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DISASTER UK: Lancaster Estate tower disaster - death toll at 79, Other Towers Evacuated!
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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Garryowen View Post
    Yes, but it is frequently the result of socialism. The guy in charge thought sprinklers would slow the building of houses. I guess he didn't see any difference in a house and a 26 story apartment building.
    The Torys are the Conservative Party, I gather from reading the news that they vetoed a bill that would have required at least sprinklers and fire alarms in all high-rise buildings (at least according to other sources I've seen but no I don't have links to all of them, but I will look and post when I see another one).

    The really big deal is this was PUBLIC HOUSING that had already been built but was recently refurbished on the taxpayer dime and they STILL didn't put in sprinklers because well, they didn't have to or fire alarms or proper exists etc.

    While the Tory's have a point on too many governmental regulations, I think some basic health and safety (as opposed to nanny state insanity) is an appropriate thing - as my husband point out "This is THE Nanny State that won't let people put up street lights without a health and safety course but it is OK to have huge high rise buildings with no sprinkler systems, fire alarms or proper fire escapes and exits?"

    I smell a really big and probably criminal case of "follow the money" it isn't just the government, a whole lot of people were involved in this and I'll bet it even includes a huge bank or two...
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  2. #162
    Join Date
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    Hoosier-at-heart
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    3,460
    Its stupefying, no sprinklers. I don't think you can find a major casino hotel in Vegas without them by City Ordnance. Public outcry needs to get that into law, for all people of London, not just poor in public housing. There are youtubes now of fire cellphone vids and you can hear people screaming in the distance as they burned to death. I can't watch anymore of them.

    adding this:

    Its still a problem in Chicago too. Luckily London is not a horizon dominated by skyscrapers like Chicago is. The cut off date for upgrade is "built prior to 1975" and that includes many up the north shoreline. Back in 2013/14 the city Fire Commissioner was pushing for building upgrades. The balking came from tenants (rental bldgs) and from condo owners (homeowner associations) as installing sprinklers on each floor either gets tacked onto rent or jacks the HOA fee. The very hardest resistance was from seniors on fixed income, social security who could not absorb cost of sprinkler installment.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...124-story.html

    I saw it firsthand in Edgewater. They have gorgeous city and lake views but life in the clouds is not for me. I worked in Sears Tower in the 80's, knew all the risks of being trapped in high rise for daily 8 hr shifts. High winds, hail, migratory bird strikes, fireworks, window blowouts, elevator breakdowns. After 9-11? Never again! Its the first thing I do in a hotel after check in, look up are there sprinkler heads in the ceiling in the hallway corridors? No sprinklers = no stay.

    Londoners must be pro active now, not wait for borough councils to enact new rules. Every floor needs smoke detectors, they need to formulate evac plans and go ballistic on neighbors over locked or blocked fire stairwell exit doorways. Keep internal fire doors shut to prevent spread. So sad, some deaths could have been avoided. A woman who escaped said the
    stairway became "a molten waterfall", that was likely ruptured gasline pipes they ran along the stairwell ceiling. Cooked those trapped above inside. God awful. Glad to hear Theresa went herself.
    Last edited by homecanner1; 06-15-2017 at 11:12 AM.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by homecanner1 View Post
    Its stupefying, no sprinklers. I don't think you can find a major casino hotel in Vegas without them by City Ordnance. Public outcry
    needs to get that into law, for all people of London, not just poor in public housing. There are youtubes now of fire cellphone vids and you can hear people screaming in the distance as they burned to death. i can't watch anymore of them.
    This is why said the Torys are lucky the election was last week rather than next week; people wouldn't really so much be voting for labor (especially the really left wing bunch in charge right now) but against the Torys who with their EYES OPEN and RECORDED; helped create this situation. They didn't do it alone, they had help but the fact is that they both refused to pass the bill AND they refused to allow the publication of reports on fire safety in high rise buildings and again, this is recorded and people are listening.

    Unfortunately, not many people were listening until the fire started unless of course, they happened to live in this sort of building (that is also becoming clear that this was a sort of "forgotten" issue).
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  4. #164
    From Sky News Live
    BREAKING: Met Police commander Stuart Cundy says six of the 17 confirmed victims were found outside the building.

    When asked about what he thinks the final death toll might be, he said: "I just don't know. I hope it's not inevitable that it's in triple figures."

    ------------------------
    BREAKING: Six victims of the blaze have been provisionally identified but "there is a risk that sadly we may not be able to identify everybody", Met Police says
    -----------------------------------
    BREAKING: 'Bottle thrown' at London Mayor

    A man has been led away by police, following a disturbance as London Mayor Sadiq Khan visited a church close to the tower.

    Sky Correspondent Mark White says: "There are some very, very angry people here - a crowd of about 300 or so.

    "What I understand is that a bottle was thrown towards the London Mayor, there is no sign of the mayor at the moment, just angry people.

    "You can understand that tensions are very high at the moment, people say they feel like a forgotten community and now they believe politicians are coming round after the fact."
    ----------------------------
    About an hour ago (it is now about 5:15 pm Irish/UK time aka BST)

    16:18

    Latest pictures: Smoke still rising from Grenfell Tower


    http://news.sky.com/story/west-londo...ities-10915010
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  5. #165
    And the news keeps leaking out - dribble, dribble, dribble...
    Grenfell Tower fire: Police open criminal investigation into blaze that killed 17 as fears grow death toll could reach 100

    Search for the victims could take 'months'

    Ben Kentish
    @BenKentish
    Thursday 15 June 2017 19:55 BST
    75 comments







    The Independent Online
    fire-grenfell-tower.jpg
    Labour MP David Lammy has led calls for a criminal investigation into what happened AP

    Fears are growing that the number of people killed in the Grenfell Tower fire could reach 100, as police announced they have opened a criminal investigation into the blaze.

