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WAR Russia Halts Cooperation With US In Syria, "No Fly Zone" west of Euphrates River
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  1. #1
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    Russia Halts Cooperation With US In Syria, "No Fly Zone" west of Euphrates River

    "In areas where Russian aviation is conducting combat missions in the Syrian skies,
    any flying objects, including jets and unmanned aerial vehicles of the
    international coalition discovered west of the Euphrates River will be
    followed by Russian air and ground defenses as air targets,
    "
    the Russian Defense Ministry announced, quoted by Sputnik.

    by Tyler Durden
    Jun 19, 2017 8:01 AM

    Shortly after Russia's deputy foreign minister slammed the US downing of a Syrian
    Su-22 jet as an "act of aggression" and "support for terrorists", Russia announced
    that starting June 19 it was halting all interactions with the US under the framework
    on the "memorandum of incident prevention in Syrian skies", the Russian Defense Ministry
    said on Monday, thereby assuring the probability of even more deadly
    escalations between Russia and the US-led coalition.

    In retaliation, the ministry warned that Russian missile defense will intercept
    any aircraft in the area of operations of the Russian Aerospace Forces
    in Syria
    ,

    "In areas where Russian aviation is conducting combat missions in the Syrian skies,
    any flying objects, including jets and unmanned aerial vehicles of the
    international coalition discovered west of the Euphrates River will be
    followed by Russian air and ground defenses as air targets
    ,
    " the Russian
    Defense Ministry announced, quoted by Sputnik.

    Contrary to the earlier statement by the US according to which, it "contacted its
    Russian counterparts by telephone via an established "de-confliction line" to de-
    escalate the situation and stop the firing", Russia claims the US-led coalition
    command didn't use the deconfliction channel with Russia to avoid an
    incident during an operation in Raqqa:


    "Russian Aerospace Forces' jets were conducting operations in Syrian
    airspace that time. However, the command of the coalition forces didn't
    use the existing channel between the air command of the Qatari airbase
    al Udeid and the [Russian] Hmeymim airbase to avoid incidents over Syria."

    The Russian ministry also "demands a thorough investigation by the US command
    with the provision of its results and measures taken."

    "We consider such actions of the US command as an intentional violation of
    its obligations in the framework of the memo on avoiding incidents and
    the safety of aviation flights during operations in Syria signed on October
    20, 2015."
    A bilateral memorandum of understanding was signed between the United States
    and Russia signed in October 2015 to ensure the safety of flights during combat
    missions over Syria.

    On June 18, the Syrian army said that the US-led coalition had brought down
    its aircraft in southern Raqqa countryside when it was fulfilling its mission against
    Daesh. Later, the coalition confirmed the attack saying that it shot down the Syrian
    government forces' Su-22 aircraft as it had allegedly been bombing in an area
    where US-backed rebel forces, the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), were stationed,
    south of Tabqa in the Raqqa province. The US-led coalition called its attack on the
    Syrian army's jet "collective self-defense," adding that it contacted the Russian
    military to de-escalate the situation after the incident.
    shōu xnyngkă ma?

  2. #2
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    Ali zkk‏ @A_Ozkok 15m
    Russia Defense Ministry:
    We will consider any flying objects in our operation areas
    a target. The focus will be on eastern Euphrates.
    Syria




    -GEROMAN 🇸🇾 -‏ @GeromanAT 4h
    Syria Resafa Raqqa CS - Situation Map Update -
    - Current Situation after liberating Resafa - SAA -






    Syrian Civil War Map‏ @CivilWarMap 21m
    The Syrian Government Pilot is in custody
    and being treated by the SDF. Location unknown.




    Russian Embassy, UK‏ Verified account @RussianEmbassy 5m
    US shot down Syrian AF plane
    alleging it was targeting opposition not ISIS.
    Americans forget whose country they are in.

    shōu xnyngkă ma?

  3. #3
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    No More Games:
    Russia Vows to Track and Target Any US Aircraft
    'West of the Euphrates'


    Moscow sends a crystal-clear message to Washington:
    The games in Syria are over

    RI Staff
    42 minutes ago
    http://russia-insider.com/en/politic...Se2my8.twitter

    We didn't believe it at first, but it's true: Russia's Defense Ministry says
    it will target any aircraft from the US-led coalition flying west of
    the Euphrates.

    In the areas of combat missions of Russian air fleet in Syrian
    skies, any airborne objects, including aircraft and unmanned
    vehicles of the [US-led] international coalition, located to the
    west of the Euphrates River, will be tracked by Russian ground
    and air defense forces as air targets
    , the Russian Ministry of
    Defense stated.

    The announcement comes after the US shot down a Syrian jet near
    Raqqa. Washington says the Syrian jet had dropped bombs near
    US-backed forces, but Damascus insists the plane was downed while
    flying a mission against Islamic State militants.


    RT @RT_com
    URGENT: Russian military halts Syria sky incident prevention interactions with US
    as of June 19 Moscow https://on.rt.com/8f9g pic.twitter.com/w27zQsyy5y


    RT @RT_com
    Coalitions airborne objects in Russian Air Forces Syria missions areas
    to be tracked as targets Moscow
    https://on.rt.com/8f9g pic.twitter.com/PHqYQjI6Yo
    6:41 AM - 19 Jun 2017
    shōu xnyngkă ma?

  4. #4
    This thread seems to be the one to watch today.

    We are approaching a period when two major powers have essentially declared a "no fly zone" over the same area.

    Everyone needs to stand down.

  5. #5
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    This certainly has the potential to kick it up a notch.
    Proud Infidel...............and Cracker

    Member: Nowski Brigade

    Deplorable


  6. #6
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    Russia to target any 'flying objects' over Syria
    where its aviation is active: agencies



    Mon Jun 19, 2017 | 7:32am EDT
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mi...+World+News%29

    Russia's Defense Ministry said on Monday it would view as targets any
    flying objects over Syria in the areas of the country where its air forces
    operate, Russian news agencies reported.

    The statement followed after a U.S. warplane shot down a Syrian army
    jet on Sunday in the southern Raqqa countryside, with Washington saying
    the jet had dropped bombs near U.S.-backed forces and Damascus saying
    the plane was downed while flying a mission against Islamic State
    militants.

    The Defense Ministry also said that it was suspending its interaction
    with the United States on preventing air incidents over Syria from June 19,
    the agencies reported.

