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DISASTER Fukushima Reactor Disaster: Japan to Restart Nuclear Plants, Post #7824
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  1. #481
    Quote Originally Posted by ainitfunny View Post
    If you open another tab you can LISTEN TO THE BROADCAST WHILE YOU POST or surf and won't miss important stuff.
    they are repeating that #2 has lost all it's coolant

    and the containment building could explode
    pressure inside the containment vessel is increasing
    Ok They have a special video of it that can be watched.

    http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/14_35.html?play


    The reporter says "Lost all coolant" But the screen says "Losing coolant". The rest of what they say fits with Loosing Coolant. So what you have is a careless reporter who said the wrong thing. They also say that it is the building that could explode- Not the reactor(Although it could)

    So my reasoning turned out to be 100 percent right. If it had lost all coolant then it most likely would have already exploded.

    Here is the writeup(Also at the link):

    Govt:Fukushima nuke plant loses cooling ability

    The Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency says a reactor at a power plant in quake-hit Fukushima Prefecture has lost all its cooling capability.

    The agency said on Monday that Tokyo Electric Power Company notified the agency of an emergency at the Number Two reactor at its Fukushima Number One power station.

    This is the second emergency notice for the reactor.
    The utility firm told the agency shortly after the quake on Friday that the reactor's emergency cooling power system had failed.

    Since then, the company tried to cool the reactor by circulating water by steam power, instead of electricity. But an attempt to lower the temperature inside the vessel that houses the reactor did not work well.

    Fears of a hydrogen explosion at the vessel housing building are growing as the water level of the reactor is falling. A reaction with the steam and exposed fuel rods generates a large amount of hydrogen.

    Hydrogen blasts have occurred at two other reactors at the plant.

    The government's top spokesperson Yukio Edano said the power company is preparing to pour seawater into the container.
    But not likely to die free

  2. #482
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    red et al:

    this post http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showt...02#post4018002 which is the latest repost of the general design of fukushima wholly supports the hydrogen explosion explanation, as the top of the enclosure is a thin-skin and the panels would have blown out/up etc. You can see in your pic posts the lattice work of frame members.

  3. #483
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    This excerpt from Japan times seems less alarmist, EXCEPT I THOUGHT THE SEAWATER WOULD BE FED FROM THE SEA RATHER THAN A SEAWATER TANK THAT COULD AND DID RUN OUT.
    Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano gave assurances that the No. 3 reactor's containment vessel survived the explosion, just like the one at the No. 1 reactor, which blew up its housing on Saturday.

    Tokyo Electric Power Co., struggling to cool down all three reactors, said the water level in the No. 2 reactor is still above the fuel rods, but officials are scrambling to prevent a meltdown.

    The latest hydrogen explosion came as the government — confronted by the massive rescue and body retrieval operation all along the Tohoku region coast, and the threat of massive power outages in the Kanto region — scrambled to prevent a nuclear meltdown that could be triggered by overheating fuel rods.

    Like Saturday's explosion, Monday's 11:01 a.m. blast at the No. 3 reactor spewed smoke from the building and left only sections of the internal frame visible.

    The No. 3 reactor's fuel rods heated up, reacted with water and caused the release of hydrogen gas, which accumulated and mixed with oxygen to trigger the blast.

    Tepco officials had considered removing all the wall panels to reduce the pressure inside but felt such a move would be too dangerous.

    Tepco has been pumping seawater into the three reactors in a desperate bid to cool them down. But the utility had to temporarily suspend the operation after its seawater storage tank ran dry, apparently resulting in the fuel rods heating up.

    The seawater injection stopped at around 1 a.m. due to the water tank shortage but resumed for the No. 3 reactor at 3:20 a.m., according to the nuclear safety agency.

    The halt of coolant water injections apparently caused pressure in the reactor container to rise. It also caused radiation at the plant to climb as well, the agency said.

    Tepco at one point planned to release radioactive steam from the No. 3 reactor container to depressurize it and ordered workers to vacate the site. But as the pressure later receded, workers resumed operations at the site, according to the agency.

    The government had warned that this kind of blast was likely to occur.

    Because of the explosion, the government told about 500 residents within a 20-km radius of the plant who were in the process of evacuating to get back indoors for the time being.

    "According to the data we have gathered, the reactor container remains sound," Edano told a hastily arranged news conference, adding that radiation levels measured at several locations have not shown a massive leak.

    For now, the agency has ruled out widening the evacuation zone.

    On Monday, radiation on the plant's premises rose over the benchmark limit of 500 microsieverts per hour at two locations, hitting 751 microsieverts at the first location at 2:20 a.m. and 650 at the second at 2:40 a.m., according to the report.

    The hourly amounts are more than half the 1,000 microsieverts people would normally be exposed to in a year.

    The maximum level detected so far around the plant was 1,557.5 microsieverts Sunday.

