With due respect to the ambassador, he would be the last one to know.. especially right now. I'm sure political wonks are on the bottom of the list of people to update for the engineers.Originally Posted by Archetype
Throughout the world
Everywhere we are all brothers
Why then do the winds and waves rage so turbulently?
All times are local in Japan GMT+9)
Timestamp:
7:15am More on the danger posed by that second developing problem at the Fukushima nuclear power plant. A Tokyo Electric Power Co spokesman said:
All the functions to keep cooling water levels in No.3 reactor have failed at the Fukushima No.1 plant.
As of 5:30am, water injection stopped and inside pressure is rising slightly.
An emergency report on the plant's condition has been filed with the government, he added.
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/afri...ch-13-liveblog
"The most intriguing point for the historian is that where history and legend meet."
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who think they are free."
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
"meltdown" is the only term they know... fuel rod casing breach = meltdown, control rod stuck = meltdown, containment breach = meltdown.
Throughout the world
Everywhere we are all brothers
Why then do the winds and waves rage so turbulently?
No one is mentioning, but I keep thinking about the seawater being pumped in. We know that flooding the reactor is not enough because the water will heat up and turn to steam. So the water has to be circulated and cooled via some kind of heat exchanger. I am assuming that the need to keep pouring water into the reactor means that either is not happening at all- or else it is not happening at a fast enough rate. So what is the possibly that there is either a continuous release of radioactive steam. Or maybe they just keep dumping in more water to cool the old water. If they did that then the contaminated water would have to be released back into the ocean. I would assume that the contaminate pool is full by now.
It is possible that they have enough cooling now by some means. But if they do not then they must be massively contaminating the environment. Either the air or the Ocean. Would they be desperate enough to return radioactive water to the Ocean?
But not likely to die free
Yeah, I suspect they are. "Massive" contamination is a relative thing in a situation like this. A full-up meltdown and a breach of the containment could make contaminated water look like a bleach spill in your kitchen...
alertsusa.com:
Fukushima reactors 1, 3, and 6 have lost cooling capabilities. Developing...
Wasn't sure which of the 2 nuke threads to post this on:
* 11:15PM GMT Mar 12, 2011
* Update
15 near Fukushima nuclear plant exposed to radiation - Kyodo News
Story data:
* spotted by editor
So when's the Revolution? God or Money? Choose.
Good to know that some Phd has tested that, but I had some KI tablets that were about 10 years beyond their date and they were in really bad shape, as in they were dissolving, leaving a very iodine smelly ooz at the bottom of the bottle. I would not have trusted them. Iodine bio water filters do indeed go bad, but maybe KI is more stable. The Phd did say that old KI may need help dissolving.
Dan
Mathew 24:6 "See to it you are not alarmed." (Though He also said to "keep watch" and build your house "on the Rock".)
Here's an interesting observation on the current CNN coverage with Wolf Blitzer. When they were cutting away to commercials, the visuals were the burning petroleum plant (many bright flames) and another burning industrial building from right after the earthquake with Blitzer mentioning the "meltdown" more then once. Talk about milking your segment to get your ratings up!
If you close your eyes you can observe the blue prints,
the man made DNA that spirals breathlessly out of control.
As synapse collapse, bridges snap, into a restless Nutopia.
Pigface- "Nutopia"
First of all I would like to point out that the venting would produce immediate area and ground wind distributed area radioactivity. If there were a mushroom cloud of an explosion, then radioactive dust would be taken into the upper atmosphere and carried by the upper prevailing winds, to fallout down wind. We are not in the later situation, fortunately, so IMO it wold be wasteful for people in the USA to start taking KI or KIO3. I think the critical question is, at what local radiation level should one start taking iodine supplements. Never mind waiting for the government to tell us, many of us have radiation detectors. Also, I am more used to radiation being described as measured in Rads or Rems (or milli rads or millirems). How does that translate from 106 mSv? And What is 840 kPa pressure in terms of psi?
That is what I figured. That would still be very bad.
