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POL LONG FORM CENSUS SURVEYS--GOVT. GIVING YOU A SERIOUS HASSLE OVER THEM?
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    S.W. Mich. near South Bend, IN
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    3,827

    LONG FORM CENSUS SURVEYS--GOVT. GIVING YOU A SERIOUS HASSLE OVER THEM?

    This is a topic that has been discussed ad nauseum, but I couldn't seem to get the search feature to work to review the discussions.(My fault.....I'm sure I didn't understand it.)

    We just got the long form census survey form. A lot of people have said all you need to tell it is name and ages of the residents. And, that many have gotten follow-up phone calls and even visits from census workers, but does anyone here know of serious consequences from not telling all to these nosey forms?
    The form says there is a penalty for not complying.

    By the way, what is a "tag" the search feature asks for? I thought it would be my MM moniker.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    S.W. Mich. near South Bend, IN
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    3,827
    In doing a search on Google, I came across this article that supposedly can be included when returning the census form back to those govt. snoopers.

    To Whom it May Concern,

    Pursuant to Article I, Section 2, Clause 3 of the Constitution, the only information you are empowered to request is the total number of occupants at this address. My “name, sex, age, date of birth, race, ethnicity, telephone number, relationship and housing tenure” have absolutely nothing to do with apportioning direct taxes or determining the number of representatives in the House of Representatives. Therefore, neither Congress nor the Census Bureau have the constitutional authority to make that information request a component of the enumeration outlined in Article I, Section 2, Clause 3. In addition, I cannot be subject to a fine for basing my conduct on the Constitution because that document trumps laws passed by Congress.

    Interstate Commerce Commission v. Brimson, 154 U.S. 447, 479 (May 26, 1894)

    “Neither branch of the legislative department [House of Representatives or Senate], still less any merely administrative body [such as the Census Bureau], established by congress, possesses, or can be invested with, a general power of making inquiry into the private affairs of the citizen. Kilbourn v. Thompson, 103 U.S. 168, 190. We said in Boyd v. U.S., 116 U. S. 616, 630, 6 Sup. Ct. 524,―and it cannot be too often repeated,―that the principles that embody the essence of constitutional liberty and security forbid all invasions on the part of government and it’s employees of the sanctity of a man’s home and the privacies of his life. As said by Mr. Justice Field in Re Pacific Ry. Commission, 32 Fed. 241, 250, ‘of all the rights of the citizen, few are of greater importance or more essential to his peace and happiness than the right of personal security, and that involves, not merely protection of his person from assault, but exemption of his private affairs, books, and papers from inspection and scrutiny of others. Without the enjoyment of this right, all others would lose half their value.’”

    Note: This United States Supreme Court case has never been overturned.

    Respectfully,

    A Citizen of the United States of America


    Perhaps I should include the link to the above article...http://www.truthistreason.net/how-to...-census-survey There are a great many respondents who said what they did. (But, I don't know how many of them sent the govt. that letter.)

    Also, if I were threatened by the Census Bureau, I would insist on seeing a copy of the so-called law.
    Last edited by Michiana MaJo; 04-25-2012 at 06:01 PM.

  3. #3
    The census is done. Last year? Can't remember. Anyway, they didn't send out any long form census forms. You might have one of those Survey of America ( or whatever it's called). Since it's not a census form, your argument wouldn't apply.
    "This place is fantastic! It's like "Gone With The Wind" on mescaline. They walk imaginary pets here...and they're all heavily armed and drunk..."
    Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by big kumara View Post
    The census is done. Last year? Can't remember. Anyway, they didn't send out any long form census forms. You might have one of those Survey of America ( or whatever it's called). Since it's not a census form, your argument wouldn't apply.

    Then tell them to pound sand.

    If I remember correctly, only ONE PERSON was fined by the Census Department, and that was in the 1950's. (Don't take my word on it).
    "Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficial."

    Justice Louis Brandeis

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2001
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    Behind Enemy Lines
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    104,499
    Tags are code words that can be assigned to a thread as lookup shortcuts. Ig you look at the bottom of this tread, you'll see "Tags for this thread". Naturally, there are none. But the OP of a thread or a staffer can add tags.

  6. #6
    We got tons of notices and forms. Burned 'em. Then they pinned one on the gate. We left it there to weather. Then they called us up the other day - some woman asked for hub by name (I had no idea it was a census person), hub talked for many minutes and asked if it was constitutional for them to ask so many personal questions. The BOD was polite at first and then wasn't. She called up last night and when I answered a woman asked if I was (my name) and I answered "Yes". She said she was (name) a census worker so I immediately said - "I'm busy - I have to go have diarrhea" and hung up.

