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Grnhouse Warming a Green House for Winter Gardening
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  1. #1
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    Warming a Green House for Winter Gardening

    Looking for ideas for Electricity-free methods to warm a permanate green house structure during the winter, so that a garden inside can flourish (not just survive).

    First ideas:
    1) Painted water tanks to help hold heat overnight.
    2) Compost bin to generate heat (but does it generate problems too?)
    3) Indoor livestock, such as chickens, rabbits, quail, etc.
    Please PM me if interested in a Mutual-Assistance Group in Central Texas

  2. #2
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    Can't wait to see what types of responses you get, when I created the thread/poll to request a garden forum this was all OC was talking about: building and maintaining a small greenhouse! We have enough room on our concrete drive for a 6x6 green house, now how to heat it during the winter months, cool it during the summer, etc.

    We're also interested in those tunnels that a lot of folks here in central Iowa seem to be using, skipping the traditional greenhouse all together. If I can find the video of the one guy and his greenhouse I"ll post it here, yes he was using painted water barrels.
    People are quick to confuse and despise confidence as arrogance but that is common amongst those who have never accomplished anything in their lives and who have always played it safe not willing to risk failure.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by phloydius View Post

    2) Compost bin to generate heat (but does it generate problems too?)
    Wouldn't you have to vent it, think composting toilet, due to the methane a compost pile produces?
    People are quick to confuse and despise confidence as arrogance but that is common amongst those who have never accomplished anything in their lives and who have always played it safe not willing to risk failure.

  4. #4
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    I know the water buckets and barrels painted black work. Use some bricks that absorb heat also. I have a shed with south facing double doors that I use for a greenhouse or a least a place to overwinter plants. I used a couple of clear shower curtains over the door and on cold nights an oil filled electric heater, it's one of those heaters that looks like a radiator.

  5. #5
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    Indoor livestock, such as chickens, rabbits, quail, etc.
    I have always figured this would work. I would bet that if you went to backyardchickens.com and asked you would get rexponxes from others who have tried that. The black barrels do work

  6. #6
    I think its too damp for livestock. I would love to have a fish pond in a geodesic dome greenhouse, though. I also want a large one, so I had better win the lottery or find a long lost gold mine or something.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinecone View Post
    I think its too damp for livestock. I would love to have a fish pond in a geodesic dome greenhouse, though. I also want a large one, so I had better win the lottery or find a long lost gold mine or something.

    I need to find that video of that feller that had the year round green house, he was also raising tilapia in his greenhouse and was feeding them chicken poop from his flock of birds.
    People are quick to confuse and despise confidence as arrogance but that is common amongst those who have never accomplished anything in their lives and who have always played it safe not willing to risk failure.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by packyderms_wife View Post
    Wouldn't you have to vent it, think composting toilet, due to the methane a compost pile produces?

    I do not think so...

    From some random site on Google:
    "Rotting stuff in a landfill undergoes anaerobic decomposition and produces methane. A compost pile undergoes aerobic decomposition and requires oxygen (O2) for the process to work. Because it is exposed to oxygen it produces CO2 (carbon dioxide) instead of methane."
    Please PM me if interested in a Mutual-Assistance Group in Central Texas

  9. #9
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    Google Citrus in the snow. Guy in Nebraska has been growing oranges etc in unheated greenhouse for decades. It's partially buried a couple feet deep, but mainly "heated" by blowing air through 6" underground tubing aka "corrugated plastic drain tile".

    There's another guy in Maine that brings "pre heated air " into his tiny house the same way, so his heater is heating air that is already 50 instead of air that is -40.
    Ring the bells that still can ring
    Forget your perfect offering
    There is a crack, a crack in everything
    That's how the light gets in.

    ("Anthem" by Leonard Cohen)

  10. #10
    Google Citrus in the snow. Guy in Nebraska has been growing oranges etc in unheated greenhouse for decades. It's partially buried a couple feet deep, but mainly "heated" by blowing air through 6" underground tubing aka "corrugated plastic drain tile".
    I've been there - it's amazing. He used to also have a nectarine tree in it, but found that keeping 2 separate zones (as nectarines require a chill period, and citrus doesn't) was too difficult. Very nice and smart man.

