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GUNS/RLTD What type of firearm is best for petite female with little hand or arm strength?
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  1. #41
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    My personal preference has been Rugers ... the Mark III or my hubby's LCP. I like the feel of the grip better than anything else I have picked up and tried to use. It might be sentimentality because the Mark III is what I learned to shoot with. Every one is different. The LCP is a good concealed carry for me and I will be getting my own as soon as I can get off this merry go round and get my personal concealed carry. The only thing about the LCP that was a challenge for me is for such a little thing it is loud as the dickens and I had to teach myself not to fight and flinch every time I used it.
    Find my free fiction stories here.

  2. #42
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    Didn't read the thread,just the title. Didn't we have this same discussion about a month ago? Can someone post the link to that thread for additional info?


    Thanks!

  3. #43
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    CountryMouse, scroll down at this site for links and information on how your children can safely learn about guns:

    http://www.nrahq.org/safety/eddie/infoparents.asp

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grantbo View Post
    .380 Rugar LCP
    .38 snub--hammerless

    Yeah I recommend that Ruger LCP and posted a link in post #27 so anyone can see a demo of one in use.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Countrymouse View Post
    Is that true in all states or just in NC (your state)?
    I am just talking about the NC laws.
    Rusty in NC
    Don't tread on me!
    sic semper evello mortem tyrannis

  6. #46
    Countrymouse, yes 4-H does have shooting projects, the NRA has Eddie Eagle, and there are Hunter's Safety Classes.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichtmobile View Post
    Permits? Character reference? WTF is going in some states?
    The original poster is from NC, I am from NC and teach the Concealed carry class so know the gun laws. Yeah I know it sucks, but I am just trying to pass on the information to her so she is prepared so when she goes to look for guns she wont have the hassle of being turned away, and then having to go back to the Sheriffs office and start all over again. Some stores wont even let you touch/handle a pistol without a carry permit or a purchase permit in hand. They don't want to take a chance of dealing with a felon. Even with the instant checks. You still have all the other paper work to fill out when you buy the gun the 4473 forms, this is just something NC makes you go through for pistols. I even make up a bill of sale for any long guns I sell, with a statement that the buyer is legal to purchase. that way you can be covered in case they are not allowed to own a firearm with a face to face purchase. which is legal here with no paper work ie 4473 forms. but if they should be a felon, you have a statement by them saying that they were legal, so they lied. you are covered.
    Rusty in NC
    Don't tread on me!
    sic semper evello mortem tyrannis

  8. #48
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    Too much hassle in NC....in Maine, you walk in, pick out the gun, they call for the nics check and you pay and leave with the gun. Only type you can't get is full auto without the fed license for one first. Other than that, you can buy anything you want with a nics. Now, if you buy private, you don't have to fill anything out.
    Then cause it's Maine you can strap it on your hip and walk down the street with it, lol.......Open carry up here....
    In his heart a man plans his course, but the Lord determines his steps.
    Proverbs 16:9

    We are in so much trouble.



  9. #49
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    Have you looked into the Walther p22. I have one and love it. Its super easy to operate, reliable, and is light with low recoil. Sure its a .22 but its better than nothing.
    Preparedness, when properly pursued, is a way of life, not a sudden, spectacular program.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by eXe View Post
    Have you looked into the Walther p22. I have one and love it. Its super easy to operate, reliable, and is light with low recoil. Sure its a .22 but its better than nothing.
    the P22 actually feels less toy like than the P99

    Sig now do the P226 / P229 / P220 in .22lr and sell a conversion kit to convert it into a 9mm, .357sig, .40s&w, .45acp
    Si vis pacem para bellum.

  11. #51
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    Open carry here too, but then, a lot of northern transplants coming down here like to make phone calls when they see open carried fire arms so that causes a lot of stops for questions. even though open carry is perfectly legal here also!
    Rusty in NC
    Don't tread on me!
    sic semper evello mortem tyrannis

  12. #52
    colt
    Consider the ravens, for they neither sow nor reap, which have neither storehouse nor barn; and God feeds them. Of how much more value are you than a peaky raven?

  13. #53
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    CM, consider a local "Appleseed Shoot" (google em). They will teach the way you want it done because that is how they learned and how they do it.