    It was the first thing that came to mind... we are not going to answer the phone for a while; we don't have caller ID but we do have an answering machine.

    We answered the freaking census 2 years ago. These questions are invasive, horrible, unconstiutitonal and none of their DAMN business.
    Asato Ma Sad Gamaya
    Tamaso Ma Jyotir Gamaya

    Leave illusion, come to the Truth
    Leave the darkness, come to the Light

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Tampa Bay, FL
    Posts
    285
    I left half the census questions blank. No repercussions yet. Did the same last time around. We need an acronym for Mind Your F@cking Business....hmmm.

  8. #8
    We had "visitors" as late as 9 PM on Sunday.

    They will try all kind of tactics - I even received a long message with the woman pratically weeping, begging. And yes they will threaten you with heavy fines, never happened.
    A woman in California, a lawyer, was shot to death, after a census worker felt "threatened". The local police came and the rest is history or a tombstone or urn.
    They don't need to survey the dead lawyer in California anymore, she's "terminated". Film Clip Below - Friendly Reminder - Be Polite to the Census People, Say Please and No Thank You.
    Opps. On to the next house.

    Bizarre.

    Remain silent - besides the please and thank you's.

    Besides - a couple of our Congressmen publicly stated that they would not - and you should not - complete the forms, the American Community Survey, which coincidentally is exactly what the Nazi's did a few years before they started the death camps, before they eliminated the refusniaks. So did the US - this is how they knew where each and every Japanese-American Citizen lived.

    Not saying this is what is happening - but if it is, why volunteer ?

    Eventually they go away and find another victim. There are many/multiple surveys besides the American Community Survey.
    A young neighbor of mine has been interviewed by the census people - The Dept of Commerce - for 3 YEARS, I'm sure they know every aspect of her life, its a survey for "younger people".

    Link - to News Report on California Woman Shot 7 Times .... The "visit" to the poor dead womans home WAS AFTER 9 PM AT NIGHT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPR5vW_wfXQ

    Elderly Woman Shot and Killed After Refusing to Answer US Census Worker
    Last edited by inynmn; 04-26-2012 at 12:37 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    241
    We have been harassed with phone calls, repeated mailings and now personal visits. This has been going on for at least 3 months steady due to a deadline approaching. They want a response or stated we could be fined from $100.00 to 5000.00

    I was never able to personally respond(they would call or come by when I was at work), my husband finally talked to the regional coordinator reiterating what we sent in on the census form 2010. The coordinator was very interested in my young adult son living w/ us. He lost his job recently.

    I was irritated w/ my husband. He thought it was no big deal at first, read him some of the questions in the 26 pg booklet. He finally agreed to state only the minimum census info. I think he may of shared more about my son the way he told me about the conversation.

    With all the new EO power, I told him they can have my house but NOT my son.
    Paranoia I suppose but I sense young people are a commodity for this regime.

  10. #10
    sojourner for Truth
    We have been harassed with phone calls, repeated mailings and now personal visits. This has been going on for at least 3 months steady due to a deadline approaching. They want a response or stated we could be fined from $100.00 to 5000.00

    I was never able to personally respond(they would call or come by when I was at work), my husband finally talked to the regional coordinator reiterating what we sent in on the census form 2010. The coordinator was very interested in my young adult son living w/ us. He lost his job recently.

    I was irritated w/ my husband. He thought it was no big deal at first, read him some of the questions in the 26 pg booklet. He finally agreed to state only the minimum census info. I think he may of shared more about my son the way he told me about the conversation.

    With all the new EO power, I told him they can have my house but NOT my son.
    Paranoia I suppose but I sense young people are a commodity for this regime.


    After about 6 months they go away, put you on a list and come back for a couple of months.

    They also try to get into your house, I suspect they have another form they are suppose to complete about what they see and observe.

    Just a suspicion, because they are very adamant about trying to get inside, to sit and "chat".

    Agree they are very interested in the youth. The long, bizarre message left for us went on and on about young people.

    What a joke, they are killing and dismembering the young in undeclared wars daily, barely even a word or 2 in the propaganda press, so its all bullshit.
    Reminds me of the tactics some modern countries are using to identify certain demographics, Pre Crime ?

    Surveillance - Eventually every single home or tent or RV in IOUSA will be visited.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Sandhills North Carolina
    Posts
    23,753
    Quote Originally Posted by Michiana MaJo View Post
    ...We just got the long form census survey form. .....
    WHY?

    Why now?

    The census was counted and the Congressional Districts reapportioned.....WHY are YOU getting another form??

