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GOV/MIL News on the Unemployment extension
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  1. #1
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    21 News on the Unemployment extension

    This just came in. Before that I was looking to see if there was any current news, and ended up at Delaware Online, and looking at the comments under the latest article. People are getting suicidal now, it's been so long.

    So I go back to Breakingnews.com and this is there:


    25m
    Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., asks Republicans to join Democrats in passing legislation to extend unemployment insurance
    - @thehill

    ---------

    February 03, 2014, 02:23 pm
    Reid asks GOP to join Dems on unemployment insurance

    Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) begged Republicans to join Democrats in passing legislation to extend unemployment insurance.

    “Congress can’t solve every problem, but we can solve this problem,” Reid said on the Senate floor Monday. “A bipartisan group of Senators has been working behind the scenes to reach an agreement to restore emergency unemployment benefits to 1.6 million Americans.”

    The Senate is expected to take another stab at passing a three-month unemployment insurance extension as early as this week.

    Democrats tried to pass an unpaid-for three-month extension, which failed because Republicans said they wanted the $6.5 billion cost offset. Democrats then tried to pass an 11-month extension that was fully paid for by extending sequestration for an additional year, which would generate roughly $25 billion. Republicans balked at that plan as well and demanded an open amendment process.

    “Since Republicans filibustered a bill to restore benefits without adding a penny to the deficit, the toll on local and national economies has been devastating,” Reid said. “When unemployment benefits dry up, customers disappear from local stores and business suffers.”

    Nearly 1.3 million people lost their long-term unemployment benefits at the end of December. Unemployment insurance was designed to help those looking for work in states that can’t afford to pay unemployment benefits for more than six months. Reid said more than 200,000 more people have lost their unemployment benefits since Republicans blocked the previous attempt to extend the benefits.

    Sen. Jack Reed (D-R.I.) has been negotiating with GOP Sens. Dean Heller (Nev.) and Rob Portman (Ohio) to find a deal. Reed’s latest proposal is for a three-month extension that is paid for through “pension smoothing” — a pay-for used in the 2012 highway bill.

    Pension smoothing reduces pension expenditures for companies in the short term creating more taxable income, but it’s unclear how long it would take for this accounting procedure to generate the $6.5 billion. Some Republicans have also described the practice as a budget “gimmick” that risks greater liability in the long run.

    Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-actio...#ixzz2sI9nkjXZ
    Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook
    So when's the Revolution? God or Money? Choose.

  2. #2
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    How kind and generous of him. I would like to hear more of failed Heimlich maneuvers on those eating steak in DC. How about some jobs you idiots?
    The Operative: “The path to peace is paved with corpses. It’s always been so.”

    Malcolm Reynolds: “So me and mine got to lie down and die so you can live in your better world?”

  3. #3
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    Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) begged Republicans to join Democrats in passing legislation to extend unemployment insurance.

    Get up off your knees, Harry, and read the papers. At 6.7%, unemployment isn't an issue. If there is an economic recovery, as you and the Prez keep saying, then there is no unemployment problem that requires Congressional action.

    Unless you've been lying about the matter all this time, Harry...


    The Obama Administration constitutes a pseudocompetocracy, i.e., rule by those whose primary skill is in feigning competence.

  4. #4
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    Democrats tried to pass an unpaid-for three-month extension, which failed because Republicans said they wanted the $6.5 billion cost offset. Democrats then tried to pass an 11-month extension that was fully paid for by extending sequestration for an additional year, which would generate roughly $25 billion. Republicans balked at that plan as well and demanded an open amendment process.

    I (gasp) find myself in agreement with the dems on this. We've all seen the incredible pork added by both sides to bills. I don't think there should be any amendments allowed to any bills, ever again. (That would have cut the throat of Obamacare for example, before it ever made it through.) Since the RINO repubs are the same as the dems, I have no sympathy for them at this point. They're all scum. They should have passed the paid-for bill.

