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ECON UK Hoarding Fuel
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  1. #1
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    UK Hoarding Fuel

    Petrol, pasties and the politics of panic: No.10 shambles over drivers hoarding fuel, and the tax on takeaway food

    By JAMES CHAPMAN and RAY MASSEY
    PUBLISHED: 09:14 EST, 27 March 2012 UPDATED: 19:50 EST, 28 March 2012
    Comments (125
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    Filling up the family car and buying a hot snack are two of the simple realities of everyday life.
    But yesterday they conspired to plunge the Government into a day which veered between high farce and panic.
    First, ministers appeared to give conflicting advice on how motorists should cope with threatened fuel shortages caused by a looming strike by militant tanker drivers.

    Cabinet Office Minister Francis Maude exhorted people to take the extraordinary step of filling up jerry cans to deal with the impending problem.

    But only hours later, the Prime Minister insisted there was no urgent need for motorists to queue at the pumps.

    Then, in a clumsy attempt to calm criticism of the new ‘pasty tax’ announced in last week’s Budget, David Cameron declared his love of Cornish pasties at a Downing Street press conference.

    However, this was a thinly veiled attempt to deflect attention from their own deep embarrassment over the tanker drivers’ strike, which has been called by the Unite union – Labour’s biggest backer. Critics say Mr Miliband’s refusal to condemn the strike, which would bring chaos to the roads and empty shelves to the supermarkets, is because he is terrified the union’s hard-Left leader Len McCluskey might bankrupt the party by pulling the plug on the funding that it gives it.

    Throughout the day there was an air of unease and confusion around Downing Street.

    Petrol stations began rationing fuel and the Army was put on standby as ministers were accused of spreading panic. Fire brigade unions warned that Mr Maude’s jerry can advice was positively dangerous – and potentially illegal.

    The Prime Minister attempted to strike a more measured tone, insisting there was ‘no need to queue’ to buy fuel but urging people to ‘take sensible precautions’.

    On one of the Coalition’s most presentationally difficult days to date, Mr Cameron then found himself answering questions about plans to slap VAT on items of hot takeaway fare that are currently exempt.

    As Olympics boss Jacques Rogge, in London for talks on the summer Games, looked on in bemusement, the Prime Minister declared his love of Cornish pasties at a Downing Street press conference.

    The Prime Minister was apparently trying to regain the initiative after critics said Chancellor George Osborne’s tax changes demonstrated that the Government was out of touch with ordinary people.


    Fuel rationing returned to forecourts last night as the Army was put at the centre of plans to break a national strike by militant tanker drivers.
    As ministers were accused of spreading panic, David Cameron sought to seize control by drawing up plans to store petrol at military depots and to fast-track the training of troops to drive tankers.

    Motoring groups, however, said the Government had helped create a sense of crisis by suggesting drivers should fill up their tanks – while firemen’s unions warned one minister’s advice to store jerry cans full of fuel at home was both dangerous and potentially illegal.


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1qTH9JSuu
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  2. #2
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    "Potentially illegal" to store 5 gallons of gas 'eh? That is coming here soon...
    ETA... how dare someone take an outcome into their own hands...
    Mathew 24:6 "See to it you are not alarmed." (Though He also said to "keep watch" and build your house "on the Rock".)

  3. #3
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    Its all gone wild west here in the UK...........gonna try and get some petrol but many stations in my area are shut
    We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight on the fields and in the streets, we shall fight on the hills, we shall never surrender.

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    Its all gone wild west here in the UK...........gonna try and get some petrol but many stations in my area are shut
    Please keep us posted Moon - first hand accounts are very revealing.

  5. #5
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    just filled up OK, however first one I went to was closed, you would be staggered at the cost of a tankful

  6. #6
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    Moon and Richard - how concerned are those around you?

  7. #7
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    Moon and Richard, as members here for a long time, I have to say I'm disappointed that both of you weren't already prepared for this...
    Keeping emergency fuel on hand is kind of a no-brainer isn't it?