But not likely to die free
shondi99 shondi99
RT @TheNewsBlotter: Kyodo: 6th reactor at #Fukushima nuke plant loses cooling functions #tsunami #eqjp
3 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Paceset9999 Pamela
RT @EMN: NHK World says #Fukushima -Daini Plant 1 pressure increases, emergency escalates. #NHK
4 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
RoserPera ROSER-GBS Networks
Japan's Fukushima nuclear plant faces new reactor problem | Reuters reut.rs/eisGG1 via @reuters http://ff.im/-zqjUa
5 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
setcounter Barbara
German govt believes there are indications that a meltdown might have started in #Fukushima http://is.gd/W7ATBe
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...72A0SS20110312
Quake-hit Japan nuclear plant faces fresh threat
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Japan quake evacuees scanned for radiation exposure
1:17pm EST
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Wreckages of cars and an airplane are seen at a devastated area after an earthquake and tsunami near Sendai airport in northern Japan, March 13, 2011.
Credit: Reuters/Jo Yong-Hak
Japan quake evacuees scanned for radiation exposure (01:00)
By Chris Meyers and Kim Kyung-hoon
FUKUSHIMA, Japan | Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:55pm EST
FUKUSHIMA, Japan (Reuters) - Japan battled to contain a radiation leak at an earthquake-crippled nuclear plant on Sunday, but faced a fresh threat with the failure of the cooling system in a second reactor.
Operator TEPCO said it was preparing to release some steam to relieve pressure in the No.3 reactor at the plant 240 km (150 miles) north of Tokyo -- which would release a small amount of radiation -- following an explosion and leak on Saturday in the facility's No. 1 reactor.
As strong aftershocks continued to shake Japan's main island the desperate search for survivors from Friday massive earthquake and tsunami continued, and the death toll was expected to rise.
Thousands spent another freezing night huddled over heaters in emergency shelters along the northeastern coast, a scene of devastation after the 8.9 magnitude quake sent a 10-meter (33-foot) wave surging through towns and cities.
Kyodo news agency said the number of dead or unaccounted for as a result of the quake and tsunami was expected to exceed 1,800. It also reported there had been no contact with around 10,000 people in one small town, more than half its population.
The government insisted radiation levels were low following Saturday's explosion, saying the blast had not affected the reactor core container, and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) said it had been told by Japan that levels "have been observed to lessen in recent hours."
But Japan's nuclear safety agency said the number of people exposed to radiation from the Fukushima Daiichi plant could reach 160. Workers in protective clothing were scanning people arriving at evacuation centers for radioactive exposure.
Around 140,000 people had been evacuated from areas near the plant and another nuclear facility nearby, while authorities prepared to distribute iodine to people in the vicinity to protect them from radioactive exposure.
"There is radiation leaking out, and since the possibility (of being exposed) is high, it's quite scary," said Masanori Ono, 17, standing in line on Saturday to be scanned for radiation at an evacuation center in Fukushima prefecture.
Before news of the problem with reactor No. 3, the nuclear safety agency said the plant accident was less serious than both the Three Mile Island accident in 1979 and the 1986 Chernobyl nuclear disaster.
An official at the agency said it has rated the incident a 4 according to the International Nuclear and Radiological Event Scale (INES). Three Mile Island was rated 5 while Chernobyl was rated 7 on the 1 to 7 scale, the official said.
<snip>
I bet these reactors would really show up on the weather satellites in the inferred mode.
There are 4-5 reactors either melting down or can possibly melt down...IF they would all melt down what are we talking here in the US as far as danger???
In layman's terms please....
May God be with us in the coming days
It's really impossible to say with certainty. What we know about intercontinental fallout is from foreign nuclear tests and Chernobyl. Multiple meltdowns and containment breaches would be something new under the sun; Chernobyl was a different kind of accident. This would be a whole new "learning experience"
I don't think we would die from radiation. It would be starvation.what are we talking here in the US as far as danger???
In layman's terms please....
"If the control of the economy is not in the hands of the majority of Americans then neither is political control."
Most of what we know is from the radiation travelling in the atmosphere. How are they protecting the water?
It depends on if there's an significant explosion or not. If there's a meltdown and no containment breach, not much happens, not even in Japan. If there's a meltdown and a non-explosive breach, the immediate area around the plant gets the brunt of the fallout. If there's an explosive breach of containment then it's wherever the wind carries the cloud.
Throughout the world
Everywhere we are all brothers
Why then do the winds and waves rage so turbulently?
The problem with Chernobyl was the graphite fire.. which caused tons of radioactive smoke for an extended period of time.
