Lyme disease

[Deena in GA]

In my research into Lyme disease I viewed this documentary that everyone needs to see: http://www.hulu.com/watch/268761/under-our-skin

It's from 2009, but has a lot of info that most of us don't know about how dangerous Lyme really is, how hard it is to get diagnosed (we're dealing with that now), etc. A nurse friend of ours recommended it and now that I've viewed it, I can see why. Really a must-see for anyone who might be exposed to ticks.

[changed]

I didn't go to the link, but if caught early, lyme disease can be treated with antibiotics. If caught late, antibiotics will kill the bacteria, but the damage that they did can't be reversed.

[summerthyme]

Changed... Lyme is a shapeshifter disease. And it *seems* to have the ability to "hide" in the cells. So, unfortunately, it's NOT always possible to kill off the bacteria even with long term potent antibiotics. A VERY nasty disease. And the reason I have an obscene amount of doxycycline stashed... because a 10 day course of that started IMMEDIATELY after an infected tick bite will solve the problem. And we DO have Lyme infected ticks around here.

I should mention, for those who don't know- Lyme causes severe deformities (and frequently, late term fetal death) in cattle, and likely in other animals. I haven't ever seen it mentioned in human literature, but if it can mess up calves as bad as those I've seen (we tracked it back and it seems to be when the cow is infected around 40-90 days gestation... cattle gestation period is almost identical to humans in length), I can't imagine it wouldn't do the same to humans.

Women who are pregnant and who live in Lyme areas would be very wise to avoid hiking or working in brush, woods or weeds, *at least* in their first trimester. At least until we find out for sure that we're not affected in that way.

Summerthyme

[prepgirl44]

In my research into Lyme disease I viewed this documentary that everyone needs to see: http://www.hulu.com/watch/268761/under-our-skin

It's from 2009, but has a lot of info that most of us don't know about how dangerous Lyme really is, how hard it is to get diagnosed (we're dealing with that now), etc. A nurse friend of ours recommended it and now that I've viewed it, I can see why. Really a must-see for anyone who might be exposed to ticks.

Thanks for posting this Deena.
Your timing is excellent! It was on my list to do some Lyme Dz research this weekend! I have bookmarked it to watch later tonight.

[atvJim]

Knowing and understanding your body is important....3 times over the years I caught Lyme. i spend much time outdoors. I know immediately when I get hit by it and I never get the bullseye rash. After the three days I can't get out of bed to get to the doctor i am right back to feeling normal by the time I get to the doc. Doc gives me a 10 day supply of antibiotics and the matter is closed.

I end it at the first stage. You don't want it to get to the second stage.

[thread]

Thanks Deena. Lyme is a nightmare. I had two bites on the back of my head in July '10 and tested negative at the time. In January of this year, I finally had to insist on being tested again -and it came back positive. I've read that the reliability of the early tests is questionable.

It was heartbreaking to watch (and identify with) the helplessness and frustration of the people in this video. I was outraged all over again by the treatment of the doctors working to help people.

This is a huge problem, that's getting bigger by the minute. People need to watch this (even if they don't think they're at risk, like me), educate themselves further by buying some of the really good books out there, and probably stock up on some doxy - because depending on where you live and your circumstances, you can plan to be very much on. your. own.

[Deena in GA]

For the blessed people, catching it early and getting treated early does work. However, there are cases where even immediate diagnosis and treatment did NOT keep the Lyme from getting worse. And Lyme can be an extremely nasty disease - in many ways. And there are many other tick-borne illnesses out there as well.

It seems, from my reading, that the rate of false negatives of Lyme tests is at least 50%. In at least 90% of the cases that I've heard of, met the people involved or read about they had negative results on the test, at least in the beginning. Part of the problem is that for the CDC to recognize it as Lyme the person has to test positive on each of the five bands. Many only test positive on two or three, so technically they are not classified as having Lyme. However, based on their symptoms they do have Lyme.

My husband has had two negative tests so far, but I didn't know the above when we got the results back, so next time he sees the doctor I'm going to ask for a copy of the results and if some of the bands were positive.

[Samsmom]

That was a good documentary, Deena! Thanks for posting it. I finally got thru it. I had heard of the film but never got around to seeing it. It was hard to watch the little kids. So sad. I didn't realize that Lymes could possibly be the cause of so many other diseases, like Alzheimers or Parkinsons, if I understood that correctly.