    Ring the bells that still can ring
    Forget your perfect offering
    There is a crack, a crack in everything
    That's how the light gets in.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    Its all gone wild west here in the UK...........gonna try and get some petrol but many stations in my area are shut
    Don't worry mate, if it all goes Pete Tong I'll send you over a 25l Jerry Can full, ours is expensive but not as expensive as yours is
    Si vis pacem para bellum.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbbuddy View Post
    Moon and Richard, as members here for a long time, I have to say I'm disappointed that both of you weren't already prepared for this...
    Keeping emergency fuel on hand is kind of a no-brainer isn't it?
    Petrol in the UK was around $9usd a gallon equivalent before the current situation , its a small country with a good public transport system, with most people living in cities that are far smaller than US cities, for most people petrol wouldn't be a necessary bulk prep, heck I didn't even have a car when I lived there
    Si vis pacem para bellum.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyBoy View Post
    "Potentially illegal" to store 5 gallons of gas 'eh? That is coming here soon...
    ETA... how dare someone take an outcome into their own hands...
    Many communities for decades have had limits the amount of gasoline a homeowner can store for safety reasons. You'd be surprised at how stupid and unsafe some people store something so flammable, then again maybe you would be surprised.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marthanoir View Post
    Petrol in the UK was around $9usd a gallon equivalent before the current situation , its a small country with a good public transport system, with most people living in cities that are far smaller than US cities, for most people petrol wouldn't be a necessary bulk prep, heck I didn't even have a car when I lived there
    Marthanoir, they both obviously HAVE cars since they were talking about trying to fill up, and anyway, who wants to be dependent on public transportation in an emergency where you may want/need to GET OUT OF THE CITIES??? Pub. trans. isn't gonna cut it for a prepper...

    and I understand how small it is, I've been several times. No matter how small, planning on hoofing it out of a city in an emergency would not be acceptable to a prepper, that just put you into a herd of stampeding sheep.



    Ring the bells that still can ring
    Forget your perfect offering
    There is a crack, a crack in everything
    That's how the light gets in.
    ("Anthem" by Leonard Cohen) - thank you Leonard

  12. #12


    and here's an article with the latest:

    The great petrol farce: Minister tells drivers to top up when their tanks are half full and guess what? It's pandemonium at the pumps

    Dorset police asks garages to close due to 'dangerously' long queues
    HUNDREDS of petrol stations remain shut today after stockpiling advice
    Halfords report an incredible 467 per cent rise in demand for jerry cans
    Farce as ministers offer conflicting advice amid claims they are stoking crisis
    Buying spree will bring in more than £32m in extra fuel duty, says the AA
    Meanwhile, RAF personnel train to operate fuel lorries to counter walk-out
    Talks over the tanker drivers dispute will not be held before Monday
    Ed Miliband urges government to apologise for ‘shambles on petrol’
    Sales of petrol up by 81 per cent, according to AA

    By Jamie Mcginnes

    Panic buying was spreading today as retailers reported a surge in sales, with one police force even asking petrol stations to close temporarily for safety reasons.

    There was also a run on jerry cans - sales of which were up 500% - as worried motorists heeded the controversial advice of Cabinet minister Francis Maude to stockpile fuel.

    In Dorset, police asked some garages to shut its forecourts over fears the queues stretching onto main roads were a danger to other drivers.

    Meanwhile, increased sales of fuel are expected to bring in more than £32 million in extra fuel excise duty.

    The AA calculated the figure after news that petrol sales shot up by 81 per cent and diesel by 43 per cent.

    The Petrol Retailers Association, which represents around 5,500 garages, blamed advice from the Government on keeping tanks topped up.

    A spokesman said: 'This is exactly what we didn’t want - people panic buying. Deliveries are still being made to garages and we are advising people to continue with their normal buying habits.'

    AA president Edmund King said: 'We now have self-inflicted shortages due to poor advice about topping up the tank and hoarding in jerry cans.

    'This in turn has led to localised shortages, queues and some profiteering at the pumps.'

    Petrol stations in Cambridge have already started rationing by limiting customers to £10 worth of petrol or diesel.