    Edano said pressure in the No. 1 reactor container has been stable and seawater injections will resume later.
    The same Cross at which I find forgiveness for MY sins I must ALSO look to for JUSTICE for crimes committed AGAINST ME and also against other innocent people. It is where you look to and find PEACE about all the evil and injustice in this world.

  4. #484
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    Using seawater is a very desperate last minute gambit. It means all other cooling options have failed. It is essentially scuttling the reactor.

    For the Japanese to even discuss the possibility of doing that, means the reactor is in serious trouble.
    "The most intriguing point for the historian is that where history and legend meet."

    "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who think they are free."

    Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

  5. #485
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    8:14pm Reuters - Nuclear fuel rods now fully exposed at Reactor No.2 at the Fukushima nuclear plant.

    http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/asia...ch-13-liveblog
    ---------

    Besides a hydrogen explosion at Unit #2, the real possibility of significant core damage now exists.

    This incident is making TMI look like a walk in the park.
    "The most intriguing point for the historian is that where history and legend meet."

    "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who think they are free."

    Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

  6. #486
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    They JUST NOW AS I POST Announced that the rods at #2 reactor WERE FULLY EXPOSED but they have managed to get water back in up to 2 meters from THE BOTTOM.

    coolant device failed. EMERGENCY SITUATION DECLARED.

    AT 516 TOPS OF RODS EXPOSED
    6:15 STEAM COOLING DOWN
    Suppression chamber SR VALVE OPENED TO LOWER PRESSURE
    PUTTING SEA WATER INTO UNIT
    PRESSURE WENT HIGH
    805PM INJECTING SEA WATER
    NEWS CONFERENCE COMING
    HALF OF RODS EXPOSED ON REACTOR #2

    REACTOR #`1 FUEL RODS NOW EXPOSED TO 1.7 METERS

    english version of japan tv now ending for the day....will continue in english they say
    The same Cross at which I find forgiveness for MY sins I must ALSO look to for JUSTICE for crimes committed AGAINST ME and also against other innocent people. It is where you look to and find PEACE about all the evil and injustice in this world.

  7. #487
    Any more word on this statement:
    We believe that there is a low possibility that a massive amount of radiation has been leaked
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Baron View Post
    0351: Full quotes from Yukio Edano on the explosion:

    "We believe that there is a low possibility that a massive amount of radiation has been leaked. But it is similar to the time when the hydrogen explosion took place in number 1 reactor (which exploded on Saturday).

    In the case of number 3 reactor, we can see higher level of radiation. We are now collecting information for the concentration of the radiation and the dose."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698
    Matthew 6:12 - And forgive us our sins, as we have forgiven those who sin against us. 1Thessalonians 4-16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

  8. #488
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    Yikers!

    If they have multiple cores with rods exposed, and they dont get this under control, at some point the local rad levels will get too high for even workers to be around! This is nuts.

  9. #489
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    FUK 3 facing likely meltdown.

    http://english.kyodonews.jp/

  10. #490
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    (All times are local in Japan GMT+9)

    Timestamp:
    10:00pm A quick roundup of what's been going on in the past few hours.

    - Fukushima has been hit by another explosion. Saturday's blast was at No.1 reactor - this morning's was at No.3 reactor. It injured 11 people.

    - Coolant at Fukushima's No.2 reactor has run out, meaning its fuel rods have become fully exposed, causing temperatures to rise swiftly, and pressure inside the reactor core to mount rapidly.

    - US warships brought in to aid the relief effort have reportedly been moved away from the coast after detecting elevated radiation levels.

    - France has reportedly asked its citizens to leave Japan.

    - Japanese officials appeal for calm, say any other explosions or meltdowns are unlikely. "The figures do not indicate a high level of radiation," says Japan's cabinet secretary.

    http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/asia...apan-live-blog
    "The most intriguing point for the historian is that where history and legend meet."

    "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who think they are free."

    Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

  11. #491
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    This is the plant that is now facing meltdown. Plutonium.


    MOX fuel loaded into Tokyo Electric's old Fukushima reactor
    Sunday 22nd August, 05:36 AM JST

    FUKUSHIMA —
    Tokyo Electric Power Co loaded plutonium-uranium mixed oxide fuel Saturday into a reactor at its nuclear power plant in Fukushima Prefecture in preparation for the largest Japanese utility’s first plutonium-thermal power generation.

    The No. 3 reactor at the Fukushima No. 1 plant would be the third in Japan to be used for the so-called pluthermal generation, but the only one among the three to have been subjected to antiaging treatment with 34 years since its launch. Pluthermal output has already begun at the No. 3 reactor of Kyushu Electric Power Co’s Genkai plant in Saga Prefecture and the No. 3 reactor of Shikoku Electric Power Co’s Ikata plant in Ehime Prefecture.