    I would think in Tx that painted barrels would work quite well.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbbuddy View Post
    Google Citrus in the snow. Guy in Nebraska has been growing oranges etc in unheated greenhouse for decades. It's partially buried a couple feet deep, but mainly "heated" by blowing air through 6" underground tubing aka "corrugated plastic drain tile".

    There's another guy in Maine that brings "pre heated air " into his tiny house the same way, so his heater is heating air that is already 50 instead of air that is -40.
    That sounds amazing. Will look that up, thank you.
    Please PM me if interested in a Mutual-Assistance Group in Central Texas

  12. #12
    I've done painted thermal mass but I don't do big tanks. I hack hundreds of 1/2 gallon juice bottles. I find it works well. Also double layers if plastic with an air blower keeping an air layer between them.
    Please, come say Hi! and share your experience/knowledge. I love to learn.

    http://survivingtothrivin.blogspot.com/

  13. #13
    I suggest an underground greenhouse, a walapini. Google it. I have a small one I use for starting the plants. I used pressure treated wood for the structure, tin for the walls to hold back the earth, and suntuff panels for the roof. I cover the exposed roof with concrete blankets to insulate on cold nights. On very cold nights.. single digits, I use a small propane heater to keep it warm.

    For me the total cost was about 1000 dollars to build and costs just a couple hundred to run each year. It's 10 x 20. I can start hundreds of plants and grow tropical in summer... this year we are trying ginger. Yep, ginger in zone 4.

  14. #14
    Here is me in the walapini in March of this year... We had 36 inches of snow after this image.
    Attached Images

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanb999 View Post
    I suggest an underground greenhouse, a walapini. Google it. I have a small one I use for starting the plants. I used pressure treated wood for the structure, tin for the walls to hold back the earth, and suntuff panels for the roof. I cover the exposed roof with concrete blankets to insulate on cold nights. On very cold nights.. single digits, I use a small propane heater to keep it warm.

    For me the total cost was about 1000 dollars to build and costs just a couple hundred to run each year. It's 10 x 20. I can start hundreds of plants and grow tropical in summer... this year we are trying ginger. Yep, ginger in zone 4.
    Adding this to my research pile too, thank you.
    Please PM me if interested in a Mutual-Assistance Group in Central Texas

  16. #16
    I would look into solar heat grabbers. Might work for the green house. But I think the barrels will be your best bet.

  17. #17
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    I've been doing black barrels for the last three winters and they do help but not enough. I resorted to a kerosene heater this last year and got another few weeks on both ends of late fall and early spring but still not enough to go through the worst few months. I have designed my greenhouse to include a Rocket Mass heater and have all the supplies needed to build a small one. I want to run the vent pipes under the two walkways inside and vent out the south western corner but I have yet to start it. I keep hoping someone will give me a hand one of these days and if not pretty darn soon I may just attempt it myself!
    "Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food." Hippocrates

    My Music page https://poorboyproductions.bandcamp.com/

    The fact that we have a "Highway To Hell" and a "Stairway To Heaven" says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Vicki View Post
    I've been doing black barrels for the last three winters and they do help but not enough. I resorted to a kerosene heater this last year and got another few weeks on both ends of late fall and early spring but still not enough to go through the worst few months. I have designed my greenhouse to include a Rocket Mass heater and have all the supplies needed to build a small one. I want to run the vent pipes under the two walkways inside and vent out the south western corner but I have yet to start it. I keep hoping someone will give me a hand one of these days and if not pretty darn soon I may just attempt it myself!

    I tried a large coal stove. Rated at 150 thousand btu's The thing I found was a radiant heater doesn't work well in the greenhouse. After trying for a few weeks I got propane convection type heaters. They heat the air and do well with very little propane use... I used about 300 dollars worth to keep my 1500 sq ft greenhouse frost free for 3 months. Don't misunderstand tho.. I only heat it to 50. The heaters lowest setting. Be sure to get one with a temperature setting, most only have a speed control. Like low, medium, and high but they run all the time. The Mr. heater brand has the thermostat, blue flame and the cheap Chinese imports do not. Tho the ad will say temperature adjustable.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by packyderms_wife View Post
    I need to find that video of that feller that had the year round green house, he was also raising tilapia in his greenhouse and was feeding them chicken poop from his flock of birds.
    It's on YouTube under Doomsday Preppers 2012. I can't post a link. I was so impressed with their set up the first time I saw that show.
    I could make it cheaper!!!

