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REL GENRL WHITE SMOKE NEW POPE!
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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by fairbanksb View Post

    Does anyone have a translator program. His Coat of Arms motto is Miserando Atque Eligendo. Can someone translate?
    There may be some portion of that motto missing. The translation I get of "Miserando Atque Eligendo" is "And by choosing a piteous".

    A piteous...what, one is left to wonder.


    The Obama Administration constitutes a pseudocompetocracy, i.e., rule by those whose primary skill is in feigning competence.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Owl View Post
    Amen to that.

    Also to add that God said NOT to call any earthly male by the name of Father as God is the only Father....(or something like that)
    See above. Take it elsewhere if you wish to discuss this.
    "Dark and difficult times lie ahead. Soon we will all face the choice between what is right, and what is easy."
    Dumbledore to Harry Potter, Goblet of Fire.

    Luke 21:36

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Eagle Woman View Post
    Now have read much about the Jesuits and have heard much that is Not Good! Now just hearing that he is a Jesuit does make me really wonder. How much have the Jesuits in history been behind the persecution of the real believers thru the centuries. Now had to look that up of what the head of the Jesuits is called ..... and it is 'the Black Pope', which I just find interesting!
    Yup, a lot more to the Jesuits than most are aware, he is also a Roman as his parents are Italian, not sure where the Peter fits in at the moment but definitely an interesting choice, 3/13/13 adding to it all, this date was not a coincidence.
    "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened." - Matt: 7:7,8

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    See above. Take it elsewhere if you wish to discuss this.

    Sorry, we both posted at the same time..
    In his heart a man plans his course, but the Lord determines his steps.
    Proverbs 16:9

    We are in so much trouble.



  5. #85
    Go do some research on the Father of the Jesuit order, Ignatius De Loyola.

    He is ALSO tied to the alumbrados (Illuminati), of which, Weishaupt was a member in Bavaria.

    The Society of Jesus (Latin: Societas Iesu, S.J., SJ or SI) is a Christian male religious order of the Roman Catholic Church. The members are called Jesuits and are also known colloquially as "God's Marines",[2] these being references to founder Ignatius of Loyola's military background and members' willingness to accept orders anywhere in the world and live in extreme conditions.

    Ignatius of Loyola, while studying at Salamanca in 1527, was brought before an ecclesiastical commission on a charge of sympathy with the alumbrados, but escaped with an admonition.

    Point being... We know have a Pope, who is part of an order than has formented revolution (Che Guevara and others) throughout the world, RUNS the Vatican observatory at Mt Graham in AZ, and is in the process of LOOKING for alien life that will be part of a great conspiracy to force Catholics to accept a new gospel from 'enlightened beings'.

    Listen to this interview with Tom Horn on Haggman and Haggman... and his book(s) Petrus Romanus and (coming out this month), Exo-Vaticana.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzYCBgxl7cw

    And...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y01LDOq7ePw
    Why is owning pets better than owning kids? Because if they get pregnant, you can sell their children.

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  6. #86
    Lone Eagle Woman, the 2016 Olympics will be in Rio in Brazil, not Argentina.

    A

  7. #87
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    I just wanted to add, that as a RC, I find all of these conspiracy theories refreshingly offensive.

    Carry on folks.
    "The most intriguing point for the historian is that where history and legend meet."

    "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who think they are free."

    Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by bethshaya View Post
    Latin for "Compassionate by Choice". However, my Latin is very rusty after 16 years of Catholic school.
    OK, a better translation...

    "lowly, and yet chosen"


    I was close....

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  9. #89
    Here is something I find interesting. Although at this point we don't know why the pope chose the name Francis, it could be that he picked that name after St. Francis of Assisi. In reading about St. Francis, I found this:

    "His (St. Francis) search for conversion led him to the ancient church at San Damiano. While he was praying there, he heard Christ on the crucifix speak to him, "Francis, repair my church."

    Very interesting if the pope took the name Francis after St. Francis of Assisi.
    "Doom is always a day away..."

  10. #90
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    True, my mistake about the next Olympics. Sorry!

