[ADMIN] Why the staff take action...

[Dennis Olson]

Folks, there seems to be a rising tide of resentment over Admin actions of late. I feel it necessary to once again lay it out for everyone. So here goes…

When Administrative action is taken against a member, it is only after long discussion in the Lounge (unless it’s an extreme case of trolling, in which case any staff member is able to act independently). We do NOT engage in capricious actions for sport, self-gratification, or amusement. We are ALL volunteers. We moderate this forum because we love it. We want to provide a place where folks can discuss virtually any topic they please, without fear of blatant flaming or profanity.

We expect and require each member to self-police, and behave as adults. As long as that’s happening, we have exactly ZERO interest in participating in any way (except as fellow Members). Recently, we had to revoke the membership of a very long-standing member. I was personally very conflicted in this, because I know him, and valued his views on many different topics. However, he failed to resolve his “inner demons”, and resumed his old ways of thread hijacking. Ultimately, it was the consensus of the staff that he had become a troll, and it was time for him to move on.

When the discussion thread was posted in TIO, we had some folks who attacked our decision on the basis of “censorship” and conspiracy. I find these accusations both amusing and intolerable. We take action that we feel is best for the community, and only when necessary. I think most of you here know and understand that. For those of you who do not, or CAN not accept that, I urge you to leave the forum. We will not, as volunteers, allow ongoing accusations like this to continue unanswered. You are always free to create your own forum, where you can design your own system of posting guidelines.

We will not allow you to question everything we do, as if we’re plotting and scheming against you. Discussion of the pros and cons of a specific Administrative action is fine; accusing us of some dark motive is NOT. Those of you doing so know who you are. I offer this to you as a friendly (or not-so-friendly if need be) warning: keep it calm, keep it rational, and don’t accuse us of things we’re not guilty of. That WILL buy you a ticket out of here, and in a big hurry.

I strongly suggest those of you to whom this applies re-evaluate your attitude on the forum. The membership you save may be your own.

Thanks for listening…

[OddOne]

To add to this...

TB is a moderated message board. By definition, there are specific rules and/or principles that are enforced with varying degrees of rigidity. As we're all human there will occasionally be variations in how two mods approach the same violation of rules/principles. This does not mean that mod X has a bias that mod Y doesn't, it just means that HUMAN mod X sees a slightly different problem than HUMAN mod Y does, and correspondingly reacted differently.

Several members seem to have persecution complexes, crying foul when they're looked at funny. This is tiresome and a waste of their energy. Contrary to the opinions of the few with the aforementioned complexes, we're not out to persecute anybody - laying smackdown when called for, yes, but there's no grand conspiracy to promote agenda A or the superiority of member B or what have you. Of course they'll argue this point but that doesn't make their particular worldview correct.

In fact, as moderated boards go, TB is among the most lightly moderated. Members have pitched total conniption fits here and didn't get more than a PM asking them to tone it down, where on other boards they'd simply be banned outright and that would be that.

oO

[Warren Bone]

Hi there mods and admins (you too Denny.)

First, thanks for doing the good job of keeping this place somewhat sane and enjoyable.

To the members: we have to remember that we are not aware of all the talk behind-the-scenes when another member is warned or called on the carpet for some issue. Usually all we see is a post that someone has been banned.

So just remember that we are like citizens who read in the paper of a guilty verdict handed down by a jury; we were not on the jury, nor did we attend the trial -- so, we don't know all the facts.

However, it IS fun to find a conspiracy behind every corner; gives us something to do, something to get involved in.

Thanks again to the mods, and admins.

warren.

[Carlos]

Where's Rod Serling when you need him?

[helen]

Dennis,

I never said conspiracy or censorship ... I merely grieve banning as a cyber death and wish you didn't do it.

We have ignore buttons. We can scroll past what we haven't got on ignore.

We have eyelids ... well, most of us do ... and we can close them on what we haven't scrolled past.

Banning is such a final thing. Like death.

[Thomas Paine]

Ooooh boooyyy what did I miss this time?

[timbo]

A couple of things directed towards helen mainly but the rest of you can listen in.

First,mods dont have a ignore button. And we get all the complaints through email or PMs that direct us to specific problems.
And yeah some are just to get nit-picky about,but mainly they are legitimate concerns that if something isnt done,it goes way out of hand.

And yes banning is the ultimate punishment here in cyber land.

But how many times do we,the mods have to get the complaints,then try to get the offender to shape up?