    Marth, given the ARTHRITIS as the issue the PLR, while a nice piece is WAY too heavy and WAY too hard on the shooter for the purpose being discussed...
    Just because it has not yet hit you in the face does not mean that it has not hit the fan.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marthanoir View Post
    Get a keltec PLR-16, its classed as a pistol but is chambered for .223 and accepts AR mags, minimal recoil from the .223 and the weight of the weapon will soak up most of the recoil, has more punch and penetration than a pistol plus it will be easier to hold with your supporting hand on the forearm, as far as i recall your laws prohibit you putting a pistol foregrip on it as this will class it as a short barrel rifle, if you were our side of the pond you could just add an Ace side folding stock
    the way we were taught to fire similar weapons was with a single point sling on the rear, push the weapon away from you keeping the sling tensioned,


    Attachment 92735
    http://keltecweapons.com/our-guns/pistols/plr-16/

    whoa...

    I just wish Ruger still made that .44mag carbine or maybe they would make a new one in .45ACP?

  15. #55
    As my dad got older he kept loosing his strengh.He had a Bersa .380 automatic. He mentioned one day that he didnt think he had the strengh to cock it any more. I went and got it and unloaded it and sure enough he couldnt.
    I went and got an older .38 Smith&Wesson revolver i had to let him try. single action he had no problem. He had that gun until the end.
    Find someone that has the knowledge to teach you how to use one first,But i think you should try out a revolver in .38 calber.They dont have much kick and to cock the hammer before you pull the trigger is easy.Plus the .38 has the power to take care of a bad happening by using hollow points.

  16. #56
    For absolute efficiency on the receiving end of the firing equation, I would suggest 16" guns such as found on the Battleship Alabama. These weapons admittedly required hydraulic lifting devices and the services of well-muscled, burly crewman to load them, however firing necessitates only the use of an index finger to push a button. Said button-pushing is surely within the capability of even the most muscle-challenged fair maiden!

    Admittedly, the guns are lacking in conceal-ability and they require an even more difficult-to-conceal firing platform: Namely, well, you know...a battleship. These limitations are somewhat offset by the fact that battleships are highly mobile firing platforms and while it would not be possible to transport one in a typical office elevator, it must be admitted that the average compact 9mm or .380 purse gun is not - unlike the battleship - provided with its own transport mechanism to take it to, say, the Suez Canal or the Straights of Hormuz! In any weapons system selection, there are inevitable trade-offs.

    In evaluating any weapon choice, all of the pluses and minuses need to be considered. One of the problems with the usual choice of small pistols is forensic evidence. After dispatching your assailant, there is the inevitable police or coroner's investigation and potentially troubling questions of ballistics, entry and exit wounds and questions regarding the true need to dispatch your attacker. Assuming you successfully negotiate these criminal justice minefields, you then get to enter the realm of civil law. Here, your attacker, who was a 3rd grade dropout, crackhead, pedophile, armed robber with a police record as long as several arms will be portrayed as a pillar of the community who aspired to be both a doctor and a beneficient community organizer!

    At this point, you are assuming that I'm assuming that you are white and your attacker is black, though I'm not actually saying that, even if reality and statistics indicate it's likely to be true, because even if you're black and your attacker is black, but you shot him anyway (How dare you!), you'll still be painted as an Uncle Tom racist, which is way worse than being a white racist and anyway, the use of run-on sentences such as I'm employing here might be your best tactic in the hope of putting the jury to sleep before they can render a verdict.

    So, there!

    But getting back to the forensics issue, the beauty of the 16" battleship gun is that it simply dispenses with the whole thing. There's no nerve-twitching, soon-to-be-corpse with a couple of .356 (and yes, 9mm and .380 are generally considered to be .356 diameter and not .357, like their famous .357 Magnum cousin) diameter holes in his body and bullets that can be traced to your pistol. There are no embarrassing questions. In fact, there's nothing at all for roughly a city block! With the 16" gun, not only do you eliminate a criminal threat to society, but you create an instant urban renewal project and even your most liberal detractors couldn't find fault with that! Ladies, most of you have a background in cleaning around the home and I don't need to tell you that if there's nothing examinable, there's nothing indictable! Can even Mr. Clean or Spic 'n Span give you these kind of results? I thought not!

    So, before you rush out and and follow the crowd by buying a .380 or 9mm, I suggest that you be a little maverick in your thinking. Get ahead of the crowd and become a real trendsetter! Start packing the 16-incher!

    Best regards
    Doc

  17. #57
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    Because of arthritis I suggest single shot shotgun for light weight and you don't have to pump or pull levers; just click off the safety and pull the trigger. At close range you only need one shot. 20gauge might be best choice in junior model. .38 revolver for handgun. Autos are sexy but if you have to clear a jam, with arthritis, that could be difficult. Use the old KISS principle.