  12. #492
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    aintfunny, could you give a link to the infor posted below? Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by ainitfunny View Post
    They JUST NOW AS I POST Announced that the rods at #2 reactor WERE FULLY EXPOSED but they have managed to get water back in up to 2 meters from THE BOTTOM.

    coolant device failed. EMERGENCY SITUATION DECLARED.

    AT 516 TOPS OF RODS EXPOSED
    6:15 STEAM COOLING DOWN
    Suppression chamber SR VALVE OPENED TO LOWER PRESSURE
    PUTTING SEA WATER INTO UNIT
    PRESSURE WENT HIGH
    805PM INJECTING SEA WATER
    NEWS CONFERENCE COMING
    HALF OF RODS EXPOSED ON REACTOR #2

    REACTOR #`1 FUEL RODS NOW EXPOSED TO 1.7 METERS

    english version of japan tv now ending for the day....will continue in english they say
    Offer me solutions, offer me alternatives and I decline....

  13. #493
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    So, those w/ knowledge about these things....if the plutonium plant melts down...what are the odds it would melt through the cement under it to hit water and explode...also, how long would that take...and, what could we expect in US?

    Theoretically, could a large portion on Japan be uninhabitable if these things continue?

    I know there's a lot of variables right now. Too much conflicting info from "experts". Trying to figure out what is disinfo...

  14. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodia View Post
    aintfunny, could you give a link to the infor posted below? Thanks.
    I was typing notes as I listened to the news broadcast on live Japan tv (english version)news. That is why it is so broken.

    NHK NEWS LINK: http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/
    Open a separate tab for that link and you can listen while you read forum or surf the net, so you don't miss out on news AS IT IS RELEASED.

    Link to the live news broadcast just went down while I was typing this.
    The web page and news articles are still there though. Hope nothing bad happened.

    I just read on the ticker that ANOTHER BLAST AT THE #3 REACTOR, 11 PEOPLE INJURED.
    (TICKER)lectric Power Company is battling to prevent another explosion at the No. 2 reactor of its quake-hit Fukushima No.1 plant after the level of coolant water dropped. The utility firm says fuel rods are exposed.              Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano says water injection has resumed at the No.2 reactor of the Fukushima No.1 plant, adding that all-out efforts are being made to keep cooling the reactor to ensure its stability.               What appears to be another hydrogen blast has occurred at the No.3 reactor of No.1 nuclear power plant in Fukushima. No damage to the reactor chamber has been reported, but 11 people have been injured.               Countries are bracing for radioactive leaks from nucle
    Japan TV is back on again.
    Last edited by ainitfunny; 03-14-2011 at 08:51 AM.
    The same Cross at which I find forgiveness for MY sins I must ALSO look to for JUSTICE for crimes committed AGAINST ME and also against other innocent people. It is where you look to and find PEACE about all the evil and injustice in this world.

  15. #495
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    As I was saying on another thread they had enough time to shut them down, the reports sate they were cooling them until the next one got it's cooling system clogged and no it does not take weeks to shut them down and have it cooled off to the point were its cannot produce enough heat to make steam, but just one day is all it takes.

  16. #496
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    OK, thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by ainitfunny View Post
    I was typing notes as I listened to the news broadcast on live Japan tv (english version)news. That is why it is so broken.
    Offer me solutions, offer me alternatives and I decline....

  17. #497
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    Will someone please debunk this...I find it interesting it was 1 page ago and no one has touched it.


    Reactor 1 and 3 exploded. Reactor 3 was burning MOX fuel which is a VERY radioactive fuel when used.

    MOX is bad because it will burn hotter then regular uranium. This was warned to be a bad fuel IF the plant were to come close to meltdown. Basically a MOX burning plant will meltdown sooner, easier. It will also push much more radiation into the air. More on that in a minute...

    A hydrogen explosion has been confirmed at reactor #3, the MOX burning reactor. The hydrogen was created when the fuel rods are above water and interact with steam. If the hydrogen explodes then the rods that made the hydrogen are also exposed to the atmosphere. The shields are blown wide open now.

    First off, this means a lot of radiation is being ejected from the plant and will poison many in the direct vicinity and those down winds. And if this isn't bad enough, it gets worse, WAY WORSE!!!

    MOX naturally burns hotter. When the meltdown fuel rods receive fresh oxygen it begins to burn even hotter. And when I say burn, I mean the fission process. Normal Uranium Fuel will begin the "China Syndrome" when mixed with fresh oxygen.

    The China Syndrome is when the core and everything around it melts into a super hot blob. The ground melts away and the blob sinks into the Earth. It would continue all the way to the core but it won't. It will hit a water table eventually. And when it does.......KABOOOOOMMMMM!!!!!!!!

