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DISASTER UK: Lancaster Estate tower disaster - death toll at 79, Other Towers Evacuated!
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  1. #241
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    Can't say how true this is, but yesterday I was reading the death toll is much and the media and part of government is covering it up, why they would do this I have no idea.
    Now they are saying just do the simple math that there is 6 flats (apartments) per-floor and there is 24 story/floors and it is known many of these apartments had more people living in them than there should have been.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Publius View Post
    Can't say how true this is, but yesterday I was reading the death toll is much and the media and part of government is covering it up, why they would do this I have no idea.
    Now they are saying just do the simple math that there is 6 flats (apartments) per-floor and there is 24 story/floors and it is known many of these apartments had more people living in them than there should have been.
    Not only that but there were a lot of visitors over for the Muslim holiday dinner; so they were not only overcrowded but just people dropping in; it is already known that some visitors didn't make it.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  3. #243
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    Death toll raised to 79.

  4. #244
    Interesting to consider what one's options would be if trapped in that situation. All I can think of is wetting a bunch of blankets or whatever, covering yourself with them in the tub while capturing air, and hoping to wait it out while breathing slow.

    A parent might conceivably cocoon-up a baby that way.

  5. #245
    This is the Daily Mail so not yet verified but though they are a tabloid "rag" sometimes they get the breaking news first and publish it because if they use the right language they can always retract later - lots and lots of photos at the link.

    Rescue teams 'find bodies of 42 people crammed into one room in Grenfell Tower as they desperately tried to shield from the fire'

    It's been claimed bodies of 42 people were found in one room at Grenfell Tower
    Man was filmed saying his friend, a firefighter, saw the horrific scene himself
    The number has not yet been confirmed by police or the fire service
    Police have confirmed 79 are thought to have died but the true figure is thought by residents and locals to be much higher


    By Katie French For Mailonline

    Published: 16:17, 19 June 2017 | Updated: 16:54, 19 June 2017

    The bodies of up to 42 people were found in just one room by search and rescue teams combing Grenfell Tower after the fatal fire last week, it has been claimed.

    It is believed the remains of the group were discovered inside one of the flats by recovery teams who have been searching the White City tower block over the last few days.

    A video uploaded on YouTube shows an unnamed man speaking in front of the burned out tower. He said: 'He said: 'I've got a friend who works for the fire brigade here, yeah? Yesterday on the phone he said they found about 42 bodies in one room, all hiding together. No-one knows that.'

    A video uploaded on YouTube shows an unnamed man speaking in front of the burned out tower. He claims the bodies of 42 people were found in just one room
    Residents tried to escape from Grenfell Tower (pictured) in west London in the early hours of Wednesday morning
    +11

    Residents tried to escape from Grenfell Tower (pictured) in west London in the early hours of Wednesday morning

    'It's only because we know the brother, he's a fireman, that he told us this - but he can't tell you lot that.

    'He can't come out because he'll probably get the sack or something. But he said they found 42 bodies in one room, bruv, in one room. From children to old people.'

    The number has not been confirmed by police or the fire service.

    A spokesman for London Fire Service said he would be unable to confirm or deny the information and said the police were handling the investigation.

    And a spokesman for the Met Police said he would not be able to advise on numbers or information relating to the searches so far.

    One of the worst disasters in recent history, police have confirmed 79 are thought to have died but the true figure is thought by residents and locals to be much higher.

    A friend of victim, who wished to remain unnamed, told MailOnline close to the scene of the tragedy: 'They found 42 bodies in one flat. The word tragic doesn't even begin to describe it. It's heartbreaking. Maybe they went there to comfort each other.'

    The landscape of the Lancaster Estate in White City changed forever in the early hours of Wednesday morning after a fire broke out around 1.30pm.
    In this image released by Metropolitan Plice, a firefighter is seen surveying the damage outside the entrance to Grenfell Tower
    +11


    Harrowing images show the charred remains of flats and hallways that were once home to hundreds of families before the blaze broke out on Wednesday morning

    Allegedly told to stay in their rooms, residents at the scene say people were sentenced to death when they were told not to leave.

    Noha Baghdady's brother Hesham Rahman lived on the 21st floor of Grenfell Tower, on the estate where he grew up.

    A retired hairdresser and diabetic, 57-year-old Rahman has not been seen or heard from since he heartbreakingly told his mother he was running out of battery on the fateful morning when flames engulfed the tower block building in North Kensington, London.

    Describing the last known moments of Heshman, Noha told MailOnline: 'Our mother called him because she could see fire from where she lives. She told him 'get out of there son, you need to get out'.

    'He called the police and asked for help but he was told to stay put in the flat and to lock the door. He was trapped.'

    With tears in her eyes, Noha described how her brother was funny and had a great sense of humour.

    'The last time I spoke to him was only the day before, he sent me a hilarious video on WhatsApp that's the sort of man he was,' she said.

    Distraught, Noha and her husband said they believed the authorities were deliberately keeping the death toll low.

    'The government needs to declare this as a disaster, someone needs to be held accountable,' they said.

    A retired hairdresser, Hesham stopped working a few years ago after suffering from diabeties which caused his feet to swell.

    In a separate harrowing incident related to the tragedy a mother-of-two recorded her final moments when she became trapped in her flat on the 23rd floor.

    In a gut-wrenching video, Rania Ibrham, 30, could be heard asking for help as her frantic neighbours tried to flee their homes on the smoke-filled 23rd floor.

    The distressing footage shows the mother-of-two desperately trying to escape but when she realises the she can't leave, she begins to pray asking for help as those online were helpless to save her.

    The haunting video has been etched into her friend Fatima's memory who says she can't get the thought out of her mind. Living opposite the enormous tower block where Rania lived, Fatima said she was awake when the fire broke out but was told not to enter the building or to help by the police.

    Speaking to MailOnline close to the scene four days on, Fatima broke down and collapsed after describing her rage at a council who 'ignored' them and authorities who told her friend to stay inside.

    'They have done nothing, she called for help. They were told to stay up there but she died and her children have died,' Fatima cried.

    'The government and the council haven't done anything, it's only the community. We have come together, they thought we wouldn't but we did,' she said.

    On the upsetting video Fatima has watched, she said: 'She kept asking 'how' 'how' 'how'? She wanted to get out but she couldn't, I can't sleep, all I can hear is the screams from the building.'

    Tonight as tempers flared outside one of the cordons by the North Kensington tower block, Fatima addressed a crowd about her outrage as nearby tv presenters prepared for a live broadcast.