    The probe could result in the prosecution of anyone deemed responsible for building or design failures that caused the blaze.

    "We as the police have started an investigation, I mentioned when I was down at the scene this morning that one of our very senior investigating officers is leading that for us," said Metropolitan Police commander Stuart Cundy.

    "We as the police, we investigate criminal offences - I am not sitting here and saying there are criminal offences that have been committed, that's why you do an investigation, to establish it.

    "This will need to be a lot of work between us and other investigating agencies to establish what has happened and why and that is going to take a considerable period of time."

    Mr Cundy added that of the 17 victims confirmed to have died, only six had been formally identified. In a sign of how many people police believe did not make it out of the building alive, the commander said he hoped the final death toll "does not reach treble figures".

    The search for victims could take "months", he said, adding that aside from the six identified bodies, police did not know the other deceased.

    "We cannot release information we do not have and it is so important the information we do release is entirely accurate," he added.


    Labour MP David Lammy has led calls for a criminal investigation, listing claims about the lack of sprinklers and fire doors as well as issues with the cladding in the building.

    His friend, who lived on the 20th floor and is still missing, posted on Facebook at 3am saying that she felt faint, he said.

    The Tottenham MP also said those responsible should be charged with corporate manslaughter.

    "This is the richest borough in our country treating its citizens in this way,” he said.

    "We should call it what it is, it's corporate manslaughter, that's what it is and there should be arrests made, frankly."


    :: Search teams were forced to leave the tower when the fire restarted on Thursday afternoon.

    :: Six bodies - all recovered from outside the building - have been taken to Westminster Mortuary.

    :: Of the 17 known to be dead, six were identified using items such as passports.
    grenfell-inside-1.jpg

    First image of the devastation inside one of the Grenfell Tower flats

    :: One of the first victims was named as 23-year-old Syrian refugee Mohammed Alhajali.

    :: A total of 30 people continue to receive hospital treatment, of which 15 are still in critical care, all of whom have now been identified and reunited with family.

    :: Scores of families are preparing to spend a second night in temporary accommodation.

    As the focus turned to the cladding retrofitted to the building, experts said authorities may now need to ban the material used to cover the outside of Grenfell Tower.

    The cladding – metal panels that were stuck on the outside of the building to help insulate and spruce up the building – has been blamed for the spread of the fire up and across the building.

    The chairman of the National Fire Chiefs Council said that such re-cladding work “certainly needs to be re-considered”.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7792446.html
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  6. #166
    Better viewed at the site, with embeded videos and other difficult to copy information - this is the Daily Mail but I've seen versions of this story elsewhere but most have been taken down; probably under pressure from the government as Boris Johnson is in the cabinet (and is/was a contender for Prime Minister if Mae was forced out of the leadership role) this happened when he was the mayor of London.
    Linkhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4608788/Boris-Johnson-told-rival-stuffed-fire-cuts.html

    Boris Johnson under fire for telling Labour rival who complained about fire service cuts to 'get stuffed' when he was London Mayor

    Footage has resurfaced of Boris Johnson telling Andrew Dismore to 'get stuffed'
    Recorded during the 2013 London Assembly discussion on fire service cuts
    Ex-London Mayor oversaw closure of 10 fire stations and removal of 27 engines

    By Amie Gordon For Mailonline

    Published: 20:47, 15 June 2017 | Updated: 21:48, 15 June 2017



    Boris Johnson has been slammed after footage resurfaced of him telling a Labour politician to 'get stuffed' after he questioned swingeing fire service cuts.

    The video was recorded during a heated debate on frontline services in a meeting of the London Assembly in 2013.

    It shows then-London Mayor Mr Johnson telling Labour Assembly member Andrew Dismore to 'get stuffed' after he accused him of 'lying to the people of London'.

    The clip has been recirculated across social media in the wake of the Grenfell Tower block tragedy, leaving many viewers furious.

    [The Video URL is here: http://video.dailymail.co.uk/preview...296763796.mp4]

    The heated exchanged came amid a discussion on cuts to frontline services in 2013

    Boris’s cuts in 2014 saw the closure of 10 fire stations, the loss of 552 firefighters’ jobs and the removal of 27 engines.

    During the assembly meeting Mr Dismore can be heard asking Mr Johnson: 'How can cutting fire stations, cutting fire engines, cutting firefighters' posts not be a reduction in fire coverage?'


    Mr Johnson replies: 'Because we are improving fire coverage as I have said several times, by continuing to reduce deaths from fire and continuing to reduce the incidence of fire. That is the name of the game'.

    Mr Dinsmore then exclaims: 'You've lied to the people of London in your election.'

    Mr Johnson replied: 'Oh, get stuffed,' before swiftly apologising for the comment.
    Then-London Mayor Mr Johnson told Labour Assembly member Andew Dismore to 'get stuffed' after he accused him of 'lying to the people of London'

    Then-London Mayor Mr Johnson told Labour Assembly member Andew Dismore to 'get stuffed' after he accused him of 'lying to the people of London'


    Mr Dismore can be heard asking Mr Johnson: 'How can cutting fire stations, cutting fire engines, cutting firefighters' posts not be a reduction in fire coverage?'

    After the video resurfaced, London Labour MP Wes Streeting told The Mirror: 'The words 'get stuffed' pretty much sum up Boris Johnson's attitude to all the concerns that were put to him about cuts to police and the fire service while he was mayor.'

    Meanwhile more counsellors are needed for firefighters to deal with the 'devastating' scenes they have witnessed at Grenfell after services to help them were cut, union leaders have urged.


    The Foreign Secretary, pictured today arriving at Downing Street, has faced renewed criticism following his 2014 cuts

    The Fire Brigades Union said the number of counsellors trained to help London firemen and women was cut from 14 to just two under previous mayor Boris Johnson.