Our next door neighbor died in 2005 from massive organ failure about 6-8 weeks after scraping 4 ticks from his navel with his pocketknife. He was in his early 50s. His family had to change hospitals a few days into his illness because they weren't aggressive enough in his antibiotic treatment. His death certificate only showed chronic hepatitis, which he did have a very mild case of. It's hard to figure out how a fairly healthy active man could be dead in just a few weeks. Every major organ systematically shut down.

Another neighbor, around 40, is being treated with physical therapy several times a week and antibiotics for 3 tick borne diseases. He almost died last year.

The ticks are really bad this year, but I'm afraid that over-spraying an area with chemicals to kill the ticks may cause them to develop an immunity and would kill the honey bees and other good insects.

[prepgirl44]

Wow! That was not the kind of "research" I was expecting to do (LOL). But I must say, though not exactly the neat and tidy clinical picture I was looking for, it definitely gave me very important information! Enlightening and downright scary!

For the first time I understand why all the confusion about testing, diagnosis, treatment. And why no one in this area will treat! It put all the pieces of the puzzle together for me.

So thanks again for posting this.

[TBAR]

Thank you Deena for posting this.

One friend was treated for MS for 6 months, his doctor always insisting it was not possible he had lyme disease. Finally went to a Lyme specialist and started that treatment which halted the "MS" symptoms. The damage done in those 6 months will always be with him.

[thread]

If this disease affects you personally, some good books to read are: Cure Unknown-Inside the Lyme Epidemic by Pamela Weintraub, The Lyme Disease Solution by Kenneth Singleton, M.D., and Healing Lyme by Stephrn Harold Buhner. There are Lyme support groups in every state (Yahoo), which can help you to find the help you need.

What frightens me the most about this disease is the increasing prevelance. I've read that the Lyme spirochette is now found in all biting insects, and even if you're not in an area with deer, the ticks can be found on all the critters in the yard - squirrels, rabbits, birds. I might have gotten it by working in my yard/garden. A friend of mine could have gotten it from hanging her sheets outside. (My dog doesn't have it -had her tested immediately -and we purposely avoid walking her in any wooded area or trail.)

The implications of this prevelance are huge, and we are faced with some troubling choices. Do we nuke our yards with toxic chemicals that the little beasties develop immunity to anyway. And what happens to our beloved pets, our gardens, our bees -if we do?

God bless everyone who is touched by this disease, and thank you again Deena for helping spread awareness of what's going on here.

[Deena in GA]

What frightens me the most about this disease is the increasing prevelance. I've read that the Lyme spirochette is now found in all biting insects, and even if you're not in an area with deer, the ticks can be found on all the critters in the yard - squirrels, rabbits, birds. I might have gotten it by working in my yard/garden. A friend of mine could have gotten it from hanging her sheets outside. (My dog doesn't have it -had her tested immediately -and we purposely avoid walking her in any wooded area or trail.)

The implications of this prevelance are huge, and we are faced with some troubling choices. Do we nuke our yards with toxic chemicals that the little beasties develop immunity to anyway. And what happens to our beloved pets, our gardens, our bees -if we do?

Thread, that's the information I've been looking for. Where did you see that it's being spread by all insects? Do you remember? My husband's main symptoms started after he got stung by a bee. Within a few days he had severe pain in every joint. But the sting may have just been coincidental, or just added to something that was already going on, because prior to that and for a while afterward he had had bad headaches every day for weeks that we thought were just stress. He'd also had a stiff neck for some time prior to the bee sting. We didn't think anything about those things because, by themselves, they were fairly minor. Once the joint pain started he has also have tremors in his hands, chills and shaking worse than I've ever seen, insomnia, lack of appetite until they started him on prednisone, and numbness in one leg. All of those are symptoms of Lyme, yet they want to treat him for rheumatoid arthritis despite two negative test results for that.

We have tons of ticks in this area, especially this year. In fact, practically every day we're pulling ticks off ourselves.

[thread]

Deena-

It was in one of the three books I mentioned previously (find them at Amazon) and I will have to wait til later today to find it - sorry. I have to work -but WILL get back to you later today.

Your husband's symptoms are sooooo similar to mine -the shaking, the (ongoing) insomnia and night sweats, etc. I got to know what malaria must feel like.

I think the thing that's buying me some time now (to support my immune system til I find adequate treatment) is beta glucan. Dragonslayer started a thread on it a couple of months ago, and although I didn't respond to the thread (I'm pretty introverted (evidenced by my thread count...) and was too sick to feel sociable or polite enough to thank him.)