    'People need to know the truth,' she said. 'These were our children, our friends who died.'

    Rania's devastated husband Hassan Hassan returned to the country from Egypt after hearing the news. Along with his wife, their two daughters Fethia, 5, and Hania, 3, are missing and presumed dead.

    Fatima said: 'He just stood outside the building and was crying and crying, what can he do? He's lost his wife and his two children. It's heartbreaking.'

    Describing her friend, she said: 'She was a lovely, lovely person. She was so nice. She would do anything for anyone.'

    According to her Facebook, Rania studied economics and political science at the University of Oxford and worked in the community as the executive of a homeless outreach team.

    On Saturday the Met Police announced the number of expected dead had risen from 30 up to 58 though residents on the ground told MailOnline they anticipated the true figure would be much higher.

    A woman who asked not to be named was once of the first to witness the incident after emergency services were alerted on Wednesday morning.

    'That place is a graveyard in the sky. There were 600 people there and ask anyone, where are the survivors? Who has seen the survivors? There are loads of volunteers and people who saw it, but hardly anyone made it out. I heard people begging for help and begging for their lives. Most of those people who died had to be children. I haven't been able to sleep,' she cried.

    A woman close to the scene heckled the television crews and asked for the media to 'tell the truth'.


    'There are more than 58 dead, it's in triple figures,' she called.

    The Met Police has been contacted for comment.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ell-Tower.html
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  6. #246
    My solution is to never, ever, EVER live in a high rise or even 2 story apartment building.

    In a van by the river is better.
    Asato Ma Sad Gama - leave illusion, come to the truth
    Tamasi Ma Jyotir Gama - leave the darkness, come to the light

    You may not be interested in Islam
    But Islam is VERY interested in you

  7. #247
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    Per Sky News, there are survivors and missing people who reported, that in the midst of the fire, the fire services were -still- advising residents to stay -in- their apartments.
    "The most intriguing point for the historian is that where history and legend meet."

    "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who think they are free."

    Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Be Well View Post
    My solution is to never, ever, EVER live in a high rise or even 2 story apartment building.

    In a van by the river is better.
    Boy, you've got THAT right!

    Summerthyme (but I'm sure that's illegal in formerly Great Britain)

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by summerthyme View Post
    Boy, you've got THAT right!

    Summerthyme (but I'm sure that's illegal in formerly Great Britain)
    Yes, it can be illegal; it isn't illegal to refuse to move to the highrise you are assigned to if you are on the public housing list - but if you don't go; you will be denied access to other housing. Just ask the survivors who were promised to be housed locally and then were told if they didn't accept housing 250 MILES away (totally different area of the country) the would be considered "voluntarily homeless." That was also true of the survivors moved to the top floor of another high rise - both of these stunts have already hit the papers.

    The thing is, 20 to 30 years ago I'm sure local councils and governments could get away with this sort of thing because no one was really listening and no one really cared - the government could just say "the survivors are being taken care of." But today with the internet, mobile phones and 24/7 reporting the news that a terrified family have been told "oh that stay close to your old home, well we lied; either move 250 miles away or sleep in a ditch" goes viral pretty quickly.

    Of course, rumors and falsehoods can be passed this way..
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  10. #250
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    Fair Use Cited
    ----------------
    London tower fire: Video reveals disbelief of firefighters heading into 'Towering Inferno'

    Updated about 10 hours ago

    Footage recorded from inside a fire engine making its way to the Grenfell Tower fire shows the shock and disbelief of firefighters as the scale of the blaze becomes apparent.

    The mobile phone footage, recorded by an unknown firefighter travelling in an engine on London's Westway, shows flames engulfing the 24-storey tower in the early hours of the morning.

    "Is that — that's not a real block with people in it..?" one fireman asks. "F*** me".

    Another voice asks "How the f*** are we gonna get in that?"

    "There's f***ing kids in there," another voice says.

    As the engine gets closer to the tower, the true scale of fire becomes apparent.

    "That's a real block," says one man.

    "Mate, it's Towering Inferno, innit," replies another.


    London firefighters fought to hold back tears on Monday as they gathered to observe a minute's silence in memory of the victims of the Grenfell Tower fire, which is now known to have killed at least 79 people.

    "We tried, we're sorry" read the words on a red t-shirt laid by firefighters near the memorial wall where people have been leaving flowers and written messages for the victims and those still missing people.

    One firefighter, in his black protective suit with FIRE emblazoned in yellow on the back, embraced a distraught woman who had photos of a missing person printed on her top.

    Briefing reporters at police headquarters, Metropolitan Police Stuart Cundy became visibly upset as he described conditions in the charred tower, where a search and recovery operation is expected to last weeks.

    "I was in there myself and went all the way to the top floor and it is incredibly hard," he said, before pausing as tears welled up in his eyes.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-2...morial/8633348



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUtjSspO_BU
    "The most intriguing point for the historian is that where history and legend meet."

    "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who think they are free."

    Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


  11. #251
    Sadly I suspect London is going to loose a few firefighters over the next few yearsto PTSD; they did their duty and they did their best, but the things they saw were so grim that for the most part only soldiers in combat zones (with civilians) are likely to have seen anything near that bad.

    I gather highly trained and professional medical staff were also extremely affected; again they did what they had to and did it well during the crises, but now the horror is really sinking in...

    I also noticed that there is very little in the on-line papers (UK or Ireland) today about this, and I did have to wonder if the UK government "put in a word" (perfectly legal) because there was so much news last night?

    I mean the story will be back, especially if that UK Daily Mail article is anywhere close to the truth (and by saying "someone said this" they have a get out of jail free card if it isn't); but if it is the case even if those 46 people in one room were already counted (which would surprise me) that still isn't something that is going stay out of the more MSM very long.

    It also won't surprise me if true that it was a room at the end of an area that people were fleeing too and found themselves blocked in; that's a really big party even for a holiday dinner...
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  12. #252
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    I'm surprised at the lack of any real news the last 24 hours.

    If the authorities are attempting to "slow walk" this story then the backlash is going to be even worse.

    A lack of official news is only going to breed rumors and speculation along with hardening public perceptions against the government. The authorities need to show steady progress.

    I am shocked at the apparent slow pace in recovering bodies. I appreciate the difficulty but the first priority has to be removing the victims so a proper fire investigation can begin.

    Truth be known, the apartment block is not -that- big as witnessed by the fact that only one stairwell was available.
    "The most intriguing point for the historian is that where history and legend meet."

    "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who think they are free."

    Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


  13. #253
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    Fair Use Cited
    ---------------
    Grenfell Tower residents were promised fire-resistant cladding five years ago

    Residents asked for fire-retardant panels in 2012, documents show, but cheaper, plastic-filled cladding was later fitted instead.

    23:44, UK,
    Tuesday 20 June 2017

    By Gerard Tubb, Sky News Correspondent

    Residents of Grenfell Tower were promised that fire-resistant cladding would be fitted to their building in 2012, before plans were changed and a cheaper, flammable covering was fitted.

    Decorative cladding called Reynobond PE was fitted to the outside of the west London tower block during renovations last year.

    Made of flammable plastic sandwiched between aluminium sheets, it is being blamed for spreading the fire from one floor to another in the 24-storey block.

    It will be a major focus of the investigations into why so many were killed in the devastating blaze last week - with at least 79 people confirmed dead or missing, presumed dead.

    Documents submitted to Kensington and Chelsea Council's planning department show residents were consulted in 2012 over the renovations and were asked what cladding they wanted.

    They show they chose a fire-resistant product called VMZ Composite which was said to have "many benefits".

    A newsletter handed to tenants and submitted with the planning application stated: "Various cladding options have been shown to residents with the composite cladding system being favoured by the majority."

    The document clearly stated the cladding had "fire retardancy".

    Two years later, a cheaper scheme was agreed and new proposals were approved by council planners.

    Instead of the fire-resistant panels chosen by residents, cheaper plastic-filled cladding was fitted.

    Last weekend, the Government claimed Reynobond PE should not have been used - with Chancellor Philip Hammond and trade minister Greg Hands both saying it was banned.

    However, a panel of fire safety experts speaking at this week's FIREX exhibition in London said it is impossible to say whether the cladding is banned or not.

    Fire risk management consultant Stephen Mackenzie said the Government should have reviewed building regulations years ago.

    "You can do secondary desktop studies to say you've done a check and balance and are comfortable with (flammable) material," he explained.

    "It's down to the individual designer's specifier and or specialist installer - there is no straight answer."

    Jim Glockling, technical director at the Fire Protection Association, criticised the design process that allows flammable cladding to be used.

    "I have heard expressions of concern about some of these assessments, for some time, that they may not be as rigorous as they ought to be," he said.

    http://news.sky.com/story/grenfell-t...s-ago-10921701
    "The most intriguing point for the historian is that where history and legend meet."

    "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who think they are free."

    Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


  14. #254
    The only stories you see right now are the sort of "I was a firefighter and this is my story" or tiny "some survivors sleep on streets or their cars - says Labor" (maybe true, maybe not); absolutely nothing of real substance besides the article you posted. Not that figherfighter stories are not "real" just they don't tell us much we don't know).
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  15. #255
    Doing something right, notice the government did an emergency PURCHASE of the intended to be pricey flats; that was probably the best way forward rather than confiscation of empty ones (offer to buy them instead).

    Of course, the government had to do SOMETHING and FAST; because of reports of survivors sleeping homeless on the streets and the massive screw up when the promised to house people nearby, only for some survivors to be told to move to another town 250 miles away or not receive any help.

    With the government in near collapse before it really starts (talks have broken down with the DUP) they couldn't afford this sort of thing to keep on going.


    Grenfell Tower: Victims to be permanently rehoused in £2bn luxury Kensington apartment block

    Prices in the upmarket High Street Kensington block start at £1.5m

    Samuel Osborne
    @SamuelOsborne93

    The Independent Online
    kensington-row.jpg
    Extra public money has been found to fit out the flats more quickly, and the developer has taken on more staff and relaxed working hours rules berkleygroup.co.uk

    The survivors of the Grenfell Tower fire are to be permanently rehoused in a £2bn luxury apartment block in Kensington, the Government has announced.

    Some 68 one, two and three-bedroom flats have been bought by the Government at the Kensington Row development in upmarket High Street Kensington, Sajid Javid, the Communities Secretary, said.


    The announcement comes a week on from the disaster, which left at least 79 dead.

    The properties are "newly built social housing" at a site where private homes are on offer from £1,575,000 to £8.5 million and boast a 24-hour concierge and a private cinema, according to the website of developer St Edward.

    The Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG) said the "expectation is that these new properties will be offered as one of the options to permanently rehouse residents from Grenfell Tower".

    Extra public money has been found to fit out the flats more quickly, and the developer has taken on more staff and relaxed working hours rules, DCLG said, with the aim of having the homes ready by the end of July.

    It comes after much anger from survivors and victims' families at the official response to the deadly blaze.

    An independent public advocate to help bereaved families after major disasters was announced in the Queen's Speech earlier on Wednesday.

    'Empty homes should be requisitioned to rehouse Grenfell victims'

    St Edward is a joint venture between Prudential and the Berkeley Group around 1.5 miles from Grenfell Tower.

    Tony Pidgley, the Berkeley Group chairman, said: "We've got to start by finding each of them a home.

    "Somewhere safe and supportive, close to their friends and the places they know, so they can start to rebuild their lives.

    "We will work night and day to get these homes ready."

    The homes will be in two affordable housing blocks at the site, and were purchased by the City of London Corporation in a deal brokered by the Homes and Communities Agency (HCA).
    grenfell-tower-tribute.jpg

    HCA chairman Sir Edward Lister said the agency "stands ready to help all those affected by this terrible incident".

    He added: "We are identifying suitable properties in the local area to rehouse residents as quickly as possible, as well as offering support to local authorities to run checks on any high-rise buildings.

    "We will do everything in our power to help those whose lives have been blighted by this horrendous fire and reassure those who live in similar buildings that their homes are safe."

    Last week, the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, called for empty homes near the scene of the fire in north Kensington to be requisitioned to house families.

    The Kensington Row announcement came as more than 70 health and safety organisations and experts sent an open letter to the Prime Minister, Theresa May, urging her Government to "scrap its approach to deregulation of health and safety legislation" in the light of the disaster.

    A City of London Corporation spokeswoman said: "We are ready to do everything we can to help the victims of the terrible fire at Grenfell Tower.

    "We already provide council housing across seven London boroughs and are committed to delivering 3,700 new homes on sites across the capital.

    "These plans are being discussed and agreed in principle as matter of urgency as part of the response by councils across London to support the team working on recovery efforts."
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7800856.html
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  16. #256
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    Been waiting for the "we may never know" narrative to start and here we go.

    Also an amazing revelation is that some residents got their government subsidized apartments at well below market rates, in one of the most expensive areas of London or the UK for that matter, and then they rented their apartments out to somebody else and made a tidy profit on the difference.