  12. #12
    This is the new or modern "Long Census" the 1st time they tried it years ago many flipped because it was so Naziesque.

    Now it is called "The American Community Survey" - the main survey - which was formerly known as the "long census" , a couple hundred thousand households receive it per month, so eventually, continually, Everyone will be "visited" again and again - and there are many many other "surveys", depends on the target. Some of them are phone surveys, I heard of one that calls parents of teenagers and ask interesting questions, its a Juvenile Crime Survey. Isn't that special ? I can feel the freedom and liberty.
    Some are done at schools without your knowledge, some towns in IOUSA are and have been "monitored" for over a decade.

    I like the way the wording was changed, the name change, reminds me of the fact that the War Department had to change its name almost a Century ago for "marketing purposes". Bernays probably gets the credit for that.

    Expect more of these "surveys", data gathering.

    Excerpts - Link - Fair Use - For Education and Discussion: http://www.wnd.com/2001/06/9670/

    YOUR PAPERS, PLEASE ...
    Feds implement perpetual census
    American Community Survey will be mailed out continually
    Published: 06/16/2001 at 1:00 AM


    by Julie Foster

    Critics of last year’s decennial census “long form” may soon find a similar questionnaire in their mailboxes as the U.S. Census Bureau begins implementing a revised version of the American Community Survey.

    Intended to replace the census long form, which questioned recipients on everything from house size to commute length, the American Community Survey will provide estimates of demographic, housing, social and economic characteristics every year for all states, cities, counties, metropolitan areas and population groups of 65,000 or more. Smaller population areas will also have to participate in the survey, but data for such areas will initially take several years to compile.

    Survey recipients will be selected at random every month using the Census Bureau’s “Master Address File.” The sample will represent the entire United States, and no address will receive the ACS questionnaire more than once in any five-year period.

    In its promotion of the ACS, the Census Bureau says the survey will provide “community leaders and other data users [with] timely information for planning and evaluating public programs for everyone from newborns to the elderly.”

    The decennial census has two parts, the bureau explained: It counts the population and, for the administration of federal programs and the distribution of billions of federal dollars, it obtains demographic, housing, social and economic information by asking one in six households to fill out the “long form.”
    Implementation of the ACS began in 1996, when the bureau began a two-year testing period of the survey. Full implementation of the survey is scheduled to begin in 2003 in every county of the United States. Data will be collected from the survey’s 3 million participants by mail. Like the decennial census, households that choose not to complete and return the form will be visited by Census Bureau employees.

    The bureau says the new system is necessary to provide timely information to undefined “data users.”

    “Data users have asked for timely data that provide consistent measures for all areas,” the bureau says. “Decennial sample data are out-of-date soon after they are published, about two years after the census is taken. Their usefulness declines every year thereafter. Yet billions of government and business dollars are divided among jurisdictions and population groups each year based on their social and economic profiles in the decennial census.”

    Some uses for the information include tracking the well-being of children, families and the elderly; determining where to locate new highways, schools and hospitals; showing a large corporation that a town has the workforce the company needs; evaluating programs such as welfare and workforce diversification; and monitoring and publicizing the results of their programs, according to the Census Bureau website.

    “As an ongoing survey, the American Community Survey is a flexible vehicle, capable of adapting to changing customer needs. Once it is fully implemented, the potential is there to add questions of national policy interest or specialized supplements to help identify the situations of special population groups.”

    The federal government also plans to use the ACS to screen for households with specific characteristics, according to the Census Bureau. Such households could be identified through the basic survey or through the use of supplemental questions.

    “Targeted households can then be candidates for follow-up interviews, thus providing a more robust sampling frame for other surveys,” the agency’s website states.

    One critic of the new survey, who responded to a web-group posting about the ACS, said it is “interesting to note that the federal government has the money (our money) to implement a computerized system that is able to correlate intrusive census questions to an exact address for all the addresses in the USA … yet are completely unwilling to implement a top-notch accounting system that shows all incoming and outgoing flow of moneys, property, materials, wages and other expenditures by category/individual/department/entity.”


    Another ACS critic reluctantly participated in the survey after multiple visits by a Census Bureau employee.

    “Part of me says it doesn’t matter – they already know everything down to when you cut your toenails,” the ACS recipient wrote.
    Last edited by inynmn; 04-26-2012 at 01:03 AM.

  13. Y'all need to memorize and practice saying the following: "On the advice of counsel, I respectfully assert my right under the 5th Amendment to remain silent and decline to answer your question." Don't say anything else. No matter what they ask you, only answer with the above statement. If they ask you how to get out of your subdivision and back to the freeway, only answer with the above statement. They will very quickly become bored.