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Dinghy View Post
    It's on YouTube under Doomsday Preppers 2012. I can't post a link. I was so impressed with their set up the first time I saw that show.
    Wasn't he in Las Vegas? Year round wouldn't be too difficult in a warm environment.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanb999 View Post
    Wasn't he in Las Vegas? Year round wouldn't be too difficult in a warm environment.
    I just went back to check... they are in Pheonix. Definitely easier there.
    I could make it cheaper!!!

  22. #22
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    People around here use a little woodstove or a kero heater to extend the season. It depends on how warm and what you actually want to grow I guess. Up here, most people are happy to just stave off freezing at night.

    You're in TX, so not nearly as extreme an issue, but here in the far north, it's the day-length that can be the biggest limiting factor. Our days get so darned short so fast in the fall that nothing really wants to do well unless you supplement light - which gets expensive very fast.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinghy View Post
    It's on YouTube under Doomsday Preppers 2012. I can't post a link. I was so impressed with their set up the first time I saw that show.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stanb999 View Post
    Wasn't he in Las Vegas? Year round wouldn't be too difficult in a warm environment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dinghy View Post
    I just went back to check... they are in Pheonix. Definitely easier there.
    No the person I'm thinking of was in a northern state like Wisconsin or Michigan.
    People are quick to confuse and despise confidence as arrogance but that is common amongst those who have never accomplished anything in their lives and who have always played it safe not willing to risk failure.

  24. #24
    The only guy i know of in the north was this guy. He did get a ton of grants. But did the work.

    https://youtu.be/9qZPwBPAqks

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanb999 View Post
    The only guy i know of in the north was this guy. He did get a ton of grants. But did the work.

    https://youtu.be/9qZPwBPAqks



    He's one of the people I'm thinking of. This guy, in the video you posted, has been featured on Growing a Greener World, P. Allen Smith, and several other shows, what he's doing in his community is commendable.
    People are quick to confuse and despise confidence as arrogance but that is common amongst those who have never accomplished anything in their lives and who have always played it safe not willing to risk failure.

  26. #26
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVAwHGiUGZ8

    Published on 5 Jul 2013
    Ben Falk is a permaculture designer based in Moretown, Vermont. In this video, he speaks about different aspects of homesteading and cold weather, notably his wood cook-stove which also heats water, and his compost-powered greenhouse heating system. He also talks about the importance of being engaged with the land around us, and how gardening is just basically awesome!
    People are quick to confuse and despise confidence as arrogance but that is common amongst those who have never accomplished anything in their lives and who have always played it safe not willing to risk failure.

  27. #27
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    I'm still looking for the other video, I wish there was a way we could organize our youtube channels we subscribe to!
    People are quick to confuse and despise confidence as arrogance but that is common amongst those who have never accomplished anything in their lives and who have always played it safe not willing to risk failure.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanb999 View Post
    I tried a large coal stove. Rated at 150 thousand btu's The thing I found was a radiant heater doesn't work well in the greenhouse. After trying for a few weeks I got propane convection type heaters. They heat the air and do well with very little propane use... I used about 300 dollars worth to keep my 1500 sq ft greenhouse frost free for 3 months. Don't misunderstand tho.. I only heat it to 50. The heaters lowest setting. Be sure to get one with a temperature setting, most only have a speed control. Like low, medium, and high but they run all the time. The Mr. heater brand has the thermostat, blue flame and the cheap Chinese imports do not. Tho the ad will say temperature adjustable.
    Appreciate the information Stan. That is a big greenhouse to heat with coal or wood. Mine is only 14 by 24 and I'm still learning the ropes after my fourth year this year. I've planted pretty much every kind of vegetable in there over those years and am getting it narrowed down to what likes to grow in there and what doesn't. Corn is a definate no but herbs, root crops and leafy vegetables are loving it. Potatoes especially and kale. Peppers do well too and tomatoes can hang on a long time come fall. It's certainly is a learning experience and an enjoyable one.