    The brigade is now grappling with the legacy of cuts, which included station closures and the removal of fire engines, said FBU general secretary Matt Wrack.

    He said: 'The absolutely devastating scenes that firefighters witnessed at Grenfell will stay with them for the rest of their lives.

    'They are heroic men and women who just get on with the job and don't complain but at the end of the day, they're human and will be affected by what they see.

    'The priority today is to make sure that everything possible is done to take care of their mental wellbeing after such a horrific disaster. We need more counsellors to look after them, not less.'

    A London firefighter who attended the scene, who asked to remain anonymous, said: 'It was absolutely horrific at Grenfell, and it's still very very raw.

    'I have seen some really horrible things that I've never experienced seeing before and hope I will never see again.

    'It will stay with me all my life. We were offered a session with a counsellor which I took up, and it did help, but nothing will get those images out of my mind.'
    Share or comment on this article
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  7. #167
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
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    Between Holy & Crap
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    108,718
    Oh god, here are photos from inside and also a video from the woman who posted live to Facebook. You can't prepare yourself, so just look:



    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news...ectid=11877255
    So when's the Revolution? God or Money? Choose.

  8. #168
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    AL
    Posts
    41,785
    So, Melodi, is the Scottish The National subject to posting made up or exaggerated news stories (like a tabloid)?

    I kind of hope you say yes....I do expect the death toll to be at least 100, but several hundred would be ... mind-boggling.


    posted for fair use and discussion
    http://www.thenational.scot/news/15351243.Police_say_400_reported_missing_in_Grenfe ll_Tower_fire/


    15th June
    Police say 400 reported missing in Grenfell Tower fire
    Andrew Learmonth Journalist


    A woman reads a wall of tributes close to Grenfell Tower in west London


    TWENTY-FOUR hours after the alarm first sounded, at around 1am yesterday morning firefighters finally doused the blaze that had taken hold of the 24-story Grenfell Tower high rise in West London.

    At the time of going to press the death toll was 17, but it will likely increase significantly over the next few days.

    Police say they believe around 400 people are still missing. Many of them elderly, many of them on the higher floors, many of them following the official advice to “stay put”.

    One of those missing is five-year-old Isaac Shawo.

    His mother Genet Shawo was making her way down to safety from their 18th floor flat, with her husband and with Isaac, and three-year-old Luca.

    Isaac was holding a neighbour’s hand and got lost in the thick black smoke, his mother told the Evening Standard.

    “I will not fear the worst. I am still hoping and praying for him. He is a beautiful boy,” she told the paper.

    Prime Minister Theresa May has ordered an immediate full public enquiry into what happened, and why it happened.

    “People deserve answers,” she said. “The inquiry will give them.”

    May faced fierce criticism after visiting the site in North Kensington but failing to make time to meet any of the survivors.

    May spoke police and firefighters in a tightly controlled visit, while Jeremy Corbyn and Mayor of London Sadiq Khan spent time meeting with families and residents and some of the thousands of Londoners who have rushed to the scene to help out.

    Locals and volunteers are furious.

    There has seemingly been little organisation or reaction from local authorities to the tragedy. Many spent their second night in temporary accommodation.

    Labour’s former deputy leader Harriet Harman said that it was “not OK” for the Prime Minister to go to the area but not meet residents.

    “Theresa May should have met Grenfell Fire residents. She should have been prepared to listen to them Not OK to speak at them via TV.”

    After meeting with residents Corbyn issued a statement saying: “I feel very angry that it was possible for the fire to spread in the way it did. I feel very angry that so many lives have been lost when the system didn’t work.

    “The many residents I met today are very angry too; their concerns about the building were not responded to and their questions were not answered. They asked me to speak for them when I get back to Parliament and I will make sure I do”.

    Six victims have been recovered and identified, their bodies found outside the building, while 11 have been located inside but cannot be removed.

    Briefing press, Metropolitan Police Commander Stuart Cundy said: “It may be — and I just don’t know — it may be that ultimately some victims remain unidentified.

    “I won’t know that until we’ve gone through the full recovery from Grenfell Tower and we know exactly what we’ve got and I anticipate that is going to take a considerable period of time.

    “Not just the immediate recovery of the bodies we have found but the full search of that whole building we could be talking weeks we could be talking months — it is a very long process.

    “There is a risk that sadly we may not be able to identify everybody.”

    He refused to speculate on whether the total number dead would reach triple figures, he said: “From a personal perspective, I really hope it isn’t, for those of us that have been down there, it’s pretty emotional, so I hope it is not triple figures, but I can’t be drawn on the numbers.”

    Cundy also said it was wrong to suggest the 400 people reported missing, would mean 400 deaths, as one person was reported missing 46 times.


    “It would be wrong for me to get into numbers that I do not believe are accurate. We do believe that that number [17] will sadly increase.”

    The first victim was named as 23-year-old Syrian refugee Mohammed Alhajali.

    In a statement, the Syria Solidarity Campaign said the civil engineering student had been in his home on the 14th floor when the fire broke out.

    He followed the advice issued to residents and stayed inside his flat, where he spent two hours on the phone to a friend in Syria.

    Meanwhile. the former chair of the Grenfell Tower residents’ association said their warnings of the risks of a catastrophic fire had been ignored by the authorities.

    David Collins, who moved out of the building last year said the tenant management organisation and council had been told about structural issues with the building following the cladding. I just want people to know that if they had listened to the residents, and acted upon what was told to them, it could have been different,” he said.

  9. #169
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    15,304
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilbitsnana View Post
    So, Melodi, is the Scottish The National subject to posting made up or exaggerated news stories (like a tabloid)?