    Your 5th Amendment right is not just for the court room, but also when talking to ANY gov't employee, especially federal. You cannot be fined or penalized for asserting the Fifth. They can hassle you, but if you give them the above response, they will eventually leave you alone. You can potentially be fined for lying to a federal employee, but only if you try to answer some of there questions with out asserting the 5th. If you are under oath they might also try to charge you with perjury, but again only if you try to answer some of the questions rather than asserting the 5th.

    Just assert the 5th. Nothing else. Simply Simple. Don't be rude. Don't be angry. Don't be obnoxious. Don't be unpleasent. Don't try to touch them (assult and/or battery). Don't let them in your house. Don't let them look through the door. Just Smile, and be a broken record.

  14. #14
    It is interesting - the questions on assets, especially if you "Own Your House Free & Clear" - Whats up with that ?

    This is my favorite blog about the ACS, Enjoy the humor - By Mark Jaquith
    Jan 7 2008 Link - Fair UseL http://txfx.net/2008/01/07/the-ameri...munity-survey/

    The American Community Survey

    I’ve been blessed with The American Community Survey from the U.S. Census Bureau — a meandering 24 page monstrosity with hundreds of invasive personal questions about me and my family.

    The American Community Survey is a nationwide survey designed to provide communities a fresh look at how they are changing. It will replace the decennial long form in future censuses and is a critical element in the Census Bureau’s reengineered 2010 census.

    The decennial census has two parts: 1) the short form, which counts the population; and 2) the long form, which obtains demographic, housing, social, and economic information from a 1-in-6 sample of households. Information from the long form is used for the administration of federal programs and the distribution of billions of federal dollars.

    Since this is done only once every 10 years, long-form information becomes out of date. Planners and other data users are reluctant to rely on it for decisions that are expensive and affect the quality of life of thousands of people. The American Community Survey is a way to provide the data communities need every year instead of once in ten years.

    Oh, one more thing. It is mandatory, and the penalty for refusing to answer all of the questions can be up to $5,000. So really it’s not a survey so much as an interrogation.

    Here are some of the highlights. Keep in mind that all these questions are mandatory:

    * How much do you make?

    * Are you using food stamps?

    * Do you bathe yourself, or does someone have to help you?

    * Are you having sex with any of the people in your house?

    * If so, are you two married, or are you living in sin?

    * Did you get her pregnant this year?

    * Is she also a grandmother?

    * Did she graduate from high school, or is she still in elementary school?

    * Is she “ethnic”?

    * Is she an illegal alien?

    * How’s her English?

    * Dude, are you screwing a blind chick?

    * Is she a shut-in?

    * How many wars has your sex partner fought in?

    * Where does she work?

    * Does your sex buddy take a ferryboat to work?

    * How hard does she work?

    * Is the government giving her money?


    So how is this legal?


    The American Community Survey is conducted under the authority of Title 13, United States Code, Sections 141 and 193, and response is mandatory. According to Section 221, persons who do not respond shall be fined not more than $100. Title 18 U.S.C. Section 3571 and Section 3559, in effect amends Title 13 U.S.C. Section 221 by changing the fine for anyone over 18 years old who refuses or willfully neglects to complete the questionnaire or answer questions posed by census takers from a fine of not more than $100 to not more than $5,000.

    Yikes, sounds pretty serious. What does the Constitution have to say about this?

    The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

    “Enumeration” means “counting.” An enumeration is required every 10 years, but can be performed more frequently. So back to the survey about my private life: is this covered by “in such Manner as they shall by Law direct” ? No. Because it is only an enumeration that shall be made in a manner directed by law. Anything more would be more than an enumeration. So really, there’s only one question that needs to be answered: “number of people in this household.” The answer is two. And other than filling out today’s date, that is all I’m putting on the survey.

    And hey, that took me a lot less time than the 38 minutes they had allotted!

    AND ANOTHER BLOG COMPLAINT - link - Fair Use: http://www.nolanchart.com/article607...ty-survey.html

    Topic: Government's Responsibilities
    Invasion of Privacy :The American Community Survey


    My government wants to know what race I am, how many rooms my home has, if it is paid for, when I leave for work, and how much money I made during the last twelve months. This same group has also lost, misplaced, or had stolen over 250 laptops. Would you submit to this invasion of privacy?
    by EJ Moosa
    (libertarian)

    Monday, March 2, 2009

    I received a letter telling me that soon I would be receiving the American Community Survey, and that I was required to complete it and send it back. I was told that this information was crucial to the planning of my community for such important infrastructure items as fire stations, libraries, and schools.