  5. #5
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    I say screw 'em and shut it down...even 99 weeks, you telling me one cannot find a job after a year and a half? I have a former co-worker who got laid off, and is not even going to start looking for work until his unemployment runs out...and I'm sure a lot of others feel the same. Why look for work when one can stay home and get a check? And if they can afford to live on the unemployment check, then they could work for a lesser wage, if they so chose. I'm busting my rump, and not getting anywhere near rich, while they stay at home, get a check, food stamps, and who knows what else. Cut the cord-before unemployment becomes a job in itself.
    A socialist will trample over one hundred poor people just for the chance to throw a rock at a rich man.

  6. #6
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    In my opinion . . .

    This country needs riots, if for no other reason than People need to be in the streets demanding jobs.

    But so long as the People are placated with government handouts, we're not gonna have 'em.

  7. #7
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    Hasn't been 99 weeks for a couple years now. Max is roughly 70 weeks, with about 47 being the average.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hacker View Post
    In my opinion . . .

    This country needs riots, if for no other reason than People need to be in the streets demanding jobs.

    But so long as the People are placated with government handouts, we're not gonna have 'em.
    Well I do agree with you about people being placated with government handouts.
    We hand out food stamps so there won't be long lines at food kitchens.
    We hand out welfare to keep the streets quiet and free of riots.
    Government placation at it's best. It helps some but enables many to sit on their butts.

    I do find that anyone demanding someone else give them a job, just plain funny.
    It's like stamping your feet and holding your breath until you turn blue because God wont stop the rain.
    In other words pointless and kind of stupid.
    If you are disabled and can't work, I can understand that.
    If you just don't want to relocate to somewhere else, well that's on you.
    If you just don't want to do something else for maybe less money, well that's on you too.
    If someone is willing to do what's needed to get a job and is still unable to find a job in a year or so, that person needs to start looking in a mirror and see what's wrong with themselves compared to those who are working and have found a job.
    "I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." -DH Lawrence
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  9. #9
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    Maybe the answer is to rename the program. Instead of calling it an extended unemployment benefit, let's call it what it is - welfare.
    Now, if there is a stigma attached with being on the dole, then so be it.....

  10. #10
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    I know people who have made it a career to live on unemployment because they've discovered they don't like to work anymore after sitting on thier duffs for so long. Why do we taxpayers have to keep supporting them? Why not let them apply for welfare? I know there's no jobs but too many are taking advantage of this!

  11. #11
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    Terry. Still not figuring it out. After all this time.

    I'm not going to argue with you, so don't go there.
    So when's the Revolution? God or Money? Choose.

  12. #12
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    Oh sure, send the noobie out to deal with it. Missed this one earlier:



    4h
    Sen. Cory Booker, D-N.J., giving his maiden Senate floor speech now, calling for an extension of unemployment insurance - @cimarcos
    So when's the Revolution? God or Money? Choose.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Oilpatch Hand View Post
    Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) begged Republicans to join Democrats in passing legislation to extend unemployment insurance.

    Get up off your knees, Harry, and read the papers. At 6.7%, unemployment isn't an issue. If there is an economic recovery, as you and the Prez keep saying, then there is no unemployment problem that requires Congressional action.

    Unless you've been lying about the matter all this time, Harry...
    Seems unemployment began to take a sharp drop about the time many of these people started running out of benefits. That 6.7% is probably due to the fact so many people have "dropped off" unemployment. There's no way to keep track of who has/hasn't found jobs at this point, or so it would seem. Then when taken into consideration the #'s that had already just quit looking/applying of course the percentage of unemployed is going to drop.

    There is no recovery going on.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oilpatch Hand View Post
    Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) begged Republicans to join Democrats in passing legislation to extend unemployment insurance.

    Get up off your knees, Harry, and read the papers. At 6.7%, unemployment isn't an issue. If there is an economic recovery, as you and the Prez keep saying, then there is no unemployment problem that requires Congressional action.