    I kind of hope you say yes....I do expect the death toll to be at least 100, but several hundred would be ... mind-boggling.


    posted for fair use and discussion
    http://www.thenational.scot/news/153...ll_Tower_fire/


    A tower block that size would have about 600 residents, possibly more as the Asians have a tendency to sub let rooms, so in a four bedroom flat, they would live in one room and rent out the other three,

    Most likely they will never have a full body count, as they will never know how many were living in it in the first place, but 400 would be a good start for a ballpark figure,
    Si vis pacem para bellum.

  10. #170
    I am not familiar with that particular paper one way or the other; it looks like a paper dedicated to an Independent Scotland which probably makes them somewhat liberal but not necessarily a tabloid. They ae likely to post articles that make the Troy government in London (or any government in London look bad) but right now that is pretty easy.

    As for 400 missing, that is hard to tell because in addition to Marthanoirs accurate observations on some ethnic groups (including poor native Brits) piling excess people into their apartments (elderly granny, daughter, and her baby, uncles and aunties from the Old Country etc) it was Ramadan and 30 percent of the population of the tower was celebrating a late night holiday. We already KNOW that some of the people missing were not residents but those attending family gatherings and dinners; as were a number of the people who survived.

    Today the news is more Drip Feed with "Missing" listed as 65 by the BBC - I'll see if I can find the article; with other sources still repeating the 100 number but over and over the "we may never know" tells me that oh yes they know but they may never tell us (or try not to) or at least wait for the 1 to 3 years an "investigation" is going to take.

    Meanwhile, Ms. Mae is in serious hot water for "visiting the site" but refusing to meet with survivors due to "security reasons;" the families are furious over that and being a good politician Corbyn is, of course, photographed hugging survivors himself and promising aid etc.

    There are calls for a "million people march" against the government on the fire issues (but also, of course, a great excuse to have a big protest).

    Which means the threads about social unrest may come true, even though it was sort of a Black Swan back door for it to happen (there look to be quite a number of buildings with this cladding, I'm guessing it will take multi-millions if not a billion to fix this problem; which the government technically doesn't have).
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  11. #171
    In the last 30 minutes BBC has raised the number of officially missing into the 70's..drip, drip; Queen and Prince William visit the site..drip, drip - better seen at the link with lots of photos.
    London fire: Queen and Prince William visit Grenfell Tower centre


    The Queen and Prince William are visiting a relief centre helping victims of the Grenfell Tower fire.

    Their visit to the Westway Sports Centre comes after police say some of those killed in the fire at the west London flats may never be identified.

    The BBC understands that at present there could be as many as 76 people missing as a result of the blaze.

    Seventeen people are known to have died but that figure is set to rise, with fears the death toll could exceed 60.

    Emergency services are to spend a third day searching for bodies in the burnt-out Grenfell Tower in North Kensington.

    Fire chiefs say they do not expect to find more survivors, while PM Theresa May has ordered a full public inquiry.

    Police said on Thursday that they had launched a criminal investigation into the fire.

    The prime minister - who faced criticism for not meeting survivors of the tragedy on a visit to the scene on Thursday - said the victims "deserve answers".

    Mrs May is also due to visit those injured in the fire on Friday morning.

    Emergency services were called to the 24-storey residential tower block shortly before 01:00 BST on Wednesday.

    Six victims of the blaze have been provisionally identified.

    However, Metropolitan Police Commander Stuart Cundy said there was "a risk that sadly we may not be able to identify everybody".

    Asked about the number of dead, he said he hoped the death toll would not reach "triple figures".

    He added: "We as the police, we investigate criminal offences - I am not sitting here and saying there are criminal offences that have been committed, that's why you do an investigation, to establish it."
    Image copyright EPA
    Image caption Candles and messages of condolence have been left near Grenfell Tower

    The leader of Kensington and Chelsea Council - the authority that owns the tower block - told BBC Two's Newsnight it would not use the type of cladding fitted to Grenfell Tower in other buildings in the borough.

    The cladding - installed on the tower in a recent renovation - has come under scrutiny, with experts saying a more fire resistant type could have been used.


    Councillor Nicholas Paget-Brown also said there had not been a "collective view" among residents in favour of installing sprinklers during the renovations.

    Meanwhile, Conservative MP Chris Philp said the public inquiry should produce interim findings to ensure swift action can be taken if residents in other tower blocks are at risk.

    On Thursday, the first victim of the fire was named as Syrian refugee Mohammed Alhajali, 23.

    The Syria Solidarity Campaign said Mr Alhajali, a civil engineering student, had been in a flat on the 14th floor when the fire broke out, and had spent two hours on the phone to a friend in Syria.

    He had been trying to get through to his family while he was waiting to be rescued.

    His older brother, Omar, told the BBC he had lost Mohammed on the way out of the building.
    Media captionVictim's brother recounts final call: "He said: 'Why did you leave me?'."

    Stories of how people managed to escape have also emerged.

    Christos Fairbairn, 41, a resident who lived on the 15th floor, described how he collapsed while fleeing the building, only to be rescued by a firefighter.

    Meanwhile, it has emerged that Elpidio Bonifacio, a partially blind man in his 70s, was rescued from his 11th-floor flat after having been seen at the window waving a jumper.

    His son Gordon, 41, said on Facebook that his father was now in intensive care.
    Image copyright Getty Images
    Image caption The prime minister spoke to fire commissioner Dany Cotton as she surveyed the damage

    A political row also erupted, after the prime minister made a private visit to the scene, where she spoke to London Fire Commissioner Dany Cotton and members of the emergency services.

    However, unlike Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and London Mayor Sadiq Khan, Mrs May was not thought to have spoken to families and residents.


    Downing Street said the purpose of her visit was to get a briefing from emergency services and to ensure that they had the resources they needed.
    PM's 'humanity'

    She later announced a public inquiry, but former cabinet minister Michael Portillo said the prime minister "didn't use her humanity".