  18. #58
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    Well last year I got a pink lady 38 special (it is pink) - and that is a very femi gun but hey I'm a girl and I like pink. Then I went on and got a sawed off shot gun and a new Remington 45. Then I got a 22 Yellow Boy and another regular shotgun (it is old). I'm still shopping for something that I can defend with.
    Maranatha!!

  19. #59
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    I'm a small lady with small hands - I weigh 102 pounds and I can handle all of these smaller guns and the sawed off shotgun is easy to shoot but blows me back a bit. LOL
    Maranatha!!

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by tno5 View Post
    My body problem is terrible arthritis and shoulder problems that don't allow me to hold my arms up very high for long without extreme pain, but I'm sure if needed, I could handle a shotgun and pay for the body pain later!
    I trained a family member, new to shooting, who had bad arthritis. She didn't feel comfortable dealing with the slide on a semi-auto. At first she piced a snub nose .357, but shot .38spl. After feeling confortable, she decided to try a 4" .357 mag, shooting .38spl. New shooters will think the smaller, the easier. However, sometimes a little extra weight will actually make shooting a little easier. If your going to purse carry, I would highly suggest a .357mag, shoot .38spl, and make it a snub nose with a totally enclosed hammer so if needed, you can shoot it from within the purse.

    I don't see a person such as yourself being able to use a shotgun. I'm in pretty decent shape and I hate shooting shotguns.

  21. #61
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    Here's the other recent thread that you should find helpful:

    http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showt...-on-this-board

  22. #62
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    Well, if recoil and weight and cocking a hammer and all that are issues go with a few Claymores properly placed-all it takes is the push of a button-like the remote on your TV.
    One cannot experience Freedom unless they are off the chain.

    "The healthy human mind doesn't wake up in the morning thinking this is its last day on Earth. But I think that's a luxury. To know you're close to the end is a kind of freedom.

    "We will not be the ones in History's notes who stood-by and watched as America fell."

    http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=464&dateline=1324254808


  23. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Publius View Post
    Yeah I recommend that Ruger LCP and posted a link in post #27 so anyone can see a demo of one in use.
    That was very good Publius, I had seen that guy do a couple of gun tests a while ago, and he is very enjoyable to watch.

    That LCP looked very nice indeed, and even though I am not a fan of smaller bullets in pistols, I'd have a close look at one of those if I was able, plus, I had a look at his demo of the Ruger LC9, and that seems even more impressive. I don't know how they compare with each other in the hand (or in price for that matter), but if someone finds the LCP a little small, then the LC9 might fit the bill perfectly.

    His LC9 demo (as I say, no idea how they compare in price):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeLxP...feature=relmfu
    "If we consider the mistakes in men’s disputes and notions, how great a part is owing to words, and their uncertain or mistaken significations: this we are the more carefully to be warned of, because the arts of improving it have been made the business of men’s study." John Locke.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Rastech View Post
    That was very good Publius, I had seen that guy do a couple of gun tests a while ago, and he is very enjoyable to watch.

    That LCP looked very nice indeed, and even though I am not a fan of smaller bullets in pistols, I'd have a close look at one of those if I was able, plus, I had a look at his demo of the Ruger LC9, and that seems even more impressive. I don't know how they compare with each other in the hand (or in price for that matter), but if someone finds the LCP a little small, then the LC9 might fit the bill perfectly.

    His LC9 demo (as I say, no idea how they compare in price):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeLxP...feature=relmfu
    LCP $250-350
    lc9 $ 325-425

  25. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by tno5 View Post
    Because of events suddenly happening in my neighborhood, I feel it best that I go ahead and get myself something for protection that I can carry on me. Because of health problems, I have very little hand strength and also not much arm strength to hold up anything except for a very short time. What would be the best for me to go look at? Also, when it comes to shotguns, what are my choices again?
    www.wellarmedwoman.com

    This would be a good place for you to start reading up on hand guns.

  26. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by American Rage View Post
    LCP $250-350
    lc9 $ 325-425
    Well if the LC9 can be had for $325, given the fun it looks to use, even I'd get one!

    When we get guns back here (it's only ever a question of time), if I am still breathing then, it'll be my second purchase after one of these http://www.charterfirearms.com/produ...ldog_74440.asp (it's that .44 Special thing I suffer from).
    "If we consider the mistakes in men’s disputes and notions, how great a part is owing to words, and their uncertain or mistaken significations: this we are the more carefully to be warned of, because the arts of improving it have been made the business of men’s study." John Locke.