    But personally am not a Catholic and never will be. And I personally will never trust a Jesuit whoever he may be. And this is just me.
    From an Old Sign Up the South Fork of the Shoshone River near Cody, Wyoming ...

    ' At The End Of The Road Where The Trails and Life begin'

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Baron View Post
    I just wanted to add, that as a RC, I find all of these conspiracy theories refreshingly offensive.

    Carry on folks.
    RB,

    Did you truly expect ANYTHING else, especially since finding out he was a Jesuit? And I agree with you, BTW.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by jba48 View Post
    Here is something I find interesting. Although at this point we don't know why the pope chose the name Francis, it could be that he picked that name after St. Francis of Assisi. In reading about St. Francis, I found this:

    "His (St. Francis) search for conversion led him to the ancient church at San Damiano. While he was praying there, he heard Christ on the crucifix speak to him, "Francis, repair my church."

    Very interesting if the pope took the name Francis after St. Francis of Assisi.
    I'm guessing it was St. Francis Xavier, who was a prominent Jesuit priest and co-founder of the Jesuits.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jubilee on Earth View Post
    I'm guessing it was St. Francis Xavier, who was a prominent Jesuit priest and co-founder of the Jesuits.
    Could have been Francis Assisi. His life up until now surely models the way Assisi lived his...humble, modest, lowly. It may be the person he identifies with.

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  14. #94
    You're probably right, Jubilee on Earth. Still find it a tad interesting!
    "Doom is always a day away..."

  15. #95
    I am thinking he chose it for both of those saints, and it would be very fitting.

  16. You know, I just had an epiphany.

    Maybe Fr. Malachi's prophecy regarding "Peter the Roman" is about this: Who was the very first pope? That's right, St. Peter, one of the 12 Apostles of Christ. Perhaps the reference to "Peter the Roman" just refers to the final bookend. You know, Peter the Roman as the first pope, and Peter the Roman as the last pope. We may not even need to dig for characteristics or imagery or symbolism. It might have just been his way of saying "the first and last pope." Just a thought.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wil View Post
    Yup, a lot more to the Jesuits than most are aware, he is also a Roman as his parents are Italian, not sure where the Peter fits in at the moment but definitely an interesting choice, 3/13/13 adding to it all, this date was not a coincidence.
    He was born in Argentina. That makes him Argentinian.
    Jeesh, its stretching more than just a little bit to call him a Roman.
    "I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." -DH Lawrence
    "We do not see things as they are, we see things as we are." - The Talmud

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerryK View Post
    He was born in Argentina. That makes him Argentinian.
    Jeesh, its stretching more than just a little bit to call him a Roman.
    My husband was also born in the USA but came from Italian parents so that makes him of Italian heritage, not American. And believe me, he IS Italian altho doesn't speak the language he is undoubtedly a hot tempered Italian. whoa......

    If both of Pope Francis's parents are Italian that he is also of Italian descent while being Argentinian by birth. SO, he could still be called a Roman by heritage.
    In his heart a man plans his course, but the Lord determines his steps.
    Proverbs 16:9

    We are in so much trouble.



  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerryK View Post
    He was born in Argentina. That makes him Argentinian.
    Jeesh, its stretching more than just a little bit to call him a Roman.
    Argentinian by birth, Italian by blood. Anything but a stretch, no matter how much you may want it to be.
    "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened." - Matt: 7:7,8

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jubilee on Earth View Post
    You know, I just had an epiphany.

    Maybe Fr. Malachi's prophecy regarding "Peter the Roman" is about this: Who was the very first pope? That's right, St. Peter, one of the 12 Apostles of Christ. Perhaps the reference to "Peter the Roman" just refers to the final bookend. You know, Peter the Roman as the first pope, and Peter the Roman as the last pope. We may not even need to dig for characteristics or imagery or symbolism. It might have just been his way of saying "the first and last pope." Just a thought.
    Entirely possible. Good point.

    1Pe 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore of sound mind, and be sober unto prayer

    Mat 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven.

  21. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by jba48 View Post
    Here is something I find interesting. Although at this point we don't know why the pope chose the name Francis, it could be that he picked that name after St. Francis of Assisi. In reading about St. Francis, I found this:

    "His (St. Francis) search for conversion led him to the ancient church at San Damiano. While he was praying there, he heard Christ on the crucifix speak to him, "Francis, repair my church."