    Posts on social media suggest residents are planning to march from Grenfell Tower to Kensington and Chelsea town hall on Friday afternoon

    Challenge for fragile government
    Media captionLabour leader Jeremy Corbyn visited the site and spoke to locals

    By Laura Kuenssberg, BBC political editor

    Any government trying to deal with a terrible event like the Grenfell Tower disaster needs sensitivity and nimbleness.

    Ministers have a complicated "to do" list - make sure help gets to where it is required, turn on the taps for emergency cash and show that it is willing and brave enough to work out how it could have happened, in order to give any credible answer to the common cry of "something must be done".

    But this government is already so fragile, facing pressure on many fronts, the PM still reeling from the election result only a week ago.


    Read more from Laura.

    Rydon, the company that carried out the £8.6m refurbishment of Grenfell Tower, said it welcomed Mrs May's announcement of the public inquiry.

    It said its refurbishment "met all required building regulations as well as fire regulation and health and safety standards".

    Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation, which manages the tower for the council, has offered its "sincere and heartfelt condolences" to those affected and said it was working to help the residents of the tower block.

    Housing minister Alok Sharma said the government was working with the local authority to ensure that "every single family will be rehoused in the local area".

    All schools in Kensington and Chelsea have reopened, but two are now operating in other schools.

    Kensington Aldridge Academy is running at Burlington Danes in nearby White City.

    St Francis Assisi, a primary school also situated inside the cordon at the Lancaster West estate, is operating within Sion Manning School nearby.
    Media captionOne eyewitness said he saw people blinking lights within the building

    On Friday, officials said 24 people remained in hospital - 12 of whom were in a critical condition.

    An emergency number - 0800 0961 233 - has been set up for anyone concerned about friends or family.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40298473
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  12. #172
    And in another U Turn, Ms. Mae faces political reality only by this time, the situation is almost comical - it is way too horrific and sad to actually be comical but I am starting to "get" the idea of tragic comedy watching this fiasco.

    Theresa May to visit Grenfell Tower fire victims in hospital after avoiding residents due to 'security concerns'

    Prime Minister was accused of failing to show 'humanity' after refusing to meet victims

    May Bulman
    @maybulman
    2 mins ago

    Indy Politics
    theresa-may-grenfell-tower.jpg

    The Prime Minister visited the scene of the tower block destroyed in the fire disaster in north Kensington Reuters

    Theresa May is to visit victims of the Grenfell Tower fire in hospital after receiving heavy criticism for failing to speak to those directly affected by the disaster.

    The Prime Minister was accused of failing to show “humanity” after she spoke with emergency service crews during a visit to the site on Thursday but refused to meet any survivors of the tragedy and blocked media access.

    It was claimed "security concerns” stopped her from meeting with survivors of the blaze, which killed at least 17 and injured scores more.

    It has now emerged that Ms May is expected to visit survivors who remain in hospital on Friday morning.

    Residents responded with anger to her initial decision not to meet locals, with one reportedly telling Jeremy Corbyn, who also visited the scene, Ms May was “s***”, adding: “Theresa May was here but she didn't speak to any of us.”

    The Labour leader had spoken with volunteers and members of the local community during a visit to St Clements Church, which is being used as a refuge centre.

    Former Tory leader Michael Portillo told the BBC's This Week show on Thursday night that the Prime Minister failed to show humanity, saying she should have been ready to be “shouted at” but instead wanted an “entirely controlled situation”.
    The missing people from Grenfell Tower

    Defence minister Tobias Ellwood meanwhile defended his leader's decision, claiming Ms May was unable to meet residents due to security concerns, while Sajid Javid argued that people show their emotions in different ways.

    Ms May announced following her visit on Thursday that a full enquiry would take place into what caused the inferno that ravaged the building of 120 flats, and vowed to make every effort to ensure people left homeless by the tragedy were rehoused nearby.

    After her proposed visit to meet survivors today, the Prime Minister will chair a cross-Whitehall meeting on how the authorities can help affected communities and victims recover.



    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7792996.html
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  13. #173
    Drip, drip now official toll is 30...
    Death toll from London tower fire rises to 30
    The Met Police confirmed the news this afternoon.
    47 minutes ago 21,649 Views 21 Comments
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    Image: PA Wire/PA Images

    THE DEATH TOLL from Wednesday’s tower block fire in London has risen to 30.

    The Met Police confirmed the news this afternoon, adding that the number will increase.

    Metropolitan Police commander Stuart Cundy told the media that the building, which caught fire on Wednesday morning, is in a hazardous state. Police do not believe that the fire was started deliberate, but Cundy vowed to get to find out “what happened and why”.

    “If criminal offences have been committed it is us who will investigate that.”

    He said that fires which had been breaking out up until this morning were not burning at present and that authorities were now confident that the fire had been extinguished.

    He added that there is not expected to be any survivors.

    “Sadly we do not expect there to be any survivors,” he said.

    “I do believe the number will increase.”

    He said he could not confirm the number of missing people, but said anyone who was being treated in hospital had been identified.

    One of the victims has been named as artist Khadija Saye, according to a tweet by her friend and Labour MP David Lammy.

    Source: David Lammy/Twitter

    Grenfell Tower was home to around 600 people and whole families remain missing after the fire, which forced residents to flee through black smoke down the single stairwell, jump out of windows or even drop their children to safety.

    The fire affected all floors of the 24 storey building, from the second floor up, and at its height 40 fire engines and more than 200 firefighters were at the scene.
    Read: Fires still breaking out at London tower block as police say identification of bodies could take months
    http://www.thejournal.ie/grenfell-to...47811-Jun2017/
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  14. #174
    One thing 9/11 taught me was when officials tell you to stay put, RUN to the exits and GET OUT!