    Unless you've been lying about the matter all this time, Harry...
    Yep the government can't have it both ways.
    "I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." -DH Lawrence
    "We do not see things as they are, we see things as we are." - The Talmud

  15. #15
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    To my shame, I have a sibling who is on "unemployment" deliberately because she "makes" as much sitting on her duff as she would working for a living. 99 weeks of benefits is an insult and incentive to lethargy.

  16. #16
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    Just because some people exploit it doesn't mean that nobody should get it and doesn't mean that everybody is exploiting it just because they've been out of work for a long time. Honestly some of the people quacking about it in this thread should have to see what its like to have to try and get a job in this economy...try it when you're over 50. You think that being older won't hurt your prospects? BS! I'm pretty effing sick of hearing people with jobs talking smack about those who got laid off and have been struggling for months. My wife's been looking for 6 months now and keeps getting passed over because A. She's over 50 and B. She's white. She's well qualified but there is a lot of prejudice and reverse discrimination in this area. Being white is a liability. When you work your whole life and then this shit happens, at that age, it ain't easy. There are several here who can attest to that.

    Go ahead, keep quacking...karma's a bitch...
    "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dex View Post
    Just because some people exploit it doesn't mean that nobody should get it and doesn't mean that everybody is exploiting it just because they've been out of work for a long time. Honestly some of the people quacking about it in this thread should have to see what its like to have to try and get a job in this economy...try it when you're over 50. You think that being older won't hurt your prospects? BS! I'm pretty effing sick of hearing people with jobs talking smack about those who got laid off and have been struggling for months. My wife's been looking for 6 months now and keeps getting passed over because A. She's over 50 and B. She's white. She's well qualified but there is a lot of prejudice and reverse discrimination in this area. Being white is a liability. When you work your whole life and then this shit happens, at that age, it ain't easy. There are several here who can attest to that.

    Go ahead, keep quacking...karma's a bitch...



    Particularly true in the tech field.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Olson View Post
    Hasn't been 99 weeks for a couple years now. Max is roughly 70 weeks, with about 47 being the average.
    Thank you. So many just spout the 99 week thing without doing any research.

  19. #19
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    And for those who mistakenly think that "extension of the 99 week program" means that slackers will get more than 99 weeks: It merely means extending the program, not the length of benefits. The program (if I recall correctly) expires at the end of each year and must be extended if it is to be continued the next year.

    As Dennis mentioned, most of us didn't see anywhere near 99 weeks. Because as unemployment rates in our state decrease to certain levels, each tier of benefits is cancelled. You know, in this great economic recovery.

    And I agree about trying to find a job in this economy. There are a million unskilled applicants for the menial jobs, and a million young college degreed applicants for the skilled jobs. Nobody wants a 40-something.

  20. #20
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    Last time I was unemployed it took me five months to find a lower-paying job, and almost all of my savings. Unemployment paid $258 a week. My sister has been unemployed since MAY and has REFUSED jobs she can get in her field (at $12-$15/hr, not great but hey she made her choice) because she takes home more sitting on her butt. So, why work? If she didn't have 47-70 weeks of unemployment, she'd be out there working. I simply see extended unemployment benefits as a disincentive to go get a job, any kind of job. That assumes, of course, that your area has any jobs of any kind available.

  21. #21
    There really aren't that many decent paying jobs anymore and this extend forever policy is just delaying the collapse and getting the government in more debt.

    That is the economy is FUBAR and pretending it is wonderful isn't doing anyone any good.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Last Resort View Post
    Last time I was unemployed it took me five months to find a lower-paying job, and almost all of my savings. Unemployment paid $258 a week. My sister has been unemployed since MAY and has REFUSED jobs she can get in her field (at $12-$15/hr, not great but hey she made her choice) because she takes home more sitting on her butt.
    Good for you! When hubby was laid off he maxed out unemployment and we also went 6 months with no income at all. He finally landed a hard labor job making less than what your sister was offered.

    If you think he didn't work his butt off during that time looking for a job, you are sadly mistaken.