    Now I see how you can get these massively overcrowded, and thus dangerous living conditions.

    A mother, her brother, and her sister along with their assorted siblings all have applied for and have received their own subsidized housing apartment.

    The brother and the sister decide to move in with their mother and sublet their own apartments to somebody else for a tidy profit. The brother and the sister pay their mother a stipend to live there and everybody makes a nice guaranteed income by illegally subletting government housing.

    Fair Use Cited
    ---------------
    London fire: Death toll at Grenfell Tower may never be known due to irregular sublets

    WorldIANSJun, 21 2017
    12:44:14 IST

    London: The death toll from the horrific tower block blaze in London may never be known because some of the apartments in the building may have been irregularly sublet, according to a lawyer.

    At least 79 people lost their lives due to the blaze that destroyed the 24-story tower block in the Kensington district of the city last week, according to the London Metropolitan Police.

    The police said the death toll was expected to rise, Xinhua news agency reported.

    However, Victoria Vasey, director of the North Kensington Law Centre, told the media that because of the irregular property tenancies in the building, it was impossible to accurately know how many people were in the building at the time of the blaze.

    "A lot of people were irregular in their tenancies and some were subletting. Some of them were illegal sub-tenancies," Vasey said.

    The apartments in the building were rented to families and people nominated by local authority the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea (RBKC) as part of its legal obligations to provide housing.

    The rents of the tenancies were below market levels. Some tenants may have sublet their tenancies illegally to make money.

    The weekly Tuesday meeting of the government cabinet discussed the continued response to the fire and aid for survivors.

    The MP for the area, Emma Dent-Coad, told the media that survivors of the blaze had been sleeping in cars and in parks because they don't know where to go and they aren't being looked after.

    The response in the wake of the fire has been strongly criticized by politicians and the media. The British government has replaced the area Council with a panel formed by charities and other municipal bodies in London.

    Published Date: Jun 21, 2017 12:44 pm | Updated Date: Jun 21, 2017 12:44 pm

    http://www.firstpost.com/world/londo...s-3730323.html
    "The most intriguing point for the historian is that where history and legend meet."

    "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who think they are free."

    Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Baron View Post
    Been waiting for the "we may never know" narrative to start and here we go.
    That was pretty much baked in (pardon the phrase) from the start, after seeing the fire.

  18. #258
    Toxic gases released during Grenfell Tower fire may have caused some deaths

    Experts say insulation boards on the outside of Grenfell Tower may have filled flats with hydrogen cyanide when they caught fire.

    21:33, UK, Wednesday 21 June 2017
    preview image
    Video: Grenfell fire released deadly gas

    By Paul Kelso, Health Correspondent

    Insulation boards fitted to the outside of Grenfell Tower gave off highly toxic hydrogen cyanide gas which may have contributed to the deaths of some of the 79 confirmed victims.

    Fire toxicity experts have told Sky News the insulation boards installed during a refurbishment of the tower produce the deadly gas when they burn, and their positioning meant every flat could have been filled with enough gas to kill those inside.

    At least three of those injured in the fire have been treated with an antidote for hydrogen cyanide poisoning in hospital, and the number of those affected may be higher.

    The gas could have incapacitated some residents, but establishing its role in the cause of death may be impossible because of the condition of the victims.

    King's College Hospital confirmed to Sky News that three of the 12 patients it received from the fire were treated with the hydrogen cyanide antidote Cyanokit.

    Four other hospital trusts declined to comment on the treatment administered to those injured in the fire.

    An initial 68 patients were taken to six hospitals across London, with 18 receiving critical care and some put into induced comas to aid in the recovery of damaged airways.

    As of Wednesday morning, 10 people were still being treated in four hospitals, six of them in critical care.
    preview image

    The insulation used at Grenfell Tower was made of Polyisocyanurate (PIR), rigid plastic foam sandwiched between two sheets of aluminium foil that supplied in 15cm-thick boards.

    The PIR itself is flammable, but the aluminium foil is intended to disperse flames and prevent it catching fire.

    The boards were fitted against the exterior wall of Grenfell Tower, behind the cladding that was installed to improve the appearance of the building.

    Richard Hull, professor of chemistry and fire science at the University of Central Lancashire, told Sky News that the gas produced by the insulation when it burned may have been deadly.

    "The outside wall of the building had 150mm of PIR foam (fitted), and once the fire had spread to that every flat would have its own source of PIR foam, which would have produced enough hydrogen cyanide to kill all the people in that flat," he said.
    Documents show Grenfell Tower residents were consulted about cladding in 2012
    Video: Different cladding promised at Grenfell

    Professor Hull co-authored a peer-reviewed study in 2011 into the fire toxicity of six insulation materials which was published in the Energy & Building journal. The study established that PIR was the most toxic.

    The report also warned that while modern, lightweight building materials are cheaper to produce and offer improved thermal insulation, they pose a greater risk than traditional materials in the event of fire.

    Professor Hull said the warnings in his report should have been heeded.

    "It's been an accident waiting to happen and unfortunately we've got to the stage now where the accident has happened and we're standing here saying 'I told you so'.

    "It would have been much better if people had listened to us earlier on when we published the report."

    The insulation board was manufactured by Celotex, who say that if fitted correctly it is the first PIR insulation board that can meet regulations for use on buildings above 18m (59ft) tall.

    When contacted for comment, Celotex referred Sky News to a statement on its website published last Friday.

    It said: "As with the rest of the nation our thoughts continue to be with those affected by the terrible fire at Grenfell Tower in London.

    "On Wednesday, as soon as we were able to, we confirmed that our records showed a Celotex product (RS5000) was purchased for use in refurbishing the building.

    "This product has a fire rating classification of Class 0, in accordance with British Standards.

    "We will of course assist the relevant authorities fully with any enquiries they have."
    http://news.sky.com/story/toxic-gase...eaths-10922685
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  19. #259
    This could get intereting, now obviously trying to put blame on "landlords" I do wonder how many of these buildings will now be declared "unsafe" and the residents bascially kicked out (perhaps as "landlord"/corporations just declare bankruptcy and walk away? This isn't a plan this looks like an attempt to "pass the buck" since many of the buildings affected are already public housing or partly public housing.

    A similar situation in Ireland (caught before a fire occurred and a different problem) resulted in first residents (mostly condo owners) told they would have to pay the mutlimillion dollar bill, then when it became obvious most simply could not and would walk away, become homeless and need public housing; banks were pretty much forced to "forgive" the loans, the place was cleared out and the tenants found "other accomidation."