    The U.S. did not use its communication channel with Russia ahead of
    the downing of the Syrian government warplane, the ministry was
    quoted as saying.

    (Reporting by Maria Kiselyova; Writing by Dmitry Solovyov)
    shōu xnyngkă ma?

  7. #7
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    Gregor Peter‏ @L0gg0l 17h
    Statement implies U.S-led coalition ready to encounter Russia if need be
    ("will not hesitate to defend coalition&partners from ANY threat")



    China Xinhua News‏ Verified account @XHNews 5h
    U.S.-led coalition downs Syrian warplane in "flagrant aggression"
    http://xhne.ws/dUffY




    Sputnik Verified account @SputnikInt 2h
    US-led coalition didn't use the deconfliction channel with Russia
    to avoid an incident during an operation in Raqqa

    https://sptnkne.ws/eFmt
    shōu xnyngkă ma?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millwright View Post
    This certainly has the potential to kick it up a notch.
    One more Notch:



    Russia warns U.S.
    not to hit Syrian government troops: Ifax


    Mon Jun 19, 2017 | 4:17am EDT
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mi...-idUSKBN19A0VY

    The downing of a Syrian government warplane by the United
    States is a step toward a dangerous escalation, and Moscow
    is warning Washington not to use force against Syrian
    government troops
    , a senior Russian diplomat told Interfax
    news agency on Monday.


    Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov also told
    the agency that a set of new U.S. sanctions that can be
    imposed on Russia will lead Moscow to retaliate.

    Ryabkov said that he and U.S. Undersecretary of State
    Thomas Shannon would meet in St Petersburg on June 23
    to discuss problems in bilateral ties, Interfax reported.

    (Reporting by Maria Kiselyova; Writing by Dmitry Solovyov)
    shōu xnyngkă ma?

  9. #9
    Russia warns U.S.
    not to hit Syrian government troops


    Nothing in the air and no troops on the ground.

    That leaves empty vehicles, armor, artillery, buildings.

    Ain't gonna work.

  10. #10
    My house won't be ready until September. PI, can you ask them to hold off on ww3 until then?
    Truth is treason in the empire of lies.

    Ron Paul

  11. #11
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    The Defense Ministry will consider
    all US airplanes over Syria "air targets"


    The war in Syria, 14:12
    https://translate.google.com/transla...-text=&act=url
    (Google Translate)

    The Russian military department said that any aircraft
    in the areas of Russian military operations in Syria
    will be taken to support air defense. US actions in Syria
    - in fact, military aggression, they declared in the
    Ministry of Defense


    The Ministry of Defense of Russia ceases to cooperate with the United
    States in the framework of the memorandum on the prevention of
    incidents in the sky over Syria. This is stated in the statement of
    the department, received by RBC.

    The military said that in the sky over Syria to the west of the Euphrates,
    "planes and drones of the international coalition in Syria will be taken to
    escorted by the air defense forces of Russia." To such measures in the
    department will resort after the destruction of the Syrian fighter-bomber
    Su-22.

    The Defense Ministry added that the combat actions of US aviation
    against the "legitimate armed forces of the UN member state" are
    "actually military aggression against the Syrian Arab Republic."

    During the attack of the US Air Force in the airspace of Syria,
    Russian VCS aircraft operated, but the command of the coalition forces
    did not use the existing communication channel between the air commands
    of the El Udeid air base (Qatar) and the Syrian air base Khmeimim
    used by the Russian armed forces to prevent incidents in the airspace
    of the country .

    "We consider these actions of the American command as a conscious
    failure to fulfill their obligations under the memorandum on the prevention
    of incidents and ensuring the safety of aviation during operations in Syria
    on October 20, 2015," the Defense Ministry concluded.

    As RBC told a source in the Russian Defense Ministry, the representatives
    of the United States in general are in Syria on illegal grounds.
    "Legitimate representatives are in the UN, but they are there without
    the right to stay in this territory. And what the Americans did could
    theoretically affect our security
    , "the source explained.

    Therefore, according to him, the memorandum ceases to be valid.
    "Moreover, this zone falls under the action of our air defense. And if
    someone flies there, our systems will react to them
    , "he concluded.

    Earlier today, on June 19, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov called
    for coordinating all actions in Syria "on the ground" with Damascus.
    "We proceed from the fact that it is necessary to fully respect the
    sovereignty and territorial integrity of Syria, as stipulated in the UN
    Security Council Resolution 2254 and other UN documents,"
    the head of the Russian Foreign Ministry said, stressing that all
    participants in the process should ensure coordination Actions.
    On the eve of the night it became known that the US coalition on June 18
    shot down a fighter of the Syrian government army near the city of Rakka.

    Syrian authorities note that the fighter participated in the operation against
    the "Islamic State" (IG, an organization banned in Russia) - it was jointly
    conducted by the militia forces and the government army.

    In the command of the Armed Forces of Syria, the incident was called
    a "frank aggressive action", and also accused the US of coordinating
    actions with terrorists.

    In turn, the coalition stated that they "do not seek a conflict with the
    Syrian regime, Russian or regime-backing forces," but will defend their
    partners. According to their version, the Syrian Su-22 was shot down
    after dropping bombs near the soldiers of the moderate-opposition
    "Forces of Democratic Syria" (SDS). The operation was conducted
    "in accordance with the rules for the use of forces and means and
    collective self-defense of the coalition partners," the coalition stated.

    Authors: Inna Sidorkova, Asya Sotnikova
    Tags: USA , Ministry of Defense , Syria



    ________________



    Минобороны России‏ Verified account @mod_russia 59m
    Statement of Rus MoD concerning downing
    of the Syrian Su-22 near the town of Resafa

    http://s.mil.ru/2sOoTFx


    Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation

    2 hrs
    https://www.facebook.com/14922523243...258711/?type=3

    Statement of the Russian Defence Ministry concerning downing
    of the Syrian Su-22
    near the town of Resafa

    On June 18, 2017 the American fighter F-18A belonging to the
    international coalition shot down the Su-22 aircraft of the Syrian Air Force,
    which was performing a combat mission supporting the government
    troops, which were conducting the offensive against the ISIS terrorists
    near the town of Resafa (40 km to the south-west of the city of Raqqa).

    As a result of the attack, the Syrian aircraft was destroyed.
    The pilot baled out over an ISIS-controlled area, his status is unknown.