    The chaos followed the incredible farce of ministers issuing a series of conflicting messages to motorists on how to prepare for a national strike by tanker drivers.

    Energy Secretary Ed Davey this morning suggested that drivers top up when their tanks are half empty.

    He said: 'The figures I’ve been given that is on a normal day about a third of tanks are full, so the average tank has a third full and I think if we can increase the average maybe to two thirds, I think people should be topping up when their tanks go below, say, half-full, that sort of figure.

    'There’s no scientific figure, but people when they’re going about going to the petrol station, rather than not filling up totally in order to save a bit of cash, and we all know people have real problems with finances at the moment, they should actually go the full hog and fill up when they can.'

    His comments followed advice from Mr Maude that motorists should consider storing petrol in jerry cans at home.

    The messages have been roundly criticised and today Labour leader Ed Miliband called on David Cameron and Mr Maude to apologise for causing a 'shambles on petrol'.

    Hundreds of petrol stations across the country have been forced to close thanks to panicking drivers flooding forecourts, the AA told MailOnline.

    Other motoring organisations and filling station bodies have been reluctant to provide an exact number of closures - possibly over fears that precise details could exacerbate the situation.

    Talks over the tanker drivers dispute will not be held before Monday, the conciliation service Acas announced today.

    Acas officials have been in contact with the Unite union and seven distribution companies involved in the row in a bid to convene a meeting and head off the threat of industrial action.

    An Acas spokesman said: 'Acas has been in contact with Unite officials as well as all the contractors involved in the fuel tanker drivers' dispute. We are now in the process of receiving more detailed briefings from the parties on the various issues underpinning the dispute.

    'This will enable us to determine more clearly the form substantive talks should take to provide the best opportunity for a negotiated settlement.

    'We should conclude that process by Monday and would then hope substantive discussions would follow shortly afterwards.'

    But there is little evidence to suggest that panic buying is dying down.

    In Dorset, police said they had to ask five petrol stations - four in the Bournemouth and Christchurch area, and one in Weymouth - to close until the queues had eased off.

    Chief Inspector Nick Maton said: 'Where we have received reports of traffic chaos on the public highway outside these stations, our officers have gone there and advised the garages to temporarily close.'

    There was chaos at petrol stations across Yorkshire today. In Ilkley, where there are just two petrol stations, one ran dry while queues were forming at the second station.

    A motorist was asked to leave the forecourt of one after he snatched the pump out of the hand of a female driver, an eyewitness said.

    Queues were reported in Huddersfield and across forecourts in Leeds while at a Shell forecourt in Moortown, Leeds, there was a queue of 20 cars. One van driver said he had been waiting for 30 minutes to get fuel.

    Only four of the 12 pumps were dispensing fuel as motorists waited patiently.

    In Harrogate, a forecourt on the outskirts of the town had run out of fuel by 11.30am, and in Rotherham, a marshal was directing drivers as queues of around seven cars formed at Asda's petrol station.

    Among signs that there could be worse to come, Halfords today reported that there has been a a 467 per cent rise in demand for jerry cans since Mr Maude's ill-fated comments yesterday.

    Roads Minister Mike Penning, a former fireman, told BBC Newsnight it was a ‘mistake’ by Mr Maude to suggest drivers fill up their jerry cans.

    Mr Penning said: ‘He didn't understand the size of jerry cans.'

    He also said no one from Unite had raised concerns with him over the issues of health and safety, and said it was over the issue of ‘pay’ that tanker drivers would go on strike.

    He added: ‘What we are trying to do is get the common sense approach, if the strike goes ahead we will have shortages so let’s make sure people understand that and go forward.

    ‘There isn’t a strike but a strike is likely to happen. It is common sense...that if there is likely to be a strike don’t queue in the garages, but if you are passing the garage and you are on a quarter or a half a tank top up now because there is no strike.’

    Sales of petrol and diesel increased dramatically yesterday as motorists flocked to garages to fill up.