    The instant steam bomb mixed with used and unused MOX fuel will travel up the carved tube to the surface. Nothing man made will hold this back. It will eject this super heated steam far into the atmosphere where the steam will flash freeze and form radioactive clouds really high up. These clouds will be caught up by the Jet Stream. Which happens to be directly over head of the reactor.

    So, this is it people. Earth is ****ed! Let's pray to God someone finds a way to prevent the China Syndrome or else........................all that radiation will soon be in the upper atmosphere to circle the Earth in days.
    May God be with us in the coming days

  18. #498
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    Hopefully the primary containment vessel is robust enough to survive a meltdown.

    The future of GE depends on it.

    A "China Syndrome" is a little over the top.
    "The most intriguing point for the historian is that where history and legend meet."

    "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who think they are free."

    Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

  19. #499
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    I don't know how secure the "containment" vessel is because as one scientist pointed out IT IS LEAKING OUT the cooling WATER they put in. Cant be too secure if that is happening.
    The same Cross at which I find forgiveness for MY sins I must ALSO look to for JUSTICE for crimes committed AGAINST ME and also against other innocent people. It is where you look to and find PEACE about all the evil and injustice in this world.

  20. #500
    We're at the stage now where human error is the greatest danger... engineers have to be incredibly overworked at this point.
    Throughout the world
    Everywhere we are all brothers
    Why then do the winds and waves rage so turbulently?

  21. #501
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    I think they should have VERY good rewards for the families of those MEDAL OF HONOR LEVEL brave men who have probably given their lives to stay at that plant and try to mitigate the disaster. They well be walking dead men from the radiation exposure they will have suffered under the danger they face to try to save the people of Japan and indeed the world from much more damaging radiation danger.

    My hat is off to them and I pray God be with them to help them succeed. THEY ARE TRUE HEROS IN THE MOST NARROW SENSE OF THE WORD.
    Last edited by ainitfunny; 03-14-2011 at 09:26 AM.
    The same Cross at which I find forgiveness for MY sins I must ALSO look to for JUSTICE for crimes committed AGAINST ME and also against other innocent people. It is where you look to and find PEACE about all the evil and injustice in this world.

  22. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by rafter View Post
    Will someone please debunk this...I find it interesting it was 1 page ago and no one has touched it.
    Back at it again. I will work back from most recent.

    This WILL be debunked because it is BS. May take a while for the REAL experts to do so but they will. Keep in mind, that only 5% of the fissle part of the fuel is Plutonium and in turn only a few % of the total fuel quantity is fissle. If the uranium was 4% U235, for example, then 5% x 4% = .2% of total fuel is plutonium oxide. Ain't much!! In addition, ALL reactors create some plutonium in operation as they irradiate the U238 (which is vast majority of the Uranium in the core). The plutonium created during operation is mostly fissioned and acts as part of
    the fuel source. PU239 is mixed in the fuel to get rid of weapons grade material and because (due to being surplus) it is cheaper than enrichment of natural uranium. As for how it acts during meltdown - no difference than rest of the fuel. Article is PURE bull pucky.

    China Syndrome was a neat movie but it too was pure bull pucky. Not only is that type of a meltdown supposedly impossible but other details in the movie were flat out wrong.

  23. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMouse View Post
    Back at it again. I will work back from most recent.

    This WILL be debunked because it is BS. May take a while for the REAL experts to do so but they will. Keep in mind, that only 5% of the fissle part of the fuel is Plutonium and in turn only a few % of the total fuel quantity is fissle. If the uranium was 4% U235, for example, then 5% x 4% = .2% of total fuel is plutonium oxide. Ain't much!! In addition, ALL reactors create some plutonium in operation as they irradiate the U238 (which is vast majority of the Uranium in the core). The plutonium created during operation is mostly fissioned and acts as part ofthe fuel source. PU239 is mixed in the fuel to get rid of weapons grade material and because (due to being surplus) it is cheaper than enrichment of natural uranium. As for how it acts during meltdown - no difference than rest of the fuel. Article is PURE bull pucky.

    China Syndrome was a neat movie but it too was pure bull pucky. Not only is that type of a meltdown supposedly impossible but a other details in the movie were flat out wrong.
    Do you have links to back this up?

  24. #504
    Fukushima No. 2 reactor's fuel rods fully exposed, melting feared

    TOKYO, March 14, Kyodo

    Fuel rods at the quake-hit Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant's No. 2 reactor were fully exposed at one point after its cooling functions failed, the plant operator said Monday, indicating the critical situation of the reactor's core beginning to melt due to overheating.

    The rods were exposed as a fire pump to pour seawater into the reactor to cool it down ran out of fuel, Tokyo Electric Power Co. said. The firm had reported the loss of cooling functions as an emergency to the government.

    TEPCO said water levels later recovered to cover 30 centimeters in the lower parts of the fuel rods.