  27. Quote Originally Posted by Rastech View Post
    Well if the LC9 can be had for $325, given the fun it looks to use, even I'd get one!

    When we get guns back here (it's only ever a question of time), if I am still breathing then, it'll be my second purchase after one of these http://www.charterfirearms.com/produ...ldog_74440.asp (it's that .44 Special thing I suffer from).
    Sorry ol' chap, but if you're across the great pond in jolly ol' Londontown, you're screwed.
    Last edited by American Rage; 06-24-2012 at 03:09 PM.

  28. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by American Rage View Post
    Sorry ol' chap, but if you're across the great pond in jolly ol' lLondontown, you're screwed.
    Oh we've had gun bans before, and the eventual panic at the resulting chronic crime and violence is so bad, gun ownership usually becomes compulsory.

    All things do indeed end.
    "If we consider the mistakes in men’s disputes and notions, how great a part is owing to words, and their uncertain or mistaken significations: this we are the more carefully to be warned of, because the arts of improving it have been made the business of men’s study." John Locke.

  29. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by packyderms_wife View Post
    www.wellarmedwoman.com

    This would be a good place for you to start reading up on hand guns.
    Thank you for posting that site link. While their ammunition recomendations reflects some outdated thinking, the general information is concise, well presented, and pretty accurate.

  30. #70
    How about a .60 cal Kodiak...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lzri8dn7p0

    Naw... that big guy had a little trouble with it...

    Honestly though, I would think a .38 special would be appropriate and easily handled. Ammo is cheap and plentiful.

  31. #71
    A BIG issue I haven't seen addressed here is loading the gun. A Glock magazine is very difficult for me - any suggestions? A revolver is a whole lot easier in that regard. But I know very little about alternatives and am reading for my own edification as well. Thank you all for your information and input.
    The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing at the right time, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

    Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.

  32. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Do you have any local pawn shops that deal in guns? Or better yet, a real gun dealer? You need to go in, take a look at what is available, and handle some guns while talking to a knowledgeable dealer.
    I'm going to "ditto" this suggestion and also add that you also need to rent and shoot a few from a local gun range. As far as calibers go, I would look for something in either .38 special or 9mm luger caliber----especially the 9mm.

  33. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Seeker View Post
    A BIG issue I haven't seen addressed here is loading the gun. A Glock magazine is very difficult for me - any suggestions? A revolver is a whole lot easier in that regard. But I know very little about alternatives and am reading for my own edification as well. Thank you all for your information and input.
    While there's a variety of plastic ammunition magazine reloading devices out there, one of the easiest recomendations is to simply remember place the magazine base on a solid platform like a sturdy table and firmly hold it there with your support hand. Then, insert each cartridge correctly using the greatest mechanical (physical) advantage. For many people that will mean repositioning your torso in a more comfortable fashion (usually leaning over the magazine somewhat) and inserting each round.

    New double column Glock magazines are notorious for having really stiff springs. Many people have to down-load the magazine by a cartridge, and sometimes two cartridges, for a week or so to allow the spring & body to relax a bit. It really does become easier after that.

    If you are talking about loading the magazine into the pistol, grasp the magazine in your support hand in a manner where the pad of your index finger is resting on the bullet nose or as close as possible. The base of the magazine should be resting in your palm. When you inset the magazine, first index the rear (or flat portion) of the magazine against the flat part of the magazine well. From this slightly angled area, FIRMLY seat the magazine by pushing upward using your support side and (this is important) as you seat the magazine into the magazine well, make certain the magazine base is resting ONLY on the "hard" part of the heel of your hand. This will allow for a single motion to correctly seat the magazine without pinching your hand or repeated (and silly looking) taps, presses and such to finally get the magaine seated.
    Last edited by Roscoe's Daddy; 06-24-2012 at 04:27 PM.

  34. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roscoe's Daddy View Post
    Thank you for posting that site link. While their ammunition recomendations reflects some outdated thinking, the general information is concise, well presented, and pretty accurate.
    how is the ammo info outdated and why? Just curious is all.

    K-

  35. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by packyderms_wife View Post
    how is the ammo info outdated and why? Just curious is all.