    Fuel rationing returned to forecourts last night as the Army was put at the centre of plans to minimise disruption caused by the looming industrial action.

    The Labour leader said: 'The Prime Minister is presiding over a shambles on petrol.

    'In a delicate situation which demanded statesmanship, the Government showed partisanship. They made a crude decision to play politics with petrol without regard for the consequence.'

    As ministers were accused of spreading panic, David Cameron sought to seize control by drawing up plans to store petrol at military depots and to fast-track the training of troops to drive tankers.

    Motoring groups, however, said the Government had helped create a sense of crisis by suggesting drivers should fill up their tanks – while firemen’s unions warned one minister’s advice to store jerry cans full of fuel at home was both dangerous and potentially illegal.

    Petrol sales shot up by 81 per cent and diesel by 43 per cent compared to normal, according to the Petrol Retailers Association, which represents around 5,500 garages across the UK.

    Brian Madderson, chairman of the association, told MailOnline today that conflicting advice given by ministers was to blame for the panic buying.

    He said: 'They've handled it so badly. It's ironic that the man in charge of crisis management at the Cabinet Office has actually caused a crisis. The leadership has been woeful and absolutely inept.'

    Mr Madderson said it was far too early for ministers to be telling drivers what to do.

    He added: 'It's just such a bunch of mixed messages. This is far too early for panic to have started.'

    The AA said fuel shortages were the result of poor advice and rumours leading to panic buying.

    AA president Edmund King said: 'There is no fuel tanker strike and therefore if drivers followed normal fuel buying patterns there would be no fuel shortage whatsoever.

    'We now have self-inflicted shortages due to poor advice about topping up the tank and hoarding in jerry cans. This in turn has led to localised shortages, queues and some profiteering at the pumps.'

    The AA said increased sales of fuel from panic-buying by motorists will bring in more than £32million in extra fuel excise duty.

    Despite officials insisting there was no cause for panic, long queues and soaring prices were seen at many forecourts, with some petrol stations imposing limits of as little as £10 on purchases.

    In other developments:

    Sales of petrol were up 81 per cent compared to normal, and sales of diesel up 43 per cent;
    Unions said a strike could deplete petrol stocks within two days;
    RAF personnel began training to drive tankers, while officials drew up plans to use ‘rubberised military containers’ to store fuel;
    Labour leader Ed Miliband again refused to condemn the strike, led by Unite, which has given Labour £5million since he became leader;
    Retailers urged both ministers and motorists to keep a ‘cool head’.

    Downing Street dismissed Labour claims that it was deliberately stoking up anxiety in an attempt to highlight the Opposition’s links with Unite.

    On Tuesday, No 10 urged motorists to make ‘contingency plans’ for a strike by drivers who are demanding minimum standards on pay, hours, holiday and redundancy.

    Unite represents around 2,000 drivers who deliver fuel to Shell and Esso garages, as well as supermarkets including Sainsbury’s and Tesco, covering 90 per cent of the nation’s forecourts.

    Ministers only expect half of drivers to walk out if the strike goes ahead. Though no date has been set, and the union has to give seven days’ notice, April 8 and 9 have been identified as likely dates for action to begin.

    The Government hopes motorists will keep their cars topped up before a strike – rather than driving with the fuel tank half empty – so the country can keep moving in the event of any temporary shortages.

    But even as Downing Street was trying to calm panic buying yesterday morning, Mr Maude compounded confusion by advising people to store jerry cans full of fuel at home.

    ‘There are lives at risk if this action goes ahead as well as massive inconvenience to millions of people up and down the country,’ the Cabinet Office minister said.

    ‘The greater the extent to which people have petrol fuel in their vehicles, with maybe a little bit in the garage as well, in a jerry can, the longer we will be able to keep things going.’

    The Fire Brigades’ Union immediately called on Mr Maude to withdraw the advice, claiming it would ‘massively increase’ fire and explosion risks.

    Matt Wrack, FBU general secretary, said: ‘This is not sensible advice. The general public does not properly understand the fire and explosion risk of storing fuel, even if it was done sensibly.