    The seawater injection operation started at 4:34 p.m., but water levels in the No. 2 reactor have since fallen sharply with only one out of five fire pumps working. The other four were feared to have been damaged by a blast that occurred in the morning at the nearby No. 3 reactor.

    The utility firm said a hydrogen explosion at the nearby No. 3 reactor that occurred Monday morning may have caused a glitch in the cooling system of the No. 2 reactor.

    Similar cooling down efforts have been taken at the plant's No. 1 and No. 3 reactors and explosions occurred at both reactors in the process, blowing away the roofs and walls of the buildings that house the reactors.

    It is feared that the No. 2 reactor will follow the same path. To prevent a possible hydrogen explosion at the No. 2 reactor, TEPCO said it will look into opening a hole in the wall of the building that houses the reactor to release hydrogen.

    The company has also begun work to depressurize the containment vessel of the No. 2 reactor by releasing radioactive steam, the government's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said. Such a step is necessary to prevent the vessel from sustaining damage and losing its critical containment function.

    With only one fire pump working, TEPCO is placing priority on injecting water into the No. 2 reactor, although both the No. 1 and No. 3 reactors still need coolant water injections, according to the agency.

    The blast earlier in the day injured 11 people but the reactor's containment vessel was not damaged, with the government dismissing the possibility of a large amount of radioactive material being dispersed, as radiation levels did not jump after the explosion.

    TEPCO said seven workers at the site and four members of the Self-Defense Forces were injured. Of the 11, two were found to have been exposed to radiation and are receiving treatment.

    Since the magnitude 9.0 quake hit northeastern Japan last Friday, some reactors at the Fukushima No. 1 plant have lost their cooling functions, leading to brief rises in radiation levels.

    As a result, the cores of the No. 1 and No. 3 reactors have partially melted.

    The government ordered residents within a 20-kilometer radius of the plant to evacuate Saturday in the wake of the initial blast at the plant's No. 1 reactor. A total of 483 people are still attempting to leave the area, according to the nuclear agency.

    The agency ruled out the possibility of broadening the area subject to the evacuation order for now.

    http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/77870.html

  25. #505
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    Thank you, MickyMouse for all the tech info you add! I worked in maintenance in nukes for years but I was never an HP or in Ops so I don't have the tech background and positive concrete evidence to stick my neck out and call BS on a LOT of the what the MSM is stirring up.

    I DO know for a fact that if a guy farted in the parking lot the MSM would report it as "a potentially dangerous release of contaminated air from a nuke site..."

  26. #506
    Quote Originally Posted by amazon View Post
    So, those w/ knowledge about these things....if the plutonium plant melts down...what are the odds it would melt through the cement under it to hit water and explode...also, how long would that take...and, what could we expect in US?

    Theoretically, could a large portion on Japan be uninhabitable if these things continue?

    I know there's a lot of variables right now. Too much conflicting info from "experts". Trying to figure out what is disinfo...
    All three reactors have ALREADY had fuel rod damage, probably melt-down if you prefer that term.
    None, so far have melted through the reactor vessel (pressure cooker tank).

    If the #3 plant that has MOS fuel "melts down" it will be just like the other two. Nothing special EXCEPT the scary word "plutonium" and all the negative connotations the green weenie antis can attach to it.

    The quake and tsunami rendered FAR more of Japan unihabitable (underwater because of subsidence) and unfit for agriculture (seawater contamination) than all six of the reactors are capable of. Worst possible case, well beyond what CAN happen and 10 miles of coast might be contaminated but even that is WAY over the top.

    No matter WHAT happens to the reactors, the radiation effects in the US will be almost nothing. Still, we have been lied to before and are probably being lied to now. I will keep my radiation monitoring instruments handy until this is all over!!

  27. #507
    What would the effect be on the reactor vessels themselves after suffering at least partial meltdowns over the course of days, coupled with stresses from the seismic activity, the hyrdrogen explosions in their vicinity, and the effects of being cooled (or at least partially so) with saltwater for days?

  28. #508
    12.05 Steam is being released at the number two reactor, reports say.

    12.16 Tepco says parts of the fuel rods have been damaged, according to Reuters.

    12.18 The operation at Fukushima No.1 plant to lower pressure of the containment vessel has been suspended due to high radiation levels at the site, Japan's NHK broadcaster reports.

    It says that pressure of the reactor container is rising as its cooling system became dysfunctional due to a blackout and power generator breakdown. This has raised concern about possible damage to the container.

    13.02 Things could be improving. TEPCO says water levels have risen, and the fuel rods are now only half-exposed at reactor no. 2.

    13.19 Fuel rods at the number two reactor were exposed for 2.5 hours, Kyodo news agency is reporting.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...uake-live.html

  29. #509
    MSLUCKY, I'm not going to quote that whole thing, just comment on it.