    The destruction of the aircraft of the Syrian Air Force by the American
    aviation in the air space of Syria is a cynical violation of the sovereignty
    of the Syrian Arab Republic.

    Numerous combat activities of the US aviation carried out under the cover
    of fight against terrorism aimed against the legitimate Armed Forces
    of a UN-member is a blatant breach of the international law and is in fact
    an act of military aggression against the Syrian Arab Republic.


    Moreover, at that time the aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces
    were also performing combat missions in the air space of Syria.

    However, the Command of the coalition forces did not use the existing
    channels of communication
    between the Command of the Al Udeid Air Base
    (Qatar) and the Hmeymim Air Base Command to prevent air incidents
    in the air space of Syria.

    The Russian party considers those actions of the US Command as
    an intentional failure to fulfill its obligations within the Memorandum
    on prevention of incidents and providing of flight security during
    the operations in Syria dated October 20, 2015.

    Since June 19, 2017, the Russian Defence Ministry has stopped
    the cooperation with the American party within the Memorandum
    on prevention of incidents and providing of flight security during
    the operations in Syria and demands a thorough investigation
    of the incident by the US Command with further providing of
    information on its results and the taken measures.

    In the combat mission zones of the Russian aviation in the air space
    of Syria, all kinds of airborne vehicles, including aircraft and UAVs
    of the international coalition detected to the west of the Euphrates River
    will be tracked by the Russian SAM systems as air targets.

    shōu xnyngkă ma?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ordinary Girl View Post
    My house won't be ready until September. PI, can you ask them to hold off on ww3 until then?
    Would you settle for multiple direct non-proxy regional conflicts,
    and consequential economic fallout of total trade embargo by China?

    That may be one of the best available out of a list of alternatives
    to Global Glow-in-the-Dark Glass parking-lots if the current trend
    of military escalation continues.

    If Turkey goes full-bore Russia partner in Syria,
    then the US coalition will have to pull out.
    This will temporarily stop partitioning actions,
    but will just postpone it a few months.
    (EU/USA will take Erdog out, and install a new Turkish leader
    that is more Euro-friendly, restoring NATO to Incirlik airbase.)

    If Trump puts his foot down and squelches the War-Hawks in Washington DC
    then this situation can deescalate, and a cooling-off period may still be possible.


    shōu xnyngkă ma?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Possible Impact View Post
    Would you settle for multiple direct non-proxy regional conflicts,
    and consequential economic fallout of total trade embargo by China?

    That may be one of the best available out of a list of alternatives
    to Global Glow-in-the-Dark Glass parking-lots if the current trend
    of military escalation continues.

    If Turkey goes full-bore Russia partner in Syria,
    then the US coalition will have to pull out.
    This will temporarily stop partitioning actions,
    but will just postpone it a few months.
    (EU/USA will take Erdog out, and install a new Turkish leader
    that is more Euro-friendly, restoring NATO to Incirlik airbase.)

    If Trump puts his foot down and squelches the War-Hawks in Washington DC
    then this situation can deescalate, and a cooling-off period may still be possible.



    Well, honestly PI, if that's the best you can manage I suppose I will have to take it.
    Truth is treason in the empire of lies.

    Ron Paul

  14. #14
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    So Russia declares a no fly zone and says they will shoot down coalition [read US] aircraft and drones and they have state of the art air defenses that I don't think we can counter. Putin is not the type to back down when his limit has been reached and everyone knows that Trump will do almost anything in order to save face and not be intimidated. And with all this going on of course the stock market is up over 100 points and both gold and silver are down. Nah, no manipulation in the markets going on not even when push comes to shove with another major nuclear power.
    What is the lake of fire? What is it's purpose? Is the lake of fire eternal hell? Is there any hope of escape for those cast into this lake?
    http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html

  15. #15
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    Jim Sciutto Verified account
    @jimsciutto

    CNN Chief National Security Correspondent,
    Dad, New Yorker, avid traveler, NY Mets fan
    Washington, DC
    jimsciutto.com
    Joined February 2009



    Barbara Starr Verified account
    @barbarastarrcnn

    CNN Pentagon Correspondent
    RT are not endorsements
    Washington DC
    cnn.com
    Joined March 2010


    ___________


    Jim Sciutto ‏Verified account @jimsciutto 1h
    Russia to US:
    "aircraft & unmanned vehicles belonging to the Intl coalition
    ..will be considered air targets" in airspace over Syria


    Barbara Starr‏ Verified account @barbarastarrcnn 52m
    Russia says it will target anyone flying west of Euphrates
    after US shot down regime SU-22.
    Coaltion say comms line with Russia is open.


    Jim Sciutto‏ Verified account @jimsciutto 48m
    MW, Sr US defense official tells @barbarastarrcnn
    deconfliction line remains open w/Russia
    & US does not believe Russia targeting US jets

    Ryan Bastek‏ @RyanBastek 37m
    "Deconfliction line remains open"
    does mean that there's actually someone on the Russian side
    or only on our side. Big difference
    .


    Megan Mishler‏ @meggymish 34m
    This doesn't make sense.
    Russia says they will shoot down coalition planes/uavs,
    we say "nuh uh?"
    After we shot down a Syrian fighter? Cmon.



    cpurifoy‏ @CarltonPurifoy 14m
    Replying to @jimsciutto @barbarastarrcnn
    So it's combat poker and we are calling their bluff.
    My goodness lives are at stake here.
    shōu xnyngkă ma?

  16. #16
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    x 10
    Wael Al Hussaini‏ @WaelHussaini 1h
    Our hero Ali Fahed is safe & on his way to AlSalamyh to his home.
    Yesterday small group of Tigers managed to grab him behind the SDF lines.


    maytham‏ @maytham956 1h
    SAA in a special operation rescued the Syrian pilot Ali Fahd
    whose fighting jet was shot down by US. Syria





    Colonial Yellow Boy‏ @ModerateLoomis 13m
    West Raqqa info via @melisaraimmo
    shōu xnyngkă ma?

  17. #17
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    Abdullah Bozkurt‏ @abdbozkurt Jun 17
    Turkey president Erdogan steps up his attacks on Saudi Arabia
    amid Qatar row, tells Portugal TV that Wahhabism is outside of Islam.


    ^^^ That should get Turkey out of the Gulf Coalition
    (and the fight for the "Guardian of the Two Mosques" begins...)

    Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques (Turkish: İki Kutsal Cami'nin Hizmetkrı),
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Custod...o_Holy_Mosques


    This should free up a couple of hundred aircraft to work with Russia

    Turkey Military Strength

    Current military capabilities and available firepower for 2017 detailed.
    http://www.globalfirepower.com/count...ntry_id=turkey

    AIR POWER - Includes both fixed-wing and rotary-wing aircraft
    from all branches of service.
    Total Aircraft: 1,018
    Fighters/Interceptors: 207
    Fixed-Wing Attack Aircraft: 207
    Transport Aircraft: 439
    Trainer Aircraft: 276
    Helicopters: 455
    Attack Helicopters: 70
    shōu xnyngkă ma?

  18. #18
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    Jim Sciutto Verified account @jimsciutto 48m
    MW, Sr US defense official tells @barbarastarrcnn
    deconfliction line remains open w/Russia
    & US does not believe Russia targeting US jets

    Well, if Russia DOES target one of ours, THAT will be an act of war. Can't make it any more plain and open.

    "Talking is easy and everyone is wise after the event."

    Ernest Joyce

  19. #19
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    Hasan Sari‏Verified account @HasanSari7 17h
    Erdogan's advisor to state-TV:
    SaudiArabia needs an "Arab Spring"
    as its ruled by one tribe and one monarchy:


    ^^^ More data that Turkey will split with NATO & its Arab partners.
    ___________





    US pilots will defend themselves
    as Russia threatens aircraft over Syria,
    Pentagon says


    by Jamie McIntyre | Jun 19, 2017, 11:48 AM
    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/us...rticle/2626381

    U.S. pilots over Syria will defend themselves if attacked by Russians,
    a Pentagon spokesman said Monday, following a report that Russia will
    treat U.S. or coalition aircraft as targets if they fly over areas in western
    Syria controlled by Russia.


    The Russian Defense Ministry made the threat Monday after a U.S. F/A-18E
    Super Hornet shot down a Syrian Su-22 after that plane bombed U.S.-
    backed Syrian Democratic Forces that are working with the U.S. to defeat
    the Islamic State on Sunday.

    "Any aircraft, including planes and drones of the international coalition,
    detected in the operation areas west of the Euphrates River by the Russian
    air forces will be followed by Russian ground-based air defense and air
    defense aircraft as air targets," the Defense Ministry said.

    "We are aware of the Russian statements," Navy Capt. Jeff Davis,
    a Pentagon spokesman, said Monday morning. "We do not seek conflict
    with any party in Syria other than ISIS, but we will not hesitate to
    defend ourselves or our partners if threatened," Davis said.

    A spokesman for the U.S.-led coalition said the Russian statement
    has had no effect
    on the operations in support of U.S.-backed Syrian
    fighters moving against ISIS in Raqqa in western Syria.


    "Coalition aircraft continue to conduct operations
    throughout Syria, targeting ISIS forces and providing
    air support for coalition partner forces on the ground,"
    said Col. Ryan Dillon, chief U.S. military spokesman
    in Baghdad.


    He also appeared to indicate the U.S. is avoiding the parts of Syria
    where Russia said U.S. planes would be tracked as potential targets
    or providing additional airpower to counter threats.

    "As a result of recent encounters involving pro-Syrian regime and
    Russian forces, we have taken prudent measures to re-position
    aircraft over Syria so as to continue targeting ISIS forces
    while ensuring the safety of our aircrews given known threats
    in the battlespace," Dillon said.


    Russia, beyond making the threat to treat U.S. or coalition aircraft
    as targets, also said its "deconfliction" line with the U.S. has been
    shut down. The line was established so U.S. and Russian forces
    could avoid bombing each other as they fight ISIS.

    Both Davis and Dillon insisted the hotline remains the best way
    to avoid future shoot-downs.

    "The coalition is always available to de-conflict with the Russians
    to ensure the safety of coalition aircrews and operations," Davis said.
    "The de-confliction line has proven effective at mitigating strategic
    miscalculations and de-escalating tense situations
    ."

    Said Dillon: "We used the de-confliction line yesterday and remain open
    to using it. It has proven its worth in the past to tap down tensions."

    shōu xnyngkă ma?

  20. #20
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    Airwars‏ @airwars 3h
    Russia waters down threat to Coalition aircraft.
    Now says will 'escort'.
    A few minutes ago said would be tracked by Russian SAMs as targets







    thomas_wiegold‏ @thomas_wiegold 3h
    Replying to @airwars
    However, English version on Facebook still says "will be tracked"?
    What's the source for your second version?



    Airwars‏ @airwars 3h
    The current MoD page is showing that revised version for us.
    Facebook then kindly showed recent revisions



    Airwars‏ @airwars 3h
    It's actually confusing.
    The SAM version is showing as the original,
    with the 'escorted' as the current when we excavate


    Julian Rpcke‏ Verified account @JulianRoepcke 3h
    Replying to @airwars @QalaatAlMudiq
    Not "watered down" actually.
    Only different translations
    (by RT and the Russian MoD)
    of the same Russian word ("followed").



    DegusLocke‏ @SquizzRadical 3h
    Replying to @airwars @DavidKenner
    I saw this, and find both solutions worrying.
    At this point, it makes "deescalation zones" a myth.





    Alter Schwede‏ @CapYossarian 2h
    Replying to @airwars @ItsBorys
    Do they?
    ttp://Interfax.com
    Russian forces in Syria may switch from tracking to destroying
    U.S.-led coalition's aerial targets
    shōu xnyngkă ma?

  21. #21
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    The Intel Crab‏ @IntelCrab 14m
    Breaking via @thejointstaff:
    "We seek to open a line of communication with Moscow
    about the dispute in Syria."
    shōu xnyngkă ma?

  22. #22
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    Barbara Starr ‏Verified account @barbarastarrcnn 1h
    JUST IN: Coalition taking "prudent measures"
    to reposition aircraft over Syria"
    @OIRSpox hours after Kremlin says it will target US/OIR


    Mary Walsh‏ Verified account @CBSWalsh 1h
    New details on Syria jet shoot down:
    US F18 fired 2 missiles at range of .6 miles;
    1st missed, 2nd blew rear SU-22 off;
    chute spotted



    The Intel Crab‏ @IntelCrab 3m
    US F-18 reportedly fired two missiles at a range of .6 miles.
    Only ONE made impact; immediately hindering the SU-22.
    shōu xnyngkă ma?