    The following week I received the 28 page booklet asking me for information that I would not share with 99.9% of the people I know. According to the US Constitution, a census is authorized once every ten years. If you complain to the Census Bureau, they point to Congress for authorizing the American Community Census. My contention is that this is unconstitutional. I reviewed my copy of the Constitution and saw no amendments that altered the frequency of the Census. If I have overlooked it, please point this out to me.

    Second, the Fourth Amendment guarantees my right to be secure .

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    To gather all of the information below, they would have to invade my home, and search my documents for this data. I contend the information requested is my property and the US Government has no valid claim upon it.

    My answers to this survey are not private forever, as in 72 years they are released to the public. None of the questions beyond how many people live at my address would seem to apply to fire stations, libraries, or schools, and so, I must confess I will not be answering them.

    According to the Washington Post, over 1,100 laptops have been reported missing from the Commerce Department since 2001 including over 250 from the Census Bureau.

    Do I really want the answers to the questions below floating around on a laptop that is misplaced or stolen?

    Searching the internet, I have discovered I may be in for some harassment as Big Brother attempts to force me to complete this form. I have read reports of Census workers harassing individuals in an attempt to get them to complete the survey. For some interesting stories check out this link.

    You will read some interesting stories about what will be done to collect the data.

    Since this is not the year 2010 (truth be known I would answer this survey the same way if it was 2010), I feel in no way compelled to share with the government the answers to the following questions about my life the Federal Government wants to know:

    Phone Number including Area Code

    Sex

    Age and Birth Date

    If I am of Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish origin

    My race

    What type of house I live in

    When my house was built(year)

    When I moved into this house(year)

    How large is the lot?

    Is there a business on this location?

    How many separate rooms are in this house, apartment, or mobile home?

    How many of these rooms are bedrooms?

    Do I have

    Hot and Cold Running Water?

    Flush Toilet?

    Bathtub or shower?

    Sink with a faucet?

    Stove or Range?

    Refrigerator?

    Telephone Service?

    How many vehicles of 1 ton or less are kept at this address?

    What fuel is used to heat this house, apartment, or mobile home?

    What was the cost of electricity last month?

    What was the cost of gas last month?

    What was the cost of water and sewer for the past twelve months?

    Did I receive Food Stamps?

    Is my house, apartment or mobile home part of a condominium, and if yes, what are the fees?

    Do I own the house with a mortgage?

    Do I own this house free and clear?

    Do I rent?

    Do I occupy without rent?

    What is the monthly rent for this house, apartment, or mobile home?

    How much do I think this house, apartment, or mobile home would sell for?

    What are the annual property taxes?

    What is the annual property and flood insurance?

    How much is the regular monthly mortgage?

    Does that include the property taxes?

    Does that include the insurance?

    Do I have a second mortgage on this property?

    How much are the monthly payments on all second and junior mortgages?

    Where I was born?

    Am I a citizen?

    Have I attended college or school in the last three months?

    What is my highest degree or level of school completed?

    If I have a bachelor's degree, what is it in?

    What is my ancestry or ethnic origin?

    Do I speak any other languages besides English at home?

    How well do I speak English?

    Did I live here 1 year ago?

    Do I have health insurance?

    What type?

    Do I have difficulty hearing or am I blind?

    Do I have difficulty doing physical, mental, or emotional conditions that make it difficult for me to do errands alone, such as shopping or visiting a doctor's office?

    Am I married?

    Did I get married, widowed, or divorced in the last twelve months?

    How many times have I been married?

    What year did I last get married?

    Am I a grandparent responsible for a grandchild living here?

    How long have I been responsible for the grandchildren?

    Have I ever served on active duty?

    If so, when?

    Do I have a VA service-connected Disability rating?

    What is that rating?

    Did I work for pay last week at a business?

    Last week did I do any work for pay?

    At what location did I do this work?

    What is the address?

    How did I get to work last week?

    How many people rode with me to work?

    When did I leave my house to go to work?

    How many minutes does it usually take?

    Who was my most recent job with? Name and location

    What kind of work do I do?

    What are my most important activities or duties?

    What are my wages for the last twelve months?

    What is my self-employment income for the last twelve months?

    What are my interest and dividends(even small amounts)?

    What are my social security or Railroad retirement amounts?

    What are my Supplemental Social Security Income amounts?

    Did I receive any public assistance or welfare payments from state or local welfare offices?

    If so, how much?

    What was my total income in the last twelve months?

    (To my shock, there is no question about capital gains)

    As I said, I cannot imagine giving anyone I know the answers to all of these questions, and I will not be doing so now.