    K-
    In short, it doesn't follow the FBI wound ballistic protocols. A slightly more complete overview can be found at
    M4carbine.net:

    Basic Wound Ballistic Terminal Performance Facts

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    8/23/11

    The last 25 years of modern wound ballistic research has demonstrated yet again what historical reports have always indicated--that there are only two valid methods of incapacitation: one based on psychological factors and the other physiological damage. People are often rapidly psychologically incapacitated by minor wounds that are not immediately physiologically incapacitating. Psychological factors are also the reason people can receive severe, even non-survivable wounds and continue functioning for short periods of time. Up to fifty percent of those individuals rapidly incapacitated by bullet wounds are probably incapacitated for psychological rather than physiological reasons. Psychological incapacitation is an extremely erratic, highly variable, and completely unpredictable human response, independent of any inherent characteristics of a particular projectile.

    The degree and rapidity of any physiological incapacitation is determined by the anatomic structures the projectile disrupts and the severity of the tissue damage caused by the bullet. Physiologically, immediate incapacitation or death can only occur when the brain or upper spinal cord is damaged or destroyed. The tactical reality is that in combat, opportunities for military personnel to take precisely aimed shots at the CNS of enemy combatants is rare due to high stress unexpected contact marked by rapid fleeting movements, along with frequent poor visibility on the battlefield including use of cover and concealment. Thus the reduced likelihood of frequent planned CNS targeting in combat conditions. Absent CNS damage, circulatory system collapse from severe disruption of the vital organs and blood vessels in the torso is the only other reliable method of physiological incapacitation from small arms. If the CNS is uninjured, physiological incapacitation is delayed until blood loss is sufficient to deprive the brain of oxygen. Multiple hits may be needed before an individual is physiologically incapacitated. An individual wounded in any area of the body other than the CNS may physiologically be able to continue their actions for a short period of time, even with non-survivable injuries. In a 1992 IWBA Journal paper, Dr. Ken Newgard wrote the following about how blood loss effects incapacitation:

    “A 70 kg male has a cardiac output of around 5.5 liters per minute. His blood volume is about 4200 cc. Assuming that his cardiac output can double under stress, his aortic blood flow can reach 11 Liters per minute. If this male had his thoracic aorta totally severed, it would take him 4.6 seconds to lose 20% of his total blood volume. This is the minimum amount of time in which a person could lose 20% of his blood volume from one point of injury. A marginally trained person can fire at a rate of two shots per second. In 4.6 seconds there could easily be 9 shots of return fire before the assailant’s activity is neutralized. Note this analysis does not account for oxygen contained in the blood already perusing the brain that will keep the brain functioning for an even longer period of time.”

    Military and LE (law enforcement) personnel are generally trained to shoot at the center of mass, usually the torso, of an aggressive opponent who must be stopped through the use of lethal force. Physiological incapacitation with wounds to the torso is usually the result of circulatory system collapse. More rapid incapacitation may occur with greater tissue disruption. Tissue is damaged through two wounding mechanisms: the tissue in the projectile’s path is permanently crushed and the tissue surrounding the projectile’s path is temporarily stretched. A penetrating projectile physically crushes and destroys tissue as it cuts its path through the body. The space occupied by this pulped and disintegrated tissue is referred to as the permanent cavity. The permanent cavity, or wound track, is quite simply the hole bored by the projectile's passage. Obviously, bullets of greater diameter crush more tissue, forming a larger permanent cavity. The formation of this permanent cavity is consistent and reliable.

    The tissue surrounding the permanent cavity is briefly pushed laterally aside as it is centrifugally driven radially outward by the projectile's passage. The empty space normally occupied by the momentarily displaced tissue surrounding the wound track, is called the temporary cavity. The temporary cavity quickly subsides as the elastic recoil of the stretched tissue returns it towards the wound track. The tissue that was stretched by the temporary cavity may be injured and is analogous to an area of blunt trauma surrounding the permanent crush cavity. The degree of injury produced by temporary cavitation is quite variable, erratic, and highly dependent on anatomic and physiologic considerations. Many flexible, elastic soft tissues such as muscle, bowel wall, skin, blood vessels, and empty hollow organs are good energy absorbers and are highly resistant to the blunt trauma and contusion caused by the stretch of temporary cavitation. Inelastic tissues such as the liver, kidney, spleen, pancreas, brain, and completely full fluid or gas filled hollow organs, such as the bladder, are highly susceptible to severe permanent splitting, tearing, and rupture due to temporary cavitation insults. Projectiles are traveling at their maximum velocity when they initially strike and then slow as they travel through tissue. In spite of this, the maximum temporary cavity is not always found at the surface where the projectile is at its highest velocity, but often deeper in the tissue after it has slowed considerably. The maximum temporary cavitation is usually coincidental with that of maximum bullet yaw, deformation, or fragmentation, but not necessarily maximum projectile velocity.