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  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by bethshaya View Post
    One thing 9/11 taught me was when officials tell you to stay put, RUN to the exits and GET OUT!
    That's one of the lessons I learned with doing a role-playing exercise on a Seattle ferry many years ago. I became a sort of evangelist for how to react during an incident, and it's not what they tell you in their recorded announcements!

  16. #176
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    Yesterday the London fire chief said that it may take -weeks- to completely search the building to find all of the bodies.

    At the same time Sky News was running a crawl saying that the "corners" of the building were too dangerous for anyone to enter.

    Then today Theresa May said she was taking immediate steps to see that this sort of tragedy will not happen again, anywhere in Britain.

    What sort of immediate steps are possible to immediately put sprinklers and fire alarms in block housing?

    Then the big question, there are hundreds of buildings with the same or similar cladding as at Grenfalls Tower.

    How is that "immediately" going to be dealt with?
    "The most intriguing point for the historian is that where history and legend meet."

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  17. #177

    It took some digging to find this out...

    But, the residents of that burnt building were predominantly diversities.
    Proud member Alt-Right group "Scientists For Trump". (Smart Americans know he's right.)
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  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaSmith View Post
    But, the residents of that burnt building were predominantly diversities.
    30 percent were Muslim, the rest were a mix of everything including what used to be called "Working Class" white Londoner's; you could see that from the interviews with survivors, everything from guys with Arabic names to good old fashioned Cockney accents (and at least one women from Africa speaking African style English form the CommonWealth areas).

    Basically it was your quite usual mix of people for a Public Housing Tower back in the UK; your going to have families (mostly White or Carribean) who have lived their since the place was built in 1974, to recent Syrian refugees granted asylum (and a lot in between; including quite a number of people with jobs, but jobs that don't pay enough in a city where unless you make 500,000 a year getting an apartment can be quite a challenge so a lot of the service sector people end up in public housing.) I have a friend who works 40 plus hours a week as a security guard and he lives in public housing.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by bethshaya View Post
    One thing 9/11 taught me was when officials tell you to stay put, RUN to the exits and GET OUT!

    On 9-11, those who immediately ran, lived.

  20. #180
    Chanting "we want justice", protesters storm local town hall after deadly London fire

    Friday June 16, 2017 4:57pm BST
    Reuters

    Several hundred protesters chanting "we want justice" stormed a local town hall in London on Friday after a deadly fire at a block of flats killed at least 30 people, Reuters reporters at the scene said.

    The angry protesters barged their way through an automatic door at Kensington and Chelsea town hall and sought to gain entry to an upper floor. Police barred their way and scuffles broke out, a Reuters reporter said.

    They chanted: "We want justice", "bring them out" and "shame on you". A larger crowd of people remained outside. Some people then left the building though others remained inside.

    Tensions in the local community have grown since Wednesday's deadly blaze at the Grenfell Tower in north Kensington which provided social housing for some 600 people.

    There have been demands for answers as to how the blaze was able to engulf the 24-storey building along with complaints that not enough was being done to provide assistance for those left homeless or information about those still missing.

    British Prime Minister Theresa May visited the injured in hospital on Friday but is herself under mounting criticism for not meeting victims of the blaze sooner.

    Opposition Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, London mayor Sadiq Khan, Prince William and Queen Elizabeth, 91, have all visited the local area and anger has been growing in the community.

    While the disaster has prompted an outpouring of generosity, there was also fury at the authorities as the charred tower was cast as a deadly symbol of a divided society.

    (Reporting by Alistair Smout and Jamillah Knowles, editing by Guy Faulconbridge and Michael Holden)


    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-bri...-idUKKBN197256

  21. #181
    Chavez Tactics: Labour Calls for Property Seizures, Government Overthrow After London Fire

    by Liam Deacon
    16 June 2017
    Breitbart.com/London

    Labour's hard-left leadership is using the fallout of the Grenfell Tower disaster to agitate for the private homes of the wealthy to be seized while calling for a populist uprising to bring down the government, in tactics reminiscent of the Venezuelan socialist revolutionary Hugo Chavez.

    “Properties must be found, requisitioned if necessary, to make sure those residents do get rehoused locally,” Jeremy Corbyn, who grew up in a nine-bedroom mansion, told a parliamentary debate yesterday.

    “It cannot be acceptable that in London you have luxury buildings and flats kept as land banking for the future while the homeless and the poor look for somewhere to live”, he added, according to The Times.

    Mr. Corbyn is a long-time supporter of Hugo Chávez and his premiership – which left the “socialist haven” on the brink of collapse – and was characterised by violence and the government seizure of media, private property, and homes.

    Widespread requisitioning of private property has not been seen in the UK since the Second World War, and Mr. Corbyn’s demands come as his party’s emboldened leadership called for mass demonstrations to bring down the government, just a week after a general election.

    Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell, who has named Russian revolutionaries Lenin and Trotsky as his biggest influences, said Labour needed “every union mobilised” and for a million people to “get out on the streets”.

    “We need people doing everything they can to ensure the election comes as early as possible,” the unabashed Marxist declared in a speech to the militant Bakers, Food and Allied Workers Union, reported by the Daily Mail.

    He said the Left needed to “keep the momentum going” to force an early election and called for a “national demonstration” in support of the manifesto under which the Labour party lost their third consecutive general election, just days ago

    Hard-left and militant groups are plotting to hold a revolutionary mass protest on the first of July, with the Shadow Chancellor urging the Trades Union Congress (TUC) to mobilise the proletariat.

    “What we need now is the TUC mobilised, every union mobilised… get out on the streets. Just think, if the TUC put out that call that we want a million on the streets of London in two weeks’ time”, he blasted.

    “The Election result represents a rejection of Tory policies”, claimed far-left group the People’s Assembly, who are coordinating the protest.