    Very interesting if the pope took the name Francis after St. Francis of Assisi.
    My Methodist Father picked up on that one right away! I agree, this has deep meaning. I feel good about this guy but can't shake the feeling that we won't have him long.
    "Why not stay awake now? Who wants to sleep now, with so much happening, so much to see? Living used to be dull, you see...stupid...
    William Faulkner, "The Unvanquished"

  22. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerryK View Post
    He was born in Argentina. That makes him Argentinian.
    Jeesh, its stretching more than just a little bit to call him a Roman.
    Technically speaking, he was born in Argentina to Italian immigrant parents. Much like in America, while you are American, your family has a geneology that comes from another country and it is those characteristics that make you your nationality. Someone born in Germany to Irish parents doesn't make them German any more than someone born to Italian parents in Argentina makes that person Latin American.

    Just saying.

    But calling him Roman, simply because he's Italian is stretching it too.

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  23. #103
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    3 Name Francis Means New Papacy Will Focus on "Reform"

    Quote Originally Posted by jba48 View Post
    Here is something I find interesting. Although at this point we don't know why the pope chose the name Francis, it could be that he picked that name after St. Francis of Assisi. In reading about St. Francis, I found this:

    "His (St. Francis) search for conversion led him to the ancient church at San Damiano. While he was praying there, he heard Christ on the crucifix speak to him, "Francis, repair my church."

    Very interesting if the pope took the name Francis after St. Francis of Assisi.
    Yes, JBA. Clearly, the papal name Bergoglio chose indicates that his false papacy will focus on "reforming" the "church" -- or at least that's what he and the folks who elected him want us to believe.

    I myself am convinced the Novus Ordo apostate "catholic" church is beyond reform -- but I'm just one of those nutty traditional Catholic sedevacantists who's convinced we haven't had a true Pope since Pius XII died in 1958!
    Last edited by Bridey Rose; 03-13-2013 at 11:10 PM.

  24. #104
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    I am not a Catholic and have not generally paid much attention to this pope business. The last one who just resigned actually looked evil to me in some of his photos. From the little I have seen and heard about this one, he seems like a really nice guy. I agree with the above poster who said he has a nice face

    Sherry in GA

  25. #105
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    They said on FOX that during the last Papal election, that he came in second to Ratzinger. So, maybe we should have all seen him as a prime candidate.

  26. #106
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    Inaugural Mass to be March 19th.

  27. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oilpatch Hand View Post
    There may be some portion of that motto missing. The translation I get of "Miserando Atque Eligendo" is "And by choosing a piteous".

    A piteous...what, one is left to wonder.
    The direct translation is "Pitiful and Elite"- which I take to mean living a lowly life of a peasant while serving God.

    Also- Francis is after St. Francis of Assisi- a great man who brought humbleness to the church and was trusted by the Muslims during the Crusades where he taught of Jesus and was highly respected. St Francis is a personal hero of mine- a true man of love & peace.

    The new Pope is ARGENTINIAN. Because he has Italian blood does not mean he is Roman; seems silly from people who demand that all Americans call themselves AMERICANS.

    That's like saying my ancestors cannot be Americans because they were Scottish and Cherokee.
    There is no spoon

  28. #108
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    I have a feeling this Pope will be a martyr.
    "Dark and difficult times lie ahead. Soon we will all face the choice between what is right, and what is easy."
    Dumbledore to Harry Potter, Goblet of Fire.

    Luke 21:36

  29. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jubilee on Earth View Post
    Said eloquently by a friend of mine: "Just to be clear, there is only ONE Holy Father, and He didn't obtain that distinction through an election."
    AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!

  30. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I have a feeling this Pope will be a martyr.
    I suspect you might be right.