    All projectiles that penetrate the body can only disrupt tissue by these two wounding mechanisms: the localized crushing of tissue in the bullet's path and the transient stretching of tissue adjacent to the wound track. Projectile wounds differ in the amount and location of crushed and stretched tissue. The relative contribution by each of these mechanisms to any wound depends on the physical characteristics of the projectile, its size, weight, shape, construction, and velocity, penetration depth and the type of tissue with which the projectile interacts. Unlike rifle bullets, handgun bullets, regardless of whether they are fired from pistols or SMG’s, generally only disrupt tissue by the crush mechanism. In addition, temporary cavitation from most handgun bullets does not reliably damage tissue and is not usually a significant mechanism of wounding.

    Bullets that may be required to incapacitate aggressors must reliably penetrate a minimum of approximately 10 to 12 inches of tissue in order to ensure disruption of the major organs and blood vessels in the torso from any angle and through excessive adipose tissue, hypertrophied muscle, or intervening anatomic structures, such as a raised arm.

    Tissue is a denser medium than air; as the bullets strikes tissue, the increased drag on the projectile overcomes its rotational stabilization and the bullet can yaw. If the bullet yaws, more surface area is in contact with tissue, so it crushes more tissue, creating a larger permanent cavity. When a bullet yaws, it also displaces more of the surrounding tissue, increasing the temporary cavity size. Both the largest permanent and temporary cavities are produced when the bullet is traveling sideways at 90 degrees of yaw, allowing the maximum lateral cross sectional area of the bullet to strike tissue and displace the greatest amount of tissue. Longer and wider bullets have a greater lateral cross sectional area and thus create a larger permanent cavity when they yaw.

    Aerodynamic projectiles, such as bullets, cause minimal tissue disturbance when passing point forward through tissue. Deformation destroys the aerodynamic shape of the bullet, shortening its length and increasing its diameter by expanding and flattening the bullet tip in the classic "mushroom" pattern exhibited by deforming jacketed hollow point and jacketed soft point bullets. The larger frontal area of deformed bullets can crush more tissue to increase permanent cavity size and also displace more tissue to increase temporary cavity size. (Note: The Hague Declaration of 1899 prohibits the use of bullets that expand or flatten easily in the human body against combatants in international armed conflict; the Hague Declaration does not prohibit the military use of bullets that fragment or because of their design, yaw upon entry into tissue.)

    Projectile fragmentation in tissue can also greatly increase the permanent cavity size. When a rifle bullet fragments in tissue, each of the multiple fragments spreads out radially from the main wound track, cutting its own path through tissue. This fragmentation acts synergistically with the stretch of temporary cavitation. The multiply perforated tissue loses its elasticity and is unable to absorb stretching that would ordinarily be tolerated by intact tissue. The temporary cavitation displacement of tissue, which occurs following the passage of the projectile, stretches this weakened tissue and can grossly disrupt its integrity, tearing and detaching pieces of tissue. Note that handgun bullets, regardless of whether they are fired from pistols or SMG’s, do not generally exhibit the fragmentation effects produced by rifle bullets. If handgun bullets do fragment, the bullet fragments are usually found within 1 cm of the permanent cavity; wound severity is usually decreased by the fragmentation since the bullet mass is reduced, causing a smaller permanent crush cavity.

  36. #76
    Kathy in FL- Let's say your wrist and combined arms strength may be too weak for charging / reliable loading of a semi-auto pistol or your fingers are too weak to load the magazine of the same pistol...

    Let's say your strong enough to pick up a dry Sunday newspaper off the front porch; then a 13, 16, or 19oz Smith & Wesson J-Frame with a external hammer will allow you to fire at least a .38 Special +P (Pressure) and give you better stopping power than a .38 Special but less recoil kick than a .357 magnum

    Keep in mind the lighter handgun firing the same weight of bullet will experience more felt recoil by the person shooting it.

    I think a 16 to 19 oz external hammer double action revolver, fired in the single action per-cocked mode would fit your requirements with .38 +P cartridges. The 5-Shot revolver should serve your purposes less a flash mob incident.

    Good luck, and present this info to hands on in your area. Preferable a gun shop that a retired LEO works at. I dislike no-experience wannaBe's.

    One of the best ways to implement a weapon of this design is the Israeli push forward of solar plexus instinct shooting to center of mass. Groups like ---> •• <--- this once you do it for a bit.

    Good luck
    Last edited by L.A.B.; 06-24-2012 at 07:24 PM.