    “We need to make sure the full force of that opposition is felt. If we continue to mobilise in huge numbers we can deepen the crisis for the Conservatives”, they continued in a statement.

    Adding: “Protests have sprung up across the country and there are many more planned in the next few days, we’re supporting all actions and events against Theresa May’s attempt at forming a Government.”

    In a speech in 2012, Mr McDonnell said the hard-Left could only win power by resorting to industrial action and “insurrection”.

    “The three methods we use [are] the ballot box, industrial action, what we used to call insurrection but we now politely call direct action,” he said. “The ballot box will not become available to us unless we force the issue through industrial action and through direct action.”

    Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg commented: “This is the hard Left in action. We have just had an election and the result should be respected by all sides. But the hard Left has never had much time for elections.

    “There is something rather bullying about having a march on Parliament in order to force the hand of MPs. It is bordering on undemocratic
    .

    “The people have decided they do not want a Labour government and I think we should be concerned that a man who is effectively the deputy leader of the opposition is urging people to take to the streets to try to overturn that.”


    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017...r-london-fire/

  22. #182
    Labour Calls for Property Seizures, Government Overthrow After London Fire

    Um... correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this apartment building GOVERNMENT OWNED?!! So, they want more of that mess?

    Damn, liberalism truly is a mental disease!

    Summerthyme

  23. #183
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    Lots of pictures of kinda mobs, and videos, at link. I didn't feel like posting them. I can see where this is going:


    Daily Star‏Verified account @Daily_Star 30m30 minutes ago

    #BREAKING Chaotic scenes at Kensington Town Hall now

    --------------

    Protesters STORM TOWN HALL demanding JUSTICE for Grenfell Tower victims

    MOUNTED police have been called in after protesters stormed Kensington Town Hall demanding justice for the Grenfell Tower victims.


    Published 16th June 2017

    Hundreds gathered outside the town hall, near where people died in the London tower block fire on Wednesday morning, demanding answers over the tragedy.

    Demonstrators chanted "justice" and "murderers" as anger from residents boils over.

    But then a break away group broke into the council offices – demanding officials come out and speak to them.

    Security at the building appear to have been overwhelmed after scores of protesters surged forward.

    The angry mob managed to break into the foyer but are not believed to have got into the building proper.

    One of the protest organisers appears to have persuaded them to come back out.

    But after a few moments of calm, the mob surged forward again as workers tried to leave the building.

    Council staff were escorted out of the building by police over fears for their safety.

    At least one person appears to have been attacked as he left the building.

    Earlier, local councillor Eartha Pond, who represents the Queens Park Community Council, said local people are "angry" in the wake of the catastrophic blaze.

    She added there will be "unrest in the streets" if council chiefs don't step in.

    The Kensington community was ripped apart early on Wednesday morning when the tower was engulfed by flames.

    So far at least 30 are confirmed dead but that figure is likely to rise.

    Pond warned that if the authorities don’t act quickly, civil unrest could erupt.

    The 33-year-old, said: "There should be a lot more co-ordinated response – someone needs to take control.

    "Everything has been community led, no-one in authority has taken charge.

    "There's all these donations, which is amazing, but the council aren't distributing it and we desperately need somewhere to store it.

    "That's what's so frustrating: the council need to take responsibility."

    She fears riots could break out of action is not taken.

    Cllr Pond added: "People don't know what's happening.

    "Families don't know who's in hospital or who's missing.

    "There needs to be more information, like a big projector with names of who's been found so people know what's going on.

    "It can't go on like this, with posters up everywhere. It's manic.

    "Some of these people might have been found, but families are still in the dark."

    She added: "If the council don't step up to the plate there will be unrest in the streets; it's that serious.

    "People are so angry and frustrated. No-one from the council has been down here. It's an appalling lack of response."

    There’s set to be a huge rally in Westminster tonight for Grenfell victims.

    More than 1,800 people are said to be planning to attend a rally in Westminster tonight to demand "justice" for Grenfell victims.

    The Facebook event has been listed as taking place at 6pm outside the Department for Communities and Local Government.

    The posting said: "At least 150 people have died in the fire at Grenfell Tower. They deserve justice. We demand answers.

    "Solidarity with the residents of Grenfell Tower. Supported by Grenfell action group, Defend Council Housing, Kensington and Chelsea Momentum, Westway23 and NW London Stand Up to Racism."

    http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/late...wer-Kensington
    So when's the Revolution? God or Money? Choose.

  24. #184
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    The Razor's Edge‏ @AtTheRazorsEdge 7m7 minutes ago

    May Failed To Show Not Just Empathy But Genuine Leadership
    #Trump #uk #theresistance #TrumpRussia #resist #breaking


    PMP Breaking News‏ @PMPBreakingNews 10m10 minutes ago

    Hundreds of protesters chanting “What do we want? Justice!” invaded Kensington & Chelsea town hall. Police just regained control of building



    PMP Breaking News‏ @PMPBreakingNews 13m13 minutes ago

    After visiting St Clement’s Church, Theresa May got in her car under shouts of “shame on you” & “coward, coward”. She didn't speak to anyone
    So when's the Revolution? God or Money? Choose.

  25. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marthanoir View Post
    A tower block that size would have about 600 residents, possibly more as the Asians have a tendency to sub let rooms, so in a four bedroom flat, they would live in one room and rent out the other three,

    Most likely they will never have a full body count, as they will never know how many were living in it in the first place, but 400 would be a good start for a ballpark figure,
    I had read (and posted?) how many people were thought to be living in the building so I knew it was possible to have that many missing/perish. I was just hoping that the horrific 400 number missing (because in this case, missing is dead) was grossly exaggerated.
    Nana to two "little bits", one not-so-little "little bit" and one big "little bit" now several inches taller than me

  26. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilbitsnana View Post
    I had read (and posted?) how many people were thought to be living in the building so I knew it was possible to have that many missing/perish. I was just hoping that the horrific 400 number missing (because in this case, missing is dead) was grossly exaggerated.
    Probably not. I had posted earlier that there was a tweet or something saying only 75 made it out....