    He is also over 40.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbkaren View Post
    And I agree about trying to find a job in this economy. There are a million unskilled applicants for the menial jobs, and a million young college degreed applicants for the skilled jobs. Nobody wants a 40-something.
    Nobody wants a 50 or 60-something either.

  24. #24
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    Of course they did. When they get hunted down in the middle of the night sometime, nobody better ask why.......

    7m
    US Senate Republicans block Democrats' new bid to restore unemployment benefits for 1.7 million Americans - @Reuters
    end of alert
    So when's the Revolution? God or Money? Choose.

  25. #25
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    Argghhaa! I'm so sick of politicians BS! Meanwhile a good percentage of those unemployed that actually deserve the benefit are going hungry, sitting in the cold and unable to take proper care of their children in the middle of the winter. Thanks congress, you bunch of crooked crap weasels! All we are asking for is a lousy 16 week extension for those who ran short, now we are into 5 weeks of nothing for those people. Congress is making a circus out of it.
    "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
    --John F. Kennedy

  26. #26
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    They must be feeling my ugly black cloud dumping on all their fat porky heads at the moment.


    10m
    Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., says the Senate is 1 Republican vote away from restoring unemployment insurance
    - @ReutersZengerle
    So when's the Revolution? God or Money? Choose.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Dex View Post
    Just because some people exploit it doesn't mean that nobody should get it and doesn't mean that everybody is exploiting it just because they've been out of work for a long time. Honestly some of the people quacking about it in this thread should have to see what its like to have to try and get a job in this economy...try it when you're over 50. You think that being older won't hurt your prospects? BS! I'm pretty effing sick of hearing people with jobs talking smack about those who got laid off and have been struggling for months. My wife's been looking for 6 months now and keeps getting passed over because A. She's over 50 and B. She's white. She's well qualified but there is a lot of prejudice and reverse discrimination in this area. Being white is a liability. When you work your whole life and then this shit happens, at that age, it ain't easy. There are several here who can attest to that.

    Go ahead, keep quacking...karma's a bitch...
    After getting laid of for budget reasons, and while wrangling with them over my disability status, I went the UI route.
    In 2003 when they nuked the entire department I landed another job in about 6 weeks. I got responses to every snail mail letter I sent out.
    In 2008 I got 1 response and when I went for the interview I found out the company had just been purchased by an European consortium and they were striping the plant the day of my interview. The HR lady was kind enough to do the interview so I could keep the UI people off my back. She told me that in spite of having a excellent work record, skills, etc, that since I was over 50 I should forget about landing any decent, or even half decent job. That while no HR person would ever admit in writing, no one hires 50+ workers unless you have some extraordinary "something."

    Given the millions of jobs we have exported and are continuing to export, I don't see any way to ever achieve 'full employment" in this country unless something really bad happens.
    "Really Bad" as in a major war, or a complete collapse of the international trading system. And please believe me, that would be very very bad. The societal chaos would be a nightmare until we got things under control by rebuilding our domestic manufacturing ability.

    Talk about riots.....

    Terry

  28. #28
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    Senate Fails to Advance Three-Month Unemployment Extension

    The Senate fell short of approving a three-month extension of unemployment benefits that expired at the beginning of this year.

    Senators fell one vote short of clearing a procedural hurdle on a three-month extension paid for by "pension smoothing," which would bring in more revenue by allowing companies to adjust their pension contributions.

    The final vote was 58-40, with 60 votes needed to clear a filibuster. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., switched his vote to "no" to preserve the option of bringing up the legislation again at a later date.

    The Senate also fell short of moving forward on a simple, three-month extension of benefits for which the cost wasn't offset. That vote failed, 55-43, by also falling short of the 60-vote treshold.

    Democrats have voiced their frustration at Republicans for repeatedly blocking the jobless aid, which they have characterized as necessary assistance to families encountering difficult employment situations. Republicans have demanded the cost of the benefits be offset, and have complained that they have been blocked from offering amendments to the unemployment bill.

    First published February 6th 2014, 2:45 pm

    http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/cong...r-china-n23911
    So when's the Revolution? God or Money? Choose.