  31. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Eagle Woman View Post
    Now have read much about the Jesuits and have heard much that is Not Good! Now just hearing that he is a Jesuit does make me really wonder. How much have the Jesuits in history been behind the persecution of the real believers thru the centuries. Now had to look that up of what the head of the Jesuits is called ..... and it is 'the Black Pope', which I just find interesting!
    Have you ever watched 'The Mission' starring Robert DeNiro and Jeremy Irons? The Jesuits were killed for bringing the Holy Faith to those who were ignorant of it.
    marymonde
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    ``Where the Bishop is, there let the multitude of believers be;
    even as where Jesus is, there is the Catholic Church'' Ignatius of Antioch, 1st c. A.D

  32. #112
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    Originally Posted by Jubilee on Earth
    Said eloquently by a friend of mine: "Just to be clear, there is only ONE Holy Father, and He didn't obtain that distinction through an election."
    Quote Originally Posted by billet View Post
    AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!
    But there are many who sacrifice all to serve God and that should be respected.
    There is no spoon

  33. #113
    This is from a speech Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI gave in January of 2010. I'm starting to feel like this is why Pope Benedict resigned, so Francis could begin the repair of the church. (Full speech here.)

    "A sun was born into the world". With these words, in the Divine Comedy (Paradiso, Canto XI), the great Italian poet Dante Alighieri alludes to Francis' birth, which took place in Assisi either at the end of 1181 or the beginning of 1182. As part of a rich family his father was a cloth merchant Francis lived a carefree adolescence and youth, cultivating the chivalrous ideals of the time. At age 20, he took part in a military campaign and was taken prisoner. He became ill and was freed.

    After his return to Assisi, a slow process of spiritual conversion began within him, which brought him to gradually abandon the worldly lifestyle that he had adopted thus far. The famous episodes of Francis' meeting with the leper to whom, dismounting from his horse, he gave the kiss of peace and of the message from the Crucifix in the small Church of St Damian, date pack to this period. Three times Christ on the Cross came to life, and told him: "Go, Francis, and repair my Church in ruins".

    This simple occurrence of the word of God heard in the Church of St Damian contains a profound symbolism. At that moment St Francis was called to repair the small church, but the ruinous state of the building was a symbol of the dramatic and disquieting situation of the Church herself. At that time the Church had a superficial faith which did not shape or transform life, a scarcely zealous clergy, and a chilling of love. It was an interior destruction of the Church which also brought a decomposition of unity, with the birth of heretical movements.

    Yet, there at the centre of the Church in ruins was the Crucified Lord, and he spoke: he called for renewal, he called Francis to the manual labour of repairing the small Church of St Damian, the symbol of a much deeper call to renew Christ's own Church, with her radicality of faith and her loving enthusiasm for Christ.

    This event, which probably happened in 1205, calls to mind another similar occurrence which took place in 1207: Pope Innocent III's dream. In it, he saw the Basilica of St John Lateran, the mother of all churches, collapsing and one small and insignificant religious brother supporting the church on his shoulders to prevent it from falling. On the one hand, it is interesting to note that it is not the Pope who was helping to prevent the church from collapsing but rather a small and insignificant brother, whom the Pope recognized in Francis when he later came to visit. Innocent III was a powerful Pope who had a great theological formation and great political influence; nevertheless he was not the one to renew the Church but the small, insignificant religious. It was St Francis, called by God. On the other hand, however, it is important to note that St Francis does not renew the Church without or in opposition to the Pope, but only in communion with him. The two realities go together: the Successor of Peter, the Bishops, the Church founded on the succession of the Apostles and the new charism that the Holy Spirit brought to life at that time for the Church's renewal. Authentic renewal grew from these together.
    "Doom is always a day away..."

  34. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilbitsnana View Post
    Inaugural Mass to be March 19th.
    Feast of St. Joseph.
    marymonde
    +++++++++++++++++++++

    ``Where the Bishop is, there let the multitude of believers be;
    even as where Jesus is, there is the Catholic Church'' Ignatius of Antioch, 1st c. A.D

  35. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysty View Post
    He looks kind. All this time I expected someone sour, I don't know why. Whether these are the end times or not, I hope this is a man that can lead his church in a better direction.
    Benedict always looked like evil incarnate to me. This man looks a lot better.