    All I will say is that one person lives here. If that affects the fire stations, libraries, and schools in a negative way, so be it. But the rest of the information is personal.

    How far are we willing to go to let the
    government into our lives? Is there no limit to what they can sk of us? Or does it fall upon us to not only say "NO", but "HELL NO!!!"

    I understand there is a $100 fine for not completing the form, and a $500 fine for giving false information. Perhaps this could be a new source of revenue for the government: keep your privacy for a $100 fee.

    The Federal Government is supposed to do an accurate headcount every ten years to allocate Representatives for Congress. They are not supposed to dive into my private life regardless of what they believe.

    From the questions they are asking, I can conclude that they are trying to determine how much more "wealth" they can remove from me so that we can "share prosperity" in the future. To provide this Federal Government with this information can only be asking for trouble in the future.

    Did you happen to receive the American Community Survey? If so, what did you do? I would love to read your story.

  15. #15
    Some interesting post from victims - at link - , recent to, up to Feb 2012 - I'm not posting the individual accounts - but there are a couple creepy ones starting at 12/21/2011 - the last one is interesting.
    Couple of film clips, that have made the rounds for years, especially leading up to the last census.

    Link - Fair Use - http://freetoassemble.com/comment/374

    Refusing the Census Bureau's "American Community Survey"
    Submitted by CincinnatusChili on Sun, 01/16/2011 - 1:52pm

    Do you mind answering a few questions?

    * What is your name, address, and phone number?
    * What is your race and ethnicity?
    * How many rooms are in your house?
    * How much do you pay per month in rent or mortgage?
    * Do you or anyone in your home speak languages other than English (please specify)?
    * How many times have you been married?
    * What is the address where you work?
    * Does you house have a flush toilet?
    * What time (to the nearest minute) do you normally leave for work?
    * What type of work do you do for a living?
    * How much money do you make?

    You do mind?! Oh, the information is not for me, it's for the Federal government. Do you mind now?

    The above questions are a small sample of the Census Bureau's 28 page questionnaire that comprises the American Community Survey (sample 2010 questionnaire).

    The census conducts a survey every ten years as required by the constitution to help determine representation in Congress. Article I Section 2 of the Constitution deals with apportionment of representatives and authorizes a census to determine apportionment by state:

    The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

    The census is taken every ten years as part of this constitutional mandate. There used to be two formats for the decennial census - the short form and the long form. The short form contained questions that are used to determine congressional apportionment. The long form contained short form questions, plus additional questions that the census department decided were of interest. Over time, the number of questions on the long form grew, and the response rate decreased (can't imagine why). For the 2010 census, the Census Bureau sent out the short form census to every household. In addition they initiated the American Community Survey which they will send out to 3% of American households every year.

    This year, I received a copy of the American Community Survey. And in answer to the above question - "Yes, I do mind". I already had sent in my short form census form. I believe it's important to fill this out to allow proper apportionment of our elected representatives. When I got the 28 page American Community Survey, I looked at the 28 pages of intrusive questions and promptly threw it in the trash.

    A few weeks later the Census Bureau sent me another copy of the survey. They had not received my response. Surely, I must have misplaced my previous survey. That one went in the trash too.

    Some people who don't respond to the survey report getting phone calls from census workers. In one case as many as eight calls within one day. As I do not have a landline, this didn't happen. Instead, I received letters from the census department and visits from census workers at my house (usually while I wasn't home - they'd leave their card or a pamphlet).

    The letters and pamphlets took pains to assure me of the confidentiality of my responses and how they would never be misused. Oh, really?! Between 2001 and 2006, the census bureau reported 672 lost laptops with 246 of them containing sensitive personally identifiable information. More recently we've seen an example of the government's handling of classified information. A quarter of a million classified State Department documents were leaked to Wikileaks. As for misuse - in the 1940's, the Census Bureau released information to other government agencies for use in rounding up and interning American citizens of Japanese ancestry. Curiously, the letters and pamphlets I received omitted that little fact.

    The pamphlets talk about how the survey assists the government in planning and spending money in "your community" (as though "spending money" were a good thing). The most recent letter begins "Dear Friend" (I'm not your friend, buddy) and states "Title 13 United States Code authorizes the Census Bureau to conduct this survey and therefore requires you to participate or be subject to a fine". Title 13 is the law that authorizes a decennial census (which I participated in). The fine for not participating in the American Community Survey is a regulation that the Commerce Dept. created (maximum of $5,000). They have NEVER fined anyone, and it's not clear that they have the legal authority to do so. In any event, I took the letters and the pamphlets and they followed the surveys into the trash.