    Fully exposed fuel rods are very bad. Destruction of the core is likely result - within a very short time.

    Covering 30 cm of a multiple meter high fuel assemby is almost a joke (nothing is funny about this disaster however!!). Apparently some water remained at the bottom of the reactor vessel or I would have been concerned about the result of pumping water into a dry core.

    A hydrogen explosion at reactor #2 will happen, late this evening or early morning Japan time, IMHO. Unless they vent that upper building, it will go. Not even sure knocking a hole in it will delay the inevitable. Talk about a suicide mission if any hydrogen has already accumulated...........

    All three reactors have now had massive fuel damage. Hopefully they can keep enough boric acid in them to control stuff - we will see.

    Once the fuel overheats, the oxidation of the ziconium cladding actually produces more heat than the decay heat of fission fragments does. They REALLY need to get adequate water into those reactor vessels.

    It appears to me that a similar weakness and failure has occured at each of the three reactors, maybe more of them. It will be interesting in the months ahead to find out what. In the end, loss of power will not be the real problem, IMHO.

    As to mslucky's post 508;

    12.05 Steam is being released at the number two reactor, reports say.
    Stating the obvious!! Only way to get water IN is let some steam OUT.

    12.16 Tepco says parts of the fuel rods have been damaged, according to Reuters.
    Yep, in all three reactors some time back. That is the source of the hydrogen!

    12.18 The operation at Fukushima No.1 plant to lower pressure of the containment vessel has been suspended due to high radiation levels at the site, Japan's NHK broadcaster reports.
    Interesting. Means they have stopped manual venting to keep pressure below the automatic relief valves set at about 1100 PSI. When pressure gets to relief setting it WILL vent steam and there is no way to stop that. They are buying time to figure out what to do. Remember, they can not add water with their jury rig stuff without venting steam. They are in deep doo doo!!

    It says that pressure of the reactor container is rising as its cooling system became dysfunctional due to a blackout and power generator breakdown. This has raised concern about possible damage to the container.
    Now THAT is scary!! Do they mean all 11 relief valves are now not operational or that the steam generation capacity is exceeding the valve capacity? Or is this preparing us for the steam cloud sure to result when the fuel mass melts through the bottom of the reactor vessel? Either some hack got it wrong or things are about to ratchet up a bunch in severity.

    13.02 Things could be improving. TEPCO says water levels have risen, and the fuel rods are now only half-exposed at reactor no. 2.
    Kinda like stopping the bleeding of your severed leg is an improvement but ignoring the bleeding of your severed arm!! Yea, they are getting some water back in #2 but massive fuel damage occurred in that 2.5 hr dry period. (damage starts in about 45 min) This mess is spiraling out of control.

    13.19 Fuel rods at the number two reactor were exposed for 2.5 hours, Kyodo news agency is reporting.
    As above - MASSIVE fuel damage. Much of the core is now a debris pile in the bottom of the reactor vessel. Hope they got lots of boric acid in there!!
    Last edited by MickeyMouse; 03-14-2011 at 09:57 AM.

  30. #510
    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyMouse View Post
    MSLUCKY, I'm not going to quote that whole thing, just comment on it.

    Fully exposed fuel rods are very bad. Destruction of the core is likely result - within a very short time.

    Covering 30 cm of a multiple meter high fuel assemby is almost a joke (nothing is funny about this disaster however!!). Apparently some water remained at the bottom of the reactor vessel or I would have been concerned about the result of pumping water into a dry core.

    A hydrogen explosion at reactor #2 will happen, late this evening or early morning Japan time, IMHO. Unless they vent that upper building, it will go. Not even sure knocking a hole in it will delay the inevitable. Talk about a suicide mission if any hydrogen has already accumulated...........

    All three reactors have now had massive fuel damage. Hopefully they can keep enough boric acid in them to control stuff - we will see.

    Once the fuel overheats, the oxidation of the ziconium cladding actually produces more heat than the decay heat of fission fragments does. They REALLY need to get adequate water into those reactor vessels.

    It appears to me that a similar weakness and failure has occured at each of the three reactors, maybe more of them. It will be interesting in the months ahead to find out what. In the end, loss of power will not be the real problem, IMHO.
    I nominate that for the understatement of the year!
    Obama has tried to play Lincoln, Reagan, JFK and FDR-- but in the end he can only play himself, a shallow, manipulative and egotistical amateur who is in over his head, and trying to drag the country down with him.
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  31. #511
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    Remember folks, once the rods are exposed they melt down and fall back into the water, this creates steam and hydrogen which needs to go SOMEWHERE. Unfortunately just the act of opening the vent causes sparks which caused the explosion, they should have vented sooner. The whole plant is a total loss now and they just need to dump seawater and boric acid in until it shuts down.