BWRs like Fukushima won't burn like that.
Throughout the world
Everywhere we are all brothers
Why then do the winds and waves rage so turbulently?
Hope that some of y'all can help me find info on this.
"BreakingNews
1. 15 near Fukushima nuclear plant exposed to radiation - Kyodo News about 1 hour ago via breakingnews.com "
We need to know several things. Is it hard radiation or fallout? If hard radiation, where were they exposed - in the plant or outside of it? And at what levels?
Kyodo News doesn't have an expanded story on this - just the bullet "news advisory". I haven't seen this anywhere else and could use some help finding more info on it.
IF these 15 were exposed to hard radiation, not just fallout, outside of the plant, then we have a totally different ball game.
"I think the most un-American thing you can say is, 'You can't say that.'” Garrison Keillor
"It's time to make your stand." - Mother Abigail
FWIW< I'd feel better if it was in the ocean, rather than the atmosphere. It wouldn't be good, just better. Water doesn't become radioactive itself, although it can carry radioactive particles. These would settle to some degree, and be dispersed greatly. Over the 1940s-1960s period, there were a great many barrels of radioactive waste dumped at sea, and numerous nuclear tests at sea. That's not a good thing, I know, but the contamination from this mess wouldn't match what's already in there. You're already eating fish from waters that have plutonium, uranium, + waste, lost nuclear weapons, and sunken nuclear submarines.
"KIMA Action News Washington health officals are monitoring radiation levels because of the nuclear plant concerns in Japan. No higher levels reported here.
Facebook - 37 minutes ago"
KIMA Action News WA Dept of Health: Monitoring air, but no elevated radiation after incident in Japan. Even major leak would be diluted before reaching us.
Facebook - 1 hour ago"
"KNDU-TV The Oregon Public Health Emergency Preparedness Program and the Radiation Protection Services are closely monitoring information on the radiation release ... - More »
Facebook - 14 minutes ago
"I think the most un-American thing you can say is, 'You can't say that.'” Garrison Keillor
"It's time to make your stand." - Mother Abigail
Today, 07:47 PM
Post #1338
Drudge is saying the 6th reactor has failed.
So when's the Revolution? God or Money? Choose.
So when's the Revolution? God or Money? Choose.
Good to know that some Phd has tested that, but I had some KI tablets that were about 10 years beyond their date and they were in really bad shape, as in they were dissolving, leaving a very iodine smelly ooz at the bottom of the bottle. I would not have trusted them. Iodine bio water filters do indeed go bad, but maybe KI is more stable. The Phd did say that old KI may need help dissolving.
They will do that if exposed to water vapor from the air. Did you open the bottle to look at them at some point in the past?
Last edited by Kent; 03-12-2011 at 08:01 PM.
Another reactor at Fukushima nuke plant loses cooling functions
TOKYO, March 13, Kyodo
Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Sunday another reactor of its quake-hit Fukushima nuclear power plants had lost its cooling functions, while at least 15 people at a nearby hospital were found to have been exposed to radioactivity.
The utility supplier notified the government early Sunday morning that the No. 3 reactor at the No. 1 Fukushima plant had lost the ability to cool the reactor core. The reactor is now in the process of releasing radioactive steam, according to top government spokesman Yukio Edano.
It was the sixth reactor overall at the Fukushima No. 1 and No. 2 plants to undergo cooling failure since the massive earthquake and ensuing tsunami struck Japan on Friday.
The disaster raised fears over radioactive leaks from the plants after cooling systems there were hampered, most seriously at the No. 1 reactor.
An explosion Saturday at the No. 1 plant blew away the roof and the walls of the building housing the No. 1 reactor's container.
The government and nuclear authorities said there was no damage to the steel container housing the troubled No. 1 reactor, noting that the blast occurred as vapor from the container turned into hydrogen and mixed with outside oxygen.
Tokyo Electric Power has begun new cooling operations to fill the reactor with sea water and pour in boric acid to prevent an occurrence of criticality. Chief Cabinet Secretary Edano said in a press conference Sunday morning that there had been no major changes in the results of monitoring radioactivity near the No. 1 reactor.
Following the explosion, the authorities expanded from 10 kilometers to 20 km the radius of the evacuation area for residents living in the vicinity of the Fukushima plants.