And how many complaints do we have to have?

These are not rhetorical questions helen......how many?

And in the case of the last one,we gave the second worse punishment to the person(Time Out) and that person came back and after a very short time,proceeded to do what was done before.

Now what? Start the whole process over?
Think about the literally thousands of members that have come and gone from TB here.......a lot. Now how many were banned? Very few. And yeah we remember them well.......why is that timbo? Because they brought attention to themselves over and over and over with their actions.

They stood out because they got to be a pain in the nether regions to many here.
So until we can come up with the ultimate banning without actually banning,its going to happen.
Not often,but necessary.

[jlee]

I manage a small public library branch. The most we'll give is 3 warnings. And for some offenses, the first time will get you thrown out.

But let me repeat: the most we give is 3 warnings.

Unfortunately (most staff feel), we are not allowed to exclude people for more than one day. But if you are a repeat offender, the first offense will get you thrown out for the day.

And sometimes branch staff get together with administrators and security, and go to court, and someone is banned permanently.


It's ultimately the person's own choice: whether or not to follow the rules, whether or not to take the warnings seriously.

[eaglefeather]

and after they have had a Time-Out....you might consider sentencing them to 1 week over at GodLikeProductions ....where absolute, total freedom of speech is practiced......along with anarchy, and insults, vulgarity...and just good old fashioned uncouth behaviour.

You MODS do a "great" job of managing this community for the good of all. In my opinion, those folks that tend to go off the deep end here..... are spending a little too much time at the keyboard and need someone to nudge some perspective back into their life. If they don't get the point after a Time-Out....

Off with their heads !

[Was Cath]

Having been a longtime; if infrequently posting; member of this cyber-community, I applaud the moderator's willingness to take unpopular stands for the good of the community. I have been around long enough to watch how psychotic-trolls can tear apart the community and the need for banning. Kind of like removing a cancer that is eating at the health of the community.

I also find it interesting that everyone I have ever placed on "ignore" have eventually been banned

Keep up the good work, mods!

[Sharon]

This is the ONLY board I post on, and rarely even post anything on my yahoo groups, one one maybe once in a while, but the others, rarely.

I feel safe here, and it is because of the Mods! I will visit some of the other boards, but quickly leave because of what is allowed on them.

I like it here, thanks Mods!

[susie0884]

Perhaps before banning ...

and after they have had a Time-Out....you might consider sentencing them to 1 week over at GodLikeProductions ....where absolute, total freedom of speech is practiced......along with anarchy, and insults, vulgarity...and just good old fashioned uncouth behaviour.

Uhh, actually, I think that's what GLP is! All the folks that got banned from TB at one point or another

[GILTRIC]

Key word in moderator is moderate....not neocon otherwise you would be called neoconerators.


Sometimes it seems that if a poster doesn't share the same belief as a mod it leaves them open for "punishment"..........things were alot different when Dennis was on the road...and thats JMHO some of you might not share it.


It also seems like all the "smoking gun" WMD threads are kept on the main page....but the later retractions of those "smoking gun" finds are sent to UNEX/ALT.................again....JMHO....maybe I'm wrong.



Some wounds take longer to heal then others.

[eaglefeather]

what are the primary reasons folks come to a Board such as this ? Is it to "cut and paste" relevant articles on timely topics that affect us .... is it to "share" life's little victories and/ or defeats with our fellow man (without having to share too much of ourselves) .... is it to seek comfort from others when a tragedy has descended upon us via prayer or a kind word of encouragement....is it to engage others in some lively philosophical debate, be it religion, philosophy or politics....or is it to act out some personal issues in one's life which might be devoid of some real-world platform which provides some sense of self-worth ? I suspect that for the most part we all stop by here for all of the above reasons from time to time.

We all are compelled to have the "last say" on some of the topics we read here at TB2K.....but most, I suspect, stop themselves before the urge to reply to someone in harsh tones overcomes their better judgement. What does it matter...really ? How many here, have in a fit of rage coined the perfect response to that "idiot" that just made a good, strong, antagonistic counterpoint to your point .... and upon finishing it...pressed the BACK button instead of SUBMIT REPLY ... and felt the better for it.

Most of the time here, I suspect what we have is a "failure to communicate" effectively which leads to personal attacks. I cite an example which Giltric just posted;

Sometimes it seems that if a poster doesn't share the same belief as a mod it leaves them open for "punishment"..........things were alot different when Dennis was on the road...and thats JMHO some of you might not share it.