  36. #116
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    Profile: New pope, Jesuit Bergoglio, was runner-up in 2005 conclave

    Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Buenos Aires, Argentina

    John L. Allen Jr. | Mar. 3, 2013 NCR Today
    Conclave 2013

    Rome

    In the days leading up to the conclave, John Allen offered a profile each day of one of the most frequently touted papabili, or men who could be pope. On March 3, he profiled Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, who was elected March 13 to be Pope Francis. Here is the profile Allen wrote:

    While there are still no tracking polls to establish who's got legs as a papal candidate, the 2013 conclave at least has one objective measure not available in 2005: past performance. Many of the cardinals seen as candidates now were also on offer the last time around, and someone who had traction eight years ago could be a contender again.

    By that measure alone, Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Buenos Aires, Argentina, at least merits a look.

    After the dust settled from the election of Benedict XVI, various reports identified the Argentine Jesuit as the main challenger to then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger. One cardinal later said the conclave had been "something of a horse race" between Ratzinger and Bergoglio, and an anonymous conclave diary splashed across the Italian media in September 2005 claimed that Bergoglio received 40 votes on the third ballot, just before Ratzinger crossed the two-thirds threshold and became pope.

    Though it's hard to say how seriously one should take the specifics, the general consensus is that Bergoglio was indeed the "runner-up" last time around. He appealed to conservatives in the College of Cardinals as a man who had held the line against liberalizing currents among the Jesuits, and to moderates as a symbol of the church's commitment to the developing world.

    Support NCR's coverage of the conclave.
    Donate now!

    Back in 2005, Bergoglio drew high marks as an accomplished intellectual, having studied theology in Germany. His leading role during the Argentine economic crisis burnished his reputation as a voice of conscience, and made him a potent symbol of the costs globalization can impose on the world's poor.

    Bergoglio's reputation for personal simplicity also exercised an undeniable appeal – a Prince of the Church who chose to live in a simple apartment rather than the archbishop's palace, who gave up his chauffeured limousine in favor of taking the bus to work, and who cooked his own meals.

    Another measure of Bergoglio's seriousness as a candidate was the negative campaigning that swirled around him eight years ago.

    Three days before the 2005 conclave, a human rights lawyer in Argentina filed a complaint charging Bergoglio with complicity in the 1976 kidnapping of two liberal Jesuit priests under the country's military regime, a charge Bergoglio flatly denied. There was also an e-mail campaign, claiming to originate with fellow Jesuits who knew Bergoglio when he was the provincial of the order in Argentina, asserting that "he never smiled."

    All of that by way of saying, Bergoglio was definitely on the radar screen. Of course he's eight years older now, and at 76 is probably outside the age window many cardinals would see as ideal. Further, the fact he couldn't get over the hump last time may convince some cardinals there's no point going back to the well.

    That said, many of the reasons that led members of the college to take him seriously eight years ago are still in place.

    Born in Buenos Aires in 1936, Bergoglio's father was an Italian immigrant and railway worker from the region around Turin, and he has four brothers and sisters. His original plan was to be a chemist, but in 1958 he instead entered the Society of Jesus and began studies for the priesthood. He spent much of his early career teaching literature, psychology and philosophy, and early on he was seen as a rising star. From 1973 to 1979 he served as the Jesuit provincial in Argentina, then in 1980 became the rector of the seminary from which he had graduated.

    These were the years of the military junta in Argentina, when many priests, including leading Jesuits, were gravitating towards the progressive liberation theology movement. As the Jesuit provincial, Bergoglio insisted on a more traditional reading of Ignatian spirituality, mandating that Jesuits continue to staff parishes and act as chaplains rather than moving into "base communities" and political activism.

    Although Jesuits generally are discouraged from receiving ecclesiastical honors and advancement, especially outside mission countries, Bergoglio was named auxiliary bishop of Buenos Aires in 1992 and then succeeded the ailing Cardinal Antonio Quarracino in 1998. John Paul II made Bergoglio a cardinal in 2001, assigning him the Roman church named after the legendary Jesuit St. Robert Bellarmino.

    Over the years, Bergoglio became close to the Comunione e Liberazione movement founded by Italian Fr. Luigi Giussani, sometimes speaking at its massive annual gathering in Rimini, Italy. He's also presented Giussani's books at literary fairs in Argentina. This occasionally generated consternation within the Jesuits, since the ciellini once upon a time were seen as the main opposition to Bergoglio's fellow Jesuit in Milan, Cardinal Carlo Maria Martini.