    Grenfell Tower fire: 'Combustible' cladding in use on other high-rises across UK, says Theresa May

    Harriet Harman describes revelation as 'chilling'

    Samuel Osborne
    @SamuelOsborne93
    Thursday 22 June 2017 10:24 BST
    73 comments

    Theresa May: Government tests show other towers at risk after Grenfell disaster
    Popular videos

    Tests on tower blocks following the Grenfell Tower fire has shown cladding on "a number" are "combustible," the Prime Minister has said.

    Theresa May said local authorities and fire services concerned are taking "all possible steps" to ensure the buildings are safe and residents have been informed.

    She said the Government had arranged to test cladding on all relevant tower blocks as a precaution.

    "A number of these tests have come back as combustible," she told the House of Commons.

    "The relevant local authorities and local fire services have been informed and as I speak they are taking all possible steps to ensure buildings are safe and to inform affected residents."

    Harriet Harman, a Labour MP, described the revelation as "chilling".

    Ms May went on to urge any landlords who own tower blocks to send samples for testing as soon as possible.

    She said any results will be "communicated immediately to local authorities and local fire services."

    The Prime Minister said: "Land lords have a legal obligation to provide safe buildings and where they cannot do that we expect alternative accommodation to be provided.

    "We cannot and will not ask people to live in unsafe homes."

    Ms May, making a statement to the Commons, said "no stone will be left unturned" in the inquiry.

    She also said: "For any guilty parties there will be nowhere to hide."

    Ms May said she expects an interim report to be produced as "early as possible" by the chair of the inquiry.

    She also said it was right for Nicholas Holgate, the Kensington and Chelsea Council chief executive, to resign.

    The Prime Minister also said the tragedy will not be used to carry out immigration checks on those affected by the tragedy or on those providing "vital" information to identify victims or to assist the criminal investigation.

    The Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, said the residents of Grenfell Tower were "let down both in the immediate aftermath and so cruelly beforehand".

    He said the public inquiry "must establish the extent and by who".

    "At least 79 people are dead - it is both a tragedy and an outrage because every single one of those deaths could and should have been avoided," he added.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7802191.html
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  20. #260
    I think the factoid that made my head explode in this entire, tragic f'up was when I read that the difference between SAFE cladding and the stuff they used was @ 5000 pounds, total!!! WTF??? They killed this many people to save a little over six thousand bucks?!!!!

    I want to know who in the firm selling this toxic crap is related to a politician!

    Summerthyme

  21. #261
    What was the car that was turned into a gasoline bomb to save a buck or two per copy?

  22. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by bw View Post
    What was the car that was turned into a gasoline bomb to save a buck or two per copy?
    The Ford Pinto.

    IIRC

    The Pinto's gas tank was all the way back near the rear bumper and a modest collision would allow suspension components to pierce the tank in a catastrophic manner as the gas tank was pushed by the bumper. Not an issue on full size cars but a big problem on compact cars.

    A small simple plastic shield was considered to protect the tank from the suspension components but the shield was not used on production vehicles as a cost saving measure.

    Sold by Ford at the same time, the German made Mercury Capri had the gas tank nowhere near the back bumper. The gas tank was behind the back seat above the rear suspension thus allowing a much greater "crush zone" in the event of a rear collision.

    One could say the "cladding' used in the UK towers is also of a fundamentally flawed design exacerbated by penny pinching economic compromises.
    "The most intriguing point for the historian is that where history and legend meet."

    "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who think they are free."

    Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


  23. #263
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    The Prime Minister said: "Land lords have a legal obligation to provide safe buildings and where they cannot do that we expect alternative accommodation to be provided.
    What about the state and city government responsibility to oversee and inspect the buildings it subsidizes with taxpayers money confiscated by government?

    How is it even possible for a landlord to construct an unsafe building when there is the vast socialistic city and state bureaucratic machine setting building codes and tasked with inspecting buildings?
    "The most intriguing point for the historian is that where history and legend meet."

    "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who think they are free."

    Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


  24. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Baron View Post
    What about the state and city government responsibility to oversee and inspect the buildings it subsidizes with taxpayers money confiscated by government?

    How is it even possible for a landlord to construct an unsafe building when there is the vast socialistic city and state Bureaucratic machine setting building codes and tasked with inspecting buildings?
    If you read some of the early articles it was the party because the Tory government, in a bit to limit regulation; both lowered regulatory standards and refused to enact others (like requiring sprinklers and fire alarms in high rise buildings) because "it was not government's responsibility."

    My own husband reacted with "how could this happen in the UK Nanny State?" easy because it actually costs MONEY to make sure buildings are in proper repair and to enforce real fire safety codes (both government money and private building companies) but it "makes" money to require workers to attend "elf and safety classes" before being allowed to put up the Office Christmas Tree Lights or fine a disabled homeowner because their trash bin is open 1/4 inch above the allowed limit.

    While there are many places that governments stick their noses into that they should not; refusing to have basic safety standards on high rise buildings and simply relying on "the goodwill of the market" usually doesn't work very well; it is sort of like traffic control, it may be a pain to have red lights or stop signs (and sometimes there are too many of them) but in general basic traffic flow is considered to be something the public delegates to local government; just as most people believed that basic fire and construction safety was part of the building process for high-rise buildings, especially tax payer supported public housing.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  25. #265
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    Herr Baron touched on the core of this....a socialist system.
    Proud Infidel...............and Cracker

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    Deplorable


  26. #266
    May have already been said or reported, but I would not be surprised..... muse.... man made global warming is to blame. How's that most will ask?..... well you see, in order to make the buildings more energy efficient and use just a little bit less evil carbon based energy, they installed this just awesome R-40 super duty and super efficient insulation to the outside of the building. And the fire rating was good, but only in extream heats of above 666 degress does it spontaneously explode. But it's to save the planet, bla, bla, bla...... WAG.

  27. #267
    Kensington residents express dismay at Grenfell fire victims' nearby rehousing: 'I don't want them here'

    Many were relieved to hear families were finally receiving some good news. But others were less compassionate, saying: 'north Kensington is not this Kensington'

    Lucy Pasha-Robinson, Matt Murphy
    @lucypasha
    18 hours ago
    802 comments

    The Independent Online


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    Kensington residents express dismay at Grenfell fire victims' rehousing nearby: 'I don't want them here'
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    Residents of Kensington’s luxury properties were divided after news survivors of the Grenfell Tower fire would be permanently rehoused in a new £2bn development in the area.

    The Government announced 68 social homes would be made available at Kensington Row to families left homeless in the blaze that killed at least 79 people.