    Both Representative Michele Bachman and Representative Ron Paul oppose the American Community Survey. In 2009, Representative Ted Poe (R-TX) introduced House Bill 3131 to make the American Community Survey completely voluntary. The bill never got out of committee. Hopefully, the new Congress will do better.

    Update: Census workers showed up at our door six times and appear to have given up. With the census bureau sending out 250,000 copies of the American Community Survey every month, this posting has become very popular. I will continue to add relevant information to this posting.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Florida Panhandle
    Posts
    600
    If you really want to drive them insane answer their question with a question. I thought the guy that showed up at my house was going to have a stroke.

    After he asked to verify my name and address I asked him where he got the information from. He advised me "he got it from the "Government." I asked him what department of the government he obtained the information from. He advised me that" I didn't need to know that." I advised him if he wanted me to answer his obtrusive questions I had the right to know where he got the information from. He told me "this is information they need to keep "my records (?) up to date.

    I also advised him that as far as I was concerned He really didn't need to ask me any questions as the "Government" already knew everything about me. They knew where I was born, where I've lived since the day I was born, where I worked until I retired, how many times I was married and how many children I had. In fact the "Government already had the history of my life, they just needed to get off their lazy A**es and find someone "competent in computer skills and all their dumb a** questions would be answered."

    There may be a few people on this forum that have a real fear of Big Brother. I had a few years of working with these people due to my profession before I retired. There are those people who really get on a power trip because "they work for the government." I always found in dealing with them if you call their bluff and stand your ground they will back off. Maybe not immediately but in time.

    The standard line they used to give me was "we work for the same government and I've got your back." My answer to that statement was, I've got your back too until you start impeding on my rights and the rights of the lawabiding citizens of this country, then all bets are off.

    I also strongly suggested he read the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. And if he didn't understand them he needed to get educated and understand them.

    Just because they work for the Government doesn't make them infalible, the ladder you climb on the way up and the people you step on
    on the way up will be waiting for you on the bottom and it won't be pretty on the way down. In fact some people have been known to dissappear.

    I then asked if he had any further questions for me? He advised me he did not. Being the gracious person I was standing on the front porch he was really really ready to leave. (It was 90 degrees outside and I didn't offer him the comfort of my air conditioned home or a glass of the iced tea I was enjoying immensely.) I did give him a pocket copy of the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence and the Citizens Rule book which is a copy of the Bill of Rights and Jury Handbook.

    I hope he reads them and learns.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    U.P. Michigan
    Posts
    16,976
    I'm not aware of anyone ever being fined or having jail time for declining to answer the ACS. The courts today pretty much don't have the time or jail space for such foolishness. They simply get people to cooperate either by threatening them or wearing them down with visits and telephone calls. I've not been hit with a long form but I would handle it the exact way I do with the short form. I give them my name, address and how many adults are living at the house and that is it. I have a cell phone which I jealously guard the number of and almost nobody has that. Any mailings I get I return them with only the name, address and number of adults. When they come out it's the same thing. I decline to answer further questions and as I have a warning sign out about having a personal protection dog I cue the dog with hand signals to start showing aggression and that usually chases them off pretty quickly. Sooner or later they tire of it and will cease. You just have to be stubborn and last longer than they do.
    What is the lake of fire? What is it's purpose? Is the lake of fire eternal hell? Is there any hope of escape for those cast into this lake?
    http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    N. Minnesota
    Posts
    4,831
    It's not the "regular" census form. That all happened two years ago.

    I have had that American Community Survey delivered here. I filled out the same info I do on the regular census. Names and ages of people living at this address. They called a couple of times, I told them the info was none of their business, and they quit.

    Same with the USDA Ag census. Jeepers...talk about invasive. Income from all sources, what you grow, who grows it, who owns what. No way. Told them so and they finally gave up.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Michiana MaJo View Post
    In doing a search on Google, I came across this article that supposedly can be included when returning the census form back to those govt. snoopers.

    To Whom it May Concern,

    Pursuant to Article I, Section 2, Clause 3 of the Constitution, the only information you are empowered to request is the total number of occupants at this address. My “name, sex, age, date of birth, race, ethnicity, telephone number, relationship and housing tenure” have absolutely nothing to do with apportioning direct taxes or determining the number of representatives in the House of Representatives. Therefore, neither Congress nor the Census Bureau have the constitutional authority to make that information request a component of the enumeration outlined in Article I, Section 2, Clause 3. In addition, I cannot be subject to a fine for basing my conduct on the Constitution because that document trumps laws passed by Congress.