I will get back to you.

[davidinthewilderness]

I thought y'all would be interested in these abstracts:

Natural Tick Control Tested
http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2011/110112.htm

Tick and Mosquito Repellent Can Be Made Commercially from Pine Oil
http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2008/080623.htm

Community Sustains Control of Disease-Causing Ticks
http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2009/090323.htm

Ticks Don’t Come Out in the Wash
http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2007/071005.htm

Old-Time Mosquito Remedy May Work Against Ticks, Too
http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2007/070126.htm

Celeste

[TBAR]

Deena,

My friends Lyme disease doctor told him Lyme was now being spread by mosquitoes in addition to ticks.

[thread]

Very interesting info. Thank you Celeste.

[Deena in GA]

Thank you Celeste and thread for the additional info! Hubby scared me even more at lunch today when his hand tremors started up again and this time went into a cramp-pulled in look like the blond woman in the above documentary. He hasn't seen the documentary, so didn't know, and I didn't tell him how bad off she was.

I did get to touch base with someone here in my area today whose husband, and now daughter, both have Lyme. The husband has chronic Lyme (for the last 10 years). She gave me some tips on doctors and such. Unfortunately there are no Lyme literate doctors in this area. They travel to Washington DC to see Dr. Jencek who was featured in the documentary. His practice is now located in DC. I'm going to call the rheumatologist tomorrow and see if they will fax me hubby's Lyme results so I can see if any of his bands were positive. Then I'm going to see if our pcp will refer us to the local infectious disease doctor.

[Ellie]

I was diagnosed with Lymes in 1990, I had it for 2 years before it was diagnosed. I had been seeing a doctor regularly for the symptoms during those 2 years. It was not until I lit up 5 bands on the Western blot that the doctors quit telling me that it was all in my head. (also a spinal tap was 'positive')

At that point the doctors hit the panic mode and started several courses of oral antibiotics which did little or no good and then I was on IV antibiotics for several months.

One of the things that Under Your Skin brought back was the loss of memory and foggy brain. If you know anyone with Lymes one of the kindest things you can do for them is realize they might have memory 'problems' or verbal lapses.

I will never be the super active person I was - and I know that I cannot get too stressed or work too hard or long - or if I get a spider or mosquito or chigger bite, I a 'flare-up' very quickly.

When I start getting 'Lymey' (that is my word after dealing with this for 20 years) I begin with a terrible headache and stiff neck, then the sweats and chills and utter exhaustion. I take to my bed/sofa for 3-5 days and start the doxy. It has gotten better because I only have these attacks about every 3-4 months.

In the mid 1990's, I learned from the Lakota Sioux that Essiac Tea does help.

The most frustrating problem is finding a doctor who knows what is really happening and willing to treat 'forever chronic lymes' and then also the insurance companies can be a real pain.

As for the question regarding mosquitoes as a Lymes vector - it appears the answer is yes - the following link is from Europe

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

[Deena in GA]

Thought it might be helpful to someone else out there to bump this thread again.

We finally found a doctor this week who was helpful. Had to travel three hours each way to him (he's in Jacksonville AL), but it was worth the trip just to have a doctor ask, "have you been bitten by a tick? This sounds like Lyme disease to me." Hallelujah! Hubby has been making the rounds of doctors, getting nowhere but frustrated. The last doctor he saw, an infectious disease guy who was supposed to be good, decided that the horrible joint (and now muscle) pain, sensitivity to cold, headaches, chills and shaking, fatigue, difficulty getting words out, etc. were all due to...ready for this?....sleep apnea. Yep, sleep apnea. What a waste of time and money going to him!

We finally have the beginning of a plan to take on this monster called Lyme. There is sooooo much to learn about it, makes my head hurt sometimes, but I'm determined to do what it takes to get my husband back to health.

[Flashyzipp]

I was lucky when I got diagnosed. I saw a tick on my leg and picked it off. Within 10 days, there was a bullseye rash around it. I went to my doctor who immediately put me on antibiotics. As far as I know, it is gone.

[Deena in GA]

That's great, Flashyzipp! We take ticks off of us all the time, some days as many as 10-15, so we never even thought about it until hubby started with the intense pain. And when they're are incredibly tiny its hard to get them all. We would love to know if the Lyme is something that he already had or if it was when he got stung in January. The symptoms started 3-4 days after getting stung by something that he never saw. They are finding that Lyme is being transmitted by other insects, not just ticks, as someone above mentioned.