  29. #29
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    They are too busy worrying bout immigration reform to give two shits about the unemployed or creating jobs.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizzo gal View Post
    They are too busy worrying bout immigration reform to give two shits about the unemployed or creating jobs.
    Well, after all, they're busy doing jobs Americans won't do. Reminds me that this morning I saw one of those home shows. Young 23-yr-old staff sgt in the Air Force down in Texas, I think it was. She was buying a house for her and her mama that cost over $200,000. Big family, show said mom raised her 4 or 5 kids alone, didn't say what happened to a dad. She was a nice old lady, and spoke English but with a Spanish accent. Plays cards with all her other friends and goes to Church. The new America. My son can't find a job, and the immigrants get them and $200,000 houses. Walk-in closets too. LOL.

    See, I made the mistake of not being born Hispanic or Black, I guess.


    So when's the Revolution? God or Money? Choose.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzkitty View Post
    Well, after all, they're busy doing jobs Americans won't do. Reminds me that this morning I saw one of those home shows. Young 23-yr-old staff sgt in the Air Force down in Texas, I think it was. She was buying a house for her and her mama that cost over $200,000. Big family, show said mom raised her 4 or 5 kids alone, didn't say what happened to a dad. She was a nice old lady, and spoke English but with a Spanish accent. Plays cards with all her other friends and goes to Church. The new America. My son can't find a job, and the immigrants get them and $200,000 houses. Walk-in closets too. LOL.

    See, I made the mistake of not being born Hispanic or Black, I guess.



    You can still change MzKitty. I know someone who signed as black in school and they got a heck of a lot of financial aide help while everyone else was getting the run around.
    The Operative: “The path to peace is paved with corpses. It’s always been so.”

    Malcolm Reynolds: “So me and mine got to lie down and die so you can live in your better world?”

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireDance View Post
    You can still change MzKitty. I know someone who signed as black in school and they got a heck of a lot of financial aide help while everyone else was getting the run around.
    I could never do that. I remember when my son was in like second grade or around there, it seemed the school had special programs for black kids. I said well why can't my son be in those programs too? Woman says to me, you can list him as black and get him in the program, but then he'd be considered black for the rest of his life. I said NO, of course. It's just the hypocrisy of it all that gets me.
    So when's the Revolution? God or Money? Choose.

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Olson View Post



    Particularly true in the tech field.
    Dex and Dennis - I concur 100%. When you've been unemployed and tried everything and then taken a low pay, no benefits, no future job just to have an income of some kind - it takes a real toll. Too many have not had to suffer the feelings and the reality that go along with that. Now that I am finally employed full-time again, I thank God every day. It was a lot of pain, heartache, prayer and waiting to get here.

    I'm careful of bashing people on unemployment. I've seen too many whose lives got turned upside down after years of faithfully executing their duties only to be "laid off". We have another manufacturing company close to me that just laid off close to 200 on Monday.

    Even when I was a teacher, I taught so many guys that worked in manufacturing for 20-30 years that were trying to start over again. I wonder how many truly comprehend what that does to someone?

  34. #34
    Terry -
    I would love to say you are wrong, but my daughter was a recruiter for several years. While they cannot legally say it, my daughter said that what you have described is EXACTLY what's happening out there.

    If any applicant was over 50, their resume was round circled. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by wn4isx View Post
    After getting laid of for budget reasons, and while wrangling with them over my disability status, I went the UI route.
    In 2003 when they nuked the entire department I landed another job in about 6 weeks. I got responses to every snail mail letter I sent out.
    In 2008 I got 1 response and when I went for the interview I found out the company had just been purchased by an European consortium and they were striping the plant the day of my interview. The HR lady was kind enough to do the interview so I could keep the UI people off my back. She told me that in spite of having a excellent work record, skills, etc, that since I was over 50 I should forget about landing any decent, or even half decent job. That while no HR person would ever admit in writing, no one hires 50+ workers unless you have some extraordinary "something."