    On the other hand, that's also part of Bergoglio's appeal, someone who personally straddles the divide between the Jesuits and the ciellini, and more broadly, between liberals and conservatives in the church.

    Bergoglio has supported the social justice ethos of Latin American Catholicism, including a robust defense of the poor.

    "We live in the most unequal part of the world, which has grown the most yet reduced misery the least," Bergoglio said during a gathering of Latin American bishops in 2007. "The unjust distribution of goods persists, creating a situation of social sin that cries out to Heaven and limits the possibilities of a fuller life for so many of our brothers."

    At the same time, he has generally tended to accent growth in personal holiness over efforts for structural reform.

    Bergoglio is seen an unwaveringly orthodox on matters of sexual morality, staunchly opposing abortion, same-sex marriage, and contraception. In 2010 he asserted that gay adoption is a form of discrimination against children, earning a public rebuke from Argentina's President, Cristina Fernández de Kirchner.

    Nevertheless, he has shown deep compassion for the victims of HIV-AIDS; in 2001, he visited a hospice to kiss and wash the feet of 12 AIDS patients.

    Bergoglio also won high marks for his compassionate response to the 1994 bombing in Buenos Aires of a seven-story building housing the Argentine Jewish Mutual Association and the Delegation of the Argentine Jewish Association. It was one of the worst anti-Jewish attacks ever in Latin America, and in 2005 Rabbi Joseph Ehrenkranz of the Center for Christian-Jewish Understanding at Sacred Heart University in Fairfield, Connecticut, praised Bergoglio's leadership.

    "He was very concerned with what happened, Ehrenkranz said. "He's got experience."

    Nevertheless, after the conclave of 2005 some cardinals candidly admitted to doubts that Bergoglio really had the steel and "fire in the belly" needed to lead the universal church. Moreover, for most of the non-Latin Americans, Bergoglio was an unknown quantity. A handful remembered his leadership in the 2001 Synod of Bishops, when Bergoglio replaced Cardinal Edward Egan of New York as the relator, or chairman, of the meeting after Egan went home to help New Yorkers cope with the 9/11 terrorist attacks. In that setting, Bergoglio left a basically positive but indistinct impression.

    Bergoglio may be basically conservative on many issues, but he's no defender of clerical privilege, or insensitive to pastoral realities. In September 2012, he delivered a blistering attack on priests who refuse to baptize children born out of wedlock, calling it a form of "rigorous and hypocritical neo-clericalism."

    The case for Bergoglio in 2013 rests on four points.

    First and most basically, he had strong support last time around, and some cardinals may think that they're getting another bite at the apple now.

    Second, Bergoglio is a candidates who brings together the first world and the developing world in his own person. He's a Latin American with Italian roots, who studied in Germany. As a Jesuit he's a member of a truly international religious community, and his ties to Comunione e Liberazione make him part of another global network.

    Third, Bergoglio still has appeal across the usual divides in the church, drawing respect from both conservatives and moderates for his keen pastoral sense, his intelligence, and his personal modesty. He's also seen as a genuinely spiritual soul, and a man of deep prayer.

    "Only someone who has encountered mercy, who has been caressed by the tenderness of mercy, is happy and comfortable with the Lord," Bergoglio said in 2001. "I beg the theologians who are present not to turn me in to the Sant'Uffizio or the Inquisition; however, forcing things a bit, I dare to say that the privileged locus of the encounter is the caress of the mercy of Jesus Christ on my sin."

    Fourth, he's also seen as a successful evangelist.

    "We have to avoid the spiritual sickness of a self-referential church," Bergoglio said recently. "It's true that when you get out into the street, as happens to every man and woman, there can be accidents. However, if the church remains closed in on itself, self-referential, it gets old. Between a church that suffers accidents in the street, and a church that's sick because it's self-referential, I have no doubts about preferring the former."

    On the other hand, there are compelling reasons to believe that Bergoglio's window of opportunity to be pope has already closed.