[rolenrock]

A very scary disease. Thanks for the reminder of its dangers as we go into the summer season. A good heads up for us all.

[straightstreet]

I heard on our local news that deer ticks in our area are especially bad this year. I did not know until reading this thread that mosquitos were carriers I seem to get bit by one every time I go outside! Deena, I'm sorry about your DH...hopefully both you and he will get some relief soon with the new doc your seeing!

[mudwrench]

is there a test for lyme? i had the tell tale bulls eye once but never saw a tick..... many years ago, now i have severe joint pain that comes and goes. got tested for rheumatoid arthritis... negative. lyme disease has always been in the back of my mind now this has btought it to the front.

[Deena in GA]

Yes, there are tests, but unfortunately, they are not always accurate. Ask to have a Western Blot Lyme test done. Many people never see the tick that bit them and only about half get a rash. In fact, one of the many things I've learned through this process is that the bulls-eye rash is NOT the most commonly found rash associated with Lyme. I don't know why it's the only one ever mentioned. You can see a picture of the other, a solid lesion, (along with a lot of great information) here: www.georgialymedisease.org

[WisconsinGardener]

I just had an MRI scan of my brain yesterday, which I expected to be normal. Instead, I have white lesions in my right frontal lobe and the doctor asks, "Have you ever been tested for Lyme Disease?" Is this the answer to my brain fog and extreme fatigue?

[Ellie]

It could very likely Lymes and yes brain fog goes with Lymes, also I tend to have lost vocabulary use in the last 12-15 years. I also go thru spells of swelling and pain in large joints, often hip and knees. Do you have times of extreme fatigue even when you have not been doing anything?

I was diagnosed in late 80's and confirmed in 90's with chronic lymes, been to Mayo in Rochester and several top research hospitals. Feel free to PM if you have any questions

[SuElPo]

We took one of our dogs to the vet today, and he tested positive for Lyme disease. The vet told me to ask to be tested for it. I already have a diagnosis for Lupus, Sjogren's, and Fibromyalgia. I plan to watch the video, but will wait until later tonight to watch it with my husband.

susan

[Garryowen]

I read a post years ago from a woman in Milwaukee who had suffered from Lyme for several years. She said the only thing that helped her was colloidal silver. She had to take it for about 4 months before she had relief, IIRC.

She had tried numerous other drugs without much help.

[Deena in GA]

Interesting that you said that, Garry! The day after the doctor started my husband on the antibiotic, I started him on colloidal silver. So far there's been no change for the better, but it's only been a week, so I'm holding out hope. We did just get the news yesterday that the latest Lyme test was also negative. Also talked to a guy today that has been suffering for several years now with what the doctors now think is MS, although he has no lesions on his brain. Before they've thought it was something else, but it turned out they were wrong. He's talked with some of the same people I have and believes it's Lyme based on his symptoms, but his doctors are like my husband's in not wanting to look at Lyme as a possibility.

SuElPo, Lupus and fibro are very often diagnosed when Lyme is the culprit.

[Be Well]

An internet buddy who lives in New England and I and a few others were discussing Lyme disease. I asked if he knew where it came from. His answer (and he is not a woo woo type of man at all):

I wish I had kept it but a few years back Yankee Magazine did a long article about it. A pretty thorough analysis more or less concluded that it escaped from the govt. bio facility on Plum Island, NY. The speculation is that the infected ticks escaped the lab and came over to the CT coast via deer that swam the channel. For those not familiar with it, Yankee Magazine is about as respectable as they get. It is an icon of New England and never does tabloid stuff.

[myst]

Great to see this thread and some good information getting out about Lyme. The Govt. word is Lyme is hard to get and easy to cure when it is the opposite. Easy to get and difficult to impossible to cure.

I got bit by ticks about 15+ years ago here in SE Georgia. Starting exhibiting the usual Lyme symptoms (though I didn't know about Lyme at the time) Did a lot of Doctor shopping over the years diagnosed as chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia, arthritis, told by endocrinologist I had hypo thyroid, tested for Lupus but told the labs weren't quite high enough, tested adrenals and was in adrenal fatigue, told I had an auto immune disease, inflammatory process??. After several years talked one Dr into testing me for Lyme, the Elisa test was neg. Dr told me "see I told you, you don't have Lyme.....there is no Lyme in Georgia. After much Dr searching in 2009 I found a Dr in Jacksonville who thought I should be retested for Lyme and Western Blot came back positive. Retested at Igenex, Calif 2010. and many more bands came back positive and also positive for Babesia.