    This problem will get resolved by the end of the week, the BIG problem is that we are screwed because whatever nuke plants that were going to be built in the US are now set back another 10 years.

  32. #512
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    Perhaps jon, but UNlike Japan, there are many areas in the US that are not prone to massive EQs. Japan is basically "EQ Central" for the Pacific Rim. Building nukes there is insane.

  33. #513
    All three troubled reactors are junk. Doubt those undamaged (if any) will EVER restart. Nuke power in the US and maybe Japan may never recover.


    Folks I gotta go to an appointment - will resume when I get back!!

  34. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Olson View Post
    Perhaps jon, but UNlike Japan, there are many areas in the US that are not prone to massive EQs. Japan is basically "EQ Central" for the Pacific Rim. Building nukes there is insane.
    With the history tsunamis there, I was suprised to see so many so close to the coast.
    Offer me solutions, offer me alternatives and I decline....

  35. #515
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Olson View Post
    Perhaps jon, but UNlike Japan, there are many areas in the US that are not prone to massive EQs. Japan is basically "EQ Central" for the Pacific Rim. Building nukes there is insane.
    Building a coal burning plant in every city is not an option.
    Throughout the world
    Everywhere we are all brothers
    Why then do the winds and waves rage so turbulently?

  36. #516
    Quote Originally Posted by Exodia View Post
    With the history tsunamis there, I was suprised to see so many so close to the coast.
    You need water to do the cooling and steam generation, most nuke plants in the world are built near rivers or lakes. Most of the developed land in Japan is along the coast as the interior is VERY mountainous.
    Throughout the world
    Everywhere we are all brothers
    Why then do the winds and waves rage so turbulently?

  37. #517
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    Well this didn't take long

    http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/13/news...ex.htm?iid=MPM

    Japan's nuclear crisis turns spotlight on U.S. plants

    By Steve Hargreaves, senior writerMarch 14, 2011: 10:40 AM ET


    NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- The safety of America's nuclear reactors is being questioned as Japanese engineers scramble to avert a total meltdown at two of that country's quake-stricken power plants.

    Like in Japan, some of the 104 nuclear reactors in the United States are situated along the ocean -- some in earthquake-prone areas.



    The reactors are designed to withstand earthquakes, sabotage and other disasters. But the difficulty the Japanese are facing in controlling their plants is raising red flags about the safety of U.S. facilities.

    "The tragic events now unfolding in Japan could very easily occur in the United States," Rep. Ed Markey, a Massachusetts Democrat who sits on the House committee overseeing nuclear power, said in a statement.
    Disaster hits nation's economy

    Markey has recommended several measures that he believes should be taken by the Obama administration and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

    These steps include stronger safety systems in plants located near fault lines, emergency response drills that model instances when more than one disaster unfolds simultaneously, and the distribution of radiation-blocking potassium iodide pills to everyone living within 20 miles of a reactor. (Such pills are now disbursed to people within 10 miles of a reactor.)

    The United States has 104 non-military nuclear reactors operating at 65 plants across the country. In addition, there are dozens of reactors, weapons labs and other nuclear facilities associated with national defense.

    Most of the civilian plants are located near major population centers. They currently supply about 20% of the nation's power.

    There hasn't been a new nuclear plant commissioned since the Three Mile Island meltdown in Pennsylvania in 1979, although dozens that were under construction at the time have come on line.

    More recently, increased electricity use, a desire to generate homegrown energy and concern over global warming have made carbon-free nuclear power more attractive.

    The government has set aside $18 billion for new nuclear plants, and President Obama wants to spend an additional $36 billion.

    Federal regulators are reviewing 20 applications to build new nuclear plants, and several existing facilities have applied to extend their operating licenses. Some were calling it a nuclear industry renaissance.

    The events in Japan have obviously made the political climate for building more nuclear plants in the U.S. more difficult.


    "The debate has been altered -- at least in the near term," Christine Tezak, an energy and environmental policy analyst at asset management firm Robert W. Baird & Co., wrote in a research note Monday.

    Concerns over safety -- as well as cost -- continue to dog the nuclear industry.

    In the United States, perhaps the most vulnerable plants are the two in California built on the Pacific coast near the San Andreas fault.

    Those plants were built to withstand a magnitude 7.5 earthquake, said Robert Alvarez, a nuclear expert at the Institute for Policy studies and a former senior official at the U.S. Department of Energy.

    The San Francisco quake of 1906 measured 8.3, said Alvarez, while Friday's Japanese quake was a massive 8.9. An 8.9 quake is 125 times as powerful as 7.5 quake, according to the united States Geological Survey.

    "I don't think we should renew those operating licenses," he said.

    Alvarez also said the problems at the Japanese facilities highlight the catastrophic outcome of the failure of power, pumps and other infrastructure. Such system malfunctions could happen because of an earthquake or a massive terrorist attack, such as one involving airliners.