    First, he's eight years older than in 2005, and at 76 he would only be two years younger than Benedict XVI was when he became pope. Especially on the heels of a papal resignation on the basis of age and exhaustion, many cardinals may balk at electing someone that old, fearing it would set the church up for another shock to the system.

    Second, although Bergoglio was a serious contender in 2005, he couldn't attract sufficient support to get past the two-thirds threshold needed to be elected pope. Especially for the 50 cardinals who were inside the conclave eight years ago, they may be skeptical that the results would be any different this time around.

    Third, the doubts that circulated about Bergoglio's toughness eight years ago may arguably be even more damaging now, given that the ability to govern. and to take control of the Vatican bureaucracy, seems to figure even more prominently on many cardinals' wish lists this time. Although Bergoglio is a member of several Vatican departments, including the Congregations for Divine Worship and for Clergy, he's never actually worked inside the Vatican, and there may be concerns about his capacity to take the place in hand.

    Fourth, there's the standard ambivalence about Jesuits in high office, both from within the order and among some on the outside. That may have been a factor in slowing Bergoglio's progress last time, and nothing has changed the calculus in the time since.

    Whether Bergoglio catches fire again as a candidate remains to be seen; one Italian writer quoted an anonymous cardinal on March 2 as saying, "Four years of Bergoglio would be enough to change things." Given his profile, however, Bergoglio seems destined to plan an important role in this conclave – if not as king, then as a kingmaker.
    "If anyone shall be outside the ark of Noe he shall perish when the flood prevails." St Jerome
    Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus

    Truth

    The ONLY way out of the mess this world has become is for the Pope and the Bishops of the world to Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
    Pray for the Consecration of Russia.

    Peace

    Tulmeadow Farm Grass Fed Beef
    Farm Store

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  37. #117
    If he was born in Argentina and he is 76 then he is born about 1937. This is the height of Facism in Italy and Germany. Agentina was a common destination to get away from what was happening. Wonder what year his parents left Italy? Where was he schooled and enter the order? When did he become a Cardinal? The Jesuits in South & Central America have a history of being big supporters of the communists. Would hide them and transport them and support them. Don't know much about this Pope but the name the Black Pope seems to be a match. He is of Italian decent, parents maybe from Rome. Apple does not seem to fall far from the tree in this regard. If he shows up when Obamanation shows up in Jerusalam about 6 days before passover I will have a whole lot more to say. And if the Obamantion suffers a head wound and the new Pope heals it I will have a better clue as to what this all means. As for now just a new Pope.

  38. #118
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
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    "outside the box"
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    Quote Originally Posted by marymonde View Post
    Have you ever watched 'The Mission' starring Robert DeNiro and Jeremy Irons? The Jesuits were killed for bringing the Holy Faith to those who were ignorant of it.
    In fact, 'The Mission' was filmed in Paraguay- right near the Argentine border.

  39. #119
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Studying Torah
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerryK View Post
    He was born in Argentina. That makes him Argentinian.
    Jeesh, its stretching more than just a little bit to call him a Roman.
    This "Francis" dude is no young sprig. Who's to say he won't up and croak before too long and along comes Pete? Just cuz this guy gets in as the popester doesn't mean he'll fill the new job for years and years.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    "I, YHWH, change not." ~ our Creator
    "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." ~ Albert Einstein

  40. #120
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    AL
    Posts
    19,563
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubble Head View Post
    If he was born in Argentina and he is 76 then he is born about 1937. This is the height of Facism in Italy and Germany. Agentina was a common destination to get away from what was happening. Wonder what year his parents left Italy? Where was he schooled and enter the order? When did he become a Cardinal? The Jesuits in South & Central America have a history of being big supporters of the communists. Would hide them and transport them and support them. Don't know much about this Pope but the name the Black Pope seems to be a match. He is of Italian decent, parents maybe from Rome. Apple does not seem to fall far from the tree in this regard. If he shows up when Obamanation shows up in Jerusalam about 6 days before passover I will have a whole lot more to say. And if the Obamantion suffers a head wound and the new Pope heals it I will have a better clue as to what this all means. As for now just a new Pope.
    Born Dec. 17, 1936

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