    I will look into the Mr Heater brand and like you am happy to keep the temp at 50 degrees come the cold. I have insulated the heck out of the north side with double pane glass panels and the pro fiberboard with the aluminum sides in front of those facing south. The water barrels sit in front of that and the top of the greenhouse has double plastic with air. I think I will be replacing both plastics this year and wonder if you use Grower supply or have a recommendation for the film?

    Thanks again.

    Vicki
    "Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food." Hippocrates

    My Music page https://poorboyproductions.bandcamp.com/

    The fact that we have a "Highway To Hell" and a "Stairway To Heaven" says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by packyderms_wife View Post


    He's one of the people I'm thinking of. This guy, in the video you posted, has been featured on Growing a Greener World, P. Allen Smith, and several other shows, what he's doing in his community is commendable.
    Love it Packy and dream of doing that someday myself. One never knows right!
    "Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food." Hippocrates

    My Music page https://poorboyproductions.bandcamp.com/

    The fact that we have a "Highway To Hell" and a "Stairway To Heaven" says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by packyderms_wife View Post

    Published on 5 Jul 2013
    Ben Falk is a permaculture designer based in Moretown, Vermont. In this video, he speaks about different aspects of homesteading and cold weather, notably his wood cook-stove which also heats water, and his compost-powered greenhouse heating system. He also talks about the importance of being engaged with the land around us, and how gardening is just basically awesome!
    I can't argue with that. I like him too Packy and can very much relate. Thank you!
    "Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food." Hippocrates

    My Music page https://poorboyproductions.bandcamp.com/

    The fact that we have a "Highway To Hell" and a "Stairway To Heaven" says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers.

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Vicki View Post
    Appreciate the information Stan. That is a big greenhouse to heat with coal or wood. Mine is only 14 by 24 and I'm still learning the ropes after my fourth year this year. I've planted pretty much every kind of vegetable in there over those years and am getting it narrowed down to what likes to grow in there and what doesn't. Corn is a definate no but herbs, root crops and leafy vegetables are loving it. Potatoes especially and kale. Peppers do well too and tomatoes can hang on a long time come fall. It's certainly is a learning experience and an enjoyable one.

    I will look into the Mr Heater brand and like you am happy to keep the temp at 50 degrees come the cold. I have insulated the heck out of the north side with double pane glass panels and the pro fiberboard with the aluminum sides in front of those facing south. The water barrels sit in front of that and the top of the greenhouse has double plastic with air. I think I will be replacing both plastics this year and wonder if you use Grower supply or have a recommendation for the film?

    Thanks again.

    Vicki
    Check greenhousemegastore.com

    Ive found they have the cheapest prices. Also spend the extra to get the diffused anti condensate. It really is better and worth it.

  32. #32
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    Thank you again. I have saved the link and found what I needed. I'll need to go measure the width once again before I can order. Good prices, thanks!
    "Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food." Hippocrates

    My Music page https://poorboyproductions.bandcamp.com/

    The fact that we have a "Highway To Hell" and a "Stairway To Heaven" says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanb999 View Post
    Check greenhousemegastore.com

    Ive found they have the cheapest prices. Also spend the extra to get the diffused anti condensate. It really is better and worth it.
    Well I placed my order a couple of days ago. I should be receiving the film tomorrow or the next day. I got the diffused anti condensate and am pretty excited to get that greenhouse wrapped up once again. I wanted to post to say that I did a lot of checking around even locally for prices and the link you provided was the best deal of all of them. Kudos!
    "Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food." Hippocrates

    My Music page https://poorboyproductions.bandcamp.com/

    The fact that we have a "Highway To Hell" and a "Stairway To Heaven" says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers.

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Vicki View Post
    Well I placed my order a couple of days ago. I should be receiving the film tomorrow or the next day. I got the diffused anti condensate and am pretty excited to get that greenhouse wrapped up once again. I wanted to post to say that I did a lot of checking around even locally for prices and the link you provided was the best deal of all of them. Kudos!
    Your welcome

  35. #35
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    Hey Stan, I think you may want to listen to this video as it's a heads up.