The Fukushima prefectural government said Saturday that three people had their clothes contaminated with radioactive substances while fleeing from the No. 1 nuclear plant.
The Fire and Disaster Management Agency said Sunday that 15 people were found to have been contaminated at a hospital located within 10 km from the No. 1 reactor. Edano said there was a possibility that nine people who fled on a bus had been exposed to radioactivity.
==Kyodo
..
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".Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in, broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, WOW, What a ride!"
Personal Responsibility..The one thing no one can take away from you
."The only tyrant I accept in this world is the still, small voice within me."
Thanks!!There are still questions but at least we know a little more.
"I think the most un-American thing you can say is, 'You can't say that.'” Garrison Keillor
"It's time to make your stand." - Mother Abigail
A primer for those who are not familiar with nuclear power in general may be helpful. The plants in question are "BWR" plants, or "Boiling Water Reactors." Fuel comprising a mixture that contains Uranium-235 and/or Plutonium-239 are placed into rods with a zirconium cladding. These are arranged inside a high-pressure container. Hydraulically-controlled rods that contain material that absorbs neutrons are placed in the core as well. The pressure vessel is filled with ordinary water.
Nuclear reactions rely on the neutrons that are emitted when an atom splits hitting another atom of fissile material (the Uranium-235) and causing it to split. In order to cause an atom to split the neutron has to have a certain energy. Most people think of fission as a literal "splitting" action (much like one splits a log); this is in fact not correct. While it is possible for a very fast neutron impact on a fissile atom to cause it to split it's inefficient and nearly all of those impacts will instead bounce off. The goal is to slow the neutrons into the thermal range where instead of bouncing off they are absorbed by the fissile material; it then becomes unstable at an atomic level and splits. That process is very efficient and is what is relied on for nuclear power generation. The water in the core of a BWR serves as that moderator, or neutron "slowing" mechanism.
A boiling-water reactor has, as the name implies, boiling water in the core itself. That means there's steam in the core. Steam, being water vapor, has much lower density than liquid water, and thus tends to slow the reaction down, since it moderates fewer of the neutrons. But this creates a potential problem when the reactor is shut down. Since there is no heat exchanger the actual core water that boils is used to drive the steam turbines and produce power. This steam is mildly radioactive, largely with radioactive isotopes of hydrogen (tritium) and nitrogen (N-16.) This is not normally a problem as the half-life decay time of the nitrogen is very low (seconds) so people can enter the turbine area a few minutes after the reactor is shut down to do work.
When a reactor is shut down in an emergency the steam outlet to the turbines is closed. This causes the pressure to rise rapidly and the steam to collapse back to liquid water in part of the reactor. That in turn causes a temporary power spike in the output of the reactor until the control rods are fully re-inserted, as the neutron moderation capacity goes up as the steam bubbles collapse.
Once the control rods are in power production does not cease immediately. Reactors produce power by atomic decay - it's just that the "decay" is forced by neutron absorption resulting in controlled fission. But when you shut a reactor off there are a lot of byproducts in the fuel that undergo decay for a significant period of time, and that decay also produces heat. As a result you have to provide cooling to the fuel for a significant period of time once the reactor is shut down. Once the fuel is cool enough to remove from the core it still has to sit for a long period of time before you can handle it outside of continual cooling; this is typically done by big "pools" of water into which the spent fuel is placed and allowed to dissipate the residual decay products for a period of time before being transported for reprocessing or disposal.
Unfortunately that residual capacity to develop heat, if not taken care of, can cause serious problems. The zirconium cladding can heat to the point that it cracks open and, in contact with water vapor, liberate hydrogen (the oxygen combines with the zirconium.) This leads to a build-up of hydrogen gas in the steam, but without oxygen nothing bad happens immediately. Cracked fuel rods also allow reaction products out into the coolant. In the worst case the cladding and fuel itself can ignite and burn.
For this reason it is absolutely necessary to make sure that the core remains submerged after the reactor shuts down until the reaction product decay drops to a low enough point to allow the fuel to be unloaded.
From what we know when the reactors "Scrammed" (shut down on an emergency basis) due to the original earthquake event grid power was immediately lost and the on-site diesel generators started. This provided the power necessary to keep the circulation going and remove the reactor heat. But an hour or so later the diesel generators were lost - possibly due to the Tsunami flooding them.