    Given the millions of jobs we have exported and are continuing to export, I don't see any way to ever achieve 'full employment" in this country unless something really bad happens.
    "Really Bad" as in a major war, or a complete collapse of the international trading system. And please believe me, that would be very very bad. The societal chaos would be a nightmare until we got things under control by rebuilding our domestic manufacturing ability.

    Talk about riots.....

    Terry

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizzo gal View Post
    They are too busy worrying bout immigration reform to give two shits about the unemployed or creating jobs.
    The only way the gov can actually create jobs is to reduce taxes and over-regulation crapola. Which of course they refuse to do.
    Asato Ma Sad Gamaya
    Tamaso Ma Jyotir Gamaya

    Leave illusion, come to the Truth
    Leave the darkness, come to the Light

  36. #36
    The politicos in DEECEE don't give a rat's eyelash about constituents till fake elections.....and then they mouth lying platitudes all day long....and nothing changes. UNTIL ALL OF DEECEE IS CHUCKED OUT........it will stay the same year in and year out.........
    Sapphire

    myopically challenged

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzkitty View Post
    Well, after all, they're busy doing jobs Americans won't do. Reminds me that this morning I saw one of those home shows. Young 23-yr-old staff sgt in the Air Force down in Texas, I think it was. She was buying a house for her and her mama that cost over $200,000. Big family, show said mom raised her 4 or 5 kids alone, didn't say what happened to a dad. She was a nice old lady, and spoke English but with a Spanish accent. Plays cards with all her other friends and goes to Church. The new America. My son can't find a job, and the immigrants get them and $200,000 houses. Walk-in closets too. LOL.

    See, I made the mistake of not being born Hispanic or Black, I guess.


    Just being Hispanic doesn't mean she isn't also a citizen. If she made E-6 by the age of 23, she's either doing a good job or she has connections. One of my friends was naturalized last year, and still speaks with an accent after living here fifteen years. Yes, he did come legally, from Argentina.

    And, I don't really understand how an E-6 could afford a 200K home.
    “And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”
    ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzkitty View Post
    Well, after all, they're busy doing jobs Americans won't do. Reminds me that this morning I saw one of those home shows. Young 23-yr-old staff sgt in the Air Force down in Texas, I think it was. She was buying a house for her and her mama that cost over $200,000. Big family, show said mom raised her 4 or 5 kids alone, didn't say what happened to a dad. She was a nice old lady, and spoke English but with a Spanish accent. Plays cards with all her other friends and goes to Church. The new America. My son can't find a job, and the immigrants get them and $200,000 houses. Walk-in closets too. LOL.

    See, I made the mistake of not being born Hispanic or Black, I guess.
    Hate to break it to you but that young woman busted her butt to get where she is, and her pay is not that high. She's serving her country and working hard to protect you. To resent her and what she has just because she's Hispanic should be beneath you.
    Also, a 200K home now days is nothing special, and it probably came with a 30 year mortgage that she is taking on .
    Is your son young enough to go in the military? I hear they're hiring.

    Also the government doesn't ever create jobs. All they ever do is control how much they hinder, impede and generally hurt the businesses and capitalists who are the ones who do.
    "I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." -DH Lawrence
    "We do not see things as they are, we see things as we are." - The Talmud

  39. #39
    maybe the time of the white person and particularly the white man in the usa is over

  40. #40
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Blair Atholl
    Posts
    5,252
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Olson View Post



    Particularly true in the tech field.
    Yep. This is one reason I was willing to accept the job I took in India. It meant I stayed on the career track, so I can move up into management. Had I not taken this job, I'd have probably been out of work for months and months, and been lucky to get *anything*, even a sysadmin job, at half my market salary. It would have destroyed my career, and I'd have had a real problem hanging on to any job in the field as I got older.

    By fortunate coincidence, I can now legally say I'm "South Asian", too. I even have the government document to prove it. So I can avoid the "white" label and the concomitant discrimination.
    Strike me down, and I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine


    Oderint dum metuant

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