    Interstate Commerce Commission v. Brimson, 154 U.S. 447, 479 (May 26, 1894)

    “Neither branch of the legislative department [House of Representatives or Senate], still less any merely administrative body [such as the Census Bureau], established by congress, possesses, or can be invested with, a general power of making inquiry into the private affairs of the citizen. Kilbourn v. Thompson, 103 U.S. 168, 190. We said in Boyd v. U.S., 116 U. S. 616, 630, 6 Sup. Ct. 524,―and it cannot be too often repeated,―that the principles that embody the essence of constitutional liberty and security forbid all invasions on the part of government and it’s employees of the sanctity of a man’s home and the privacies of his life. As said by Mr. Justice Field in Re Pacific Ry. Commission, 32 Fed. 241, 250, ‘of all the rights of the citizen, few are of greater importance or more essential to his peace and happiness than the right of personal security, and that involves, not merely protection of his person from assault, but exemption of his private affairs, books, and papers from inspection and scrutiny of others. Without the enjoyment of this right, all others would lose half their value.’”

    Note: This United States Supreme Court case has never been overturned.

    Respectfully,

    A Citizen of the United States of America


    Perhaps I should include the link to the above article...http://www.truthistreason.net/how-to...-census-survey There are a great many respondents who said what they did. (But, I don't know how many of them sent the govt. that letter.)

    Also, if I were threatened by the Census Bureau, I would insist on seeing a copy of the so-called law.
    In 2010 we answered only how many lived in the house and ages. Sent it in along with a copy of this letter. Never heard another word.

    We may not have done this but after our experience with the 2000 census I was STILL mad as he--; after ten years.

    When we received the census form I filled it out and mailed it within a week. After a while a Census worker knocked on the door early one morning. She informed me our form had not been returned and she was there to "take care of it". I told her it WAS filled out and MAILED within a week of receipt. She was quite adamant it hadn't been recieved. So, she ASKED the questions, filling in the form HERSELF. Ok. I looked over it and she'd put down the info I gave her. I signed the form and she TOOK IT WITH HER "to make sure it gets turned it". DH was not impressed with this even though he was at work when she came. His reaction was, "typical government".

    About two weeks after her 'visit' we received another form in the mail. Now, this was getting a little tireing so, being the nice person I am (?) but with patience wearing very thin, it filled out ENTIRELY and MAILED it the next day. About a month later, DH was home when someone knocked on our door. We lived in the "country" and even UPS didn't "deliver" to us. I answered the door and the woman said, "I'm with the census and am here to get your information since you haven't responded to our notices". She was pretty condesending in her tone and DH heard this.
    She was NOT asked in and before I could say one word DH was on the porch. He was just as condesending as she was and asked her if they were using those forms for toilet paper. He told her everything that had happened and how many times we'd actually filled out the form. She said she needed us to do it "just one more time". Well, I'll NOT use his exact words (he does not believe in using foul language in front of women - BUT made an EXCEPTION this time) but suffice it to say, he said NO. We never heard from them again.

    When the 2010 form arrived I filled out only basics and sent it in with a copy of the above letter. We never heard another word out of them.

    I've often wondered if ALL those forms were counted. Back then we lived in a HEAVILY HISPANIC county and there were about as many ILLEGALS as LEGALS. We aren't Hispanic but the head count is what matters and maybe they got more than their "fair share" if all our forms were counted. I have no idea how many more households had this problem but I'd place a hefty bet we were NOT the only one.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Little cabin in da big woods.
    Posts
    22,580
    Last census taker to come to our house was told to get OFF MY DECK and OFF our property. This guy came around about 4 times wanting us to answer his questions. He finally offered us money if we filled it out.........!!! DH declined and told him no. We happened to be in our truck out on the road leaving and DH just drove away.

    We got one hanging on our door a couple years ago. It went to the dump. Lady showed up and asked us to fill out a new one. DH said two people live here. Period. She also was advised to leave. Then there were phone calls which we politely said we would not respond except to how many live here. Period. After about 4 months, they gave up.
    So it's happened twice so far. They come again dh says he is going to put up No Trespassing signs on the driveway. If they come onto our property, we will tell them they are trespassing and that we will be calling the Sheriff dept to come and take them OFF our property.

    It's none of their business. All they need to know is how many live here. Since we were both standing there they can figure out sexes and ages, lol......
    In his heart a man plans his course, but the Lord determines his steps.
    Proverbs 16:9

    Link to IMPAT's fundraiser for a safe car to drive to cancer treatments and local needs.
    http://www.gofundme.com/b1o8x4


  21. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    2,237
    Throw it away. If some one comes asking about it, throw them away....
    Rusty in NC
    Don't tread on me!
    sic semper evello mortem tyrannis

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