    ‘Those without garages may be tempted to store fuel in the home. In the event of a fire in the house or a neighbouring property, it would be disastrous.

    'It is already against the law to store more than ten litres of petrol in two five-litre plastic containers in the home.

    'As that amounts to little more than a third of a tank in most cars, the advice is of little practical help.'

    Geoff Dunning, of the Road Haulage Association, said there was no real difference ‘between what people call panic-buying and prudent precautions’.

    The Prime Minister denied the Government was trying to ‘raise the temperature’ in the dispute, saying the Government was delivering a ‘very calm, very sensible’ message but there was ‘absolutely no justification’ for a strike.

    ‘I do not want a strike to take place, I hope the talks will be successful. But in government you always have to prepare for any eventuality.

    ‘The British people would expect that. To the British people themselves I would say look, there is no imminent strike. The unions would have to give seven days’ notice of any strike so there is no need to to queue to buy petrol.

    ‘If there is an opportunity to top up your tank if a strike is potentially on the way, then it is a sensible thing if you are able to do that.’
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...opping-up.html
    The world has achieved brilliance without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we do about peace, more about killing than we do about living. If we continue to develop our technology without wisdom or prudence, our servant may prove to be our executioner. - General Omar Bradley

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by bbbuddy View Post
    Moon and Richard, as members here for a long time, I have to say I'm disappointed that both of you weren't already prepared for this...
    Keeping emergency fuel on hand is kind of a no-brainer isn't it?
    I beg your pardon, but you don't live over here and things are not the same in either Ireland or the UK as they are in the US. Especially in the UK, many people simply would have no safe place to store gasoline and because it is so very expensive, even rural people might decide not to keep more than a small amount, at home. But many city people (even suburban people) really wouldn't have a safe place to store any significant amount, many houses are "attached" or "semi-detached" which means they are all stuck together like one giant house. If your neighbors found out you had gasoline in your connected garage (which they might) they would probably call health and safety in a heartbeat.

    Now, in rural Ireland, if you have a diesal car, well your not supposed to use tractor fuel in the car (they dye it and if your caught it is very bad legally) but in an emergency (or collapse) people would just ignore this. Farmers do have tanks of this to run farm equipment and there is a huge underground (illegal) trade in taking out the dyes and selling the stuff to gas stations. I gather the resulting fuel is bad for private cars in the long run, but in a pinch no one would care much.

    But, there are a lot of things very easy to do in the US; that become complicated or usually less urgent in the UK or Ireland. The reverse is true as well, most American households don't consider a few months supply of turf to be an important prep, but most rural Irish do that even if they have never heard the term.

    Canning seems like a no-brainer in the US, but over here it is a very expensive and limited hobby. For years, you could not even buy proper Mason (Kilner) jars, I know because I called the largest canning supply company in London about 12 years ago, and they told me point blank that "no one uses those in the UK or Ireland and we do not supply them, we can order them from France but you have to order 1,000 of them."

    Now, you can get the canning jars, the recession had made pickles popular again but they cost about 4 dollars a jar and there are simply no instructions for pressure canning. It is considered simply "too dangerous" to even talk about even though the jars are identical to Mason jars and even fit the same lids (the jars are metric but the lids are the same, I suspect the same factory in China is making them all). While it is perfectly safe to can in a pressure cooker larger than 6 liters, I'm the only person I know who pressure cans and I have an All American brought in from the States before the postage got insane. I do teach pressure canning, but because of the high costs of supplies, it isn't really viable as a high priority prep item, at least not now. Pickle making and such are good investments of time and energy, but you can do that in regular "jam" jars...

    This is why I always say that knowing your local situation is so important when preparing especially for long term problems.

    Besides, a bit of fuel at home is only going to get a car a very short distance and while a good idea for emergency shortages is not going to last longer than a few days anyway.