Now there's a problem, because without power you can't run the pumps. And as the water in the core absorbs the heat the pressure rises. Remember that the original design allows for a significant volume of steam in the reactor vessel, and that it is important that the fuel not become uncovered as it requires liquid cooling (the steam is insufficient.)
If you can't run pumps you've got serious trouble. Some plants have the ability to use some of the steam generated to run pumps on at least an emergency basis, thereby being "self-generating." I've been unable to determine if this is the case at these plants; it appears not, and they were reduced to battery power when the diesels failed. It also appears that their instrumentation was either damaged or destroyed, as nobody seemed to know for sure what the actual water level was in those reactors.
If the heat cannot be removed through an emergency heat exchanger your only option is to dissipate the energy by releasing steam. But doing so means the water level in the reactor falls; you then need power to be able to make up the water in the reactor vessel and the pumps have to be able to overcome the pressure in the system to feed the water in. That status of that capability has been unclear since the earthquake.
What we know at this point is that they have detected Cesium in the surrounding area. This is a solid indication that the fuel rod integrity has been compromised, as that's the only way reaction products (of which Cesium is one) can get into the coolant and then outside the plant. This, in turn, strongly implies that the core has become uncovered for at least some period of time, and that, in turn, implies that the operators and physicists at the plant either did not know the water level in the reactor, or they had to release pressure to prevent a loss of integrity in the reactor vessel even though the knew they could not make up the water loss via feed pumps.
The good news is that the explosion destroyed the concrete-wall building surrounding the containment which is said to be intact (high-strength steel) and then the reactor vessel is inside that. The bad news is that if hydrogen has been produced in meaningful quantity (and that's a fair bit of it folks) it is a near-certainty that serious fuel damage has occurred and the water in the plant has been contaminated with high-level reaction products.
Key now is getting sufficient cooling to the core to prevent the remaining water from being boiled off and the containment melted through. Temperatures that can be developed in the fuel, absent cooling, are more than sufficient to violate the containment and expose the fuel to atmospheric oxygen. That in turn will initiate oxidation ("fire", although the heat to activate it is coming from nuclear decay rather than the usual chemical processes) and those sorts of fires are very difficult if not impossible to extinguish until the entirety of the fuel available is burned up.
Latest reports are that they are now attempting to flood the containment building with borated seawater. This is a last-ditch attempt to get temperatures under control, and should work. Doing so economically destroys the plant, and it appears they were attempting to avoid that outcome up until this point.
I know this incident is going to cause every green and every red to come out and scream that we must stop all nuclear power now.
Sorry, nope.
There is risk in all human endeavors. This is no exception. Energy production comes with risk, and it cannot be avoided. Go live in Texas City if you wish; they refine a lot of petroleum there, and there are a lot of unexplained cancers - even though airborne levels of various products are well within "safe" limits.
Fermi I in Monroe was a Fast Breeder reactor that came close to a loss-of-control event. Had it occurred, it would have been catastrophic. While it was technically a power-producing plant it was low in output and considered a proof-of-design plant. We never built another one.
Liquid Salt Thorium Reactors are passively-safe. That is, their working fluid (which also happens to be the reactant mass) is maintained in the reactor by active cooling of a freeze plug. If power is lost then the plug melts and the coolant drains into chambers that are sufficiently distant from one another that criticality is lost at the same time. In addition this design has a negative temperature coefficient and thus cannot thermally run away, and neutron moderation necessary for criticality to be maintained is in the graphite moderators inside the reactor vessel. Since the coolant does not boil at working or emergency-shutdown temperatures and contains the fuel within it an emergency shutdown does not expose the reactor to the risks that are currently being experienced in Japan. Finally, the higher working temperatures of the primary fluid allow for much-higher efficiency combined-cycle turbines to be used as opposed to the Rankine-cycle turbines in current BWR and PWR designs. This latter design is not "Pie in the Sky"; we operated one of these reactors in the 1960s for four years at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory.
The reality of our modern life is that we must have energy production if we intend to have a vibrant economy. All forms of energy production come with risk, whether it's due to the risk of chemical exposure in various forms or radiation. When these systems operate normally they do not harm people, but industrial accidents happen, even without the forcing factor of Mother Nature coming into play.