    I am so glad I enjoy growing food and try to be inventive when doing so.

    WHAT THEY WON'T TELL YOU ABOUT THE COMING TOTAL FOOD COLLAPSE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v90Z54Sg8Gg

    Published on Sep 27, 2017

    Researcher David Dubyne from the Adapt 2030 You Tube channel joins me to discuss what's really driving the coming collapse. it's the secret government's don't want to tell their citizens about because nothing can be done to prevent it. It's the grand solar minimum, and the Chinese know it will devastate crops and food production globally which, according to Dubyne, will cause economies around the world to "evaporate due to never ending, escalating food prices and global food shortages." And guess where that will lead us? Dubyne says, "I'm sorry to say, there's not going to be 8 billion people on the planet by 2024."

    "Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food." Hippocrates

    My Music page https://poorboyproductions.bandcamp.com/

    The fact that we have a "Highway To Hell" and a "Stairway To Heaven" says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vicki View Post
    Hey Stan, I think you may want to listen to this video as it's a heads up.

    I am so glad I enjoy growing food and try to be inventive when doing so.

    WHAT THEY WON'T TELL YOU ABOUT THE COMING TOTAL FOOD COLLAPSE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v90Z54Sg8Gg

    Published on Sep 27, 2017

    Researcher David Dubyne from the Adapt 2030 You Tube channel joins me to discuss what's really driving the coming collapse. it's the secret government's don't want to tell their citizens about because nothing can be done to prevent it. It's the grand solar minimum, and the Chinese know it will devastate crops and food production globally which, according to Dubyne, will cause economies around the world to "evaporate due to never ending, escalating food prices and global food shortages." And guess where that will lead us? Dubyne says, "I'm sorry to say, there's not going to be 8 billion people on the planet by 2024."

    Video is 51:27
    People are quick to confuse and despise confidence as arrogance but that is common amongst those who have never accomplished anything in their lives and who have always played it safe not willing to risk failure.

  37. #37
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    Did you watch that Packy? The guy claims there will be no food crops growing from 45 degree latitudes up and the same in the southern hemisphere from 45 degrees down. Growing food indoors has been mentioned by Clif High in previous reports as well. This is about the future solar minimum that has created food shortages throughout history. The collapse of the Ming Dynasty was at the solar minimum with food shortages. All the money they can create can't control rising food prices. If one listened from 40 minutes on it would be enough to understand where the guy is coming from.
    "Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food." Hippocrates

    My Music page https://poorboyproductions.bandcamp.com/

    The fact that we have a "Highway To Hell" and a "Stairway To Heaven" says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vicki View Post
    Did you watch that Packy? The guy claims there will be no food crops growing from 45 degree latitudes up and the same in the southern hemisphere from 45 degrees down. Growing food indoors has been mentioned by Clif High in previous reports as well. This is about the future solar minimum that has created food shortages throughout history. The collapse of the Ming Dynasty was at the solar minimum with food shortages. All the money they can create can't control rising food prices. If one listened from 40 minutes on it would be enough to understand where the guy is coming from.
    there is no future solar minimum, we're are currently IN the solar minimum!
    People are quick to confuse and despise confidence as arrogance but that is common amongst those who have never accomplished anything in their lives and who have always played it safe not willing to risk failure.

  39. #39
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    There is a Mennonite farm in the area with a few plastic hoop houses they use to propagate plants in, lots of flowers, some vegetable starts and a few herbs. It has a huge home made wood burning heater. They have been doing for a few years now with great success.
    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Gray Mare View Post
    There is a Mennonite farm in the area with a few plastic hoop houses they use to propagate plants in, lots of flowers, some vegetable starts and a few herbs. It has a huge home made wood burning heater. They have been doing for a few years now with great success.
    I'm seeing them pop up all over Iowa now. The one north of me raises dandelion greens for the grocery market, they raise the red and the white veined varieties. I prefer the red veined as they have a more peppery flavor to them.
    People are quick to confuse and despise confidence as arrogance but that is common amongst those who have never accomplished anything in their lives and who have always played it safe not willing to risk failure.

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