  23. #23
    So, Russia won't shoot down American aircraft? Very confused.
    Truth is treason in the empire of lies.

    Ron Paul

  24. #24
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    Nicholas A. Glavin‏ @nickglavin 5m
    CAPT Jeff Davis, DoD spokesman on Russian MoD statement:
    "we will not hesitate to defend ourselves
    or our partners if threatened" in Syria.


    _________


    U.S., Russia, Iran draw new red lines in Syria


    A U.S. Navy F/A-18E Super Hornet launches from the flight deck of the aircraft carrier
    USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN 69) in the Mediterranean Sea June 28, 2016.
    U.S. Navy/Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Ryan U. Kledzik/Handout
    via Reuters



    By Tom Perry and Babak Dehghanpisheh | BEIRUT
    Mon Jun 19, 2017 | 12:59pm EDT
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mi...-idUSKBN19A21A
    Russia, Iran and the United States are drawing new red lines for each
    other in Syria, with Moscow warning Washington on Monday it would
    treat any U.S.-led coalition planes in its area of operations as potential
    targets after the U.S. air force downed a Syrian jet.

    Tensions escalated on Sunday as the U.S. army brought down the jet near
    Raqqa and Iran launched missiles at Islamic State targets in eastern Syria
    - the first time each state has carried out such actions in the multi-sided
    Syrian war. A pro-Damascus commander said Tehran and Washington
    were drawing "red lines".

    Russia, like Iran an ally of President Bashar al-Assad, issued a warning of
    its own to the United States in response to the downing of the Syrian jet,
    saying on Monday it would view as targets any planes flying west of
    the Euphrates River, though it stopped short of saying it would shoot
    any down.

    The incidents reflect mounting competition for areas of Syria where Islamic
    State (IS) insurgents are in retreat, leaving swathes of territory up for
    grabs and posing the question of what comes next for U.S. policy that
    is shaped first and foremost by the priority of vanquishing the jihadists.

    The United States said the Syrian army plane shot down on Sunday
    had dropped bombs near fighters of the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF),
    a U.S.-backed alliance of Kurdish and Arab fighters battling to capture
    the city of Raqqa from IS.

    Russia's Defense Ministry responded on Monday by suspending cooperation
    with the United States aimed at avoiding air incidents over Syria, where
    the Russian air force is bombing in support of Assad's campaigns against
    rebels and IS.

    The Syrian army said the jet was shot down while flying a mission
    against Islamic State.

    The SDF however accused the Syrian government on Monday of attacking
    its positions using planes, artillery and tanks. "If the regime continues
    attacking our positions in Raqqa province, we will be forced to retaliate,"
    SDF spokesman Talal Silo said.


    The Syrian government this month marched into Raqqa province from
    the west but had avoided conflict with the U.S.-backed SDF until the latest
    incident.

    "The SDF is getting big-headed," said the pro-Damascus military
    commander, a non-Syrian who spoke to Reuters on condition of anonymity.
    "There could be problems between it and Soheil Hassan," said the
    commander, referring to the Syrian officer leading the government
    offensive in Raqqa province.

    IRAN SENDS "CLEAR MESSAGE"

    The United States has said its recent actions against Syrian government
    forces and allied militia have been self-defensive in nature, aimed at
    stopping attacks on U.S.-led coalition forces or their local allies.

    These have included several air strikes against pro-government forces that
    have sought to advance towards a U.S. military base in southeastern Syria
    near the border with Iraq, where the U.S. military has been training rebels
    to fight IS.

    The area is of strategic significance to Tehran as it seeks to secure a land
    corridor to its allies in Iraq, Syria and Lebanon and establish a "Shi'ite
    crescent" of influence that has long concerned U.S.-allied states in the
    Middle East.

    The missiles fired by Iran's Revolutionary Guards on Sunday targeted IS
    in Deir al-Zor province, fast becoming the jihadists' last remaining foothold
    in Syria and a declared military priority of Tehran's allies in the Syrian
    government.

    The attacks have showcased the depth of Iran's military presence in Syria:
    Iranian drones launched from areas around Damascus allowed
    Revolutionary Guard commanders to assess the damage done by
    the missiles in real-time.

    Two top Revolutionary Guard commanders said that the strikes were
    intended to send a message to the perpetrators of militant attacks in
    Tehran last week - claimed by Islamic State - that killed 18 people,
    as well as their supporters.

    "I hope that the clear message of this attack will be understood by the
    terrorists as well as their regional and international supporters," said
    Amir Ali Hajizadeh, the head of the Revolutionary Guards' aerospace unit,
    according to the website of Iranian state television.

    Six missiles with a range of between 650 to 700 kilometers (400-435 miles)
    were fired from western Iran, soaring over Iraqi territory and striking
    the targets in Deir al-Zor.

    State TV posted black and white aerial video on their website on Monday
    which they labeled as the moment of impact of the attack. A projectile
    can be seen hitting a building followed by thick black smoke billowing out.

    State TV repeatedly aired video footage of the beginning of the attack
    Monday, showing several missiles streaking across a dark night sky.

    Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif defended the attack
    in a Twitter post on Monday. "Iran's missile capability protects its citizens
    in lawful self-defense & advances common global fight to eradicate (IS)
    & extremist terror," he wrote.

    Other Iranian officials were more blunt in their assessment of the attack.
    "This attack, before being a message for the terrorists, is a message for
    the supporters of terrorism in the region which are symbolized by the
    Saudi regime and the Americans," the state television website quoted
    Iranian parliamentarian Javad Karimi Qoddousi as saying.

    Analysts say that more robust U.S. military action in Syria since President
    Donald Trump took office in January has resulted from his decision to give
    the military more autonomy in how it pursues the war on Islamic State.

    "The (Syrian) regime is always testing and pushing the boundaries," said
    Yezid Sayigh, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Middle East Center in Beirut.

    "I don't think the Americans are testing the red lines. They are saying
    'we have a red line here and if you are going to test it we will respond,
    but it doesn't mean we are now shifting strategy' because they also
    want to reassure the Russians."
    (Additional reporting by Laila Bassam and Ellen Francis in Beirut;
    writing by Tom Perry; editing by Mark Heinrich)
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Sunday View Post
    Well, if Russia DOES target one of ours, THAT will be an act of war. Can't make it any more plain and open.