Now, not knowing much about Giltric and which side of the fence he tends to be most of the time ..... I might think that what he is saying here is that when Dennis is not around the MODS more or less run roughshod over those they don't agree with....... or if I read a wee bit more into it, I might think that he is saying just the opposite. I frankly don't know what the point here really is..... other than he was compelled to communicate "something" to Dennis and/or the MODS... I dunno.

Either way .... does it really matter ? Should I attack Giltric for his criticism of the MODS .. or should I just shut up and go to bed ?

G'nite all.....

[Rusty Shackelford]

Because your jobs as administration is hard...and this keeps us from becoming the cesspool that Craplike Productions is...It's not that hard to follow the rules.Just go read some of the threads over there and you will enjoy this forum much more!And all the hard work the administration goes though to keep it that way.

[AusieGrandad]

I am not sure what kind of exciting discussions I am missing.

I just wish to say that I appreciate the efforts of the Mods to maintin an an environment where people can discuss with mutual respect.

TB2K could not function without Mods. We should look after them as well as we can and maintian the same mutual respect towards them. We all like to think we are tough, until someone strikes a soft place, then we crack up and we are not sure why.

[nanna]

Dennis (and all y'all),

The comments I make respect to bannings are not so much judgement on the particular circumstances as commentary on the context in general. The bottom line is, to me, Dennis, is that this is *your* house, you set the rules. Period. End of story. Ban who you will, that is your perogative. But, I'll still shoot my mouth off That's my perogative.

I see TB as a living entity, and what happens here, to my eye, is an image of what is going on in society, in general, and worthy of comment. Even though it is a "gated community", who is and who isn't a welcome guest to an extent defines the interplay of the society.

This is the context, please, to consider my remarks.

I think it is scary that a volume of PMs or a "consensus" of opinion, of an insulted nature, become a consideration in the "worthyness" of a poster, in the most recent case, MS, but if you will recall, I have made similar comments respect to Curious, Patrick and Storm.

If we continue to regress to the mean, as it were, to be "acceptable" to the masses (actively verbal or otherwise), it seems to me that we lose the edge that separates us from what many fondly call the "sheeple".

There are some who would seek to *define* this board respect to the opinions and commentary which are expressed, I think. The nature of that influence, IMO, should reside (if it resides anywhere as opposed to being a self-generating random wonderfulness) with Dennis, and not any particular lobbying consituancy.

Well, thanks for participating in my moment of reflective maudlin thought, all.

Love,


nanna

[helen]

timbo ...

Poor thing! I didn't know you don't have an ignore button. And I guess they sew your eyelids open when you become a mod.

I don't recall PMing a mod to take care of a problem poster. I figure I can handle it or not. Somebody complained about <I>moi</I> once upon a time, and I thought it grossly unfair to find Dennis waiting for me in my PM box. But he was nice about it. As nice as "cut it out right now or else ..." can be. If it's never happened to you, maybe you don't know it's galling to be muzzled.

Thank you for explaining it timbo. You know I love you. And Lars. And Dennis. And Yammy. And CSue. And Brooks. And ...

[Caplock50]

Dennis and all: simply put, I an't got no complaints. I'm "Home, home on the range". Thanks for all y'all do to keep this place up to snuff.

All I ask is that if some future judgement should go against me, that I be given a chance to defend myself before any sentencing is carried out.

[inskanoot]

who was banned?

[Amazed]

inskanoot - yes.

If you really want to punish someone, make THEM be a moderator.

[Satanta]

Inskanoot-go look in TIO gfor Dennis' [[Admin]] announcement.

Caplock-trust me after many warnings and PM's you'll know it's coming. Not like it's a surprise to the ones that get sent packing and truthfully-yer not even on the radar screens at this time.

helen- you have the option of 'ignore' or closing your eyes. We do not. It's our job NOT to just close our eyes. If you don't understand that and this being a moderated board I can't help you.

[SouthernMagnolia]

The excellent moderation at TB is one of the reasons that I was so eager to join!

SoMag

[Tadpole]

I greatly appreciate the way this board is moderated.

It is one of a small handful of boards that I read because I know there will be no ripping people apart and nothing really vulgar. At least, not for long.

It's a safe, sane place to find almost everything I need to know about what's going on in the world.

Thanks, mods, for taking a licking and keeping on ticking!

Edited to add... well, maybe not always sane!