    "The Richmond FBI Field Office, the Civil Rights Division and the US Attorney's Office for the Western District of Virginia have opened a civil rights investigation into the circumstances of the deadly vehicular incident that occured earlier Saturday morning. The FBI will collect all available facts and evidence, and as this is an ongoing investigation we are not able to comment further at this time," the statement read.

    A vehicle plowed through a crowd of protesters in Charlottesville, Va. Saturday after police broke up violent clashes between far-right groups and counter-demonstrators.

    The University of Virginia Health System said 20 people were brought to the hospital Saturday afternoon after the car careened into a group of people protesting near a popular pedestrian mall in the college town. One died and the rest were being assessed and treated for injuries.

    Video posted on social media shows a car careening through the crowd as another vehicle rams into its rear bumper before backing away. In other photos and videos posted online Saturday, people can be seen being treated for injuries.
    True North Strong and Free

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    Altura,

    I'm curious when you left the area. I was traveling yesterday and got a call from a friend that told me that he was told that there was gunfire but the media was told by the local and state government to not report it. He called me around a quarter to five yesterday afternoon.

  40. #40
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    There's a pattern here. The left is organized, subtle and very evil

    The left sends large groups of protesters to confront what they perceive as racism. They are really just puppets and useful idiots organized and bused in by leftist organizations

    During the confrontation the democrat mayor orders the police to stand down.

    The left instigates violence.

    The left controlled media records the violence distorts the facts and uses the lies to blame the right and President Trump.

    The organizers, the puppeteers, are George Soros, the Clintons, Barack Obama, the DNC, and others who want a revolution and civil war so they can have an excuse the scrap the Constitution and install a full fledged socialist government.

    If I was President Trump I would order the Justice Department to investigate all the groups on the left that show up at every disturbance for collusion and conspiracy, and prosecute them and their backers under the RICO laws as organized criminal enterprises.

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