    But reactions were mixed in the upmarket area. Many residents were relieved to hear that families who have lost so much were finally receiving some good news. But others were less compassionate.

    Anna, who is in her 60s, has lived in her flat just a stone’s throw from the new development for 40 years. She said she would not be happy to see survivors rehoused in her area.

    "North Kensington is not this Kensington. They should be in a place where they are happy, but not here. I don’t want them here,” she said.

    “In the circumstances, they can't all expect to be rehoused in these parts of London. Someone has to pay that money, if they can afford to pay the rent there they should pay rent somewhere else.”

    But her friend Margaret, who also lives in the area, disagreed. She interrupted her to ask: “But where are they going to go? They can’t stay on the streets.”

    One mother-of-two, who did not want to be named, said she was disgusted by the reaction of her neighbours.

    “They are saying: 'Have you heard about how they are letting these people who don't work live in luxury apartments?' They are saying that they don't want these people here in their apartments, that they rely too much on the government. They are saying: ‘I pay £5,000 a month to live here’,” she said.

    “I just thought oh my god. Haven't these people suffered enough?”
    Grenfell Tower survivors to be housed in 375 Kensington High Street


    It comes following an announcement by communities secretary Sajid Javid on Wednesday that some residents would be offered “newly built social housing” at the site on Warwick Road, where private homes sell from £1,575,000 to £8.5m
    .

    The homes were purchased by the City of London Corporation for around £10 million in a cut-down deal brokered by the Homes and Communities Agency (HCA).

    The development will also include a 24-hour concierge and a private cinema, according to the website of developer St Edward, owned by Berkeley Group.

    But social tenants will be housed in two separate purpose built “affordable housing” blocks at the site that will be different from the luxury apartments on sale.

    A source from the Berkeley Group told The Independent that unlike the flats for sale the apartments would be modern but not luxury. They revealed the flats will be less high-spec than those for sale and that fixtures and fittings will also be more basic.

    Social housing residents will also not have access to the gym or the pool in the development, which the source said was standard for any social housing scheme.

    Nick, who lives in a nearby development, said he could not understand the negative reaction from some of the community’s residents.

    “I don’t see what the problem is, we’re all humans. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion but I think a lot of people don’t like change but you’ve got to change, that’s how we grow, by meeting new people, different cultures,” he said.

    “I feel for them, at the end of the day, they’ve got to have places to stay, you can’t have people on the street.”

    Despite the good news for some of the survivors, many questions surrounding the development were left unanswered. A Government spokesperson confirmed that only social housing tenants from Grenfell Tower would be rehoused in the block, and private renters or homeowners who were left homeless in the blaze would not be eligible for support.

    It was also not immediately clear how affordable the flats will really be. The government states affordable homes should cost no more than 80 per cent of the average local market rent, which offers few guarantees in this wealthy area.

    A source from Berkeley Group said all flats were designed to be “tenure blind” and that the flats will not be differentiable from street level.

    However, photographs of the development clearly show a more spartan-looking block to one side of the development, which will reportedly house the development’s social tenants.
    social-housing-1.jpg
    The building on the far left may be one of the blocks reserved for social housing tenants (Lucy Pasha-Robinson/Independent)

    Radical Housing Network, a campaign group fighting for housing equality, said: “We also abhor the way in which developers of luxury blocks meet 'affordable' housing quotas by designing buildings in which those on low-incomes are kept out of sight and out of mind from the rich.”

    A City of London Corporation spokesperson said: “We are ready to do everything we can to help the victims of the terrible fire at Grenfell Tower.

    “We already provide council housing across seven London boroughs and are committed to delivering 3,700 new homes on sites across the capital.

    “These plans have been agreed as matter of urgency as part of the response by councils across London to support the team working on recovery efforts.”

    It comes after the Prime Minister apologised for the “failure of the state” over the Government’s response to the tragedy.

    Theresa May admitted there had been failures “local and national” in the hours immediately following the fire.

    “Let me be absolutely clear: the support for the families on the ground in the initial hours was not good enough,” she said.

    “That was a failure of the state, local and national, to help people when they needed it most. As Prime Minister, I apologise for that failure. As Prime Minister I have taken responsibility for doing what we can to put things right.”

    She also pledged that all families would be rehoused in under three weeks.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7801896.html
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  28. #268
    Now one of the REAL reasons this story was put on the back burner (or they tried to) because not only is the horror of what happened bad enough, the implication for the near future are going to be really hard on the not-yet-really-formed government as well - where will these people go?

    Grenfell Tower fire: Thousands may be forced to flee homes as seven towers test positive for 'combustible' cladding

    'Obviously nobody will be living in buildings that are unsafe, they will be rehoused if they need to be'

    Samuel Osborne
    @SamuelOsborne93
    Thursday 22 June 2017 17:04 BST
    154 comments


    The Independent Online
    grenfell-tower.jpg

    Hundreds of tower blocks in England have similar cladding to that used in the Grenfell Tower fire disaster, Downing Street has admitted.

    So far tests have revealed that combustible cladding was used on seven tower blocks in four areas across the UK, the Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG) said.

    But English councils have estimated that 600 high-rise buildings used cladding similar to Grenfell Tower in west London, where at least 78 people died last week after the building was engulfed in flames.

    Other tower blocks have same cladding as Grenfell, Theresa May warns

    Among the buildings so far confirmed by the Government to have flammable facades are the Chalcots Estate in north London, which is removing the cladding, and the Mount Wise Tower in Plymouth.

    Both buildings were said to be enforcing more stringent fire-prevention measures as a response, including 24/7 observations of the building by safety teams.

    Camden Council said the Chalcots Estate was facing renovation after tests found "the panels that were fitted were not to the standard that we had commissioned".

    Councils were told to provide the Government with details of the cladding used on high-rises by Monday and samples were found to be combustible after tests on a "small number" of specimens.


    Flammable panelling on the outside of Grenfell Tower is suspected to have aided the rapid spread of last week's blaze, trapping dozens inside.

    Speaking in the Commons earlier, the Prime Minister, Theresa May, said local authorities and fire services concerned are taking "all possible steps" to ensure the buildings are safe and residents have been informed.

    She said the Government had arranged to test cladding on all relevant tower blocks as a precaution.

    Ms May went on to urge any landlords who own tower blocks to send samples for testing as soon as possible.

    The Prime Minister said: "Land lords have a legal obligation to provide safe buildings and where they cannot do that we expect alternative accommodation to be provided.

    "We cannot and will not ask people to live in unsafe homes."