  37. #77
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    8,455
    Plasma rifle in the 40 watt range.
    Earth is bootcamp for eternity.
    The Social Security number is a bigger threat to Liberty than Communism or Osama bin Laden.
    The advantage to being a pessimist is that you are often pleasantly surprised.

  38. #78
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    7,410
    Quote Originally Posted by Roscoe's Daddy View Post
    In short, it doesn't follow the FBI wound ballistic protocols. A slightly more complete overview can be found at
    M4carbine.net:

    Basic Wound Ballistic Terminal Performance Facts

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    8/23/11

    The last 25 years of modern wound ballistic research has demonstrated yet again what historical reports have always indicated--that there are only two valid methods of incapacitation: one based on psychological factors and the other physiological damage. People are often rapidly psychologically incapacitated by minor wounds that are not immediately physiologically incapacitating. Psychological factors are also the reason people can receive severe, even non-survivable wounds and continue functioning for short periods of time. Up to fifty percent of those individuals rapidly incapacitated by bullet wounds are probably incapacitated for psychological rather than physiological reasons. Psychological incapacitation is an extremely erratic, highly variable, and completely unpredictable human response, independent of any inherent characteristics of a particular projectile.

    The degree and rapidity of any physiological incapacitation is determined by the anatomic structures the projectile disrupts and the severity of the tissue damage caused by the bullet. Physiologically, immediate incapacitation or death can only occur when the brain or upper spinal cord is damaged or destroyed. The tactical reality is that in combat, opportunities for military personnel to take precisely aimed shots at the CNS of enemy combatants is rare due to high stress unexpected contact marked by rapid fleeting movements, along with frequent poor visibility on the battlefield including use of cover and concealment. Thus the reduced likelihood of frequent planned CNS targeting in combat conditions. Absent CNS damage, circulatory system collapse from severe disruption of the vital organs and blood vessels in the torso is the only other reliable method of physiological incapacitation from small arms. If the CNS is uninjured, physiological incapacitation is delayed until blood loss is sufficient to deprive the brain of oxygen. Multiple hits may be needed before an individual is physiologically incapacitated. An individual wounded in any area of the body other than the CNS may physiologically be able to continue their actions for a short period of time, even with non-survivable injuries. In a 1992 IWBA Journal paper, Dr. Ken Newgard wrote the following about how blood loss effects incapacitation:

    “A 70 kg male has a cardiac output of around 5.5 liters per minute. His blood volume is about 4200 cc. Assuming that his cardiac output can double under stress, his aortic blood flow can reach 11 Liters per minute. If this male had his thoracic aorta totally severed, it would take him 4.6 seconds to lose 20% of his total blood volume. This is the minimum amount of time in which a person could lose 20% of his blood volume from one point of injury. A marginally trained person can fire at a rate of two shots per second. In 4.6 seconds there could easily be 9 shots of return fire before the assailant’s activity is neutralized. Note this analysis does not account for oxygen contained in the blood already perusing the brain that will keep the brain functioning for an even longer period of time.”

    Military and LE (law enforcement) personnel are generally trained to shoot at the center of mass, usually the torso, of an aggressive opponent who must be stopped through the use of lethal force. Physiological incapacitation with wounds to the torso is usually the result of circulatory system collapse. More rapid incapacitation may occur with greater tissue disruption. Tissue is damaged through two wounding mechanisms: the tissue in the projectile’s path is permanently crushed and the tissue surrounding the projectile’s path is temporarily stretched. A penetrating projectile physically crushes and destroys tissue as it cuts its path through the body. The space occupied by this pulped and disintegrated tissue is referred to as the permanent cavity. The permanent cavity, or wound track, is quite simply the hole bored by the projectile's passage. Obviously, bullets of greater diameter crush more tissue, forming a larger permanent cavity. The formation of this permanent cavity is consistent and reliable.