    I expect soon we will see rationing here, if current trends continue...
    expatriate Californian living in rural Ireland with husband, dogs, horses. garden and many, many cats

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melodi View Post
    I beg your pardon, but you don't live over here and things are not the same in either Ireland or the UK as they are in the US. Especially in the UK, many people simply would have no safe place to store gasoline and because it is so very expensive, even rural people might decide not to keep more than a small amount, at home. But many city people (even suburban people) really wouldn't have a safe place to store any significant amount, many houses are "attached" or "semi-detached" which means they are all stuck together like one giant house. If your neighbors found out you had gasoline in your connected garage (which they might) they would probably call health and safety in a heartbeat.

    Now, in rural Ireland, if you have a diesal car, well your not supposed to use tractor fuel in the car (they dye it and if your caught it is very bad legally) but in an emergency (or collapse) people would just ignore this. Farmers do have tanks of this to run farm equipment and there is a huge underground (illegal) trade in taking out the dyes and selling the stuff to gas stations. I gather the resulting fuel is bad for private cars in the long run, but in a pinch no one would care much.

    But, there are a lot of things very easy to do in the US; that become complicated or usually less urgent in the UK or Ireland. The reverse is true as well, most American households don't consider a few months supply of turf to be an important prep, but most rural Irish do that even if they have never heard the term.

    Canning seems like a no-brainer in the US, but over here it is a very expensive and limited hobby. For years, you could not even buy proper Mason (Kilner) jars, I know because I called the largest canning supply company in London about 12 years ago, and they told me point blank that "no one uses those in the UK or Ireland and we do not supply them, we can order them from France but you have to order 1,000 of them."

    Now, you can get the canning jars, the recession had made pickles popular again but they cost about 4 dollars a jar and there are simply no instructions for pressure canning. It is considered simply "too dangerous" to even talk about even though the jars are identical to Mason jars and even fit the same lids (the jars are metric but the lids are the same, I suspect the same factory in China is making them all). While it is perfectly safe to can in a pressure cooker larger than 6 liters, I'm the only person I know who pressure cans and I have an All American brought in from the States before the postage got insane. I do teach pressure canning, but because of the high costs of supplies, it isn't really viable as a high priority prep item, at least not now. Pickle making and such are good investments of time and energy, but you can do that in regular "jam" jars...

    This is why I always say that knowing your local situation is so important when preparing especially for long term problems.

    Besides, a bit of fuel at home is only going to get a car a very short distance and while a good idea for emergency shortages is not going to last longer than a few days anyway.

    I expect soon we will see rationing here, if current trends continue...
    Melodi - Thanks for your insight. May I ask - what do you mean by "turf"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bbbuddy View Post
    Moon and Richard, as members here for a long time, I have to say I'm disappointed that both of you weren't already prepared for this...
    Keeping emergency fuel on hand is kind of a no-brainer isn't it?
    in what waY SHOULD WE BE PREPARED FOR THIS, having a great petrol tank or what, we do not have any method of storing petrol whatsoever?

    Where do you keep your supply of fuel and in what form and volume? I'm willing to bet you have no method of storing fuel at all! All mouth and no trousers!
    Last edited by Richard; 03-29-2012 at 03:42 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berean View Post
    Melodi - Thanks for your insight. May I ask - what do you mean by "turf"?
    Dried cut peat blocks, we burn it as fuel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peat we used to have power stations fueled by turf, but now its mainly a domestic fuel
    Si vis pacem para bellum.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marthanoir View Post
    Dried cut peat blocks, we burn it as fuel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peat we used to have power stations fueled by turf, but now its mainly a domestic fuel

    for wood burning stoves or fireplaces?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marthanoir View Post
    Dried cut peat blocks, we burn it as fuel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peat we used to have power stations fueled by turf, but now its mainly a domestic fuel
    Thanks Marthanoir. I had heard about peat before and just didn't connect the two terms.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbbuddy View Post
    Moon and Richard, as members here for a long time, I have to say I'm disappointed that both of you weren't already prepared for this...
    Keeping emergency fuel on hand is kind of a no-brainer isn't it?
    I think you can never have enough, and I'd go for a little more too.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berean View Post
    I think you can never have enough, and I'd go for a little more too.
    so what are we meant to do store gallons of petrol? because of a possible future strike?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    in what waY SHOULD WE BE PREPARED FOR THIS, having a great petrol tank or what, we do not have any method of storing petrol whatsoever?