    Harriet Harman, a Labour MP, described the revelation as "chilling".
    Grenfell Tower survivors to be housed in 375 Kensington High Street


    The Department for Communities and Local Government is coordinating the process and facilities allow for 100 samples a day to be tested.
    Read more


    A Number 10 spokeswoman said: "So far, three samples have been found to be combustible."

    She added: "In terms of how many buildings and how many homes have this type of cladding, the estimate provided to us by councils is that there are approximately 600 high-rise buildings with similar cladding.

    "We are in touch with all the local authorities to encourage them to urgently send us the samples and then we will carry out the checks that we need to see where we are with that."

    In blocks where the cladding is found to be combustible "we will do a further test to make sure the building is safe" and residents could be rehomed.

    "Obviously nobody will be living in buildings that are unsafe, they will be rehoused if they need to be and landlords will be asked to provide alternative accommodation where that's possible," the spokeswoman said.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7802406.html
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  29. #269
    These things are just screaming "TORCH ME" to the muzzies.

  30. #270
    Grenfell fire: Number of tower blocks discovered with similar cladding rises to seven – and is expected to rise

    Samples from 600 high-rise flats are being tested urgently

    Rob Merrick Deputy Political Editor
    @Rob_Merrick
    Thursday 22 June 2017 16:54 BST
    1 comment


    breaking.jpg

    The number of tower blocks found to have combustible cladding similar to Grenfell Tower has risen to seven – and is set to rise further.

    Fire and rescue services are carrying out urgent checks to determine if the seven blocks are definitely unsafe and whether hundreds of residents need to be moved out.

    Samples from 600 high-rise flats are being tested to determine just how many thousands of people are living in potential death traps.

    The cladding is believed to have been responsible for the rapid spread of the fire at Grenfell Tower, in which at least 79 people are thought to have died.

    Seven tower blocks in four different local authorities failed emergency tests, Downing Street said, but they have not yet been identified.

    "Failing this test does not necessarily mean that your building may be declared unsafe," Theresa May's deputy spokeswoman said.

    "It will be subject to further testing that is undertaken by the fire services to do that and if that is the case then we will be obviously working with local authorities and the landlords to make sure that nobody stays in a building that's proved to be unsafe."



    More follows…
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7803326.html
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  31. #271
    The so- called "cladding" was probably mandated to be installed on the buildings to meet green energy standards.

    WAG...global warming mandate. But they will somehow blame the contractor, etc....

  32. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by West View Post
    The so- called "cladding" was probably mandated to be installed on the buildings to meet green energy standards.

    WAG...global warming mandate. But they will somehow blame the contractor, etc....
    No, it wasn't, please READ the actual articles; it was put there to make them look posher (aka so they would look like the expensive buildings around them and not like public housing built in 1974 before the area was a gentrified into a wealthy area).

    Your first comment I understood as funny, but I'm sorry this situation is far too grim for that sort of humor to be funny very long.

    This has nothing to do with a "Green Agenda" it has nothing to do with Socialism (in fact there were no standards for fire safety equipment like sprinklers because the Conservative government felt they were "not the government's responsibility") unless your just talking about public housing in general.

    That OK is socialist but it has also been in place in London since the 1950's when the slums were torn down (the ones left after the bombing) because they were declared unsafe and unfit for human habitation; I point out that one Tory MP before the fire suggested solving London's housing crises by bringing them back (yep so London can have warehouse fires like the one in Oakland).

    The dirty secret is that London especially is now so expensive to live in that people with "working class" jobs (aka service industries from barista to nurse) can't afford to live there and often end up in these sorts of subsidized apartments.

    I have a friend that works 40 hours a week plus as a security guard and he lives in a "council house" (a house version of public housing on the outskirts of the city); his paycheck would never cover the "private" market and he would simply end up taking his skills to another employer in a smaller city if he didn't have a place; for which he does pay rent, it just isn't as high as it would be if it were on the "open" market.

    Yes, there are also people on welfare and refugees that live in these places especially the really old ones (like this one was) because people get on lists to move on to better ones when they can and/or they move out of the area.

    At the moment London has something like FOUR THOUSAND of these towers; many of which are public housing and some of which are not, many of which have this "make them look prettier and less 'common' deadly cladding.

    This is ALL ABOUT HUMAN GREED, on so many levels and with enough blame to go around.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  33. #273
    Ok, so it was mandated for looks. Agree all aspects of socialism. And the contractor will still probably get the blame. Still bet that cladding has a insulation effect too.

    Here in the states there is many contractors who sell and install plastic insulated siding, as it saves the planet and your energy. I wouldn't put that crud on my house and tare it off if it had it.

  34. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by West View Post
    Ok, so it was mandated for looks. Agree all aspects of socialism. And the contractor will still probably get the blame. Still bet that cladding has a insulation effect too.

    Here in the states there is many contractors who sell and install plastic insulated siding, as it saves the planet and your energy. I wouldn't put that crud on my house and tare it off if it had it.
    Yeah pretty much, there was a better version that would have cost about 7,000 more US dollars per tower but it wasn't used; it is supposed to be less flammable but that is only based on what I'm reading in the press and I don't have the background to know if that is true or not (hence the human greed factor, the councils/contractors were offered a choice).
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  35. #275
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    posted for fair use and discussion
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40380584


    Grenfell Tower: Hotpoint fridge freezer started fire

    9 minutes ago
    From the section UK

    The Grenfell Tower fire in London started with a faulty fridge freezer, and outside cladding failed safety tests, police say.

    This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version.
    Nana to two "little bits", one not-so-little "little bit" and one big "little bit" now several inches taller than me

  36. #276
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    I thought there were only 120-124 apartments in the building


    updated article from above post

    posted for fair use and discussion
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40380584

    Grenfell Tower: Fire started in Hotpoint fridge freezer, say police


    5 minutes ago
    From the section UK

    Image copyright PA

    The Grenfell Tower fire in London started in a fridge freezer, and outside cladding failed safety tests, police say.

    Insulation on the building also failed tests and the Metropolitan Police will consider manslaughter charges.

    Seventy-nine people are feared dead after the blaze destroyed 151 homes in the Kensington tower block.

    Police said the fire had not been started deliberately.

    Det Sup Fiona McCormack said she wanted to hear about anyone who was in the tower, whether or not they were meant to be in the building.

    She said: "I do not want there to be any victims of this tragedy that we do not know about.

    "Our priority is to understand who was in Grenfell Tower. We are not interested in people's reasons for being in Grenfell Tower."