    ----------------

    Going the way I thought it would. This is really going to get much uglier, I'm afraid:


    Breaking News‏ @BreakingNLive 4m4 minutes ago

    BREAKING: Protesters arrive at Downing Street in central London screaming "May must go". Hundreds of people there.
    So when's the Revolution? God or Money? Choose.

  27. #187
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    London protests, live coverage,



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y60wDzZt8yg

    screen shot,
    Attached Images
    "The most intriguing point for the historian is that where history and legend meet."

    "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who think they are free."

    Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


  28. #188
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    Why are they protesting? Shouldn't they be having a love concert like after their concert bombing? Chanting we love the moderate corporate elite?

  29. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warm Wisconsin View Post
    Why are they protesting? Shouldn't they be having a love concert like after their concert bombing? Chanting we love the moderate corporate elite?
    Nah, some people want lynch mobs this time, from what I'm seeing.......
    So when's the Revolution? God or Money? Choose.

  30. #190
    i am just not understanding something here.

    wasn't the blond guy (boris, i think his name is) the mayor there for a long time, and then now another guy is the mayor. why in the heck are they getting all up may's butt about this?! isn't it the mayors' responsibility in this? where am i not seeing the connection? someone please show me
    float like a butterfly...

  31. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warm Wisconsin View Post
    Why are they protesting? Shouldn't they be having a love concert like after their concert bombing? Chanting we love the moderate corporate elite?
    When Anglo types are killed...candles & teddy bears.

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  32. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by mzkitty View Post
    Probably not. I had posted earlier that there was a tweet or something saying only 75 made it out....
    .[/B]
    I believe the 75 were the people who were being or had been treated, either at the scene or at the hospital. Then there were survivors standing outside of the building. And the others inside.

  33. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzkitty View Post

    PMP Breaking News‏ @PMPBreakingNews 10m10 minutes ago

    Hundreds of protesters chanting “What do we want? Justice!” invaded Kensington & Chelsea town hall. Police just regained control of building
    MOUNTED police have been called in after protesters stormed Kensington Town Hall demanding justice for the Grenfell Tower victims.
    That "justice" crap is a globalist meme, the negroes use it here as a weapon, and you will see it used there as a weapon as well. I find it interesting that suddenly massive protests are being formed and overthrow of the government is the heart of it, just exactly as what is happening here to root out any politician that does not march lockstep with communism/globalism/NWO.

    I find it revolting that these scum use victims as a platform to reform the world into their utopia-look at Venezuela, corbyn's idyllic government. They want us all dead, and are using the dead to obtain that goal; the world unrest is heating up quickly. Birthpangs...
    Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is Liberty. II Cor. 3:17

  34. #194
    Gregor Peter‏ @L0gg0l · 3h3 hours ago

    PROTESTERS SHOUT "COWARD" AS UK PM MAY LEAVES CHURCH THROUGH SIDE-ENTRANCE -- WITNESSES #GrenfellTowerFire

  35. #195
    Gregor Peterþ @L0gg0l · 2h2 hours ago

    This will get interesting: Grenfell protesters now marching towards Downing Street -- @RyanJHooper

  36. #196
    Anna Doble‏Verified account @annadoble · 37m37 minutes ago

    Chants of "May must go!" & "Blood on your hands!" at Oxford Circus. #GrenfellTower
    Attached Images

  37. #197
    Anna Doble‏Verified account @annadoble · 47m47 minutes ago

    #GrenfellTower protesters heading up Regent Street and aiming for Downing St. The scene outside the BBC right now...
    Attached Images

  38. #198
    Anna Doble‏Verified account @annadoble · 14h14 hours ago

    Syrian refugee who escaped war only to die in #GrenfellTower is first victim named: Mohammed Alhajali

  39. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by summerthyme View Post
    Um... correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this apartment building GOVERNMENT OWNED?!! So, they want more of that mess?

    Damn, liberalism truly is a mental disease!

    Summerthyme
    No they want the people in government that allowed this to happen and even voted against a bill that would have required sprinklers and fire alarms in high rise buildings to be sacked; as I said at the start, the Tory's can be grateful the election was held last week and not this week/next week or them would be toast.

    It isn't that everyone would be voting for extreme labor (which at the moment is being led by an old socialist) but against the folks who allowed this to happen.

    As for Mr. Corbyn, what he is suggesting is that EMPY apartments owned by banks and investment first that they are sitting on in hopes of getting even higher rents/payments for them should be confiscated;. I'm not saying I agree with it, but he isn't suggesting that the wealthy be kicked out of homes they already live in.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  40. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by hunybee View Post
    i am just not understanding something here.

    wasn't the blond guy (boris, i think his name is) the mayor there for a long time, and then now another guy is the mayor. why in the heck are they getting all up may's butt about this?! isn't it the mayors' responsibility in this? where am i not seeing the connection? someone, please show me
    Because Mae is the Prime Minister and leader of the party that allowed this stuff to happen under its watch "The Blond Guy" is the one I posted the article about telling the fire safety people to "get stuffed" and he's now the Foreign Secretary (in Mae's cabinet) the jerk in the article who said "it wasn't the government's responsibility" to require sprinklers for buildings also has an active role in her government (can't remember exactly what but he's there).

    "The Blond Guy" WAS a candidate to replace Mae if she was forced to step down because of the election losses but I suspect he's toast for a leadership role at least for a long time (he's also the one who didn't realize he was a US Citizen and the US kept not allowing him to renounce his citizenship because they wanted IRS taxes on his UK inheritance).
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

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