    The tissue surrounding the permanent cavity is briefly pushed laterally aside as it is centrifugally driven radially outward by the projectile's passage. The empty space normally occupied by the momentarily displaced tissue surrounding the wound track, is called the temporary cavity. The temporary cavity quickly subsides as the elastic recoil of the stretched tissue returns it towards the wound track. The tissue that was stretched by the temporary cavity may be injured and is analogous to an area of blunt trauma surrounding the permanent crush cavity. The degree of injury produced by temporary cavitation is quite variable, erratic, and highly dependent on anatomic and physiologic considerations. Many flexible, elastic soft tissues such as muscle, bowel wall, skin, blood vessels, and empty hollow organs are good energy absorbers and are highly resistant to the blunt trauma and contusion caused by the stretch of temporary cavitation. Inelastic tissues such as the liver, kidney, spleen, pancreas, brain, and completely full fluid or gas filled hollow organs, such as the bladder, are highly susceptible to severe permanent splitting, tearing, and rupture due to temporary cavitation insults. Projectiles are traveling at their maximum velocity when they initially strike and then slow as they travel through tissue. In spite of this, the maximum temporary cavity is not always found at the surface where the projectile is at its highest velocity, but often deeper in the tissue after it has slowed considerably. The maximum temporary cavitation is usually coincidental with that of maximum bullet yaw, deformation, or fragmentation, but not necessarily maximum projectile velocity.

    All projectiles that penetrate the body can only disrupt tissue by these two wounding mechanisms: the localized crushing of tissue in the bullet's path and the transient stretching of tissue adjacent to the wound track. Projectile wounds differ in the amount and location of crushed and stretched tissue. The relative contribution by each of these mechanisms to any wound depends on the physical characteristics of the projectile, its size, weight, shape, construction, and velocity, penetration depth and the type of tissue with which the projectile interacts. Unlike rifle bullets, handgun bullets, regardless of whether they are fired from pistols or SMG’s, generally only disrupt tissue by the crush mechanism. In addition, temporary cavitation from most handgun bullets does not reliably damage tissue and is not usually a significant mechanism of wounding.

    Bullets that may be required to incapacitate aggressors must reliably penetrate a minimum of approximately 10 to 12 inches of tissue in order to ensure disruption of the major organs and blood vessels in the torso from any angle and through excessive adipose tissue, hypertrophied muscle, or intervening anatomic structures, such as a raised arm.

    Tissue is a denser medium than air; as the bullets strikes tissue, the increased drag on the projectile overcomes its rotational stabilization and the bullet can yaw. If the bullet yaws, more surface area is in contact with tissue, so it crushes more tissue, creating a larger permanent cavity. When a bullet yaws, it also displaces more of the surrounding tissue, increasing the temporary cavity size. Both the largest permanent and temporary cavities are produced when the bullet is traveling sideways at 90 degrees of yaw, allowing the maximum lateral cross sectional area of the bullet to strike tissue and displace the greatest amount of tissue. Longer and wider bullets have a greater lateral cross sectional area and thus create a larger permanent cavity when they yaw.

    Aerodynamic projectiles, such as bullets, cause minimal tissue disturbance when passing point forward through tissue. Deformation destroys the aerodynamic shape of the bullet, shortening its length and increasing its diameter by expanding and flattening the bullet tip in the classic "mushroom" pattern exhibited by deforming jacketed hollow point and jacketed soft point bullets. The larger frontal area of deformed bullets can crush more tissue to increase permanent cavity size and also displace more tissue to increase temporary cavity size. (Note: The Hague Declaration of 1899 prohibits the use of bullets that expand or flatten easily in the human body against combatants in international armed conflict; the Hague Declaration does not prohibit the military use of bullets that fragment or because of their design, yaw upon entry into tissue.)

    Projectile fragmentation in tissue can also greatly increase the permanent cavity size. When a rifle bullet fragments in tissue, each of the multiple fragments spreads out radially from the main wound track, cutting its own path through tissue. This fragmentation acts synergistically with the stretch of temporary cavitation. The multiply perforated tissue loses its elasticity and is unable to absorb stretching that would ordinarily be tolerated by intact tissue. The temporary cavitation displacement of tissue, which occurs following the passage of the projectile, stretches this weakened tissue and can grossly disrupt its integrity, tearing and detaching pieces of tissue. Note that handgun bullets, regardless of whether they are fired from pistols or SMG’s, do not generally exhibit the fragmentation effects produced by rifle bullets. If handgun bullets do fragment, the bullet fragments are usually found within 1 cm of the permanent cavity; wound severity is usually decreased by the fragmentation since the bullet mass is reduced, causing a smaller permanent crush cavity.
    You should email this to them with an explanation, I'm sure they'd love the input. There is also a FB and Twitter page for the wellarmedwoman and both are VERY popular amongst the ladies!

    K-

  39. #79
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Deep South
    Posts
    1,194
    I have fibromyalgia and arthritis. Which weapon has the least recoil? I dont want to hurt any more than I have to if I have to fire a gun?

  40. #80
    My wife finds her xd 45 easier to use than a mouse gun.

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