    The fridge freezer the fire started in was a Hotpoint FF175BP model. Police say the manufacturers have been told, as well as the Department of Business Energy and Industrial Policy.

    Further tests were being done on the appliance, they said, and the fridge freezer had never been subject to a product recall.
    Last edited by Lilbitsnana; 06-23-2017 at 08:20 AM.
    Nana to two "little bits", one not-so-little "little bit" and one big "little bit" now several inches taller than me

  37. #277
    Join Date
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    Steve Herman‏Verified account @W7VOA 52s52 seconds ago

    -@WhirlpoolCorp says consumers with Hotpoint fridge/freezer models FF175BP or FF175BG should call hotline. #GrenfellTowerFire


    ETA:

    Steve Herman‏Verified account @W7VOA 1m1 minute ago

    -@WhirlpoolCorp says working with #UK authorities to obtain access to appliance that sparked #GrenfellTowerFire.


    Steve Herman‏Verified account @W7VOA 37s37 seconds ago

    "Words cannot express our sorrow at this terrible tragedy,” adds @WhirlpoolCorp statement on #GrenfellTowerFire.
    Nana to two "little bits", one not-so-little "little bit" and one big "little bit" now several inches taller than me

  38. #278
    Manslaughter charges considered in Grenfell fire inquiry
    Updated / Friday, 23 Jun 2017 12:18

    The number of people to have died, including those classed as missing presumed dead, remains at 79

    Manslaughter charges are being considered by detectives investigating the Grenfell Tower fire as it emerged the structure had failed fire safety tests.


    Metropolitan Police Detective Superintendent Fiona McCormack said a faulty fridge started the inferno which has killed at least 79 people.

    Cladding and insulation encasing the building did not pass any fire-safety tests, she added, increasing concern the 24-storey block's facade accelerated the blaze's spread.

    As police continued to unpick the roots of the disaster, Ms McCormack said a string of criminal offences were now being considered.

    Documents and materials had been seized from a "number of organisations", she added.

    She said: "We are looking at every criminal offence from manslaughter onwards, we are looking at every health and safety and fire safety offences and we are reviewing every company at the moment involved in the building and refurbishment of Grenfell Tower."


    A Hotpoint FF175BP model was found to have been the fridge at the centre of the tragedy and followed witness reports from 14 June that one resident claimed his appliance was responsible.

    Tests on the building's material as part of the police investigation were "small scale", the officer said, but added: "All I can say at the moment is they (tiles and insulation) don't pass any safety tests.

    What we are being told at the moment by the Building Research Establishment is that the cladding and insulation failed all safety tests

    The government said at least 11 buildings across eight local authority areas in England were found to have flammable cladding.


    Towers in Camden, Manchester and Plymouth are among the at-risk buildings, Communities and Local Government Secretary Sajid Javid said in a letter to MPs.

    Hundreds of further buildings are being tested by the Government to see if they pose a fire threat.

    While the death toll remains at 79, Ms McCormack addressed concerns that many more had died and were unaccounted for in official figures.


    She repeated calls for members of the public with information about people who may have been in the tower at the time of the fire to come forward.

    An amnesty for people who may have been living in the tower illegally has been suggested, supported by Mayor of London Sadiq Khan.

    Ms McCormack said: "Every complete body has been removed from the building."

    She added: "I remain really concerned though that we do not have a complete picture.

    "There may well be people who no one has contacted us about - who they know were in the building or have close links to Grenfell Tower.

    "We are not interested in people's reasons for not telling us sooner and as the mayor has already said people should be not be nervous about contacting us.

    "The Home Office has assured us that they are not interested in people's immigration status and we are not interested in looking at that.


    What we are interested in is making sure that we know who is missing and we take every possible step to establish if they are safe and well

    Describing how the investigation was proceeding, she added: "We have been in Grenfell Tower, from top to bottom, last week.

    "Next week we will be installing a lift to the outside of the building to assist. But our forensic search may not be complete until the end of the year."

    Business Minister Greg Clark said an immediate examination is under way into the Hotpoint fridge freezer.

    This product, which was manufactured between 2006 and 2009, has not been subject to product recalls and this testing will establish whether any further action is required," he said in a statement.

    "I have made clear to the company that I will expect them to replace any item without delay if it is established that there is a risk in using them."

    Hotpoint 'assisting authorities'

    A Hotpoint spokesman said: "Words cannot express our sorrow at this terrible tragedy. We offer our most profound condolences to the victims, those who have lost loved-ones, homes, and possessions, and to their friends and families. Our thoughts and prayers are with all those involved, including the emergency services who risked their lives to extinguish the blaze and rescue those in the building.

    "We have just been informed that the fire may have originated in a Hotpoint fridge freezer (model number FF175BP).

    "We are working with the authorities to obtain access to the appliance so that we can assist with the ongoing investigations. Under these circumstances, we are unable to speculate on further details at this time. We are addressing this as a matter of utmost urgency and assisting the authorities in any way we can. We will provide additional updates as our investigations progress.

    "Consumers who believe they may have a Hotpoint fridge freezer model number FF175BP or FF175BG should call our freephone hotline on 0800 316 3826 or visit hotpointservice.co.uk/fridgefreezer so that we can register their details and contact them with further information."
    https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0623/885004-london-fire/
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  39. #279
    What they are calling "cladding" is really highly insulated wall panels. I still say that part of the decision to use those panels was made in a major part, because of their insulation values to save energy and stay energy compliant as well as to look better.

    But they will blame the refrigerator, or any dumb contractors.

    Also, I would not be surprised if the freezer or what ever that started the fire, is one of the newer cfc free refrigerant type that run at higher pressures and had a safty switch fail, from dirt, dust bunnies that ignited from a faild circut board frying up a printed solid state capacitor.

    But hay, it's all to save the planet.

  40. #280
    I don't know how they make the fridges and freezers over here but they are different; they don't work as well (from my point of view) my repair person (on my fourth replacement fridge) said supposedly it is to "save energy" but really they are all "Chinese Junk" he said "there are no good brands anymore" (UK and Ireland).

    I know that part of how it works is that water constantly drips down the back of the fridge, it makes a mess and is designed for people who really don't keep much in it (I guess we are supposed to buy fresh every day or something?).

    Someone with more understanding than me can probably explain this one, it is "above my social science level pay grade" but I gather fires caused by these monsters are not that uncommon on this side of the water; the washing machines are terrible too (energy efficient means you wash for 3 to 4 hours instead of 1 1/2) but at least they don't tend to catch on fire (just not clean very well) dryers on the other hand do sometimes.
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

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