Can't find Dr to treat my Lyme and too sick to travel the distances I would have to so been treating myself with many alternative methods with about 50% improvement. From bed ridden in severe joint and muscle pain and weakness to walking short distances with quad cane. Brain fog improved, still have fine tremors head and jaw, jerking of shoulders but not continuously like it was.

The movie "Under Our Skin" is a great way to learn about Lyme and how serious it is. Be aware Lyme can be transferred to baby in utero and can be transferred thru sexual intercourse. Lyme is a spirochete, similar to Syphilis when treated with antibiotics it drives the spirochete into a cyst form and antibiotics can't reach it....it can stay in this cyst form up to 20 years. This is what makes it so difficult to treat...Lyme infects every organ of the body including brain, eyes, heart, liver etc and even in the bones. If caught within a couple weeks of being infected Doxy does seem to work.

[Deena in GA]

Myst, would you be willing to share what has worked for you? I'd be very interested. Also, there is a doctor I have heard was in Jacksonville FL that is Lyme literate. I don't know if that's the one you went to or not, but someone from this area is going to him.

www.lymediseaseassociation.org is a resource for getting a list of doctors in your area who are Lyme literate.

[myst]

An internet buddy who lives in New England and I and a few others were discussing Lyme disease. I asked if he knew where it came from. His answer (and he is not a woo woo type of man at all):

I wish I had kept it but a few years back Yankee Magazine did a long article about it. A pretty thorough analysis more or less concluded that it escaped from the govt. bio facility on Plum Island, NY. The speculation is that the infected ticks escaped the lab and came over to the CT coast via deer that swam the channel. For those not familiar with it, Yankee Magazine is about as respectable as they get. It is an icon of New England and never does tabloid stuff.

Be Well, If you can get the book Lab 257, it tells the story about the tick/Lyme research that has been going on on Plum Island (off the tip of Long Island) since after WW2. Birds also carry ticks including those with Lyme and that is one reason you will find Lyme along the east coast and up into Nova Scotia.

There is also a documentary "Under the Eight Ball", also tells of govt. experimentation.

For about 100 years Long Island used to have large duck farms "Long Island Duck"....there are none or very few now as all the ducks have been killed off, supposedly by Lyme Disease.

The Government will not tell the real story about Lyme Disease, it is up to us to educate ourselves and spread the word.

[hd5574]

We use Ameriden (Brand name ~ only Ameriden~ on the web) Olive Leaf Extract for Lyme ~ works great ~ it is the only olive leaf that has been through the gov't testing ~ it is standardized ~ works great ~ even on the animals ~ have a dog ~ he's old now ~years back tested high postive for lyme~ he was covered in ticks when we rescued him~ the olive leaf took it out ~ he has no problems from it ~ he is large ~ no hip issues ~ nothing ~ and he is bogging @ 14yrs old
we get a tick bite ~ we take olive leaf ~seems to just kill the bites stops the itching ~ erases the ugly dreaded bullseye in a couple of days~ we have a lot of ticks here~ no way that we aren't bit every year ~just saying that is what we do ~ and we stay well ~ it works ~ I don't ask how~ just take it
hd

hd

[myst]

Myst, would you be willing to share what has worked for you? I'd be very interested. Also, there is a doctor I have heard was in Jacksonville FL that is Lyme literate. I don't know if that's the one you went to or not, but someone from this area is going to him.

www.lymediseaseassociation.org is a resource for getting a list of doctors in your area who are Lyme literate.

Hi Deena, I am a member of both Fla Lyme group and Georgia Lyme group and unfortunately there are no Lyme Drs in Georgia and possibly 2 in Fla Tampa and Naples that couple people have used with mixed results. The doctor in Jax that diagnosed me then told me I would have to find a Lyme Dr as they did not treat Lyme.

Some of the things I use include:Cat's claw, Pau d'arco, Grapefruit Seed Extract, Olive leaf extract, Teasel root extract, MMS(miracle mineral supplement) Lugols iodine, desiccated thyroid, T3, desiccated adrenal, adrenal adaptogens, Rife machine (Doug Coil frequency generator) PE-1 (photon light therapy), colloidal silver (I have generator and make my own); heavy metal chelators, several detox preparations and binders for herxing. Several other herbs and supplements. The things I will not be without are the thyroid/adrenal supplements, the doug coil and the PE-1 and the detox preparations because herxing can be almost worse than the disease symptoms.