    Just us being in Syria is an act of war Ben and the Russians are in Syria by invitation of the sovereign Syrian government. It wasn't the Russians that started this but we did. We were not invited into Syria but simply came across the borders. That makes us the aggressor here and not the Russians. Like it or not Syria is a nation that has a lawful functioning government whether or not we approve of Assad is immaterial. We are once again sticking our nose where it doesn't belong.
    What is the lake of fire? What is it's purpose? Is the lake of fire eternal hell? Is there any hope of escape for those cast into this lake?
    http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html

  26. #26
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    Originally Posted by Ben Sunday
    Well, if Russia DOES target one of ours, THAT will be an act of war. Can't make it any more plain and open.


    Here is a little more "Legal Side" info:


    Just Security

    On the Precipice: The U.S. and Russia in Syria

    By Adil Ahmad Haque
    Monday, June 19, 2017 at 11:21 AM
    https://www.justsecurity.org/42297/p...ia/#more-42297



    A Russian air force Su-30 fighter jet in Syria.


    The United States and Russia have entered a new and dangerous moment.
    On Sunday, a U.S. fighter jet shot down a Syrian warplane.

    This morning, the Russian Defense Ministry announced that it has terminated
    its de-confliction line with the United States and will consider U.S. military aircraft
    operating West of the Euphrates River as legitimate targets. The risks of escalation
    and direct confrontation have never been higher.

    The U.S. and Russia seem to disagree about both the facts and the law.

    The U.S. claims that the Syrian warplane was attacking Syrian Democratic Forces,
    while Russia claims that the warplane was providing air cover for Syrian ground
    forces mounting an offensive against ISIS. Since Russia and Syria tend not to
    distinguish between ISIS and other anti-regime armed groups, the two sides
    may agree on the underlying facts but characterize them differently.

    In addition, the U.S. claims that it used the proper de-confliction line
    to de-escalate an earlier clash between Syrian and SDF ground forces.
    However, Russia claims that the U.S. did not use the proper de-confliction line
    before shooting down the Syrian warplane.

    As for international law, the U.S. claims that it acted in collective self-defense
    of Coalition partnered forces, while Russia claims that the downing of the Syrian
    aircraft was a cynical violation of Syrias sovereignty, a flagrant violation of
    international law, and actual military aggression against the Syrian Arab Republic.


    Who is right?


    To set the stage, consider the U.S. Central Commands press release, which begins
    as follows:
    SOUTHWEST ASIA At approximately 4:30 p.m. Syria time, June 18,
    Pro-Syrian regime forces attacked the Syrian Democratic Forces-held
    town of JaDin, South of Tabqah, wounding a number of SDF fighters
    and driving the SDF from the town.

    Coalition aircraft conducted a show of force and stopped the initial
    pro-regime advance toward the SDF-controlled town.

    Following the Pro-Syrian forces attack, the Coalition contacted its Russian
    counterparts by telephone via an established de-confliction line to
    de-escalate the situation and stop the firing.

    At 6:43 p.m., a Syrian regime SU-22 dropped bombs near SDF fighters
    south of Tabqah and, in accordance with rules of engagement
    and in collective self-defense of Coalition partnered forces
    ,
    was immediately shot down by a U.S. F/A-18E Super Hornet.

    JaDin sits approximately two kilometers north of an established
    East-West SDF-Syrian Regime de-confliction area.


    Such clashes were bound to happen eventually, if not here then near
    the US garrison at Tanf.

    The U.S. claims to have shot down the Syrian warplane on Sunday in collective self-
    defense of Coalition partnered forces
    . Now, the United Nations Charter recognizes
    that States have an inherent right of collective self-defense. However, under the UN
    Charter, collective self-defense refers to defense of another state, not defense
    of non-state actors
    . Of course, the SDF fights on behalf of the Democratic Federation
    of Northern Syria, which is not recognized as a state, even by the United States. So the
    U.S. claim that this strike is an exercise of collective self-defense of Coalition partnered
    forces
    seems not merely false but confused.


    Relatedly, the U.S. sometimes acts in unit self-defense, that is, in defense of U.S.
    troops under armed attack. In many cases, unit self-defense is just a special case
    of national self-defense. After all, U.S. troops are organs of the state, so defense
    of the former may constitute defense of the latter. Presumably, SDF fighters are not
    organs of the U.S., or any other state, so unit self-defense of them is not a form
    of individual or collective self-defense either.

    Indeed, were the SDF a de facto organ of the U.S., under its direction and control,
    then its actions would be attributable to the U.S. under the law of state responsibility.
    In principle, that could include any war crimes committed by SDF forces.

    My guess is that the U.S. is not eager to claim all of the SDFs actions as its own.

    Often, the U.S. invokes self-defense without clarifying whether it refers to self-defense
    under the UN Charter, self-defense under its own national rules of engagement,
    or self-defense under its own national criminal law. However, since the press release
    independently claims that the strike was carried out in accordance with rules of
    engagement
    , its separate invocation of collective self-defense must refer to something
    else, and the UN Charter is the most likely candidate. Indeed, even if the U.S.
    complied with its own national rules of engagement, this would hardly ensure
    compliance with international law.


    The press release continues:
    The Coalitions mission is to defeat ISIS in Iraq and Syria. The Coalition
    does not seek to fight Syrian regime, Russian, or pro-regime forces
    partnered with them, but will not hesitate to defend Coalition or partner
    forces from any threat.

    The Coalition presence in Syria addresses the imminent threat ISIS in
    Syria poses globally. The demonstrated hostile intent and actions of pro-
    regime forces toward Coalition and partner forces in Syria conducting
    legitimate counter-ISIS operations
    will not be tolerated.

    The Coalition calls on all parties to focus their efforts on the defeat of ISIS,
    which is our common enemy and the greatest threat to regional and
    worldwide peace and security.


    Now, if the Coalitions sole mission were to defeat ISIS in Iraq and Syria,
    then it might have a novel but plausible legal position. On this view, the Coalition
    is acting in collective self-defense of its member states (including Iraq, for example)
    from imminent or ongoing armed attack by ISIS.

    Accordingly, the U.S. is not defending SDF forces for its own sake, but merely as a
    means of sustaining its collective self-defense of its member states.

    Importantly, so long as the Coalition uses no more force than necessary
    and proportionate to achieve its legitimate defensive aims, Syria and its allies
    would have no legal right to interfere
    . After all, as the International Military
    Tribunal at Nuremberg proclaimed, there can be no self-defense against self-defense.