We must accept these risks if we are to enjoy our modern way of life. Despite the ongoing challenges in Japan today, I would fully support a nuclear power plant being constructed 10 miles upwind of my home, just as I fully supported offshore drilling out my back window even after the BP well disaster. We have no right in this country to demand consumption of resources we are unwilling to develop ourselves, and for which we are unwilling to accept the risks.
I choose both the risks and the rewards, and strongly urge others to do so as well.
http://market-ticker.org/
What is the lake of fire? What is it's purpose? Is the lake of fire eternal hell? Is there any hope of escape for those cast into this lake?
http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html
* 1:28AM GMT Mar 13, 2011
* Hot
* Update
TEPCO says it has started releasing air from No.3 reactor at the Fukushima nuclear plant - Reuters
Story data:
* spotted by editor
* from www.reuters.com
So when's the Revolution? God or Money? Choose.
• 1 Sv = 100 rem
• 1 mSv = 100 mrem = 0.1 rem
• 1 μSv = 0.1 mrem
• 1 rem = 0.01 Sv = 10 mSv
• 1 mrem = 0.00001 Sv = 0.01 mSv = 10 μSv
840 kPa = 121.8317 PSI
Hope that helps.
This wasn't a go on you own evacuation it was done with bus, trains, ect conducted with the help of the army. It is already done. They started evacuations as soon as the nuclear emergency was declared, before the explosion. A reporter with wall street Journal was in the last group out with civil leaders, Everyone left is working the nuke disaster. She stated that the workers were wearing protective suits.
That's why I'm not buying there hasn't been a significant release of radiation.
I've been doing some digging...
The kPa thing is a Pascal and is way beyond my comprehension. Have fun reading the Wiki
But a pic helps:
psi is in red, kPa in black.
As for a sievert, it's a measure of biological effect of radiation exposure based on a complicated formula that takes into effect things like part of the body exposed, length of exposure, etc. See Wiki.
For quick reference:
* 1 Sv = 100 rem
* 1 mSv = 100 mrem = 0.1 rem
* 1 μSv = 0.1 mrem
* 1 rem = 0.01 Sv = 10 mSv
* 1 mrem = 0.00001 Sv = 0.01 mSv = 10 μSv
At one point, before the explosion, monitors at the gate of the plant showed that levels had exceeded 500 mciroSieverts. IIRC, that was when they were first venting Unit #1. According to the chart that means 50 mrems.
In another article I read, one worker inside the plant at Fukushima Daiini (the 2nd plant in question), got a dose of 106 mSieverts. According to the chart that means he got about 11 rems.
Just thought this info might be handy for future reference.
"I think the most un-American thing you can say is, 'You can't say that.'” Garrison Keillor
"It's time to make your stand." - Mother Abigail
Keep It Real...
http://online.unitconverterpro.com/u...quivalent.html
106 mSv = 10.6 rem
http://www.unitconversion.org/
840 kilopascal = 121.831699693 psi
Zulu Cowboy
The best place to be during a nuclear explosion, is anywhere you can say..."What the hell was that??"
MOΛΩN ΛABÉ
I never thought I'd be saying this to Mickey Mouse but... I guess GMTA !
"I think the most un-American thing you can say is, 'You can't say that.'” Garrison Keillor
"It's time to make your stand." - Mother Abigail
Seen elsewhere just now:
@BreakingNews Breaking News
Radiation at Fukushima No. 1 plant has surpassed legal limit, TEPCON, via Kyodo
So when's the Revolution? God or Money? Choose.
I'll bite the cheese - what is GMTA????
"BreakingNews
1. Radiation at Fukushima No. 1 plant has surpassed legal limit, TEPCON, via Kyodo less than 10 seconds ago via breakingnews.com"
"I think the most un-American thing you can say is, 'You can't say that.'” Garrison Keillor
"It's time to make your stand." - Mother Abigail
Country exile in the city
Are they saying "legal" limit?
I would think they'd mean "safe" limit---why are they calling it "legal" limit, I wonder?
The only "change" I CAN believe in: I Corinthians 15: 51-52!
WAKE ME WHEN IT'S OVER....
Great Minds Think Alike... as we both answered the same question with the same chart.
"I think the most un-American thing you can say is, 'You can't say that.'” Garrison Keillor
"It's time to make your stand." - Mother Abigail
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