[Be Well]

Be Well, If you can get the book Lab 257, it tells the story about the tick/Lyme research that has been going on on Plum Island (off the tip of Long Island) since after WW2. Birds also carry ticks including those with Lyme and that is one reason you will find Lyme along the east coast and up into Nova Scotia.

There is also a documentary "Under the Eight Ball", also tells of govt. experimentation.

For about 100 years Long Island used to have large duck farms "Long Island Duck"....there are none or very few now as all the ducks have been killed off, supposedly by Lyme Disease.

The Government will not tell the real story about Lyme Disease, it is up to us to educate ourselves and spread the word.

From your reading is it then true or likely that it is a lab release, then? Maybe I'll see if I can get some doxycycline just in case to have on hand for the (near/when?) future when medicine is hard or impossible to get.

[myst]

From your reading is it then true or likely that it is a lab release, then? Maybe I'll see if I can get some doxycycline just in case to have on hand for the (near/when?) future when medicine is hard or impossible to get.

Yes, it is the premise of the book that Lyme infected ticks were released by accident or accidentally on purpose. It is a good idea to have a couple weeks of Doxy on hand for any family member that should have an imbedded tick. I just received a supply of Doxy, not for myself because I am allergic but for other family members and got from a source that doesn't require prescription.

[CountryboyinGA]

I was diagnosed with Lymes in 1990, I had it for 2 years before it was diagnosed. I had been seeing a doctor regularly for the symptoms during those 2 years. It was not until I lit up 5 bands on the Western blot that the doctors quit telling me that it was all in my head. (also a spinal tap was 'positive')

off topic, but.....

I'm sick of doctors telling people "its all in your head" instead of manning up and admitting they don't know. My wife was told that or some variation of it for three years before we finally found a doctor with enough sense to know it was trigeminal neuralgia. She spent three YEARS in the bed/on the sofa in pain that was "all in her head". She told one doctor "yeah no shit the pain is all in my head figure out what is causing it!"


CB

[Cheval]

I read up a lot on this subject when I was bit by a tick in May 2010. A friend of mine was a medical doctor and he told me if I got the rash to let him know and he'd put me on abx. I had a bad feeling so I was looking up all I could find and on the forums they were talking a lot about the natural abx like olive leaf extract, grapefruit seed extract and North American Herb and Spice oil of oregano. Sure enough after maybe 5 or 6 days I got circular rashes all over my stomach and sides, including right where the tick was at (right under my left nipple). Since I already had a bad feeling I had ordered those items and had them here and as soon as I noticed the rash I started on all 3 of them and over the period of a week the rash all went away and I have been fine since and it's been 25 months now. I stayed on them for 2 months. Didn't have any side effects or anything. That stuff also clears up my mother's sinus infection in a few days lol BTW there's also a type of Cat's Claw herb called Samento that apparently works good for people with Lyme's, too. Seems a lot of the people were have better results with the natural stuff then the abx from the doc.

The wife of a friend of mine has been pretty sick with lyme disease. He was telling me that the doctors told her it wasn't lyme disease for awhile until they finally got them to administer the test and finally admit it was Lyme. He said the abx they have her on have been hammering her more and more and now it's to the point that she's going to have to try something else. I told him about the natural and gave him the links to the forums and products at amazon and he's looking into it. Said they're going to have to do something because she's just getting worse.

IMHO I've always believed lyme was man-made. The city of Lyme, Connecticut is where the ferry to Plum Island docks. Coincidence? West Nile Virus also started around Long Island, too.

Also, forget this deer tick stuff. In the alternative forums they're stating most tick species carry it, as well as most bugs that touch your blood: mosquitos, ticks, chiggers, mites, etc. The tick that bit me was a male Lone Star Tick. I still have it in a bag in the freezer. MSM may be catching up as recently I saw on our local news that they're wondering if mosquitos are carrying Lyme.

Lyme forum where a lot of alternatives are discussed:

http://www.mdjunction.com/forums/lym...support-forums

One last thing as this is advice you will be able to take to the bank: ANY, and I repeat A N Y time you're outside you need to check for ticks. Want to know how I was bit? AT&T was out to fix my Internet and I was on the side of the house squatting (not sitting) on the cement patio and talking with the guy while he was working in the box. I never sat on the ground, was near trees or was even in any grass. The tick got on my leg and crawled up. Hiking in the woods may increase your chances but the fact of the matter is if you're outside doing anything at all then you need to check yourself.