    The most obvious problem with this rationale is that it is far from clear that
    the Coalitions sole mission is to defeat ISIS.

    Both Rex Tillerson and Nikki Haley have indicated that regime change remains
    a U.S. strategic objective. We should therefore question whether the SDFs presence
    in JaDin was a necessary and proportionate means of achieving a legitimate defensive
    aim.

    As for the SDF, its strategic objectives seem to include creating an autonomous region,
    if not an independent state. So, even if the U.S. partnered with the SDF exclusively
    to defend its member states from ISIS, the SDF may be pursuing its own agenda,
    exceeding what would be necessary and proportionate to defend coalition member
    states.


    To the extent that SDF forces pursue their own political aims, rather than
    or in addition tothe defensive aims of the coalition, defense of SDF fighters
    may not be a necessary and proportionate means of sustaining our own defensive
    aims.

    In plain terms, the U.S. may have a legal right to protect non-state partner forces
    who are exclusively conducting legitimate counter-ISIS operations, but has no
    legal right to protect non-state partner forces who are pursuing regime change
    or other political objectives.


    There is no right of collective self-defense of non-state actors, and the right of
    collective self-defense of other states only justifies measures that are necessary
    and proportionate means of achieving legitimate defensive aims.

    For this reason, among others, the mixed motives of the U.S.-led
    coalition and its non-state partners compromise the legal basis
    of their military operations and draw them into conflict with
    Russia both legally and militarily.



    Image: Wikimedia Commons (Russian Ministry of Defense)

    Tags: collective self-defense, Jus ad Bellum, Russia, self-defense, Syria, Tanf
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  27. #27
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    Why are we still involved in this stupidity? I thought trump was getting us out of there, what happened to that? Instead we are 1 step away from a shooting conflict between us and Russia and over what? That jackass obammies failed idiotic policies. I couldn't give 2 shits about Syria. And neither can anyone else. Stop this idiocy before it gets out of hand.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by vestige View Post
    This thread seems to be the one to watch today.

    We are approaching a period when two major powers have essentially declared a "no fly zone" over the same area.

    Everyone needs to stand down.
    Actually, not everyone.

    Russia was invited and authorized to militarily assist the Syrian government's effort to regain control of Syrian sovereign soil by democratically elected and internationally recognized Syrian government officials.

    Again - Russia is authorized by Syria to militarily operate on Syrian sovereign soil, and in Syrian sovereign airspace.

    The U.S. has no such authorization from the democratically elected and internationally recognized Syrian government.

    None.

    The U.S. needs to stand down, not Syria - and not Russia, at this time.

    That is the common internationally accepted understanding of the rules that all have agreed to, and currently are SUPPOSED to be operating under.

    If the U.S. wishes to change the mix, it only needs to engage Congress to issue a proper declaration of war between Syria and the U.S.


    intothegoodnight
    "Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

    Dylan Thomas, "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night"

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Sunday View Post
    Well, if Russia DOES target one of ours, THAT will be an act of war. Can't make it any more plain and open.

    NOT if the targeted U.S. plane is flying unauthorized in Syrian sovereign airspace - but, you know this.

    Tell us, Ben - do you believe in the concept of sovereign soil and sovereign airspace, and the many, many historical and current understandings and agreements that support the concept of sovereignty, and all that such is SUPPOSED to imply/guarantee?


    intothegoodnight
    "Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

    Dylan Thomas, "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night"

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by intothatgoodnight View Post
    do you believe in the concept of sovereign soil and sovereign airspace, and the many, many historical and current understandings and agreements that support the concept of sovereignty, and all that such is SUPPOSED to imply/guarantee?


    intothegoodnight

    And if the shoe was on the other foot you know that we would be screaming bloody murder and dragging Russia before the UN security consul and seeking worldwide condemnation of Russia's actions. If one of our allies in the middle east such as the UAE was fighting an insurgency and asked our help and then Russia invited themselves into the UAE and set up an airbase to operate from without the permission of the UAE and the the Russians launched cruise missiles against a UAE airbase and then later on shot down a UAE aircraft that was fighting against the insurgency, ect. If the shoe was on the other foot you know darn well we would pitch a righteous fit.

    So why is this happening again? I think the deep state is running out of time and desperately needs their war. The economy is collapsing and they need a boogeyman to blame the collapse on. I think we were hoping that lil Kim in North Korea would lash out to give us the pretext but apparently he is smarter than we gave him credit for. But not very wise to pick a fight with a real nuclear power and not a minor one whose bombs sometimes fizzle out.
    What is the lake of fire? What is it's purpose? Is the lake of fire eternal hell? Is there any hope of escape for those cast into this lake?
    http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by intothatgoodnight View Post

    The U.S. needs to stand down, not Syria - and not Russia, at this time
    If the U.S. wishes to change the mix, it only needs to engage Congress to issue a proper declaration of war between Syria and the U.S.


    intothegoodnight

    You are right, but sadly we haven't done that since WWII.

    The USA has been in how many countries shooting at people since then? Rhetorical question. We are the Sparta of the present. And we have the audacity to consider ourselves a "Christian" nation. I think not.
    (1 Cor. 8:1-2) : "We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know."

  32. #32
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    The FUSA is the bully of the world.

    DJT has not changed that.
    The wonder of our time isnt how angry we are at politics and politicians; its how little weve done about it. - Fran Porretto
    -http://bastionofliberty.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-wholly-rational-hatred.html

  33. #33
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    Yusha Yuseef 🇸🇾‏Verified account @MIG29_ 3h
    Till now , The Syrian pilot was not rescued yet ..


    Majd Fahd 🇸🇾‏Verified account @Syria_Protector 3h
    No actual info about the destiny
    of the downed jet pilot Lieutenant colonel Ali Fahd,
    no contacts or communications with him so far....


    ^^^ Majd is his actual cousin, and is a good source of information.



    Yusha Yuseef 🇸🇾‏Verified account @MIG29_ 1h
    Breaking , report By RT said
    Syrian Army negotiate with SDF
    to get back our Syrian pilot




    Syria frontlines‏ @SyriaWarReports 3h
    US creates Kurdish state.
    But Kirkuk & Raqqa are not Kurdish.
    Better to take south-eastern Turkey, it's 90% kurdish.
    Good image from WSJ






    Syria Direct‏ @SyriaDirect 1h
    Confrontation with Assad regime complicates
    US-backed military campaign for Raqqa,
    Kurdish official says today.

    http://bit.ly/2sKutZF




    Military Advisor‏ @miladvisor 22m
    Eastern Syria MAP,
    Palmyra-DeirEzzor-Raqqa triangle.
    Syrian Army liberated Resafa, 39km SW of Raqqa from ISIS.