    Spokesmen for the utilities that own the California plants, Pacific Gas & Electric (PCG, Fortune 500) and Southern California Edison, said Sunday the plants are designed to meet the maximum quake projected for their immediate vicinity, which is not thought to exceed a magnitude of 6.5.

    In addition, tests have shown that the country's nuclear plants could withstand an impact from an airliner, said Steve Kerekes, a spokesman for industry group the Nuclear Energy Institute.

    Responding to Congressman Markey's recommendations, Kerekes said that safety systems at U.S. plants are already robust. He said that disaster planning could always be improved upon, but that studies show there's no need to distribute iodide pills beyond the current 10 mile radius.

    A spokesman for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission said U.S. plants are safe. "NRC's rigorous safety regulations ensure that U.S. nuclear facilities are designed to withstand tsunamis, earthquakes and other hazards," he said. To top of page

  38. #518
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    Japan's Nuclear Emergency: Third Fukushima Reactor Failing
    After Two Explosions at Plant, Third Reactor's Fuel Rods Exposed

    Post a Comment By DAVID MUIR and JESSICA HOPPER
    March 14, 2011
    PrintRSSFont Size: Share:EmailTwitterFacebookMoreFarkTechnoratiGoogle LiveMy SpaceNewsvineRedditDeliciousMixxYahooA series of nuclear reactors continue to deteriorate in the wake of Japan's devastating earthquake and tsunami, raising worries of a nuclear meltdown.


    More Video
    Watch: After the Quake: Nuclear Fallout?
    Watch: Japan Earthquake: A Look at Sendai
    Watch: Japan's No Man's LandAfter two hydrogen explosions in three days at the Fukushima Daiichi plant, a third reactor has lost its ability to cool. Officials are increasingly concerned about unit 2 at the plant.

    The fuel rods on unit 2 were fully exposed for a period of time, a dangerous development in the effort to stop the reactor from melting down. Workers are frantically pouring sea water over the rods, officials from the Tokyo Electric Power Company said.

    "They continue to work hard to raise the water level to cover the fuel. Let's pray again," Tatsujiro Suzuki, Vice Chairman of Japan's Atomic Energy Commission, posted on Facebook today.

    The exposure of the fuel rods means that the temperature in the reactor is likely to rise, which will allow it to make steam. The steam could lead to the creation of hydrogen and cause another explosion, experts said.

    Knowing how long the fuel rods have been exposed is key to understanding if there is a real chance of a meltdown, Dr. Peter Hosemann, a nuclear energy expert and professor at the University of California at Berkeley, said.

    "Having too much of the fuel rods exposed for too long of a time can lead to the core melt. Again, if a core melt happens the reactor pressure vessel and the containment are designed to contain it," Hosemann said.

    While unit 1, the first reactor to explode at the plant, appears to be stable, unit 3, which exploded early Monday morning in Japan, reportedly has a leak in its bottom.

    "We've never encountered this type of situation in history before," Joe Cirincione, a nuclear policy expert, said. "We are beyond a reactor crisis at this point, this is a nuclear system crisis. The entire northern part of the Japanese nuclear power system has been delivered a body blow."

    The leak is making it difficult to keep the core of the reactor covered with sea water, Dr. Michio Kaku, a physicist, said.

    "The situation is getting worse by the hour. We haven't hit bottom yet... We now have reports that unit 3 suffered perhaps a 90 percent uncovering of the core -- this is unprecedented since Chernobyl," Kaku said.

    Japanese officials insist that things are under control at the nuclear plant and that radiation levels are safe.

    "They haven't stabilized the sea water yet. Remember, they're hanging in there right there with the fingernails. This is how close we are to a full-scale meltdown. So it's stable in the sense that you're stable when you're hanging by your fingernails," Kaku said.

    A trip to Japan's emergency command center revealed officials re-watching the explosion at the Fukushima plant. A gray plume of smoke could be seen rising from unit 3 on the command center's television.

    The explosion of unit 3 injured 11 workers on Monday and could be felt as far as 25 miles away.

    The Japanese government continues to test the nearly 180,000 people evacuated from around the Fukushima plant for exposure to radiation.

    In the town of Koriyama, lines of families waited to be tested today.

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=13131123

    1Pe 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore of sound mind, and be sober unto prayer

    Mat 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven.

  39. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Olson View Post
    Perhaps jon, but UNlike Japan, there are many areas in the US that are not prone to massive EQs. Japan is basically "EQ Central" for the Pacific Rim. Building nukes there is insane.
    Japan has little to no natural resources like coal,oil or gas. Considering Japan is the only country that has had a nuke bomb dropped on it and they are doing this pretty much tells you that it is/was the best option.

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    FLASH: Fuel rods fully exposed again at Fukushima nuclear power plant: TEPCO (09:59 CST)

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