    Where do you keep your supply of fuel and in what form and volume? I'm willing to bet you have no method of storing fuel at all! All mouth and no trousers!
    Get a Vespa & a 5lt can of unleaded that'll keep ye going all year


    If tshtf were you gonna go that you need an underground tank of fuel, I've got what's in my tank plus a couple of Jerry cans in the shed, I'm in the mountains and the nearest large town is 70miles away, I'm already bugged out so where am I going that I need fuel storage,
    Si vis pacem para bellum.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    so what are we meant to do store gallons of petrol? because of a possible future strike?
    You had mentioned that you had gone to fill up. I was simply saying that I would have done the same thing you did (even if I had extra fuel stored.) We have limited possibilities to store fuel because of zoning laws. We try to make sure that the gas cans that we do have are full and and we use the two cars that don't run as a way to store extra fuel as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marthanoir View Post
    Get a Vespa & a 5lt can of unleaded that'll keep ye going all year


    If tshtf were you gonna go that you need an underground tank of fuel, I've got what's in my tank plus a couple of Jerry cans in the shed, I'm in the mountains and the nearest large town is 70miles away, I'm already bugged out so where am I going that I need fuel storage,
    OK fine you don't have this storage now?

  24. #24
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    19,847
    Quote Originally Posted by Berean View Post
    You had mentioned that you had gone to fill up. I was simply saying that I would have done the same thing you did (even if I had extra fuel stored.) We have limited possibilities to store fuel because of zoning laws. We try to make sure that the gas cans that we do have are full and and we use the two cars that don't run as a way to store extra fuel as well.
    no-one has a great facility to store fuel, perhaps in the States a few people have, no-one in Europe has

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    SW Ohio
    Posts
    679
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    no-one has a great facility to store fuel, perhaps in the States a few people have, no-one in Europe has
    Just a few, not many when you look at the big picture.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    11,139
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    for wood burning stoves or fireplaces?
    Both, I use it in my open fireplace & my Stanley range, we've made camp fires with it and I've burnt it in an oil drum BBQ too, either in its raw form as a cut & dried block or processed by a company such as Bord Na Mona,
    The EU is trying to close down a lot of the commercial cutting & the peat fired electricity generating stations.

    They use peat as fuel in Scotland & The Falklands, I'm sure some places in England probably do too,


    Brief History of the Peat Industry in Ireland
    http://www.heartland.ie/articles/bri...dustry-ireland
    Si vis pacem para bellum.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    11,139
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    OK fine you don't have this storage now?
    I meant my tank as in the fuel tank of my 4x4, I don't have any fuel storage other than 2 x 25ltr Jerry cans, I have no intention or need for any other storage than that, when tshtf I'm staying home, it can get on without me, what do I need a couple of hundred gallons of fuel for, I don't have a generator and don't want one, I'm not going to be driving anywhere,
    who's gonna drive around after tshtf, your just making yourself a target,
    Si vis pacem para bellum.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    7,238
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    in what waY SHOULD WE BE PREPARED FOR THIS, having a great petrol tank or what, we do not have any method of storing petrol whatsoever?

    Where do you keep your supply of fuel and in what form and volume? I'm willing to bet you have no method of storing fuel at all! All mouth and no trousers!

    I keep mine in jerry cans and enough to drive 1200 miles in one direction which with this truck is just under 25 gallons assuming the truck already has a full tank. Another words I have enough to get out of dodge if it looks like dodge is going to get whacked by a meteor or buried under eight feet of volcanic ash (Yellowstone). Otherwise it's used for all sorts of things from removing branches, chainsaw, from storm damaged trees, and that seems to happen every year here now, for the wood chipper to chip up all of those branches, and the fall leaves, into mulch, the garden tiller, the snow blower, and the lawn mower. The majority of it is used up by the lawn mower and the wood chipper.

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