    HD:http://imgur.com/uGOrDRu
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millwright View Post
    This certainly has the potential to kick it up a notch.


    The day is coming----THE DAY IS COMING----when U.S. and Russian forces will get tangled up with each other somewhere over, or around, Syria. It could be at sea, on land or in the air but, sooner or later, somewhere over there, Russia and the U.S. will end up fighting each other. When it happens, it will be a "game changing" moment not only for the U.S. and Russia but for the rest of the world, as well.
    Last edited by ElevenO; 06-20-2017 at 01:29 AM.

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by intothatgoodnight View Post
    The U.S. needs to stand down, not Syria - and not Russia, at this time.

    If the U.S. wishes to change the mix, it only needs to engage Congress to issue a proper declaration of war between Syria and the U.S.
    Quote Originally Posted by coalcracker View Post
    You are right, but sadly we haven't done that since WWII.

    The USA has been in how many countries shooting at people since then? Rhetorical question. We are the Sparta of the present. And we have the audacity to consider ourselves a "Christian" nation. I think not.
    . . . which clearly illustrates what we, here, on TB2K, have been discussing for well over a decade.

    Congress abdicated, long ago, their responibilities to "we, the people."

    Instead, by hook or crook (or both), Congress has become a wholly subjugated subsidiary to the whims and desires of the "BIGS" - big money, big war profiteering, big military-industrial complex/empire building interests, big energy.

    We call these "BIGS" the "deep state," in our most recent vernacular.

    For example (but only one of MANY that could be pointed to) when viewing the Syria situation and the willful and illegal U.S. involvement in Syria, it should be CLEAR and OBVIOUS to all - "we, the people," are NOT part of the required Constitutional decision-making process in Congress with regards to the Syria question, per se.

    However, the neocons-deep state are - and they haven't needed any "stinkin'" Constitutional or Congressional authorization" for decades.

    They simply do as they will.

    Our hard-won and "good name," our flag, sometimes our treasure and blood, our economy and sound money, and the technical and military might of our nation - have been usurped, entirely against our intentions and will, commandeered by non-Constitutional forces and illegal third-parties - a de facto coup, if you will.

    The lifting of the veil - though protracted, continues inexorably forward for those with "eyes to see, and ears to hear."


    intothegoodnight
    Last edited by intothatgoodnight; 06-19-2017 at 03:14 PM.
    "Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

    Dylan Thomas, "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night"

  36. #36
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    Peto Lucem‏ @PetoLucem 31m
    Syria/n War Report June 19, 2017:
    US Downs Syrian Su-22, Pushes To SAA - SDF Escalation

    https://youtu.be/POthiR2eZeg via @southfronteng




    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POthiR2eZeg

    Syrian War Report June 19, 2017:
    US Downs Syrian Su-22, Pushes To SAA-SDF Escalation


    South Front


    Published on Jun 19, 2017
    If youre able, and if you like our content and approach,
    please support the project. Our work wouldnt be possible without your help:

    Subscribe our channel!: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaV1...

    Visit us: http://southfront.org/
    .
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  37. #37
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    Syrian Civil War Map‏ @CivilWarMap 2h
    More information about the pilot of the downed government aircraft http://syriancivilwarmap.com



    Zetseva‏ @juvenil899 1h
    But he called us kurds as "bastards" .....so what now?
    Majd Fahd 🇸🇾‏Verified account @Syria_Protector 1h
    I meant the Americans not kurds
    AlQudsAref‏ @QudsAref 2h
    Replying to @CivilWarMap
    so ,, are kurds saying it was all a mistake ? .......
    Kirk‏ @kroslav 1h
    Kurds didn't down anybody.
    I guess u understand that
    Kirk‏ @kroslav 1h
    what do u have against Kurds?
    what did they do yesterday?
    is the pilot on safe? did they torture and burn him
    like opposition did 2 Russian?
    Dan DeBusschere‏ @DanDeBusschere 6m
    Replying to @CivilWarMap
    If this pilot speaks English,
    I would like to know if there were communications with US pilots
    before he got blasted? Should have been IMO.




    Majd Fahd 🇸🇾‏ Verified account @Syria_Protector 2h
    Here is my cousin Lieutenant colonel Ali Fahd
    when he had an interview with Russian TV at the T4 airbase last year.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwOlMcpswdw



    ^^^ In Russian language
    shōu xnyngkă ma?

  38. #38
    This sounds like an everyday political manouver on the part of the Russians, a 5 second blurb on CNN, etc. A speed bump in the story of one's life. But it isn't. This is wildly scary to those of us a bit more informed than the general public. Basically either the US or the Russians breathe wrong and we will be in a real deal shooting war with each other. Both sides are running headlong into confrontation. Escalation is inevitable.

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by ElevenO View Post
    The day is coming----THE DAY IS COMING----when U.S. and Russian forces will get tangled up with each other somewhere over, or around, Syria. It could be at sea, on land or in the air but, sooner or later, somewhere over there, Russia and the U.S. will end up fighting each other. When it happens, it will be a "game changing" moment not only for the U.S. and Russia but for the rest of the entire world itself, as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaMan View Post
    This sounds like an everyday political manouver on the part of the Russians, a 5 second blurb on CNN, etc. A speed bump in the story of one's life. But it isn't. This is wildly scary to those of us a bit more informed than the general public. Basically either the US or the Russians breathe wrong and we will be in a real deal shooting war with each other. Both sides are running headlong into confrontation. Escalation is inevitable.
    ...and that ^^^ is why I said everyone needs to stand down.

    The consequences of not doing so will be "hard" on all involved.

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by vestige View Post
    ...and that ^^^ is why I said everyone needs to stand down.

    The consequences of not doing so will be "hard" on all involved.
    In certain deep state quarters, this entire Syrian fiasco is purposefully intended - standing down is NOT in their lexicon nor planning documents.

    Period.

    Does President Trump align with those who are currently playing military chicken with the Russians and the democratically elected Syrian government?

    THIS is the question.


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    Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

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